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Ladder Balanced Hackmons

I was playing around on the low-mid ladder on an alt the past few days, and I added something very odd to my joke team to beat poison healers. It started off as a set where I used a ferrothorn with switcheroo to give a pecha berry to PH users to both deactivate their orb and to remove it, but that was never useful otherwise. I solved this by using a sticky barb instead, as stupid as it sounds, since it could do 2 other things besides negate poison heal recovery. The first was beating an enemy set-up sweeper by giving it to them while they set up, so they would take continual damage. What makes that effective over a burn in many cases is mainly that it can be used on the common primal groudon, and that it can even be given to an opponent's pokemon that already has a status. The second was stopping shedinja, since the sticky barb has 2 ways to beat an endeavor shed. The way I usually did so was by using switcheroo to hand it over, as the barb wouldn't be cured by lum berry. The second way, which I plan on testing on a different team as some point is, when shed has used up its lum berry or its item has been knocked off, I switch into an endeavor, which triggers the sticky barb to pass over onto shed, causing it to die. Am I the only one who thinks this idea might be somewhat useful at any time?
 
MBM99 said:
I was playing around on the low-mid ladder on an alt the past few days, and I added something very odd to my joke team to beat poison healers. It started off as a set where I used a ferrothorn with switcheroo to give a pecha berry to PH users to both deactivate their orb and to remove it, but that was never useful otherwise. I solved this by using a sticky barb instead, as stupid as it sounds, since it could do 2 other things besides negate poison heal recovery. The first was beating an enemy set-up sweeper by giving it to them while they set up, so they would take continual damage. What makes that effective over a burn in many cases is mainly that it can be used on the common primal groudon, and that it can even be given to an opponent's pokemon that already has a status. The second was stopping shedinja, since the sticky barb has 2 ways to beat an endeavor shed. The way I usually did so was by using switcheroo to hand it over, as the barb wouldn't be cured by lum berry. The second way, which I plan on testing on a different team as some point is, when shed has used up its lum berry or its item has been knocked off, I switch into an endeavor, which triggers the sticky barb to pass over onto shed, causing it to die. Am I the only one who thinks this idea might be somewhat useful at any time?
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no, in fact, we have allready (somewhat) used this strategy with a famous set prior to ORAS.prank venusaur and black sludge. all the benifits of sticky barb, but healing your poke, rather then harming.
 
Worth noting that if the enemy runs Knock Off on something, you can accidentally steal the Sticky Barb back with a contact move.

CactusCacti Nifty analysis, I wouldn't mind contributing since I have a huge, unfinished sort of usability tier list for all the abilities in the game, pre-ORAS/pre-Evasion ban/pre-510, with a bit written for each. Lemme give you three examples from it.

Compound Eyes - Have some really awesome moves you want to use that have poor accuracy and you don't want to set-up Coil or the like? This is the ability you're looking for! Compound Eyes is a 30% accuracy boost, which brings anything at a theoretical 77% to 100% chance to hit. And moves that are lower aren't much worse off. Great for attacks such as Blizzard, Thunder, Stone Edge, Focus Blast, and so forth.

At a glance, No Guard seems superior since it guarantees a hit no matter what. However, if you're not trying to hit with super inaccurate moves, like Zap Cannon, and you're not running it to counter evasion boosts (which are generally stopped by Unaware and counter-boosting strategies anyway), then Compound Eyes is the superior choice since No Guard gives your opponent 100% accuracy too.


Flower Veil - A nifty ability with sadly limited usefulness. It blocks all non-volatile status effects, like sleep, and also prevents all stat drops too! The catch? Only affects Grass-types. If it wasn't for that little detail then it'd more than outclass Vital Spirit and Insomnia. (I suddenly want to try Flower Veil Support or Hybrid Sceptile-M).


Hustle - A hefty 50% boost to physical attacks? Heck yes! The drawback? -20% accuracy. Other than auto-hitting moves, this means a Hustle user has no more than 80% accuracy without any sort of boost. This can and will bite you in the butt sooner or later if you don't do something about it. Luckily, the Wide Lens helps negate the problem, though requires your item slot. Coil is a pretty good boosting move as is, but it plays very well with Hustle as a single boost will rid you of most of your accuracy issues. You could perhaps run Foresight and Lock-on as well, but these are bad for the same reasons that they're always bad.


Liquid Ooze - Oblivion Wing is fairly common and Leech Seed isn't too far behind. Boosted Oblivion Wing users will lose a significant chunk of their HP, possibly KOing them if they're injured, while Leech Seed will slowly whittle away whatever your opponent has out (and can potentially KO Sheddy). Can be used for great anti-Imposter shenanigans and/or just to piss off all the Oblivion Wing abusers running around.

...just be sure to pack some recovery.

Also, two important things you missed...

Wonder Skin dodges moves that Magic Bounce can't, such as Trick and Skill Swap.

Shield Dust stops all secondary effects, including the flinch from Fake Out. It's also not a bad idea to have a Shield Dust user if you have a Serene Grace user.
 
Lol if I am remembering correctly, I think I remember when Flower Veil worked in BH even after the mon died for the entire team... fun times, made many a person rage by doing the mega evo trick and then boom instant immunity to sleep for the rest of the game for every mon - even if the original flower veil mon died. Free to spam spore on every person ever bounce or not!

Also I used a shield dust dialga when cube was at its peak to get dem first turn ohkos, along with making it a switch in on my status spreader with sacred and nuzzle. Also a fun rage-inducing pastime.
 
Just one Question, Where in the world is this Balanced? The only things you see are Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega and Refrigerate Mewtwo-Mega-X oh and sometimes you see a Imposter chansey and a Sturdy Shedinja xD lol
 
Kotaro Fuma said:
Just one Question, Where in the world is this Balanced?
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In the title.

In all seriousness, the reason it's called Balanced is that truly overpowering ability/pokemon combinations would be everywhere if not for the bans. Classic Hackmons is balanced in its own right, but this is more of a "healthier" perspective for those who don't like seeing WG/Power/Parental Bond everywhere. At least, this is my opinion on the subject.
 
Kotaro Fuma said:
Just one Question, Where in the world is this Balanced? The only things you see are Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega and Refrigerate Mewtwo-Mega-X oh and sometimes you see a Imposter chansey and a Sturdy Shedinja xD lol
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There's a suspect test/vote on the three -ate abilities coming whenever Verbatim makes the thread for it.
 
I can't imagine a metagame without the -ates. I think we take it for granted now that it's been around for so long, but it's really the biggest thing that keeps HO in check besides chansey. I think the metagame needs it for revenge killing.
What the metagame doesn't "need" perse is mRay Aerialate Boomburst. For me, that's the only thing that's broken here. Even banning stab -ates would get rid of too much imo, including KyuB (not that big a threat anymore) and KyuW (fun but too slow) not to mention Diancie (which I've never struggled against cause I always have a steel mon).

I don't get what's so bad about complex bans. I think they allow us to isolate what's truly broken without restricting anything that we don't want to restrict.
 
Kotaro Fuma said:
Just one Question, Where in the world is this Balanced? The only things you see are Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega and Refrigerate Mewtwo-Mega-X oh and sometimes you see a Imposter chansey and a Sturdy Shedinja xD lol
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Pikachuun said:
In the title.

In all seriousness, the reason it's called Balanced is that truly overpowering ability/pokemon combinations would be everywhere if not for the bans. Classic Hackmons is balanced in its own right, but this is more of a "healthier" perspective for those who don't like seeing WG/Power/Parental Bond everywhere. At least, this is my opinion on the subject.
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no offense you two, but do you people even know what balance means?

definition of balance: a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.

BH's namesake was nothing more then a random name chosen to differentiate it from CH

however, taking that out of consideration...
so...what is your point kotaro fuma? "where in the world is this balanced?" well...the pokemon that wall/check/revenge kill these threats obviously. just because something is "overused" in a meta, doesn't mean that it isn't balanced. stop acting like "OH SOMETHINGS POWERFUL AND USED A LOT IT MUST BE DESTROYING THE METAGAME LOLOLOLOLOL SO UNBALANCED" because although it's very good, the meta HAS formed around mega rayquaza(albeit not in the BEST way). and thus, puts it in a state of "balance" or at least the closest it can get to it. since "balance" is impossible in a metagame with over 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 possible outcomes, you cant truly balance it without years and years of effort.
 
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And remember, this is a vastly different meta than anything like OU. Balance does not have one single definition, rather it is defined by the circumstances. In OU, Sturdy Sedinja would be broken. But, with any pokemon able to run Mold Breaker pursuit, infestation, Will-O-Wisp, ect. It becomes just a threat. Chansy and Shed are actually the only things that are keeping the meta from becoming: Boost, sweep, repeat. Those two add more depth to the meta, allowing much more viable playstyles and pokemon.

I could go on and on about this, but I think I've proven my point.
 
In other news, BH Kektus Challenge is now over, (atleast contest wise) and was it a surprise that our winner is Flint?
with 81 pts it probably wasnt.

So congratsulations Flint!
 
I think soundproof mega slowbro would be good.

You could run a rocks set:
Mega Slowbro Leftovers
Defensive or special defencive, it really doesn't matter

Nuzzle
Scald
Recover
Stealth Rocks
 
ThePokester v2 said:
I think soundproof mega slowbro would be good.

You could run a rocks set:
Mega Slowbro Leftovers
Defensive or special defencive, it really doesn't matter

Nuzzle
Scald
Recover
Stealth Rocks
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Yeah, Soundproof Mega Slowbro is pretty good. It dies to the increasingly common Techno Blast, though.

If I were running it, I would probably go with Perish Song / Thousand Waves / Recover / filler support move.
 
Lcass4919 said:
no offense you two, but do you people even know what balance means?

definition of balance: a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.

BH's namesake was nothing more then a random name chosen to differentiate it from CH

however, taking that out of consideration...
so...what is your point kotaro fuma? "where in the world is this balanced?" well...the pokemon that wall/check/revenge kill these threats obviously. just because something is "overused" in a meta, doesn't mean that it isn't balanced. stop acting like "OH SOMETHINGS POWERFUL AND USED A LOT IT MUST BE DESTROYING THE METAGAME LOLOLOLOLOL SO UNBALANCED" because although it's very good, the meta HAS formed around mega rayquaza(albeit not in the BEST way). and thus, puts it in a state of "balance" or at least the closest it can get to it. since "balance" is impossible in a metagame with over 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 possible outcomes, you cant truly balance it without years and years of effort.
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*Shut Down* *KotaroFuma.exe stopped working*
 
Uselesscrab said:
It dies to the increasingly common Techno Blast, though.
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Why is Techno Blast used over Judgment? Both have the same base power (once the plate boost is taken into account) and Techno Blast has less PP. As for imposters with plates, are imposters with the correct plate (or any plate apart from Spooky) really common enough to justify it?
 
Judicator said:
Why is Techno Blast used over Judgment? Both have the same base power (once the plate boost is taken into account) and Techno Blast has less PP. As for imposters with plates, are imposters with the correct plate (or any plate apart from Spooky) really common enough to justify it?
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Because Techno Blast is being used as an -ate normal type move, and not being used with any Drive whatsoever, in order to bypass Soundproofers which take nothing from Boomburst. As an -ate move, judgment is a lot weaker in comparison.
 
Judicator said:
Why is Techno Blast used over Judgment? Both have the same base power (once the plate boost is taken into account) and Techno Blast has less PP. As for imposters with plates, are imposters with the correct plate (or any plate apart from Spooky) really common enough to justify it?
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on top of what Klang says for replacing boomburst, for replacing judgement, your ilate counter might not appriciate a ghost type judgement from the rare spooky plate blissey(chansey imo is better for suprise factor) and although is a tiny nitpick that rarely happens, can easily decide a game whereas it can be easily mitigated by running douse/burn/shock drive techno blast to hit Rock/steel/water types respectively. on top of that, for offensive pokemon, 8 less pp hardly matters for a coverage move you wont use barring that ONE instance it is needed. main point: if you need fire/water/electric coverage, use drives, if not, judgement.

plus it sounds cooler. id rather blast someone with techno, then judge them imo.
 
Since you guys are talking about Techno Blast, I was thinking about replacing Boomburst for Tecnho Blast in my Mega Diancie with pixilate is it worth?
 
Yes. Doesn't get walled by Soundproof and the BP drop is definitely worth it imo

In other news, I've been trying weird regen cores to deal with ates. Like really weird. Like Mega Steelix and Zekrom weird. But hey, it works. Might want to try Skarm too but idk
 
AWailOfATail said:
Yes. Doesn't get walled by Soundproof and the BP drop is definitely worth it imo

In other news, I've been trying weird regen cores to deal with ates. Like really weird. Like Mega Steelix and Zekrom weird. But hey, it works. Might want to try Skarm too but idk
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The Best Counter I found to the "-ate" abilities so far was another "-ate" in form of Diancie-Mega, since can wall aerilate and Refrigirate of Kyurem-Black and Rayquaza-Mega Respective while landing Super Effective Pixilate moves on them
 
Kotaro Fuma said:
The Best Counter I found to the "-ate" abilities so far was another "-ate" in form of Diancie-Mega, since can wall aerilate and Refrigirate of Kyurem-Black and Rayquaza-Mega Respective while landing Super Effective Pixilate moves on them
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That's not a counter, by definition. It can't switch into either of them. It's better to go to a resist and then safe switch to Mega Diancie.
 
For a long time, i've thought of using Regenvest Regirock/Diancie, but didn't because I really didn't think it would do good. E4 Flint's post really got me thinking, so I made a balanced team while following the rules of my Paranoid Stall Stucture! The strategy honestly performs very well in ORAS at the moment:

regirock.gif

Regirock @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 236 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: null Spe
- Diamond Storm
- Circle Throw
- U-turn
- Metal Burst

audino-mega.gif

Audino-Mega @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Topsy-Turvy
- Soft-Boiled
- Parting Shot
- Stealth Rock

kyogre-primal.gif

Kyogre-Primal @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Spore
- Water Spout
- Moonblast

aegislash.gif

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: null Atk / null Spe
- Roost
- Defog
- Topsy-Turvy
- Baton Pass

chansey.gif

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Fake Out
- Skill Swap
- Whirlwind
- Soft-Boiled

rayquaza-mega.gif

Rayquaza-Mega @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 136 Atk / 120 SpA / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Boomburst
- ExtremeSpeed
- Fake Out
- Magma Storm

Using this team is a lot more simple than many of my other teams, but not necessarily better overall. Teams are now extremely exploitable. For example, it's rather easy to defeat teams without a Magic Bounce Pokemon or Imposter, and those are getting quite common as of late, so it's a huge boon for balanced teams. Rayquaza is really useful as ever, as it helps defeat Shedinja, Soundproof Registeel, Mega Aggron, etc. Meanwhile, Regirock hard-counters most Rayquaza sets (including my own) with incredible ease. I'm also a huge fan of Mega Audino in balanced teams, as it's literally the best counter to Mega Gengar we have for non-stall teams. Primal Kyogre sweeps, breaks walls, counters Imposter, and helps serve as a check against Kyurem-W. The invested speed allows Primal Kyogre to outpace Mewtwo-Y at +1 Spe. I figured that I needed a Ghost-type to reliably switch-in against Shedinja, so I added a Magic Bounce Aegislash to take on various setup-sweepers and support in general. Of course, I added an Imposter to further bolster this team's defense against offensive teams (the scouting is also mandatory for this team to work.)

So give it a try! I don't think Shedinja is as mandatory as people think for more balanced/offensive-based teams, as it's really getting more and more exploitable!
 
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