Ladder Balanced Hackmons

sin(pi)

lucky n bad
These are a few sets I've had good experience with:-

Scizor-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Gear Grind
- Megahorn
- Waterfall

Primordial Sea removes Mega-Scizor's only weakness and Shift Gear helps him to start sweeping.

Metagross-Mega @ Assault Vest
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 8 HP / 148 Atk / 100 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Superpower
- Psycho Boost
- Leaf Storm

Fairly self-explanatory. Contrary makes Mega-Metagross knock out and set up at the same time. I tend to see people run Contrary Mega-Sceptile but I've had better luck with this.

Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Inferno
- Hurricane
- Dynamic Punch
- Zap Cannon

My usual lead, Deoxy-S will outspeed everything. Zap Cannon lets fast threats get slowed with PRZ, while Inferno can stop a set-up and cripple physical attackers with BRN.
For Scizor - Crabhammer is better than Waterfall, the increase in power is significant.
Mmeta has 105 base SpA, and Grass is an awful offensive typing. Stick to MMX/MBlaze/MScept][what else do people use for Contrary?].

All of these mons are also incredibly weak to Imposter Chansey:
-Scizor usually runs Flash Fire with Shift Gear + Roost + Gear Grind + Sacred Fire iirc, to beat imposters.
-Chansey comes in on a slow switch, and proceeds to beat you with V-Create, then probably sweep your team.
-Deo-S loses to lead imposter if it loses the speed tie.
 

Laxpras

One small yeet for man, one giant yeet for mankind
Weather in Gen 6

I'd like to start a discussion of weather in Gen 6 BH. It is pretty much completely forgotten. No, it is not a top tier strategy in the meta, but it is definitely viable and it should get more use then it does. I happened to get a random match with HeadsILoseTailsYouWin and it turned into a weather war. So please watch this replay before continuing to read: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-361564609
Now I'm going to get into specific weather ideas:

Sun:
Sun can be used effectively for offensive teams due to its boosting of fire-type attacks as well as the ability Chlorophyll.

Main threat:


Reshiram @ Choice Specs
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Eruption
- Draco Meteor / Spaciel Rend
- Secret Sword / Diamond Storm
- Volt Switch / Fusion Flare


With Chlorophyll in the sun, this thing is absolutely deadly. Eruption has essentially no switchin, barring immunities, and it can effectively run strong coverage with choice specs.
Some calcs:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Audino in Sun: 412-486 (100.4 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Giratina in Sun: 234-276 (46.5 - 54.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 492-582 (97.8 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Pros of Sun:
  • Teams don't build with it in mind
  • Chlorophyll users can be deadly
  • Boosts other important attacks such as V-Create and Magma Storm
Cons of Sun
  • Primal weathers are rare, but can invalidate sun abusers
  • Have to dedicate a team member as a setter
  • Chlorophyll users that can handle most of the meta's checks are very difficult to imposter-proof
  • Without Diamond Storm, can be straight walled by Ho-Oh

Rain:
Rain is similar to sun in BH as it is more offensive, but it has some differences.

Main threats:



Palkia @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Spout
- Draco Meteor
- Secret Sword / Steam Eruption
- Seed Flare / Volt Switch



Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Oblivion Wing / Steam Eruption
- Volt Switch / Seed Flare

These swift swimmers serve very similar roles as Reshiram, so I'm not going to post calcs as they are essentially the same.

Pros:
  • Doesn't have to worry as much about water immunity
  • Same as sun
Cons:
  • Not as good for boosting moves like V-Create/Magma storm
  • Same as sun

Sand:
Sand is completely different from sun/rain as it should be played more defensively. It is great for building more defensive teams. I am less experienced with building defense (And obviously weather in BH) so maybe HeadsILoseTailsYouWin can help out here

Main threats:


Regirock @ Safety Goggles / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Unaware / Mold Breaker / Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Slack Off / Knock Off / Gastro Acid
- Metal Burst / Stealth Rock / Spore
- Parting Shot / Defog




Tyranitar @ Toxic Orb / Safety Goggles
Ability: Poison Heal / Regenerator / Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp / Stealth Rock
- Slack Off / King's Shield


Some calcs:
252 SpA Spooky Plate Mega Mewtwo Y Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regirock in Sand: 57-68 (15.6 - 18.6%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Mega Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regirock in Sand: 100-118 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Pros:
  • Great for all around defensive teams, boosts rock type SpD by 1.5
  • Progressively hurts opponents
  • Takes down non-Safety Goggles Shedinja
Cons:
  • Requires a setter
  • Even max SpD Regirock can't handle Diancie
  • Very passive teams can struggle in BH
Conclusion
I hope to spur a conversation on weather. There is surely a lot to be discovered. I encourage people to theory, try it out, and discuss what the find challenging and effective, both strategically and set wise. Like I said, weather isn't the best threat in BH, but it is something that can be viable and win effectively. The biggest problem with weather is having a designated setter taking up a slot can leave your team with a hole. The advantage is that primal weathers are not common, and people won't prepare for weather. What does everyone think?
 
Weather in Gen 6

I'd like to start a discussion of weather in Gen 6 BH. It is pretty much completely forgotten. No, it is not a top tier strategy in the meta, but it is definitely viable and it should get more use then it does. I happened to get a random match with HeadsILoseTailsYouWin and it turned into a weather war. So please watch this replay before continuing to read: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/balancedhackmons-361564609
Now I'm going to get into specific weather ideas:

Sun:
Sun can be used effectively for offensive teams due to its boosting of fire-type attacks as well as the ability Chlorophyll.

Main threat:


Reshiram @ Choice Specs
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Eruption
- Draco Meteor / Spaciel Rend
- Secret Sword / Diamond Storm
- Volt Switch / Fusion Flare


With Chlorophyll in the sun, this thing is absolutely deadly. Eruption has essentially no switchin, barring immunities, and it can effectively run strong coverage with choice specs.
Some calcs:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Audino in Sun: 412-486 (100.4 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Eruption (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Giratina in Sun: 234-276 (46.5 - 54.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 492-582 (97.8 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Pros of Sun:
  • Teams don't build with it in mind
  • Chlorophyll users can be deadly
  • Boosts other important attacks such as V-Create and Magma Storm
Cons of Sun
  • Primal weathers are rare, but can invalidate sun abusers
  • Have to dedicate a team member as a setter
  • Chlorophyll users that can handle most of the meta's checks are very difficult to imposter-proof
  • Without Diamond Storm, can be straight walled by Ho-Oh

Rain:
Rain is similar to sun in BH as it is more offensive, but it has some differences.

Main threats:



Palkia @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Spout
- Draco Meteor
- Secret Sword / Steam Eruption
- Seed Flare / Volt Switch



Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Oblivion Wing / Steam Eruption
- Volt Switch / Seed Flare

These swift swimmers serve very similar roles as Reshiram, so I'm not going to post calcs as they are essentially the same.

Pros:
  • Doesn't have to worry as much about water immunity
  • Same as sun
Cons:
  • Not as good for boosting moves like V-Create/Magma storm
  • Same as sun

Sand:
Sand is completely different from sun/rain as it should be played more defensively. It is great for building more defensive teams. I am less experienced with building defense (And obviously weather in BH) so maybe HeadsILoseTailsYouWin can help out here

Main threats:


Regirock @ Safety Goggles / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Unaware / Mold Breaker / Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Slack Off / Knock Off / Gastro Acid
- Metal Burst / Stealth Rock / Spore
- Parting Shot / Defog




Tyranitar @ Toxic Orb / Safety Goggles
Ability: Poison Heal / Regenerator / Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Knock Off
- Will-O-Wisp / Stealth Rock
- Slack Off / King's Shield


Some calcs:
252 SpA Spooky Plate Mega Mewtwo Y Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regirock in Sand: 57-68 (15.6 - 18.6%) -- possible 6HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Mega Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Regirock in Sand: 100-118 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Pros:
  • Great for all around defensive teams, boosts rock type SpD by 1.5
  • Progressively hurts opponents
  • Takes down non-Safety Goggles Shedinja
Cons:
  • Requires a setter
  • Even max SpD Regirock can't handle Diancie
  • Very passive teams can struggle in BH
Conclusion
I hope to spur a conversation on weather. There is surely a lot to be discovered. I encourage people to theory, try it out, and discuss what the find challenging and effective, both strategically and set wise. Like I said, weather isn't the best threat in BH, but it is something that can be viable and win effectively. The biggest problem with weather is having a designated setter taking up a slot can leave your team with a hole. The advantage is that primal weathers are not common, and people won't prepare for weather. What does everyone think?
Nice post! For sand, however, you missed the fact that many teams run surprise sand rush. Even when the surprise is broken, they still have the speed advantages of the other weathers- while not boosting the opponents attacks.

Some other, minor nitpicks- The MMY isn't protean, which is the only set that runs spooky judgement. It also runs secret sword, which does somewhat more if you are max spd.. Your regirock sets lack assualt vest, despite using it in the calc, and you forgot about how rain can help teammates like steel types deal with magma storm.
 
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HailFall

my cancer is sun and my leo is moon

Blaziken-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- U-turn / Precipice Blades

I think sun has another viable threat worth considering. Ive tried it out a bit, and this set works best as a nuke that paves the way for a cleaner like an -ate espeed mon to come in and tear apart the weakened team.

Literally spam v create 99% of the time. Even on resisted hits it typically does more damage than close combat does (unless v create is 4x resisted or cc is 4x supereffective). Close combat is used to fuck up flash fire mons that try to stand in your way. Espeed picks off weakened, slower espeed abusers like aerilate mega ray or pixilate mega diancie. U-turn maintains momentum on predicted sheddy switchins letting you go out to a pursuit trapper. Precipice blades are another option to hit flash fire aegislash, but its fairly rare anyways so i wouldnt normally use it.

this sets only counters i'm aware of are sheddy, fur coat giratina, and flash fire aegislash (depending on the set)

On offensive mons:
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Rayquaza in Sun: 424-499 (120.7 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie in Sun: 390-459 (161.8 - 190.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y in Sun: 1135-1336 (321.5 - 378.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Mewtwo X in Sun: 844-994 (239 - 281.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken Close Combat vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 1060-1252 (282.6 - 333.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Regigigas in Sun: 781-919 (184.6 - 217.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus in Sun: 726-855 (163.8 - 193%) -- guaranteed OHKO

On defensive mons:
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina in Sun: 269-317 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina in Sun: 135-159 (26.8 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino in Sun: 519-612 (126.8 - 149.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Mega Audino in Sun: 261-307 (63.8 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Chansey in Sun: 561-661 (79.8 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh in Sun: 327-384 (78.7 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 

Blaziken-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- U-turn / Precipice Blades

I think sun has another viable threat worth considering. Ive tried it out a bit, and this set works best as a nuke that paves the way for a cleaner like an -ate espeed mon to come in and tear apart the weakened team.

Literally spam v create 99% of the time. Even on resisted hits it typically does more damage than close combat does (unless v create is 4x resisted or cc is 4x supereffective). Close combat is used to fuck up flash fire mons that try to stand in your way. Espeed picks off weakened, slower espeed abusers like aerilate mega ray or pixilate mega diancie. U-turn maintains momentum on predicted sheddy switchins letting you go out to a pursuit trapper. Precipice blades are another option to hit flash fire aegislash, but its fairly rare anyways so i wouldnt normally use it.

this sets only counters i'm aware of are sheddy, fur coat giratina, and flash fire aegislash (depending on the set)

On offensive mons:
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Rayquaza in Sun: 424-499 (120.7 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie in Sun: 390-459 (161.8 - 190.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y in Sun: 1135-1336 (321.5 - 378.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Mewtwo X in Sun: 844-994 (239 - 281.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken Close Combat vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Mega Tyranitar: 1060-1252 (282.6 - 333.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Regigigas in Sun: 781-919 (184.6 - 217.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Arceus in Sun: 726-855 (163.8 - 193%) -- guaranteed OHKO

On defensive mons:
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina in Sun: 269-317 (53.4 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina in Sun: 135-159 (26.8 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mega Audino in Sun: 519-612 (126.8 - 149.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Mega Audino in Sun: 261-307 (63.8 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Chansey in Sun: 561-661 (79.8 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh in Sun: 327-384 (78.7 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Agreed. I'm personally a fan of Tinted Lens for that, as Blaziken is far from slow and it just nukes so called "walls" like Fur Coat giratina. If you can get rocks up, they are losing a mon. Mold Breaker is also great for its ability to beat shed, FF aegi, and fc tina as well, but you miss out on flat out ohkoing regular Giratina. Life orb is also decent, but the chip is meh.
or you can run heat contrary and just stay in
If you don't want to be as obvious about it, you can also run MMX, which deals slightly less with V-Create in exchange for far less predictability, better speed, and stronger coverage/CC
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Mega Mewtwo X V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina in Sun: 410-482 (81.5 - 95.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock vs 252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina in Sun: 538-634 (106.9 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO.

Thanks for bringing this one up- I'd forgotten about it.
 
Hello guys, pokeboss9 here, i read over the whole topic.
Originally i played oldschool BH on PO.
Nevertheless i peaked 11 on BH Showdown ladder.

I dont bother with weather Gen6, atleast their weather should
kick in if heavy weather switches out.

You need a way of hitting Shedinja on weather sweepers.
I have seen Download Red Orb Groudon using Infestation.



Heres a little analysis of the top 11 teams on the ladder currently. (21.04.2016)
These are teams, not alts. 1 Team is 3x times in the top 6, while another 2x in top 10.


Top 10 teams most used Abilities

10 Prankster
7 Protean, -ate (4 pixi, 2 aer, 1 ref)
6 Poison Heal
5 Sturdy, Unaware
3 Magic Bounce, Mold Breaker, Imposter
2 Soundproof
1 Moody, Flash Fire, Fur Coat
Magic Guard, Gale Wings

4 Unknown 1x, Diagla, Tina, 2x M T-Tar


Top 10 alts only;

8 Sturdy
8 Prankster
7 Protean, Poison Heal
6 -ate (3 pixi, 3 aer)
4 Magic Bounce
3 Imposter, Mold Breaker,
3 Moody, Flash Fire, Unaware
1 Contrary, Soundproof

3 Unknown 1x Diagla, Tina, M-T-Tar


edited; discounting myself after 5 loses.
 
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On the topic of weather, I've made this teams a few weeks ago and they are at least decent:
Giratina @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Recover
- Metal Burst
- Defog

Gyarados-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Atk / 56 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Crabhammer
- Spore

Palkia @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
- Steam Eruption

Shedinja @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 36 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 19 Atk / 9 Def / 19 Spe
- Baton Pass
- Pain Split
- Whirlpool
- Recycle

Registeel @ Damp Rock
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Defog
- Rain Dance
- Roost

Diancie-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- Infestation

Giratina @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Recover
- Metal Burst
- Defog

Blaziken-Mega @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- V-create
- Pursuit
- Close Combat
- U-turn

Latios-Mega @ Soul Dew
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Spacial Rend
- Psystrike
- Searing Shot
- King's Shield

Shedinja @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 36 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 19 Atk / 9 Def / 19 Spe
- Baton Pass
- Pain Split
- Fire Spin
- Recycle

Registeel @ Heat Rock
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Defog
- Sunny Day
- Roost

Diancie-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- Infestation

Giratina @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Recover
- Metal Burst
- Will-O-Wisp

Tyranitar-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Diamond Storm
- Spore

Latios-Mega @ Soul Dew
Ability: Sand Rush
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Spacial Rend
- Psystrike
- King's Shield
- Thunderbolt

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Chill Drive
Ability: Protean
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Techno Blast
- Bolt Strike
- King's Shield

Registeel @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Defog
- Knock Off
- Roost

Diancie-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- Infestation

I'd like to make a hail one because hail is my favorite weather, but hail sucks.
 
I made a point in the OM room that fell on deaf ears - Hail is terrible to build a team around. However, as besides the residual damage, it's only passive function is boosting Blizzard's accuracy, you can build in completely different directions and create a team that prevents Shedinja from switching in for 8(or 5) turns straight without accidentally helping the opponent. You can do a lot with 8 turns with the appropriate mon.
 
I'm pretty sure I've posted about Tinted Lens long back in the same thread. I was using a Tinted Lens Mega Blaziken (And a TL Primal Don, but that's banned now anyway) at the beginning of this Gen and had a considerable amount of success.

Non-Weather

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 358-422 (71.1 - 83.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 264-312 (67 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Kyogre: 438-516 (108.6 - 128%) -- guaranteed OHKO


As you can see, TL Blaziken clearly wrecks two commonly used switch-ins (Okay, Kyogre may not be too valid a switch-in, but still).

If you use it in a sun team, then pretty much at least one wall is going down.

Weather

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina in Sun: 538-634 (106.9 - 126%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Mega Slowbro in Sun: 402-474 (102 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO


252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Mega Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina in Sun: 270-318 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

If a fully invested Fur Coat Giratina is 2HKOed, I don't think I need to calc for anything else.

The first problem is of course, the priority users. Blaziken has laughable bulk, in fact so much so that even KyuB can kill it with FakeSpeed.

252+ Atk Icicle Plate Refrigerate Kyurem-B Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 90-107 (29.9 - 35.5%)

252+ Atk Icicle Plate Refrigerate Kyurem-B Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 182-215 (60.4 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


I'm thinking, if you compliment Blaziken with a few walls like Regen/Flash Fire Registeel and Fur Coat Giratina, you can keep switching Blaziken in on walls and perplexing them V-Create. Other moves should be U-Turn, Close Combat for FF Steel Types and maybe consider using E-Speed (You only outspeed Mega Diancie and do a neat 64% damage). Or you can choose to use Infestation for Shedinja, but again you don't want to get out-predicted and stuck with a Banded Infestation.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Mega Blaziken Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 154-182 (63.9 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

The second and more prominent problem, is King's Shield. You don't want to face a KS when you are banded. You just don't. It gives the opponent all sorts of set up opportunities. So make sure you identify the KS users in the opponent's team and try to bring them down. Another equally good wallbreaker, like a Specs Mega Ray might help in this regard, if you plan to build a HO team.

For Blaziken to be truly successful, you have to build a team around it. It cannot stand on its own, unlike many of the current BH threats like MRay and Kyogre.
 
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I'm pretty sure I've posted about Tinted Lens long back in the same thread. I was using a Tinted Lens Mega Blaziken (And a TL Primal Don, but that's banned now anyway) at the beginning of this Gen and had a considerable amount of success.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 288-342 (57.2 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Blaziken V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro in Sun: 322-378 (81.7 - 95.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 248+ Def Kyogre: 354-416 (87.8 - 103.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock


As you can see, TL Blaziken clearly wrecks two commonly used switch-ins (Okay, Kyogre may not be too valid a switch-in, but still).

If you use it in a sun team, then pretty much at least one wall is going down.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Blaziken V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina in Sun: 218-258 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- 57.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

If a fully invested Fur Coat Giratina is 2HKOed, I don't think I need to calc for anything else.

The first problem is of course, the priority users. Blaziken has laughable bulk, in fact so much so that even KyuB can kill it with FakeSpeed.

252+ Atk Icicle Plate Refrigerate Kyurem-B Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 90-107 (29.9 - 35.5%)

252+ Atk Icicle Plate Refrigerate Kyurem-B Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Blaziken: 182-215 (60.4 - 71.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I'm thinking, if you compliment Blaziken with a few walls like Regen/Flash Fire Registeel and Fur Coat Giratina, you can keep switching Blaziken in on walls and perplexing them V-Create. Other moves should be U-Turn, ESpeed and maybe consider using Trick/Switcheroo for those walls which you simply cannot break. Or you can choose to use Infestation for Shedinja, but again you don't want to get out-predicted and stuck with a Banded Infestation.

The second and more prominent problem, is King's Shield. You don't want to face a KS when you are banded. You just don't. It gives the opponent all sorts of set up opportunities. So make sure you identify the KS users in the opponent's team and try to bring them down. Another equally good wallbreaker, like a Specs Mega Ray might help in this regard.

For Blaziken to be truly successful, you have to build a team around it. It cannot stand on its own, like many of the current BH threats like MRay and Kyogre.
Just a note- those calcs are for regular blaziken, not mega.
 
Wow, this topic has not been notifying me about posts.

But weather... weather is fun! I've experimented a bit with Sand and Rain this generation. Haven't gotten to Sun or Hail yet, I think I'll wait until the Protean and -ate suspects to finish since those will have potentially monumental impacts on weather strategies in general. The big three have been discussed already, but for Hail... Gen V experience tells me you want to do balance or stall for Hail. Having a Blizzard-spamming Kyu-W on either as a win-con is a good idea. At the end of Gen V, I was building a Toxic Hail stall team, but never got back to finishing it for Gen VI. I'll share all that later.

I've not really touched my weather teams since the primal bans (been messing around with other teams), so the ones I'm posting are a little out of date, but should be usable with a little tweaking.

Kyogre-Primal @ Damp Rock
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Volt Switch
- Heal Order
- Spiky Shield

Palkia @ Lustrous Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Spacial Rend
- Stealth Rock
- Recover

Gyarados-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Crabhammer
- Crunch
- Heal Order
- King's Shield

Manectric-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Taunt
- Volt Switch

Xerneas @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog
- Heal Bell
- Milk Drink

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Destiny Bond
- Parting Shot
- Soft-Boiled
- Topsy-Turvy



Aerodactyl-Mega @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 4 SpD / 100 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Diamond Storm
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- U-turn

Cresselia (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heart Swap
- Baton Pass
- Recover
- Wish

Regirock @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Heal Order
- Parting Shot
- Entrainment
- Defog

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spore
- Stealth Rock
- Psystrike
- Secret Sword

Yveltal @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- King's Shield
- Knock Off
- Circle Throw
- Sucker Punch

Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- V-create
- Extreme Speed
- Trick

Pre-ORAS used Terrakion instead of Primaldon.

Also, credit to Keep it Playful for the initial team he gave me that this one is built off of.




For those of you who are feeling ballsy and experimental, here's my old Gen V weather teams that might give some of you some ideas. Just... don't use them directly unless you like losing, since they probably won't hold a lot of water beyond the low ladder in this Gen.


It's snow time! (Regice) @ Mail
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Calm Nature
- Milk Drink
- Blizzard
- Knock Off
- Magic Coat

Ice Gengar (Froslass) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes
- Whirlwind
- Spore

Kyurem-Beige (Kyurem-White) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Dragon Pulse
- Tail Glow
- Roost

Rex & Weavile (Weavile) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Crunch
- Close Combat
- Pursuit

Test Dummy 3.0 (Darmanitan-Zen) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Psystrike
- Quiver Dance
- Recover

Continue Testing (Groudon) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Nature Power
- Heal Bell
- Rapid Spin
- Wish


Rain Guy #4 (Kyogre) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Water Spout
- Trick
- Recover

Pwny (Keldeo) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Secret Sword
- Water Spout
- Whirlpool
- Recover

Pwneon (Jolteon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Tail Glow
- Substitute

Aqua Giratina (Giratina) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Heal Bell
- Rest
- U-turn
- Rapid Spin

Waterorus (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Nature Power
- Recover
- Bolt Strike
- Swords Dance

<clever name here> (Dialga) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Calm Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Scald
- Recover
- Heart Swap


(>-_-)>----@ (Kyogre) @ Mail
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Recover
- Magic Coat
- Knock Off

(-_(-_(-_-)_-)_-) (Reshiram) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- V-create
- Overheat
- Recover
- Draco Meteor

[XX]==(O.o)==> (Chandelure) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Judgment
- Recover
- Leech Seed

^('o')^ (Arceus) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Whirlwind
- Knock Off

<(x.x)> (Cresselia) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Perish Song
- Recover

\(<.<)/ (Skarmory) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock


Ruined by Gen VI (Regice) @ Mail
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect
- Blizzard

The Unfinished (Lapras) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Psycho Shift
- Simple Beam

The Inconclusive (Umbreon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Recover
- Heal Bell
- Foul Play
- Taunt

The Incomplete (Articuno) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Roost
- Substitute
- Psycho Shift

Ruined by Gen VI (Arceus) @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Toxic Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Rapid Spin
- Whirlwind

Casualty of the Future (Giratina) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Recover
- Knock Off
- Heal Bell



This team is friggin' terrible since it's one of my first BH teams ever, but I keep record of it for the lolz.

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Careful Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- U-turn

Groudon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Nature Power
- Stone Edge
- Swords Dance

Regirock @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naughty Nature
IVs: null HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef
- Endeavor
- Pain Split
- ExtremeSpeed
- Ice Shard

Shuckle @ Shell Bell
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 1
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naughty Nature
IVs: 1 HP / 0 Def / 0 SDef
- Endeavor
- Pain Split
- ExtremeSpeed
- Ice Shard

Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Sleep Talk
- Recover
- Return

Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Tail Slap
- Icicle Spear
- Swords Dance
- Arm Thrust
 
Sorry for double post, but what the heck, the thread is inactive anyway.

What do you guys think about suspecting Moody?



For those who are unaware (Pun intended), a Moody set looks something like this:

Cancer (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- King's Shield
- Stored Power
- Filler (Usually Moonblast or the less frequent Magma Storm)

I'm not sure how you guys feel about it, but it honestly reminds me of the cancer AssistDon strategy, in the sense that anyone with very little knowledge about BH (Read: noob) can use it to a successful extent. And it needs to support - it is a standalone strategy. Yes, this means 2-3 Moody users in a team is even more headache and near impossible to counter. (Well, Moody does take more setup time before it can become a threat, but it has other advantages as well, such as saving valuable move slot).

First of all, let's clear the air with Chansey being a check to Moody (With Whirlwind). This is normal Chansey I'm talking about here. If it Imposters, then the opponent can easily deal with it, given some luck on his part (But Substitute and Evasion up the 'luck' factor by a lot and Chansey has only 10 PPs of Attacks). I'm assuming that there's a +2 on SpA and there's one more +2 on another Stat (Easily achievable through Moody - takes just 2 turns)

+2 252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 283-334 (40.1 - 47.4%)

So basically, provided Moody gives the chancy +2 on SpA, Chansey must take about 45% just to phaze the user out. Assuming it does that, there's a good chance of bringing out a threat/wallbreaker while Chansey is just - you guessed it - Chansey. What's crazy about this is, the phazed out Moody user can easily jump back in any time and start the cycle all over again. Given luck, Chansey can be easily whittled down with Stored Power (Or by status, wallbreakers etc.,).

This is assuming the opponent does use Chansey. If he doesn't, then it becomes all the more easier for this no-brainer strategy. I strongly feel like there's no valid counter to this strategy. Even the checks are shaky ones. Stored Power breaks through even resisted hits once it reaches 200+ BP (Along with STAB) and Moonblast takes care of Dark types.

Adding to this craziness is the chancy Evasion. In addition to Substitute, buffed up Stats and King's Shield, Evasion takes this ridiculousness to another level.

Are there any strategies you can think of to truly counter (Or strongly check, at least) Moody? Please don't suggest wayward strategies like Unaware Dark Types - Nobody uses them and they'd have no use outside of stopping Moody (Even with Unaware, MMY still packs a punch with a 252+ SpA Moonblast). If you don't think there is one, would you want it banned? Please discuss.

Edit: I was asked to post this on the Suspects thread. But I wanted to make sure if others shared my annoyance. I didn't want to be the only one raging over Moody. If there's enough argument to suspect it, some please move the discussion to the Suspects thread.
 
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Laxpras

One small yeet for man, one giant yeet for mankind
Sorry for double post, but what the heck, the thread is inactive anyway.

What do you guys think about suspecting Moody?



For those who are unaware (Pun intended), a Moody set looks something like this:

Cancer (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- King's Shield
- Stored Power
- Filler (Usually Moonblast or the less frequent Magma Storm)

I'm not sure how you guys feel about it, but it honestly reminds me of the cancer AssistDon strategy, in the sense that anyone with very little knowledge about BH can use it to a successful extent. Well, Moody does take more setup time before it can become a threat, but it has other advantages as well, such as saving valuable move slot.

First of all, let's clear the air with Chansey being a check to Moody (With Whirlwind). This is normal Chansey I'm talking about here. If it Imposters, then the opponent can easily deal with it, given some luck on his part (But Substitute and Evasion up the 'luck' factor by a lot and Chansey has only 10 PPs of Attacks). I'm assuming that there's a +2 on SpA and there's one more +2 on another Stat (Easily achievable through Moody - takes just 2 turns)

+2 252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 283-334 (40.1 - 47.4%)

So basically, provided Moody gives the chancy +2 on SpA, Chansey must take about 45% just to phaze the user out. Assuming it does that, there's a good chance of bringing out a threat/wallbreaker while Chansey is just - you guessed it - Chansey. What's crazy about this is, the phazed out Moody user can easily jump back in any time and start the cycle all over again. Given luck, Chansey can be easily whittled down with Stored Power (Or by status, wallbreakers etc.,).

This is assuming the opponent does use Chansey. If he doesn't, then it becomes all the more easier for this no-brainer strategy. I strongly feel like there's no valid counter to this strategy. Even the checks are shaky ones. Stored Power breaks through even resisted hits once it reaches 200+ BP (Along with STAB) and Moonblast takes care of Dark types.

Adding to this craziness is the chancy Evasion. In addition to Substitute, buffed up Stats and King's Shield, Evasion takes this ridiculousness to another level.

Are there any strategies you can think of to truly counter (Or strongly check, at least) Moody? Please don't suggest wayward strategies like Unaware Dark Types - Nobody uses them and they'd have no use outside of stopping Moody. If you don't think there is one, would you want it banned? Please discuss.
This discussion always gets caught up in what is suspect worthy: Something uncompetitive, broken or both? I never really know the real answer to that, but what I do know is moody is extremely uncompetitive and requires very limited teambuilding strategy, while having the ability to completely dismantle well built teams. With sub and king shield, you can pretty much just keep alternating and get your boosts. Since its +2 and -1 every turn, it just gets better the longer you stay in. The only way to beat it usually relies on winning consecutive 50/50 turns with king shield on priority attacks. Also, boomburst users are all outsped by MMY so that doesn't even kill the sub. Worst of all, moody eventually gives evasion boosts. Once my opponents get evasion boosts, I generally just forfeit as its not worth the annoyance. This is becoming more and more popular on the ladder, and its really obnoxious and uncompetitive to play against. There isn't a strategy I can think of that uses moody in a way that just doesn't rely on luck to get the right boosts, so I think it should definitely be suspected/banned - Unless someone says that its not inherently "Broken" and only "Broken" things get banned, which I don't know the real answer to.

Tl/dr: Moody is obnoxious and is uncompetitive/gives evasion boosts - pls suspect/ban
 
Sorry for double post, but what the heck, the thread is inactive anyway.

What do you guys think about suspecting Moody?



For those who are unaware (Pun intended), a Moody set looks something like this:

Cancer (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- King's Shield
- Stored Power
- Filler (Usually Moonblast or the less frequent Magma Storm)

I'm not sure how you guys feel about it, but it honestly reminds me of the cancer AssistDon strategy, in the sense that anyone with very little knowledge about BH (Read: noob) can use it to a successful extent. And it needs to support - it is a standalone strategy. Yes, this means 2-3 Moody users in a team is even more headache and near impossible to counter. (Well, Moody does take more setup time before it can become a threat, but it has other advantages as well, such as saving valuable move slot).

First of all, let's clear the air with Chansey being a check to Moody (With Whirlwind). This is normal Chansey I'm talking about here. If it Imposters, then the opponent can easily deal with it, given some luck on his part (But Substitute and Evasion up the 'luck' factor by a lot and Chansey has only 10 PPs of Attacks). I'm assuming that there's a +2 on SpA and there's one more +2 on another Stat (Easily achievable through Moody - takes just 2 turns)

+2 252 SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 283-334 (40.1 - 47.4%)

So basically, provided Moody gives the chancy +2 on SpA, Chansey must take about 45% just to phaze the user out. Assuming it does that, there's a good chance of bringing out a threat/wallbreaker while Chansey is just - you guessed it - Chansey. What's crazy about this is, the phazed out Moody user can easily jump back in any time and start the cycle all over again. Given luck, Chansey can be easily whittled down with Stored Power (Or by status, wallbreakers etc.,).

This is assuming the opponent does use Chansey. If he doesn't, then it becomes all the more easier for this no-brainer strategy. I strongly feel like there's no valid counter to this strategy. Even the checks are shaky ones. Stored Power breaks through even resisted hits once it reaches 200+ BP (Along with STAB) and Moonblast takes care of Dark types.

Adding to this craziness is the chancy Evasion. In addition to Substitute, buffed up Stats and King's Shield, Evasion takes this ridiculousness to another level.

Are there any strategies you can think of to truly counter (Or strongly check, at least) Moody? Please don't suggest wayward strategies like Unaware Dark Types - Nobody uses them and they'd have no use outside of stopping Moody (Even with Unaware, MMY still packs a punch with a 252+ SpA Moonblast). If you don't think there is one, would you want it banned? Please discuss.

Edit: I was asked to post this on the Suspects thread. But I wanted to make sure if others shared my annoyance. I didn't want to be the only one raging over Moody. If there's enough argument to suspect it, some please move the discussion to the Suspects thread.
Your points aren't bad, but they are really theoretical. In theory moody just wrecks team by getting a bunch of good boosts and stored power sweeping. In practice Moody isn't very good, it's unreliable and it has no protection from things ppl use to stop sub set up sweepers. Unlike Evasion boosters it can't run Magic Bounce, so Prankster Heart Swap/ Haze beats you every time. Moody might be uncompetitive but there is literally no evidence to support it being on the same level as Assistdon, Chatter or evasion. Additionally theres at least 5 things I can think of off the top of my head that are a far more pressing issue than Moody. -ate, protean, sleep, Contrary, Mega Ray are all much bigger issues to discuss.

Edit: I would discuss moody more in-depth if I wasn't on mobile and if it was a bigger thing in tours and ladders.
 
Your points aren't bad, but they are really theoretical. In theory moody just wrecks team by getting a bunch of good boosts and stored power sweeping. In practice Moody isn't very good, it's unreliable and it has no protection from things ppl use to stop sub set up sweepers. Unlike Evasion boosters it can't run Magic Bounce, so Prankster Heart Swap/ Haze beats you every time. Moody might be uncompetitive but there is literally no evidence to support it being on the same level as Assistdon, Chatter or evasion. Additionally theres at least 5 things I can think of off the top of my head that are a far more pressing issue than Moody. -ate, protean, sleep, Contrary, Mega Ray are all much bigger issues to discuss.
Basically, this. Despite how cancerous it can get, there are plenty of viable counterplays, even including common things like whirlwind and Shedinja.

As for the second set, though, Kingslayer, how is contrary broken, much less uncompetative? It loses straight out to unaware/most imposters, and most sets get rekt by fakespeed and/or gale wings. Maybe if we banned MRay and ate, it might be an issue, but I'm not seeing it. I geuss it can beat some stall teams, but...
 
Basically, this. Despite how cancerous it can get, there are plenty of viable counterplays, even including common things like whirlwind and Shedinja.

As for the second set, though, Kingslayer, how is contrary broken, much less uncompetative? It loses straight out to unaware/most imposters, and most sets get rekt by fakespeed and/or gale wings. Maybe if we banned MRay and ate, it might be an issue, but I'm not seeing it. I geuss it can beat some stall teams, but...
It's kinda something that's on my personal watchlist. A lot of typical unawares actually struggle to wall the raw power of a typical contrary move boosted by STAB. Mega Audino is 2hkoed by Mmx's Superpower and Mega Ray's Dragon Ascent and it's one of the best unawares. i'm not really comfortable calling contrary broken in the current meta, but if we do ban pixi and aerialate like discussed contrary gets way better. It's something I think we will have to discuss later, but not now.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
me and klang have been using moody, and its actually a lot scarier then you would think. people are just using it wrong. klang convinced me to try out moody mono attacker with taunt, and as you could imagine, its very hard to take down, he ran metagross-mega, while i decided to run ogre. with taunt, almost every previous counter to moody becomes setup fodder. unaware was taunted safely, phasers are blocked by sub+taunt, pranksters cant topsy over sub, revenge killers are stopped by spiky sheild+sub. and most common powerful hitters are special, which with kyogres natural bulk, it can tank even mm2's super effective hits with no boosts. kyogre was a complete success, as almost nothing could stop kyogre even without relevant boosts. i feel moody isnt just "uncompetative", its potentially "broken" because of how easy it is to use, how easily it finds ways to setup safely, becomes nigh impossible to take down after it gets a sub up, and how it gets progressively harder to take down as long as you struggle to find ways around it. moody doesn't NEED evasion to work...enless your mm2. stop using moodymm2y.

as for metagross, it was a complete monster in his battle vs me. ates couldnt break it hard enough, offensive mons get ohkoed, bulky mons were nullified with taunt...imposter puts it in a "stalemate" which gives it a free sub and lefties recovery, alongside more boosts. it was a monster. even moreso then my kyogre. idk if moody is broken/uncompetative ENOUGH. but its extremely good and RELIABLY when your not using a strat that relys on evasion to pull off.
 
me and klang have been using moody, and its actually a lot scarier then you would think. people are just using it wrong. klang convinced me to try out moody mono attacker with taunt, and as you could imagine, its very hard to take down, he ran metagross-mega, while i decided to run ogre. with taunt, almost every previous counter to moody becomes setup fodder. unaware was taunted safely, phasers are blocked by sub+taunt, pranksters cant topsy over sub, revenge killers are stopped by spiky sheild+sub. and most common powerful hitters are special, which with kyogres natural bulk, it can tank even mm2's super effective hits with no boosts. kyogre was a complete success, as almost nothing could stop kyogre even without relevant boosts. i feel moody isnt just "uncompetative", its potentially "broken" because of how easy it is to use, how easily it finds ways to setup safely, becomes nigh impossible to take down after it gets a sub up, and how it gets progressively harder to take down as long as you struggle to find ways around it. moody doesn't NEED evasion to work...enless your mm2. stop using moodymm2y.

as for metagross, it was a complete monster in his battle vs me. ates couldnt break it hard enough, offensive mons get ohkoed, bulky mons were nullified with taunt...imposter puts it in a "stalemate" which gives it a free sub and lefties recovery, alongside more boosts. it was a monster. even moreso then my kyogre. idk if moody is broken/uncompetative ENOUGH. but its extremely good and RELIABLY when your not using a strat that relys on evasion to pull off.
Sounds more like Taunt being good then Moody being good. Taunt is criminally underrated in BH, likely because its a little trickier to imposterproof taunt sets than regular sets. Any sort of set up gets much more difficult to deal with when it can Taunt your mons and shut down recovery and status.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Sounds more like Taunt being good then Moody being good. Taunt is criminally underrated in BH, likely because its a little trickier to imposterproof taunt sets than regular sets. Any sort of set up gets much more difficult to deal with when it can Taunt your mons and shut down recovery and status.
yeah, i can support this, ive been using taunt ray. and its funny to watch fc chansey and prank registeel users go "fuck" when they get taunted.
 
I've also been using Taunt Primal Groudon. Being able to whittle down and eventually beat stuff like Fur Coat Giratina is no small feat. (Yes it requires you to devote something to imposter proofing it that's basically a dead slot if they don't have imposter or groudon, yes it's totally worth the dead slot)
 
Basically, this. Despite how cancerous it can get, there are plenty of viable counterplays, even including common things like whirlwind and Shedinja.
As I showed, before using it, the mon using Whirlwind needs to take 40% damage, which is uncompetitive in itself. Shedinja struggles to break a Sub with Evasion and it becomes so easy for a Mold Breaker to switch in on the mean time and take care of it.

If and only if the opponent ran both Shedinja and a good Whirlwind user, Moody becomes somewhat less of nuisance. Even then, given luck, it can overcome these checks.

The main issue is not how powerful Stored Power can get or how just two attacks can break through walls, but luck. Chatter was along the same lines. It wasn't terribly centralizing. Even "in reality" it was an annoyance at best. But given luck, Chatter can single-handedly take down bulky walls, chipping them for damage and confusing them for good. That's why it got banned.
 
If Taunt Moody and junk becomes out of control again, I'm sure the meta would adapt by doing things like Prankster Heartswap. Let the Moody get lots of boosts, steal them, pass to an Imposter-proof Moldy, and proceed to 6-0 the Moody team. Bonus points if the Heart Swapper also has Stored Power in case it gets Taunted so it can OHKO stuff on its own until the Taunt wears off. Then there's also Unaware set-up sweepers (I'm thinking Q. Dance and Coil), who can boost alongside the Moody and then punch it's face in while the Moody can't do anything back.

And all else fails? Did you guys forget about Prankster Destiny Bond? Prankster Grudge and then going into an Imposter also works and is a personal favorite of mine.

Moody is potentially cancerous, yeah, but it's not as broken as stuff like Chatter since, unlike them, it's kinda slow to get going as opposed to "click now for instant win!", has very clear checks, and can backfire spectacularly. Besides, there's A LOT of potential cancer in the tier, but we really need to focus on the cancer that's actually dominating the ladder.
 
If Taunt Moody and junk becomes out of control again, I'm sure the meta would adapt.
"I'm sure the meta would adapt" has always been told by someone before a lot of suspects (Not only in BH). I'm not even kidding. Go back and check.

Let the Moody get lots of boosts, steal them, pass to an Imposter-proof Moldy, and proceed to 6-0 the Moody team. Bonus points if the Heart Swapper also has Stored Power in case it gets Taunted so it can OHKO stuff on its own until the Taunt wears off.
Exactly what I'm saying. You need at least two mons with specific abilities and movesets to successfully check Unaware. That in itself is a statement.

Then there's also Unaware set-up sweepers (I'm thinking Q. Dance and Coil), who can boost alongside the Moody and then punch it's face in while the Moody can't do anything back.
You've got to be kidding me. Moody boosts Stored Power's Base Power to a maximum of 860. Heck, forget 860 BP. Do you know how much a mere 140 BP Stored Power does to fully invested Mega Audino?

252+ SpA Mega Mewtwo Y Stored Power (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Mega Audino: 208-246 (50.7 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

See, this is assuming Mega Audino fully invests in Special Defense, which Unaware users almost never do. And it easily takes 55%. Good luck setting up on that, let alone "punching its face".

And all else fails? Did you guys forget about Prankster Destiny Bond? Prankster Grudge and then going into an Imposter also works and is a personal favorite of mine.
Prankster Destiny Bond is laughably predictable. In fact, experienced players, as soon as they identify a Prankster mon, they know there's a possibility of a DB. Especially if they're going all-out with Moody, they know better than to rush in to KOing a Prankster.

Besides, once there's a DB misprediction, once Destiny Bond is used and the opponent does not attack, it becomes extremely easy for the opponent to avoid DB. While it becomes a headache for the other person to land a correct DB prediction. That is the single biggest flaw in Prankster Destiny Bond.

Finally, Destiny Bond only has 8 PP. The PPs go down easily in mispredictions. I'm sure it can be stalled out before it can do anything remotely viable to stop Unaware.

has very clear checks, and can backfire spectacularly.
I'm sorry. In all the matches with good BH players using Moody, I've hardly ever seen Moody backfiring. I'd like the views of some of the frequent players in the current BH metagame.

Besides, there's A LOT of potential cancer in the tier, but we really need to focus on the cancer that's actually dominating the ladder.
By all means, anyone's welcome to start a suspect discussion if they have valid arguments. I just did. That doesn't mean the other ones are any less of a problem. If you ask me which was a bigger problem, Chatter or AssistDon, I'd say both.
 
I personally have come across moody users and it's incredibly easy for it to get out of hand. Even the very predictable Sub/KS/SPower/Coverage is very difficult to stop once it gets the right boosts.

Now I think the biggest factor of Moody is luck. Just when it was allowed in normal tiers, it was very uncompetitive and there is usually very little lost from using it. Mewtwo for example can easily stall out its imposters's SPower PPs with KS and Sub, and if you get Evasion then imposter isn't even a counter anymore (unless you are a very lucky individual that can hit someone at +2 evasion unlike me ;-;) and even then it can just get up another Sub anyways since it's not possible to hit 5 moves in a row through +2 Evasion. With Magma Storm you get extra shots at it but hitting 70% accurate move repeatedly through evasion is like trying to top the BH ladder with mono deoxys-a stall; it's impossible.

Moody giving +2 evasion is a grain of salt for me and it's pretty self explanatory why it will turn the game into an even more luck based one on top of getting spatk and SpDef boosts and I will not get into it more.

Also I haven't seen many people use this, but I find Whirlwind on a Prankster DBond mon very nice. I've seen people use prankster DBond to check GW Ray and fail spectacularly since the only other option is to parting shot and that is only a minor annoyance since Tail Glow raises spatk by 3. With Parting Shot, DBond and Whirlwind you are almost guaranteed a fail safe setup stopper, just Whirlwind after DBonding or PShot if it's magic bounce.
 

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