BH Balanced Hackmons

some sauce:

feel like primal kyogre has a lot of untapped potential. here's a few sets i've played around with

Kyogre-Primal @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Scald / Ice Beam
- Anchor Shot / Ice Beam
- Entrainment / Spectral Thief
- Roost

bounce ogre is a really solid glue mon that i've found myself slapping onto a lot of teams lately. it's a very solid counter to ph xern/ogre and normgar, and it can solidly check a ton of mons like pixilate diancie and triage ray just by virtue of its typing/bulk. scald + entrainment is difficult for a lot of teams to switch into, and so ogre is pretty good at chipping down teams over a long game with burns. ice beam lets ogre pressure tina and zyg and more effectively check ray. spectral can be used > entrain to better check gar and contra m2y and other miscellaneous nonsense. spectral still beats xern but im not sure if it beats ph ogre and it leaves you walled by stuff like ph tina/aud. this set always feels good against fat balance teams and its very rarely deadweight, just a really solid mon overall. i dont like u-turn much on this set bc it makes it really obnoxious to improof and you let imposter get a lot of momentum against you.

brought this with ice/anchor/entrain in ompl semi-finals vs jasprose bc i thought he might bring ph xern. it was also there to improof sr kyu-b, provide bounce support for shed, and help check triage ray: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-786131531

also brought this in group stages of world cup vs qt with scald/ice/entrain, it put in a ton of work in this one: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-837247289

Kyogre-Primal @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Ice Beam
- Bolt Strike
- Shell Smash

sf ogre is way better than it looks at first glance. steam eruption 2hkos basically anything that doesn't resist it, and ice beam/bolt strike take out anything that does. i like this a lot as a shell smasher bc it beats a lot of common prankster/unaware mons by just being strong enough to 2hko them unboosted. why use sf ogre > sf mmy? there's a few reasons. ogre's better bulk and defensive typing allow it to stick around a lot longer, and in particular it doesn't get worn down so quickly by miscellaneous spectrals/uturns. kyogre has a much more powerful stab, which gives it a lot more initial power and means it relies far less on coverage to break stuff, which allows it to more effectively run stuff like shell smash. the surprise factor is pretty significant too; often people will go into something like tina or vest ogre to scout and just get bopped.

this set can be difficult to imposter-proof. shedinja works, but it's really the only decent option unless you want to go really deep and run something like unaware ferro or volt absorb ogre. its important to note that bolt strike does like 45-55 to imposter, meaning that imposter can't really safely switch in if you predict it, and if you smash on the switch to imposter you can just kill it with a decent roll or even just a little bit of prior damage.

this obviously lacks the raw power of other offensive ogre sets like specs primsea/tinted, but gains the advantage of being able to switch moves, being less telegraphed than primsea, being better at running shell smash, and not losing to other pogres.

here's a replay on ladder where sf ogre put in some good work: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-833776329

Kyogre-Primal @ Waterium Z / Icium Z / Mystic Water
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Ice Beam
- Anchor Shot
- Shore Up

i found a way to make primsea ogre not lose to imposter yeet

haven't really tested this set enough to come to a verdict on it, heaps of teams can't really deal with it defensively and it has bulk + shore up so it can stick around but it can't really beat giratina or other ogres besides freezing them. it is a very fun imposter lure tho


BIG PEX ENERGY (Toxapex) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Entrainment
- Scald / Poison Fang / Knock Off
- Anchor Shot / U-turn / Topsy-Turvy / whatever

pex is a weird mon, but i like it very much. its unique set of resists and good bulk allows it to role compress in a pretty unique way. pex beats mdiancie/xern without ground coverage, many variants of ogre, psychic-less mmx (ph, -ate, some tough claws sets, some contra sets sometimes), pheromosa and the bee, many kart sets, and some other miscellaneous dudes. it has an extremely slow u-turn, it's really hard for fat teams to wear down bc it can't be poisoned, resists uturn and anchor and isnt weak to core/spectral. pex's main niche is that it resists fairy+fire without needing an ability, making it a really efficient improof to v-create+hazards diancie. i've only really run pex on teams where i needed it to improof something specific, like in this ompl game where it was improofing a couple of weird mmx sets. pex walled basically willdbeast's whole team here, but i played it kinda poorly unfortunately. i'm not sure if pex is worth running without magic bounce — i've considered running levitate but i don't think that's very good


Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Bolt Strike / Psychic / Sludge Wave
- Ice Beam / Moonblast
- Earth Power / Blue Flare
- Stealth Rock / Spikes

sf mmy makes for a good hazard setter bc it forces so many switches and beats most of the common defoggers/bouncers. sf mmy often runs a kinda situational move like psychic or sludge in the last slot, so you aren't sacrificing a huge amount running hazards on it. improof with some magic bounce fat dude, depending on coverage


Diancie-Mega @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Low Kick
- Lovely Kiss
- Coil

i talked about this one on the discord yesterday and people seemed skeptical, so i figured it'd be good to explain why i think this set is worth using. defensively, this set is a solid counter to pretty much every ph gigas/mmx and it does a nice job at checking a variety of ray sets. it also gets a ton of momentum on a variety of fat mons, similar to ph xern. this set is good against the same types of teams that ph xern is good against, but it has a bit more initial speed and power. coil boosting the accuracy of kiss is really sweet and makes the set a lot more consistent. the 4x steel weakness is really annoying, as is the weaknesses to thousand waves and ogre's revdance. i brought this one against quantum tesseract in world cup: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-837247289. it would have been able to do well in this game if i hadn't assumed the zygarde was soundproof


Aerodactyl-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Dragon Ascent
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance

really silly zyg/tina lure that can also check most mmx/ray sets and weakened mmy/gar. it can be imposter-proof sometimes if they haven't set their happiness


Xerneas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Magma Storm
- Taunt
- Nuzzle

taunt+nuzzle xern crushes a lot of fat teams. taunt shuts down entrainment/recovery and stops other fat ph mons from setting up on you. nuzzle does a few things: it makes the set more potent against offense, it's really good against imposter, and it lets you beat stuff like magic bounce audino that would beat you otherwise. you just paralyse them, then get them with magma and spam moonblast, it usually only takes one full para to take them out. this set goes really well with spikes. you do lose a lot against more offensive teams by dropping quiver + kiss, but this set is basically free wins vs a lot of common bulky builds, very fun stuff.
 
some sauce:

feel like primal kyogre has a lot of untapped potential. here's a few sets i've played around with

Kyogre-Primal @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
- Scald / Ice Beam
- Anchor Shot / Ice Beam
- Entrainment / Spectral Thief
- Roost

bounce ogre is a really solid glue mon that i've found myself slapping onto a lot of teams lately. it's a very solid counter to ph xern/ogre and normgar, and it can solidly check a ton of mons like pixilate diancie and triage ray just by virtue of its typing/bulk. scald + entrainment is difficult for a lot of teams to switch into, and so ogre is pretty good at chipping down teams over a long game with burns. ice beam lets ogre pressure tina and zyg and more effectively check ray. spectral can be used > entrain to better check gar and contra m2y and other miscellaneous nonsense. spectral still beats xern but im not sure if it beats ph ogre and it leaves you walled by stuff like ph tina/aud. this set always feels good against fat balance teams and its very rarely deadweight, just a really solid mon overall. i dont like u-turn much on this set bc it makes it really obnoxious to improof and you let imposter get a lot of momentum against you.

brought this with ice/anchor/entrain in ompl semi-finals vs jasprose bc i thought he might bring ph xern. it was also there to improof sr kyu-b, provide bounce support for shed, and help check triage ray: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-786131531

also brought this in group stages of world cup vs qt with scald/ice/entrain, it put in a ton of work in this one: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-837247289

Kyogre-Primal @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Ice Beam
- Bolt Strike
- Shell Smash

sf ogre is way better than it looks at first glance. steam eruption 2hkos basically anything that doesn't resist it, and ice beam/bolt strike take out anything that does. i like this a lot as a shell smasher bc it beats a lot of common prankster/unaware mons by just being strong enough to 2hko them unboosted. why use sf ogre > sf mmy? there's a few reasons. ogre's better bulk and defensive typing allow it to stick around a lot longer, and in particular it doesn't get worn down so quickly by miscellaneous spectrals/uturns. kyogre has a much more powerful stab, which gives it a lot more initial power and means it relies far less on coverage to break stuff, which allows it to more effectively run stuff like shell smash. the surprise factor is pretty significant too; often people will go into something like tina or vest ogre to scout and just get bopped.

this set can be difficult to imposter-proof. shedinja works, but it's really the only decent option unless you want to go really deep and run something like unaware ferro or volt absorb ogre. its important to note that bolt strike does like 45-55 to imposter, meaning that imposter can't really safely switch in if you predict it, and if you smash on the switch to imposter you can just kill it with a decent roll or even just a little bit of prior damage.

this obviously lacks the raw power of other offensive ogre sets like specs primsea/tinted, but gains the advantage of being able to switch moves, being less telegraphed than primsea, being better at running shell smash, and not losing to other pogres.

here's a replay on ladder where sf ogre put in some good work: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-833776329

Kyogre-Primal @ Waterium Z / Icium Z / Mystic Water
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Ice Beam
- Anchor Shot
- Shore Up

i found a way to make primsea ogre not lose to imposter yeet

haven't really tested this set enough to come to a verdict on it, heaps of teams can't really deal with it defensively and it has bulk + shore up so it can stick around but it can't really beat giratina or other ogres besides freezing them. it is a very fun imposter lure tho


BIG PEX ENERGY (Toxapex) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Shore Up
- Entrainment
- Scald / Poison Fang / Knock Off
- Anchor Shot / U-turn / Topsy-Turvy / whatever

pex is a weird mon, but i like it very much. its unique set of resists and good bulk allows it to role compress in a pretty unique way. pex beats mdiancie/xern without ground coverage, many variants of ogre, psychic-less mmx (ph, -ate, some tough claws sets, some contra sets sometimes), pheromosa and the bee, many kart sets, and some other miscellaneous dudes. it has an extremely slow u-turn, it's really hard for fat teams to wear down bc it can't be poisoned, resists uturn and anchor and isnt weak to core/spectral. pex's main niche is that it resists fairy+fire without needing an ability, making it a really efficient improof to v-create+hazards diancie. i've only really run pex on teams where i needed it to improof something specific, like in this ompl game where it was improofing a couple of weird mmx sets. pex walled basically willdbeast's whole team here, but i played it kinda poorly unfortunately. i'm not sure if pex is worth running without magic bounce — i've considered running levitate but i don't think that's very good


Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Bolt Strike / Psychic / Sludge Wave
- Ice Beam / Moonblast
- Earth Power / Blue Flare
- Stealth Rock / Spikes

sf mmy makes for a good hazard setter bc it forces so many switches and beats most of the common defoggers/bouncers. sf mmy often runs a kinda situational move like psychic or sludge in the last slot, so you aren't sacrificing a huge amount running hazards on it. improof with some magic bounce fat dude, depending on coverage


Diancie-Mega @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Play Rough
- Low Kick
- Lovely Kiss
- Coil

i talked about this one on the discord yesterday and people seemed skeptical, so i figured it'd be good to explain why i think this set is worth using. defensively, this set is a solid counter to pretty much every ph gigas/mmx and it does a nice job at checking a variety of ray sets. it also gets a ton of momentum on a variety of fat mons, similar to ph xern. this set is good against the same types of teams that ph xern is good against, but it has a bit more initial speed and power. coil boosting the accuracy of kiss is really sweet and makes the set a lot more consistent. the 4x steel weakness is really annoying, as is the weaknesses to thousand waves and ogre's revdance. i brought this one against quantum tesseract in world cup: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-837247289. it would have been able to do well in this game if i hadn't assumed the zygarde was soundproof


Aerodactyl-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Refrigerate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Dragon Ascent
- Precipice Blades
- Swords Dance

really silly zyg/tina lure that can also check most mmx/ray sets and weakened mmy/gar. it can be imposter-proof sometimes if they haven't set their happiness


Xerneas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest/Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Magma Storm
- Taunt
- Nuzzle

taunt+nuzzle xern crushes a lot of fat teams. taunt shuts down entrainment/recovery and stops other fat ph mons from setting up on you. nuzzle does a few things: it makes the set more potent against offense, it's really good against imposter, and it lets you beat stuff like magic bounce audino that would beat you otherwise. you just paralyse them, then get them with magma and spam moonblast, it usually only takes one full para to take them out. this set goes really well with spikes. you do lose a lot against more offensive teams by dropping quiver + kiss, but this set is basically free wins vs a lot of common bulky builds, very fun stuff.
Would Extreme Speed be better on Aerodactyl? Just for countering -ate Rayquaza for the priority win (plus if you switch into Nuzzle, etc.)
I like Kyogre especially because the initially slower speed diminishes the likelihood of Spectral Thief working after the boost, and lowering the likelihood of Core Enforcer activating (on the Sheer Force set).

My suggestion to everything that runs Ice Beam without Sheer Force, is use Frost Breathe! It bypasses Quiver Dance, etc. boosts, and deals slightly more damage on average (even though they have the same base power). This makes a huge difference when facing things like PH Xerneas with Quiver Dance, Contrarians with V-Create, or if your team has been Spectral Thiefed of your +SpD boosts. It also helps if your SpA is lowered (Topsy Turvey, Parting Shot, etc.)
 
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Double post but whatever.
All the cores have been sent out for the Balanced Hackmons Secret Santa Project.
Please finish the team ASAP and PM me in the same conversation that we have been communicating in.
Try to finish the team before December 24th, 21:00, PST, so I can send it out before the 25th.
Please make the team as viable as possible, if possible include replays of the team in action (whether its on ladder or with a friend) that are against competent opponents. Please also include a description of the team.
Please don't test teams with other people that are participating in this secret santa project. This includes
Good Luck with teambuilding!
 
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How’s this HO team? Pls don’t think ‘who is this loser and why is he running soundproof drill’ I tried to check -ate, sort of.
Beedrill-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Bolt Strike
- Icicle Crash

Aegislash @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Pursuit
- U-turn
- Shore Up
- Defog

Slaking @ Normalium Z
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Spectral Thief

Rayquaza-Mega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Oblivion Wing
- Giga Drain
- Draining Kiss

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Spore
- Close Combat
- King's Shield

Gyarados-Mega @ Dark Memory
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Spore
- Multi-Attack
- Close Combat
 
How’s this HO team? Pls don’t think ‘who is this loser and why is he running soundproof drill’ I tried to check -ate, sort of.
Beedrill-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Soundproof
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Close Combat
- Bolt Strike
- Icicle Crash

Aegislash @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Pursuit
- U-turn
- Shore Up
- Defog

Slaking @ Normalium Z
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Shard
- Belly Drum
- Extreme Speed
- Spectral Thief

Rayquaza-Mega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Oblivion Wing
- Giga Drain
- Draining Kiss

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Spore
- Close Combat
- King's Shield

Gyarados-Mega @ Dark Memory
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Spore
- Multi-Attack
- Close Combat
I totally appreciate you taking inspiration from my Slaking set, I think it’s great to surprise many people thinking it’s PHeal, and boom just when they switch to a Safety Goggles Pokemon you Belly Drum and proceed to 1HKO their team.

I would replace Specs on Rayquaza with Life Orb, and replace Draining Kiss with Tail Glow. After STAB, neutral Oblivion Wing outdamages a Super Effective Draining Kiss and you can heal off the Life Orb Damage anyways.

A lot of people don’t realize this, but Slaking is a perfect counter to Triage Rayquaza, being completely immune to all of its attacks, which makes it a perfect Imposterproof for both itself and Rayquaza! :)

One thing I would suggest to you is to replace Beedrill with Arceus and use Tail Glow, Boomburst, Moongeist Beam, and Recover to stop Sound moves.

Otherwise, Pheromosa has STAB on Close Combat and higher Speed, so it can do the same moveset Beedrill has with a few advantages.

For Gyarados, I think Unaware sets should be defensive, using Shell Smash will still lower your Defense and Special Defense, so an Imposter with Close Combat will still hurt it. How about Shore Up, Knock Off, Dragon Tail, and Shift Gear? You boost your Attack and Speed, while removing an Imposter’s Eviolite or Scarf. Dragon Tail can be used to pHaze a Pokémon like Regigigas or Slaking that are not affected by Spectral Thief. This can also counter your Slaking if Impostered (say your Slaking gets Poisoned by Toxic Spikes and the their Imposter outlives it). It’s item is Safety Goggles, although Darkinium-Z could be used for NormGar and hitting Giratina hard on a switch.

Overall, I think you did a great job!
The only thing left is to ensure Aegislash can survive more hits so that Shedinja isn’t able to threaten your team as easily. Let’s give it Stealth Rocks, Defog, Spectral Thief, and Shore Up (if your foe Imposters it, Arceus and Slaking are not threatened by it). It’s item is Leftovers, and it’s Ability is Flash Fire.
 
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Absolutely agree with most suggestions in the above, but some disagreements
For Gyarados, I think Unaware sets should be defensive, using Shell Smash will still lower your Defense and Special Defense, so an Imposter with Close Combat will still hurt it. How about Shore Up, Knock Off, Dragon Tail, and Shift Gear? You boost your Attack and Speed, while removing an Imposter’s Eviolite or Scarf. Dragon Tail can be used to pHaze a Pokémon like Regigigas or Slaking that are not affected by Spectral Thief. This can also counter your Slaking if Impostered (say your Slaking gets Poisoned by Toxic Spikes and the their Imposter outlives it). It’s item is Safety Goggles, although Darkinium-Z could be used for NormGar and hitting Giratina hard on a switch.

The only thing left is to ensure Aegislash can survive more hits so that Shedinja isn’t able to threaten your team as easily. Let’s give it Stealth Rocks, Defog, Spectral Thief, and Shore Up (if your foe Imposters it, Arceus and Slaking are not threatened by it). It’s item is Leftovers, and it’s Ability is Flash Fire.
His Gyarados is capable of checking Sweepers while being a dangerous threat itself, Aegislash improofs it and its a HO team so its supposed to be fast.
Mold Breaker Aegi removes Shed?
 
Absolutely agree with most suggestions in the above, but some disagreements

His Gyarados is capable of checking Sweepers while being a dangerous threat itself, Aegislash improofs it and its a HO team so its supposed to be fast.
Mold Breaker Aegi removes Shed?
Yeah this was the idea. I wanted to get an offensive check to normgar while still having the respect to hurt other moms after set up. I really really hate shed, so Mold breaker pursuit on aegislash sounds great.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-838581574
This replay shows how effective the set is.
 
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I just thought I'd post a (kinda bad) team I've been using a bit lately featuring magic bounce Ho-oh. sl42 said something in a vr post or somewhere about how non magic guard ho-oh isn't too bad and I thought Ho-oh is super neat bc it resists a lot of the stuff common offensive setters run: fairy + fire/ground from diancie, fighting + dark/bug/ice (not actually a resist, sue me) from PH mmx, fire + ground (+ steel?) from defensive pdon, although v-create does a million anyway. And it still does ho-ohy things with bounce
252 SpA Life Orb Pixilate Diancie-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Ho-Oh: 121-143 (29 - 34.3%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Diancie-Mega V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 114-135 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- 69.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 101-119 (24.2 - 28.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 96-113 (23 - 27.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Groudon-Primal V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh in Harsh Sunshine: a million -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Defog
- Anchor Shot
- Whirlwind

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Anchor Shot
- Entrainment
- Shore Up

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Expert Belt
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Frost Breath
- Storm Throw
- Spikes
- Sunsteel Strike

Yveltal @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Slack Off
- Rapid Spin
- Revelation Dance
- Beak Blast

Giratina @ Lagging Tail
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Haze
- Destiny Bond
- U-turn
- Shore Up

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Defog
- Recover
- Knock Off
- U-turn

This is probably nowhere near to optimal and it has some serious flaws (no gigas switchin, very triage ray weak) but it's a nice example of what bounce Ho-oh can do, here specifically it prevents imposters from setting up spikes as well as checking normgar, most diancie, xern, some mmx and a range of other special attackers while providing support with bounce. Any quick fixes would be appreciated but I'm not particularly concerned with the team itself or even the particular Ho-oh set, but just some different abilities it can viably run.
Also I gotta say Beak Blast has been really good on PH yveltal, it's a shame there's no users in this community who vocally advocate its use...



Some people have suggested stuff like PH Ho-oh and I was thinking fc sounds nice on paper as long as you keep rocks off, and I'd be interested to see any more ideas.
 
Willdbeast Photon over Sunsteel: Storm Throw hits Ice, and Rock Pokémon barring Diancie-Mega super effectively anyways, and you wouldn’t stay in on -ate Diancie-Mega anyways.

Audino-Mega takes 240 Base power from MMX’s Expert Belt Sunsteel Strike, but Storm Throw at 195 Base power after STAB does a 2HKO regardless, just like Sunsteel Strike.

252 Atk Technician Mewtwo-Mega-X Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega on a critical hit: 199-235 (48.5 - 57.3%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Expert Belt Mewtwo-Mega-X Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega: 235-278 (57.3 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Xerneas with PH can survive Sunsteel and use Spore:

252 Atk Expert Belt Mewtwo-Mega-X Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas: 286-338 (62.7 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Which means it can set up and Moonblast MMX.

Photon handles Gengar-M on forced speedties, Pheromosa and on a switch, etc.

Sunsteel and Storm Throw offer redundant coverage so I think STAB Photon works better overall. But it’s just a preference.

Yeah this was the idea. I wanted to get an offensive check to normgar while still having the respect to hurt other moms after set up. I really really hate shed, so Mold breaker pursuit on aegislash sounds great.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-838581574
This replay shows how effective the set is.
Slaking Ftw!
I am not sure if Aegislash can Improof Gyarados without Safety Goggles unless you Stall it to switch. It can still stay in and use Struggle unless you U-Turn it after it used Shell Smash over and over.

I agree with Gyarados but Imposter Gyrados can use Spore and stop your own Gyarados, and proceed to set up or use Close Combat, which could be an issue if Aegislash has fainted. MMX is immune to Spore but if you cannot send it in, then Imposter can pose a threat if it wins Spore Speed tie.

Unaware only ignores the opponents stat changes, so if they have something with Priority, such as -ate, they can hit Gyarados off of its lowered defenses. Shift Gear can be useful for setting up in the long term, especially since Gyarados doesn’t have a healing move and you may need to send it in multiple times.

I agree that Aegislash with Mold Breaker stops Shedinja, but what do you do if Aegislash is KOed? I suggest Stealth Rocks on your team. Maybe over King’s Shield on MMX?

I have seen PH MMX with Spikes or Stealth Rocks, and it would be a nice surprise on something that forces switches anyways.
 
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Slaking Ftw!
I am not sure if Aegislash can Improof Gyarados without Safety Goggles unless you Stall it to switch. It can still stay in and use Struggle unless you U-Turn it after it used Shell Smash over and over.

I agree with Gyarados but Imposter Gyrados can use Spore and stop your own Gyarados, and proceed to set up or use Close Combat, which could be an issue if Aegislash has fainted. MMX is immune to Spore but if you cannot send it in, then Imposter can pose a threat if it wins Spore Speed tie.

Unaware only ignores the opponents stat changes, so if they have something with Priority, such as -ate, they can hit Gyarados off of its lowered defenses. Shift Gear can be useful for setting up in the long term, especially since Gyarados doesn’t have a healing move and you may need to send it in multiple times.

I agree that Aegislash with Mold Breaker stops Shedinja, but what do you do if Aegislash is KOed? I suggest Stealth Rocks on your team. Maybe over King’s Shield on MMX?

I have seen PH MMX with Spikes or Stealth Rocks, and it would be a nice surprise on something that forces switches anyways.
Aegislash is immune to all of Imposter Gyara’s attacks. It’s a perfect improof.
 
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Hey everyone!
So the BHSS deadline has been reached and everyone (bar one naughty person) submitted the teams!
So you can post the team you got here and try to find out who sent you it (unless you already found out on discord) or discuss (basically do whatever with them).
Merry Christmas everyone and have a great holiday!
 
Hey everyone!
So the BHSS deadline has been reached and everyone (bar one naughty person) submitted the teams!
So you can post the team you got here and try to find out who sent you it (unless you already found out on discord) or discuss (basically do whatever with them).
Merry Christmas everyone and have a great holiday!
Here is my just received SS team! I am surprised by Diancie (non-Mega), but I shall try it.
https://pokepast.es/e6df3462671cea6c
Please let me know who worked on it. I am curious to know. :)
 
Balanced Hackmons Core/Set Laddering Challenge

Hi everyone! I'm going to host a Biweekly BH Core/Set Laddering Challenge to encourage discussion on certain sets/cores (usually underused ones).
  1. Every 2 weeks I will be releasing 2 cores/sets (might be 1).
  2. You will have those 2 weeks to build a team for each core/set and ladder with it on an alt.
  3. The alt needs to include a certain "String of words" that will be posted with the core.
  4. Near the end of the 2 weeks you can post your team along with proof of your laddering results.
  5. Replays are optional but good for supplementing, but only post replays against viable teams.
  6. DO post a description of your team, you can keep it brief, but at least mention what the role of each mon is, what is their improof, why they are there, etc.
  7. I (along with maybe some other people), will determine the winner of each biweekly challenge.
  8. Have Fun!
No one here... yet

Week 1: Choice Specs Tinted Lens MMY and Technician MMX
Your alts should include tlmmy and techmmx, not separated apart from spaces, respectively. It can be capitalized if you want.
Specs Tinted Lens MMY is a fearsome breaker that capitalizes on its usual switch-in such as steels (bar Solgaleo and NDM).
Technician MMX is another strong breaker that can break through common switch-ins such as Prankster Giratina.
You have until January 11th to finish, good luck!
 
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Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request)

went from brawl to melee, still mediocre
is a Community Contributor
THE LEGEND OF BAND SAND: ONE MAN'S QUEST TO HAVE FUN ON THE BH LADDER

i'm back with another post. so if you guys have ever seen me ladder, you know i can get tilted pretty easily, and even without tilt i tend to dismiss a lot of games as "bad". in this post, i'll explain why i think like this and what i've learned, and how one gimmicky team fits into the tale.

on fun in bh:

for a while i thought that such a high percentage of games being "bad" was because of some kind of issue in the metagame, or even the nature of bh itself being problematic with it not supporting "good" high-level play somehow. but now, i have a better answer.

today, i realized that what set my teams apart from those of others. in bh, there's a kind of spectrum which all teams fall somewhere on, in which one side (hyper offense) focuses on checking threats, while the other (stall) focuses more on countering them. my teams, outside of my gimmicky attempts at offense builds, almost always tend to fall very far to the right, which is why i tend to use more gimmicky mons a lot of the time: more mainstream options, like registeel, tend to make poor choices as perfect counters to threats, so instead i use stuff like nihilego as my mray switchin.

and this is where the "bad" games come in. with a playstyle built around countering everything, you typically get two types of games very often: games where they have something you're not prepared for that has a big advantage, and games where you have the counters to everything so you just end up crushing their team. now, i'd definitely call both of these game types "bad". i don't get anything out of losing to some dumb ladder set, and i don't get anything out of walling out some poor 1500s dude until my breaker gets enough opportunities to come in.

my hyper offense teams can still produce lots of bad games, despite their "checking" philosophy, and i'm still working out why that is. but there is one team i have that's almost always a blast to use, no matter whether or not i win:

Steelix-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn
- Defog
- Thousand Arrows
- First Impression

Garchomp-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Precipice Blades
- Ice Hammer
- First Impression

Tyranitar-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Rock Blast

Lunala @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Force
- Spectral Thief
- Photon Geyser
- Parting Shot

Regigigas @ Choice Band
Ability: Turboblaze
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sleep Talk
- Explosion
- Shadow Sneak

Lucario-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Sunsteel Strike
- Icicle Spear
- U-turn

disclaimer: i'm not trying to say that this team is good, or "innovative", or anything like that. this is not some new tournament tech. this is band sand.

so anyway, how does band sand, of all things, prevent these bad games from happening? i think there's a couple reasons behind it:

first of all, band sand takes away safe options by nature. yeah, in some games, you can get caught in a slow uturn vortex, where you're forced to go to a certain mon constantly in order to not get blown back by some breaker, but in general the mon you have out can do some serious damage to the opposing mon if it chooses to. the team also has strong wallbreaking options, like chomp and regi + pursuit support, so there aren't really safe counters. but in return, band sand has almost no safe options as well. literally the only form of recovery on the team is steelix's regenerator, and unless you go with relatively weak uturns your options are usually going to be punishable to some extent.

additionally, the thing about band sand is that it doesn't outright lose to very much on matchup. its breaking core can wear down most defensive cores if you play appropriately, and its abundance of priority, as well as sand rush lunala as speed control, can take on most sweepers. these benefits do, of course, come at the cost of always being locked into a move, and because of this there really isn't that much that band sand outright beats either. this removes most of the "matchup" issue that makes me mad a lot, and a lot of the games end up super close.

having a team that can lose to all but the scrubbiest of low ladder teams doesn't sound like a good formula for success, and yeah, i lost a bunch of elo while using band sand. it's not consistent in the slightest. but i did get some absolutely awesome games that rewarded skill:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-843344859
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-843358720
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-843346044
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-843354581
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-843356734
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-843379122

so where do we go from here? my current approach of countering threats instead of checking them is definitely restrictive, even if it has brought me some success in tournaments. giving the other end of the spectrum a better chance will be a lot more helpful in the future.

this was more of a self introspective than a metagame post, so i'm sorry if you didn't get much out of it, but if nothing else maybe you can make use of band sand if youre not finding the meta fun either rn. thanks for reading.
 
here's a lead
Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Fake Out
- Nature's Madness
- Psycho Boost
 
here's a lead
Deoxys-Speed @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Fake Out
- Nature's Madness
- Psycho Boost
Quite frankly, Deoxys-Speed is a pretty poor mon in the metagame. Especially if it is a suicide lead without Mold Breaker, as you are just asking for Magic Bounce to come in, since your Psycho boost does like no damage. I really don't understand the point of Magic guard when you are leading with it so it won't switch in to hazards and the only mon this helps against is Sand Stream TTar which isn't that common anyway.

Even if you want to use a suicide lead Mega Gengar is usually better, as it can provide offensive presence, as well as bluffing to be the more common offensive setup Mold Breaker set.
One thing I would do, is replace Nature’s Madness with Reversal. Since you are guaranteed to survive a really strong move, Reversal could provide decent damage against Dark and Steel types at 1 HP. Destiny Bond could also work. :)

While not required, I think Taunt might be a better option than Fake-Out just because it can prevent more tactics an opponent uses.

I like Deoxys-S! He is a definite speedy start to a fun team!
Deo-S has 95 base attack so it is not going to be doing much even with 200 BP reversal, if you want something gimmicky like that running Counter/Mirror Coat would be better. On this particular set Spectral Thief might even be a option if he didn't mention that this is a lead.
 
IMO, Deo-S works best in the current meta as fast check to fast opponents rather than a lead. Something you bring in constantly to harass quick opponents without needing to rely on Prankster and then bail when the opponent brings in their check. Or you can give it Prankster to check opposing Prankster. It's pretty niche though since it's pretty frail, gets hurt by speed control, and Shell Smash is rather popular, so you gotta work a bit to fit it on a team.
 
Psycho Boost was only in case the opponent had taunt since they could have gotten a free setup from making me switch. Nature's Madness was a move just so I could get an easy 50% off their health. Fake out was so they couldn't set up, and stealth rock to check focus sash. I didn't notice lots of these things as I was making the set, so thanks for the feedback. I'll try to make a much better set.
 
Tyranitar-Mega @ White Herb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Earthquake
- Accelerock
- Darkest Lariat


You set up, they die. Hopefully. I didn't check to see if there were any checks, so it's probably not invincible. Try it anyways.
 
Tyranitar-Mega @ White Herb
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Earthquake
- Accelerock
- Darkest Lariat


You set up, they die. Hopefully. I didn't check to see if there were any checks, so it's probably not invincible. Try it anyways.
Why not Diamond Storm? Why not Knock Off or Pursuit? Why not Precipice Blades or Thousand Arrows. TTar likes its bulk, so why Shell Smash over Shift gear. Then again, I’m very inexperienced at the meta shrug
 
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Neck Rope There's a few issues with the set. Your current set is walled by pretty much any Unaware who isn't weak to your STAB. Accelrock, even at +4, doesn't threaten any common Prankster Haze user and you don't need the priority to hit much else since Pixilate Diancie outspeeds anyway with Extreme Speed. The set is also hard-walled by Shedinja and very vulnerable to Imposter.

If you're running Simple Smash on a Dark-type, you really have no reason not to run Power Trip. The coverage moves are also somewhat iffy. The similar Unburden set runs Sunsteel Strike to bypass a number of checks to the set and also uses Unburden + Imprison to check Imposter, although it could sub in another coverage move if it desired.


BoopToOblivion I assume he's running Accelrock for priority, though Diamond Storm would be stronger and would synergize nicely with Simple.

Knock Off/Pursuit would be inferior to Power Trip on a Smash Set except when attacking while unboosted. In any case, as strong as those moves are, Darkest Lariat does have a niche over them in consistent damage, since Knock Off and Pursuit are kinda weak with their boost triggers don't occur. Lariat also ignores defense boosts, which is neat, but kinda niche since Cotton Guard/Cosmic Power/Coil are uncommon and T-Tar doesn't want to stare down Contrary Superpower anyway.

Earthquake has a niche over Thousand Arrows/Waves in that it does more damage and is easier to Imposter-proof and a niche over Precipice in that it's more accurate. You usually don't run it since it either doesn't hit a KO threshold that Thousand Arrows/Waves misses or falls short of one Precipice hits. It has its place on a few sets though, just not many. Not sure if he's running it for that reason though.

Shift Gear is a good move, but in a meta full of Haze and Spectral Thief, it's a little slow to get going. Hence most set-up sweepers run Smash these days since the loss of bulk is usually worth the reduction in set-up time. He's also running White Herb, so the bulk drop can be ignored, once, either way, provided he doesn't get hit by Knock Off or Trick before setting up. (Or like... Embargo or something else really obscure.)
 
Why not Diamond Storm? Why not Knock Off or Pursuit? Why not Precipice Blades or Thousand Arrows. TTar likes its bulk, so why Shell Smash over Shift gear. Then again, I’m very inexperienced at the meta shrug
I used accelerock to have at least one priority move. I agree that Diamond storm would have been better. Darkest Lariat was in case the opponent had defensive stat changes. Earthquake would be better than precipice blades because it has more accuracy. Thousand arrows could work to knock flying types, but then again I had a rock type move already. As for shell smash, the whole reason I had the white herb was to get rid of the lowered stats. Simple would make it *3 attack and speed, ignoring spak because you don't need it. Yes, I could have had a much better item if I replaced it with shift gear, so I will. Thanks.
 
I used accelerock to have at least one priority move. I agree that Diamond storm would have been better. Darkest Lariat was in case the opponent had defensive stat changes. Earthquake would be better than precipice blades because it has more accuracy. Thousand arrows could work to knock flying types, but then again I had a rock type move already. As for shell smash, the whole reason I had the white herb was to get rid of the lowered stats. Simple would make it *3 attack and speed, ignoring spak because you don't need it. Yes, I could have had a much better item if I replaced it with shift gear, so I will. Thanks.
thousand arrows would better as if you're setup, then the extra 10 power doesn't matter anyway. It could come in handy for dealing with the occasional celsteela or if they switch in a triage ray or something on the EQ. Which diamond storm might still be better as they'll have extra priority anyways.
 
With all the talk of of Deo-S needing a drop, felt like sharing a set to better show what role it can do. As a (suicide) lead, it faces too much competition with stuff that can actually do some damage, like Mewtwo, Phero, Bee, Aerodactyl, etc. Or Zera, who's paralysis immune. It's too predictable and the hazards will just magically go away a few turns after Deo-S goes down.

As much as I "big talk" about it, it's not a great mon, but it definitely has its uses. I'll admit I don't have it on any modern teams, currently (not tried building with it/updating its teams since the P.Don and Gengarite bans), but I don't have many modernized teams anyway since... work + college. Anyway, the set (template).


Deoxys-Speed @ Lagging Tail
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Careful / Impish / Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Trick
- U-Turn
- Destiny Bond / Filler
- Filler


You can lead with this set if you expect your opponent to lead offensively. Don't go into it if you expect Imposter though since this set is a bit of a bluff set. If you wind up Tricking to Imposter, I recommend having a Z-Crystal carrying partner, or Primaldon, so you can switch to it to block Trick. Anyway, you otherwise slow pivot to this and do a little scouting, if you can, before firing Trick.

People expect Deo-S to be fast and Prankster Lagging Tail bluffs it pretty well as your status moves will still go first the majority of the time. It also keeps Deo from being dead weight if it gets paralyzed or the opponent brings speed control like Sticky Web, Tail Wind, or Trick Room. While you have Lagging Tail, Deo-S also wins all slow pivot races. This pairs really well with Destiny Bond if your bluff hasn't been revealed yet as, if Deo-S is sufficiently damaged, you can Destiny Bond and then U-Turn and pick up a sacrificial KO when their Registeel U-Turns faster and KOs you. (You can jigger with your EVs, IVs, and nature to better achieve this if desired.) If you're playing against a Stall team, this will be the ideal objective.

Otherwise, the other main purpose of the set is to find something offensive, the faster or more Shell Smashery, the better, and Trick it. Even if they've managed to boost their speed to over 9000, Prankster will ensure you get the Lagging Tail off to them. At which point, they will always move last and will be easy prey to deal with at your leisure. Once the Lagging Tail is gone, if Deo-S is still alive, it can Destiny Bond another offensive threat if the opportunity presents itself or steal another Pokemon's item. Or it can leverage whatever your filler slots are, whether those be status, hazards, hazard removal, Taunt, or what have you.

The set needs slow pivots to function safely and also needs teammates who are good at scouting, as Deo has cardboard thin defenses and is allergic to Knock Off itself. It also really does not want Imposter to come in on it to give away what its up to, although trading a Lagging Tail for their Eviolite is still a good play, so long as you can stop them from giving it back. It also does not play well with teams running Knock Off (which is... a lot of them) or Trick, since you might accidentally remove your Lagging Tail you worked so hard to give to their Mewtwo. This set also doesn't check specific threats at all, and instead is a very general check, so it needs teammates who have enough coverage to take care of themselves, which limits your core options to a degree. You also don't have Mold Breaker, so, depending on your move picks, you might need some way to deal with or avoid Magic Bounce. Dark-types are also problematic too since... Prankster.

But in general, ideal plays, if you can pull them off, are...

Vs Stall or teams where their attackers are non-threatening: go for a Lagging Tail sacrificial Destiny Bond or harass with Filler moves
Vs Balanced: Lagging Tail their offensive mon and then harass with your Filler move(s)
Vs Offense: Lagging Tail one attacker and then Destiny Bond a second to effectively 2 for 1 trade on Deo-S.
 

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