BH Balanced Hackmons

anaconja

long day at job
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
To build on loser's post, I'd like to advise that new users refrain from posting their teams to rate in this thread, as it clogs it up and is generally unappealing for more experienced users. There are plenty of places to have your teams rated, whether that be through the OM room, the OM Discord, or signing up for the OM Tutoring program for specialized training. This way, the thread can focus more on metagame discussion rather than teamrating, which can be accomplished quickly with the promptness of live chats instead of the slowness and permanence of the forum.
 
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Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Thanks for the reply

Hypercam (Gengar-Mega) (M) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Entrainment
- Quiver Dance
- Psystrike
- Judgment

009 Sound System (Regigigas) (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Spectral Thief

N-Word (Deoxys-Attack) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Dazzling
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Reversal
- Moongeist Beam

Resonance (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Blue Flare
- Tail Glow

Setup this (Aegislash) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Haze
- Milk Drink
- Parting Shot
- Destiny Bond

Im A Dingy (Kyurem-Black) (M) @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Icicle Spear
- Bone Rush
- Sunsteel Strike


is it better now?



nah i don't like that idea but thanks anyways ;)
Also, beyond the chats, if you want a more thorough analysis (especially as multiple people posting in chats can be hard to track if people’s comments scroll up text like a reverse waterfall), you could post here: RATE MY TEAM (RMT) FORUM
After you read the: RMT Rules

I like these because chats can feel too live, while forums can allow you to get feedback for multiple days in a row.

The good thing about the RMT for Other Metagames, in comparison to OU, is that each metagame has a different color tag, and is somewhat less popular, which means that a day later your RMT will still be on the front page, and you won’t have to bump up your thread as often.
 
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Also, beyond the chats, if you want a more thorough analysis (especially as multiple people posting in chats can be hard to track if people’s comments scroll up text like a reverse waterfall), you could post here: RATE MY TEAM (RMT) FORUM
After you read the: RMT Rules

I like these because chats can feel too live, while forums can allow you to get feedback for multiple days in a row.

The good thing about the RMT for Other Metagames, in comparison to OU, is that each metagame has a different color tag, and is somewhat less popular, which means that a day later your RMT will still be on the front page, and you won’t have to bump as often.
Thanks mate! and i actually liked the M-Gyarados so thanks for that too
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
Thanks mate! and i actually liked the M-Gyarados so thanks for that too
I edited this in my last post but see you just responded so I will add this here so you can see the new information:
Lastly, here is how you use [“hide] insert text here [/hide”] tags.
Remove the “” and you have yourself a personally coded post!

Other tags you can use include [“quote] tags [/quote”]

Lastly, some advice for teambuilding that no one seems to mention...
Check out some replays:

Replay Search Function

Look at some top users on the Ladder of this metagame and watch what kinds of teams they come up with Heavy Offense, Stall (I.e. Hazards and Status effects like Toxic Spikes), Balanced (1-2 offensive threats, 1-2 checks to Imposter/common things, 1-2 Defensive pivots to help the offensive threats set up/clear hazards), etc.

Here is a Ladder ranking: Ladder / Leaderboard of BH

Watch their strategies (they even discuss it during some of their battles), if you see them online, watch their live battles and maybe when the finish PM with questions on why they built a team that way, or what reasoning they used during a key turn.

Overall, treat it like a map, the destination is to improve yourself and reach the ladder. The ship you sail is your strategy for the team, and if any turbulence comes during your journey (such as a pattern in how opponents beat your team), adjust your strategy, and take a few turns to get to the big treasure. What is the big treasure? The treasure is creating the most successful team you can with the tools to get there in the RMT reviews to gain key advice from top players, watching replays to learn how and why things are used/not used, and focusing on what works.

Most people feel overwhelmed because they don’t know what to add, I would argue that knowing what to remove is most important, afterall you can only fit so much, so don’t be afraid to remove what doesn’t work for your team.

Cheers!

Also, keep in perspective that it does take time to provide explanations, type out posts, etc. so ensure that whenever someone helps that their input, good or bad is acknowledged. I can see you are thorough with your gratitude, but just something to keep in perspective as you ask new people for insight. ;)
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
PLAYING TO WIN (BH EDITION): PART 2

to find the other part(s), go to the about section under my profile
3) Discipline
Sun Tzu speaks about the strict discipline of soldiers in a number of his chapters. He explains that a clear and enforced system of penalties and rewards is imperative in the military. In the chaos of battle, men are put under immense strain both physically and emotionally, and in order for them to survive and for the greater purpose to be served, they must reflexively follow orders. The officers must trust the men to carry out orders and the men must trust the officers to issue good orders. Likewise, you must be able to trust your body to carry out your mind’s orders.

Technical Skill
In the chaos of battle, you will only be able to execute difficult maneuvers if they have become second nature and practiced by rote. The more moves and sequences that can be incorporated into your muscle memory, the more attention you can pay to the strategic tasks at hand, rather than being distracted by the mechanics of execution. This applies more to some games than others, of course. Players of tennis or fighting games need to heed this advice more than players of BH.
The moment you have to think about juggling is the moment you drop the balls.
—Old juggling proverb
Some players have far more aptitude for discipline in execution than others. I’m not sure whether all players have the potential to reach the same level of precision, but some players require radically less practice to get there. Some would call this “skill.” Beware that “skill” takes many forms and this is only one, and not even the most important one, though it does rank highly. The primary skills of competitive games—the ability to know the mind of the opponent and the relative value of pieces in a game—are elusive. It’s hard to even detect these skills in others when they are occurring right in front of your face. But skill at execution is clear to all. Either a player can flawlessly execute a difficult series of moves or he cannot. Because of the ease of identifying this type of skill, I think it receives a bit too much emphasis, and I say that not just because I am notoriously lacking at it.

Execution is so important (beyond the obvious reasons) because it’s more of a sustainable advantage than knowledge. In today’s world, information flow about game tactics is very high, so new “secrets” do not remain secret long. The players who are best at execution—the “technicians”—will refine these innovations and improve upon them. Gaining knowledge is significantly easier than gaining more skill at execution—an endeavor that can take years of muscle memory conditioning.

[Editor's note: Physical technical skill is obviously not a huge thing in BH, because the complex button-pressing patterns seen in fighting games are absent from the game. There might be something to be said concerning this section, but overall it shouldn't be much of note in the context of BH.]

Mental Toughness
Discipline is more than just skill at execution. There is also mental discipline: the ability to stay focused and conserve your limited resources of concentration, tenacity, alertness, and physical strength. Physical discipline is a factor, as it can determine how much endurance or alertness you have to work with in the first place, but mental discipline is what lets you stretch your resources as far as possible. You must create a situation for yourself that allows you to be just as fanatical about winning at the end of a tournament as at the beginning.

Chess master and author Edward Lasker had this to say about chess tournaments in his book Chess for Fun and Chess for Blood:
I do not think there is any other mental strain comparable to the exertion to which a tournament game subjects the Chess master. Working at what seemed to me the most difficult mathematical problems has never exhausted me nearly as much as playing in a Chess tournament; and of all intellectual applications mathematical work is surely the hardest. That is why physical fitness is a most important factor in tournament Chess and why young players, whose brains can stand the poisons of fatigue much longer than those of older players, have a great advantage.
Seth Killian expressed these ideas terrifically in an article about Street Fighter tournaments, reprinted and edited here:
Winning a tournament requires more than just strategy and execution. It requires being able to look past all the distractions. It requires being able to grit your teeth and come back from what looks like an insurmountable lead. It’s being able to consistently stay on top of your game, and face down the best players in the country, and that takes mental toughness. In analyzing what tournaments (rather than just “winning”) require, this is almost invariably overlooked by scrubs—it’s not something that you can “see” on a video, and it’s often the missing ingredient that keeps otherwise excellent players from having any real shot at winning when it counts. Maintaining your focus is essential. Here are a few of the most common pitfalls:
That “Not So Fresh” Feeling
Life is almost tailor-made to sap your strength. You have obligations. You’re tense. Good teams are hard to think of on the spot. You need a good idea to spark a team. You can lose your drive for the game. The ladder sucks. And you’ve got a hard deadline by which you need to get your A-game together.
Every hardcore player has, at some point, felt that deep sense of burnout you get from playing a little (or a lot) too long. It’s the BH equivalent of futilely reading the same sentence over and over again after studying too much. You slip into a minor coma, unable to do anything but the same stupid, ineffective thing you did two seconds before (“I know! I’ll stay in predicting the double!” . . . eats vicious attack as opponent reads him like a large-print book for the elderly). This is actually a non-minor problem for a lot of intermediate players—when you aren't making much progress in the game, you’re seized by the urge to “prove” (to yourself? to anyone watching? god knows . . .) that you CAN make the predict (as if anyone really doubted it), and you jump at the first opportunity to do it. It’s like you’ve got some ridiculous “rep” that you have to “defend” (your rep as a player so good, he’s actually able to get one prediction right on command!). So you go for a Close Combat on MMX, and get a Giratina switch-in or whatever—you’d be AMAZED at how many otherwise smart, competent players will IMMEDIATELY try ANOTHER Close Combat. It’s as though they’ve deviated from the mental script they had of how the match was supposed to look, and can’t proceed until they get that part “right” (the part where they were supposed to hit Close Combat). I can’t tell you how many free Spectral Thief KOs just looking for this has netted me over the years. If you thought about it for even half a second, you’d realize this was a dumb play, but that’s exactly what you don’t do when you’re burned out.
This may sound stupid to the uninitiated, but over the course of a tournament, not having been forced to think about your early-round wins can be a big advantage as you progress. If you don’t have to think to win, you can stay loose, and fresh, and out of danger. Mental fatigue is a very real, though often overlooked danger. A lot of people can get tilted vs an early round opponent in BH Open or Seasonal because of this.
Here’s one way to help alleviate the fatigue: develop a basic technique for winning. Against players who aren’t capable of overcoming your little algorithm, you can virtually play on autopilot. Beating someone “out of your book” is usually done most easily with stall teams (a decently common choice of strong players), but can be done in lots of ways. If you can implement a simple, effective technique like this, weak early-round opponents will spend all their time worrying about just getting past that (breaking your stall team, or looking for an effective anti-setup to stop your PH Regigigas from clicking Shift Gear for the 43rd time in a row). They’re vastly more likely to do something stupid just trying to get their sweepers in (which is the only thing that counts). This is very nice, if you can manage it.
Please note: if you are a scrub, this technique is not for you. It requires not only having a gameplan but also having a secondary, simpler (yet still effective) gameplan. Some people use different teams to accomplish this earlier on. This not only lets you play on “autopilot” but also hides the best techniques of your more powerful teams until necessary. It’s also a perfect example of why you don’t necessarily want to be flashy. If you want to win “by any means necessary,” you first have to realize exactly what IS necessary. If you have some stupid team that’s killing the opponent, don’t bother doing anything else (“if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”). This also has the added bonus of driving people absolutely nuts. Someone getting beat by a single, repetitive tactic usually gets really angry and short circuits, causing them to play even worse, making more mistakes, getting angrier, and so on. A vicious spiral.
Not only does this help you to preserve brainpower, it also minimizes the chances of anything “traumatic” happening that might haunt you later. This is another major pitfall for players at every level: getting stuck in the past. They get hung up on something that’s already happened, mentally focusing on it, instead of the match at hand (“How could I have been so stupid?”). Bad idea. You’re taking a mistake (which is already bad) and making it even worse by focusing on it. This is not going to help you, and no one else is impressed by your willingness to yell at yourself. For instance, when I’m playing against balance as SF MMY, and I finally bait them into letting it in when it can get a KO on any mon, NOTHING frustrates me more than letting the Prankster Destiny Bond user switch in without KOing it. They’ve handed me the game on a platter, and I didn’t take it. In cases where this has happened, even if the match is still close, I used to almost always throw it away entirely, disgusted with myself, feeling like “If I can’t even predict the Prankster switch-in, I don’t deserve to win anyway.” Dumb. The same thing goes for when you pull some lucky win out of your butt. Don’t sit around punishing yourself for not having earned it (“I only won because he lost a speed tie”). If you believe you don’t “deserve” to have advanced, you’re likely to prove it by losing the next match, stuck in the past. Best play is to laugh it off, thank/curse the deity of your choice, and move on. Luck (or the simple failure of your opponent to execute) is a real part of every tournament. Be happy when it goes your way.
The Future is Now
Stuck in the past is not where you want to be. Where else don’t you want to be? Major pitfall #3: Worrying about the future. While this probably isn’t something that you’d think about if you’ve never been to a tournament, once you’re there, it’s easy to get preoccupied.
Not worrying about the future means not fretting about which bracket you’re in, with who (something people seem to obsess over when they get there, and always a major cause of traffic around the organizing table). This will help avoid fruitless focus on the enormity of your task. If Luke had stopped to think about what he was really up against, he never would have left Tatooine. Sure, you may be freaked that GL Volkner is your opponent, but if you spend energy worrying about it, you’re handing him a big advantage before the match even starts. Lots of people psych themselves completely out. While it’s true that these players have their reputations for good reasons, it isn’t true that they’ve got some kind of magic powers, or are going to pull out some secret team that wins instantaneously (actually, even if that were true, worrying about it would still only make things worse). Concentrate on the match you’re playing, and beyond that, your next opponent at most. If you’re new to tournaments, or are merely guilty of the sin of not knowing every player’s history and profile, it may be worth your time to ask around a little. Knowing that Scrub#212 plays stall, stall, and nothing but stall may be very helpful, especially when choosing your initial team. Advanced Tip #2: Try to have (at least potentially) alternate teams/playstyles—avoid being a one-trick pony, unless you are a mighty, terrifying, Pony of Death. This will prevent your opponent from being able to select a team who they wouldn’t have otherwise picked, but who beats your only team “for free.”
Matchups aside, however, you should always (almost always, anyway) pick the teams you’re most comfortable with. I didn’t start playing my semi-stall because I thought it was #1 (it isn’t even close, not in the modern meta anyway)—I picked it because I felt comfortable with it. Even if it may open you up to a slight mismatch, you want maximum execution, and playing with “your” team is the easiest way to make that happen. Don’t rely on someone else’s “rankings” to decide your team choices for you. Just because the theorists on www.smogon.com have decided that “X beats Y” doesn’t mean you can’t win (note: this does not mean I think rankings are worthless—quite the contrary. It’s just pointing out that rankings assume evenly matched players, playing at full capacity, which is (obviously) not what you get in every tournament match. Duh.). Playing “your” team also vastly decreases your chance of being paralyzed when you’re put into unfamiliar situations—something that top players are good at doing to you. You don’t want to have to stop and think about which technique is going to get you out of this one; you want to know reflexively, automatically. The hesitation that anything else brings on will cost you.
[Editor's note: we need more theorists here. we need a BH TEAMS VR]
To maintain mental toughness, you want to stay fresh, be in the moment, and stick with what you know. Focus on your match, and you can hold on to the motivation required to win.
—Seth “s-kill” Killian

4) Attacking by Fire
Those who use fire as an aid to the attack show intelligence; those who use water as an aid to the attack gain an accession of strength. By means of water, an enemy may be intercepted, but not robbed of all his belongings.
—Sun Tzu, The Art of War
Sun Tzu spoke of using fire against the enemy, but he was driving at a fundamental tactic: attacking in parallel. One can set fire to an enemy building to drive him out into an ambush. One can set fire to one side of an enemy camp while taking up positions on the other side, again driving the enemy into an ambush. In all cases, the fire is basically used as an extra force of attackers. The fire cannot be reasoned with or bargained with or ignored. The fire has no mercy. While it serves the same function as a band of men would (to attack the enemy and drive him to action), the fire requires no manpower once it is started. It also finds its way inside a barracks without risking the lives of a squad.

Because the fire acts independently, it allows a given group of men to apply more attacking force than would otherwise be possible. Because fire can act as a barrier, it can allow a single group of men to attack from two sides at once without halving their numbers. The lesson is that attacking two times at once is deadly effective.

This concept has several applications in BH. For example, hazards like Spikes and Toxic Spikes can punish the opponent for switching out. If you're able to get in a strong breaker while these hazards are up, it can become incredibly dangerous and break through foes it would otherwise get walled by (like Specs Xurkitree vs. RegenVest Giratina). Additionally, the uncommon but scary Pokemon Doom Desire Dialga and Future Sight Mega Mewtwo Y can get an attack in the air and switch to another wallbreaker or even a decently strong wall like Griseous Orb Giratina to effectively get two hits at once. This strategy can overall be great at breaking down walls.

Another way you can use this concept in BH is in tournament preparation in the teambuilding stage. For example, a solid team that can be used to break down early-round tournament opponents and ladder players could still be a threat to prepare for at a higher level, even though the player might not necessarily bring it. Thus, the opponent is forced to build a team that has good options to deal with the strong team, but if they are too predictable the player can easily win by bringing a different team. It doesn't necessarily have to be a counter-counter-team (for example, bringing many anti-Gengar options to cover the original Gengar-weak team); the simple presence of the strong team can limit the opponent's options and leave them going into the game with a relatively weak team.

5) Divide and Conquer
Introducing Zileas
Zileas wrote a great deal about how to divide and conquer the enemy and to concentrate firepower—and so did Sun Tzu.

Zileas was talking about StarCraft and Sun Tzu was talking actual war, but since real-time strategy games are (arguably) simulations of actual war, it’s not surprising that great minds thought alike here. What’s interesting is that while Sun Tzu wrote mostly about the large, macro scale, Zileas wrote about the very same concepts on the small, micro scale. Ironically, Zileas made his fame in the StarCraft world by developing and writing about his “new school” approach to the game where he focused on dividing and conquering and concentrating firepower on the micro level, rather than the “old school” approach of concentrating on the macro level. In case you missed the irony, it’s that the old school that Zileas argued against was just another interpretation of the very same concepts his own school was based on, all straight from The Art of War.

On the most zoomed out level, Sun Tzu tells us when to attack, based on the sheer size of the armies involved:
It is the rule in war: If our forces are ten to the enemy’s one, to surround him; if five to one, to attack him; if twice as numerous, to divide our army into two, one to meet the enemy in front, and one to fall upon his rear; if he replies to the frontal attack, he may be crushed from behind; if to the rearward attack, he may be crushed in front.
If equally matched, we can offer battle; if slightly inferior in numbers, we can avoid the enemy; if quite unequal in every way, we can flee from him. Though an obstinate fight may be made by a small force, in the end it must be captured by the larger force.
On the most zoomed out level, Zileas tells us when (in StarCraft) we are losing:
If your kill ratio multiplied by the ratio of your production to their production is less than 1, you are losing. If their economy is gaining speed, and yours is stationary and this number is close to but over 1, you are still probably losing. When I say kill ratio I do not mean units killed/units lost; I mean resources killed/resources lost both in terms of unit production, miscellaneous upkeep costs (scarabs) and building production/loss.
That last Zileas quote is pretty mystifying, but if you read it about twenty times, you might find some deep StarCraft insights!

Mismatched Forces
One of Sun Tzu’s main points is to attack an inferior force with a superior one. Even if both armies are of the same size and power, this can easily be done by looking at smaller pieces of the whole. If the enemy only defends one piece of his empire—and we know this—then the rest of his empire is wide open. We can send but a fraction of our troops to dismantle any number of his undefended spots. The more spots he defends, the weaker each spot becomes. If he defends all ten of his outposts equally and we concentrate the attack of but half our army at one spot, we outnumber him five to one! We have concentrated our firepower, while the enemy’s has been divided and weakened.

All of this rests upon the shoulders of secrecy and reconnaissance. Without these, Sun Tzu’s method of divide and conquer would not be possible.

The spot where we intend to fight must not be made known, for then the enemy will have to prepare against a possible attack at several different points; and his forces being thus distributed in many directions, the numbers we shall have to face at any given point will be proportionately few.
Numerical weakness comes from having to prepare against possible attacks; numerical strength from compelling our adversary to make these preparations against us. Knowing the place and time of the coming battle, we may concentrate from the greatest distances in order to fight. But if neither time nor place be known, then the left wing will be impotent to succor the right, the right equally impotent to succor the left, the van unable to relieve the rear, or the rear to support the van.
So Sun Tzu tells us to keep our own positions and intentions secret. He tells us to discover the positions and intentions of the enemy. Through this we can concentrate our firepower on the enemy’s weakest points, even at the expense of our own defense; if our weak points are secret from the enemy, he will not know where to attack and he will likely end up dividing his own forces. Our divided enemy thus conquers himself as he cannot hope to defend against our entire concentrated army with just a fraction of his own.

[Editor's note: The upcoming section is a bit long, doesn't really pertain to BH, and is hard to apply to it. I wanted to cut some of it out, but it seemed like a good middle ground between the more theoretical Art of War and the practical BH. However, StarCraft has a lot of things that are significantly different from BH, like concentration of firepower and micromanagement. It's a good read, but you can scroll through it if you like.]

StarCraft: The “Old School”
Sun Tzu’s ways are the ways of the best StarCraft players in what Zileas calls the “old school.” These players strive to build a strong economy to finance overwhelming hordes of units. When they outnumber the enemy ten to one, they surround; five to one, they attack, you get the idea. Individual battles matter little to these players, since it’s more important to build a large mobile force capable of attacking the opponent’s weak spots.

Most of these players come from the days of Warcraft 2, StarCraft’s predecessor. Warcraft’s interface and units didn’t allow players to gain much benefit from micromanaging individual battles. Warcraft’s units were more homogeneous, meaning you didn’t see kill ratios of 50:1 like Templars and Reavers are capable of in StarCraft. In short, macromanagement was the only way to go. Build a large army. Divide the enemy’s army. Concentrate the firepower of your army.

StarCraft: The “New School”
And then there was Zileas. He came along and pointed out the amazing effects micromanagement of individual battles can have in StarCraft, and he preached the revolutionary ideas of divide and conquer and concentration of firepower—on the small scale, that is.

Lesson 1: Shift queue to concentrate firepower. When enemy forces engage, say ten marines versus ten marines, they will fire at each other in a mostly random distribution, so units will only start dying toward the end of the battle. The better player will select all his marines and concentrate their firepower on a single enemy marine, then (hold the shift key to) queue the next command to concentrate firepower on the second enemy marine, and so forth. All ten of the first player’s marines will kill one of the enemy’s units right away, reducing his firepower. The ten marines will then automatically (through shift queuing) concentrate their fire on the next enemy unit, then the next one, and so on. The enemy is dividing his own fire but the better player concentrates it. If you use this technique but your opponent doesn’t, you’ll probably end the fight with four marines left when he is down to none.

Lesson 2: Use formation to concentrate firepower. When two enemy forces engage, say ten marines versus ten marines, formation can be everything. If one player marches his single file line of marines into a horizontal line of enemy marines, the horizontal line formation will be able to concentrate its fire on the first marine in the single file line, then the second, and so on. The last marines in the single file line won’t even be close enough to fire until all their friends are dead. Even better than a horizontal line is “shallow encirclement,” a crescent-shaped formation that maximizes the firepower one can apply to a point.

Lesson 3: Use choke points (narrow passes) to divide the enemy’s units. When a large enemy force must pass through a narrow choke point (either naturally created by terrain or artificially created by your buildings) he is dividing his own force for you. You can concentrate your firepower on each unit as it passes by.

There are more lessons, but his point is to focus on the concentration of firepower on the small scale of an individual battle. I cannot leave out Zileas’s most extreme and signature use of concentration of firepower: his “Doom Drop.”

Zileas is known for playing the Protoss race, the race smallest in numbers and most powerful in punch. Notice that they are already concentrated before he even got a hold of them. A so-called Doom Drop is when you fill about four shuttles (flying transports that carry other units) with amazingly powerful Protoss attack units such as Reavers, Templars, and Archons. (Heavily armored air units (Scouts) must sometimes accompany the shuttles.) This superabundance of force—this concentration of firepower—is enough to overwhelm nearly anything so long as it is applied instantly at a single point. When one Archon, three Reavers, four Zealots, and three Templars suddenly appear in the middle of your base, the sheer force of it all applied to your surely badly positioned units is usually too much.

Even more devastating is what Zileas calls his “Extra Crispy with Slaw” version of the Doom Drop, where he uses hallucinated (illusionary) units to draw fire. Flying four shuttles into an enemy base is not an easy task, because they’ll probably be shot down by whatever anti-air happens to be scattered about. Four Shuttles accompanied by, say, five Scouts is another matter. Now the anti-air fire has been divided among more targets. Better still if all these targets are accompanied by, say, ten illusionary Scouts. The illusions can’t attack, but they draw enemy fire giving the real units more time to act. In effect, the illusions divide and conquer the enemy’s anti-air fire. Deception at its best.

Micro and Macro
Why not apply Sun Tzu’s teachings of divide and conquer and concentration of firepower on the large scale as well as the small? Must one choose one over the other? The answer in StarCraft, realistically, is yes. One only has so much attention that must be divided between micro Extra Crispy with Slaw Doom Drops and macro economy horde-building.

The Third Resource: Concentration
Zileas explains:
Minerals and Gas are the resources that most players think in terms of. Although these are central to the game, you also need to think in terms of concentration. I define concentration as the time that a player has to spend focusing on a task during the game. Expanding is a high concentration task, especially if you are Protoss. Attacking certainly has a high concentration level, and the more concentration you put into an attack, the higher the effect. Even scouting carries a high associated cost. One big difference between ‘someone who is really good’ and someone who is #1 is knowing when you need to watch a battle and when you don’t, and recognizing that your opponent also has a finite amount of concentration to draw from. There are a number of techniques for minimizing concentration costs (i.e. hot-keying buildings, using magic spell hot keys, queuing attacks, etc.), but everything you do has some intangible concentration cost. I would argue that as you get better at StarCraft, you go into a match with a larger innate concentration income/second. It is very possible when doing multiple coordinated attacks at different locations to use your superior concentration reserve (if you have it) to decimate an enemy who is tied with you in terms of unit control and tangible resources. Although I’m sorry to say this, concentration is basically talent. Playing a lot of games slowly raises it, but it’s something some people have a lot of and some people don’t. It’s kinda like fast sprint ability in running: you can train up and become a great long distance runner, but for sprinting, there’s always that talent based barrier—you can slowly improve it, but everyone has a limit. I’m sure that someone will push me off #1 who has more innate talent, along with the same skills.
The best way to train concentration is to play 2 on 1s and 3 on 1s (multiple opponents vs. you). I can often pull 3 on 1s, and certainly 2 on 1s, and really the only reason I can do this is my ability to multitask. Also, team melee is an interesting game as it involves doubled concentration reserves on both sides . . . well almost doubled since its not one mind thinking at once and they have to communicate.
[Editor's note: Concentration isn't as strictly required for BH compared to StarCraft (and the "talent gap" discussed here doesn't really apply, thankfully), but it could dictate things like the ability to not choke from an advantageous position. Training it using two or three ladder games at once is interesting food for thought. Another interesting thing to think about is how Zileas innovated the widespread use of micromanagement in StarCraft, when it has not yet been done in BH. Perhaps there is greater potential for micromanagement in this tier, and we just haven't had someone to introduce it yet. How do you think micromanagement could be used/is already being used in BH?]

Whether you, as a player, spend your concentration resources on the large scale or the small depends on which game is at hand and your personal style. In either case, the same principles are at work. On one level or another, thou shalt concentrate thy fire and divide and conquer thine enemy!

i've done 5 of the 9 art of war chapters so far, and i want to cover a few more things beyond that, specifically the playstyles, but probably not the things beyond that; it gets back into the territory of the example game not being too much of a factor in the content. hopefully you guys are enjoying this
 

DarkBeserker

Banned deucer.
PLAYING TO WIN (BH EDITION): PART 2

to find the other part(s), go to the about section under my profile
3) Discipline
Sun Tzu speaks about the strict discipline of soldiers in a number of his chapters. He explains that a clear and enforced system of penalties and rewards is imperative in the military. In the chaos of battle, men are put under immense strain both physically and emotionally, and in order for them to survive and for the greater purpose to be served, they must reflexively follow orders. The officers must trust the men to carry out orders and the men must trust the officers to issue good orders. Likewise, you must be able to trust your body to carry out your mind’s orders.

Technical Skill
In the chaos of battle, you will only be able to execute difficult maneuvers if they have become second nature and practiced by rote. The more moves and sequences that can be incorporated into your muscle memory, the more attention you can pay to the strategic tasks at hand, rather than being distracted by the mechanics of execution. This applies more to some games than others, of course. Players of tennis or fighting games need to heed this advice more than players of BH.

Some players have far more aptitude for discipline in execution than others. I’m not sure whether all players have the potential to reach the same level of precision, but some players require radically less practice to get there. Some would call this “skill.” Beware that “skill” takes many forms and this is only one, and not even the most important one, though it does rank highly. The primary skills of competitive games—the ability to know the mind of the opponent and the relative value of pieces in a game—are elusive. It’s hard to even detect these skills in others when they are occurring right in front of your face. But skill at execution is clear to all. Either a player can flawlessly execute a difficult series of moves or he cannot. Because of the ease of identifying this type of skill, I think it receives a bit too much emphasis, and I say that not just because I am notoriously lacking at it.

Execution is so important (beyond the obvious reasons) because it’s more of a sustainable advantage than knowledge. In today’s world, information flow about game tactics is very high, so new “secrets” do not remain secret long. The players who are best at execution—the “technicians”—will refine these innovations and improve upon them. Gaining knowledge is significantly easier than gaining more skill at execution—an endeavor that can take years of muscle memory conditioning.

[Editor's note: Physical technical skill is obviously not a huge thing in BH, because the complex button-pressing patterns seen in fighting games are absent from the game. There might be something to be said concerning this section, but overall it shouldn't be much of note in the context of BH.]

Mental Toughness
Discipline is more than just skill at execution. There is also mental discipline: the ability to stay focused and conserve your limited resources of concentration, tenacity, alertness, and physical strength. Physical discipline is a factor, as it can determine how much endurance or alertness you have to work with in the first place, but mental discipline is what lets you stretch your resources as far as possible. You must create a situation for yourself that allows you to be just as fanatical about winning at the end of a tournament as at the beginning.


Seth Killian expressed these ideas terrifically in an article about Street Fighter tournaments, reprinted and edited here:










[Editor's note: we need more theorists here. we need a BH TEAMS VR]

4) Attacking by Fire

Sun Tzu spoke of using fire against the enemy, but he was driving at a fundamental tactic: attacking in parallel. One can set fire to an enemy building to drive him out into an ambush. One can set fire to one side of an enemy camp while taking up positions on the other side, again driving the enemy into an ambush. In all cases, the fire is basically used as an extra force of attackers. The fire cannot be reasoned with or bargained with or ignored. The fire has no mercy. While it serves the same function as a band of men would (to attack the enemy and drive him to action), the fire requires no manpower once it is started. It also finds its way inside a barracks without risking the lives of a squad.

Because the fire acts independently, it allows a given group of men to apply more attacking force than would otherwise be possible. Because fire can act as a barrier, it can allow a single group of men to attack from two sides at once without halving their numbers. The lesson is that attacking two times at once is deadly effective.

This concept has several applications in BH. For example, hazards like Spikes and Toxic Spikes can punish the opponent for switching out. If you're able to get in a strong breaker while these hazards are up, it can become incredibly dangerous and break through foes it would otherwise get walled by (like Specs Xurkitree vs. RegenVest Giratina). Additionally, the uncommon but scary Pokemon Doom Desire Dialga and Future Sight Mega Mewtwo Y can get an attack in the air and switch to another wallbreaker or even a decently strong wall like Griseous Orb Giratina to effectively get two hits at once. This strategy can overall be great at breaking down walls.

Another way you can use this concept in BH is in tournament preparation in the teambuilding stage. For example, a solid team that can be used to break down early-round tournament opponents and ladder players could still be a threat to prepare for at a higher level, even though the player might not necessarily bring it. Thus, the opponent is forced to build a team that has good options to deal with the strong team, but if they are too predictable the player can easily win by bringing a different team. It doesn't necessarily have to be a counter-counter-team (for example, bringing many anti-Gengar options to cover the original Gengar-weak team); the simple presence of the strong team can limit the opponent's options and leave them going into the game with a relatively weak team.

5) Divide and Conquer
Introducing Zileas
Zileas wrote a great deal about how to divide and conquer the enemy and to concentrate firepower—and so did Sun Tzu.

Zileas was talking about StarCraft and Sun Tzu was talking actual war, but since real-time strategy games are (arguably) simulations of actual war, it’s not surprising that great minds thought alike here. What’s interesting is that while Sun Tzu wrote mostly about the large, macro scale, Zileas wrote about the very same concepts on the small, micro scale. Ironically, Zileas made his fame in the StarCraft world by developing and writing about his “new school” approach to the game where he focused on dividing and conquering and concentrating firepower on the micro level, rather than the “old school” approach of concentrating on the macro level. In case you missed the irony, it’s that the old school that Zileas argued against was just another interpretation of the very same concepts his own school was based on, all straight from The Art of War.

On the most zoomed out level, Sun Tzu tells us when to attack, based on the sheer size of the armies involved:

On the most zoomed out level, Zileas tells us when (in StarCraft) we are losing:

That last Zileas quote is pretty mystifying, but if you read it about twenty times, you might find some deep StarCraft insights!

Mismatched Forces
One of Sun Tzu’s main points is to attack an inferior force with a superior one. Even if both armies are of the same size and power, this can easily be done by looking at smaller pieces of the whole. If the enemy only defends one piece of his empire—and we know this—then the rest of his empire is wide open. We can send but a fraction of our troops to dismantle any number of his undefended spots. The more spots he defends, the weaker each spot becomes. If he defends all ten of his outposts equally and we concentrate the attack of but half our army at one spot, we outnumber him five to one! We have concentrated our firepower, while the enemy’s has been divided and weakened.

All of this rests upon the shoulders of secrecy and reconnaissance. Without these, Sun Tzu’s method of divide and conquer would not be possible.


So Sun Tzu tells us to keep our own positions and intentions secret. He tells us to discover the positions and intentions of the enemy. Through this we can concentrate our firepower on the enemy’s weakest points, even at the expense of our own defense; if our weak points are secret from the enemy, he will not know where to attack and he will likely end up dividing his own forces. Our divided enemy thus conquers himself as he cannot hope to defend against our entire concentrated army with just a fraction of his own.

[Editor's note: The upcoming section is a bit long, doesn't really pertain to BH, and is hard to apply to it. I wanted to cut some of it out, but it seemed like a good middle ground between the more theoretical Art of War and the practical BH. However, StarCraft has a lot of things that are significantly different from BH, like concentration of firepower and micromanagement. It's a good read, but you can scroll through it if you like.]

StarCraft: The “Old School”
Sun Tzu’s ways are the ways of the best StarCraft players in what Zileas calls the “old school.” These players strive to build a strong economy to finance overwhelming hordes of units. When they outnumber the enemy ten to one, they surround; five to one, they attack, you get the idea. Individual battles matter little to these players, since it’s more important to build a large mobile force capable of attacking the opponent’s weak spots.

Most of these players come from the days of Warcraft 2, StarCraft’s predecessor. Warcraft’s interface and units didn’t allow players to gain much benefit from micromanaging individual battles. Warcraft’s units were more homogeneous, meaning you didn’t see kill ratios of 50:1 like Templars and Reavers are capable of in StarCraft. In short, macromanagement was the only way to go. Build a large army. Divide the enemy’s army. Concentrate the firepower of your army.

StarCraft: The “New School”
And then there was Zileas. He came along and pointed out the amazing effects micromanagement of individual battles can have in StarCraft, and he preached the revolutionary ideas of divide and conquer and concentration of firepower—on the small scale, that is.

Lesson 1: Shift queue to concentrate firepower. When enemy forces engage, say ten marines versus ten marines, they will fire at each other in a mostly random distribution, so units will only start dying toward the end of the battle. The better player will select all his marines and concentrate their firepower on a single enemy marine, then (hold the shift key to) queue the next command to concentrate firepower on the second enemy marine, and so forth. All ten of the first player’s marines will kill one of the enemy’s units right away, reducing his firepower. The ten marines will then automatically (through shift queuing) concentrate their fire on the next enemy unit, then the next one, and so on. The enemy is dividing his own fire but the better player concentrates it. If you use this technique but your opponent doesn’t, you’ll probably end the fight with four marines left when he is down to none.

Lesson 2: Use formation to concentrate firepower. When two enemy forces engage, say ten marines versus ten marines, formation can be everything. If one player marches his single file line of marines into a horizontal line of enemy marines, the horizontal line formation will be able to concentrate its fire on the first marine in the single file line, then the second, and so on. The last marines in the single file line won’t even be close enough to fire until all their friends are dead. Even better than a horizontal line is “shallow encirclement,” a crescent-shaped formation that maximizes the firepower one can apply to a point.

Lesson 3: Use choke points (narrow passes) to divide the enemy’s units. When a large enemy force must pass through a narrow choke point (either naturally created by terrain or artificially created by your buildings) he is dividing his own force for you. You can concentrate your firepower on each unit as it passes by.

There are more lessons, but his point is to focus on the concentration of firepower on the small scale of an individual battle. I cannot leave out Zileas’s most extreme and signature use of concentration of firepower: his “Doom Drop.”

Zileas is known for playing the Protoss race, the race smallest in numbers and most powerful in punch. Notice that they are already concentrated before he even got a hold of them. A so-called Doom Drop is when you fill about four shuttles (flying transports that carry other units) with amazingly powerful Protoss attack units such as Reavers, Templars, and Archons. (Heavily armored air units (Scouts) must sometimes accompany the shuttles.) This superabundance of force—this concentration of firepower—is enough to overwhelm nearly anything so long as it is applied instantly at a single point. When one Archon, three Reavers, four Zealots, and three Templars suddenly appear in the middle of your base, the sheer force of it all applied to your surely badly positioned units is usually too much.

Even more devastating is what Zileas calls his “Extra Crispy with Slaw” version of the Doom Drop, where he uses hallucinated (illusionary) units to draw fire. Flying four shuttles into an enemy base is not an easy task, because they’ll probably be shot down by whatever anti-air happens to be scattered about. Four Shuttles accompanied by, say, five Scouts is another matter. Now the anti-air fire has been divided among more targets. Better still if all these targets are accompanied by, say, ten illusionary Scouts. The illusions can’t attack, but they draw enemy fire giving the real units more time to act. In effect, the illusions divide and conquer the enemy’s anti-air fire. Deception at its best.

Micro and Macro
Why not apply Sun Tzu’s teachings of divide and conquer and concentration of firepower on the large scale as well as the small? Must one choose one over the other? The answer in StarCraft, realistically, is yes. One only has so much attention that must be divided between micro Extra Crispy with Slaw Doom Drops and macro economy horde-building.

The Third Resource: Concentration
Zileas explains:

[Editor's note: Concentration isn't as strictly required for BH compared to StarCraft (and the "talent gap" discussed here doesn't really apply, thankfully), but it could dictate things like the ability to not choke from an advantageous position. Training it using two or three ladder games at once is interesting food for thought. Another interesting thing to think about is how Zileas innovated the widespread use of micromanagement in StarCraft, when it has not yet been done in BH. Perhaps there is greater potential for micromanagement in this tier, and we just haven't had someone to introduce it yet. How do you think micromanagement could be used/is already being used in BH?]

Whether you, as a player, spend your concentration resources on the large scale or the small depends on which game is at hand and your personal style. In either case, the same principles are at work. On one level or another, thou shalt concentrate thy fire and divide and conquer thine enemy!

i've done 5 of the 9 art of war chapters so far, and i want to cover a few more things beyond that, specifically the playstyles, but probably not the things beyond that; it gets back into the territory of the example game not being too much of a factor in the content. hopefully you guys are enjoying this
dispite the fact i couldnt understand any of this shit. it still looks informative! GG fren


Hypercam (Gengar-Mega) (M) @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Normalize
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Entrainment
- Quiver Dance
- Secret Sword
- Judgment


009 Sound System (Regigigas) (M) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Facade
- Knock Off
- Spore


N-Word (Deoxys-Attack) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Dazzling
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Shell Smash
- Stored Power
- Close Combat
- Moongeist Beam


Resonance (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Blue Flare
- Tail Glow



Setup this (Aegislash) (F) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Haze
- Milk Drink
- Parting Shot
- Destiny Bond


Im A Dingy (Kyurem-Black) (M) @ King's Rock
Ability: Skill Link
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Icicle Spear
- Bone Rush
- Sunsteel Strike

https://pokepast.es/0460e6a45afa99c5
r8 pls
one more thing. how does this team beat Regenvest Kyogre? it seems to wall most of your team. also why kings rock on kyurem?, the last thing is how do you even improof any of your team? because that aegislash cannot improof everything on the team. and No. the focus sash on deoxys won't cut it
 

Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
dispite the fact i couldnt understand any of this shit. it still looks informative! GG fren


one more thing. how does this team beat Regenvest Kyogre? it seems to wall most of your team. also why kings rock on kyurem?, the last thing is how do you even improof any of your team? because that aegislash cannot improof everything on the team. and No. the focus sash on deoxys won't cut it
On thing Dock may be able to do is switch the Skill Link Kyurem-Black to Technician.
He could use Storm Throw over Bonerush, Dual Chop over Icicle Spear, and possibly keep Sunsteel Strike as is.

Storm Throw also allows it to bypass Dark-types like Gyarados-Mega, which you mentioned you won’t use, so it won’t impact your team via Imposter, thus it serves a purpose:

252+ Atk Technician Kyurem-Black Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gyarados-Mega on a critical hit: 270-318 (68.5 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This allows Aegislash to check Kyurem-Black because it is immune to Storm Throw, whereas with Bone Rush, it is weak to it. Icicle Spear or even Ice Shard could replace Dual Chop, but I am trying to think of what could work most consistently.

Without King’s Rock, you could also give it a more helpful item, such as Rocky Helmet or a Plate.

Normally, I would suggest Tough Claws, Ice Hammer, Sunsteel, Bolt Strike, Shift Gear could work, but Aegislash is still threatened by unboosted Bolt Strike:
252+ Atk Tough Claws Kyurem-Black Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aegislash-Shield: 134-158 (41.3 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Maybe just replace Kyurem-Black with PH MMX. This way Aegislash can resist Photon Geyser, Low Kick, etc. and combine the purpose of Deoxys-A (Fighting + Psychic), with being checkable by Aegislash. Plus, Imposter won’t get PHeal, so you can help accumulate damage when you switch to a check.
Dock maybe create a RMT?
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
preparing for tournaments: a guide

"preparing for tournaments" is a phrase that i see thrown around a lot without much explanation of what it really means. while the specifics of it will vary from person to person, i found some things that will be applicable to most players, so hopefully this will be helpful.

now there are two things involved in playing a tournament: teams and plays. because of this, it is imperative that both of these things be good. you can take good care of both your teams and yourself to achieve success.

team maintenance
before we go any further, i just want to say that you should take care of your teams. this means 1) backing them up in a google doc or other cloud system in case you don't have access to a device, and 2) giving them names besides "untitled". some people give all their teams fancy names, but you can just describe the basic team idea, like "tspikes diancie + cb merciless mmx". these won't help you win tournaments, but you should still do them.

anyway, here's an interesting question to ask yourself: what do you think are the top 10 teams in your builder? and by that i don't mean the raw viability of the teams, i mean how much you can do when you are using them. sample teams generally have a lot of potential, but chances are you won't be as good with a randomly imported sample as with the team you've been using for the last 50 games. this question is honestly super difficult to answer initially, but you can do things like play ladder games or friendlies vs good players and assess how well the teams work to get an eventual answer.

once you have the top 10 teams (or top 3-5 if you want), it's probably time to stop considering any other teams vs. opponents you won't specifically prepare for. bringing random teams from your builder because "they look cool" is how you lose games.

if you're in a tour with hidden replays, you can probably get away with spamming your #1 team, but don't be too predictable against opponents who are good enough to adapt and potentially steal wins against it. be unpredictable while still only bringing your top teams.

preparing for opponents
preparing for different opponents is interesting, because you generally have only one thing to consider: how predictable are they?

if they're a more predictable player, you can find patterns in their teams and construct a still good counter-team that can shut down anything they have to offer.

if they're less predictable and generally bring different-looking teams each game, you can typically just go with one of your top 10 teams and have the advantage of being more comfortable with your team. (however, this puts you at risk of getting counter-teamed yourself.) you can also look for less obvious patterns ("this guy always brings a super sturdy diancie counter") and go from there.

i don't know how you guys get ideas, but you're definitely going to need them here. do things that work for you, and get exposed to different things. for example, reading a book and going for a walk without any particular purpose can help inspire you, and are generally good things to do outside bh. friends or teammates can also supply you with ideas, but you're generally most successful using things you come up with. where the help of others really shines is in the building stage, where you're tasked with having to make your idea into a practical team.

once you have your team, you're going to have to grind up your skill with it. you want this new team to become a top 10, or at least top 25. testing your team is overall EXTREMELY important because it makes you comfortable with playing it, and also patches up any holes in the team. teammates/friends are ideal but the ladder can still work if your guys aren't available.

self maintenance
if you feel like trash, you're gonna play like trash. this is a fact.

luckily, there are several things you can do in order to not feel like trash. eating a substantial, healthy meal before the game is good. staying hydrated and getting lots of sleep are super important, because a) they stop you from making dumb mistakes and b) they stop you from feeling bad after you make mistakes (which is a good way to make more mistakes). basically, they negate both parts of the bh hell downward spiral.

another thing you can do is exercise before a game, usually i go for a run but you can really do anything you want. exercising will get your brain ready for the game and make you feel less like trash and more like a PRO BH PLAYER MLG GOD.

sometimes i listen to music during the game, although i haven't noticed any significant change caused by it (playing without music is also fine). this might vary between people, so just see what works for you.

hopefully these tips were helpful. preparing for tournaments is honestly not that hard outside of specific player preparation, and i think a lot of the things here are being overlooked. thanks for reading
 
It is possible to add a sample? I didn't see a lot of Hyper Offense samples and the only one (The Spore Spam) can be removed if Sleep Cause is implement.

My team is a HO which spam set-up and priority to kill the oppenent quickly. It is already a team I give to some people who wanted start BH and it is effective to progress in the low BH ladder (1500 ELO easy with this). It isn't hard to understand how it works, just click on set-up and sweep. And this team became a little famous (I see a mirror in BH Open G1), some good players have seen this team and sometimes they lose against.
It is why, I think it could be a good sample.

My team (named "Aggro like Burn") -> https://pokepast.es/9e67dfde8d40419c

 
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DarkBeserker

Banned deucer.
It is possible to add a sample? I didn't see a lot of Hyper Offense samples and the only one (The Spore Spam) can be removed if Sleep Cause is implement.

My team is a HO which spam set-up and priority to kill the oppenent quickly. It is already a team I give to some people who wanted start BH and it is effective to progress in the low BH ladder (1500 ELO easy with this). It isn't hard to understand how it works, just click on set-up and sweep. And this team became a little famous (I see a mirror in BH Open G1), some good players have seen this team and sometimes they lose against.
It is why, I think it could be a good sample.

My team (named "Aggro like Burn") -> https://pokepast.es/9e67dfde8d40419c

wow! this actually looks really good!, as a common HO user, this is VERY Good. it should get on the samples, ill probs do a bit of testing (and maybe english translation?), but a few more things, How do you improof any of your mons. you seem to lose if your sashes are broken and rocks are down, other than that it looks fine
 
Yes it isn't imposter-proof, but you can make a lot of pressure on imposter.
The idea is to sacrifice the mon agaisnt the imposter (if it doesn't kill imposter) and put the pokemon who can revenge the imposter.
I know isn't so good and "meta", but it's work. But against a good player who want absolutly keep the imposter, this team can struggle, I admit (specially Imposter scarf)
Also, i got NDM, which is Self-Imposter proof.
The other weakness is Prankster like Giratina, who kill all set-up sweeper.
 
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run prankster(taunt) or klutz(trick) on regigigas to make it prankster proof.

prankster helps more against opposing encore or taunt and doesnt use up the item slot, but loses effect when opponent switches out, while klutz is vulnerable to those moves but if it succeeds it cripples the opponent for your teammates as well
 
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Champion Leon

Banned deucer.
run prankster(taunt) or klutz(trick) on regigigas to make it prankster proof
That’s a great idea, as it is immune to Spectral Thief.
———
DF-Shock
My advice:

You could also just replace Fake-Out on the Refrigerate set with Shell Smash, so your Extreme Speed can KO Giratina and Zygarde before they use Haze.

+2 252+ Atk Icicle Plate Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 642-756 (127.3 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Afterall, Shell Smash and Sunsteel Strike can bluff Tough Claws.
—————
How about Unaware?

If you replace Close Combat on Tyranitar with Precipice Blades or V-Create, you can use a Gyarados-Mega to Imposterproof your team, barring Diancie-Mega.
Same set as posted above is here for your convenience:
Defensive
Gyarados-Mega @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Spectral Thief
- Shore Up
- Anchor Shot
Remember, while Defensive, technically Gyarados-Mega can still serve as a Heavy Offensive option thanks to Spectral Thief, so it doesn’t take away from the theme of your team.

Trust me, I recommend it “because it’s worth it.”
 
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Thanks for your Feedback. I am working on an other HO like that, if I success to build a better HO, I will post here.
But build a strong HO who is imposterproof, and not weak to Prankster Haze, is kinda hard...

run prankster(taunt) or klutz(trick) on regigigas to make it prankster proof.
I'm not fan of that. You lost a lot of power to lure some set.

You could also just replace Fake-Out on the Refrigerate set with Shell Smash, so your Extreme Speed can KO Giratina and Zygarde before they use Haze.

+2 252+ Atk Icicle Plate Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 642-756 (127.3 - 150%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Afterall, Shell Smash and Sunsteel Strike can bluff Tough Claws.
Can be good but i have a problem, Kyurem is here to RK the imposter.

How about Unaware?

If you replace Close Combat on Tyranitar with Precipice Blades or V-Create, you can use a Gyarados-Mega to Imposterproof your team, barring Diancie-Mega.
Seems good to imposter-proof but you lost power.

PS: The Spam Spore Sample can be removed, Sleep Clause is implemented.
 

DarkBeserker

Banned deucer.
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earth Power
- Psychic
- Bolt Strike
- Ice Beam

Sheer Force MMY is my main wallbreaker for the team, as it can break things that Kyurem black cannot. such as Dialga and registeel


Kyurem-Black @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Refrigerate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Fake Out
- Extreme Speed
- Boomburst
- V-create

KyuB is my main form of revenge killing. as it can pick off threats that are at low health with fake out.

Rayquaza-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moongeist Beam
- Tail Glow
- Giga Drain
- Oblivion Wing

This is my late game sweeper, it is only used when the opponents registeel and kyogres are dead.

Registeel @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Anchor Shot
- Entrainment
- Shore Up
- Defog

This is my Improof for KYUB and my hazard removal

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Shore Up
- U-turn
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock

This is my improof for both Rayquaza and MMY, and my blanket special check

Giratina @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Core Enforcer
- Strength Sap
- Haze
- Shore Up

This is my main form of dealing with MMX and setup.

Any opinions? seems pretty solid rn, just need to patch up a few holes
 
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Can we talk about Imposter for a second? It's over centralizing and hasn't been considered for a suspect yet (IIRC). Afterall, I thought this was supposed to be a "Balanced" meta. I would be petitioning to ban Chansey or Eviolite but that seems like it would do very little when Blissey exists. Matter of the fact is that Imposter ruins entire meta for me and a lot of other people. Of course the people who use two Chansey's with Eviolites on them are going to deny this immediately. If anyone can tell me that Imposter isn't an overcentralization with logical points that don't involve "Improofing" I will capitulate but until then I hold my stance.
 
(My bad if this is basically restating Volkner's post/not worded well enough)
It's over centralizing and hasn't been considered for a suspect yet (IIRC).
Imposter has not been considered for a suspect yet, because the arguments against it are pretty much the same, which I will repost later on.

If anyone can tell me that Imposter isn't an overcentralization with logical points that don't involve "Improofing" I will capitulate but until then I hold my stance.
Imposter serves a team the same way as any other set would, which is to gain momentum and possibly learn about what the opponent my be holding. Of course, this is done in a more unorthodox way than other sets by transforming into the opposing pokemon with buffed HP, learning its entire moveset and abillity, and possibly forcing it out. To anyone who may not have done much outside reading, it sounds overpowered. However, the reason it hasn't been suspected is because it should be the easiest thing to counter, because you know exactly what you have to prepare for, where as with every other set you aren't sure what moveset they'll bring.

As an example, MMY runs maybe six or seven sets, three of which are considered meta. When you open team preview, you have no idea which set they have, which means you won't in teambuilder either. Therefore, you will have to check each MMY set, usually with varying degrees of success. With imposter, though, you know every set that you have to counter and can build accordingly. Self-improofing sets, such as Spooky Plate Gengar can be used pretty well against double or triple imposter teams, knowing that three of the opponent's pokemon have become deadweight. In situations where you build milndfully enough to check your own sets, imposter becomes deadweight, and you have the advantage.
 
However, the reason it hasn't been suspected is because it should be the easiest thing to counter, because you know exactly what you have to prepare for, where as with every other set you aren't sure what moveset they'll bring.
How is this not hard to counter? Imagine having an amazing set that you created being copied and given (In most situations) loads more HP and juicy Eviolite boosts. For the rest of the argument I will use Chansey as an example because it is just the nail in the coffin for Imposter. So let's say Chansey takes your MMX's amazing stats. This would be fine if Chansey was not Stapling it's 250 HP stat over MMX's 106 as well as multiplying itś 100 defense and special defense by 1.5. It's pretty impossible to kill with your MMX's current moveset considering it's only weak to Fairy, Flying, and Ghost. Moongeist Beam may be used on MMX but it's situational. I have been told that only two Imposter pokemon are allowed on one team. This would require you to sacrifice at least one pokemon. So now to even that out you use two imposter pokemon yourself. Now let's go back to this being easy to counter, you now need to run pokemon that can counter your own or atleast tank the hits. Not only is this incredibly over- centralizing and just not fun, it's now not even balanced.
 

DarkBeserker

Banned deucer.
How is this not hard to counter? Imagine having an amazing set that you created being copied and given (In most situations) loads more HP and juicy Eviolite boosts. For the rest of the argument I will use Chansey as an example because it is just the nail in the coffin for Imposter. So let's say Chansey takes your MMX's amazing stats. This would be fine if Chansey was not Stapling it's 250 HP stat over MMX's 106 as well as multiplying itś 100 defense and special defense by 1.5. It's pretty impossible to kill with your MMX's current moveset considering it's only weak to Fairy, Flying, and Ghost. Moongeist Beam may be used on MMX but it's situational. I have been told that only two Imposter pokemon are allowed on one team. This would require you to sacrifice at least one pokemon. So now to even that out you use two imposter pokemon yourself. Now let's go back to this being easy to counter, you now need to run pokemon that can counter your own or atleast tank the hits. Not only is this incredibly over- centralizing and just not fun, it's now not even balanced.
Honestly, in my opinion, we should not be banning imposter. first off. have you heard of imposterproofing? second, we just had a suspect and don't think there is going to be one anytime soon. and imposter is not a threat compared to other things this meta has to offer, like Contrary and Sheer Force Mega Mewtwo Y's, so in my opinion, Imposter is not a threat at all compared to other things
 
Imposter is one of the few things in BH that you have a near 100% expectation of what you'll be facing because you design the set. The only variation is the amount of HP and the item. Imposter-proofing ("Improofing") is woven into the entire experience of BH and the power of imposter is entirely dependent on your own teambuilding.
Taking advantage of Judgment, Illusion, uncommon hard-counters to sweepers, trapping via Anchor/Waves and even its limited 20 pp movepool are all common and valid strategies.

Source : https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...uspects-and-bans-thread.3588586/#post-7115466

Imposter is a good ability for Chansey, i prefere Scarf version to the Eviolite version, but isn't broken, just balance the meta to have a good solution against full offensive set without good check (Contrary for example). The better way to counter Imposter strategie is IMPOSTER-PROOF all yours pokemons. Seems hard but it is a quite easy when you understand how to do that.

Exemple : You want play a M-Diancie Pixilate with V-Create. It is a quite good wallbreaker but if Chansey Imposter come you must wall it. Solution? Play Registeel Flash Fire. When Chansey come, you can switch-in to Registeel to tank your set of your Diancie and keep the tempo.
M-Gengar Normalize Spooky Plate Jugement is self-imposterproof because Chansey didn't have the plate and Jugement didn't it your Gengar, and Your Gengar can hit the imposter with Jugement or set-up against it.

The low ladder is complaining about Imposter... but if you see high ladder you can see few Chansey Imposter. Why? Because the player are prepared against Imposter and had a full improof team. It is why I think Imposter isn't broken and necessary to have a healthy meta.
 

cityscapes

Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
if you want people to take this potential suspect seriously, i would recommend posting specific examples, like teams (where imposter actively negatively restricted you) or replays (where imposter gave a player an unfair advantage), to better convince people

anyway first of all, 2 imposter is almost never used because it leaves your team open to different imposter proof mons like poison heal users, gengar, pdon, fat mons with trapping, shed, and simple imposter proof cores. i did face a 2 imposter team in ompl, and having 0 imposter users on my own team didn't really put me at a disadvantage: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-763362749 basically, imposter doesn't give a disproportionate advantage to those who use it; this is seen by its tournament win rate, which is pretty much always right at 50%.

secondly, there aren't really that many offensive mons that just get completely shut down by imposter. mmx can run band adapt photon, band tc spectral, and poison heal to wear down imposter super fast, and even refrigerate/technician can be annoying to switch into in the long run. the same applies for every offensive mon in the meta, with even specs no lens mmy psystrike being an annoying move to switch into. imposter won't single handedly patch up your team against these threats.

finally, i think people overstate how oppressive imposter is to teambuilding, because it's just a matter of starting your defensive core with a mon that can handle your offensive threats. got specs ray? start with soundproof/ff steel/fc chans/shed/etc. got refrigerate mmx? start with mega slowbro/cress/aegi/shed. i think this is fine, because it stops defensive cores from looking the same and allows different, more niche options to shine.

if you're building stall, imposter can lose to trapping, hazards, and status. if you're building offense, imposter is generally gonna die to a boosted mon. if you use an unstable offense heavy team, it's generally gonna have other issues like ate, ph regi, sf mmy, prank haze, or unaware. imposter is the least of your worries.

those are basically my points against an imposter suspect. would b interested to see what you have to say in response
 
E4 Flint :
Imposter is one of the few things in BH that you have a near 100% expectation of what you'll be facing because you design the set. The only variation is the amount of HP and the item. Imposter-proofing ("Improofing") is woven into the entire experience of BH and the power of imposter is entirely dependent on your own teambuilding.
Taking advantage of Judgment, Illusion, uncommon hard-counters to sweepers, trapping via Anchor/Waves and even its limited 20 pp movepool are all common and valid strategies.
 
Worth noting that pretty much everything relevant to Imposter-proofing is relevant, conceptually, to standard improofing vs Ditto. Only the Imposter is much stronger here but, to counter, the anti-Imposter options are much stronger too. Imposter is also the only set that's impacted by almost every single ban. (Eg: Sleep clause weakens it since it can't abuse stolen Sleep sets as much as before, especially if its team doesn't run sleep itself.

It does take some getting used to though, yeah, since while Imposter is a consideration in any tier it's legal, it's rarely to the same extent it is in BH.
 

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