BH Balanced Hackmons

Normalize Gengar is now one of those things which you have to make at least one counter or your team dies. I wish it wasn't the case. I feel like it's something that should be banned soon. Ah well. Here's some counters for it.

The first idea to counter it is only an idea and not a set. It's Magic Bounce. This is one of the better ideas since most carry Entrainment and not Skill Swap. The idea is to swap in the MB user against the Gengar and have it waste a turn. I'd recommend putting Nuzzle on it to slow it down so your heavy hitter can swap in and kill it like that. It doesn't work against Skill Swap Gengars though.

Judgement is also a good idea, for it is only affected by the plate you're holding, allowing for a powerful Ground, Psychic, Dark, or Ghost attack. Multi-Attack is worse but works on a physical set whilst Judgement is better on a special attacker.

My final idea is countering with an Entrainment and Prankster Pokemon. Prankster allows for you to go first so you can change it's ability and force a switch, and with Pursuit you can deal heavy damage to it when it does.
You're completely right that normalize gengar (often called normgar) is something that needs a dedicated counter on most teams, the exceptions being weird HO teams where every pokemon outspeeds (think 6 mmy) or maybe you can get away with a lot a priority pokemon. However, there are quite a few options to counter it that you didn't mention so I'll try to fill in as best I can because I think it's a big problem new players can get frustrated with and hopefully some will learn something from this.

The only common things you missed are Revelation Dance and z-moves which, like Judgment, aren't affected by normalize. RevDance is especially useful since it can be used on regenvest pokemon who have the added special bulk needed to switch into gengar and z-moves are a bit risky since it's one shot at working. There are other moves that can change type and aren't affected like weather ball but these are very niche.

Another slightly rarer option is Trick which can remove the Spooky plate from gengar, which most use with judgment, and then ghost types should wall it (but not do much back usually). This is best used on specially bulky pokemon such as ho-oh that can switch in safely and can also disrupt other strategies.

Fur Coat (or other non-imposter) chansey can usually wall normgar all game so you can attempt to pp stall them or just wait for the opponent to get bored, and you can also use non attacking moves that aren't affected by normalize like spore, whirlwind, topsy turvey etc to disrupt them even after normalize.

Some abilities like Comatose and Multitype can't be removed so these can be useful against entrainment, but the pokemon still needs to beat normgar anyway, so maybe not giratina. These, along with magic bounce, can be used with Pursuit so that the normgar can be permanently killed rather than just scared away.

One last and very desperate check is imposter with a spooky (or even earth) plate. These let you use judgment against the normgar, but you still have to risk switching in which can be dangerous.
Kyogre-Primal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 68 Spe
Sassy Nature
- U-turn
- Spectral Thief
- Rapid Spin
- Revelation Dance

Yveltal @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- Revelation Dance
- Beak Blast
- U-turn

Zygarde-Complete @ Groundium Z
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Shore Up
- Thousand Waves
- Entrainment
- Haze

Don't call me fat (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Wish
- Whirlwind
- Metal Burst
- Baton Pass

Tyranitar-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Trick
- Sucker Punch

Gyarados-Mega (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Pursuit
- Shore Up
- Switcheroo

Chansey @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Imposter
Happiness: 55
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Whirlwind
- Defog
- Trick
 
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Normalize Gengar is now one of those things which you have to make at least one counter or your team dies. I wish it wasn't the case. I feel like it's something that should be banned soon. Ah well. Here's some counters for it.

The first idea to counter it is only an idea and not a set. It's Magic Bounce. This is one of the better ideas since most carry Entrainment and not Skill Swap. The idea is to swap in the MB user against the Gengar and have it waste a turn. I'd recommend putting Nuzzle on it to slow it down so your heavy hitter can swap in and kill it like that. It doesn't work against Skill Swap Gengars though.

Judgement is also a good idea, for it is only affected by the plate you're holding, allowing for a powerful Ground, Psychic, Dark, or Ghost attack. Multi-Attack is worse but works on a physical set whilst Judgement is better on a special attacker.

My final idea is countering with an Entrainment and Prankster Pokemon. Prankster allows for you to go first so you can change it's ability and force a switch, and with Pursuit you can deal heavy damage to it when it does.
*Didn't see Willdbeast had posted until now*

As my prior post states, a bug for Arceus let’s it choose a form (like Ghost) and have a Revelation Dance for that type, without actually being the form (no plate or multi-type ability).

I would also suggest is Priority. Think of Choice Band Tough Claws Shadow Sneak Banette-Mega, -ate Rayquaza with Extreme Speed, or even Steelworker Bullet Punch Kartana.

Sturdy Shedinja with Shadow Sneak does about 33%, and it can be a wear down tactic where you attack as the foe uses Entrain, switch out and send back in so that Sturdy stops you from being KOed until they remove the ability. Some use Foresight to bypass Normalize for the ally that switches in to always hit.

As someone whom uses Gengar with Entrainment there are not as many checks as there could be, but just enough for me to have to prepare.

Also, I have been Prankster Encored, Taunted, etc. and that is something that can be a situational check. They cannot just switch into Gengar bc they can lose their ability if they are switched into Entrain, but it can be a slow pivot in.

Also, having Haze or Topsy-Turvey, regardless of ability, on a Audino-Mega, or Pokémon not weak to its moves is a way to Stall and prevent set up without Unaware.
 
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Gyarados has a small niche being a manual evolving shell smasher
Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Simple
- Shell Smash
- Power Trip
- Imprison
- Haze
It is unique among shell smashers in not requiring coverage attacks whatsoever, thanks to stab power trip augmented by mold breaker. this allows it to run imprison to block haze, as well as increase its improofness by just a little (struggle can still kill after any chip). It is weak to priority but otherwise a decent stallbreaker.
 
Nihilego @ Earth Plate
Ability: Simple / Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Sludge Wave
- Moonblast / Ice Beam
- Judgment

I like how this set can Imposterproof itself, survive -ate Speed priority (Aerilate and Refrigerate) and Triage due to its typing, while 1HKOing the majority of its targets.

Simple pairs with Moonblast so Imposter doesn’t do much back, forcing Imposter to run Judgement for max Damage, while Sheer Force pairs with Ice Beam to handle Assault Vest Zygarde-Complete and Unaware sets better, while Imposter still fails to KO. Sheer Force can also be run with Moonblast to still KO things like Tyranitar-Mega and Rayquaza off +2 SpA, in order to better Improof since it won’t take as much from Imposter, but it loses out on KOs vs Zygarde-Complete, it also allows it to have only -1 Defenses while still KOing the majority of it’s targets.

Calcs:
Versus Imposter

+4 252+ SpA Earth Plate Nihilego Judgment vs. -2 248 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 1480-1744 (210.5 - 248%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Earth Plate Nihilego Judgment vs. -1 252 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 744-876 (105.6 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+4 252+ SpA Chansey Judgment vs. -2 252 HP / 252 SpD Nihilego: 231-272 (54.7 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ SpA Sheer Force Chansey Ice Beam vs. -1 252 HP / 252 SpD Nihilego: 271-319 (64.2 - 75.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
————
Vs Zygarde-Complete

+4 252+ SpA Nihilego Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 548-646 (86.1 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

+2 252+ SpA Sheer Force Nihilego Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde-Complete: 548-648 (86.1 - 101.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
———
Vs Rayquaza-Mega

+2 252+ SpA Sheer Force Nihilego Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Rayquaza-Mega: 872-1028 (210.6 - 248.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Sharp Beak Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Fake Out vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Nihilego: 111-132 (26.3 - 31.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

252 Atk Sharp Beak Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Extreme Speed vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Nihilego: 221-261 (52.3 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This proves Nihilego won’t die to Rayquaza from both priority hits, and forces Rayquaza-Mega out if it wants to not get KOed.
—————
Vs Tyranitar-Mega

+2 252+ SpA Earth Plate Nihilego Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 394-464 (97.5 - 114.8%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Sheer Force Nihilego Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 408-480 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Tyranitar-Mega Sucker Punch vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Nihilego: 276-325 (65.4 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
————
Vs Yveltal

+2 252+ SpA Sheer Force Nihilego Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Yveltal: 442-520 (96.9 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Sheer Force Nihilego Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Yveltal: 466-550 (102.1 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
———
Vs Unaware Audino-Mega

+2 252+ SpA Sheer Force Nihilego Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Audino-Mega: 270-318 (65.8 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Nihilego is not Outclassed by Gengar-Mega, because it can use Earth Plate for more coverage, survive -ate Rayquaza, and can opt for Sheer Force to bolster its offense without being frail on its Special Defense.

Gengar is often limited to Secret Sword to handle Steels and Darks which often has lower base power than neutral Judgement (except in cases with Assault Vest like Assault Vest Dialga), while +2 Earth Plate Judgment or Ice Beam and Simple +4 Moonblast can cover the Dark types it would need to handle, such as Tyranitar-Mega and Yveltal.
 
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The Wallbreaker

Necrozma-Ultra @ Draco Plate
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
IVs: 30 SpA
- Shell Smash
- Judgment / Clanging Scales
- Photon Geyser
- Blue Flare

30 SpA IVs let’s Photon Geyser hit from the Attack slot, since tied Offenses defaults to SpA, rather than Attack.

Shell Smash Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra can use Photon Geyser like Psystrike for 1HKOing Fur Coat and Unaware variants of Chansey/Kyogre-Primal (which use a Relaxed nature), in addition to RegenVest Kyogre-Primal as well.

You also 1HKO Registeel with Blue Flare, and Zygarde-Complete with Assault Vest in 1 hit thanks to STAB Judgment.

Unaware users pretty much have to resist or be immune to Psychic; as even a Calm Unaware Yveltal is 2HKOed by STAB Judgment, and Relaxed Audino-Mega risks a 1HKO with Stealth Rocks. In fact none of these Calcs rely on Stealth Rocks to have a 1HKO besides Audino-Mega.
Ho-Oh is also a 1HKO with Photon Geyser.

I decided against giving it a Brave (+Atk, -Spe) nature to prevent Imposter Photon Geyser from being a 1HKO, although if you did, it would guarantee 1HKOs on Unaware/Fur Coat Chansey, and Ho-oh, and have a near 100% likelihood of KOing a Relaxed Audino-Mega with Stealth Rocks.
+2 252 SpA Adaptability Chansey Judgment vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Necrozma-Ultra: 289-341 (72.6 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Chansey Photon Geyser vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 318-375 (79.8 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The real idea is to come in on something forced out, and Shell Smash on the switch, once you do you can KO most things.

It survives Rayquaza, and Kartana’s Priority after a Shell Smash, and 1HKOs back:
252+ Atk Choice Band Steelworker Kartana Bullet Punch vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 252-297 (63.3 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Extreme Speed vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 316-372 (79.3 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Sharp Beak Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Extreme Speed vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 291-343 (73.1 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Triage Rayquaza-Mega Oblivion Wing vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Necrozma-Ultra: 265-312 (66.5 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Here are the Calcs versus everything else:
+2 252 SpA Draco Plate Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Judgment vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 928-1092 (131.8 - 155.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO VS Imposter

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 696-820 (98.8 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO VS Fur Coat/Unaware

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre-Primal: 406-478 (100.4 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Registeel: 368-434 (101 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Draco Plate Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde-Complete: 628-740 (98.7 - 116.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde-Complete: 330-390 (51.8 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO on Unaware

+2 252 SpA Draco Plate Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Zygarde-Complete: 472-556 (74.2 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Draco Plate Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Yveltal: 230-272 (50.4 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 SpA Draco Plate Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 452-534 (111.8 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 406-478 (97.5 - 114.9%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 322-380 (78.5 - 92.6%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes for Unaware sets
This set is about as powerful as Contrary because it has Draco Plate + Adaptability to make Judgment stronger than Draco Meteor, Blue Flare is as strong as Overheat, and Photon Geyser is almost as Strong as Psycho Boost with Adaptability.
The advantage is that Photon allows it to mix sweep on the physical side, break Unaware and RegenVest, and Fur Coat. Shell Smash is the only boosting option, so that Photon uses Attack over SpA.

——————

The Sweeper/Wallbreaker

Option 2- Either Imposterproof and Priority-proof, or all-out Priority-proof.

Necrozma-Ultra @ Draco Plate / Life Orb
Ability: Dazzling
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Sassy Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 27 SpD
- Shell Smash
- Judgment / Clanging Scales
- Photon Geyser
- Blue Flare

Like before, 30 SpA IVs allow Photon Geyser to use Atk, rather than SpA, and the 27 SpD IVs allow you to always KO Imposter with Judgment Draco Plate.
Clanging Scales can have 31 SpD IVs, since it isn’t not concerned with being Self-Imposterproof.

With a Dazzling nature, you will not have to fear Adaptability boosting the Imposter’s Photon Geyser, and can switch into Stealth Rocks and still take an Imposter’s Judgment, as that is the strongest move Imposter can use against you.
+2 252 SpA Draco Plate Necrozma-Ultra Judgment vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 704-830 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO -This requires 27 SpD IVs to become a 1HKO

+2 252 SpA Dazzling Chansey Judgment vs. -1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Necrozma-Ultra: 294-346 (73.8 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252+ Atk Dazzling Chansey Photon Geyser vs. -1 252 HP / 252 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 262-309 (65.8 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
While you are still able to handle Imposter, you will lose power on your STAB moves without Adaptability, but Judgment is still a powerful move capable of 1HKOing Non-RegenVest Zygarde-Complete, and 2HKOing Unaware Zygarde-Complete.
Calcs:
+2 252 SpA Draco Plate Necrozma-Ultra Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Zygarde-Complete: 702-828 (110.3 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Draco Plate Necrozma-Ultra Judgment vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Zygarde-Complete: 354-416 (55.6 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
If you don’t care about self-Improofing, you can use a Unaware Tyranitar-Mega which resists Blue Flare, is Immune to Photon Geyser, and doesn’t fear Clanging Scales without Adaptability/Life Orb from Imposter. Furthermore, it has a STAB Pursuit for the switch. If you are doing that, like I have, you can use Clanging Scales, and Life Orb. Dazzling also pairs nicely with Shell Smash and Clanging Scales, since priority is not a problem, and you are still 1HKOing most things.

Life Orb basically makes up for not having Adaptability regarding Photon Geyser, and makes Blue Flare even stronger. You lose a few KOs compared to Adaptability, on Dragon moves such as on RegenVest Zygarde-Complete, but 1 layer of Spikes secures a KO, plus you have a similar output to Photon Geyser, only dropping a few percentage points:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Necrozma-Ultra Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Zygarde-Complete: 562-663 (88.3 - 104.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre-Primal: 395-465 (97.7 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ho-Oh: 395-465 (94.9 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Necrozma-Ultra Clanging Scales vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Dialga: 406-477 (100.4 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Necrozma-Ultra Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 313-370 (76.3 - 90.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes for Unaware sets
 
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GL Volkner

cruel summer
is a Tiering Contributor
i been running this chansy set is it any good

Wall (Chansey) @ Eviolite
Ability: Simple
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Acupressure
- Substitute
- Defog
- Baton Pass
Chansey lacks recovery, which means it's very easily worn down. Couple that with the fact that it has the second highest HP stat in the game and even wish support won't help it recover health back. Baton Pass strategies in general are very mediocre in this meta as well due to the insane presence of setup control such as Spectral Thief and Haze, both of which bypass Substitute and your Chansey set does nothing to dissuade users of either move. Instead, I would go with something like this:

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- U-turn / Baton Pass
- Topsy-Turvy / Haze
- Defog / Metal Burst
- Shore Up

Fur Coat brings Chansey's physical bulk to extreme levels, and Shore Up gives it reliable recovery so that it can consistently come in on things it wishes to take on. Topsy-Turvy and Haze give it some setup control. Defog gives your team hazard control, while Metal Burst makes it less passive. This improves your set while keeping the wall idea you were going for. Chansey's best set is Imposter, but it doesn't really retain the initial idea of your set as well.
 
Here’s a marshadow set that works surprisingly well for some reason

Risen (Marshadow) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Curse
- Entrainment
- Shore Up
- Anchor Shot

Of course this set struggles against ghost types but that’s just a given for all trapper sets. The real fun starts when you get some momentum going. Marshadow is a bit bulkier than gengar(who can run this set too but gengar is overrated so who cares but if you do use gengar swap out anchor shot for infestation) and only has 5 points less in its base speed stat meaning it out speeds a lot of Pokemon. But the best thing about this set is that marshadow doesn’t even have to be on the field to do damage because curse only stops once either the affected mon switches out of the user dies. Just a link to the full team I run this set with if anyone is interested
 
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*totally not just using an OM comment to plug my set*
While I don’t recommend making your Tyranitar-Mega Adamant
I believe that this completely negates the single best TTar set to ever exist in any meta ever: BAND. ADAPT. TTAR.

Tyranitar-Mega (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Knock Off
- Diamond Storm
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch

This set packs an absolutely massive punch and does a good job at beating many common mons. Does your sweeper keep getting beat by Prankster Gira? Just switch in BAT and watch as the Gira user trembles in fear.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 524-620 (103.9 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even if they try to switch, if they’re even slightly chipped, there’s a good chance you can catch them with Pursuit


252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 432-512 (85.7 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

Ofc he has plenty of other uses. On top of hitting like a truck and trapping, he has priority as well. Sucker Punch allows him to have a form of speed control and lets him beat many MMY sets and even certain offensive Gars.


252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 540-636 (129.8 - 152.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even against Contrary MMY, his Sucker Punch OHKO’s guaranteed after nearly any chip with +1 Def

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Sucker Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 396-468 (95.1 - 112.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

On top of all of TTar’s other qualities, he can take quite a hit.


252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mewtwo-Mega-Y Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 315-372 (77.9 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Rayquaza Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 272-320 (67.3 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+3 252+ SpA Triage Rayquaza Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 348-410 (86.1 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 174-206 (43 - 50.9%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Rayquaza Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 250-296 (61.8 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 326-386 (80.6 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This allows him to serve as an emergency check to quite a lot of mons in a pinch. He can’t just switch in to these offensive threats, but he certainly can take many of them on in a straight up battle. Of course, strong enough Fighting coverage will usually OHKO, but TTar can usually take at least one hit from most of the meta.

Here are some more misc. calcs showing how much damage he can do. On top of Knock Off utility, he can 2HKO most mons shown
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 350-414 (86.6 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 246-290 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 260-308 (63.4 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal


252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas: 350-412 (76.7 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regigigas: 288-340 (67.9 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Empoleon: 356-420 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
TLDR: Use Band Adapt TTar


Edit: Zovrah insists that I mention that, since DStorm’s coverage isn’t as commonly used, it can be swapped for U-Turn
 
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*totally not just using an OM comment to plug my set*

I believe that this completely negates the single best TTar set to ever exist in any meta ever: BAND. ADAPT. TTAR.

Tyranitar-Mega (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 HP
- Knock Off
- Diamond Storm
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch

This set packs an absolutely massive punch and does a good job at beating many common mons. Does your sweeper keep getting beat by Prankster Gira? Just switch in BAT and watch as the Gira user trembles in fear.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 524-620 (103.9 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even if they try to switch, if they’re even slightly chipped, there’s a good chance you can catch them with Pursuit


252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 432-512 (85.7 - 101.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

Ofc he has plenty of other uses. On top of hitting like a truck and trapping, he has priority as well. Sucker Punch allows him to have a form of speed control and lets him beat many MMY sets and even certain offensive Gars.


252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 540-636 (129.8 - 152.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even against Contrary MMY, his Sucker Punch OHKO’s guaranteed after nearly any chip with +1 Def

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Sucker Punch vs. +1 252 HP / 252 Def Mewtwo-Mega-Y: 396-468 (95.1 - 112.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes

On top of all of TTar’s other qualities, he can take quite a hit.


252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mewtwo-Mega-Y Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 315-372 (77.9 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Rayquaza Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 272-320 (67.3 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+3 252+ SpA Triage Rayquaza Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 348-410 (86.1 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 174-206 (43 - 50.9%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Rayquaza Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tyranitar-Mega: 250-296 (61.8 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 326-386 (80.6 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This allows him to serve as an emergency check to quite a lot of mons in a pinch. He can’t just switch in to these offensive threats, but he certainly can take many of them on in a straight up battle. Of course, strong enough Fighting coverage will usually OHKO, but TTar can usually take at least one hit from most of the meta.

Here are some more misc. calcs showing how much damage he can do. On top of Knock Off utility, he can 2HKO most mons shown
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 350-414 (86.6 - 102.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Registeel: 246-290 (67.5 - 79.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino-Mega: 260-308 (63.4 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal


252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Xerneas: 350-412 (76.7 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regigigas: 288-340 (67.9 - 80.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Empoleon: 356-420 (95.6 - 112.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
TLDR: Use Band Adapt TTar


Edit: Zovrah insists that I mention that, since DStorm’s coverage isn’t as commonly used, it can be swapped for U-Turn
Thanks for making calculation posts cool (great) again. :afrostar:

I still think my Set has a specific niche for surviving while dishing out the pain, and of course it is a specific Inposterproofer to MMY. :blobuwu:

Anyways, as for Adaptability and Choice Band which is basically a +2 Attack (100% x 1.5 = 150% x 1.34 = 200%), Hoopa-Unbound could be a helpful alternative, giving your Pokémon a more consistent Dark move with Hyperspace Fury, and STAB Photon Geyser, while having an almost equal attack of 160 vs Tyranitar-Mega’s 164.

Hoopa-Unbound is obviously less bulky, but here are the niches:

- +20 Base Speed (can outspeed Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, and other key threats to Tyranitar-Mega)

- Hyperspace Fury keeps 100% Base power after each use, including previously White Herb or Sitrus Berry consumed foes, and threatens irrevocable item holders including Giratina with Grisceous Orb, Red Orb Groudon (on the switch), Mega Stone (I.e. Kangaskhan), and Z-Crystal holders.

- Hyperspace Fury breaks through King’s Shield, Spiky Shield, and Baneful Bunker to prevent stalling and negative effects, and doesn’t make contact (for Beak Blast) - all of which would block or Burn Knock Off users.

- Photon Geyser KOs Shedinja, and bypasses abilities like Fur Coat (I.e. Chansey).

- If the foe Burns or otherwise lowers Hoopa-Unbound’s Attack such as with Strength Sap, Photon Geyser can hit from the Base 170 Special Attack stat. (Adaptability boosts it to keep it potent).

*Key points: Hitting Giratina as hard as possible is one of the main selling points of Dark STAB, and holding Grisceous Orb lowers Knock Off to below Sucker Punch in terms of base power (65 vs 70).

Plus being immune to Baneful Bunker, King’s Shield, and Spiky Shield due to Hyperspace Fury breaking past Protect clones is pretty stellar, while Photon Geyser and Hyperspace Fury bypass any Beak Blasts as they don’t make contact.

Tyranitar-Mega’s bulk and SpD benefits from Sandstream can make it more universally applicable to most trams, but Hoopa-Unbound can be an option for filling certain team holes when you need secure Dark Damage.

As for Tyranitar-Mega:
Also, if you plan to use U-Turn over Diamond Storm, you can switch to Tough Claws and still Boost all moves for 30%, just under Adaptability’s 33%.
A good Imposterproof is Shedinja, which I think is pretty cool.
 
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Thanks for making calculation posts cool (great) again. :afrostar:
I still think my Set has a specific niche for surviving while dishing out the pain, and of course it is a specific Inposterproofer to MMY.

Anyways, as for Adaptability and Choice Band which is basically a +2 Attack (100% x 1.5 = 150% x 1.34 = 200%), Hoopa-Unbound could be a helpful alternative, giving your Pokémon a more consistent Dark move (I.e. Hitting irrevocable item holders such as Grisceous Orb Giratina, Red Orb Groudon on the switch-in, Z-Crystal holders, etc.) with Hyperspace Fury, and Photon Geyser for power over Diamond Storm (Sturdy Shedinja, Fur Coat Chansey), and having an almost equal attack 160 vs Tyranitar-Mega’s 164.

Hoopa-Unbound is obviously less bulky, but here are the niches:
- 20 Base Speed (which translates into 40 raw Speed points higher than Tyranitar-Mega)
- The base power doesn’t diminish after an item is removed, nor does it lower when an item isn’t removable
- Photon Geyser KOs Shedinja
- Photon Geyser breaks Fur Coat

Hitting Giratina as hard as possible is one of the main selling points of Dark STAB, and that lowers Knock Off to below Sucker Punch in terms of power (65 vs 70).

Plus being immune to Baneful Bunker, King’s Shield, and Spiky Shield due to Hyperspace Fury breaking past Protect clones is pretty stellar, while Photon Geyser and Hyperspace Fury bypass any Beak Blasts as they don’t make contact.

Tyranitar-Mega’s bulk and SpD benefits from Sandstream can make it more universally applicable to most trams, but Hoopa-Unbound can be an option for filling certain team holes when you need secure Dark Damage.

As for Tyranitar-Mega:
Also, if you plan to use U-Turn over Diamond Storm, you can switch to Tough Claws and still Boost all moves for 30%, just under Adaptability’s 33%.
A good Imposterproof is Shedinja, which I think is pretty cool.
This sounds like a pretty good idea, but one of Hoopa's main flaws is its bad physical bulk and 4x weakness to U-Turn. For example, if it mispredicts about Giratina and uses Pursuit while Giratina uses U-Turn, Giratina chips it really, really badly:
252 Atk Giratina U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 276-328 (75.8 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
while:
252 Atk Giratina U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 78-92 (19.3 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO

The boosted damage against mons that can't have their items removed sounds promising, but I don't know of a Groudon or Z-move user that would be a good switchin to either Hoopa or Tyranitar. Also Fur Coat Chansey is never switching into anything that usually uses Knock Off.

I don't see Tough Claws being very useful in boosting a move that only is used to pivot. When Pursuit has only a small chance of OHKOing Giratina, it needs all the firepower it can get.

Hoopa-Unbound is a pretty good mon with some unrecognized potential, but I think for this kind of set it needs more team support than Tyranitar-Mega.
 
This sounds like a pretty good idea, but one of Hoopa's main flaws is its bad physical bulk and 4x weakness to U-Turn. For example, if it mispredicts about Giratina and uses Pursuit while Giratina uses U-Turn, Giratina chips it really, really badly:
252 Atk Giratina U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 276-328 (75.8 - 90.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
while:
252 Atk Giratina U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 78-92 (19.3 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO

The boosted damage against mons that can't have their items removed sounds promising, but I don't know of a Groudon or Z-move user that would be a good switchin to either Hoopa or Tyranitar. Also Fur Coat Chansey is never switching into anything that usually uses Knock Off.

I don't see Tough Claws being very useful in boosting a move that only is used to pivot. When Pursuit has only a small chance of OHKOing Giratina, it needs all the firepower it can get.

Hoopa-Unbound is a pretty good mon with some unrecognized potential, but I think for this kind of set it needs more team support than Tyranitar-Mega.
I was editing my post as you posted, so I may have added new details.
Tough Claws boosts all moves on Tyranitar-Mega including its STAB Dark Attacks and U-Turn.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 516-608 (102.3 - 120.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

VS

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 524-620 (103.9 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO

A 3% difference in the power boost equates to a 1.6% difference in actual minimum roll damage dealt, and that is when it is Super Effective which doubles the gap in damage.

Groudon-Primal outspeeds and the Ground STAB is super Effective VS Tyranitar-Mega, and has plenty of bulk without a weakness. So while I don’t believe Groudon-Primal can come in repeatedly vs Tar, it may occur during a game nonetheless, and having 2 100 Base power moves (Photon and Hyperspace Fury) for it to take Damage from, is better than 1 (Diamond Storm).

Also, if Groudon-Primal mispredicts that you will either Pursuit or Sucker Punch on their switch-in (say they have Gengar-Mega that could be Dazzling or Entrain and so you don’t want to risk wasting a turn with Sucker Punch) but they switch out and up taking a Knock Off, they can force out Tyranitar-Mega and still set up, where a Hyperspace Fury will always be a 2HKO to Groudon-Primal

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 238-280 (58.9 - 69.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

With a 50% chance you will pick the wrong move (Sucker Punch or Pursuit), that gives Groudon a free switch, so with another 50% you pick the right STAB move, it helps to have a higher likelihood to punish their switch-in. Knock Off only does 2/3 of that damage...

A Z-move crystal User could be Diancie-Mega or Zygarde-Complete which can each carry a Groundium-Z, and resist the Dark or Rock STAB. Extreme Speed basically stops Sucker Punch bc Sucker Punch fails of it goes last, while Boomburst KOs.
Zygarde-Complete can obviously use a variety of tactics, especially if it packs Fur Coat. The Z-Crystal is typically for hitting Entrain Gengar-Mega (Zygarde-Complete).

Fur Coat Chansey can switch in once it knows what move you have. Let’s say bc I would switch out Diamond Storm for Photon Geyser, Chansey can come in on Diamond Storm, but it cannot come in on Photon Geyser. That is the difference.

Anyways other benefits include outspeeding Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, which can come in and threaten Tyranitar-Mega if you don’t lock into Sucker Punch, among others.

Also, I could make the case for Ground, Steel, Fighting, etc. moves VS Tyranitar-Mega in comparison to Hoopa-Unbound.
 
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Another notable difference is that Ttar's moves have no immunities and it is not walled by opposing Dark-types like itself and Yveltal. Despite Photon's utility, it can also be a downfall to be choice locked on it. Also Hoopa-U is really slow and most likely won't have the chance to 2HKO Pdon when it is knocked out by V-create after the first hit. Ttar hates P-blades but it at least has a 50% chance for a defense boost if using D-storm.
 
Another notable difference is that Ttar's moves have no immunities and it is not walled by opposing Dark-types like itself and Yveltal. Despite Photon's utility, it can also be a downfall to be choice locked on it. Also Hoopa-U is really slow and most likely won't have the chance to 2HKO Pdon when it is knocked out by V-create after the first hit. Ttar hates P-blades but it at least has a 50% chance for a defense boost if using D-storm.
Those are great points. Considering that PDon is faster than Hoopa-U, no one would keep it in, however, if someone were to switch PDon into Hoopa-U, it would not hurt it with Sucker Punch, or Pursuit, and Knock Off would be a 3HKO at best.

While, Hoopa-U at 80 Base Speed is not fast, if you are mentioning Hoopa-U is slow, it’s speed is still beyond Tyranitar-Mega’s, this it help it against things that are in the middle such as Necrozma Dusk-Mane.

The special bulk on Hoopa-Unbound is also severely underestimated, as it has a total of just 2 weaknesses. To give some perspective, here is how much one of the strongest neutral hits will deal:

252 SpA Life Orb Aerilate Rayquaza-Mega Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Hoopa-Unbound: 300-355 (82.4 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Before someone says Tyranitar-Mega would resist it, it was more on how well Hoopa-Unbound can handle neutral hits, and obviously I didn’t choose Kyogre-Primal, etc. to make my point (Tyranitar-Mega wouldn’t like Water hits).

To your point on a Dark-Type Switching in on Photon Geyser, that can be said about switching in on Dark moves as well, as Sucker Punch fails to do any damage if the foe doesn’t attack, and Pursuit fails to do any damage to the incoming Pokémon if the outgoing Pokémon is being switched in...
Knock-Off sounds like the only move that can hurt a Dark-Type switch in, which will be resisted and does less than Hyperspace Fury, regardless of item.

Diamond Storm can help, but by the time you have revealed what move you are locked into, they can just switch in a resist to Rock such as the numerous Steel types, or a Ground-Type like Zygarde-Complete. Spectral Thief, and Topsy Turvey can actually punish Diamond Storm boosts, and it’s coverage is so questionable that Zovrah and the set promoter Mickle314 are questioning if U-Turn should be used instead... not much to say on Diamond Storm. (If you predict a Psychic move will draw a Dark-Type switch in, you can be sure a Rock move would draw a Rock-resist switch in).

Hoopa-Unbound’s Physical bulk can be compared to Tyranitar-Mega’s when super Effective hits are considered-

252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 246-290 (60.8 - 71.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 223-264 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So, when considering Steel, Water, Grass, Ground, they are basically equal on the physical front.
When considering Fighting moves, Hoopa-Unbound can stand while Tyranitar-Mega falls, and Bug hurts both, so a Beedrill-Mega with U-Turn will still scare out Tyranitar-Mega if Choice Band is locked into Diamond Storm or Knock Off (or Sucker Punch if Beedrill-Mega has Dazzling).

252 Atk Mewtwo-Mega-X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Hoopa-Unbound: 282-333 (77.4 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Tyranitar-Mega: 294-348 (72.7 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

When dealing with non-Dazzling variants, Hoopa-Unbound can swiftly KO with Pursuit, or Sucker Punch.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Hoopa-Unbound Pursuit (80 Base power on the switch) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Beedrill-Mega: 442-522 (132.3 - 156.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Overall, Hoopa-Unbound has niches that don’t replace Tyranitar-Mega, but it’s niches are definitely worthy of consideration, as having less weaknesses, more STAB utility, and higher Speed give it a role of its own.

Based on the advice of Zovrah I would say use Tough Claws and U-Turn for Choice Band Tyranitar-Mega for easy pivoting and Dark STAB, or use Choice Band Adaptability Hoopa-Unbound for Photon Geyser, and Hyperspace Fury.
 
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Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request)

bh's very own pseudo-intellectual
is a Community Contributor


mega mewtwo y is well known for being one of the best mons in the meta, but when considering sets, sheer force and contrary are really the only good ones that come to mind. it seems odd to me that such a flexible mon would have only 2 good sets, so i think it's time for some exploration of the mon if you guys are up for it. here are a bunch of cool mmy sets that i've used:

ABSENCE OF SHIELD (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Zap Cannon
- Focus Blast
- Photon Geyser

no guard mmy didnt have much to do with the free turns and switches it often picked up so i added tail glow to the set, imposter proofed by volt absorb msab. set worked out decently for me but struggled because of lack of initial power and stuff

sunman (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Life Orb
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Psystrike
- Secret Sword
- Ice Beam

i run this set a lot on dedicated sun teams. it gets worn down super quick by lo + solar power but it breaks walls like nothing else. blue flare is basically a stab move and can ohko guys like dialga and yveltal under sun. ff aegi and shed are annoying but this set fixes the initial power problem.

signature move man (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Light of Ruin
- Knock Off
- Volt Tackle
- Precipice Blades

i dont remember what this set was really supposed to do but i found it on an incomplete team with a snow warning lapras. seems cool and doesnt really get walled by much

vd was here (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Moonblast

ph mmy, this set has low initial power but can still put in work with taunt wisp. stuff like ph regi can kinda take advantage of it to an extent tho which is annoying.

MAGICIAN OF SHIELD (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light of Ruin
- Psycho Shift
- Strength Sap
- Psystrike

flame orb mmy sounded cool bc you could like burn guys, even ff steels. also meant i could bypass shed even while running psystrike. UNFORTUNATELY in test games i literally ran into 2 heatrans in a row but THATS JUST HOW IT IS SOMETIMES

downward spiral (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Thunder Fang

secret set. dont tell anyone.


what are your opinions on the viability of other mmy sets besides contrary and 4 attacks sf? what cool sets have you used? do you think that other sets will rise to the forefront if contrary gets banned, or will sf stand alone as the best set? i want to know your opinions about this mon!
 


mega mewtwo y is well known for being one of the best mons in the meta, but when considering sets, sheer force and contrary are really the only good ones that come to mind. it seems odd to me that such a flexible mon would have only 2 good sets, so i think it's time for some exploration of the mon if you guys are up for it. here are a bunch of cool mmy sets that i've used:

ABSENCE OF SHIELD (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Zap Cannon
- Focus Blast
- Photon Geyser

no guard mmy didnt have much to do with the free turns and switches it often picked up so i added tail glow to the set, imposter proofed by volt absorb msab. set worked out decently for me but struggled because of lack of initial power and stuff

sunman (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Life Orb
Ability: Solar Power
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blue Flare
- Psystrike
- Secret Sword
- Ice Beam

i run this set a lot on dedicated sun teams. it gets worn down super quick by lo + solar power but it breaks walls like nothing else. blue flare is basically a stab move and can ohko guys like dialga and yveltal under sun. ff aegi and shed are annoying but this set fixes the initial power problem.

signature move man (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Light of Ruin
- Knock Off
- Volt Tackle
- Precipice Blades

i dont remember what this set was really supposed to do but i found it on an incomplete team with a snow warning lapras. seems cool and doesnt really get walled by much

vd was here (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psystrike
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Moonblast

ph mmy, this set has low initial power but can still put in work with taunt wisp. stuff like ph regi can kinda take advantage of it to an extent tho which is annoying.

MAGICIAN OF SHIELD (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Flame Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Light of Ruin
- Psycho Shift
- Strength Sap
- Psystrike

flame orb mmy sounded cool bc you could like burn guys, even ff steels. also meant i could bypass shed even while running psystrike. UNFORTUNATELY in test games i literally ran into 2 heatrans in a row but THATS JUST HOW IT IS SOMETIMES

downward spiral (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Thunder Fang

secret set. dont tell anyone.


what are your opinions on the viability of other mmy sets besides contrary and 4 attacks sf? what cool sets have you used? do you think that other sets will rise to the forefront if contrary gets banned, or will sf stand alone as the best set? i want to know your opinions about this mon!
Yes, my recent post made a similar point on MMY after Contrary.
I could see Flare Boost MMY being a nice alternative to the Flame Orb Magic Guard & Magic Guard Life Orb sets for initial power (and so that if you do get hit by an Ability removal attack like Life Orb or Entrainment by FF Registeel you won’t fear recoil).

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Flame Orb
Ability: Flare Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Spore
- Photon Geyser / Psystrike
- Secret Sword

Being Imposterproof proves helpful here- No boost to Chansey, invulnerable to Spore, resist its 2 most used moves, and Ice Beam still packs a punch for Zygarde-Complete and friends.

The real advantage here is that unlike Magic Guard, Sheer Force, and No Guard, Flare Boost functions like a Choice Specs, Boosting all moves without restrictions on which moves you can use (I.e Recoil, secondary effects, low accuracy).

252 SpA Flare Boost Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Kyogre-Primal: 280-331 (69.3 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Flare Boost Mewtwo-Mega-Y Photon Geyser vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 187-222 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

252 SpA Flare Boost Mewtwo-Mega-Y Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 656-772 (103.1 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Flare Boost Mewtwo-Mega-Y Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar-Mega: 408-480 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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So, my BH team has a Sceptile-Mega on it that used to use contrary, however, now that contrary is banned, I'm trying to find another good Sceptile-Mega set, does anybody know any other good sets for an offensive Sceptile-mega using spore?
 
Sheer Force is probably the easiest transition to make. Probably. You could also do Sashsmash with Dazzling as well. Other than that... time to experiment!

...maybe Serene Grace Mega-Scept? Don't have to worry about a 60% chance to boost a Contrary's Special Defense by two stages anymore. But, good luck working on that, you'd be in mostly uncharted waters.


Meanwhile, some meta-change speculation/ideas to explore...

I think Contrary getting banned opens up some new opportunities in stat-drop usage. Non-Prankster Parting Shot becomes a loooot more viable now (Soundproof isn't that common and Magic Bounce can be punished by getting hazards up) while Intimidate might have some level of viability now, even if only on Red Orb Pdon. Night Daze and Fire Lash become a lot more usable and some other niche moves like (Serene Grace) Luster Purge might carve some new spots for themselves. Or Serene Grace Octazooka for maximum trolling.

Of those, I think Parting Shot probably has the opportunity to get the most standard usage.
 
So, my BH team has a Sceptile-Mega on it that used to use contrary, however, now that contrary is banned, I'm trying to find another good Sceptile-Mega set, does anybody know any other good sets for an offensive Sceptile-mega using spore?
Here is an actual set:

Sceptile-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Turbo Blaze / Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spore
- Tail Glow
- Seed Flare
- Clanging Scales

Bypass Magic Bounce, Sturdy, Unaware, and as you wanted to use Spore, you can use the turn they retreat from Sleep to set up Tail Glow.

Common RegenVesters like Kyogre-Primal and Zygarde-Complete will be hesitant to come in, and Seed Flare’s SpDef drop is always nice.

You could drop Tail Glow for Earth Power but if Tail Glow more than doubles the damage of Clanging Scales then just consider the following

165 x 2.5 = 412.5 / 2 = 206.25

Versus a super effective Earth Power vs a Steel-

90 x 2 = 180

Otherwise, I would just go Tinted Lens and sweep without a resistance. But Turbo Blaze can have its benefits.

The main advantage here, is that you can use just STAB to sweep if you use Tinted, or benefit even more from Tail Glow if you use Turbo Blaze.

Edit: Meant to add that Turbo Blaze also bypasses Soundproof, which is completely useful for Clanging Scales.
 
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So umm, I kinda wanna throw this gimmick out there, because it has been semi-reliable to me and I wanted to see if it could be potent.

So I present:
The lol you can't hit me strat

So what is this strat?
Essentially, you use pokemon with moves that grant you semi-invulnerability for one turn, then hit the next, such as:
Bounce, Dig, Dive, Fly, Phantom Force, Shadow Force and Sky Drop, (Last one doesn't work as well)

You need the following to make this strat work:
1. Knowing one of these moves
2. Being slow AF (No speed investments)
3. Having Prankster
4. Having the move Copycat
5. Having the move Substitute
6. Having a Custap Berry
7. (Recommended) Running Swords Dance

This strategy HEAVILY restricts your options, so I wouldn't reccomend having more than 1 on your team.
Now how does this work?
With Prankster, you can sub up until you reach custap berry range, if your opponent doesn't break your sub, you swords dance up.
Once you're in custap berry range, you simply use the semi-invulnerable move, making you invulnerable for that turn.
And you'll hit the opponent the next, but AFTER them.
You see, custap only activates for preparing your move, not the turn it hits, this protects you for two turns.
And then, you use copycat, which is essentially using a priority version of that move, (Again, no priority the next turn).
This, on paper, makes you literally invincible, but it has some flaws.

- Priority: This'll be able to hit you before you load up your move, be it by just a priority move, Prankster, Or Triage.
- Negative Priority: Moves like Dragon Tail, Roar, etc, also apply, being able to hit you once you come out of your invincible state.
- Slower Pokemon: This one is unlikely, but pokemon made for a trick room strat could beat you without a trick room, since they would be slower than you, making them able to hit you once your invulnerability ends.
-Toxic from poison types: Apparently this is one? IDK if it's true.
-Earthquake on Dig
I might've forgotten a few counters, but these are the main ones.
(EDIT: Sturdinja)
Now here are my sets using this strat!:

Can't touch this (Banette-Mega) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Shadow Force
- Copycat
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
Surprisingly Strong, and hits super hard with Shadow Force, that's base 120 power.

b it.ly/2NYtkUQ (Crawdaunt) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Dive
- Copycat
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
High attack stat as well, plus doesn't get affected by prankster

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Dig/Fly
- Copycat
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
Extremely high attack, and can run both Dig and Fly for stab, also doesn't get affected by Earthquake while underground! (I think)

Honchkrow @ Custap Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Fly
- Copycat
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
Essentially a flying crawdaunt.
 
So umm, I kinda wanna throw this gimmick out there, because it has been semi-reliable to me and I wanted to see if it could be potent.

So I present:
The lol you can't hit me strat

So what is this strat?
Essentially, you use pokemon with moves that grant you semi-invulnerability for one turn, then hit the next, such as:
Bounce, Dig, Dive, Fly, Phantom Force, Shadow Force and Sky Drop, (Last one doesn't work as well)

You need the following to make this strat work:
1. Knowing one of these moves
2. Being slow AF (No speed investments)
3. Having Prankster
4. Having the move Copycat
5. Having the move Substitute
6. Having a Custap Berry
7. (Recommended) Running Swords Dance

This strategy HEAVILY restricts your options, so I wouldn't reccomend having more than 1 on your team.
Now how does this work?
With Prankster, you can sub up until you reach custap berry range, if your opponent doesn't break your sub, you swords dance up.
Once you're in custap berry range, you simply use the semi-invulnerable move, making you invulnerable for that turn.
And you'll hit the opponent the next, but AFTER them.
You see, custap only activates for preparing your move, not the turn it hits, this protects you for two turns.
And then, you use copycat, which is essentially using a priority version of that move, (Again, no priority the next turn).
This, on paper, makes you literally invincible, but it has some flaws.

- Priority: This'll be able to hit you before you load up your move, be it by just a priority move, Prankster, Or Triage.
- Negative Priority: Moves like Dragon Tail, Roar, etc, also apply, being able to hit you once you come out of your invincible state.
- Slower Pokemon: This one is unlikely, but pokemon made for a trick room strat could beat you without a trick room, since they would be slower than you, making them able to hit you once your invulnerability ends.
-Toxic from poison types: Apparently this is one? IDK if it's true.
-Earthquake on Dig
I might've forgotten a few counters, but these are the main ones.
(EDIT: Sturdinja)
Now here are my sets using this strat!:

Can't touch this (Banette-Mega) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Shadow Force
- Copycat
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
Surprisingly Strong, and hits super hard with Shadow Force, that's base 120 power.

b it.ly/2NYtkUQ (Crawdaunt) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Dive
- Copycat
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
High attack stat as well, plus doesn't get affected by prankster

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Custap Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Dig/Fly
- Copycat
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
Extremely high attack, and can run both Dig and Fly for stab, also doesn't get affected by Earthquake while underground! (I think)

Honchkrow @ Custap Berry
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
- Fly
- Copycat
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
Essentially a flying crawdaunt.
I shall first award you for that delightful Crawdaunt nickname music video which works if you remove the space between the B and the I. It changes lives.

0148EA16-F196-4FAF-965C-780EBE5FFFC1.jpeg

Also as a tip, lower the IVs to 0 for Speed.

Second of all, I love this idea, and think that the Benefit of Shadow Force is that it breaks Protect moves, which is crucial when it comes to stalling Priority moves (click the attack not Copycat so you can use Copycat after it breaks the move next turn), and moves that may Stall Toxic Poison, as you mentioned.

I would say that a while ago I created a similar set with Marowak-Alolan, using V-Create, Shadow Force, Copycat, and Close Combat / Sunsteel Strike.

The unique thing about Copycat on 2 turn moves is that it targets the move not the opponent, which means that you can Copycat Shadow Force in the face of Dazzling and Queenly Majesty.

It does not, however, work against Dark types so it seems to backfire.

I would say if you don’t need Custap Berry, it’s good to replace Swords Dance bc many of the moves have a type immune to them, like Dig, or Shadow Force, and use a secondary attack, like I do with V-Create. This works also because V-Create lowers the Speed which makes your second turn more likely to go last, and underspeed any Core Enforcer Ability removals on the second turn, keeping your invulnerability. Lowered Defenses don’t matter when you are not targetable.

Also, No Guard Pokémon can abuse their ability to hit even during the semi-invulnerable turn of the attacks, so MMY can Zap Cannon you.

https://m.bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/No_Guard_(Ability)

I like your creativity and only replied to show my support and give an option for a Pokémon without Custap (Thick Club Marowak-Alolan), as it can use strong STAB moves, and stay slow.
 
Another question here, are there any abilities that prevent the loss of stat boosts?
EDIT: If there isn't an ability, are there any other strats that can have this effect and still be viable?
 
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