to add to this, impostors well... get improofed. topsy can at least be alleviated with Good as Gold, regenvests can also be beat with wandering spirit, tidy up isnt that common.
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BH Balanced Hackmons
- Thread starter Tea Guzzler
- Start date
why do people use good as gold when magic bounce exists is it just terminal new toy syndrome or something
wandering spirit also isn't hugely common, only mon to so far make it work seems like dialga but a point nonetheless
I was messaged a cool Replay of my original team, and it showcases how Miraidon made a comeback.
Post your team here, include a replay that highlights your issues, and we can gauge from there.
Also, an easy fix is to use Moongeist Beam, on say, Flutter-Mane so that it bypasses Ice Scales completely.
You can also use Mold Breaker as an ability, have a strong neutral hitting move, pair it with Spikes, and throw in Strength Sap, all of which benefit from Mold Breaker breaking through Magic Bounce. The fourth move can be something like a coverage move.
Personally, what I like is to bypass typing. Things like Tinted Lens turns resistances into neutral hits, and a resistance is the equivalent of a Fur Coat or Ice Scales.
Soak is another option, and it pairs nicely with Salt Cure, Thunder Cage, and Mortal Spin / Status move (Nuzzle, etc.) since you remove typing immunity to status effect, especially after Knock Off.
I have an idea.
Post your team here, include a replay that highlights your issues, and we can gauge from there.
Also, an easy fix is to use Moongeist Beam, on say, Flutter-Mane so that it bypasses Ice Scales completely.
You can also use Mold Breaker as an ability, have a strong neutral hitting move, pair it with Spikes, and throw in Strength Sap, all of which benefit from Mold Breaker breaking through Magic Bounce. The fourth move can be something like a coverage move.
Personally, what I like is to bypass typing. Things like Tinted Lens turns resistances into neutral hits, and a resistance is the equivalent of a Fur Coat or Ice Scales.
Soak is another option, and it pairs nicely with Salt Cure, Thunder Cage, and Mortal Spin / Status move (Nuzzle, etc.) since you remove typing immunity to status effect, especially after Knock Off.
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i agree that fc/scales are healthy for the meta but i disagree with the framing that banning defensive things makes the meta into a hyper offense fest. that isn't how those sorts of things work. if you look at metas like gen 6/7 pure hackmons from hpl, the vast majority of the unbans are offensive tools that make it easier to crush things, and offense is strong, but balance and stall are strong as well. there will always be some mons that win the fastest, from normalize to no guard ohko to pdon clicking v-create, and as long as it's physically possible to survive these, balance and stall will be good options because they can more easily play defensively.
rather, the healthy thing about fc/scales is how general they are. any mon being able to run scales and have that work against 50% of attacks in the game is cool, because it allows for more freeform teambuilding while still being far from invincible. one scales mon isn't even close to beating every special attacker in the game, and even beyond that hazards and status are so accessible that you'll need to give that scales mon a lot of support if you want it to do its job long-term. it's also unlikely that you'll be able to go very far if you're too reliant on passive loser fc/scales that don't actually do damage or make progress ever.
if fc/scales left, the meta would just be a lot more matchup-dependent. it truly is fucked up when you can load a cb vcreate guy and expect to see no fc, but if this strategy becomes more common then everyone starts running well-baked body and oops you auto lose. that's not fun for either party. there could maybe still be consistency to be found somewhere, but it'd be brief and easily eclipsed by new breaking tools. getting better at the game wouldn't really mean a whole lot. i can tell you this after having played cfz gen7, pdon gen7, mray gen7, dgz gen8, calyrex-shadow gen8, etc etc
Tbf 50 turns is far from a long game even if you may be using a heavily offensive team.
1) PrankHaze only works vs stat stages, and not stuff like items or abilities(band, specs, plate, pixilate, SoR, etc)
2) Shore Up is super easy to pp stall out if you're using higher pp moves because of the recovery nerf, and even easier if you can keep up hazards and spread status like Poison or Paralysis(which technically doesn't waste pp, but it does make it more likely to break a mon because of full para turns so I'm counting it)
3) Most of the time, Imp is taking hazards chip every time it comes in, and with proper imp-proofing, it is very limited in what it's able to do, either being worn down over the course of a game if not managed properly by the imp user, or ending up being caught by something like block imp or Spirit Shackle mons and pp stalled out.
4) Regenvesters can be broken through with either strong physical attacks, good hazard support, removing their vests, inflicting poison, or some combination of these. They only heal 33% on a switch, and if you get up full spikes, that's 25%, so you only need to hit them for at least 8% to make progress, or if you hit them with a mspin poison, then that plus spikes is enough to force damage through regen.
5) I don't love Tidy Up for the same reason that I don't think Defog is as good as Spin is(assuming you don't get spinblocked), using it removes the hazards you set too, which essentially means that your opponent got a free spin on top of the free turn, not a stellar trade.
6) Tidy Up isn't technically guaranteed because Taunt exists.
7) Post team, you might just not have mons/sets that are good at taking out defensive cores.
8) 50 turn games aren't exactly a stall fest, it could just be a matter of getting chip and positioning breakers properly to actually break the cores that's responsible for the turn length.
does he know
anyways, if you really really dislike "long" (below average length) games for some reason try out some hyper offenses such as the misty terrain HO by akira in samples rn, in my experience it usually wins (or loses if you dont get the correct mu ig) in sub 30 turns
or if you just hate stall then get on the mg knock spikes ghostceus + a steel (freest stall 6-0 of all time as long as the steel isnt fucking terrible)
Didnt read the whole argument or at least that's what I'd call it, tbh furscales isnt the biggest problem. HO maniac here, id say smth like regenvest are the most annoying, but vest can be knocked off like someone said. Sunsteel+Moongeist are also amazing moves, magic guard is a great way to deal with chip like right clicker said. Also, any good team has some sort of imp proofing, so imposter is really just a good way to scout, and shore up having 8 pp is kinda sad. 8 pp isnt that hard to beat, but yeah I hate furscales, but it keeps the meta healthy
I’d say they have different purposes; if using a bulky setup set, I generally prefer GaG in most cases because it completely blocks Parting Shot while you get “soft-phased” by PShot using Magic Bounce.
How about the role compendium?
Although, someone probably should update it, since it wasn't touched since May.
Like, does anyone actually use Altaria-Mega?
The easiest way to break Fur Coat / Ice Scales, is to use a mixed attacker. Ash-Greninja is a good one for Sniper sets as it can use Frost Breath to hit Fur Coaters.
Special Attackers using Psystrike / Secret Sword still gets cut in half by Ice Scales, and only makes a difference against RegenVesters, so I would say Alakazam-Mega feels a bit too niche to count as a Mixed Attacker.
Although, someone probably should update it, since it wasn't touched since May.
Like, does anyone actually use Altaria-Mega?
The easiest way to break Fur Coat / Ice Scales, is to use a mixed attacker. Ash-Greninja is a good one for Sniper sets as it can use Frost Breath to hit Fur Coaters.
Special Attackers using Psystrike / Secret Sword still gets cut in half by Ice Scales, and only makes a difference against RegenVesters, so I would say Alakazam-Mega feels a bit too niche to count as a Mixed Attacker.
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I would say using a Body Press on a predominantly Special Attacker, like Dialga-Origin is much more effective than Secret Sword, since it bypasses Ice Scales, and still has basically the same base power. If you use Stamina, it can work well with not just Body Press, but also Take Heart, to promote mixed walling.
Pokemon like Dialga-Origin, etc., can exploit this, especially since they have good resistances.
Throw on a Take Heart, with Stamina, and you have yourself a mixed wall, and a mixed attacker.
Dialga-Origin @ Adamant Crystal / Covert Cloak
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Take Heart
- Body Press
- Strength Sap
- Doom Desire / Revelation Dance
Arceus can also be a decent option, especially if the Ghost-type uses No Retreat and Simple.
Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- No Retreat
- Triple Arrows
- Judgment
- Strength Sap
Pokemon like Dialga-Origin, etc., can exploit this, especially since they have good resistances.
Throw on a Take Heart, with Stamina, and you have yourself a mixed wall, and a mixed attacker.
Dialga-Origin @ Adamant Crystal / Covert Cloak
Ability: Stamina
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Take Heart
- Body Press
- Strength Sap
- Doom Desire / Revelation Dance
Arceus can also be a decent option, especially if the Ghost-type uses No Retreat and Simple.
Arceus-Ghost @ Spooky Plate
Ability: Simple
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- No Retreat
- Triple Arrows
- Judgment
- Strength Sap
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personally not a believer of this mon but i know some people who are. also on the role compedium i don't think its really a priority bc anything runs anything
i think the main problem of this set is that stamina is 100% outclassed by fur coat until you get hit 2 times, and before that good luck surviving most physical attackers because you don't have the bulk of fur coat starting off. also a topsy guy comes in and its joever
i actually theorized on this a bit before because you don't get ruined by sap unlike tarrows, but you miss out on some power (for instance you never kill +def evio chans from full if it has topsy) and you'd really miss that flinch chance and def drops tarrows gave
Role Compendium... Does anyone use Ultra Necrozma other than the SFLO aerobee samp?
Also I feel Celesteela is overrated, what does it do that others can't?
Stone Axe Nihilego..is it even used? And correct me if I'm wrong but I have not seen a single Ash Gren that runs Knock Off.
Also I feel Celesteela is overrated, what does it do that others can't?
Stone Axe Nihilego..is it even used? And correct me if I'm wrong but I have not seen a single Ash Gren that runs Knock Off.
Also does anyone by any chance have a Scarf Solgaleo Team? Or a Prim Sea one, just want to use the mon. Thanks
ultra necrozma is pretty cool and flexible in its sets (stuff like magic guard or dragon's maw has been used) but it is fairly hard to just slot on teams as a secondary breaker because it's hard to improof, you have to build your team around it as a primary breaker
also it's just kind of boring to use imo
be immune to spikes, ground and poison (+ mortal spin) all in one. also decent bulk and very cool set of resistances otherwise.
saxe nihilego is in fact not used commonly yes (which brings me to my point earlier on the non-priority of updating compendium)
knock should be defacto last moveslot on band agren idk why ladder isnt running it
https://pokepast.es/35495ff6364118fa you never said the team needed to be good :trollface:
has to be good:)
I can confirm that people other than the SFLO aerobee sample use UNecro, because I am currently top 15 with a team featuring non-SFLO UNecro.
Stamina is not outclassed, as it boosts Body Press, and is not bypassed via Mold Breaker / Sunsteel Strike, while Fur Coat does not.
Fur Coat can also be impacted by Entrainment Normalizers, while Stamina could have already collected boosts. I use Dialga with Revelation Dance to break Flutter-Mane.
Dialga is a common switch-into moves, and lives long enough to endure hits. Strength Sap also reduces the foe’s Atk, letting it stall out even before +2.
Body Press justifies Stamina, and that allows it to hit off both sides of Physical and Special.
I switched to T-Arrows bc it’s a great way to punish walls like Ting-Lu since it loves to switch in, and if it loses -1, it has to switch out. The fact that it can flinch or Crit well only strengthens it.
Body Press makes more sense on a Pokémon that has more than +2 Defense if it lacks STAB unless it has way higher Defense…
SlowBro-Mega is another Body Press option in a Body Press, Scald, Strength Sap, and Salt Cure or some utility move set, more as a threatening wall, than a wall-breaker.
Any Arceus form weak to Body Press takes a 3HKO, on the side it tends to not boost (Defense).
252+ Def Slowbro-Mega Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 170-202 (38.2 - 45.4%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Not bad for a wall, without setup. And I have been seeing more Dark and Normal Arceus lately.
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consider that most moldy/sunsteel users (
, 
, 
, etc) just completely blow you apart regardless of staminathis is irrelevant no viable normalize user cares about your def boosts from stamina
One problem. Nothing's stopping the enemy from just... clicking haze or topsy turvy.
That applies to each set-up Pokémon. Even Triage ones that outspeed Prankster are unable to maintain their boosts if the foe survives.
What does that have to do with Stamina, specifically?
If they already sent in their Hazer/Topsy Turvy, didn’t you already force out the Pokémon that allowed you to accumulate boosts? And that allows you to land a hit on the switch / pivot in. If that pivot is Volt Switch, or U-Turn, then they just gave you a Stamina boost to push up Body Press.
If the Hazer / Topsy Turvy user isn’t using Prankster (I.e. so Topsy Turvy isn’t blocked by Dark-types), then they have to outspeed or survive.
I see Haze / Topsy Turvy on Pokémon like Audino-Mega, and Dialga’s Steel-type Revelation Dance threatens it with a 2HKO without any boost, and Dialga outspeeds it.
One problem... Topsy isnt limited to mega audino.