BH Balanced Hackmons

[Akira 153]

Post-HPL Teamdump! Includes every team I built or used + some co-builds.

W1 vs willdbeast:

This is just a minor edit of a team I was planning on loading vs Cityscapes in OMPL, so it's pretty out of date with meta trends. Not particularly surprising I lost although the game itself ended up close because Will loaded the wrong team. Pikachu is a great counter to sniper Gren teams who'd have guessed LOL.

W1 for Pannuracotta vs Quantum Tesseract:

Pretty solid balance team although a bit slow and not amazing into hazstack. Banded Chomper is good into QT structures and having the slower pivot in regen Ferro made it seem like a pretty comfy MU, and it was.

W1 for Wheaty vs SammyCe123
See Wheaty's teamdump (first team)

W2 vs Ivar57:

Fun team that incorporates a pretty damn functional 5-mon superman core with a deceptive setup sweeper Unecro. For the record I'm pretty sure I would have won the game even if I had lost the Unecro tie unless Ivar got every read right with their own Unecro.

W2 for Wheaty vs TTTech

See my RMT

W3 vs Stolen Identity

Pretty neat team since I knew SI structures wouldn't be good into Webs and would either be weak to Blaziken or Knock off MGarde without their speed control. It worked like a charm. Although SI did have bounce and it could have gotten messier, I still had a pretty overwhelmingly favorable MU.

W4 vs NightEdge

Sample Team.

W4 for Wheaty vs RoFnA

Hyper offense team I used to kick Clas out of seasonal earlier this year. Pretty fun. Worked well vs RoFnA because their teams are typically either offensive or cheesy (although to their credit they avoided being too predictable by bringing some fat balances during the tour), and those will struggle against a HO with fast breakers, prankbond, sapblocking to exploit frail defensive cores and strong prio in Iron Valiant.

W5 vs big tony 2014

This team isn't very good as it was trying to force a bunch of incompatible concepts on to one team. Tony also got passed a hallward team with a very favorable matchup, which was a nice read vs me. Rockceus is awesome but it needed better team support and synergy than this trash.

W5 for Kabilapok vs Tack - reuse of WELCOME ❤ HELL

Playoffs vs RoFnA

Sample Team. I shouldn't have used this IDK why I didn't build or even just reuse a better team. I think I was basing it off HO working well into RoFnA back in w4, but that was clearly a bad decision.

Playoffs for Pannuracotta vs NightEdge

This team is an antique I built just before OMPL. But the strategy of slamming a bunch of breakers together won't be so easily broken by meta shifts.

Finals vs Sevag

This is an ancient g7bh team that I knew I'd be bringing from the moment I slotted in. Originally built by card but I know this team from the edit by Dino. I changed around some of the Items to include TOrb Imposter to counter Sevag's love for Poison Heal, but it wasn't necessary because FF Aegis bullied their whole team.

 

[Fish Gaming]

Shall Not Pass (v2 because no retreat / clangsoul is banned)
https://pokepast.es/c85a76d1e5da31d0

SAMPLE TEAM SUBMISSION

Pretty solid team to abuse typical QT balances. Of course the one time I did use it on QT he bought HO.

(changed the yveltal to mg setup because imp trap is banned)

 

[Fish Gaming]

Threat Assessment - DLC2 V1 (Pre-OMPL)
VR updated so time for this update, also 1k post cool​

This is basically a congregation of the meta mons, the sets they run, and how to check/counter them, except this time I skipped some of the more defensive mons because I am lazy (also with OMPL pretty likely to have major meta shifts). List is in order of viability rankings (as of May 15), Pokemon that can check/counter regardless of their own set are placed at the end to avoid confusion. More niche checks are separated by a |. Here are the BH analyses and the setpedia if you don't know the sets.
This also serves as an option for players to consider some Pokemon lower on the viability rankings as options on teams instead of recycling defensive cores. This is likely not comprehensive and there's a guaranteed chance that I've missed something so let me know on Discord if I need to change anything. (Yes this is pre-OMPL I had this written up before w1 games).

Legend

Do note that in BH generally "checks and counters" are used less traditionally compared to most other metas. In normal discussions and such "checks" typically refer to Pokemon that can answer the typical sets or most moves on a Choiced set (basically act as a generally accepted defensive answer, see Sometimes Counters and below) while "counters" typically refer to Pokemon that can answer practically every viable set and/or go beyond by limiting even other progress making attempts (e.g. blocking hazards, Spins, Sap recovery) (see Generally Counters).

Generally Counters: Counters most viable variants of the set
Sometimes Counters: Counters some variants of the set, typically dependent on coverage
Soft Checks: Generally shaky as an answer and is not reliable as the only answer (such as requiring to be near full health to avoid range or taking huge damage from a coverage), or a defensive pivot that can take hits and bring in teammates safely
Offensive Checks: Offensive threats that win the 1v1, typically by either outspeeding or surviving any hit and OHKOing back. Generally relies on pivots from "Soft Checks"

It is important to realize that the answers vary depending on the sets threats use and so identifying the set is highly important. Imposter or bulky Regen scouting are obvious choices but it is also possible to guess the set through looking at the team. For offensive Pokemon looking at potential opposing Improofs and for defensive Pokemon look at their partners and basic threat check to infer the ability (also calc, calcing can basically immediately give away offensive ability + item or defensive FurScales).
Notes: (SpD) refers to either RegenVest or Ice Scales. Normalize Pokemon can offensively check anything that cannot touch them are are slower so I'll exclude them.

Sniper

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) |

Choice Band Sniper AshGren has one of the highest raw damage outputs in the meta, combined with good neutral coverage STABs and coverage allows it to basically 3HKO even the bulkiest defensive answers. Considering that it outspeeds almost all of them as well it forces immediate recovery, which demands that defensive answers are not easily Sapblocked. Dark resists are valuable, especially in tandem with Rocky Helmet to harshly punish Surging Strikes. The few defensive answers that outspeed AshGren are more resilient as they can play less conservatively. It should be noted that AshGren frequently runs Frost Breath, which while it rarely wants to click will harshly punish several otherwise solid switch-ins.

Special Setup

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (Fur Coat) | (FurScales)
Sometimes Counters: (Plate Imposter) (Ice Scales) (Unaware)
Soft Checks: (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: |

Ghostceus primarily sets up through Take Heart or Nasty Plot, though Torch Song is seen occassionally. With typing and potential defense boosts granted by Fur Coat and Take Heart it can be challenging to threaten Ghostceus. Ghostceus is also unique in able to run Recover and also bypass Blissey with Secret Sword. Without Magic Guard Ghostceus is annoyed by Salt Cure, and if it also lacks Take Heart then Mortal Spin becomes threatening. Topsy-Turvy users can shut down reasonably well, especially when combined with slow pivoting and a revenge-killer. It should be noted that while rare, Speed Boost and Rapid Spin can completely reverse the matchup on offensive checks. Different Ice Scales Pokemon can also engage in setup wars and usually come on top thanks to Scales, but it should be noted that Tidy Up sets lose against Strength Sap variants. Plate Imposter is decent but can easily be denied healing by opposing Imposter or get Knocked.

No Retreat

Generally Counters: (Plate Imposter) (Ice Scales) (Fur Coat) (Prankster)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (Unaware)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks:

Dealing with No Retreat Ghostceus typically involves neutralizing its stat boosts. Topsy-Turvy completely shuts it down while Strength Sap practically guarantees at least one full heal and neutralizes the Attack. Covert Cloak on checks provide a lot of safety due to side effects from coverage. Also due to one-time setup various Take Heart users can setup, as well as Tidy Up sets due to lack of Strength Sap. Plate Imposter is significantly better here and Eviolite Imposter also can PP stall some Judgments in a pinch. Offensive checking is nearly impossible due to stat boosts, though despite not being listed a full health AshGren lives against Poison-move variants and OHKOs back with Wicked Blow.

Choice Specs

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest) (Primordial Sea) |
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (RegenVest) (Ice Scales) | (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) (Choice Scarf) |

Mega Alakazam's raw power and coverage options make it challenging it to answer it consistently, often requiring abusing the choice lock. Moongeist Beam boasts enough power to 2HKO Ice Scales users after the slightest chip, while most resists to it are threatened by STAB or coverage. Psycho Boost also deals enough to Ice Scales users to force recovery, meaning dealing with Sapblocks are necessary. RegenVests that are not susceptible to massive damage are excellent midgrounds to scout choice lock. Imposter can check if needed due to Zam's high SpD and BoR cancelling out. Due to its speed there are limited offensive checks. Should be noted that MegaZam does have a degree of 4MSS so there is a small possibility where its missing one of Moongeist/Fire/Fleur coverage, allowing more stuff to answer it.

Setup

Generally Counters: (RegenVest) (Primordial Sea) | (Primordial Sea)
Sometimes Counters: (Imposter) (RegenVest) (Ice Scales)
Soft Checks: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: |

Eternatus pretty much always runs Dragon Energy, a Poison move, and Torch Song. Despite having a fixed moveset, it can be deceptively difficult to answer especially with the varied abilities. Magic Guard provides the most power, immunity to chip, and can bypass Blissey with Shell Side Arm. Teravolt is rarer currently but punishes Ice Scales. Unaware generally takes a more defensive role but can flip the matchup against Take Heart users. RegenVests are generally a great check due to reliable SpD boosts and threatening with Knock or pivoting, but needs to be wary of status. Offensive checks can work well with Etern's somewhat awkward Speed and lack of boosting.

Take Heart

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales)
Sometimes Counters: (Unaware) (Ice Scales - typing dependent) |
Soft Checks: (Salt Cure)
Offensive Checks: (Typically need chip)

I'm going to be extremely lazy here and lump these together. Take Heart Arceus is generally all very similar in set, running something along STAB + Thunder Cage + Sap + Take Heart. There may be small deviations for formes like Electric and Water. These sets need to attempt to selfproof which makes them susceptible to Sapblock. Salt Cure is one of the more splashable countermeasures, as it allows a healthy Imposter to 1v1, and most Salt users are RegenVest which retains momentum. Topsy-Turvy is another option that can force out, though most users can be susceptible to TCage chip. Engaging in Take Heart wars can be an option, especially with advantageous typing and/or Scales vs FC. Slow pivoting and faster nuclear wallbreakers can revenge-kill at varying health levels depending on boosts ability and typing, physical have an advantage.

Flare Boost

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest) | (Sand Stream)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) (Choice Scarf) |

Flare Boost has a lot of unique traits for a special wallbreaker. It is not choice locked, is resilient to Knock Off, has a good matchup into Blissey, and still has the coveted STAB Moongeist Beam. The latter makes it very difficult for most Ice Scales users to handle. Ice Scales Normal-types serve as very good answers, and physically oriented Ice Scales with enough bulk to sponge +2 attacks can retaliate hard, taking advantage of Flutter's low defense and chip from Flame Orb. The set also has less raw power compared to Specs, making some RegenVest users good sponges, which can always pivot into revenge-killers or Imposter.

Choice Specs

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) |
Sometimes Counters: (RegenVest)
Soft Checks: (RegenVest) | (Sand Stream) (Ice Scales)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) (Choice Scarf) |

Choice Specs, in comparison, boasts more immediate power and coverage, allowing Flutter to hit many key thresholds. The tradeoff is worse longevity and inability to switch moves. That being said, one wrong predict can leave a check severely weakened. Select RegenVest users as usual act as excellent sponges due to the threat of Moongeist Beam, though a Normal teammate is highly recommended. Ability Shield is incredibly niche and not listed but does work against Moongeist Beam.

Tidy Up

Generally Counters: (Cloak Imposter) (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks:

Arceus-Ground is the primary Tidy Up Arceus forme, though other formes like Fairy can also utilize a similar set. The most dangerous aspect of this set is Spirit Shackle trapping something that cannot handle it. Otherwise, Arceus's modest offensive power along with the prevalence of Strength Sap mean its not the most challenging to handle it. In particular, due to lack of anti Special setup, Take Heart Arceus formes can actually setup on this. It is also susceptible to status.

Mixed Offensive

Generally Counters: (Primordial Sea)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat) (Primordial Sea) (Ice Scales)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Ice Scales) (Fur Coat) (SpD) |
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) |

The most common set is Sheer Force, but alternate mixed offensive sets also exist, notably Adaptability which has significantly more immediate power. Theoretically very challenging to handle due to flexibility of switching moves and impressive coverage + power, but despite lack of Choice-lock it still needs to make correct predictions to hit 2HKOs. It is also susceptible to all forms of status, Knock Off, chip damage, as well as being at an awkward speed tier.

Setup

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Speed tie Imposter) (RegenVest) (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: (Only at +1) (Pixilate) | (Only at +1)

Setup Mega Garchomp mostly runs Tidy Up/Shift Gear, STABs, and Jungle Healing, but can also forgo recovery for coverage like Electro Drift. It has enough power after one boost to basically force high bulk Fur Coats as immediately answers, and it can still 2HKO a good amount of them. It is worth noting that MegaChomp misses some crucial benchmarks without Life Orb, and also that both of its commonly run STABs render it more vulnerable to retaliation. Strength Sap is generally a decent stop to it, though it does have the same PP as the setup moves. It is also worth noting that the ability + item are reasonably flexible which can be teched around certain counterplay.

Choice Band

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters:
Soft Checks: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: |

Choice Band boasts more initial power and coverage but has the weakness of being slow and prediction reliant due to both STABs having immunities. Slower Fur Coats however risk getting 2HKOed or hit by coverage. Due to no speed boosts there are significantly more options for offensive checking (almost every offensive Pokemon works).

Magic Guard

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) | (Ice Scales)
Soft Checks: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: |

Eternatus but with Thunder Cage over Poison STAB. Chip from Cage can be annoying against various walls but lack of the Poison STAB options makes select walls difficult to bypass. Keeping Miraidon chipped is highly useful as it neuters Dragon Energy power.

Offensive

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Regenerator) (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: |

Mega Lucario has the option to go Life Orb but the sets are basically identical. STAB Sunsteel Strike is unique and allows it to deal moderate damage to a lot of conventional Fur Coats, which can be combined with Sapblock effectively. It is however slow while not boasting as much power as Mega Garchomp, making faster walls annoying.

Magic Guard

Generally Counters: (Magic Guard/Unaware) (Fur Coat) (Primordial Sea)
Sometimes Counters: (Primordial Sea)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Fur Coat)
Offensive Checks: (Choice Band) |

V-create gives this set surprising output against neutral targets. The use of Swords Dance also means several Strength Sap users will lose considering Ho-Oh's natural bulk, though at the cost of being susceptible to revenge-killing. This set also needs to make some accurate predicts around Strength Sap against some walls to win the matchup. Some offensive threats have enough bulk to tank and KO back. Removing Life Orb makes Ho-Oh miss out on many benchmarks.

Choice Band

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) (Regenerator) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters:
Soft Checks: (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate: |

Koraidon lacks a lot of the power that Garchomp has, but its Speed tier lets it run Teravolt and 2HKO fast walls like Arceus formes. Alongside coverage it can be difficult to check defensively outside of making accurate predicts. However, in practice Koraidon's lacking power means it will struggle for opportunities to force switches. Full health +Def Arceus also is very unlikely to be 2HKOed.

No Retreat

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) |
Sometimes Counters: (Plate Imposter) (RegenVest) |
Soft Checks: (Ice Scales)
Offensive Checks:

No Retreat Lunala's main threat is usually less about it being a problem but more about it using Final Gambit to pave the way for its teammates such as No Retreat Arceus-Ghost. As such it is imperative to play around the possibility, and having back up checks is highly helpful (such as Yveltal + Scales). Unlike Ghostceus, Lunala's moveset is generally more rigid, making answers consistent, but it does boast a very strong Stored Power. Lunala lacks the Knock Off resistance that Arceus-Ghost has, and ceases to function when Knocked due to a reasonably healthy Imposter walling, so RegenVest Steels which can all generally take a hit can counter. Topsy-Turvy also immediately forces Lunala out. Offensive checks are non existent outside of AshGren who can take a boosted hit.

Choice Band

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Soft Checks: (Fur Coat) |
Offensive Checks: |

Mega Blaziken, similar to Ho-Oh, relies on V-create to dish out large amounts of damage. Tinted Lens is one of the more common abilities on Blaziken, making Fur Coat more important as natural resists get blown apart. Because of V-create's Speed drops, many walls have the possibility of outspeeding it after one and Strength Sap if Sapblocking isn't an issue (it will be). Other damage amplifying abilities output more on neutral targets making some of those shakier. Note that while this is for Choice Band, Choice Scarf is a rare set but viable and is advised to scout out damage.

Setup

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales)
Soft Checks: (RegenVest) (Ice Scales) |
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) |

Palkia-Origin unique Water STAB and STAB coverage allows it to run a more unique set among special attackers. Speed Boost is better and more common and prevents revenge-killing, but Magic Guard has the potential to farm slower teams. Its main weakness is a dependency on Dragon Energy but being weak to Mortal and Salt without Magic Guard, and MG variants are prone to being dealt with by AV pivot -> RK by almost every faster mon.

Choice Band

Generally Counters: (Fur Coat) | (Fur Coat)
Sometimes Counters: (Primordial Sea)
Soft Checks: (Fur Coat) (Primordial Sea) |
Offensive Checks: |

Kyurem-B has the same damage output as Band Garchomp, Glacial Lance with no immunities is spammable which is its main appeal. The tradeoff is a crippling weakness to Rocks, making maintaining rocks a good counterplay. The coverage choice also is slightly different which changes up some counterplay. Note that similar to Garchomp several "counters" rely on getting reliable Strength Saps.

Pixilate

Generally Counters: (Ice Scales) (Primordial Sea)
Sometimes Counters: (Ice Scales) (Primordial Sea)
Soft Checks: (Imposter) (Ice Scales) (RegenVest)
Offensive Checks: (Choice Scarf) |

Mega Gardevoir has one of the most spammable special moves that with its neutral coverage allows it to wear down many Ice Scales Pokemon rapidly. If given enough opportunities it will be able to break down teams, but its Speed and lacking physical bulk are both exploitable. Psystrike is usually run which can punish RegenVests hard but it is still favourable to have it be locked into not Boomburst. Ice Scales Strength Sap users that avoid being Sapblocked are the best answers.

Normalize

Generally Counters: (Magic Bounce in general) (Plate Imposter) (Revelation Dance)
Sometimes Counters: (Revelation Dance) (Judgment)
Soft Checks: (Taunt) (Prankster Glare) (Parting Shot)
Offensive Checks: (Pixilate) (Choice Scarf) |

Normalize is pretty linear in terms of checks. Magic Bounce completely counters it and denies any other commonly used moves like Spikes and Taunt. Most Judgment/Revelation Dance users are capable of dealing good damage back, though non-AV are at risk of being outdamaged if Taunted. Flutter Mane also can run Pixie Plate to pressure Dark-types. Certain status moves like Glare are not neutralized by Normalize but risk running into the common Taunt. Taunt also can act as a soft check and force 50/50s against opposing Taunt. Strong priority and faster Pokemon are also effective checks as Normalize does not run speed boosting and Flutter Mane lacks Def. Arceus-Ghost deserves a special mention as it lacks Speed but instead is significantly more resilient to attacks, including Knock Off.

can you update this tea

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

Are you tired of your opponent clicking moves in your competitive generation 9 Balanced Hackmons pokemon battle? Are you disheartened when their FC, Scales or Regen walls simply recover off all your damage? Do you not want to stack hazards to get the 2hkos you need to break through? Well I have the perfect solution for you.

I am here this wonderful evening to present the solution to your problems. The salvation to your suffering. The chance for you to engage your opponent in a battle of equal footing. The convergence of all luck-based strategies: Paralysis and Flinch hax on your offensive mons. The theory is simple. You don't need to 2hko your opponent's walls if you can simply stop your opponent from playing in your competitive generation 9 Balanced Hackmons pokemon battle. Just think about it: your 3hkos or 4hkos are basically OHKOs if your opponent doesn't move between your attacks. This is what these sets are all about: removing your opponent's ability to play in your game.

Lopunny-Mega @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Population Bomb
- Dynamic Punch
- Zap Cannon
- Gunk Shot / Magma Storm

Pheromosa @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Population Bomb
- Dynamic Punch
- Focus Blast / U-turn / Magma Storm / Gunk Shot
- Zap Cannon / U-turn / Magma Storm / Gunk Shot

Necrozma-Ultra @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Population Bomb
- Magma Storm
- Zap Cannon
- Strength Sap / Focus Blast / Gunk Shot

Blaziken-Mega @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Magma Storm
- Dynamic Punch / Focus Blast
- Population Bomb
- Zap Cannon

Kyogre-Primal @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Population Bomb
- Zap Cannon
- Magma Storm
- Strength Sap

The first set I am sharing is No Guard + King's Rock + Population Bomb. I think that No Guard got a big upgrade this gen in the form of Population Bomb. Normally, the chance of hitting all 10 is 0.9^10 ≈ 35%. With No Guard, we can ignore the need of Wide Lens or Coil accuracy boosts and always hit all 10. This move has 200 BP which is equivalent to STAB 133 BP move.

Next is the fun part. With the power of King's Rock, every single instance of Population Bomb gives you a 10% chance to flinch. The chance of Population Bomb flinching after 10 hits is:

1 - (chance to miss 10% flinch)^(number of hits) =
1 - (0.9)^(10) ≈ 65%

This is even higher than Serene Grace Triple Arrows/Iron Head. Furthermore, No Guard enables you to run other fun hax moves such as Zap Cannon and Dynamic Punch. Magma Storm is also an extremely good move by itself thanks to its high power and partial trapping effect. The chance to "stun" a mon under different circumstances are below:

1. Raw KR + PB = 65%
2. Para/Confuse + KRPB = 1 - (0.35 * 0.75) = 74%
3. Confuse + Para + KRPB = 1 - (0.35 * 0.75 * 0.75) = 80%

As you can see there is a diminishing effect so most of the time stacking 2 is good enough.

Regarding the mon choice, there are several options you could run. I'd separate them into two categories. The first is the fast mons that don't need to hit Zap Cannon before doing stuff (Lopunny, Necrozma, Pheromosa) and the second is the ones that need to Para (Blaziken, Kyogre, also Necrozma) because they are slower than Arceus. I'd say you shouldn't run recovery on the fast mons but you can consider it on the second group since they are a bit tankier. Also you should probably go +Atk or +SpAtk on the second group since you're not very fast in the first place.

Some people might argue that you can never click Population Bomb because of the risk of dying to Rocky Helmet. Others might say these sets are walled by Cover Cloak altogether. But I have a counterpoint: mons can only run one of these items at a time, so you'll always have the option to break through regardless of which item they have. Opponent walls have Rocky Helmet? Well, they are vulnerable to Zap Cannon para and Magma Storm chip as well as hazards chip. Opponent walls have Covert Cloak? well, Covert Cloak doesn't block the base damage from Population Bomb, Zap Cannon and Magma Storm. Finally there is always the option to Knock them first with your other mons.

Here are some calcs to give you some idea of the damage you can be expecting.

Baseline SF LO Necrozma calc for reference
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Necrozma-Ultra Luster Purge vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 222-263 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Necrozma-Ultra Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 214-253 (48.1 - 56.9%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO

Population Bomb

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 250-300 (56.3 - 67.5%) -- approx. 2HKO


252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 190-230 (42.7 - 51.8%) -- approx. 3.5% chance to 2HKO


252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 200-240 (45 - 54%) -- approx. 28.5% chance to 2HKO


252 Atk Kyogre-Primal Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 170-210 (38.2 - 47.2%) -- approx. 3HKO

Just imagine this scenario. You Zap Cannon the Arceus on the switch. Arceus wants to Take Heart or Recover. You flinch them with Population Bomb. Now the Arceus is in range of another Population Bomb so they have to switch out. This is an extremely advantageous position for you. You can replace Arceus with any other wall in the example, though results may slightly vary depending on their items, the para + flinch combination is extremely lethal. Even if you're only doing like 25% with Population Bomb on a FC wall, you only need 2 stuns in a row to kill them with Zap Cannon or Magma Storm. Such is the power of these sets.

Finally, I'll talk a bit about Imposter proofing. The standard Improofs are Rocky Helmet and Cover Cloak walls that can wall the moves that their item cannot. For example, FC is pretty good since you can't get paralysed. is immune to Population Bomb and Dynamic Punch while resisting Magma Storm and Zap Cannon so you can wall with Take Heart or Jungle Healing.

Lopunny-Mega @ Wide Lens
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Population Bomb
- Sacred Sword
- Kowtow Cleave / Knock Off / Stone Axe
- Behemoth Blade / Knock Off / Stone Axe

The next set is Sharpness Lopunny. If you don't know, Population Bomb is actually boosted by Sharpness which means you do a ton of damage even without a boosting item. There's not much to say except that this mon can 2hko even non-resists FCs with two Population Bomb and a bit of chip:

Sharpness Bunny Population Bomb

252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Arceus: 180-220 (40.5 - 49.5%) -- approx. 3HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Audino-Mega: 160-210 (39 - 51.2%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Zamazenta: 190-240 (49 - 62%) -- approx. 96.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Koraidon: 190-240 (47 - 59.4%) -- approx. 82.4% chance to 2HKO

The reason why I said FC non-resists is because FC Steels and Ghosts are kinda uncommon since don't wall popular physical mons like Blaziken, Greninja and Garchomp. I will admit that they do wall this set though. But if they are not FC then you can break through:

Coverage vs non-FCs

252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus-Ghost: 200-236 (45 - 53.1%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 180-210 (45.2 - 52.7%) -- approx. 31.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 248-294 (68.1 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Anyways damage-wise, this Lopunny will not dissapoint.

Flutter Mane @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infernal Parade
- Moonblast
- Glare
- Pain Split

Giratina-Origin / Lunala / Necrozma-Dawn-Wings @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Glare
- Infernal Parade
- Strength Sap / Recover / Combat Torque / Psychic / Noxious Torque
- Combat Torque / Psychic / Noxious Torque

The next and final set is SF LO Glare Infernal Parade Ghosts. If you don't know, Sheer Force doesn't remove the 2x multiplier from Infernal Parade but it does remove the burn chance and provide a damage boost. These sets are not meant to be solo breakers since they don't carry much coverage so you can get walled. Instead, they are meant to support another breaker by paralysing walls and offensive mons. Flutter Mane doesn't need introductions, Infernal Parade + Moonblast is already perfect coverage and you can just glare + pain split through Scales mons.

The second set of mons are a lot more defensive compared to Flutter Mane. These mons are much more reliant on Glare to do stuff since they are so slow. However they can be used as soft checks to offensive mons since they are much bulkier, so it's a trade-off. The differences between these ghost types are quite small and it really depends on what your team needs typing-wise. I definitely recommend recovery though since you want these ones to stick around and Glare stuff. The 4th move also depends on what you need. Combat and Noxious Torque are very solid options to hit Steels and Audino respectively. You can run the other STAB (Order Up or Psychic) but I think it's worse than coverage since you want to click Infernal Parade and Glare most of the time.

The damage of SF LO boosted Infernal Parade is definitely no joke by the way.

Here is Specs Flutter for reference:
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Flutter Mane Astral Barrage vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 282-332 (63.5 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 238-281 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Bulkier Ghosts Infernal Parade

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Necrozma-Dawn-Wings Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 292-344 (65.7 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lunala Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 265-312 (59.6 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Giratina-Origin Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 239-282 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Giratina Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 192-227 (43.2 - 51.1%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO

You can see even the weakest option, neutral Giratina with a measly 100 base Sp.Atk, is able to 2hko Arceus with a little bit of chip. NDW actually outdamages specs adapt Flutter Astral Barrage.

Here are some miscellaneous calcs vs other mons

Other Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Dialga-Origin: 144-172 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eternatus: 278-329 (57.4 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Giratina-Origin Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Dialga-Origin: 146-173 (36.1 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Giratina-Origin Combat Torque vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Dialga-Origin: 244-289 (60.3 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Giratina-Origin Noxious Torque vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega: 234-278 (57 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre-Primal: 118-140 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 6.4% chance to 3HKO

All you need to break through RegenVest and Scales mon is to get one or two Paralysis. The bulky ghosts are also able to tank one hit from an offensive mon and cripple them with Glare for the rest of the game.

tl;dr Paralysis and Flinch Hax is the final frontier of competitive Pokemon.

 

[NoobSpammer]

Are you tired of your opponent clicking moves in your competitive generation 9 Balanced Hackmons pokemon battle? Are you disheartened when their FC, Scales or Regen walls simply recover off all your damage? Do you not want to stack hazards to get the 2hkos you need to break through? Well I have the perfect solution for you.

I am here this wonderful evening to present the solution to your problems. The salvation to your suffering. The chance for you to engage your opponent in a battle of equal footing. The convergence of all luck-based strategies: Paralysis and Flinch hax on your offensive mons. The theory is simple. You don't need to 2hko your opponent's walls if you can simply stop your opponent from playing in your competitive generation 9 Balanced Hackmons pokemon battle. Just think about it: your 3hkos or 4hkos are basically OHKOs if your opponent doesn't move between your attacks. This is what these sets are all about: removing your opponent's ability to play in your game.

Lopunny-Mega @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Population Bomb
- Dynamic Punch
- Zap Cannon
- Gunk Shot / Magma Storm

Pheromosa @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Population Bomb
- Dynamic Punch
- Focus Blast / U-turn / Magma Storm / Gunk Shot
- Zap Cannon / U-turn / Magma Storm / Gunk Shot

Necrozma-Ultra @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Population Bomb
- Magma Storm
- Zap Cannon
- Strength Sap / Focus Blast / Gunk Shot

Blaziken-Mega @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Magma Storm
- Dynamic Punch / Focus Blast
- Population Bomb
- Zap Cannon

Kyogre-Primal @ King's Rock
Ability: No Guard
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Mild Nature
- Population Bomb
- Zap Cannon
- Magma Storm
- Strength Sap

The first set I am sharing is No Guard + King's Rock + Population Bomb. I think that No Guard got a big upgrade this gen in the form of Population Bomb. Normally, the chance of hitting all 10 is 0.9^10 ≈ 35%. With No Guard, we can ignore the need of Wide Lens or Coil accuracy boosts and always hit all 10. This move has 200 BP which is equivalent to STAB 133 BP move.

Next is the fun part. With the power of King's Rock, every single instance of Population Bomb gives you a 10% chance to flinch. The chance of Population Bomb flinching after 10 hits is:

1 - (chance to miss 10% flinch)^(number of hits) =
1 - (0.9)^(10) ≈ 65%

This is even higher than Serene Grace Triple Arrows/Iron Head. Furthermore, No Guard enables you to run other fun hax moves such as Zap Cannon and Dynamic Punch. Magma Storm is also an extremely good move by itself thanks to its high power and partial trapping effect. The chance to "stun" a mon under different circumstances are below:

1. Raw KR + PB = 65%
2. Para/Confuse + KRPB = 1 - (0.35 * 0.75) = 74%
3. Confuse + Para + KRPB = 1 - (0.35 * 0.75 * 0.75) = 80%

As you can see there is a diminishing effect so most of the time stacking 2 is good enough.

Regarding the mon choice, there are several options you could run. I'd separate them into two categories. The first is the fast mons that don't need to hit Zap Cannon before doing stuff (Lopunny, Necrozma, Pheromosa) and the second is the ones that need to Para (Blaziken, Kyogre, also Necrozma) because they are slower than Arceus. I'd say you shouldn't run recovery on the fast mons but you can consider it on the second group since they are a bit tankier. Also you should probably go +Atk or +SpAtk on the second group since you're not very fast in the first place.

Some people might argue that you can never click Population Bomb because of the risk of dying to Rocky Helmet. Others might say these sets are walled by Cover Cloak altogether. But I have a counterpoint: mons can only run one of these items at a time, so you'll always have the option to break through regardless of which item they have. Opponent walls have Rocky Helmet? Well, they are vulnerable to Zap Cannon para and Magma Storm chip as well as hazards chip. Opponent walls have Covert Cloak? well, Covert Cloak doesn't block the base damage from Population Bomb, Zap Cannon and Magma Storm. Finally there is always the option to Knock them first with your other mons.

Here are some calcs to give you some idea of the damage you can be expecting.

Baseline SF LO Necrozma calc for reference
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Necrozma-Ultra Luster Purge vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus: 222-263 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Necrozma-Ultra Glaive Rush vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 214-253 (48.1 - 56.9%) -- 91% chance to 2HKO

Population Bomb

252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 250-300 (56.3 - 67.5%) -- approx. 2HKO


252 Atk Necrozma-Ultra Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 190-230 (42.7 - 51.8%) -- approx. 3.5% chance to 2HKO


252+ Atk Blaziken-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 200-240 (45 - 54%) -- approx. 28.5% chance to 2HKO


252 Atk Kyogre-Primal Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus: 170-210 (38.2 - 47.2%) -- approx. 3HKO

Just imagine this scenario. You Zap Cannon the Arceus on the switch. Arceus wants to Take Heart or Recover. You flinch them with Population Bomb. Now the Arceus is in range of another Population Bomb so they have to switch out. This is an extremely advantageous position for you. You can replace Arceus with any other wall in the example, though results may slightly vary depending on their items, the para + flinch combination is extremely lethal. Even if you're only doing like 25% with Population Bomb on a FC wall, you only need 2 stuns in a row to kill them with Zap Cannon or Magma Storm. Such is the power of these sets.

Finally, I'll talk a bit about Imposter proofing. The standard Improofs are Rocky Helmet and Cover Cloak walls that can wall the moves that their item cannot. For example, FC is pretty good since you can't get paralysed. is immune to Population Bomb and Dynamic Punch while resisting Magma Storm and Zap Cannon so you can wall with Take Heart or Jungle Healing.

Lopunny-Mega @ Wide Lens
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Population Bomb
- Secret Sword
- Kowtow Cleave / Knock Off / Stone Axe
- Behemoth Blade / Knock Off / Stone Axe

The next set is Sharpness Lopunny. If you don't know, Population Bomb is actually boosted by Sharpness which means you do a ton of damage even without a boosting item. There's not much to say except that this mon can 2hko even non-resists FCs with two Population Bomb and a bit of chip:

Sharpness Bunny Population Bomb

252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Arceus: 180-220 (40.5 - 49.5%) -- approx. 3HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Audino-Mega: 160-210 (39 - 51.2%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Zamazenta: 190-240 (49 - 62%) -- approx. 96.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Koraidon: 190-240 (47 - 59.4%) -- approx. 82.4% chance to 2HKO

The reason why I said FC non-resists is because FC Steels and Ghosts are kinda uncommon since don't wall popular physical mons like Blaziken, Greninja and Garchomp. I will admit that they do wall this set though. But if they are not FC then you can break through:

Coverage vs non-FCs

252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Arceus-Ghost: 200-236 (45 - 53.1%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 180-210 (45.2 - 52.7%) -- approx. 31.6% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Sharpness Lopunny-Mega Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Registeel: 248-294 (68.1 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Anyways damage-wise, this Lopunny will not dissapoint.

Flutter Mane @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Infernal Parade
- Moonblast
- Glare
- Pain Split

Giratina-Origin / Lunala / Necrozma-Dawn-Wings @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Glare
- Infernal Parade
- Strength Sap / Recover / Combat Torque / Psychic / Noxious Torque
- Combat Torque / Psychic / Noxious Torque

The next and final set is SF LO Glare Infernal Parade Ghosts. If you don't know, Sheer Force doesn't remove the 2x multiplier from Infernal Parade but it does remove the burn chance and provide a damage boost. These sets are not meant to be solo breakers since they don't carry much coverage so you can get walled. Instead, they are meant to support another breaker by paralysing walls and offensive mons. Flutter Mane doesn't need introductions, Infernal Parade + Moonblast is already perfect coverage and you can just glare + pain split through Scales mons.

The second set of mons are a lot more defensive compared to Flutter Mane. These mons are much more reliant on Glare to do stuff since they are so slow. However they can be used as soft checks to offensive mons since they are much bulkier, so it's a trade-off. The differences between these ghost types are quite small and it really depends on what your team needs typing-wise. I definitely recommend recovery though since you want these ones to stick around and Glare stuff. The 4th move also depends on what you need. Combat and Noxious Torque are very solid options to hit Steels and Audino respectively. You can run the other STAB (Order Up or Psychic) but I think it's worse than coverage since you want to click Infernal Parade and Glare most of the time.

The damage of SF LO boosted Infernal Parade is definitely no joke by the way.

Here is Specs Flutter for reference:
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Flutter Mane Astral Barrage vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 282-332 (63.5 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 238-281 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Bulkier Ghosts Infernal Parade

252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Necrozma-Dawn-Wings Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 292-344 (65.7 - 77.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lunala Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 265-312 (59.6 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Giratina-Origin Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 239-282 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Giratina Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Arceus-Fairy: 192-227 (43.2 - 51.1%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO

You can see even the weakest option, neutral Giratina with a measly 100 base Sp.Atk, is able to 2hko Arceus with a little bit of chip. NDW actually outdamages specs adapt Flutter Astral Barrage.

Here are some miscellaneous calcs vs other mons

Other Calcs

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Dialga-Origin: 144-172 (35.6 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Eternatus: 278-329 (57.4 - 67.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Giratina-Origin Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Dialga-Origin: 146-173 (36.1 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Giratina-Origin Combat Torque vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Dialga-Origin: 244-289 (60.3 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Giratina-Origin Noxious Torque vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Audino-Mega: 234-278 (57 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Flutter Mane Infernal Parade (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Kyogre-Primal: 118-140 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 6.4% chance to 3HKO

All you need to break through RegenVest and Scales mon is to get one or two Paralysis. The bulky ghosts are also able to tank one hit from an offensive mon and cripple them with Glare for the rest of the game.

tl;dr Paralysis and Flinch Hax is the final frontier of competitive Pokemon.

View attachment 681427

Covert Cloak.

 

[eto89]

Lopunny-Mega @ Wide Lens
Ability: Sharpness
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Population Bomb
- Secret Sword
- Kowtow Cleave / Knock Off / Stone Axe
- Behemoth Blade / Knock Off / Stone Axe

This set seems interesting, but why would a mixed attacker (a mostly physical one too) need secret sword over any special move that actually target the low spdef of some physical walls like mega steelix? Focus miss would be a better move to hit steels, or you could run tachion cutter but you probably need a good physical fighting stab anyway

Jokes apart the set seems really interesting but I assume you'd run sacred sword and not secret sword, even if the latter is affected by sharpness as well I don't think the damage is really there

 

[mayonnaise. mayo.]

hello gangys, time for

m a y o t e a m d u m p

The team I am dumping today is this silly sun team I made with cityscapes , who just so happened to be my teammate in HPL.
I made it because we all know how city gets with rain.

Starning off with the big boy. His purpose is to... be the sun. He sets sun and (most of the time) immediately clicks Parting Shot. Very simple.

A knife! My favorite! :D
Lilligant is now equipped with a lightsaber (Solar Blade) to murder that stupid fromg, and V-create murders every non-resist.

One of two MGLOs (other is Sceptile). Simple: beeg damage. Used to be Band, but city recommended LO.

Le fats of le team. This team is very frail (besides maybe Gira) without these two. Cosmoem used to be Prankster (city jumpscare), and city also recommended a Ghost resist (city jumpscare 2: electric boogaloo).

Sceptile with a sci-fi laser cannon. City added Blue Flare.

cityscapes If there is anything I forgot to credit you about, please say so.

Everyone not named Mayo: PLEASE MAKE THIS TEAM GOOD I AM ASS AT TEAMBUILDING RAHHHHHHH

 

[mayonnaise. mayo.]

hello gangys, time for

m a y o t e a m d u m p

The team I am dumping today is this silly sun team I made with cityscapes , who just so happened to be my teammate in HPL.
I made it because we all know how city gets with rain.

Starning off with the big boy. His purpose is to... be the sun. He sets sun and (most of the time) immediately clicks Parting Shot. Very simple.

A knife! My favorite! :D
Lilligant is now equipped with a lightsaber (Solar Blade) to murder that stupid fromg, and V-create murders every non-resist.

One of two MGLOs (other is Sceptile). Simple: beeg damage. Used to be Band, but city recommended LO.

Le fats of le team. This team is very frail (besides maybe Gira) without these two. Cosmoem used to be Prankster (city jumpscare), and city also recommended a Ghost resist (city jumpscare 2: electric boogaloo).

Sceptile with a sci-fi laser cannon. City added Blue Flare.

cityscapes If there is anything I forgot to credit you about, please say so.

Everyone not named Mayo: PLEASE MAKE THIS TEAM GOOD I AM ASS AT TEAMBUILDING RAHHHHHHH

mayo team dump update

So I changed the set of Gira a little. This is the new set:

the sun (Giratina) @ Heat Rock
Ability: Drought
Tera Type: Steel
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SpA / 0 Spe
- Recover
- Parting Shot
- Taunt
- Destiny Bond

The minimum Speed here is to guarantee that a slower weather setter doesn't set up said weather. Run this set over the old Gira set. Or don't, I don't care.

 

[TheZackman99]

Can we please look at bringing back liquid ooze? I feel like strength sap is overly centralizing for stall teams, requiring all balance teams to have a dedicated "sap blocker" (usually bliss or chan) to limit the amount of healing from sap. A single move forcing the meta to consider running a mon with next to no attack (which is difficult, as most mons have enough attack at -nature 0 ivs/evs to provide an adequate heal). This has been even more prevalent due to the normal healing moves (recover, shore up, etc) getting nerfed this gen to be 8 pp. Ooze provided a way to hard counter sap, and was banned because it was "uncompetitive". In my opinion, "uncompetitive" relies on the game rolling in your favor to suddenly outright win (see moody, dire claw, etc), or an overly centralized strategy with limited counterplay (poison heal, quiver dance, etc). Sap does not meet this definition of uncompetitive, because the player using sap has chosen to use the move. In the case that liquid ooze is legal, the player running sap would either have to size up their opposing team, and use critical thinking to determine if going for a sap would be a mistake, or make a decision at the time of teambuilding if strength sap is a risk worth taking (such as dealing with 90% accurate moves), or if a safer, more limited form of healing is better. The common complaint of liquid ooze is that it is "unsuspecting" or that it "feels bad to play against". Unorthodox teams are part of what makes hackmons so unique, due to the amount of creativity that the metagame affords. I think that liquid ooze is an ability that deserves a second look, as I don't think it deserves to be labeled as "uncompetitive".

 

[Tea Guzzler]

for clarity i voted dnb on ooze but these arguments don't really make a ton of sense:

I feel like strength sap is overly centralizing for stall teams, requiring all balance teams to have a dedicated "sap blocker" (usually bliss or chan) to limit the amount of healing from sap. A single move forcing the meta to consider running a mon with next to no attack (which is difficult, as most mons have enough attack at -nature 0 ivs/evs to provide an adequate heal).

this... seems unclear. by your wording i think you're saying that sap is centralizing when used by stall teams (due to mentioning balance using sapblockers immediately after), which is pretty much the exact opposite of what most stall teams opt for; the presence of sapblockers, even those with non-zero attack (eg. eternatus), will basically always cause a heal below 50%, in addition to having your probably-a-bit-passive defensive mons now fully losing to bounce and mg blissey. "being forced to fit a sapblocker" is also a bit of a null point when common defensive pieces have little attack; even if the heal amount isn't ideal, eg. with celesteela, you're still robbing all the opponent's momentum by forcing the opponent to create windows for their offensive mons but not do any offense.

In my opinion, "uncompetitive" relies on the game rolling in your favor to suddenly outright win (see moody, dire claw, etc), or an overly centralized strategy with limited counterplay (poison heal, quiver dance, etc). Sap does not meet this definition of uncompetitive, because the player using sap has chosen to use the move.

one of the main complaints with ooze when it was legal was that you could whack it on basically anything with moderately high attack and force 50/50s on whether to sap or not when the abilities haven't sufficiently been revealed. this isn't the game creating luck by itself, but it still fits the bill of uncompetitiveness in that it's basically a coinflip that you can't even be sure you're participating in. gen 9's circumstances also mean that using sap on offensive mons is kind of forced due to the very real risk of simply running out of recovers; passive damage is everywhere, a substantial amount of offensive mg users need the higher instant healing to aid dragon energy, and imposter + power-crept phys attackers mean arceus formes except ghost basically always need it.

In the case that liquid ooze is legal, the player running sap would either have to size up their opposing team, and use critical thinking to determine if going for a sap would be a mistake, or make a decision at the time of teambuilding if strength sap is a risk worth taking (such as dealing with 90% accurate moves), or if a safer, more limited form of healing is better.

see the above but the choice is basically always strength sap. even if you were to correctly guess that the yveltal on the other side was sap, that doesn't change the fact that every time you want to heal the mon that either takes stray hits (setup like arc-ghost) or needs top HP (energy users like etern), you play a 50/50 where you probably lose the game on the spot should you guess wrong and have varying outcomes (from "do absolutely nothing useful", like sap arc-ghost vs ooze yveltal, to "they got the 50/50 wrong, i can heal mostly free now", like sap torch etern vs ooze solg) should you guess right, which just simply isn't healthy. having sapblockers is still constraining your slot (pokemon rather than ability) but lets the sapblocker still play the game should they guess wrong.

The common complaint of liquid ooze is that it is "unsuspecting" or that it "feels bad to play against". Unorthodox teams are part of what makes hackmons so unique, due to the amount of creativity that the metagame affords.

"the teams are unorthodox" shouldn't be used as an excuse to introduce unwanted variance just for the sake of having more stuff.

 

[cityscapes]

Can we please look at bringing back liquid ooze? I feel like strength sap is overly centralizing for stall teams, requiring all balance teams to have a dedicated "sap blocker" (usually bliss or chan) to limit the amount of healing from sap. A single move forcing the meta to consider running a mon with next to no attack (which is difficult, as most mons have enough attack at -nature 0 ivs/evs to provide an adequate heal). This has been even more prevalent due to the normal healing moves (recover, shore up, etc) getting nerfed this gen to be 8 pp. Ooze provided a way to hard counter sap, and was banned because it was "uncompetitive". In my opinion, "uncompetitive" relies on the game rolling in your favor to suddenly outright win (see moody, dire claw, etc), or an overly centralized strategy with limited counterplay (poison heal, quiver dance, etc). Sap does not meet this definition of uncompetitive, because the player using sap has chosen to use the move. In the case that liquid ooze is legal, the player running sap would either have to size up their opposing team, and use critical thinking to determine if going for a sap would be a mistake, or make a decision at the time of teambuilding if strength sap is a risk worth taking (such as dealing with 90% accurate moves), or if a safer, more limited form of healing is better. The common complaint of liquid ooze is that it is "unsuspecting" or that it "feels bad to play against". Unorthodox teams are part of what makes hackmons so unique, due to the amount of creativity that the metagame affords. I think that liquid ooze is an ability that deserves a second look, as I don't think it deserves to be labeled as "uncompetitive".

dedicating an entire ability slot for ooze also counts as "requiring a sapblocker" and leaves you with a mon that's objectively worse than a low attack guy in most cases (especially if we're including stuff like mega aud, zam, ghold, flutter under low attack guys) unless you have a structure specifically designed to get away with it

also you dont need a sapblocker if you have other shit going on like hazard stacking or if your breaking complex is primarily special rather than physical

also also you can just run magic bounce which allows for guys with good attack to block sap and additionally beat spikes, which is a much more consistent way to beat sap than liquid ooze even if we freed that

the only thing ooze rly does is cause people to autolose in some cases whenever they run sap on literally anything, ooze was never the most efficient way to build a team esp when the meta was prepped for it, but sap being so wildly inconsistent generally sucks when imposter and physical attackers are so strong. in the end there were less viable structures when ooze was a thing.

 

[HunterNeverHere9]

Can we please look at bringing back liquid ooze? I feel like strength sap is overly centralizing for stall teams, requiring all balance teams to have a dedicated "sap blocker" (usually bliss or chan) to limit the amount of healing from sap. A single move forcing the meta to consider running a mon with next to no attack (which is difficult, as most mons have enough attack at -nature 0 ivs/evs to provide an adequate heal). This has been even more prevalent due to the normal healing moves (recover, shore up, etc) getting nerfed this gen to be 8 pp. Ooze provided a way to hard counter sap, and was banned because it was "uncompetitive". In my opinion, "uncompetitive" relies on the game rolling in your favor to suddenly outright win (see moody, dire claw, etc), or an overly centralized strategy with limited counterplay (poison heal, quiver dance, etc). Sap does not meet this definition of uncompetitive, because the player using sap has chosen to use the move. In the case that liquid ooze is legal, the player running sap would either have to size up their opposing team, and use critical thinking to determine if going for a sap would be a mistake, or make a decision at the time of teambuilding if strength sap is a risk worth taking (such as dealing with 90% accurate moves), or if a safer, more limited form of healing is better. The common complaint of liquid ooze is that it is "unsuspecting" or that it "feels bad to play against". Unorthodox teams are part of what makes hackmons so unique, due to the amount of creativity that the metagame affords. I think that liquid ooze is an ability that deserves a second look, as I don't think it deserves to be labeled as "uncompetitive".

aint bringing a mon with ooze still a sapblocker?(or did i misunderstand). also magic bounce exists anyways which is arguably better than ooze by being more splashable and can bounce back spikes. also mons with ehh attack stats would cause sap to heal under 50%, making it worse than regular healing, no?

 

[Fish Gaming]

aint bringing a mon with ooze still a sapblocker?(or did i misunderstand). also magic bounce exists anyways which is arguably better than ooze by being more splashable and can bounce back spikes. also mons with ehh attack stats would cause sap to heal under 50%, making it worse than regular healing, no?

ooze is problematic as mentioned earlier because you cant really tell which mon has liquid ooze on it, but you can lightly predict other roles based off of team structure. like most of the time, an arceus is going to be furscales. this also leads to strength sap being riskier to click, which means that physical attackers will dominate the meta

 

[TheZackman99]

for clarity i voted dnb on ooze but these arguments don't really make a ton of sense:

this... seems unclear. by your wording i think you're saying that sap is centralizing when used by stall teams (due to mentioning balance using sapblockers immediately after), which is pretty much the exact opposite of what most stall teams opt for; the presence of sapblockers, even those with non-zero attack (eg. eternatus), will basically always cause a heal below 50%, in addition to having your probably-a-bit-passive defensive mons now fully losing to bounce and mg blissey. "being forced to fit a sapblocker" is also a bit of a null point when common defensive pieces have little attack; even if the heal amount isn't ideal, eg. with celesteela, you're still robbing all the opponent's momentum by forcing the opponent to create windows for their offensive mons but not do any offense.

one of the main complaints with ooze when it was legal was that you could whack it on basically anything with moderately high attack and force 50/50s on whether to sap or not when the abilities haven't sufficiently been revealed. this isn't the game creating luck by itself, but it still fits the bill of uncompetitiveness in that it's basically a coinflip that you can't even be sure you're participating in. gen 9's circumstances also mean that using sap on offensive mons is kind of forced due to the very real risk of simply running out of recovers; passive damage is everywhere, a substantial amount of offensive mg users need the higher instant healing to aid dragon energy, and imposter + power-crept phys attackers mean arceus formes except ghost basically always need it.

see the above but the choice is basically always strength sap. even if you were to correctly guess that the yveltal on the other side was sap, that doesn't change the fact that every time you want to heal the mon that either takes stray hits (setup like arc-ghost) or needs top HP (energy users like etern), you play a 50/50 where you probably lose the game on the spot should you guess wrong and have varying outcomes (from "do absolutely nothing useful", like sap arc-ghost vs ooze yveltal, to "they got the 50/50 wrong, i can heal mostly free now", like sap torch etern vs ooze solg) should you guess right, which just simply isn't healthy. having sapblockers is still constraining your slot (pokemon rather than ability) but lets the sapblocker still play the game should they guess wrong.

"the teams are unorthodox" shouldn't be used as an excuse to introduce unwanted variance just for the sake of having more stuff.

Quick question on the 50/50s, isnt light ball imposter pika also a 50/50 auto win (in some cases)? I used to run a lot of light ball imp and it felt like that a lot of the time. I'm not claiming that imposter is a problem, but i don't see the rational of ooze being a "bad 50/50" I also think it's relevant to ask the question of how a mon gets below 50% in the first place, as viewing that situation in isolation ignores a lot of context about matchups. if your team is not set up to survive in a meta where ooze is legal, and requires you to click sap without a risk of backfiring, i question the teambuilding.

Also, to your point of common defensive pieces having little attack, celesteela (base 101) has a minimum attack stat of 207, which is often a better heal than recover on anything with base ~80 hp (and still healing ~40% for bulkier mons). granted, that is a one-time heal, and you are correct that switching in celesteela has halted the momentum of your offensive threat, but you've already healed your mon. celesteela can't offensively threaten anything, so you switch to the mon that you have to check or counter celes. Even though your opponent switched in their defensive counter, you still have accomplished your goal of healing. this makes one of the only viable counters to that strategy hazard stacking (which you mentioned, as hazard damage is everywhere). My main point is that, in removing ooze, we are letting sap be the primary healing option, and because even "low" attack mons still have high-ish minimum attacks, running "sapblockers" streamlines what you can switch into heals as well as offensive moves. very few special attacking offensive mons have substantially low attack stats (with the exception of flutter, but that still has a minimum attack value of 115, which is nothing to sneeze at).

In my opinion, restricting what pokemon are viable, as opposed to taking an ability slot is much more restrictive. Think of what mons can effectively run magic guard (dialga, mega scept, ho oh come to mind), but guard can be run on anything, and can be used for different reasons (avoiding chip, avoiding recoil, etc). Ooze works similarly, in that you can apply it to any physically minded attacking mon, with a lot of room for flexibility. Sapblocking requires you to either run a magic bounce mon, or restrict a handful of mons to have an attack of less than, lets say, base 60. Finding a mon with that constraint, as well as the right stats to do whatever else you need it to do, leaves, like 4-7 viable options. This is just my opinion, but I don't think that allows for enough flexibility in team building.

There's also been comments that "sap helps check physical threats" this is true, but it just makes specially bulky mons (regenvest, scales) even more frustrating, as it is difficult to have a physical wallbreaker strong enough to ohko, or set up (which has a host of counters).

Also, in fairness, the main reason I felt motivated to start this conversation was because I feel like all of the high elo teams are ALL stall, with a heavy reliance on hazards and flowcharting around offensive threats. While it's true (and very healthy for the meta) that there isn't a do-everything offensive mon (we banned mega mewtwo for a reason), I feel like defense has become too stifling for anything but chip damage to win high level games, and because chip damage can be partially countered by items, you see a TON of knock off on any successful team. I just don't think running zacian/ceus with KO, sap, spikes, pivot move X3 mons, with 2 regen mons and an imposter is fun to play as or against. I might be barking up the wrong tree here, but I feel like get to 1500+ rating and then face the same kind of team over and over again.

All of this to say, I've been playing hackmons for, like 8 years at this point, and I think that this gen is a fairly good time. I just think that the ooze ban was a bit... unjustified given the world we live in now. Feel free to disagree, frankly im surprised my question started the discussion that it did lol. Have a nice day everyone.

 

[ANinjaDude]

Light Ball Imposter is not a 50/50 to win lmao.

 

[Tea Guzzler]

Quick question on the 50/50s, isnt light ball imposter pika also a 50/50 auto win (in some cases)? I used to run a lot of light ball imp and it felt like that a lot of the time. I'm not claiming that imposter is a problem, but i don't see the rational of ooze being a "bad 50/50" I also think it's relevant to ask the question of how a mon gets below 50% in the first place, as viewing that situation in isolation ignores a lot of context about matchups. if your team is not set up to survive in a meta where ooze is legal, and requires you to click sap without a risk of backfiring, i question the teambuilding.

imposter pika only presents an auto-win scenario if both teams opt into taking the tie, which they should never do unless the game demands so (ie. basically at the end, speedtie to win). this isn't really a comparable 50/50 because both sides know nearly exactly what's going to happen over the game; the pika side will attempt to avoid the 50/50 by trying to paralyze the opposing offensive mon so pika can safely steal it, positioning mons with para moves that the offensive mon on the other side can't OHKO to stall for time; a late-game 50/50 is usually due to the pika side not getting this para + non-pika side either throwing away or not having light ball-sufficient improofs. with ooze, the 50/50 is more lopsided and isn't really telegraphed.

(also a mon doesn't need to be below 50 just to sap; defensive mons commonly want to heal at about 65 and offensive energy users largely stop doing much around that threshold. the main diff with something like blissey is that, even if you sap, you lose momentum but still get another go + sapblockers via attack tend to be easier to tech on coverage for. trading hits is also a thing you probably want to consider for damage so you don't get scared of hits like regenvest u-turn).

Also, to your point of common defensive pieces having little attack, celesteela (base 101) has a minimum attack stat of 207, which is often a better heal than recover on anything with base ~80 hp (and still healing ~40% for bulkier mons). granted, that is a one-time heal, and you are correct that switching in celesteela has halted the momentum of your offensive threat, but you've already healed your mon. celesteela can't offensively threaten anything, so you switch to the mon that you have to check or counter celes. Even though your opponent switched in their defensive counter, you still have accomplished your goal of healing. this makes one of the only viable counters to that strategy hazard stacking (which you mentioned, as hazard damage is everywhere). My main point is that, in removing ooze, we are letting sap be the primary healing option, and because even "low" attack mons still have high-ish minimum attacks, running "sapblockers" streamlines what you can switch into heals as well as offensive moves. very few special attacking offensive mons have substantially low attack stats (with the exception of flutter, but that still has a minimum attack value of 115, which is nothing to sneeze at).

sure, you get to heal your eg. sceptile (let's pretend for a minute this is mg sceptile vs well-baked steela). then you're forced to switch out into something that reliably limits whatever moves steela has; no defensive mon is really firing off big hits, so whatever you go to is needing to eat some combination of axe / mortal / salt / ruination / pivot moves which not much at all can really respond to, allowing both sides to grab something from the interaction as well (not counting possibility of double switches). having sap be the main healing forces you to compress low attack and defensive switch-in into one slot, sure, but this is in my eyes fundementally better than a coinflip to kill something; ooze existing doesn't improve recover as a move (which is arguably the whole issue here), it just makes sap less attractive relative to it.

i'm also not entirely seeing your point on spatk mons having reasonable attack stats; i assume you're replying to the bit of city's post about special progress makers, but sap on spdef mons is pretty much restricted to arceus formes, and that is entirely due to imposter. sap against special attackers will only heal more against "mixed" attackers like sceptile or shell side arm etern.

In my opinion, restricting what pokemon are viable, as opposed to taking an ability slot is much more restrictive. Think of what mons can effectively run magic guard (dialga, mega scept, ho oh come to mind), but guard can be run on anything, and can be used for different reasons (avoiding chip, avoiding recoil, etc). Ooze works similarly, in that you can apply it to any physically minded attacking mon, with a lot of room for flexibility. Sapblocking requires you to either run a magic bounce mon, or restrict a handful of mons to have an attack of less than, lets say, base 60. Finding a mon with that constraint, as well as the right stats to do whatever else you need it to do, leaves, like 4-7 viable options. This is just my opinion, but I don't think that allows for enough flexibility in team building.

i'm personally the opposite. you can take any mon whose typing or stats do a specific thing and probably make it useful (see people finding uses for stuff like nihilego and meloetta), but if you're sacking the ability slot, even on something "meta" like primal kyogre, then the mon just becomes a utility robot that can't run regen or something to actually wall stuff. this is the problem with ooze: you're just creating a knock off + spikes machine that you can throw into a coinflip and maybe get a KO from, whereas with attack-based sapblocking it's more consistent value that's easier to fit. base 60 is kind of arbitrary and only really serves to limit what can be used; "enough" is really to where you can't just give the opposing etern full heal, which sort of depends on the team (on some structures you could honestly get away with just min attack arceus; being slower and a setup threat means you can stick around and bludgeon etern after it heals).

Also, in fairness, the main reason I felt motivated to start this conversation was because I feel like all of the high elo teams are ALL stall, with a heavy reliance on hazards and flowcharting around offensive threats. While it's true (and very healthy for the meta) that there isn't a do-everything offensive mon (we banned mega mewtwo for a reason), I feel like defense has become too stifling for anything but chip damage to win high level games, and because chip damage can be partially countered by items, you see a TON of knock off on any successful team. I just don't think running zacian/ceus with KO, sap, spikes, pivot move X3 mons, with 2 regen mons and an imposter is fun to play as or against. I might be barking up the wrong tree here, but I feel like get to 1500+ rating and then face the same kind of team over and over again.

see my first post but i don't really get how ooze being freed would help this. stall teams already aren't too keen on using sap due to having integral defensive components simply being unable to heal; if you think that's a big issue right now then magic bounce and good as gold still do that job just fine, and since it's stall you wouldn't exactly be lamenting not getting an instant KO.

 

[TheZackman99]

imposter pika only presents an auto-win scenario if both teams opt into taking the tie, which they should never do unless the game demands so (ie. basically at the end, speedtie to win). this isn't really a comparable 50/50 because both sides know nearly exactly what's going to happen over the game; the pika side will attempt to avoid the 50/50 by trying to paralyze the opposing offensive mon so pika can safely steal it, positioning mons with para moves that the offensive mon on the other side can't OHKO to stall for time; a late-game 50/50 is usually due to the pika side not getting this para + non-pika side either throwing away or not having light ball-sufficient improofs. with ooze, the 50/50 is more lopsided and isn't really telegraphed.

(also a mon doesn't need to be below 50 just to sap; defensive mons commonly want to heal at about 65 and offensive energy users largely stop doing much around that threshold. the main diff with something like blissey is that, even if you sap, you lose momentum but still get another go + sapblockers via attack tend to be easier to tech on coverage for. trading hits is also a thing you probably want to consider for damage so you don't get scared of hits like regenvest u-turn).


sure, you get to heal your eg. sceptile (let's pretend for a minute this is mg sceptile vs well-baked steela). then you're forced to switch out into something that reliably limits whatever moves steela has; no defensive mon is really firing off big hits, so whatever you go to is needing to eat some combination of axe / mortal / salt / ruination / pivot moves which not much at all can really respond to, allowing both sides to grab something from the interaction as well (not counting possibility of double switches). having sap be the main healing forces you to compress low attack and defensive switch-in into one slot, sure, but this is in my eyes fundementally better than a coinflip to kill something; ooze existing doesn't improve recover as a move (which is arguably the whole issue here), it just makes sap less attractive relative to it.

i'm also not entirely seeing your point on spatk mons having reasonable attack stats; i assume you're replying to the bit of city's post about special progress makers, but sap on spdef mons is pretty much restricted to arceus formes, and that is entirely due to imposter. sap against special attackers will only heal more against "mixed" attackers like sceptile or shell side arm etern.


i'm personally the opposite. you can take any mon whose typing or stats do a specific thing and probably make it useful (see people finding uses for stuff like nihilego and meloetta), but if you're sacking the ability slot, even on something "meta" like primal kyogre, then the mon just becomes a utility robot that can't run regen or something to actually wall stuff. this is the problem with ooze: you're just creating a knock off + spikes machine that you can throw into a coinflip and maybe get a KO from, whereas with attack-based sapblocking it's more consistent value that's easier to fit. base 60 is kind of arbitrary and only really serves to limit what can be used; "enough" is really to where you can't just give the opposing etern full heal, which sort of depends on the team (on some structures you could honestly get away with just min attack arceus; being slower and a setup threat means you can stick around and bludgeon etern after it heals).


see my first post but i don't really get how ooze being freed would help this. stall teams already aren't too keen on using sap due to having integral defensive components simply being unable to heal; if you think that's a big issue right now then magic bounce and good as gold still do that job just fine, and since it's stall you wouldn't exactly be lamenting not getting an instant KO.

These are all really good points, thanks for your thorough reply. I guess I will always miss ooze, as it had been a staple of all of my teams since around the end of gen 7 BH (it was really good at countering magic bounce).

 

[Akira 153]

I think the main point that has been noted whenever people bring up Ooze is that while common sense from outside of BH would say "you can just run recover instead". Choosing to run recover leads to a ton of mons becoming absolute fodder for Imposter, in a way that they wouldn't in previous generations because of various differences (notably the loss of good trapping moves). Even something like Eternatus becomes unable to reliably take out Imposter with Dragon Energy if it lacks any damage boosts.
252 SpA Eternatus Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252 SpD Eternatus: 290-344 (41.1 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Unless you want to start arguing that Imposter needs to go, which, while everyone will admit that Imposter is harder to deal with than in prior generations, simply isn't feasible and would make the tier worse, Strength sap is going to remain the most common form of healing to allow Imp's recovery to be controlled.
8PP recover as the only form of recovery would also break nearly every fast physical attacker and cause physical setup to be extremely frustrating to deal with (see: Quiver Dance being banned but not physical equivalents) but that's a separate issue.
So if Strength Sap is virtually mandatory on any competitive balance team, then the question is how to make the meta as healthy as possible within that constraint. And in that case, It's clear that Ooze causes games to be unfairly lost on one bad play and forces everyone to constantly be on edge lest their physical wall instantly die.

Take 2 cases, in both cases player A has a Fur Coat Arceus-Fairy that is the only check to their opponent's physical attackers (fitting multiple fur coats is unrealistic on most balance teams). If player B has a magic bounce pokémon, then if Fairyceus saps, the bouncer gets healed and fairyceus gets nothing (it might still be getting lefties FWIW), but if the bouncer is something frail or that has a bad type matchup, such as Yveltal, Zoroark-H or Garchomp-Mega (taken as examples since I have either used or played against all 3 with ooze), then Arceus can play the mindgame repeatedly of trying to sap again or killing the bouncer with Judgment.
To bounce effectively, you need to be able to take the sapper's hits, which means offensive pokémon have an advantage in sapping and passive ones struggle, this actually makes Sap a lot harder to fit on passive stall pokémon.
Meanwhile with Ooze, even on something like Zoroark-Hisui which will never ever beat an Arceus 1v1, if you bring it in on a predicted sap then you instantly get the KO. Doesn't matter if you hit an Arceus or a Mega Audino, they die regardless.

On using Ooze Sap in oldgens, yeah it was pretty funny to own a bouncer but the strategy was pretty inconsistent because if the opponent switched to Imp you have to cope and seethe as one wrong click lost you your mon.

Anyway I wrote this before you responded, glad to see Tea's arguments changed your mind.

 

[Chessking345]

Hi just a small announcement that we are looking to update our sample teams so (even though sample subs are always open) you should submit if you haven't already! Side announcement in case anyone is interested but unaware is that BH full analyses have been open.

Dropping these two teams I used in WC, I don't think they are amazing but its been a while since I actually built stuff that not trying to MU fish.

Semi Sun, though you can argue its leaning towards full sun. This was partly inspired by Hallward bringing up how you don't need to commit that much to support breakers with tools like weather similar to how people support with stuff like Doom Desire. Sun is significantly easier than Rain to not full commit, with Blaziken being an extremely natural fit that is quite self sufficient. Sun's unique defensive profile is also better than Rain. Team is mostly ok, running into Fire-immune is obviously very bad but is not entirely unplayable, and Knockless can be annoying at times but can be fitted over Nuzzle on Flutter if needed.

More in-depth

Mage is sun setter because of its defensive potential with it to check gren and spinblock Kyogre and also can be easily KOed by Blaze, and providing Doom support on top. Flutter is hard improof, allows EDrift on Blaze to catch Fire Immune Steela, and provides general utility. Groundceus is strong under Sun removing its Water-weakness, and boosted Magma Storm makes it a pretty proficient spinner heavily threatening Steela. Zama because needed some speed, a check to stuff like Chomp, and more removal as team is quite weak to hazards. V-create is probably not optimal but its has synergies and smashes some switch-ins. MG Chansey to sapblock, check Take Heart, and pivot.

PixiFlutter Stack. First attempt at using utility Flutter, ended up with Pixi for some extra power, and then teambuilding directions led to a superman structure. Team doesn't have the strongest pressure and is kind of reliant on getting up hazards and connecting Knocks, but overall is quite solid.

More in-depth

Flutter is quite proficient at making progress for itself with Spikes and Knock, and Boomburst damage even without item is not to be ignored. Steelceus is like the hardest improof, Take Heart set opted here to be basic. FC Mirai natural partner for LeviSteel, with the tech of Encore being very useful overall despite the valuable slot, particularly in conjunction with Cage. Yveltal was to mainly deal with a surge with Ghostceus usage, though the set is rather dubious due to the roles it needs to fulfill; Jolly is interesting though getting an edge on a bunch of neutral natured stuff around there. MG Chansey again for the SpD, with Boots Imposter to round everything off.

Also going to drop some metagame thoughts
Think meta is a very solid place right now unless someone finds some breaking innovations (that are not just like minor uncompetitive cheese). All playstyles balance each other and with the exception of Stall basically every playstyle is quite accessible and viable (Stall is probably viable too but its less accessible).


Very cool Pokemon currently, though it is prone to getting hard prepped for potentially. With only two truly required moveslots (Fairy STAB and Pain Split, + usually Spikes) it has a lot of flexibility in what it can do utility wise whether its defensive or offensive, along with relative item freedom and near infinite options ability-wise its surprisingly easy to fit onto teams and patch up weaknesses. Its main weakness is that despite Pain Split being completely broken the physical bulk is definitely quite weak and vulnerable.


After many years Zama finally has established itself but it might be too established as one of the most popular FCs currently. This leads to some vulnerabilities to getting countered by niche offensive mons that have super effective coverage (e.g. Aero) or just brute forced by mons previously in slight decline like Chomp, as teams typically don't run second FC along Zama.


Quite a nice Arc forme currently, fast Steel without Solgs weakness can be quite useful and special Steel is actually pretty good. I ran Iron Plate but other Plates are also definitely useable too with alternate selfproof ideas.


Its no secret that I like this mon a lot, having used it quite a bit back in ompl. Its a very satisfying and fun mon to use by just clicking one button. I rate it well because I think it fits very well in a minor structure where you run solo progress with a bunch of utility stuff since Garde is very self sufficient as a progress maker, and this kind of structure allows you to run some more goofy stuff with a more spread out defensive core. PixiSpeed is also broken so you get some decent anti-offense with it unlike Blaze.


Great pokemon, you dont take any damage from weaker physical coverage like Shell Side Arm and you don't really need the lefties recovery anyways and you get a slower pivot. I will continue to preach that eviolite Imp is not that good and slapping random items on Imp is best. Lefties for example is excellent if you're weak to Take Heart Arc as that just farms. Cloak always situationally good and boots remains consistent. I wouldn't use plate in current environment though.

can you update this tea

My name is not Tea but maybe

 

[Fish Gaming]

Hi just a small announcement that we are looking to update our sample teams so (even though sample subs are always open) you should submit if you haven't already! Side announcement in case anyone is interested but unaware is that BH full analyses have been open.

Dropping these two teams I used in WC, I don't think they are amazing but its been a while since I actually built stuff that not trying to MU fish.

Semi Sun, though you can argue its leaning towards full sun. This was partly inspired by Hallward bringing up how you don't need to commit that much to support breakers with tools like weather similar to how people support with stuff like Doom Desire. Sun is significantly easier than Rain to not full commit, with Blaziken being an extremely natural fit that is quite self sufficient. Sun's unique defensive profile is also better than Rain. Team is mostly ok, running into Fire-immune is obviously very bad but is not entirely unplayable, and Knockless can be annoying at times but can be fitted over Nuzzle on Flutter if needed.

More in-depth

Mage is sun setter because of its defensive potential with it to check gren and spinblock Kyogre and also can be easily KOed by Blaze, and providing Doom support on top. Flutter is hard improof, allows EDrift on Blaze to catch Fire Immune Steela, and provides general utility. Groundceus is strong under Sun removing its Water-weakness, and boosted Magma Storm makes it a pretty proficient spinner heavily threatening Steela. Zama because needed some speed, a check to stuff like Chomp, and more removal as team is quite weak to hazards. V-create is probably not optimal but its has synergies and smashes some switch-ins. MG Chansey to sapblock, check Take Heart, and pivot.

PixiFlutter Stack. First attempt at using utility Flutter, ended up with Pixi for some extra power, and then teambuilding directions led to a superman structure. Team doesn't have the strongest pressure and is kind of reliant on getting up hazards and connecting Knocks, but overall is quite solid.

More in-depth

Flutter is quite proficient at making progress for itself with Spikes and Knock, and Boomburst damage even without item is not to be ignored. Steelceus is like the hardest improof, Take Heart set opted here to be basic. FC Mirai natural partner for LeviSteel, with the tech of Encore being very useful overall despite the valuable slot, particularly in conjunction with Cage. Yveltal was to mainly deal with a surge with Ghostceus usage, though the set is rather dubious due to the roles it needs to fulfill; Jolly is interesting though getting an edge on a bunch of neutral natured stuff around there. MG Chansey again for the SpD, with Boots Imposter to round everything off.

Also going to drop some metagame thoughts
Think meta is a very solid place right now unless someone finds some breaking innovations (that are not just like minor uncompetitive cheese). All playstyles balance each other and with the exception of Stall basically every playstyle is quite accessible and viable (Stall is probably viable too but its less accessible).


Very cool Pokemon currently, though it is prone to getting hard prepped for potentially. With only two truly required moveslots (Fairy STAB and Pain Split, + usually Spikes) it has a lot of flexibility in what it can do utility wise whether its defensive or offensive, along with relative item freedom and near infinite options ability-wise its surprisingly easy to fit onto teams and patch up weaknesses. Its main weakness is that despite Pain Split being completely broken the physical bulk is definitely quite weak and vulnerable.


After many years Zama finally has established itself but it might be too established as one of the most popular FCs currently. This leads to some vulnerabilities to getting countered by niche offensive mons that have super effective coverage (e.g. Aero) or just brute forced by mons previously in slight decline like Chomp, as teams typically don't run second FC along Zama.


Quite a nice Arc forme currently, fast Steel without Solgs weakness can be quite useful and special Steel is actually pretty good. I ran Iron Plate but other Plates are also definitely useable too with alternate selfproof ideas.


Its no secret that I like this mon a lot, having used it quite a bit back in ompl. Its a very satisfying and fun mon to use by just clicking one button. I rate it well because I think it fits very well in a minor structure where you run solo progress with a bunch of utility stuff since Garde is very self sufficient as a progress maker, and this kind of structure allows you to run some more goofy stuff with a more spread out defensive core. PixiSpeed is also broken so you get some decent anti-offense with it unlike Blaze.


Great pokemon, you dont take any damage from weaker physical coverage like Shell Side Arm and you don't really need the lefties recovery anyways and you get a slower pivot. I will continue to preach that eviolite Imp is not that good and slapping random items on Imp is best. Lefties for example is excellent if you're weak to Take Heart Arc as that just farms. Cloak always situationally good and boots remains consistent. I wouldn't use plate in current environment though.


My name is not Tea but maybe

https://pokepast.es/681c8bb6309026d2 proposing this
i dont have an explanation yet, but its good

 

[Onyx Onix 7]

While I don’t usually do teamdumps since the majority of my teams are hot garbage that isn’t really worth using for most players, I decided to do one for hackpl so everyone can have the satisfaction of ignoring and throwing tomatoes at awful teambuilding. So without further ado here are the teams that I built for hackpl. (I’m only including builds I made exclusively by me as this post would be too long and be even lower quality than it already is).

Generation 9:

https://pokepast.es/1143e96c49b35d6b

This is a stall team I had lying around in my builder prior to the tour built around sevag-regen Mega Steelix. Sevag Regen I found tends to work really well on stall because it fills the void of Imposter resistant status sponge that is really difficult to take advantage of with choiced wallbreakers opened by the Poison Heal Ban. The team suffers a lot vs Magic Guard as it has to rely on pp-stall to win, but if it loads into a Non-magic Guard team it pretty much instantly wins as Steelix and hazards make quick work of regen-vests and recovery pp.

https://pokepast.es/03f72d36fe925649 :

The team above is a team based around spreading Paralysis to make it easier to break through team’s with Pikachu and Mega- Lucario. I gave this team to fish to fight Yolk with since Yolk likes using Shackle set-up and Pikachu and paralysis make that playstyle really difficult. Unfortunately, I am braindead so I didn't consider the Flutter Mane match-up and Fish lost to Flutter Mane.

https://pokepast.es/9ab646b6bac36aa2 :

This team is an offensive Volt-Turn team I gave to fish to fight ROFNA with. The build was deliberately outfitted with fast breakers like Mega-Alakazam and Koriadon as well as extreme-speed Iron Valiant to make it difficult for ROFNA to get his rain team off the ground if he chose to bring it. Prankster Ho-Oh was also used so it would be difficult for ROFNA to cheese anything. Unlike with Yolk this actually matched up fairly well and only lost because of a couple of endgame blunders made by fish gaming.

https://pokepast.es/4a7760514b5b612c / https://pokepast.es/f899bcff294ec0f3 :

I decided to reveal the Roar of time team that I peaked ladder with and instantly regretted it as Teamo really wanted to bring it in spite of my warnings that Night’s Edge had already been tricked on ladder by this exact team. Since I couldn’t convince Teamo to build anything else I simply slightly modified the team to make the trap slightly less obvious to Night’s Edge and prayed that he would have the memory of a goldfish. As expected, that didn’t go well.


https://pokepast.es/e447a879d11a2c31 :

I constructed this improved version of Akira’s Magic Guard Stall team as a candidate to fight QT, though fish wasn’t having it with playing full stall so I just ended up modding one of his teams to be just barely playable into QT. As I anticipated, the other team didn’t quite cut it.

https://pokepast.es/d333561e3bfaa857 :

This team I made for Big Tony to match-up fish since if you don’t have Prankster vs the team more often than not you’ll instantly lose. While the version I gave him lacked a bit a polish, and had a notable error not having a minus defense Nature on Lunala, it still only lost to an unlucky missed Focus Blast and an Unlucky role on Imposter (Even without - defense the Power Trip had a 50 OHKO chance on Eviolite Imposter). Fish would bring the more polished version and shred Pannu with the Clangorous Soul HO.


Generation 8:

https://pokepast.es/4fca7aa66d79becc:

Tea Guzzler presented an idea around Nasty Plot Xerneas that I found intriguing, but his version of the team was absolutely abhorrent as it had no pivoting to bring stuff in and instantly lost to Specterier so I scrapped his version and built a new version from the ground-up. Unfortunately the wallnut I have for a brain screwed up my mental calcs and failed to realize the Zygarde needed to + Special Nature to answer Specterier so Tea ended up losing to Specterier anyway.

Generation 7:

https://pokepast.es/61746189d62d3045:

I absolutely could’ve curbstomped Jasprose with the Hyper Offense or Stall team I had created in advance for the tournament if I needed to. However, since my team had already won the week it was far more valuable to drop a red herring for anaconja than to win the week so I loaded an old balance I made with Sodass back when I was even more awful at the game. As expected it lost, but it the team did its job of misleading anaconja into overprepparing for fat and Fur Coat Chansey and under preparing for hyper offense so I was fine with said loss.

https://pokepast.es/b2c883df3d662cd8:

The expectation I created for the type of team I would bring payed off here as anaconja went into the game thinking they would be fighting a fat balance or Stall and instead was meet with Hyper Offense. The game went fairly smoothly as anaconja was Ill prepared for the onslaught of Tail Glow and Belly Drum.


https://pokepast.es/4474630b7e7d0774:

I finally decided to break out the stall team I had built in week one of the tour. Though the game ended up not mattering for the outcome of the tour, this would probably be the best time to use it given that my next opponents would be hyper prepared to deal with stall.


https://pokepast.es/a779b0a686666c44

I anticipated E4 Flint would bring counter-teams to the HO and stall team’s I had brough previously in the tour, so I was expecting a lot of Unaware, Taunt and Mold Breaker Hazards. I also knew that Flash Fire was unlikely as I rarely bring Fire Coverage so I built a Sun team featuring Tinted Lense Blaziken for power and Chlorophyll Necrozma for speed and mixed wallbreaking. As predicted the team successfully countered the most likely countermeasures to my playstyle perfectly.

https://pokepast.es/3af19f8afad548b4:

Vs City I had not idea what to bring so I settled on Pressure Stall because City doesn’t use Spectral Thief very frequently and her teams tend to be quite slow. Unfortunately, I loaded into Baton Pass and after a 400 turn game managed to somehow get every predict wrong due to my inability to play out of a paper bag and ended up handing the game over to City.

https://pokepast.es/d974f0558a3d32a3:

Since I hadn’t used Shedinja the entire tour and Sevag had been very reliant on Jobocca to deal with Shedinja I figured Sevag would be Ill prepared to deal with a Shedinja team. And so I constructed a semi-stall centered around tough claws Diancie since I was expecting Primordial Sea to deal with weather this time around. As I predicted Sevag brought a team that struggled into Diancie, Lucky Punch Imposter, and Shedinja, but as per usual I managed to find a way to throw the game and instead of utilizing Encore on Aegislash as I should’ve to stop Stealth Rocks I instead make the brilliant play of letting Rocks go up so Sevag freely get past my Gengar check and sacking my only out on an obvious Judgment.

And that concludes another scuffed season of braindead teambuilding. My apologies for wasting your time with more hot air if you were expecting actually competent or remotely intelligent teambuilding.

Forgot to add this team to the teamdump:

https://pokepast.es/66b9c97991cc33b3

We didn't end up bringing this to the team tour but this team was strongly considered against quite a a few players. The team linked is a Sun Team built around exploiting the ludicrious power of Hustle Mega Blaziken and Tinted Arceus Lense Arceus Fire under Sun to shatter most conventional teams. Now before you question the inclusion of Hustle I'd like to present few calcs to you:

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Blaziken-Mega V-create vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Fur Coat Arceus-Fairy in Sun: 442-522 (99.5 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Blaziken-Mega Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 399-469 (100.2 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Hustle Blaziken-Mega Glacial Lance vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 478-564 (94.8 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

The reasoning for the inclusion of Hustle becomes a trivial matter once you understand the math. The last note is Gouging Fire is the Improof for the team while also being a terriffying self Imposter-Proofed late game wincon once Blaziken has lured in and OHKOed the opponent's physical wall.

 

[Onyx Onix 7]

Great pokemon, you dont take any damage from weaker physical coverage like Shell Side Arm and you don't really need the lefties recovery anyways and you get a slower pivot. I will continue to preach that eviolite Imp is not that good and slapping random items on Imp is best. Lefties for example is excellent if you're weak to Take Heart Arc as that just farms. Cloak always situationally good and boots remains consistent. I wouldn't use plate in current environment though.

I agree with this. The Imposter Item VR should've been reworked ages ago to be: (Plate, Scarf, Boots, Shell /Cloak , Eviolite, Leftovers).

Explanation:

1. Plate is really good as it gives you so much more freedom with building your defensive core as you can simply ignore a lot of Arceus Ghost sets as a factor. The extra bulk from Eviolite matters little in a meta where basically every viable offensive threat is Take Heart Arceus and attackers that hit their Imposters for super effective damage, so there's really not much of an opportunity cost.

2. Scarf is really powerful in a Meta where basically all viable offensive threats hit themselves super effectively. Scarf Imposter lowers the threshold for checking so many threats like Eternatus or Sceptile from having a hard Ice Scales counter to simply having a pivot that can switch in take a hit and escape into Imposter with U-Turn. With dealing with defensive threats there isn't much a a disadvantage as the only defensive pokemon you are taking advantage of are Knock-Off spamming regen-vests.

3. Heavy Duty Boots are very solid in a meta dominated by Spikes and Rocks stack, because it removes hazard pressure on Imposter entirely.

4. A lot of Shackle Set up has been on the rise so a safety net against being caught off guard by it is always helpful.

5. While the bulk from Eviolite is good it just doesn't have as much to offer as the items above.

6. Leftovers helps vs Take Heart but is generally outclassed as Topsy is a more reliable countermeasure anyway.

 

[rightclicker]

sample submissions



Team name: PUSH UR T3MPRR - Triple Magic Guard superman stall
Synopsis: Use the power of MG + knockspam and extreme hazard stacking to win games.
More details in RMT here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...iple-magic-guard-stall-peaked-1-1726.3754998/
Weaknesses: Ultra Necrozma with coverage for Mega Audino, V-Create Mega Garchomp, strong Sapblocking + physical breakers.
Effectiveness: Peaked #1 on ladder with the only losses being straight up counter teams that are just bad otherwise (quadruple mortal spin regenvests), and even then I only suffered like 3-4 losses while running this team. Also has very similar positive matchups with the other superman sample while teching for opposing superman MUs, so would probably do well in serious games.



Team name: the rosemary island - Sticky Webs balance
Synopsis: Kyurem-W and Mega Blaziken are extremely powerful attackers capable of dismantling fat by force but struggles into fast revenge killers. This is when Webs come in as an anti offense option. Set it up ASAP, block removal attempts with spinblockers and win through sheer power and inability to get revenge killed.
Weaknesses: Psystrike Mega Gardevoir, Mega Garchomp, Magic Bouncers that checks Mega Blaziken.
Effectiveness: Auto wins versus most superman squads lacking Chansey if you play well. Also has never lost a single game on ladder around 1500s but thats less relevant.
Other options: Any other special based fat breakers (Mega Gardevoir, Rocky Payload Rockceus, Rayquaza, etc) are all decent options over Kyurem-W.



Team name: THE FORBIDDEN LIZARD
Synopsis: THE FORBIDDEN LIZARD does FORBIDDEN things such as hard improofing glare + saltcure + ghost coverage while having FORBIDDEN coverage such as stab boomburst and luring in imposter and knocking it to ease setup ho-oh.
Weaknesses: uhh like everything
Effectiveness: yea

 

[cityscapes]

Quick question on the 50/50s, isnt light ball imposter pika also a 50/50 auto win (in some cases)? I used to run a lot of light ball imp and it felt like that a lot of the time.

the funny thing about pika is that i've always had the unpopular opinion of wanting it gone. simply put, in the majority of matchups (i.e. no plate breakers like rockceus, no extreme stall, no sash improof ho), a decently well-built pika team has a much easier time forcing the game to be a speed tie than a different sort of team would winning, so if youre ever paired vs a super hyped up player in tour and you can make something fundamentally okay with pika, i think that's your best shot at a win. unfortunately i was the super hyped up player in question so i never got to use this.

the orthodox pika structure is paraspam which don't get me wrong is strong on its own, but i don't think it's actually that synergistic with pika. no good player with a balance team will let their offensive mons take para (and if they do they lose for other reasons), you kind of just lock in and go for the speed tie. main thing para helps with is being more consistent vs ladder playstyles like mono sweeper, but i hardly think that para is the only way to make pika teams decent vs ladder (or strong in general), it will obviously never be that consistent due to the whole speed tie thing though.

 

[The Guy Who Has Many Alts]

Team Name: The Golden Wind Experience
Team Paste: https://pokepast.es/ae29139cf48de059
Team Paste: https://pokepast.es/83f92b193d712b16 (NEW AND IMPROVED with BIG )


Synopsis: the creator of Big Stall has returned to present a revolutionary way of playing Stall: the bizarre yet terrifying Hyper Stall archetype. This team is running some certified REAL offensive mons like RegenVest , RegenVest and RegenVest . Improofed by the deadly WANDERING SPIRIT . Behold as your opponent become overwhelmed by your relentless attacks between these unkillable behemoths. sets up the sandstorm to bolster your RegenVest's spdef ad well as withering away opposing walls. Doom Desire and Future Sight combined with triple phazing moves will sow FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) throughout the match, mentally wearing them down. Induce madness as your opponent make meaningless progress thanks to Regenerator. Revel in their sorrow as an endless flow of calamity, attacks and sand wither your opponent's resolve. This... is The Golden Wind Experience. The final frontier of Hyper Stall.

Effectiveness: 1-0 in OMWC, insane mu fish vs people that run a bunch of special attackers if you wanna bring to tourney. WANDERING SPIRIT is more addictive than Genshin Impact so be sure to consult a psychologist if you're experiencing withdrawal symptoms.

Strength: with the power of semi-quadruple Regen, you'll barely have to click a recovery move. Beginner-friendly DOUBLE SPIN REGENVEST guarantees you can clear hazards easily unless opponent has an or , in which case you predict and U-turn to bring in your massive threat .

Weakness: offensive mons with Desolate Land/Primordial Sea, offensive mons with fighting moves like Secret Sword, HJK and Close Combat with the right coverage/stab.

Other Options: You can swap for :Propopass: or the with 170 attack visible attack (max IV 96 attack EVs) is so U-turn into Sludge Bomb kill neutral bulk :Mega Sceptile: but can be changed to min attack to better sap block if you want. has Speed investment to be faster than 0 speed . I recommend not changing this but technically you can go min speed if you want.