BH Balanced Hackmons

the funny thing about pika is that i've always had the unpopular opinion of wanting it gone. simply put, in the majority of matchups (i.e. no plate breakers like rockceus, no extreme stall, no sash improof ho), a decently well-built pika team has a much easier time forcing the game to be a speed tie than a different sort of team would winning, so if youre ever paired vs a super hyped up player in tour and you can make something fundamentally okay with pika, i think that's your best shot at a win. unfortunately i was the super hyped up player in question so i never got to use this.

the orthodox pika structure is paraspam which don't get me wrong is strong on its own, but i don't think it's actually that synergistic with pika. no good player with a balance team will let their offensive mons take para (and if they do they lose for other reasons), you kind of just lock in and go for the speed tie. main thing para helps with is being more consistent vs ladder playstyles like mono sweeper, but i hardly think that para is the only way to make pika teams decent vs ladder (or strong in general), it will obviously never be that consistent due to the whole speed tie thing though.

Agreed that I don't think any capable player would let their whole team get para'd for Pikachu to sweep, but at the same time, I wonder if Tailwind could potentially be a viable strategy to support Pika. I know Ransei has been tinkering with Tailwind support in Gen 7 PH with pretty successful results on ladder; I'm curious if a similar strategy would be at all viable here or if it would be too niche.
 
Agreed that I don't think any capable player would let their whole team get para'd for Pikachu to sweep, but at the same time, I wonder if Tailwind could potentially be a viable strategy to support Pika. I know Ransei has been tinkering with Tailwind support in Gen 7 PH with pretty successful results on ladder; I'm curious if a similar strategy would be at all viable here or if it would be too niche.
Generally Tailwind's duration is just too low, and when you see a Pikachu on preview then Tailwind goes up, you are unlikely to be bringing in your setup sweepers. It isnt unreasonable for the opponent to just play passive and time a slow pivot to bring their breakers in on the turn tailwind ends, for example. It's very similar to future sight / doom desire in the sense that you are essentially telling your opponent exactly what you intend on doing in the next turns.
if I click doom desire, my opponent knows for sure that unless I'm doing something rare like dd plot, I'm going to try to slowpivot or make a risky hard switch on the next turn to bring my breaker in, so unless the core has a strong enough matchup that renders the opponent is unable to stop that chain of events, they can easily counteract it.
Tailwind is very similar, where if the opponent sees it go up, and they see both a Pikachu and a slow breaker like Blaziken, Garchomp or Hoopa-U, they know that you are going to try to bring one of those in on the following turn, and since Pikachu is far more dangerous, they will likely switch to a defensive mon where Imp Pika won't be useful at all. So the most value you'll get out of tailwind is likely to enable your own breakers (which works but can be done easier with webs or paralysis support) and have Pikachu only existing as a deterrent that prevents the opponent from bringing out their breakers while tailwind is up.
If you want a temporary field effect that serves as a deterrent to opposing breakers, you could just use Screens.

FWIW tailwind in general might still have a niche with Wind Rider, and in that case bringing Pika along isnt an awful plan. I know Hallward has experimented with Wind Rider Garchomp before and the set seems fundamentally sound, although not as versatile as other Chomp sets. Wind Rider also allows for fun Improofing schemes. A core like this seems at least conceptually sound, although it's likely going to require a weird and rigid support structure because both mons have limited defensive value and aren't instantly threatening, so I don't think it would be great outside of matchup fishing.
 
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Generally Tailwind's duration is just too low, and when you see a Pikachu on preview then Tailwind goes up, you are unlikely to be bringing in your setup sweepers. It isnt unreasonable for the opponent to just play passive and time a slow pivot to bring their breakers in on the turn tailwind ends, for example. It's very similar to future sight / doom desire in the sense that you are essentially telling your opponent exactly what you intend on doing in the next turns.

The point of Tailwind support is to only reveal the Tailwind after the opponent starts threatening your team with their breaker - in an ideal situation, the Tailwinder would be able to get off Tailwind (likely with Prankster) before dying to a threatening breaker, giving you a free switch into Pikachu to reverse sweep. I don't think that it's unfeasible for that scenario to occur in actual matches, especially when using a Pokemon like Prankster Blissey, to allow Pikachu a clean switch. Granted the odds of this happening become lower if there's a mispredict/imposter reveals that you're running Tailwind, but I think it's reasonable to assume that most players would not expect a last turn Tailwind and allowing Pikachu to come in.
 
Here just a team dump from OMFL to World Cup

https://pokepast.es/c2d1658abe77f089

I also want to submit one of my team as a sample

Team name : Band Korai + Etern
Synopsis : Band Korai + Etern Balance ig ?
Pokepaste : https://pokepast.es/8e052c6cdd98a465
Weaknesses : This team doesn't have that much weakness, it can beat pretty anything, the team have a lot of tools to play around in almost any match up
Effectiveness : Really good all around team with win in WCup and SSNL

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9balancedhackmons-802741
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen9balancedhackmons-788063
 
lethal_injection_2.gif


:flutter mane::audino-mega::clodsire::arceus-flying::dialga-origin::chansey:

Team Name: The Syringe
Synopsis: Red Card Toxic Debris + Special Stack Balance
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/9e93c2be3f8d7a28
Weaknesses: Poison-types, spike stack that gets through Clodsire, Imposter, lots of Knock Off users: none of these pose a threat on their own, but if the opponent has several at once it can be overwhelming. You never lose to offense if you know how to play around the standard mons. (Should be noted that Red Card + Toxic Debris can still poison random opponents even if a Poison-type is present. Just don't get knocked and you're chilling.)
Effectiveness:
1732766530019.png


example replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2251817028 - tspikes exert massive pressure, we win pert early, and i win by correctly reading the steela as mortal and setting up a bind with dialga + imposter
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2252545131 - vs stall, we poison imposter immediately, and from that point the game is mostly about removing the boots on court change aud which ends up happening before too long. pay attention to the interactions turn 18-22 leading up to the bait-and-switch on turn 23.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2251729203 - vs ladder offense. av flutter here is fast, offensively threatening (esp. with tspikes), and extremely durable. the only thing really standing in its way is scales aggron, so i focus on pressuring that first and the rest of the team just folds after that
 
Why doesn't Galvanize change Un-Plated Judgement to Electric type? On the Bulbapedia page for Galvanize, Judgement and Multi-Attack are specifically called out as moves that are affected by Galvanize. Additionally, on the page for Judgement, Galvanize is the only type-changing ability that isn't specified as not affecting Judgement: "Judgment is unaffected by Normalize, Pixilate, Refrigerate, and Aerilate. However, it is affected by Ion Deluge (if the move would be Normal-type) and Electrify."

So I suppose my question is, who is incorrect? Is Bulbapedia wrong, or at least, lacking information? Or does Showdown have the interaction programmed incorrectly?
 
Why doesn't Galvanize change Un-Plated Judgement to Electric type? On the Bulbapedia page for Galvanize, Judgement and Multi-Attack are specifically called out as moves that are affected by Galvanize. Additionally, on the page for Judgement, Galvanize is the only type-changing ability that isn't specified as not affecting Judgement: "Judgment is unaffected by Normalize, Pixilate, Refrigerate, and Aerilate. However, it is affected by Ion Deluge (if the move would be Normal-type) and Electrify."

So I suppose my question is, who is incorrect? Is Bulbapedia wrong, or at least, lacking information? Or does Showdown have the interaction programmed incorrectly?
Bulbapedia is wrong; it also incorrectly states Judgment and Multi as affected by Pixilate, Refrigerate, and Aerilate on their pages.
 
Bulbapedia is wrong, and shouldn’t be relied upon for info on niche mechanical interactions like this in general as it is quite unreliable on such topics. The list of moves affected by Galvanise on the Bulbapedia page is just a list of every Normal type move.

The way it works is that abilities change types before moves do, so Galvanise does actually change Judgment to Electric type before Judgment sets it’s own type back to Normal. This interaction is why moves like Revelation Dance retain their usual typing when the Pokemon has Normalise, for instance. I think this may have worked differently in Gen 6, which might be why Bulbapedia is wrong here.
 
I want to make a sample team submission even though I know they were just updated, as I feel this team should be considered more than it was:
THE BOMB SQUAD
https://pokepast.es/abd482e8aac6ba17
I am not going to do any crazy explanation for the team as I want to put out an RMT for it eventually, but I'm going to attach a screenshot of a ladder placement I had with it, followed by some replays.
1733423929655.jpeg

1733423952273.jpeg

(the only losses were due to my unis shit ass wifi btw I was gunna win rightclicker trust)

Replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2256787638 vs cirno HO piloted by Akira 153
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2250805242-ejdd4exw0egdmn9rwlzgce2vk67z5yppw against st*rm ea*le
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2242546143-pq7ddw8udogofg54rmd1ffy6sbkw2x5pw also st*rm ea*le
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2242444851-wj4egzxqbt6bj9k4ff57e2c17cvhrfdpw st*rm ea*le again
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...41414237-d7j7mwkr5utti8a3kqk64opjgrgxzq1pw?p2 not st*rm ea*le (forgot who this was so if you see this lmk and ill credit you)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2239466674 Game 1 against GhastlyPixie
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2239476941 Game 2 against GhastlyPixie
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-2238765672 against cityscapes


with this said, I and many others think the council should at least reconsider it.
 
serious meta post

i think we should take action on the move burning bulwark

ok actually but for real i think bulwark is stupid, uncompetitive, and unfun to play around, especially (mostly actually) on blissey/chansey and i think it should go
now before you laugh at me and throw pebbles and do whatever people do when they disapprove of someone's opinion, hear me out with these arguments

1. what does bulwark do in the meta?
burning bulwark is a king's shield clone that instead of lowering atk burns the attacker instead.
bulwark is mostly used for scouting ahead moves, wasting pp and punishing physical breakers.

2. why is bulwark uncompetitive?
based on the points above about what bulwark does, you'd probably think "bulwark is so tame lol this guys an idiot". which, to be fair, i would also laugh at my own arguments if bulwark just scouted moves and wasted pp. but, that third part is the main reason why i am advocating for action on bulwark.

a. bulwark punishes good positioning
lets say you have a fc celesteela on the field, and your opponent just clicked u-turn on their mega lucario to bring in a relatively low hp miraidon. now, you have two options in the back: regenvest ting-lu or blissey. regenvest ting-lu would deny miraidon's volt switch and gets free turns to do whatever it wants, but would allow it to sap back to full if it clicks that on the switch. blissey would sapblock miraidon, but if it clicks volt switch back into mega lucario, you'd be presented with another very dangerous mindgame of mega lucario clicking bolt strike or close combat (or if the celesteela is sufficiently chipped, you will need to sac a mon outright). your opponent positioned themselves well and should be rewarded for doing so with a chance to break down your team heavily.
but lets say, your blissey is actually just bulwark. now, don't even think against miraidon, just go blissey. they volt switch into mega lucario? oops the mega lucario now does no damage thanks to being burnt ggez. they obviously also can't sap because it heals nothing into blissey. so, in the end, your opponent is getting actively punished for managing to position themselves well. all of this... but what is your blissey giving up?? ruination to punish solely special sap guys (who are kind of mid either way tbh). thats it.

b. same argument as liquid ooze, just a bit tamer
now, you might be throwing the obvious argument at me: "just scout the bulwark??? or use tech for them like jungle healing and/or setup on the bulwark turn, or other stuff". both are fair points, so lets take a look at them.

scouting the bulwark would help in not having your cb breaker not immediately die... but the problem is that it now has less entry points (thanks to the likely easy entry point being bulwark), forcing you to play very proactively with double switches or run excessive amounts of slow pivoting. the fact that purely special walls like blissey/chansey not being able to be punished with most choice band users is genuinely fucking deranged. now if you've noticed this sounds a bit similar to an already banned element - liquid ooze being banned because it forces 50/50s even after being scouted, but in this case instead of forcing 50/50s, it completely disables a major counterplay method of certain mons (in this case, blobs not giving a shit about cb users) and even in certain cases like the one i demonstrated above, forcing opponents into a 50/50 anyways (miraidon clicking sap into blissey would be extremely detrimental because blissey then gets a free slow pivot or healing instead of having to click bulwark)

teching for bulwark to punish it is fair, but there are not a lot of physical guys that can tech for it - physical setup doesn't get much use outside of mega garchomp or random sd guys who have their own problems, jungle healing is terrible, users of moves that break protect are extremely discernible from preview (hoopa-u, mega aerodactyl) and are exploitable in different aspects, etc. also, in some cases, it's STILL a 50/50 whether they click bulwark or just go to their check (very similar to the kind of 50/50s liquid ooze forced, just tamer)

3. ok... but why bulwark? why not other protect moves?
well, simply, they don't completely disable a mon from functioning if they play into it. baneful bunker's poisons are still crippling don't get me wrong, but they just aren't completely game ending as getting your cb progress maker burned. obviously other protect moves are just ass since the effects arent even permanent. the other effects of protect moves, namely scouting and pp stalling, are relatively healthy.

tl;dr: bulwark punishes good play, has narrow counterplay itself and makes certain counterplay coinflips. it also provides no competitive benefit thanks to its healthy aspect being achieved by similar moves

now, does this mean you should push for action on bulwark? not necessarily. feel free to voice your personal opinions on the matter of whether bulwark is uncompetitive (or not).
 
hi so short announcement but i'm stepping down as tier leader. i've been meaning to do for a while (due to a declining lack of interest) but have mostly just been putting it off because of irl commitments, but i have nothing on atm so don't really have any excuse. i'll probably stick around doing the resources a bit longer and will be about on discord / c&c but don't expect much of me in this thread.

happy to say that Chessking345 will be the new TL; doesn't need much explanation, but he's also carrying basically everything else on the back end, so him as TL is a no-brainer. full faith that the tier will do well and imp will remain legal with him in charge.

yeah that's all i can really think of saying lol, got nothing else
 
Hey all, the meta seems to be in a pretty good spot atm, but whenever I ask people about what could be done to improve it, the answers are very varied but most people seem to have at least something they find oppressive. As such, I've created a survey that includes just about every grievance I've heard from good players in order to gauge which ones have popular support and which ones are just a loud minority.

Please fill out the survey here!

The survey will be up for a while, if you have strong opinions about any of the elements on here, please post your arguments in the thread! If you don't have strong opinions on some of these, consider waiting a while to fill out the survey so that other people can post.

To be clear, this is a non-binding opinion survey, not anything that will force action. The council will discuss anything that has a strong result, but tiering action will still be based on our judgment and follow Smogon and OM tiering policy. Again, please post in the thread if you have new arguments to present. This survey is to bring attention to problematic elements, not to make decisions.
 
Hey all, the meta seems to be in a pretty good spot atm, but whenever I ask people about what could be done to improve it, the answers are very varied but most people seem to have at least something they find oppressive. As such, I've created a survey that includes just about every grievance I've heard from good players in order to gauge which ones have popular support and which ones are just a loud minority.

Please fill out the survey here!

The survey will be up for a while, if you have strong opinions about any of the elements on here, please post your arguments in the thread! If you don't have strong opinions on some of these, consider waiting a while to fill out the survey so that other people can post.

To be clear, this is a non-binding opinion survey, not anything that will force action. The council will discuss anything that has a strong result, but tiering action will still be based on our judgment and follow Smogon and OM tiering policy. Again, please post in the thread if you have new arguments to present. This survey is to bring attention to problematic elements, not to make decisions.
I think bulwark is indeed very opressive in a teambuilding perspective and lets players get away with bad positioning due to how strong a cheap read with it is in the long run. My thoughts have been explained by mr rightclicker in his post 3 posts above and I think it says everything that should be said.
I know it doesnt look as opressive in a first glance but still feels when playing. Definetly worth a look and maybe a suspect.

Hijacking my own post to also post Damflame's opinion since he isnt gonna psot in thread (and gave me permision)
1734028975344.png
 
General thoughts:

I think most of the complaints expressed about SV BH (relatively uninteractive gameplay, smaller selection of counterplay to setup threats, this is just my impression less freedom in the builder compared to old BH gens?) are just a result of Gen 9 sucking and an overall worse balance between elements that would increase skill expression in-game if they weren't banworthy (mainly Poison Heal) and metagame health. Generally higher-BP moves than in previous gens also means high BST offensive mons are more easily broken, making the mon-to-mon interactions that make Hackmons surprisingly balanced (think the Mewtwos' mid typings, Gengar/Diancie's substantially better typings in exchange for worse stat spreads, Fur(Scales)' potency hampered by the prevalence of moldy moves, which some BST blobs get STAB on, an insanely fat mon in Zygarde-C, weak coverage options that allow top walls to stay relatively consistent while allowing for a wide range of niche options through sufficient centralization, etc.) progressively harder to justify keeping as each top offensive mon individually becomes more and more straining in the builder. Additionally, Zygarde-C/Xerneas basically don't exist while Arceus formes (which are 1. extremely varied and 2. limited to one per team) do, which exacerbates the bind SV BH is put in imo. So I think the majority of negative sentiment expressed towards BH tiering/the council is misguided.

However, I personally think there are a few tiering actions that'd work towards alleviating the situation Gen 9 forced Hackmons into. I'll approach them with an emphasis on the maximization of in-game skill expression.


Burning Bulwark:

I pretty much fully agree with rightclicker's post, but it's a little long so to clarify:
  • Bulwark effectively forces 50-50s between a contact breaker and whatever Bulwark user's on the field, and said 50-50s can't be played around without being forced to bring in said breaker against a different (non-Bulwark) threat. This ends up severely limiting contact breakers' entry points. And while the breaker-vs-Bulwark interaction isn't a balanced 50-50 (either your breaker gets burnt, your breaker KOes their Bulwark user, they hard switch, or they gain momentum using a pivoting move on your switch), since the outcomes of this interaction are consequential while both players are essentially guessing what the other will do, Bulwark used in this way generally decreases skill expression.
  • Bulwark's different from Bunker because a burn is so much worse – even taking 12% per turn, you can accomplish a lot while your breaker is still active, while with a burn at best you gain momentum by forcing out mons you threaten anyway, and at worst you do nothing.
  • I don't think the centralization argument is that compelling but you can argue since Bulwark is so much of an impediment to breakers that it helps to decrease (non-Blaziken) contact move breakers' usage, restricting building. On the flipside it encourages Guts/Blaziken usage though so it goes both ways.

Victory Dance:

I think I'm in the minority when I believe Victory Dance is banworthy, so I'll explain my thought process. I'll be focusing on Amulet Shackle/VD/Sap/X sets since those are clearly the most problematic.
  • Victory Dance users can unreasonably limit in-game decisions since they're generally a more black-and-white deal than conventional setup sweepers/breakers to take care of. Because VD users can eat physical hits, deal with Imposter (Shackle) more effectively than Take Heart guys, and physical mons just generally have a better pool of attacks to choose from, the game revolves around whether or not you have or can preserve the appropriate to counteract their VD user.
  • There is way too much diversity among VD users for there to be a wide range of failsafes that work against the rest of the meta. Unaware users are relatively safe from what I've seen but you can build to counteract them with teammates and even they are restricted because Power Trip/Sunsteel stuff can just break through. Outside of Unaware, you can take your chances with Topsy (GaG/Bounce), Clear Smog (Steels), Knock + Sap preferably on the same mon (clearly not an impotent combination through it's still a restriction in the builder), Haze (garbage especially when you have to conserve recovery PP), or out-offensing with a TH or reasonably strong support mon (only works if you have positive matchup to begin with). What happens is that one player has a huge advantage that's decided in the builder, limiting skill expression in-game. TBF said TH mons grant you a pretty good chance but regardless I don't believe VD to be a good influence in the builder.
  • Not a very strong argument because this isn't specific to VD abusers but VD mons play linearly once the user finds an opportunity for them to get going – they essentially just aim to set up + sweep without providing much support aside from that role.
In conclusion I think Victory Dance is an overall negative influence on the tier.


Stone Axe:

Dunno if anyone still thinks this is banworthy but banning it would probably be a net positive:
  • Forcing hazard setting into Stealth Rock would disincentivize "lazy building" by decreasing RegenVest's potency and the occurrence of linear gameplay (Knock --> Stone Axe --> U-turn --> opponent threatens to remove --> switch back in --> Stone Axe --> spread status, etc.), as well as increasing Magic Bounce usage (decreasing the effectiveness of Normalize/Strength Sap).
  • Mold Breaker hazards would probably also see use, and as they're harder to position with instead of mashing Stone Axe with your RegenVest this would correspond to both greater builder freedom and increased skill expression.

Other stuff:
  • Not sure if there's enough justification for banning it but Good as Gold is basically Magic Bounce but more unhealthy in every way (can't force out setup stuff with Parting Shot, doesn't discourage passive hazard setters, blocks Defog if you're feeling adventurous).
  • I used to think Take Heart's banworthy but TH meta is probably preferable to without since status sponges are already strapped as is.
  • Leaning no ban but I can understand support for a Salt Cure ban, on one hand the meta's adjusted nicely to it + other residual damage and it helps against TH stuff but it still promotes super passive walls + probably decreases overall building variety in the meta
  • I think multiple Arceus isn't as insane a suggestion as most people seem to think. When I used to build frequently I felt I had to expend more resources in the builder to deal with Arceus formes than I'd have to for other walls (since they're so much better), and freeceus would help with that. On the other hand, there would obviously be increased centralization (as well as speedties) and offense would be forced into running mostly/only >120 Speed breakers. Leaning DNI but it's a conversation worth having
  • Shedinja unban would be funny af but probably not
  • Other unbans listed on the survey are either insane or idk enough on to comment
 
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Ban strength sap and imposter

My personal thoughts on the meta (if anyone cares to listen) or at least on the survey is uhhhhhh…I forget what was on it one sec…oh uhhhhh so first off about the mon bans (chomp gren blaz are the ones imma talk about forget if there were others) first greninja…

THE FROGE:
So in my opinion while Mr. Froge man is strong idt he’s banworthy is because most teams will have ways you can outplay even if the sflo dude has the right coverage for your team there will probably be smth that doesn’t die immediately (eg fc arc neutral to stabs and phys coverage) and can hit it hard cuz the lil man has no meat on his bones, poor guy looks like me when I ran track in high school. Set hazard(s) and outplay is really the best way to stop sflo gren as they can slot some weird coverage sometimes depending on team however typically it’s bolt steam fiery + 1 (axe kick I’ve seen quite a bit but also random moonblasts and noxious torques) so knowing that you can play accordingly and pivot to scout or wtv first. Secondly with regards to the sniper or tough claws or wtv phys set you wanna talk about these sets while they have crazy calcs don’t have the calcs to be seen as overtly broken, speed stat paired with these calcs says otherwise but really what ends up happening is the guy fails to take a kill and dies or gets bulwarked (ill get to this thing later) or beak burnt or rocky helmet slaughtered or smth happens and mf goes bye bye so while yes it has some crazy calcs in play it doesn’t feel terribly overbearing at least not in my experience in tours and on ladder (ladder is useless ik but still) so I don’t see a need for ban. I do think fully special sets are underexplored tho but that’s for another day. Oh and as a nail in the coffin it’s weak to pixi speed womp womp womp.

K FLACKO CHICKEN (aka KFC):
don’t ban him pretty please with a cherry on top . Nah but in all seriousness idt mchicken needs to be banned persay, I think he is def a strong lil guy but idt banworthy. Shift gear sets are fucking demonic tho I will admit that omg they’re so funny everything just dies. But the thing with chicken is he’s a slow lil man, he got them long legs but can’t even use em properly, poor guy is handicapped. Every fc arc outpaces and saps, every special attacker (gardevoir is fake) outpaces and murders the dude, dragons are everywhere, random psea and wbb stuff exists, and kfc is releasing a new meal deal soon so lil buddy is fried. I will say however I personally disregarding all bias do think that nothing else in the meta punishes the typical slow special checks such as scales maud mg chansey mg/regen blissey and AV regen mons like mega chicken does whether banded or shift gear this thing HURTS, it even chunks imposter! But overall I don’t think chicken needs a ban and I can say that with 100% no bias at all yup totally mhmmmmmm.

JEFF THE LAND SHARK:
Now this mf, is a monster, but idt it needs to be banned . Chomp is weird cuz it doesn’t actually have any real checks tbch due to the absolute monster that having ground stab is right now cuz wtf is a grass/bug/flying type not named celesteela, ygod sucks aside from the occasional mg on swooperman structures, and ho-oh is bad. Headlong/pblades + vc + bolt is perfect coverage rn (even though bolt isn’t actually needed or used) for what chomp needs and then you can just slap on Glaive for fun when you run into a no fairy type team as those happen sometimes every now and then. But that’s ofc the banded sets which personally I think banded chomp is the best chomp and have always thought shift gear was lack luster on a mon where perfect coverage is so easy to fit on a banded set you can even forgo one of vc/bolt (typically bolt) and slap on sunsteel to REALLY annoy fc guys especially fairy arc which go bye bye now. Downside tho is he is once again slower than my grandma after getting her knees knocked inwards by her extreme arthritis. It’s also threatened by nearly every mon faster than it such as arc fairy arc ghost (knock off) flutter zam etern mirai arc elec arc ground (they run ice beam sometimes) blaz gard scep gren necro val (oh forgot to mention it’s also weak to pixi and refridge espeed which isn’t huge but sucks) the list goes on. It is also kinda bulwark (evil move) and beak food (less evil, I like this move) unless it’s jungle or pblades which means it’s either shift gear (me no like) or inaccurate stab which pblades is still very good but obv has the downside of missing.

BURNING BLUKWARK AM I RIGHT?:
I think this move is “fine” in the sense that it is on the surface okay cuz all of 2 maybe 3 maybe 4 maybe like 7 different mons on any given day use it out of the 20 mons you will say on said given day which is under 50% and therefore doesn’t have the majority! Nah but I think bulwark is a cheap move that rewards bad play by giving a very easy out. That said I also love abusing it on mg chansey so I shall shutup about it now. Nah I’m joking, I do think the meta would benefit as a whole by forcing baneful cart rip down peoples throats again and not bulwark cuz it doesn’t dehabilitate mons nearly as well as bulwark does as a burn can put a phys mon out of commission for an entire game whereas a poison is simply annoying.

VICTORY BOOGY:
When I signed the form or wtv I forgot about shackle sets and was like “why tf is this on here” but I now remember why that was on there. I think vd shackle is bs cheese that is hilarious to watch people lose to but so sad to lose to because we all know TTTech is the only mf who uses that shit nowadays and losing to tech is unacceptable around here. Nah but I do think the whole “you do this I win now haha loser” aspect is very annoying especially seeing how easy it is to pull off and how hard it can be sometimes to distinguish random shackle vd mons from regular mons. So idk if I agree with it being banned but I do think a suspect could be neat idk tho.

STONE AXE:
It’s too late in the morning for this shit. Auto rocks = unhealthy. Pls go back to making people click stealth rocks I beg of you idk who at gamefreak thought letting people click an attack and set hazards was a good idea but it wasn’t and they need to be fired. This move isn’t broken in a “holy shit ban now” way it’s just annoying in the sense that it’s unpreventable rocks that is so easily slotted on mons with such absurd longevity (AV regen) so it seems impossible to ever actually keep them off.

MAGIC BOUNCE/GAG:
Magic bounce idt deserves a ban even though I put it on the survey it was a misinput it was an misinput you need to calm tf down! Gag however I feel is just magic bounces unhealthy older brother who is very rude and mean and dislikes people being happy or smth like that. Not being able to be parting shot fazed is extremely rude and I’d like it very much if it would stop doing that as it makes setup guys with it essentially impossible to stop if the right set. Me personally want ban pls.

I’ll finish the rest when I wake up in like 2 hours for work if I have time/energy gn yall
 
I really think Salt Cure is problematic in the meta as defensive mons can just chip you for 1/8 of your health each turn or 1/4 if you're Water/Steel. The only ways to stop it is spamming RegenVest, or Magic Guard and Covert Cloak. If you run Cloak, nine out of ten times, the mon clicking Salt Cure has Knock Off. Really, your only counterplay is Magic Guard.
 
I really think Salt Cure is problematic in the meta as defensive mons can just chip you for 1/8 of your health each turn or 1/4 if you're Water/Steel. The only ways to stop it is spamming RegenVest, or Magic Guard and Covert Cloak. If you run Cloak, nine out of ten times, the mon clicking Salt Cure has Knock Off. Really, your only counterplay is Magic Guard.
personally i think salt cure is fine because:

1. the best users are regenvests which are exploitable through encore, spikestack, imposter, etc
2. magic guard is really really good
3. that chip is annoying but realistically it's not that different from getting poisoned from mortal spin with regular mons, except it works on steels and poisons as well. yeah you do more to steels and waters but comparatively the best mortal users are typically mons that can pressure steels/poisons hard either way (ho-oh, pogre, zama, etc)
 
Merry Christmas everyone. On this very special occasion, I am here to announce a discovery that will revolutionise the BH meta. I am become the Grinch, destroyer of Christmas. There is no joy to be had for what I am about to share with you. Let's now take a step back and look at the gen 9 BH meta. What was one of the most defining change this gem? The recovery PP nerf. Now I ask you: what is the best way to abuse this? That's right. SPITE. If you've never heard of this move I wouldn't blame you. Spite is a move that's only annoying in-game because it makes you run back to the Pokemon Centre after your 5 PP move is instantly deleted. But let's think about it for a second. Usually, your offensive mons force a Recover every move. Meanwhile, Spite instantly takes away 4 Recovers, making it effectively 4x as good as an offensive move. Of course it's not as easy as it sounds but a move that takes away 4/8 Recovers is probably broken, and with the right setup, we can make Spite exactly that.

Now the question everyone is wondering is what mons and sets can turn Spite into a broken move. Don't worry, I, as the Grinch of Christmas will not disappoint your desire to ruin Christmas for everyone. In my opinion, there are two types of mons that can make effective use out of Spite.

The first type of mons are tanky Ruination users. Ruination is guaranteed to half your opponent's hp which means they are almost always forced to Recover, unless it's a Regen mon. Because Ruination ignores offensive and defensive stats, any mon can utilise this combination. For slow mons, simply click Ruination and then Spite on the next turn if you predict Recover, or Ruination again if you predict a switch. At this point you might be wondering "hmm surely Ruination is better because it also forces Recover and takes up another turn". This is where you're WRONG. You see, Ruination is a 90% accurate move. The odds of hitting 4 Ruinations in a row is 65%. Also, it takes 4 whole turns to do it. This is at least 40 seconds of your valuable time that you're never recovering. Meanwhile, Spite removes the 4 PP instantly and with 100% accuracy. Mathematically speaking, the extra moveslot dedicated to Spite is definitely worth it.

Before I segway into the next type of mons that can use Spite, let's talk about what else Spite can do. Obviously Spite is extremely good at reducing 8 PP offensive moves. This ironically makes your own Recovers better because your opponent can run out of PP before your Recovers. For example, you only need to tank 4 Dragon Energies or V-Creates before you can Spite and never have to worry about then again. I'll briefly mention the synergy with Bulwark/Bunker as well which can further reduce the strain on your Recovers. Theoretically speaking you can Bunker twice, take an 8 PP move twice and Spite to remove all the PPs of the move. Another move you can Spite down is Stone Axe. Most people only run one "copy" of this move, sometimes two. I think three Stone Axes in one team is pretty overkill. Well, Stone Axe is an extremely telegraphed move. You always know that the Regen mon is gonna click it if rocks are not on your field. This makes it an easy predict to Spite if your mon is slower. If they clicked U-turn you're not too upset because that means you just denied them rocks. Of course you can also predict the U-turn and do something else. I think it's reasonable to land about 3-4 Spites. Factoring in the 90% accuracy, you can reasonably only have to deal with ~10 Stone Axes if your opponent only have one user. With Bulwark, this number is even less. I could be very wrong on these assumptions but I think it's not too far-fetched. Everything I just said about Stone Axe also applies to Mortal Spin. I think Rapid Spin has too much PP so if you want to go with this gameplan you should definitely have a Ghost spinblocker. Mortal Spin is also extremely telegraphed. If you set rocks on your opponent's field then obviously they want to remove them unless it's a Superman team (in which case you're better of Spiting Recovers). I think within the right team, it's definitely possible to PP stall out Mortal Spins so you remove your opponent's ability to clear hazards.

I think that covers the main purpose of Spite. You want to target Recovers or certain utility moves so your utility wins in the end. More examples of utility include setup moves like Take Heart, Victory Dance and Torch Song. Removing these moves' PP makes your Imposter extremely good since you autowin the setup war if the opponent can't even setup while you can. The other use for Spite is to remove 8 PP offensive moves to make walling easier. Bulwark/Bunker helps a lot with PP stalling.

Now that we've established fat mons with Ruination and/or Bulwark can make for good Spite users, let's talk about the other users of Spite which are non-choiced offensive mons. Obviously you don't want to lock yourself into Spite since it does no damage. This means you have to run it on MG or SF LO mons. The idea is the same. You hit the wall hard on the switchin. You hit them again as they Recover. Then you Spite to reduce their Recover PP to 3. The next time your offensive mon comes in, their wall can't wall anymore because they will run out of Recover PP. MG and SF mons are inherently weaker than Choiced mons so they usually only do about 28-35% to a dedicated FurScales wall. Spite expedites wallbreaking a lot. Just do the maths. Normally it would take 8 turns of attacking to remove 4 Recover PP, and your opponent gets a free turn every other turn. Meanwhile, Spite achieves that instantly. Spite is also arguably less MU fishy than a coverage move because its always useful if youre getting walled by something with Recover, and every non-regen wall has recovery. I will also mention that you should run Spite on mons that aren't walked by RegenVests. RegenVests don't run recovery so Spite is useless against them. You want your offensive mon to force a FurScales mon in.

Finally I'd like to talk about the disadvantages and counters to Spite. I think it's important to address these so you can understand the challenges in teambuilding and what to watch out for so you can maximise the power of Spite. The first big problem is switches. A switch completely counters Spite. This means you have to know when your opponent will switch and to plan accordingly. As mentioned previously, some moves are very telegraphed and predictable so it's pretty safe to Spite. Although I think the timing if Spite is a relatively large hurdle that players have to overcome, the upside is high enough given the current context of the meta that it can be an extremely effective move to force progress expedite games that players will enjoy using. There are several teambuilder options that can be used to ease the predictions. Firstly you can always run Magic Bounce/GaG or trapping/partial trapping moves like Spirit Shackle and Thunder Cage which removes hard switches. Alternatively you can also run hazard stack which discourages switches and forces your opponent to click removal moves. As mentioned above you can also just run offensive mons which naturally force recovery. Now the other and larger obstacle is Imposter. Imposters have infinite PP if they can switch so that's definitely really annoying. It's not completely terrible though. There are a few ways you can punish Imposters that copy your Spite mon. The easiest way is to run your own Imposter with Block. This allows you to PP stall out the opponent Imposter and make them struggle to death. Another way is to run the hard trapping move on another mon. This means Spirit Shackle on one of your mons. You can run double regen and just switch back and forth. If your Spite mon is offensive, you can make it hard for Imposters to switch in, especially if you have no recovery on it. I'll probably post a team later when I have built a team or found some good mon combinations that are improof.

That's the end for this advertisement sponsored by Big Spite. I'll just end off with some sets that you can yoink and twist. I'll also briefly mention running Eerie Spell on your RegenVest mon which might be viable but I think there are better moves to run. Eerie Spell is 8 PP and only reduces the opponent PP by 3 instead of 4. The damage is usually negligible so I think it's a lot worse than Spite.

blissey.gif

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Wish
- Burning Bulwark
- Ruination / Parting Shot
- Spite

giratina.gif

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Burning Bulwark
- Spite
- Wish
- Parting Shot

audino-mega.gif

Audino-Mega @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ruination
- Shore Up
- Spite
- Spikes / Topsy-Turvy

miraidon.gif

Miraidon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Cage
- Recover
- Spite
- Burning Bulwark

sceptile-mega.gif

Sceptile-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Chloroblast
- Dragon Energy
- Spite

kyurem-black.gif

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Glacial Lance
- Sunsteel Strike
- High Jump Kick
- Spite

necrozma-ultra.gif

Necrozma-Ultra @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Eerie Spell
- Dragon Energy
- High Jump Kick
- Gigaton Hammer

koraidon.gif

Koraidon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Arrows
- Dragon Tail
- Strength Sap
- Spite

Tldr: Spite "removes" 200% of your opponent's HP in 1 turn.
 
Last edited:
Merry Christmas everyone. On this very special occasion, I am here to announce a discovery that will revolutionise the BH meta. I am become the Grinch, destroyer of Christmas. There is no joy to be had for what I am about to share with you. Let's now take a step back and look at the gen 9 BH meta. What was one of the most defining change this gem? The recovery PP nerf. Now I ask you: what is the best way to abuse this? That's right. SPITE. If you've never heard of this move I wouldn't blame you. Spite is a move that's only annoying in-game because it makes you run back to the Pokemon Centre after your 5 PP move is instantly deleted. But let's think about it for a second. Usually, your offensive mons force a Recover every move. Meanwhile, Spite instantly takes away 4 Recovers, making it effectively 4x as good as an offensive move. Of course it's not as easy as it sounds but a move that takes away 4/8 Recovers is probably broken, and with the right setup, we can make Spite exactly that.

Now the question everyone is wondering is what mons and sets can turn Spite into a broken move. Don't worry, I, as the Grinch of Christmas will not disappoint your desire to ruin Christmas for everyone. In my opinion, there are two types of mons that can make effective use out of Spite.

The first type of mons are tanky Ruination users. Ruination is guaranteed to half your opponent's hp which means they are almost always forced to Recover, unless it's a Regen mon. Because Ruination ignores offensive and defensive stats, any mon can utilise this combination. For slow mons, simply click Ruination and then Spite on the next turn if you predict Recover, or Ruination again if you predict a switch. At this point you might be wondering "hmm surely Ruination is better because it also forces Recover and takes up another turn". This is where you're WRONG. You see, Ruination is a 90% accurate move. The odds of hitting 4 Ruinations in a row is 65%. Also, it takes 4 whole turns to do it. This is at least 40 seconds of your valuable time that you're never recovering. Meanwhile, Spite removes the 4 PP instantly and with 100% accuracy. Mathematically speaking, the extra moveslot dedicated to Spite is definitely worth it.

Before I segway into the next type of mons that can use Spite, let's talk about what else Spite can do. Obviously Spite is extremely good at reducing 8 PP offensive moves. This ironically makes your own Recovers better because your opponent can run out of PP before your Recovers. For example, you only need to tank 4 Dragon Energies or V-Creates before you can Spite and never have to worry about then again. I'll briefly mention the synergy with Bulwark/Bunker as well which can further reduce the strain on your Recovers. Theoretically speaking you can Bunker twice, take an 8 PP move twice and Spite to remove all the PPs of the move. Another move you can Spite down is Stone Axe. Most people only run one "copy" of this move, sometimes two. I think three Stone Axes in one team is pretty overkill. Well, Stone Axe is an extremely telegraphed move. You always know that the Regen mon is gonna click it if rocks are not on your field. This makes it an easy predict to Spite if your mon is slower. If they clicked U-turn you're not too upset because that means you just denied them rocks. Of course you can also predict the U-turn and do something else. I think it's reasonable to land about 3-4 Spites. Factoring in the 90% accuracy, you can reasonably only have to deal with ~10 Stone Axes if your opponent only have one user. With Bulwark, this number is even less. I could be very wrong on these assumptions but I think it's not too far-fetched. Everything I just said about Stone Axe also applies to Mortal Spin. I think Rapid Spin has too much PP so if you want to go with this gameplan you should definitely have a Ghost spinblocker. Mortal Spin is also extremely telegraphed. If you set rocks on your opponent's field then obviously they want to remove them unless it's a Superman team (in which case you're better of Spiting Recovers). I think within the right team, it's definitely possible to PP stall out Mortal Spins so you remove your opponent's ability to clear hazards.

I think that covers the main purpose of Spite. You want to target Recovers or certain utility moves so your utility wins in the end. More examples of utility include setup moves like Take Heart, Victory Dance and Torch Song. Removing these moves' PP makes your Imposter extremely good since you autowin the setup war if the opponent can't even setup while you can. The other use for Spite is to remove 8 PP offensive moves to make walling easier. Bulwark/Bunker helps a lot with PP stalling.

Now that we've established fat mons with Ruination and/or Bulwark can make for good Spite users, let's talk about the other users of Spite which are non-choiced offensive mons. Obviously you don't want to lock yourself into Spite since it does no damage. This means you have to run it on MG or SF LO mons. The idea is the same. You hit the wall hard on the switchin. You hit them again as they Recover. Then you Spite to reduce their Recover PP to 3. The next time your offensive mon comes in, their wall can't wall anymore because they will run out of Recover PP. MG and SF mons are inherently weaker than Choiced mons so they usually only do about 28-35% to a dedicated FurScales wall. Spite expedites wallbreaking a lot. Just do the maths. Normally it would take 8 turns of attacking to remove 4 Recover PP, and your opponent gets a free turn every other turn. Meanwhile, Spite achieves that instantly. Spite is also arguably less MU fishy than a coverage move because its always useful if youre getting walled by something with Recover, and every non-regen wall has recovery. I will also mention that you should run Spite on mons that aren't walked by RegenVests. RegenVests don't run recovery so Spite is useless against them. You want your offensive mon to force a FurScales mon in.

Finally I'd like to talk about the disadvantages and counters to Spite. I think it's important to address these so you can understand the challenges in teambuilding and what to watch out for so you can maximise the power of Spite. The first big problem is switches. A switch completely counters Spite. This means you have to know when your opponent will switch and to plan accordingly. As mentioned previously, some moves are very telegraphed and predictable so it's pretty safe to Spite. Although I think the timing if Spite is a relatively large hurdle that players have to overcome, the upside is high enough given the current context of the meta that it can be an extremely effective move to force progress expedite games that players will enjoy using. There are several teambuilder options that can be used to ease the predictions. Firstly you can always run Magic Bounce/GaG or trapping/partial trapping moves like Spirit Shackle and Thunder Cage which removes hard switches. Alternatively you can also run hazard stack which discourages switches and forces your opponent to click removal moves. As mentioned above you can also just run offensive mons which naturally force recovery. Now the other and larger obstacle is Imposter. Imposters have infinite PP if they can switch so that's definitely really annoying. It's not completely terrible though. There are a few ways you can punish Imposters that copy your Spite mon. The easiest way is to run your own Imposter with Block. This allows you to PP stall out the opponent Imposter and make them struggle to death. Another way is to run the hard trapping move on another mon. This means Spirit Shackle on one of your mons. You can run double regen and just switch back and forth. If your Spite mon is offensive, you can make it hard for Imposters to switch in, especially if you have no recovery on it. I'll probably post a team later when I have built a team or found some good mon combinations that are improof.

That's the end for this advertisement sponsored by Big Spite. I'll just end off with some sets that you can yoink and twist. I'll also briefly mention running Eerie Spell on your RegenVest mon which might be viable but I think there are better moves to run. Eerie Spell is 8 PP and only reduces the opponent PP by 3 instead of 4. The damage is usually negligible so I think it's a lot worse than Spite.

blissey.gif

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Wish
- Burning Bulwark
- Ruination / Parting Shot
- Spite

giratina.gif

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Burning Bulwark
- Spite
- Wish
- Parting Shot

audino-mega.gif

Audino-Mega @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Ice Scales
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ruination
- Shore Up
- Spite
- Spikes / Topsy-Turvy

miraidon.gif

Miraidon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunder Cage
- Recover
- Spite
- Burning Bulwark

sceptile-mega.gif

Sceptile-Mega @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Torch Song
- Chloroblast
- Dragon Energy
- Spite

kyurem-black.gif

Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Glacial Lance
- Sunsteel Strike
- High Jump Kick
- Spite

necrozma-ultra.gif

Necrozma-Ultra @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Psychic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Eerie Spell
- Dragon Energy
- High Jump Kick
- Gigaton Hammer

koraidon.gif

Koraidon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Fighting
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Triple Arrows
- Dragon Tail
- Strength Sap
- Spite

Tldr: Spite "removes" 200% of your opponent's HP in 1 turn.
I’m surprised you didn’t put selfproofed Imp trappers. Stuff like moms that click Spirit Shackle, trap Imp and drain down the 20 PP, while sacrificing 20 of their own PP.
 
As part of the Spite advertisement project, I have arduously and meticulously crafted a team for everyone to try. I hope that by using this team you can witness and behold the power of Spite as a way to break through FC walls.


https://pokepast.es/6e4b0f74df76bbb1


This is a team featuring our favourite oldgen birds Big Talonflame and Big Mandibuzz. This team has Spite Ho-oh and Bounce Tyranitar to limit the opposing FC wall ability to recover HP. Our mons also can pressure Wish Chansey/Blissey with physical moves so they can't wish pass very easily. We also can Spite the Chansey/Blissey on the Bulwark turn because Bulwark doesn't block status moves. This removes 4 PP from Bulwark which is helpful to PP stall it. We have really good hazard removal so we dont have to spam boots. Finally if you're one of the prestigious Tyranitar enjoyers club then this is one of the few teams that exist for you.
 
Last edited:
As part of the Spite advertisement project, I have arduously and meticulously crafted a team for everyone to try. I hope that by using this team you can witness and behold the power of Spite as a way to break through FC walls.

https://pokepast.es/c1f9a41b0cbb257d

This is a team featuring our favourite oldgen birds Big Talonflame and Big Mandibuzz. This team has Spite Ho-oh and Bounce Tyranitar to limit the opposing FC wall ability to recover HP. Our mons also can pressure Wish Chansey/Blissey with physical moves so they can't wish pass very easily. We also can Spite the Chansey/Blissey on the Bulwark turn because Bulwark doesn't block status moves. This removes 4 PP from Bulwark which is helpful to PP stall it. We have really good hazard removal so we dont have to spam boots. Finally if you're one of the prestigious Tyranitar enjoyers club then this is one of the few teams that exist for you.
>Spite advertisement
>Made a team
>Only one mon has Spite
 
As part of the Spite advertisement project, I have arduously and meticulously crafted a team for everyone to try. I hope that by using this team you can witness and behold the power of Spite as a way to break through FC walls.

https://pokepast.es/c1f9a41b0cbb257d

This is a team featuring our favourite oldgen birds Big Talonflame and Big Mandibuzz. This team has Spite Ho-oh and Bounce Tyranitar to limit the opposing FC wall ability to recover HP. Our mons also can pressure Wish Chansey/Blissey with physical moves so they can't wish pass very easily. We also can Spite the Chansey/Blissey on the Bulwark turn because Bulwark doesn't block status moves. This removes 4 PP from Bulwark which is helpful to PP stall it. We have really good hazard removal so we dont have to spam boots. Finally if you're one of the prestigious Tyranitar enjoyers club then this is one of the few teams that exist for you.
This is one of the few metas where offensive mons have Fur Coat and I hate it.
 
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