BH Balanced Hackmons

DF-Shock · Dec 14, 2022

Thanks Chessking for your post, it's resume quite well why I find PH broken and not VDQD. Like he said, VDQD isn't the problem actually. It is the combinaison of Poison Heal + Taunt + set-up move (including VDQD but also Tidy up that is already play in the meta, Shift gear already played too, and worse option but playable if VDQD will be ban like CM or Bulk up...). So if isn't the the set-up the problem actually why do you want to ban them? If you play VDQD in other pokemon than PH, it isn't that broken because they can't have all the benefits of Poison heal (Passive recovery so you could not run a healing move and run taunt, statuts immunity...). So for me it is Poison Heal the problem.

Poison Heal IS the problem, It is so hard to deal with it, specially if the opponent run Taunt on it. Entrainment / Worry Seed / Gastro Acid are all blocked by that... Some people runs it on Prankster but if the Poison Heal is a Dark type what they will do? Nothing... Also running Sub on Poison Heal could be play to ignore that or Strength Sap spamming for exemple... Whirlwind is also blocked by Taunt so if you want to phaze, you must run Dtail for exemple, and it could miss...Poison heal are self-improof so even with Imposter you can't beat it. Chessking talk about Toxic orb Imposter, but even with that with Tera you could beat it because you are immun to your old STAB not him... An exemple :

Arceus-Ground @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Tera Type: Flying
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tidy Up
- Knock Off
- Precipice Blades
- Taunt

This set is from QT, actually 1st in the BH ladder (I'm not sure about the nature). He don't run VDQD but Tidy Up because it removes hazards and substitute and don't give boosted def on imposter. Taunt annihilate defensive pokemon in general because they can't heal, if they are Prankster and not running Entrainment, they haze or recover but can't do both... Knock off is utility and against Chansey imposter and Pblades is the STAB move, destroys Steel (like Steel Prankster) and against a Toxic Orb imposter, he could Tera Flying and denying the imposter who cannot kill Arceus because of passive recovery. And in the case of the imposter could defeat it, he have others pokemons and could switch on a prankster Entrainment for exemple...
It is just an exemple, but you see why VDQD suspect is useless. We will still have PH set-up Taunt in the meta even after a ban of VDQD. And PH will still hard to deal because we lack of Core Enfoncer...

Also, because is the PH the problem what do you think about unbaning Slaking, banned because the PH set is too strong once PH is banned? Seems really legit for me because Slaking had one set really good, the PH set. I didn't say it, but I have always find Slaking quickban injust because I knew it was Poison Heal the problem and it was just move the problem elsewhere.

Actually phazing is really hard to do... Against Moody Spam, you must run Whirlwind and against PH taunt you must run Dtail or Circle Throw, who could be ignored by immunity (Fairy / Ghost)...So what we can do ? Running Prankster haze on all team with Entrainment to disable PH? Like I said, Entrainment Prankster isn't the perfect solution to counter PH actually (sub or Dark) and it is kinda passive against Moody Spam, they just could wait to have nice boost for doing nothing...I should run Opportunist to counter set-up?

Moody isn't healthy for the meta. A low ladder could beat you because he had the right boost at the right timing. Moody is random, and random isn't competitive. The council kept banned Illusion because it was healthy for tournaments for exemple. Why do you think Moody is healthy and playable in OMPL for exemple ? Just for that, i think it should be banned. A sub+protect move Moody is annoying, if you got offensive boost, you could use it, if you got defensive boost your sub is harder to break, speed allows you to outspeed offensive pokemon and sub-tect against them...
I don't still understand why it doesn't get banned yet. Somebody get 9th in the ladder just by spamming a Moody spam team (far of be optimised for me but it still works...) just because even if the player was in a bad timing, Moody triggers, and let him win. Prankster Haze isn't a solution in long term and is passive... Phazing? like I said early, phazing is kinda hard to do.

I agree with the council concerning Orichalcum Pulse. Hardly counter by Psea in general. Soft counter by Well-baked body. So for me, it isn't that great. Swords of Ruins is strong but it triggers when the pokemon arrive in the battlefield so you know what the opponent want to do... Maybe too strong, but at this moment, I didn't have trouble with it, maybe it will be too strong after... Also you could have trouble to improof it because of the def drop, maybe? Honnestly, i didn't have tested the ability yet so...

Gorilla Tactics you don't see it, the imposter is also locked on one move and I have concern about it because I know pokemon like Groudon could OHKO/2HKO a lot of thing just by spamming Headlong Rush. Also I will talk about Zacian-C. I don't really understand why the council want to suspect it. If your answers have "the Gorilla Tactics Band set" in mind, maybe could put a Red flag on why Gorilla Tactics could be suspected and why not banned. I think people didn't realised yet the power of Tera + Really strong STAB like Gorilla Band could do.

About Tera, it is a good thing for the meta for me, and you could have a lot of funny things to do with it in the teambuilding...
I already gave my opinion on Tera. I don't think it is good in defense but in offense it is great. I don't know if my opinion about it is popular or not but if yes, if we could create a clause to limit the Tera power instead of just banning it if it is too strong... Tera is a great tool in teambuilding/matches it will be a shame if we couldn't use anymore.

I will also share my team as a sample:
Team Name: Adieu, Goodbye, Auf Wiedersehen
Description: A Balanced team with 2 greats wallbreakers
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/beb9d3ad95669b2c
How to use: Tera Groudon allows you to break almost any defensive core with his STAB. Corviknight is the improof. Arceus with set-up is hard to kill and self improof. You could tera it against Miraidon Rising voltage or against Salt Cure Spamming if Groudon have a bad match-up. Corviknight and others pokemons is my defensive core, could give the tempo to safely put Groundon.
Weaknesses: Water Spamming is hard to deal in general. Tera Skeledirge could help you against Palafin and Tera Ting-lu against Palkia.
Fairy Boomburst could be hard also. Tera Ting-Lu or Zama-C is good against it.
Other options : Could remplace some moves on defensives pokemons (like Salt Cure, Mortal Spin, Dtail...), Groudon could run V-create or other fire move. Arceus could run something else than Coton Guard.
Effectiveness: Personally I have 6 alts in +1500 ELO with this team.

Ace Roll · Dec 15, 2022

Gen 9 BH is such a beautiful mess of a metagame and i love it! Terastalize is the perfect defensive utility to combat all the crazy new moves and abilities or potential "nuke" to deal with defensive counterplay. That being said, moody and gorilla tactics should definitely go for a more competitive metagame.

Here is a very generic team I made without much thought:
https://pokepast.es/2a607345751e2ec7

PH is actually very nice. Slaking is banned for some reason so I tried ursaluna, which is decent thanks to its dual ground type, but a little powerlacking non the less. Gorilla tactics groudon, or even "any ability groudon" would be a more fitting member on the team.
Palafin is definitely the hero of this team, not only being self impostered with tera grass, it beats moody sets and other annoying walls + it is extremely fun to use.

damflame 3 · Dec 15, 2022

Team Name : Always Make Progress
Description : Double PH fat ft Chansey
Pokepaste : https://pokepast.es/b96af269fbe89a12
How to use : The main gameplan is to make progress with Zamazenta and a lot of scrub moves like salt curl or mortal spin, to drop passively the opponent HP. Finally, you can clean with PH Ceus. Chansey is her to scout opponent set,to permit you to active with no risk your 2toxic orb.
Weaknesses : I have noticed one main issue with that team. Band Groudon, your main physical tank doesn't check it. But if you play well you can solve these issues, with the Zamazenta, Chansey, Arceus or hazard pressure, just don’t let Groudon in free, and it will be good. You can also use Terra on him, to dodge ground moves and solve the problem, but it has a cost.
Maybe another weakness is Moody Spam, you can beat it if they don’t have the right boost, but if they you probably will lose
Effectiveness : It allowed me to go to 1550s without effort, and went 30-2 with it ( 83.3% of GXE ). It is pretty easy to use if you are used to play passively

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-1742734069-i1m1v91cz2hdvfvxs9whf5rw4vka197pw ( replay against band Groudon )
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-1741391540-vniyfr3i99itiux9iqpziq17i9fh0k1pw ( against stall )

Just another thing I want to add on the meta, pls ban Moody, it is total luck, if you have right boost you won, if you don't have you lose
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-1742915310-vjd2vy7yup7wkvje9lb7hyx2inpb9xzpw ( replay where I won because opponent don't have spe atk boost )
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9balancedhackmons-1742947089-7urmr8x2g0b37lpilnqe67l5tq1q7f6pw ( replay where I lose because he have spe atk boost )

Tea Guzzler · Dec 16, 2022

Hi! It's been 5 days since we launched the survey, and since we have 25 responses we've decided to go on what we have so far.

Q1: How much are you currently enjoying BH?

The majority of responses are around 7/8, with a couple of outliers scattered in either direction and an average score of 7.36. This indicates that, generally, people are having fun with the metagame despite there being room for improvement. The council is alright with this number, since it indicates that a decent amount of playstyles and structures are viable.

Q2: How competitive do you think BH is?

This chart shows a much more bell-curve-like shape with more distributed results and an average score of 6.4. This would indicate that BH is partially but not fully competitive - skill plays a large role in gameplay, however matchup fishing and some overbearing factors play a more-than-desirable role, meaning BH isn't as competitive as it could be.

Q3: How enjoyable is BH to watch?

A wider distribution of results than the other 2, with an average score of 6.52. This shows that people are overall happy with watching BH, however it still seems that games ending with similar conclusions or having similar ways of making progress might be dragging this down a little. We’re hoping that this increases with tiering action allowing for more flexibility and creativity.

Q4: How much do you think building in BH is flexible and allows for creativity?

This question has a much more even distribution and an average of 6.68, which would indicate that building is somewhat free but still has confinements that most teams will find themselves sticking to. Factors in the metagame, such as Poison Heal and Gorilla Tactics, have issues with leading to fairly rigid team structures in order to fit reliably counterplay, which might explain some of the lower votes here.

Q5: What are your opinions on Moody?

Unsurprisingly, 92% of responses here are calling for action on Moody, with the 2 other voters still not opposed to a Moody ban. Moody is largely viewed as uncompetitive and unhealthy to the tier, only really held back by RNG and the fact that users only have 2 effective moveslots - however, this doesn’t stop dedicated Moody teams attempting to brute-force their way through opponents. We’ll be keeping a close eye on this.

Q6: What are your opinions on Terastallization?

The results for this are actually quite surprising, with an overwhelming 88% of responses leaning towards Terastallizing being a fine addition in the tier and only 12% requesting that action be taken on it. We likely will revisit Terastal down the line, however there's no immediate clambering for a ban on it and it generally seems to be a healthy addition in the tier. Waiting until we see what OU does with Terastal in the ongoing suspect is likely of use as well, since if they end up clausing it so you can see Tera Types (or other alternatives) that might be something considered here.

Q7: What are your opinions on Zacian-Crowned?

Almost the exact same outcome as the previous question, with only one voter shifting over to "I would like to see action". Zacian-C's nerfs this generation seem, at least from what the chart shows, to outweigh the new additions it has in Magical Torque, Gigaton Hammer and Victory Dance - this, included with the overall higher bulk of the tier compared to last generation (minus a few options like Zygarde-C), could indicate that Zacian-C is generally balanced. We'll be keeping an eye on it, but there doesn't seem to be any impending need to remove it.

Q8: What are your opinions on Orichalcum Pulse?

Compared to the above propositions, this vote has a notably smaller proportion of people who are indifferent and a substantially larger group who believe it's completely balanced. I mainly included Orichalcum Pulse in the survey due to threats such as OPulse Banded Zacian-C and Mixed Arceus-Fire, which has seen some discussion - however, it seems these claims are mostly in the minority. We will likely be keeping an eye on it, but it’s not one of our main focuses currently.

Q9: What are your opinions on Miraidon?

Contrarily to Moody, an 88% supermajority of voters believe Miraidon is a "fine" addition to the tier. This was largely included as thanks to the Specs set's massive instant power, which some argue practically mandates an Ice Scales user capable of handling it on every team else to not lose to it. Just from what we see here it's generally not overbearing, especially since it is vulnerable to being scouted by RegenVest, chased out by Zacian-C and whittled away by chip damage, however given 60% of voters are in favour of/aren't opposed to tiering action, we'll be watching this.

Q10: What are your views on bulky set-up users?

This is the big question and what most of you are probably here for (which is why the title's bigger). Nearly half of all responses cite Poison Heal as the primary contributing factor, with Victory and Quiver Dance not far behind, and the rest of the responses only carrying one or two votes. This would imply there's a pretty pronounced split between the 2 key contributing factors, with Poison Heal carrying slightly more weight to it, and also between differing views on stuff in a post-ban metagame (non-PH VQD users vs Calm Mind/Bulk Up/Tidy Up PH). We'll be discussing this and will probably have an outcome by early next week at the latest.

Q11: Is there anything else you think action should be taken on in the future?

There's no graph for this one so i'll just collate the results here (note: this doesn't include voting options already listed above):

6/17 Responses - Gorilla Tactics
3/17 Responses - Hadron Engine, Ceaseless Edge
2/17 Responses - Nuzzle/Glare (if PH gets banned)
1/17 Responses - Dire Claw, Imposter, Fur Coat, Accupressure, Covert Cloak

Gorilla Tactics being mentioned in over ⅓ of votes is not surprising, since it was banned within 4 days of the council's formation last generation, and generally ensures users can 2HKO virtually the entire tier - however, the pool of users is currently very small (Zacian-C, Groudon, and Ursaluna), who can be argued to be one-dimensional and inflexible, on top of Zacian-C's -20 Base Attack. The concerns around Hadron Engine are likely to be answered with any Miraidon action listed above, since this seems to be the only viable user currently. Action on Paralysis can't really be determined now, since PH is allowed, so would have to wait until any potential actions happen. Of the arguments with only 1 vote, Dire Claw is the only one that holds any merit to me, since it encourages spamming to fish for a way around Sleep Clause, and RegenVest mons often find themselves with dead moveslots where it can easily fit. It's not nearly prevalent enough to be put on a proper watchlist, however i'll likely be keeping personal watch on it.

Overall, we’re taking all of this into consideration and will be making some policy decisions soon. Thanks for responding and reading!

quojova · Dec 17, 2022

Team Name: Turboblaze zacian + ph arc-ghost balance
Description: Turboblaze zacian + ph arc-ghost balance
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/77469b7ef4440277
How to use: Very few teams can defensively answer zacian and arc-ghost. Just figure out which one wins easier and then usually tera that mon.
Weaknesses: I'm not aware of any particular weaknesses. It might be hard to win if they have a moltres too but that's the improof so there's not too much you can do about that.
Effectiveness: did well in tour + ladder

Akira 153 · Dec 17, 2022

Team Name: Corner Store
Description: Balance team based around SNR Ghostceus and Specs Miraidon featuring Scales Clodsire
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/c98062287ac0e9bd
How to use: Make progress with arceus-ghost, once the team is softened, hard reads with miraidon can usually clean up. Zacian confusehax and status from dondozo and clodsire can force situations where ghostceus can set up without fear of status, but it can generally perform even if burned or paralysed.
Weaknesses: PH taunt qd mons that dondozo can't handle (especially ghostceus), generally you can try and power through these with your ghostceus or with zacian but it can end up pretty matchup fishy with what PH sets can beat what teams. Try swapping around clod and dondo's phazing moves if need be.
Effectiveness: Got to top 5 on ladder pretty easily, won several games against reputed players.

XxLazzerpenguinxX · Dec 20, 2022

Moody has been showing increasing signs of being unhealthy for the metagame, Gorilla Tactics has grown in prominence among physical attackers, allowing them to do enormous amounts of damage, and Poison Heal sweepers have been found to be extremely difficult to prep for and check long term. As a result, BH council has elected to vote on these matters. Bellow you can see the results of the vote.

	XxLazzerpenguinxX	quojova	cityscapes	Tea Guzzler	TTTech	Result
Moody	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban	Ban
Gorilla Tactics	Do not ban	Do not ban	Ban	Do not ban	Ban	Do not ban
Poison Heal	Suspect	Suspect	Suspect	Suspect	Suspect	suspect

Moody's signs of being unhealthy have been found to warrant a ban by the BH council. Although there are effective methods to check Moody, such as prankster, unaware, and phazing. Moody users have the tools - or RNG necessary to break through these sets either through status, or having a favorable typing over them. The RNG nature of Moody is also inherently unhealthy. Teams such as Akira's seen here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons.3710859/post-9431530, have been shown to be effective, require very specific counterplay (strain on team builder), and able to still break through their checks given the right luck. Moody in now banned from gen9 balanced hackmons.

Gorilla Tactics is extremely powerful, giving users the ability to ohko non-resists, or 2hko resists and fc pokemon. Although, just off of base power, Gorilla Tactics can seem overbearing, Gorilla Tactics sets are very one dimensional, and there still seems to be effective ways of playing around them in game, even if on paper, they are difficult to check in the builder. Additionally, the most common Gorilla Tactics users, Zacian-Crowned & Groudon, have other sets besides Gorilla Tactics, so at times their Gorilla Tactics sets are naturally checked in a team. Additionally, the current metagame, which heavily favors Poison Heal sweeping, isn't very conducive for Gorilla Tactics. However, as the metagame continues to evolve Gorilla Tactics may show itself as being broken. I would say the close vote of (3 - 2) to not ban Gorilla Tactics is a good indicator of where council overall currently stands. Gorilla Tactics will remain in the gen9 BH metagame.

Poison Heal has been of much discussion recently. Many people currently see it as matchup fishy, potentially unhealthy, and feel its effects greatly in the builder. BH9 has lost many of the tools we've previously had in gen8BH to counter poison heal, and as a results it's exploded to great prominance. As a result, by unanimous decision, BH council has decided to suspect Poison Heal. You can find the suspect thread here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bh-suspect-1-poison-heal.3713105/

Last but not least, samples are now updated! Congratulations to all who had their samples chosen, and happy laddering.
(Also, sample submissions still aren't closed, we just wanted to have some updated samples, before the suspect ladder opened up, so if you still have teams you'd like to submit, please do so and we'll take a look at em!)

Tagging Kris to implement.

Tea Guzzler · Dec 20, 2022

Resources thread is live btw! https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons-resources-thread.3712766/

Kidawa · Dec 25, 2022

Hi, I have some nerdy stats to posts, someone might find it interesting.
Recently I have been using this set :

Zacian-Crowned @ King's Rock
Ability: Pixilate
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Coil
- Population Bomb
- Knock Off
- Strength Sap

Trading Protective Pads + coverage for Knock Off + flinch chance. But how much flinch chance ?
After x0 Coil : 0 to 10 hits = ~41.6% chance to flinch
After x1 Coil : 10 hits guaranteed = 70% chance to flinch

Then let's take a very common counter to Zacian-C and calc the damage after 1 Coil :
+1 252 Atk Pixilate Zacian-Crowned Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Dondozo: 300-360 (59.5 - 71.4%) -- approx. 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Pixilate Zacian-Crowned Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arceus-Water: 220-270 (49.5 - 60.8%) -- approx. 99.6% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Pixilate Zacian-Crowned Population Bomb (10 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arceus-Fire: 110-130 (24.7 - 29.2%) -- approx. 100% chance to 4HKO

Not very impressive, but keep in mind that vs a neutral Arceus form, 70% chance to flinch basically means you have 70% chance to OHKO. This Zacian can "OHKO" would-be-counters by flinching them to death just like Togekiss vs Blissey.
Arceus-Fire/Steel seems like a good counter but then I wondered whats the odd of beating a resisting Arceus form taking flinches into account.
So the final stat is : ~34.3% chance to beat 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arceus-Fire from full after 1 Coil.
You can basically bypass a perfect counter after 1 Coil one times out of three.

I don't know if anything is banworthy here but I think it's interesting anyway. It's easy to improof and has some stallbreaking potential I think. I really believe the Togekiss comparison is good here because in theory this set can beat 1v1 any slower mon, but in practice it's not that much of a problem. No need to bring the Iron Barbs Heatran.

Chance to flinch after 1 Coil is a quick calculation : 1 - (1 - .1)¹⁰ = .7
For the chance to flinch after 0 coil I did it the dirty way with simulations.
Same for the chance to beat Arceus-Fire.
Here is the code in javascript so anyone can copy-paste it in the dev console of their browser to reproduce my results :

JavaScript:

const N = 1_000_000 // number of times the simulation runs

console.log('running', N, 'simulations...')

// Flinch part

function flinch_sim() {
    for (let _ in [...Array(10)]) {
        if (Math.random()>.9) { break } // miss
        if (Math.random()<.1) { return true } // flinch
    }
    return false
}

const flinch_chance = [...Array(N * 100)].filter(_ => flinch_sim()).length / N


// Damage part

// this data is given by the official calculator
const possible_hits = [11, 11, 11, 11, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 13]

// select any damage from possible range
function hit() { return possible_hits[Math.floor(Math.random()*possible_hits.length)] }
function crit_mod() { return Math.random()<(1/24) ? 1.5 : 1 }

function attack_dmg() { return [...Array(10)].map(_ => hit() * crit_mod()).reduce((a,b) => a+b) }

const max_health = 444

function battle_sim() {
    let arceus = max_health
    while (true) {
        arceus -= attack_dmg()
        if (Math.random()>.7) break // did not flinch
    }
    return arceus
}

const kill_chance = [...Array(N * 100)].filter(_ => battle_sim() <= 0).length / N

console.log(`flinch chance: ${flinch_chance}%`)
console.log(`kill chance: ${kill_chance}%`)

Tea Guzzler · Dec 26, 2022

DEALING WITH CHEESE: GEN 9 EDITION
(gen 8 version)
You probably already know the drill, but if you don't, this is basically a guide on how to deal with ""cheese" strats in Gen 9 BH. This is mostly aimed at newer players as an informative piece on things that should be considered within teambuilding, as to not lose to them on preview (which, by their nature, most of these strats aim to do. There's actually less cheese this gen than last.

As for what i'd define as cheese, "a strategy that both depends heavily on a team's matchup and aims to remove the majority of skill from the game" seems like a decent umbrella definition. There's not really any one-size-fits-all one, but most cheese is pretty intuitive (and sometimes easy) to pick up on.

IMPRISON + TRANSFORM

If you didn't know, we got this banned right at the end of last gen - however, the ban wasn't carried over and it is unfortunately unlikely that it gets banned with all the nerfs it got. SV lacks Anchor Shot and Thousand Waves, the only 2 trapping moves anybody ever used, and also introduced Covert Cloak which blocks secondary effects (including Spirit Shackle's trapping). As such, this is less popular than last gen, though still worth considering in the builder. It's worth noting that of the 3 usable trapping methods (Spirit Shackle, Jaw Lock, Mean Look/Spider Web/etc.), Jaw Lock and Mean Look aren't affected by Covert Cloak. Since mons running Imprison + Transform are able to do even less damage than they could last gen, any bulky pivot such as RegenVest users, Dondozo, or any Parting Shot mon are sufficient to counter this, and also overlap as good scouting tools. Good as Gold also blocks Transform from working at all, thus hard counters these.

NORMALIZE

Terastal and the return of Judgment both buff "standard" Normalize sets (like the Flutter Mane) and enable any mon to theoretically become AcuPass Dragapult from last gen. Entrainment or Skill Swap allow you to give the opponent Normalize, which means if the user is a Ghost-type the opponent can't hit you with attacks, essentially giving you free turns. Flutter Mane enjoys Ghost or Fairy Judgment complimented by QD, which both boosts attack power and prevents it from being chased out by faster mons like Zacian-C. The hardest counters are Good as Gold and Ability Shield, since these completely blank Entrainment, with other methods such as Haze, Glare, Revelation Dance, Magic Bounce, and Prankster Entrainment also useful. Knock Off can potentially be good but IS NOT RECOMMENDED as your only Normalize counterplay, since Normalize Arceus-Ghost exists and has an unremovable Plate. Your own Judgment + Plate users can work, but Normalize mons typically always have QD, can out-damage common Plate users like Miraidon, and sometimes have Strength Sap.

The second set is a lot more precarious to play around, largely because you often lose on the spot if you get trapped on the wrong mon. Teams going for this win will normally follow the same structure:

A dedicated Baton Pass recipient. Runs Imprison/Haze/Heart Swap/Power Trip, normally with a damage ability like Mold Breaker or Sword of Ruin. Does nothing of value if the cheese fails.
One or two trappers - will always have the set above, can either be default Ghost-type or carry Tera Ghost and use Tera if they trap you.
Three or four normal mons - create opportunities for the trapping to actually happen + potentially win if the cheese can't happen.

Teams going for this strat rely on 2 key factors - matchups where they can trap a lot of stuff, and surprise factor. Since there's no need to run Spirit Shackle for the cheese to happen, Covert Cloak is not really a solution. The hardest counters are Good as Gold, Ability Shield, Ghost-types, and moves that prevent a successful Baton Pass (Haze, Toxic, Teleport, Parting Shot, Whirlwind). Once you know that a team's going for this, it becomes pretty trivial to win by playing the extremely safe scouting game.

ENCORE + DISABLE

Aims to trap you and force you to self-KO with Struggle. Hard countered by Good as Gold, Magic Bounce, and Dark-types (immune to Prankster mons' status moves). Lacks reliable recovery so often needs to be pivoted in to do anything safely.

MULTI-HIT FLINCHES

Population Bomb and Beat Up all being multi-hit moves, as well as each having an independent chance to trigger King's Rock, inevitably means people will try and and never allow you to move. With Serene Grace, Population Bomb has about an 89% chance to flinch with 10 hits, and Beat Up has about a 74% chance with 6 hits.

Chance to flinch with SG + King’s = 20%
Chance to not get flinched = 80%, only way for opponent to move is if every flinch fails -> need the 80% roll 10 (or 6) times to dodge the flinch

0.8 ^ 10 = 0.1073741824, so 10.73% chance that opponent dodges flinch -> 89.26% chance for Serene Grace Population Bomb to flinch. For Beat Up, 0.8 ^ 6 = 0.262144, so 73.78% chance for SG Beat Up.

Without Serene Grace, King’s is 10%, so chance to not get flinched = 90%. 0.9 ^ 10 = 0.3486784401 -> 65.13% chance for non-SG Pop Bomb to flinch. Beat Up is 46.85% to flinch.

Whilst these probabilities look daunting, the important thing to realize is that it's most likely a Regieleki that's using these, thus it is doing basiclaly no damage. The easiest way around this is using priority, Fur Coat (so you have the bulk to fish for a turn you don't get flinched), Rocky Helmet, Covert Cloak and Knock Off. There is a certain amount of set variety that these things can carry, such as Magic Guard + King's Rock or Stench + Protective Pads, however to get the maximum flinch chance they need to give up the immunity to Rocky Helmet.

GAMBITSPAM

Yet another cheese strat nerfed this gen, this time indirectly. GsmbitSpam suffers heavily from the increased HP level of the meta (from things like Arceus, Dondozo, and Ursaluna) meaning Gambit is easier to stop from killing, but perhaps even more so from Zacian-C. Its massive Speed and Attack mean that only 3 (Eternatus & both Giratinas) viable Gambit users can actually outrun it with a Scarf, none of which have stellar HP or switch in on Zacian. In addition, Good as Gold and Ability Shield make simply cheesing the end-game with Encore + Disable, Perish Song, or Normalize significantly harder. The easiest way around this is to identify what the opponent isn't gambiting with (usually the thing with the lowest HP) and preserve the best counter to it, considering both standard sets and Tera Ghost + Normalize. Priority and Chansey also give you ways to potentially live Final Gambit (priority by damaging the Gambit user and reducing Gambit's damage, Chansey by just living the hit).

On a side note, these teams are always highly telegraphed - you'll immediately know what they're trying because their team'll look something like this:

Species Clause being in place also hurts these teams even more, as they can't run both Giratina forms.

BATON PASS CHAINS

These aim to constantly use Baton Pass to transfer boosts between teammates, eventually stacking enough to pass to a mon that can end the game. Phazing moves are more common than last gen but still aren't very effective due to negative priority (for the damaging ones) and Good as Gold (for the non-damaging ones), on top of pre-existing stuff like Ingrain. The easiest way around these teams is Haze, both on Prankster mons and on others, as mons on these teams often lack instant recovery outside of Leftovers and Ingrain - as such, Haze allows you to delay the opponent long enough to gradually wear down a link in the chain to the point where it no longer functions. I've also had good success with Mixed Boomburst attackers such as Enamorus and Rayquaza. As a bonus, the game basically ends if a mon on the Baton Pass side dies, so you can get away with slamming multiple breakers to overwhelm just one target.

If you're wondering why Prankster + Electrify and Prankster + Copycat aren't here, it's because Electrify doesn't exist in Gen 9 and Copycat has no viable users. The loss of Marowak means that nothing is able to use the only powerful semi-invulnerable move (Shadow Force) with any strength, and even still Gen 9 is far bulkier than Gen 8 so it would likely be worse.

Lectrys · Dec 26, 2022

I have to note that Good as Gold blocks Transform and therefore stifles Imprisonform, at least in the cartridge Pokemon SV games. (The best way to remember this is that this is the reason why trying to farm Dittos for Gimmighoul Coins by attempting to make them Transform into your own Gholdengo fails.)

Tea Guzzler · Dec 28, 2022

not doing anything atm so just dropping some notes on wallbreakers and their current position

:ss/zacian-crowned:

Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Band
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Magical Torque
- V-create
- Headlong Rush
- U-turn

gtactics is sort of a matchup fish but sort of overprep problems - the main issue with stuff like gtactics zacian is that it's strong in the figurative sense but torque isn't actually hitting common walls for super-effective damage, meaning you can really struggle to get past. other gt users like groudon and ursaluna have these issues too, so for breaking past really fat stuff like fur coat dozo and don you need support from another teammate - unfortunately, flower trick arceus-grass is kinda bad, so your best bet is stuff like mortal spin and ruination/taunt which are neither very consistent nor reliable.

:sv/miraidon:

Miraidon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Dragon
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Energy
- Rising Voltage
- Volt Switch
- Origin Pulse

similar to the above, in that specs stuff is an automatic KO button until you load into a regenvest mon, at which point it mostly becomes either a volt switch bot or a dead slot. stuff like AV goodra, scales clodsire, AV ting-lu, and even niche stuff like scales zac running around annoy specs breakers a lot, so you need similar support to gtactics except the stuff you need to remove is less exploitable. tried this team with gambit etern to remove AVers and scales mons for specs mirai to clean up, it's really not worth it; the amount of hoops you need to jump through to enable the specs breaker takes too long and you're probably better off just winning with something else.

March of Death (Hoopa-Unbound) @ Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Shift Gear
- Wicked Blow
- V-create
- Grass Knot

this is basically the only mon running mixed rn. other alternatives that attempt to make the broken attacking stats work, such as mixed sheer force, exist but are underexplored and hoopa hates its speed tier when only boosting to +1. other mixed attackers either hate the rest of the tier (ray and enam) or hate imposter (ori arc-fire).

:ss/zacian-crowned:

Zacian-Crowned @ Pixie Plate
Ability: Turboblaze
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Magical Torque
- Precipice Blades
- Strength Sap

moldy stuff is ok? physical moldy is definitely better than special moldy. the main issue i think is that only zacian is really fast and strong enough to viably run setup moldy, and there's no good moldy banders (even for something like band gt zacian, moldy only really nets you a relevant improvement against fc arceus). moldy stuff generally just hates how bulky stuff is without furscales, most notably dozo, AVers and arc, so winning with these can often be a slog when they can't cripple or break through these by themselves.

yeah generally things lack the raw power or self-sufficiency to wallbreak in the tier currently, building teams revolving exclusively around wallbreakers generally isn't yielding extensive results and it's easier to just take a more gradual approach to winning.

IMPERIUM OF MAN · Dec 29, 2022

XxLazzerpenguinxX said:
Moody has been showing increasing signs of being unhealthy for the metagame, Gorilla Tactics has grown in prominence among physical attackers, allowing them to do enormous amounts of damage, and Poison Heal sweepers have been found to be extremely difficult to prep for and check long term. As a result, BH council has elected to vote on these matters. Bellow you can see the results of the vote.

XxLazzerpenguinxX quojova cityscapes Tea Guzzler TTTech Result
Moody Ban Ban Ban Ban Ban Ban
Gorilla Tactics Do not ban Do not ban Ban Do not ban Ban Do not ban
Poison Heal Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect Suspect suspect

Moody's signs of being unhealthy have been found to warrant a ban by the BH council. Although there are effective methods to check Moody, such as prankster, unaware, and phazing. Moody users have the tools - or RNG necessary to break through these sets either through status, or having a favorable typing over them. The RNG nature of Moody is also inherently unhealthy. Teams such as Akira's seen here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/balanced-hackmons.3710859/post-9431530, have been shown to be effective, require very specific counterplay (strain on team builder), and able to still break through their checks given the right luck. Moody in now banned from gen9 balanced hackmons.

Gorilla Tactics is extremely powerful, giving users the ability to ohko non-resists, or 2hko resists and fc pokemon. Although, just off of base power, Gorilla Tactics can seem overbearing, Gorilla Tactics sets are very one dimensional, and there still seems to be effective ways of playing around them in game, even if on paper, they are difficult to check in the builder. Additionally, the most common Gorilla Tactics users, Zacian-Crowned & Groudon, have other sets besides Gorilla Tactics, so at times their Gorilla Tactics sets are naturally checked in a team. Additionally, the current metagame, which heavily favors Poison Heal sweeping, isn't very conducive for Gorilla Tactics. However, as the metagame continues to evolve Gorilla Tactics may show itself as being broken. I would say the close vote of (3 - 2) to not ban Gorilla Tactics is a good indicator of where council overall currently stands. Gorilla Tactics will remain in the gen9 BH metagame.

Poison Heal has been of much discussion recently. Many people currently see it as matchup fishy, potentially unhealthy, and feel its effects greatly in the builder. BH9 has lost many of the tools we've previously had in gen8BH to counter poison heal, and as a results it's exploded to great prominance. As a result, by unanimous decision, BH council has decided to suspect Poison Heal. You can find the suspect thread here: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bh-suspect-1-poison-heal.3713105/

Last but not least, samples are now updated! Congratulations to all who had their samples chosen, and happy laddering.
(Also, sample submissions still aren't closed, we just wanted to have some updated samples, before the suspect ladder opened up, so if you still have teams you'd like to submit, please do so and we'll take a look at em!)

Tagging Kris to implement.

Thank the gods that Poison heal is getting suspect tested, Its dominating the meta HARD with bulky sets unable to be brute force killed or even with using infestation and salt cure. Although I personally think banning it will be somewhat bad, it seriously is becoming a problem. At the very least i do hope it gets restricted to at least one mon per team, because dealing with multiple mons that can just tank so much damage is insanely difficult to deal with.

TTTech · Dec 29, 2022

With the end of the Poison Heal suspect approaching, I shall point out some quick notes and my opinion.

Poison Heal being Banned:
- The tier becomes more manageable to handle other relevant threats. However, it'll become easier for people to realize the more potentially broken things.
- Things will potentially become status reliant. We may have a lot more options to deal with status compared to last generations, but the ladder will end up being filled with Knock Off + Nuzzle spam, increase usage of Dire Claw, etc. Making teams as repetitive as Gen 8 by everyone using the same structure for team building.
- It'll give opportunities for things like Purifying Salt, Good as Gold, and other abilities to rise in usage.

Poison Heal not Banned:
- The state of the metagame will continue to be the same. With the addition of people focusing on having counterplay in their teams and more destructive power in their builder.
- Status inflicting moves like Nuzzle, Glare, and Dire Claw won't run rampant on every team as easily, being able to help keep rng wins to a minimum and keeping things a bit more competitive team building wise.
- PH provides a variety of different sets and team structures. However, PH by itself is a strong tool already and can be pushed over the edge.

My opinion:
Majority of my games haven't had any PH mons at all and even the games with PH I found it not too hard to deal with it. However, I completely understand the POV from people saying it needs to be banned because they do provide valid arguments. I personally find my games more enjoyable when I don't face PH, however I don't want to have a repeat of Knock Off + Nuzzle spam like last generation. There's other abilities and moves that pose more of an issue. There's downsides and upsides to both arguments on whether we should keep it or not. I feel that having the better team builder or player that can reposition themselves better, being the victor is good. Sometimes you'll run into a good matchup, sometimes you won't, you can't hard counter everything perfectly. You're free to disagree with me + I still haven't come to a decision on my vote yet, I'm honestly 50/50 but I just felt like sharing notes and a lil bit of my opinions.

tzaur · Dec 29, 2022

Team Name: The Infernals
Description: Double FC balance
Paste: https://pokepast.es/c8b6745a1bc2607c
How to use: Straightforward game plan. Just play well. Scout via Ting-Lu and Imposter and start finding some openings with Eternatus or Ghostceus. Cover most of the physical attackers defensively—especially Ghostceus since it interacts so little both defensively and offensively with the type chart. Etern is cool 'cause even if you don't even Tera, it punishes people who send in their Zacian thinking they'll KO it from full-ish with HR. Especially at +2. Zacian-C is a cool midgame breaker. Toxic + taking hazard chip wears down Dondozo pretty easily (Salt Cure also probably works here if you want more immediate chip, but Fireceus becomes more annoying, so I don't love it). Kiiiiiiiiinda have to out-finesse Imposter if it comes in on Don or Ting, but I had little to no problems doing that. Straight-up dogwalks most fat/stall builds.
Weaknesses: GTactics Don if you don't opt for Tera Flying on Eternatus. Fuck that mon. Mostly went Tera Steel when I laddered, and it obliterated most of the team; only reason I still won was cause for some strange reason my opponent closed their eyes and clicked a button missing their game-winning play when my paralysed Ghostceus was the last mon standing and was well within KO range of their last Headlong Rush lmao.
-ate Boomburst anything can be an issue since nothing reliably switches in on it. Especially random Aerilates with Specs or Metronome. Terastallize Poison Ting-Lu immediately to handle Pixiburst Fairyceus, Flutter, and Iron V. If/when PH gets banned, you can easily go Eviolite > T-Orb on Imposter to further ease this MU.
QD Miraidon of any breed. Struggled a lot vs. these. A well-played Tera Dragon Specs can also be a huge nuisance.
PH Fairyceus with Steel/Fire Tera can also be a nuisance. Will hopefully no longer being an issue after the current suspect. If it sticks around, you can opt for Tera Ground on the Don.
Effectiveness: I'm very, very terrible at saving replays, so I unfortunately don't have any. All I really have is 25-0 on first try on PH suspect with minimal effort aside from Onyx. Even though I was just shy of 1500s ELO by the time I finished, I believe the GXE was only surpassed by the top 2 in rank at the time, CHISIRYO and Quantum Tesseract.

Tea Guzzler · Jan 1, 2023

PERSONAL NEW STUFF RANKINGS
(I'm only ranking the relevant things)
Viability List is a good guide but notably lacks depth and explanations (the VR probably will still lack explanations, though I might change that), so here i'll try to give a reason for why this stuff (Mons, Abilities, Moves, Items) is ranked where it is. Ratings will range from 5 star (elite and should be considered on most, if not all teams) to 1 star (not recommended for use). This is personal and I encourage you to use this as a guide rather than as definitive information.

★★★★★ - Elite. Has an extremely strong presence both in the builder and in game, has wide-reaching applications, and is recommended on most teams.
★★★★☆ - Strong. Good presence that fits on many teams and does its job well, flaws often limited and can be fixed with team support.
★★★☆☆ - Decent. Has its purpose and does it well, however this purpose is often narrow and has key issues.
★★☆☆☆ - Weak. Can occasionally do something well, but inconsistent and often requires excessive team support.
★☆☆☆☆ - Unviable. Not recommended for use.

The premier special attacker. Miraidon packs great overall stats, strong typing that gives it 2 absurd STAB moves (Dragon Energy and Rising Voltage), perfect synergy with Hadron Engine, and good moveset flexibility with Specs, Draco Plate, and Poison Heal all being strong. It even gets STAB, terrain-boosted Volt Switch. If you're looking for a powerful special attacker, this is your first and often best option.

Palkia-O is the second best special attacker, boasting great stats, Lustrous Orb, and great STAB options in Dragon Energy, Steam Eruption, and Water Spout. Palkia-O particularly enjoys Miraidon's presence encouraging in Ground-type special walls, like Clodsire and Ting-Lu, meaning against a considerable amount of teams there is no safe wall without burning Tera. Very strong candidate for a special sweeper with Quiver Dance.
:flutter mane:

Flutter Mane's best asset is its set variety, which ensures it fits on many teams and can challenge many checks. Its STAB typing has perfect neutral coverage, and good base stats allow it to both wallbreak with Adaptability and sweep with Normalize. It can occasionally struggle to get going thanks to its Speed tier and -atespeed weakness, however can absolutely cause damage given the chance.
:goodra:

Hisuian Goodra is a strong special wall thanks to its great stat spread and typing. Steel/Dragon lets it safely switch in on virtually every special attacker in the tier and safely pivot out, and great base stats give it deceptively decent physical bulk and hard-hitting Dragon Tails. Dialga-O is basically the same, trading slightly lower special bulk and higher Speed for better Defense, HP, and Special Attack (relevant because Draco can OHKO Miraidon and Palkia-O). Neither's significantly better than the other.

Ursaluna has high Attack and 2 monstrous STAB attacks in Population Bomb and Headlong Rush, on top of Extreme Speed, making it a tremendous offensive threat that can take kills virtually every time it comes in. Mostly held back due to its poor Speed, vulnerability to Rocky Helmet, and one-dimensional nature meaning it often has to predict to get kills.
:thundurus:

Enamorus is the new resident Pixilate user, often used as an alternative to Arceus-Fairy that doesn't take the Arceus slot. It has high damage output and a very useful Ground immunity, however its bulk is not very good and it struggles to deal with common Fairy resists like Arceus-Fire and Clodsire.
:palafin-hero:

Palafin-Hero's great base stats and defensive typing are unfortunately held back by Water's physical mediocrity - the removal of Fishious Rend means it has to rely on Surging Strikes for STAB, which is already a bad start, and physical Water being of little value (especially given Terastallization and Dondozo) means the amount it can pull off is very limited. It can still do some stuff, like Sniper, but this is narrow and matchup dependent.
:koraidon:

Koraidon is interesting, carrying the same stats as Miraidon (but just redistributed) and good Fighting STAB options in Triple Arrows, Thunderous Kick, and HJK. However, Dragon/Fighting isn't really strong enough to make up for its comparatively mediocre Attack, and it hates Zacian-C being so easy to put on teams. I expect this mon's viability to be directly tied to that of Fighting-type as a whole, which currently isn't much.
:dondozo:

Dondozo boasts huge physical bulk and great defensive typing, made even better by the absence of Bolt Strike, which lets it blanket check a massive majority of physical attackers in the tier. However, it often ends up in passive roles and has no offensive presence, so in most instances is just a pivot bot with Haze. High Attack giving lots of Strength Sap healing, even with minimum Attack, isn't ideal either.
:ting-lu:

Similar to the above in that it's just a massive mound of bulk, and also has similar drawbacks in passivity and high Attack on a defensive Pokemon. Noticeably, it's a good Miraidon check but is also a Dark-type that can't really beat one of the 2 common Ghosts in the tier (Flutter Mane). Weaknesses to Fairy and Water are also inconvenient.
:clodsire:

Very similar to Ting-Lu, trading Dark-type and some bulk for a Poison-type, lower Attack, and incredibly low Speed. Poison-type is a good asset thanks to the Fairy resist, but again, the passivity holds it back from being higher and the vulnerability to Palkia-O practically forcing Tera is annoying.

Wo-Chien has pretty good special bulk, and default Grass-type makes it a good Palkia-O and Miraidon check; however, Grass/Dark is generally bad, it has issues with passivity, and its also faster than every main special wall bar Dialga-O (so your U-turns are faster, which isn't good).
:iron valiant:

Valiant is frail and neither of its offensive stats are stellar, however Mixed Pixilate sets can be difficult to switch into without a Clodsire. Generally, though, this dislikes its inability to OHKO most tier staples and faces heavy competition from Enamorus.
:skeledirge:

Skeledirge's Fire-type makes it a pretty good physical wall, also sporting STAB Torch Song to potentially snowball, however Ghost-type doesn't do a whole lot of good and many physical attackers enjoy carrying Ground-type moves. Starter BST also doesn't massively help.

This mon would've been excellent last gen thanks to its STABs and Speed, however Dark/Ice is poor coverage this time around and its base stats are otherwise lacking for BH standards. It's damage output is OK at best and it has severe issues with being hard-walled.
:iron bundle:

Special Water is done infinitely better by Palkia-O and Ice (both physical and special) is of very little value. Its stats are not high enough to make up for these shortcomings like Kyurem-W could do.
:baxcalibur:

Don't be decieved; this is nowhere near as good as Kyurem-B was last gen. Lower Attack, nerfed Glacial Lance, Dragon-type still does nothing (which Glaive Rush doesn't change). There's realistically no reason to use this over any other physical attacker.
:thundurus-therian:

If you take Enamorus, give it a bit more defenses (it's still not walling anything) and remove the ability to outspeed anything, you get Enamorus-Therian. Significant downgrade.
:roaring moon:

Stats are cool but STABs are of very little value and doesn't offer anything over other physical attackers.
:iron treads:

This thing's only niche is Steel/Ground, making it the only viable mon to resist both of Miraidon's STABs, however being outclassed at basically everything else mostly defeats the point.
:annihilape:

Continuing the trend of Ghost/Fighting mons being unviable, this mon doesn't have enough stats to be useful and its best Ghost-type STAB is Poltergeist.
:chi-yu:

Fire/Dark is significantly worse for special attackers than physical - OK stats are held back by its inability to significantly threaten common special walls or even bulky neutrals.

Ceaseless Edge is excellent. Unblockable Spikes is massively strong and allows pretty much every mon to reliably apply hazard pressure, notably including RegenVest mons. Pretty much every non-offensive mon should consider carrying this.
:maushold:

Tidy Up's excellent role compression completely removes Gen 8's glaring issue of needing -atespin on 90% of teams, on top of the Attack boost ensuring opponents can never get comfortable in front of defensive mons. Works best with bulky attackers like Groudon and Arceus-Ground.
:great tusk:

Ground is already great offensively in BH, and Headlong Rush removes by far its biggest issue in that the most powerful move (Precipice Blades) can miss. The stat drops are usually non-factors since most mons using this are Choice-locked anyways, and the removal of Rend also further buffs this as the primary Fire-type disposal move. Great buff to offensive mons.
:lilligant:

Victory Dance turns physical attackers into absolute menaces, both boosting their damage and making them harder to revenge kill. The fact that every physical attacker can use this well makes it even stronger, and like Quiver Dance it's also great for self-Imposter-proofing.
:revavroom:

Magical Torque is the new best Fairy STAB. What separates it from the moves in 4 star (which are also great but have a limited pool of users) is that Magical Torque is STAB for 2 of the best mons in the meta (Zacian-C and Arceus-Fairy), and its infuriating confusion chance incentivizing Covert Cloak on most physical walls can't be ignored.

Stone Axe plays the same as Ceaseless Edge, though is valued lower due to Stealth Rock generally just being lower value.
:decidueye:

Triple Arrows has three secondary effects, and they're all really good, buffed further by having fair bas power and PP. Very close to 5 star, only really held back by only being useful as a STAB (and Fighting generally isn't excellent).
:typhlosion:

Infernal Parade is just a better Hex and the new best move for bulky Ghost-types to use. Only really held back by the fact that there is currently one legal bulky Ghost-type (Arceus-Ghost).
:maushold:

Population Bomb is very high risk but also very high reward. The power is unmatched, with Ursaluna and Zacian-C getting a hideous amount of OHKOes from it, however the inconsistency, limited user pool and weakness to Helmet don't really help.
:espathra:

Lumina Crash seems incredibly broken just looking at the description, and is only limited here by the fact that no Psychic-types are both relevant and want to use it, however the guaranteed -2 alone makes this really strong.

Salt Cure enjoys many meta staples either being Water, Steel, or lacking recovery (so the damage sticks), and also works independently of status so can be stacked with it / used without fear of preventing other status from being applied. The only real limiting factors are the popularity of Covert Cloak and the general reliance on chip damage for most users.
:tinkaton:

160BP and a negligible drawback makes this sound obscene. Unfortunately, Zacian-C is the only mon that wants to use it and even then it's not on every set, plus Steel is kind of just bad offensively.
:armarouge:

Armor Cannon makes up for the Blue Flare we're currently lacking, however special Fire-type moves both lack STAB users and aren't particularly valuable in this meta.
:skeledirge:

Torch Song's role compression of a boosting move and anti-Steel coverage is great, but there's not really many use cases for it currently.
:glimmora:

Mortal Spin lets defensive mons both clear hazards and reliably chip foes, however it does not enjoy how easy it can be spinblocked and how fierce moveslot cometition on defensive mons (particularly RegenVest) is. Covert Cloak being common and stopping the poison is also annoying.

Flower Trick, despite its auto-crit, suffers from Grass being kind of bad offensively and from a very limited pool of potential users. Mostly limited to Sniper shenanigans on stuff like Palafin-H.
:chi-yu:

Ruination does exactly what it says on the tin. Being able to halve something's HP regardless of its ability or defenses seems cool, but it can be a pain to take advantage of well and also needs to be paired with Taunt, so it's pretty inflexible.
:revavroom:

Combat Torque's 30% paralysis leans more towards slower balance mons like Gen 8 Regigigas, however despite this being strong, realistically nothing wants to use it yet.
:weavile:

Dire Claw isn't good or consistent, it's just unreasonably annoying as a way to bypass Sleep Moves Clause and fish for status.
:gholdengo:

Make it Rain is useful solely on Dialga-O, where it faces steep competition from Draco and RevDance, and isn't really that useful anyway.

Jet Punch is fairly strong priority, however is severely held back by the one physical Water mon being one that also wants to boost its Speed. In terms of using it as "the priority on the team", Extreme Speed also just outclasses it.
:floatzel:

Wave Crash doesn't really have a use case. Physical Water is already kind of bad, and Surging Strikes outclasses it in basically every way (even on MGLO sets).
:electrode:

MGLO mostly doesn't exist this gen, and even on those that do you'd never want this as coverage.
:baxcalibur:

Bad type, really bad drawback, and nothing wants to use it.
:pawmot:

Double Shock is usable exclusively on Arceus-Electric, and even then isn't massively effective since you're running Arceus-Electric. Next to no use case for an average-at-best move.
:ceruledge:

Low base power, not boosted by Triage, and has no abusers. Very little reason to run this.
:veluza:

Fillet Away is all the drawbacks of Belly Drum but none of the benefits. Doesn't help with Imposter and doesn't provide enough damage boosting to actually kill stuff well.
:koraidon:

Collision Course is in basically instance worse than every other Fighting move you could be running.
:miraidon:

Same as the above. As a special contact move, Grass Knot is better because it hits Ting-Lu, and on Hadron Engine users, Rising Voltage is just better.

Orichalcum Pulse giving both a 4/3 Attack boost AND summoning the sun to make V-create an absolute nuke make this an unreasonably strong ability for physical attackers. The only reason this isn't seen more is due to Gorilla Tactics, particularly on things that don't want the additional V-create boost like Ursaluna and Groudon. The low popularity of Primordial Sea also helps this ability immensely.

Both of these are sidegrades of each other, since both are basically the joint best option for special attackers. Hadron Engine boosts Volt Switch's damage and enables Rising Voltage as the strongest Electric-type option, whereas Beads of Ruin doesn't have to deal with Electric Terrain timers being annoying and doesn't buff opposing Volt Switch. Both are great, however ranked lower than Orichancum Pulse due to sun being more valuable than electric terrain.

Well-Baked Body is valuable since, unlike Flash Fire and Primordial Sea, it actually benefits most things using it after successfully blocking a Fire move. Due to the ubiquity of V-create, this is instantly a valuable trait, and some stuff like Zacian-C can be incredibly infuriating to kill with this; however, the lack of viable users and the plethora of Fire resists in the meta hold this back a bit.

Good as Gold sounds good in theory, but doesn't really block anything relevant. You still get Hazed, still get paralysed by Nuzzle, and still get phazed by Dragon Tail. The main use of this is to block Glare and Entrainment, but even then, Magic Bounce largely does the same job but better. Good as Gold blocking Trick, Skill Swap, and Transform is worth noting, however.
:chien-pao:

Compared to Beads and Hadron, there is a significantly larger opportunity cost to dropping Orichalcum Pulse for Sword of Ruin. The only real reason to do so is if you're already decided on not running any Fire moves and also don't want any of the other great physical abilities, which is a very narrow situation.

Earth Eater exists, and has a good effect, but it doesn't really have a place on anything. Ground is strong but isn't overbearing to the point that you need an immunity ability for it, and there's the argument that if you wanted a Ground immunity, Levitate is better to dodge Spikes.
:kingambit:

For most of the game, the damage of a Supreme Overlord mon will be less than that of something using any other damage ability. It only becomes stronger when you've basically already lost the game, and even then, the chances of this making a difference over any other damage-boosting ability is next to none.
:bombirdier:

Rock moves are already bad in BH (the one niche Diamond Storm had, hitting Ho-Oh, is gone) and have no good STAB users, so boosting these doesn't really do anything. MGLO Head Smash also existing mostly invalidates this.
:garganacl:

If you wanted to CTeam Infernal Parade, just use Ting-Lu. Ice Scales is always better than this.
:gallade:

Sharpness runs into the issue of being directly outclassed - any move that gets boosted by Sharpness is boosted more by another ability. In addition, of the moves affected by it, only Population Bomb is actually worth using.

Covert Cloak blocking secondary effects from moves like Nuzzle and Magical Torque is huge for helping defensive mons not get lucked past in longer games, and blocking other cheese options like flinches and Spirit Shackle trapping is also nice to have. This is a viable option on basically every Pokemon in the meta and is useful in basically every game.

Ability Shield's only use is to block Entrainment, meaning you can use it as a bandage for poor Normalize counterplay. However, this is all the item does, and the average team likely has a stray Glare or Prankster Entrainment lying around, so its use case is legitemate but limited.

Multi-Hit moves have never really been good in BH. Loaded Dice doesn't change this, since even with every "standard" mutli-hit move being buffed to at least 4 hits, other alternative options are simply more powerful. The one viable multi-hit move this gen, Population Bomb, also doesn't benefit from this item and would want others, like Protectice Pads or Choice Band, more anyway.

Opportunist wasn't included in the list of abilities because the use case for it largely doesn't exist, thus the opportunity cost of using it is far too large - Mirror Herb is no different. There aren't enough nuclear stat-boosting options to warrant its use over any other item, and this is made worse by the fact that it's single use.

Punching Glove, similar to Loaded Dice, has issues with being outclassed - there's only 3 relevant punching moves (Surging Strikes, Wicked Blow, Headlong Rush) and the measly 10% damage boost isn't worth it over other items, even if the moves have contact effects with said items.

Clear Amulet works the exact same as Clear Body - pretty much the only reason to ever use this is that it stops Parting Shot from working. However, it doesn't block Strength Sap's healing (it only blocks the drop) and moves that lower the target's stats are uncommon, so the use case basically doesn't exist.

Inoue · Jan 2, 2023

Noticed that the sample teams lacked a bit of stall so I made one

Team Name: Bad Romance
Description: Semi Stall + Serene Grace Dire Claw Zacian-C
Pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/69c80105965ee09f

How to use: You play this team like how you typically play stall, just with a few adjustments. I usually lead with Zacian-C and start knocking off and causing havoc to weaken their mons, or, in the best case scenario, you get a chance for a potential hax-flinch and/or get a kill. After that, try to setup hazards if you have the chance. Switch to Dondozo to wall physical attacks, and Zamazenta-C to wall special attacks. Additionally, you can outmaneuver your opponent and use Zamazenta-C to get kills by imprison trapping them. If there's a chance, switch back to Zacian-C and use Dire Claw and Knock Off to their fullest potential. Though, as much as possible, try to minimize the risk of your Zacian-C getting copied by Imposter. It's not like you can't deal with your own Zacian-C, but it whittles down your team kind of too much. If you want to minimize that, you can replace Zacian-C's Knock Off with something else so that Covert Cloak works against them. Arceus-Fairy is there for standard prankhaze. Miraidon is your wallbreaker in this team, just in case you can't break through your opponent. Just do this until their team wears down and then you can usually finish them off with either Zacian-C, Zamazenta-C, and Miraidon

Weaknesses: This team usually struggles with Hadron Engine Miraidon, since Ice Scales Zamazenta-C can't hold the power it has, so you have to do more maneuvering between Ting-Lu and Zama-C; or Tera Ground Zama-C to wall Miraidon properly. It also gets caught off-guard with Population Bomb setups (considering that your opponent had maneuevered well against you). It also is weak against Magic Bounce and Good as Gold. The team is also kind of matchup-dependent. But I guess that's the nature of Stall in this generation; or this generation's Balanced Hackmons in general.

Effectiveness: Climbed to 1.5k after a whole week break* with a new account using with this team alone + almost every game was recorded. The ph ban really helped me on my climb. Also helped my main account climb back from 1.3k to 1.5k

Honestly now that I've tried and made stall in this generation I don't see stall being a problem with the way things currently are (as opposed to that person I met in showdown who insisted that stall was and always mega broken). Due to the removal of lots of things in this generation, stall teams can't fit all the situational tools in a single team. Core Enforcer was removed, giving stall a hard time against Poison Heal without a wallbreaker. Spectral Thief was removed, which meant setup sweepers have an easier time breaking stall than last gen, since they don't have to worry about their stats being stolen/reset. There's also items like Covert Cloak, which both buffed and nerfed stall at the same time this gen. The list goes on and on, but the point remains. Stall is kinda balanced this gen? I've yet to see someone running full stall and not semi stall either. That's just it.

Tea Guzzler · Jan 8, 2023

feel like this post is round about due

Gorilla Tactics - is it OK?

Short Answer: GT Zacian-C is fine, but the problems start when people realize they can use the ability on other Pokemon. Then it's broken.

Long Answer: Gorilla Tactics is difficult to prep for due to a number of reasons, most prominent is that GT users often have the raw power to break past even Fur Coat walls. Tera is partly the culprit here, since a lot of GT mons lean on tera to 2HKO checks (especially when attacking with non-STABs, like Zacian-C's Headlong Rush), although tera action is later down the line (there's an argument that GT is possibly balanced with tera gone). GT also has an OK (if somewhat underexplored) pool of potential abusers, which is where GT's other issue comes in - matchup fishing. GT is only really held back by Fur Coat, since these Pokemon are the only ones consistently stopping GT mons from chaining kills, meaning that fishing with GT can net you an automatic KO button at best and a "force the FC in" button at worst. Some GT mons (many have been used, though some are speculative) are shown below:

:ss/zacian-crowned:

Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Band
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
Tera Type: Fairy / Fire / Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Magical Torque
- V-create
- Headlong Rush
- U-turn

By far the most common GT mon, the biggest reasons to use Zacian-C here are its Speed and bulk, greating a resilient nuke that chases out basically the entire tier with the threat of an OHKO. Fairy/Ground is already basically perfect coverage already, so you could honestly swap V-create for Power Whip or Diamond Storm (to hit Dondozo/Groudon and Moltres, respectively), essentially creating a Bolt Beak-but-worse problem (ie. "Is the mon running the busted coverage that kills my mon? If so, click X"). Tera anything is honestly good; Tera Fairy lets Torque nearly OHKO non-FC Arceus, Tera Fire guarantees V-create OHKOes Arceus and invalidates non-Jolly FC Groudon as an answer, and Tera Ground lets you 2HKO FC Arc-Fire. This is the most prominent user, but isn't impossible to prep for with stuff like FC Dondozo, however some of the other stuff doesn't make this so easy...

:ss/groudon:

Groudon @ Choice Band
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
Tera Type: Ground / Normal / Ice
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Glacial Lance
- Extreme Speed
- U-turn

Second on the list, Groudon's niche is having a giant nuke in STAB Headlong Rush, preying on common Zacian-C answers like Arceus-Fire. Groudon trades Speed and defensive typing for better bulk, ease of running Adamant, and an arguably better STAB move. Teams without specifc checks, like Earth Eater or Fur Coat Dondozo (yes, FC Giratina is not mentioned because it doesn't actually work - GLance can 2HKO), will often be forced to defensively Terastallize in order to not instantly lose to this. Kind of broken if you bring support for FC Dozo, I have had very good success with Ruination Zac-C for this despite the set's shortfalls.

:sm/ursaring:

Ursaluna @ Choice Band
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Population Bomb
- Extreme Speed
- U-turn

Plays very similarly to Groudon, trading base stats for Normal STAB, which is kind of disgusting in that Population Bomb can 2HKO even FC Dozo. On top of this, you have STAB, possibly-Tera-boosted ESpeed which easily picks off faster threats like Miraidon and Palkia-O, making this both a setup check and a predict-wrong-and-you-lose-a-mon button. Needs support, namely Knock Off to remove Helmet and Nuzzle so it can solo Fur Coat Arceus, but is immensely stupid otherwise.

:ss/rayquaza:

Rayquaza @ Choice Band
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
Tera Type: Flying / Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Ascent
- Glaive Rush
- V-create
- U-turn

Rayquaza's niche is STAB Glaive Rush and high Special Attack. The former prevents running out of STAB PP and also means Imposter is significantly weaker against you., whereas the latter allows you to bait in and destroy Specially Defensive walls expecting Aerilate sets. Having no way to see that this set is coming (which is enabled specifically by GT, since other options are weaker and usually reveal themselves), on top of needing to play around it and the rest of the team after you've probably already lost a mon to it, absolutely creates gameplay issues.

Overall, probably the easiest thing to be said about Gorilla Tactics is to compare it to Moldy Band Kyu-B from last gen, a similarly destructive attacker that could claim a kill every time it was switched in. Kyu-B was balanced last gen because it was a defensive liability, incredibly difficult to Imposter-proof, and could be denied any use through offensive pressure. These attackers in Gen 9 don't have these drawbacks, which is what pushes them into brokenness, and people will likely continue to innovate with new GT sets that will further invalidate counterplay. I would suggest that GT doesn't remain in the meta for much longer.

Storm Eagle · Jan 9, 2023

Feel like I should post my thoughts here again. This is gonna be a long post. Anyhow, I feel like the only reason Gorilla Tactics isn't banned yet is due to people only using it with Zacian-Crowned on most of ladder, and people only use it with Zacian-Crowned because basically only Fur Coat Dondozo realistically walls it. Fur Coat Arceus, regardless of form, gets intensely pressured by even coverage moves.

252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Zacian-Crowned Headlong Rush vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Arceus-Fire: 208-246 (46.8 - 55.4%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO

Alright, apart from Arceus and Dondozo, you have Groudon.

252 Atk Choice Band Gorilla Tactics Zacian-Crowned Magical Torque vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Groudon: 117-138 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 2.1% chance to 3HKO

I don't have a high opinion of defensive Groudon in SVBH, even with the addition of Tidy Up. I'm not saying Fur Coat Groudon is bad, but defensive Groudon itself feels like it struggles now more than it did last gen on top of just checking less stuff in general. But it can work against GT Zac-C.

However, as Tea said, Gorilla Tactics Groudon is damn near unwallable, the only real downside being it is not very fast compared to a lot of the metagame. But if it even gets the opportunity to click Precipice Blades and it hits, anything it does hit will usually die outright.

Going back to Zacian, you have a set that's so unbelievably powerful with Gorilla Tactics that it constantly wears down dedicated checks to it with ease on a mon that is in virtually every scenario going to gain momentum upon coming in. GT Zacian is checked by FC Dondozo, but it nukes everything else in the meta easily and brings in Miraidon or another breaker of choice to get insane momentum. The problem with GT Zacian is that once Dondozo is gone, it's effectively unstoppable.

One reason I get told frequently as to why GT hasn't been banned yet is that "Gorilla Tactics is inflexible", yeah well it doesn't need to be flexible if it does its job. Maybe you get one unlucky matchup and the opponent gets the advantage once, but unless Zacian is dead or statused it's still going to terrorize the other team and spook out any offense. Zacian is one example of a broken GT user, but so many other examples exist. I'm gonna go on a bit of a tangent here and say something I strongly believe, and anyone who has known me for some time will know I have this belief. That is: Breakers are and have historically the best offensive mons in BH across all skill levels. This isn't new, this has been true since Gen 7, if not earlier. Not only does BH very much reward hit and run tactics due to the bulkier meta compared to other metagames and tiers, being able to force a switch at any given time is extremely valuable for momentum. It can cause games to be a lopsided guessing game with one party obviously in favor if the breaker is sufficiently strong enough. All too often can setup end in a stalemate if you get a bad matchup, whereas breakers aren't inherently punished by a bad matchup due to the aforementioned momentum gain. Gorilla Tactics allows this kind of gameplay on crack.

Also at a point previously, the BH Council entertained the idea of suspecting Zac-C. I do not support this action, and firmly believe Gorilla Tactics is the main issue here (yes, I believe it to be better than Orichalcum Pulse). For this reason Gorilla Tactics should be banned. I also still firmly believe that Miraidon deserves a suspect test for the same reason stated above. It's not as strong as Zacian-Crowned and also shares the issue with being inflexible, but I find that latter argument to be a weak argument to begin with. Specs Miraidon is the premier set and Terastal allows it to break anything that would come in on it.

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Tera Dragon Miraidon Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Ting-Lu: 374-440 (72.7 - 85.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Tera Dragon Miraidon Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra-Hisui: 242-286 (66.4 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Tera Dragon Miraidon Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ice Scales Arceus: 213-251 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

I don't really know who would use Ice Scales Arceus, maybe for a highly specific improof, but on paper it's not bad. I just can't think of a scenario where I'd use it offhand.

252 SpA Choice Specs Hadron Engine Tera Dragon Miraidon Dragon Energy (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tera Ghost Giratina: 426-502 (84.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Defensive Terastal is pretty much worthless here.

That leaves one more possibility and that is Misty Surge. In theory, Misty Surge lets a lot of mons come right in on Miraidon and get momentum off that. In practice, you're dedicating an entire team slot to something that needs to be refreshed regularly leaving you vulnerable to counterplay, something that limits your team choices (can't use Toxic, Mortal Spin, Nuzzle, or Infernal Parade on your team either) and as a result more heavily relies on offensive power to win if it isn't outright hard stall (which would suck because your only wincon would then be hazards in a metagame where removing hazards is easier than ever), and something which frankly is completely unused on ladder. No one uses Misty Surge on ladder. It literally doesn't even have a single mention on the usage stats!

The only reason I even mention this is because I recall having several discussions about Misty Surge with some Smogon users. In my opinion, running Misty Surge for the sake of checking Miraidon just proves Miraidon deserves action.

The only mon that actually checks Miraidon in any capacity is base Chansey/Blissey, which are fucking unmons. Miraidon has a weakness in that any damage it receives weakens its Dragon Energy, except Miraidon also has Strength Sap and given what I said about breakers easily getting momentum, even Specs Strength Sap can work which is something that shouldn't be used in theory given it forces you to switch out, but the benefit of Miraidon's power means even a sub-optimal setup can still be rewarding. I'm not saying Specs Strength Sap is bad, it's the fact that Miraidon can viably use it and benefit which is ridiculous.

One last thing I suppose I should comment on is Terastal since Tea mentioned it.

Tea Guzzler said:
(there's an argument that GT is possibly balanced with tera)

I completely disagree with this. Terastal makes problematic stuff worse. Gorilla Tactics Zacian still wipes the entire meta without Terastal, Terastal just makes it that much worse to check it, putting much more strain on would-be checks like FC Dondozo. I don't think Gorilla Tactics would be that much less effective without Terastal because GT Zac-C still 2HKOes most defensive mons easily. Same with Miraidon. Miraidon itself is one of the best breakers BH has ever had. The fact that only Chansey and Blissey reliably wall it is fucking ridiculous, and Terastal ensures Miraidon isn't getting walled outside of immunities.

Now I won't say much about Terastal as a mechanic. I've found that it doesn't change the course of my games all that often. I'm being honest here. Most games I lost due to it, I probably would have lost regardless of Terastal, meanwhile the same can be said with my wins. The games it has had the most impact in were games where I used pokemon like GT Zac-C, Miraidon, and Palkia-O. In pretty much most instances, breakers are far worse with Terastal while everything else is mostly fine. I wouldn't say this on the forums if I didn't truly believe this thoroughly having gotten enough experience with SVBH so far. It's not even BH which experiences this, look at OU with Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao. Very rarely do other metagames translate to BH in a 1 to 1 manner, but this is an exception. There is a consistency here. I don't think it's even limited to OU, other metagames have experienced it as well.

Do I prefer Terastal in this metagame? I'd say I would, and I like the defensive utility of it. But even despite this, I still believe breakers to be the main issue here. Is Terastal problematic? I don't know right now, and I don't feel like that question should be asked until the metagame settles a bit. I haven't had any games where I felt Terastal was genuinely bullshit. I always felt I lost irregardless of that, and that Terastal complemented the set, rather than the set making Terastal broken. I believe Terastal can be a positive mechanic should the metagame not be strongly based around breakers. Would setup Terastal be a problem then? Well, if PH gets banned, we'll have to see. It very well might. But I'm hesitant to suggest any action right now, especially any half-action like Tera preview because I feel like games would end up being mindgame fests trying to predict what type a mon will be in a given turn, and this would in turn make Terastal much more problematic instead of accomplishing anything.

I think Terastal is fine right now, and if action is necessary then it should be taken at a later date. I also think Gorilla Tactics and Miraidon are problematic even without Terastal.

As for other action. Well, I'm not sure. I openly vouch for Dire Claw to be quickbanned due to being uncompetitive. But beyond that we'll just have to see what pops up following the end of the PH suspect vote. I still think this meta is quite fun, and very little has stood out to me as blatantly broken for the most part besides PH, Dire Claw, Gorilla Tactics, and Miraidon. Thanks for reading, sorry for the long post.

DF-Shock · Jan 9, 2023

Now PH is banned, i want to talk about one thing... Could we quick unban Slaking?

#FREESlaking

Tea Guzzler · Jan 10, 2023

I've come to make an announcement that literally nobody is surprised by: Slaking has been unbanned!

///////////	Tea Guzzler	XxLazzerpenguinxX	quojova	TTTech	Chessking345
Slaking	Unban	Unban	Unban	Unban	Unban

Realistically, the only thing anyone ever used on Slaking was Poison Heal, and now that Poison Heal's gone it has no set to be oppressive with (therefore there's no reason to keep it banned). It has a very similar defensive profile to Dondozo (Same HP and Special Defense, slightly lower Defense), so could potentially see use as a neutral Fur Coat or Prankster user, and Slaking's extra Speed and Attack give it a niche over its closest offensive competition (Ursaluna) through outrunning the whole tier after 1 Victory Dance.

If you looked at the votes, you'd notice a small shift in the voters here - cityscapes has decided to step down from the council, and Chessking345 has been added! cityscapes' immense knowledge on the tier has been useful throughout generations 8 and 9, and so we wish her well. Chessking has been around for a long time, back in generation 7, and his experience and understanding make him a good fit for the council.

Tagging Kris to implement.

LuciShrimp · Jan 10, 2023

Tea Guzzler said:
I've come to make an announcement that literally nobody is surprised by: Slaking has been unbanned!

/////////// Tea Guzzler XxLazzerpenguinxX quojova TTTech Chessking345
Slaking Unban Unban Unban Unban Unban

Realistically, the only thing anyone ever used on Slaking was Poison Heal, and now that Poison Heal's gone it has no set to be oppressive with (therefore there's no reason to keep it banned). It has a very similar defensive profile to Dondozo (Same HP and Special Defense, slightly lower Defense), so could potentially see use as a neutral Fur Coat or Prankster user, and Slaking's extra Speed and Attack give it a niche over its closest offensive competition (Ursaluna) through outrunning the whole tier after 1 Victory Dance.

If you looked at the votes, you'd notice a small shift in the voters here - cityscapes has decided to step down from the council, and Chessking345 has been added! cityscapes' immense knowledge on the tier has been useful throughout generations 8 and 9, and so we wish her well. Chessking has been around for a long time, back in generation 7, and his experience and understanding make him a good fit for the council.

Tagging Kris to implement.

Holy Magikarp, I can't hardly believe it! Also congrats to Chessking for the promotion!

Tea Guzzler · Jan 11, 2023

been theorymonning slaking a bit, here's a some-up of the sets i think have potential

:sm/slaking:

Slaking @ Leftovers / Covert Cloak
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Ghost / Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish / Adamant Nature
- Victory Dance
- Body Slam
- Knock Off / V-create
- Strength Sap

fur coat has similar bulk to dondozo but is notably less passive thanks to 160 atk and an actual speed stat. works surprisingly well as a zacian check since you outspeed it after v-create and, besides gtactics' tera fairy magical torque, it can't 2HKO you without lowering speed (Tera GT Torque is only 3.1% chance to 2HKO Adamant, not counting leftovers). body slam is unironically optimal since you both hit hard and paralyze stuff, knock annoys everything but you can opt for V-create to hit steels since body slam is already scaring out imp anyway. victory makes this a legit damage threat and helps bypass its poor spdef for stuff like miraidon and palkia-o. fur coat ghosts annoy this but it's not trying to sweep anyway, poison fang support might be good. leftovers provides good overall bulk (and lets you go adamant whilst still living 2 tera fairy gt torques from full) but cloak is useful both against imposter (if not using knock) and to block nuzzle/torque effects.

:sm/slaking:

Slaking @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
Tera Type: Ghost / Any that match moves
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Victory Dance / Coil
- Population Bomb
- V-create / Precipice Blades
- Strength Sap?

less sure on the actual moves but MGLO lets you reap the benefits of its attack and speed tier by letting you use pop bomb without the fear of helmet. the main benefit over something like ursaluna is you can afford to run a setup move that isn't shift gear thanks to bulk and speed. VD makes you outspeed everything, including special attackers like mirai and palk that always just force you out, whereas Coil gives stuff perfect accuracy. imposter is a risk since the chance for 10-hit pop bomb to 2HKO is less than 2%, though if it's at full you can expect it to be hardswitching in and sapping back to full. coverage you probably want anti-ghost more than anti-steel (you can mostly beat non-sap zacian), though if you're up against something like sap fc ghostceus, then easiest method is to just cope and get a teammate.

:sm/slaking:

Slaking @ Flame Orb
Ability: Guts
Tera Type: Normal / Fire / Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Victory Dance / Tidy Up / Dragon Dance
- Facade
- V-create
- Strength Sap / Wicked Blow

hard-hitting setup sweeper that also sponges status. facade OHKOing arceus 100% of the time is huge, especially given this turns a lot of the tier into setup fodder. tidy up and ddance are used since you 2HKO imp with +1 facade without a defense boost, tidy up has the additional hazard/sub effect but ddance means you stall saps better. wicked blow lets you occasionally 2HKO FC gira and always 2HKO FC arc-ghost, although sap's extra longevity is highly valuable. multi-attack isn't in gen 9 so tough claws isn't a higher-damage option for normal.

Storm Eagle · Jan 16, 2023

Hello everyone. This is my first time having done this, but seeing as the survey has shown Terastal to be in a fine place right now, I believe it will be here for at least a few months. I plan on writing an informative guide here on Terastal and how to properly play with it for players new to Balanced Hackmons.

Terastal in Balanced Hackmons

Everyone knows the basic functions of it, but there's some stuff to keep in mind.

Terastal grants type specific properties. This includes...
- Ghost-types are immune to trapping, which does not currently matter much in the current meta, but may end up being useful should Zygarde or Dhelmise return in DLC. Also, Grass-types are immune to Powder-type moves and Leech Seed. Not really relevant as Spore is banned and Leech Seed is uncommon.
- Hazards will now do damage depending on your type. Flying-type Terastal grants an immunity to Spikes. Stealth Rock is rather unused, but it is still worth mentioning.
- Fire-, Electric-, Poison- and Steel-, and Ice-type Terastal users are immune to Burn, Paralyze, (Bad) Poison, and Freeze respectively.
- Conversely, any immunities the Pokemon naturally had are lost if they Terastal into a different type. Moltres now takes Spikes damage without Flying-type and is vulnerable to burns without Fire-type.
Terastal cannot have its type changed once executed.
- This means Fire-type Terastal users can use Burn Up repeatedly, and Electric-type Terastal users can use Double Shock repeatedly.
- Other means of changing type will fail when used on a Terastallized Pokemon.
Imposter does not copy Terastal and can independently Terastal using its pre-defined type in the teambuilder.
- Imposter will no longer copy enemy type upon transforming, instead being a static type the remainder of the battle should it Terastallize.

Building Teams with Terastal

So, you're building a team and you're unfamiliar with BH, and worse, unfamiliar with Terastal. The first thing you should always do is build the set then focus on Terastal after. Then we raise the question of whether your set is defensive, offensive, or Imposter. If you're unsure, the ability is what determines the focus of a set followed by the Pokemon itself. Some Pokemon like Fur Coat Tidy Up Groudon can blur the lines, and as such both a defensive and offensive Tera Type works depending on your team needs.

Defensive Pokemon are generally your checks to offense like Miraidon and Zacian-Crowned. They can also be Pokemon dedicated to checking setup, such as a Prankster. For defensive Pokemon...

Consider what checks it. Making Ting-Lu a Poison-type can help in an emergency situation should it need to get a move off against a Zacian-Crowned. But for the most part, Terastallizing in this manner should be avoided if possible and is a last resort. Shuffling the weaknesses is nonetheless a valid reason to pick a given Tera Type.
As mentioned above, Terastal can give immunities. However, it is strongly advised that you properly improof your sets, as Terastal should not be used in place of imposter-proofing. Additionally, Pokemon should never be required to Terastal in a given match; Terastal is a one-time utility mechanic and should be used wisely.
Terastal can give status immunities depending on the type, and Ground Terastal can block Nuzzle, but this is not advised as it is a low value Terastal use.
Offensive walls like Groudon can opt to run STAB instead to nail some KOs should the situation call for it. However, this is more the exception than the norm, you are typically going to want to run a defensive Tera Type should you run a defensive ability.

Weakness Shifting

Arceus-Fire @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Water / Flying / Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Lava Plume
- Heal Bell
- Shore Up
- U-turn

Terastal here is best used to circumvent a poor matchup with a physical breaker or setup sweeper, as Fireceus is the main check for those. Fire Arceus can run Water Tera Type for an overall better typing that lacks the notable Headlong Rush weakness, but it comes at the cost of a weakness to Power Whip/Flower Trick and no longer resisting Fairy. Flying is one more alternative as it is no longer weak to Grass, is immune to Ground, but no longer resists Fire-type moves. As Glacial Lance is not common this generation, Flying Tera Type is in no major danger of Ice-type attacks. Although it is not optimal, Fairy-type can be used if you can get past the major Gigaton Hammer pain point.

Arceus is one example of a Pokemon whose main Terastal benefit is from shifting its weaknesses in order to continue doing its job as planned.

Emergency Check

Ting-Lu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
Tera Type: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Rapid Spin
- U-turn
- Ceaseless Edge
- Salt Cure

On the flip side, Ting-Lu is different from Arceus in that most of the merit of using it is in its Ground typing. Which means defensive Terastal is typically going to be a net negative. It is too weak to score any significant damage, only really being capable of harassing some spinblockers with its Dark STAB. If in this case you do not have any major use for Terastal, the best choice would be to set the Tera Type to make it resist one common check, in this case Zacian-Crowned or Flutter Mane.

Ting-Lu has no benefit from Terastal offensively, and shifting its weakness is less useful in this case outside of emergencies. This is a very low value Terastal because it does not accomplish much beyond walling a single Pokemon. Therefore this type of Terastal should be a last resort, and as a result the type is not that important.

Anti-Passivity

Groudon @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Fur Coat
Tera Type: Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tidy Up
- Precipice Blades
- Knock Off
- Strength Sap

Zacian-Crowned @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Well-Baked Body
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Headlong Rush
- Magical Torque
- Toxic
- Strength Sap

Fur Coat Groudon and defensive Zacian are mons which have the offenses to deal damage unlike a Pokemon like Ting-Lu, which would justify a STAB Terastal as an offensive Pokemon would use. However, since these are still defensive sets at heart, some restraint should be shown when using them in battle. Anything weaker than Arceus offensively (base 120) should not have a STAB Tera Type when a defensive set is used.

We have learned three things here. For Pokemon like Arceus who aren't terribly reliant on their typing, Terastal is a decent option to shift weaknesses should the situation call for it. For Pokemon like Ting-Lu and Goodra-Hisui whose offenses are poor but their types are important for their role, a Tera Type that walls a problematic check should be used, but again Terastallizing mons like these is not recommended outside of emergencies. Pokemon who have offensive utility like Tidy Up, either a Tera Type in the same manner as Arceus can be used, or a STAB Tera Type can be used instead to boost the power of attacks to avoid passivity.

It is often difficult to decide where the line is drawn on Weakness Shifting and Emergency Checking, but if the Pokemon you're using is heavily reliant on its typing in order to function at a basic level, then you should treat the set as the latter.

What about Imposter??
As it was noted above, Imposter does not copy your Tera Type, therefore Imposter should not be seriously considered in regards to defensive sets. Most defensive sets are not particularly hard to imposter-proof, and neither you nor Imposter gains much from Terastal should a matchup happen. However, your anti-passivity sets should have a dedicated imposter-proof rather than rely on Terastal. Dedicated offensive sets can afford to use Terastal for the purpose of imposter-proofing, however the versatility of defensive sets require a dedicated improof to be on hand. Imposter gains very little from Terastallizing on a defensive set and neither do you. As such, Tera Types should be chosen without regard to Imposter.

As for offensive Pokemon, it's obvious that these are your wincons and apply direct pressure to your opponent through either setting up or breaking. Terastal has a bigger immediate impact with offensive Pokemon. For offensive Pokemon...

STAB is usually, but not always best. Terastal STAB is the equivalent of adding an Adaptability boost, or 1.33x damage, to your STAB attacks. Leaving your Tera Type at default or changing it to your second type (if available) is the best way to utilize offensive Terastal.
- It is important to note that for dual-typed Pokemon, Terastallizing will change your type to a single type, frequently removing common weaknesses on Pokemon like Zacian-Crowned and Rayquaza.
Coverage is the second best means of picking a Tera Type. Changing your Tera Type to a coverage move can let you cover more bases while potentially increasing your survivability.
A less seen option of picking a Tera Type is to either imposter-proof or take more hits while setting up. A Tera Type that doesn't match your attacking moves is not inherently bad.

STAB Reinforcement

Flutter Mane @ Choice Specs
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Ghost / Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Astral Barrage
- Fleur Cannon / Moonblast
- Volt Switch
- Infernal Parade

Flutter Mane is a Pokemon who greatly benefits from STAB Terastal as both of its STABs will put significantly more pressure on the team. It should be clearly noted that Terastallization should not happen unless these Pokemon have momentum. Forcing a switch makes these sets significantly scarier. Since this Terastal is purely offensive, there are few defensive benefits aside from the aforementioned loss of one of your types

However, it should also be noted that STAB Terastal is very, very flexible. Both breakers and setup can utilize it, although the former sees a more immediate benefit in most games. Adding an effective "Adaptability" to one of your mons is a no-brainer, but it also rewards breaking more as that becomes far more difficult to wall.

Coverage Reinforcement

Enamorus (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pixilate
Tera Type: Fire / Ground
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
- Boomburst
- Rapid Spin
- V-create / Headlong Rush
- Strength Sap

Zacian-Crowned @ Choice Band
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Magical Torque
- Solar Blade
- U-turn

Palafin-Hero @ Covert Cloak
Ability: Sniper
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wicked Blow
- Surging Strikes
- Strength Sap
- Toxic

The Enamorus set and Orichalcum Pulse Zacian-C are fairly similar, both having V-create as coverage with Fire-type Terastal, but one of the interesting things is that Terastal gives a favorable matchup towards Imposter since Fire resists itself as well as Fairy. In my Palafin-H example, it doesn't need to be that complex as simply having a stronger coverage move can justify the use of a coverage Terastal. The Enamorus set also shows a different coverage move, which is interesting as Headlong Rush trades a better defensive Tera Type for a better coverage move which can eliminate common special walls and even serve as a bait for Miraidon one-on-ones.

Having a coverage Terastal is very useful and even more flexible than STAB Terastal in a number of cases. It can be used in the case of Enamorus and Zacian-Crowned where coverage gives you a notable defensive advantage while making your coverage significantly more powerful, or it can be used in the case of Palafin-Hero where STAB Terastal wouldn't grant many more beneficial matchups over a coverage Terastal. In any other case it is highly variable and you can choose whatever coverage suits your needs.

Weakness Shifting

Miraidon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Hadron Engine
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dragon Energy
- Rising Voltage
- Grass Knot
- Strength Sap

Palkia-Origin @ Lustrous Globe
Ability: Beads of Ruin
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Steam Eruption
- Dragon Energy
- Strength Sap

The most defensive play, but absolutely one that bolsters your offense. All examples shown are offensive Dragon-types who can Terastal into Fairy-type to improve their matchups. Miraidon can Terastal on an Imposter to get a nuke off on it. Remember, Imposter does not copy Tera Type, so the opponent won't know what Tera Type you have. Palkia-Origin is another example as well.

Offensive Dragons benefit the most, but bulkier Dragons like Dialga-Origin and Eternatus, Slaking with Tera Ghost, some offensive Arceus sets, and most importantly, Imposter can build around this and benefit. Those are merely examples as the meta hasn't quite developed enough to showcase more wacky examples, but regardless of the lack of examples, this is still something to consider when building on occasion. You may not directly benefit offensively, but being able to survive longer, especially with bulky offense like Eternatus and Arceus is something to always keep in mind. In niche cases, it can even eclipse a Tera Type that is STAB or coverage.

As for Imposter... a basic rundown of this is fairly simple. What do you expect to need Imposter the most for? Zacian-Crowned has a disfavorable matchup against fat neutral types like Water or Flying. Groudon dislikes anything that resists its STAB such as Grass (beware V-create though) or Flying, but you can also run a neutral bulky type like Water here too. You could also ask yourself what your team has the worst matchup against and come to a conclusion based on this, however be aware of imposter-proofing as usual. Imposter has no good single Tera Type, but you can generally not go wrong with a fat neutral type like Water, Flying, or Fire until you come to a more specialized decision with your team. Keeping the fat neutral type is also a valid option as well as it can generally improve matchups vs offense.

How to Use Terastal

As always, Terastal is a mechanic that affords great opportunities in battle due to its customization. To say it can be used in any one way is false, and it can be used at all stages of battle to varying degrees of success. With that said, I'll give my recommendations on how to make best use of your Terastallization in battle.
Avoid!

NEVER build sets with the sole purpose of Terastal. Doing this severely limits yourself in battle and results in your team being inflexible regarding Terastal. One well known example is Tera Normal Calyrex-Ice with only Normal moves. Should you add a set like this to your team, you must Terastal Calyrex, or Calyrex becomes worthless in battle, and as a result you can no longer viably utilize Terastal on the rest of your team.
Don't Terastal too early. Scout a bit unless things quickly go south. It could leave you wishing you had gone for a different Terastal later on.
If you consistently force out a specific Pokemon, it's probably best you don't Terastal against it unless you intend to eliminate the switch-in.
Don't be predictable, avoid relying off a single Pokemon for your Terastal. Imposter is not and never will be a catch-all approach to checking things, it is merely a tool to approach offense with and Terastal should not be dedicated to it either.

Not Recommended...

Don't save Terastal just for Imposter in games. If you see a practical advantage to using it in a given turn, especially on one of your wincons, then take the initiative and attack!
Don't be hasty in battle, try to dish out a few hits before Terastallizing offensively. Decide which wincon you want to Terastal first if the game is relatively stable.
Don't stall the game out too long either, as you don't want your opponent possibly Terastallizing first and gaining momentum.
Terastallizing is generally a bad idea when against setup sweepers. The best play is usually to switch to a mon that can beat said setup sweeper unless you genuinely think you can break it.

Preferred!

Always scout out your opponents' sets. Especially the offensive ones. Having an emergency defensive Terastal on hand may just win you the game.
Avoid emergency defensive Terastal at all costs, as it is the single lowest reward Terastal there is.
To avoid emergency Terastal, try to play defensively early on if using a balance team; scout the offensive sets as mentioned.
If you have trouble breaking a set, consider Terastallizing if you cannot find any other way to break said Pokemon.

As one final reminder, there is no one best way to use Terastal. Just avoid the shittier types like Bug or Steel and you will have a decent time provided you follow the advice I gave above. I hope this helps out some newer players and gives them a better idea on how to approach Terastal in a meta where building is much more complex relative to other metagames. Thanks for reading, have a fun time out there, everyone!

ToiriX · Jan 16, 2023

Figured with PH being banned I'd take a shot at posting a team (shoutout u/inoue for the zacc set)

Team Name: A Gambler's Heaven
Description: Balance - Mbounce Groudon + Serene Grace Zacc
Pokepaste: A Gambler's Heaven (pokepast.es)
How to use: I almost always lead zac-c except in games where I suspect/know that my opponents leading hazards, in which case groudon is a good read. Knock off and status spreading with zacian works amazingly in tandem with ghostceus because of how little can hit it with super effective moves, and mbounce groudon is an amazing lategame sweeper because of how common strength sap is - I chose jungle healing because imposter zacian can be a problem if they knock off (you could also replace it with slack off/strength sap/whatever if needed). You're going to usually want to save tera for groudon but defensive tera is also an option because of how bad this team fares defensively against gtactics groudon

Zacc is self explanatory, just click knock off then funny flinch/status button.
RegenVest Iron Hands is just an idea I like a lot and I wanted to add it to a team, and it actually works really well. Circle throw actually does decent damage against non-fur coat mons and tera-flying shuts down opposing groudons. Fur Coat Eternatus just won't die if you play it correctly and provides pressure that isn't really elsewhere on the team - I chose tera dark because I was facing a ton of setup + stored power/trip, but you can make it flying or whatever else
.
Weaknesses: Like I mentioned with eternatus, this team lacking a prankster pokemon means that setup teams that play right can be hard to deal with. If needed you could switch chansey for Ting-Lu/Dondozo but I found it doesn't provide enough pressure to actually create momentum. Another thing is hyper offense (primarily gtactics) can steamroll you mid-game if you don't keep eternatus/ghostceus at high health, but zacc and eternatus are very speedy and strength sap is great.

Effectiveness: Got to ~1500 elo multiple times with this team

~~im seeing a glaring ground weakness here~~

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