Pokémon Barbaracle

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Yeah, that's what I've been using. And IMO, crits didn't get nerfed, they got balanced. They may do less damage, but its way easier to get them. This set relies on a 50% crit rate, but doesn't need to waste a turn boosting to get that. Just from the usage I've done, sniper sets (while best done by kingdra) are great wall breakers and thanks to rock polish and pretty decent bulk, barbaracle can take it a step further and sweep. I will take your advice about the shadow claw though, don't know what I was thinking with the night slash.
I agree about critical hits, but you can't really compare kingdra with barbaracle for one reason: barbaracle has twice as many weaknesses as kingdra, with one being a 4x weakness. Night slash is good coverage, but shadow claw is better and often overlooked for some reason. My personal set, involving shell smash, sports razor shell, shadow claw, and either power up punch or brick break. Power up punch can be great for boosting your attack while dealing some damage for nice wall breaking. Since ghost-fighting is perfect coverage, you will be hard to stop at +2 or higher unless your opponent has a choice banded mach puncher (take them out before Barbie comes out to play)
 
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I don't think thread is to discuss if Barbaracle or its pre-evo is ugly or not, so stop shitting it up. Barbaracle is a really great Pokemon, and it has good bulk so setting up Shell Smash isn't hard. It is also faster than other Shell Smashers, making it much harder to revenge kill. Its only problem is the low accuracy of its moves, which can usually lead to its death.
This is probably a bad idea, but any thoughts on Hone Claws to increase accuracy? It's probably not a good idea as SS boosts its Speed and gives it sweeping potential, but possibly as a wallbreaker it could work?

EDIT: On an unrelated note, this'll be good if we get G6 STABMons-getting Waterfall is the main point I'm thinking of.
 
Hone claws would be nice if it helped your speed, but barbaracle is really slow without rock polish or shell smash. It wouldn't stand a chance against anything with a grass move. You can, however, make him extremely bulky if you give him bulk up and put him in the sand with lefties (252 ev's in def and spdef). Just a thought
 
I tested this guy ingame and I find it terribly underwhelming.

Even after a shell smash he doesn't do enough damage.
And I run it fully invested in speed and atk (jolly with focus sash).
Maybe I should run EQ instead of night slash.


ToughClaws+Moves to abuse it with *cough* Megadactyl *cough*+Shellsmash+106Attack.......and you find him underwhelming?
 
ToughClaws+Moves to abuse it with *cough* Megadactyl *cough*+Shellsmash+106Attack.......and you find him underwhelming?
I really like that image... good one, I needed a laugh.

In all seriousness, the chief problem is that Barbaracle is weak to priority. It's a common issue! Bullet and Mach Punch will mess him up quite soundly with the lowered defense from a Shell Smash, because he doesn't have Cloyster's sickeningly high base Defense to soak stray hits after Smashing.

That's completely aside from what'll happen if he runs into the rare Vacuum Wave. "Chunky salsa" comes to mind, especially since the recent MKhan ban is likely to leave us with Mega Lucario running around more commonly, which CAN run a really heavy Special set and mounts Vacuum Wave.

(He fares a little better if you White Herb the Smash, but that comes with its own problems, of course.)
 
I really like that image... good one, I needed a laugh.

In all seriousness, the chief problem is that Barbaracle is weak to priority. It's a common issue! Bullet and Mach Punch will mess him up quite soundly with the lowered defense from a Shell Smash, because he doesn't have Cloyster's sickeningly high base Defense to soak stray hits after Smashing.

That's completely aside from what'll happen if he runs into the rare Vacuum Wave. "Chunky salsa" comes to mind, especially since the recent MKhan ban is likely to leave us with Mega Lucario running around more commonly, which CAN run a really heavy Special set and mounts Vacuum Wave.

(He fares a little better if you White Herb the Smash, but that comes with its own problems, of course.)
Ew Special Megaluke is disgusting good and your points are very true. In short, priority itself is really Bar's only issue since a lot are SE on him (AquaJet too right?) however, if used as a mid-late game sweeper he fairs incredibly well after SS.
 
Ew Special Megaluke is disgusting good and your points are very true. In short, priority itself is really Bar's only issue since a lot are SE on him (AquaJet too right?) however, if used as a mid-late game sweeper he fairs incredibly well after SS.
Aqua Jet is neutral.

That is not going to save him when the Aqua Jet is coming from Azumarill.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 422-498 (147.5 - 174.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. -2 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 211-250 (73.7 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. -2 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 506-596 (176.9 - 208.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. -2 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 286-337 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. -2 4 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 460-544 (160.8 - 190.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. -2 4 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 300-354 (104.8 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(the most interesting bit is that Lucario can pull a 1HKO with Vacuum Wave with no boosts, Specs, or Mega Evolution.)
 
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 422-498 (147.5 - 174.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. -2 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 211-250 (73.7 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. -2 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 506-596 (176.9 - 208.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. -2 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 286-337 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. -2 4 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 460-544 (160.8 - 190.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. -2 4 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 300-354 (104.8 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(the most interesting bit is that Lucario can pull a 1HKO with Vacuum Wave with no boosts, Specs, or Mega Evolution.)
Ouch...like I said weakness to most priority moves is really Clusterbarnacles only problem and it unfortunately is a big one considering the metagame (doesnt include status problems but thats self evident and less an issue than priority)
 

Enguarde

I only play ADV UU
is a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Remember Shell Smash only lowers your defences by one stage rather than 2, and its really hard to set up more than once. Before you dismiss you using any item other than White Herb.
 
Aqua Jet is neutral.

That is not going to save him when the Aqua Jet is coming from Azumarill.

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Superpower vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 422-498 (147.5 - 174.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. -2 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 211-250 (73.7 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. -2 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 506-596 (176.9 - 208.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. -2 4 HP / 0 Def Barbaracle: 286-337 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. -2 4 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 460-544 (160.8 - 190.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. -2 4 HP / 0 SpD Barbaracle: 300-354 (104.8 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

(the most interesting bit is that Lucario can pull a 1HKO with Vacuum Wave with no boosts, Specs, or Mega Evolution.)
Of course you're gonna get ohko'd/2hko'd by priority moves at -2. With a white herb or lefties/shell bell, you run either neutral defenses or at -1, where you stand the chance of surviving an additional hit and ohko. Also, this guy will probably be UU at best, so he normally won't have to deal with choice band scizor or Lucario
 
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>best shell smasher in the game
>UU
I say UU for a few reasons, starting with why cloyster can survive in OU where barbaracle will struggle. Cloyster has:

1. higher speed

2. the defense to take multiple supereffective physical hits

3. a fantastic ability that makes it an effective sub-breaker with high base power

4. 0 contact moves that trigger flame body, static, or poison point

5. Fewer weaknesses, none of which are 4x
 
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It's not the best shell smasher. Its attacks are very unreliable compared to Cloyster's and its base speed falls just short from outspeeding important targets such as Scarf Terrakion.
I say UU for a few reasons, starting with why cloyster can survive in OU where barbaracle will struggle. Cloyster has:

1. higher speed

2. the defense to take multiple supereffective physical hits

3. a fantastic ability that makes it an effective sub-breaker with high base power

4. 0 contact moves that trigger flame body, static, or poison point

5. Fewer weaknesses, none of which are 4x
Cloyster has higher defense and abusable Skill Link moves.....thats...about....it.

Besides no one is telling you to run all low accuracy moves. It has a good enough movepool that 2 Tough Claws boosted moves and coverage are good enough. And if you feel ambitious just run a ScopeLens/Sniper set with StoneEdge and Crosschop
 
Cloyster has higher defense and abusable Skill Link moves.....thats...about....it.

Besides no one is telling you to run all low accuracy moves. It has a good enough movepool that 2 Tough Claws boosted moves and coverage are good enough. And if you feel ambitious just run a ScopeLens/Sniper set with StoneEdge and Crosschop
A sniper set with chop and edge would be easily pp stalled and unlikely to be a wall-breaker without attack boosts from shell smash/bulk up/hone claws. That said, shell smash>bulk up>hone claws in terms of sweeping potential. Sniper sets are rather gimmicky since they rely on luck and will only boost your critical hit damage from 150% to 200%. With a single shell smash, you double your attack and speed, making your regular hits just as powerful or even more powerful than a sniper critical hit without boosts. Your critical hits after a smash will be devastating against all but the strongest physical walls, who will rarely be able to do much back and allow you to further amp up your power ( I'm thinking a bulk up set would work very well with defense, special defense, and/or attack investment to make barbaracle a very sturdy set up sweeper after his grass checks like tangrowth are taken out)
 
A sniper set with chop and edge would be easily pp stalled and unlikely to be a wall-breaker without attack boosts from shell smash/bulk up/hone claws. That said, shell smash>bulk up>hone claws in terms of sweeping potential. Sniper sets are rather gimmicky since they rely on luck and will only boost your critical hit damage from 150% to 200%. With a single shell smash, you double your attack and speed, making your regular hits just as powerful or even more powerful than a sniper critical hit without boosts. Your critical hits after a smash will be devastating against all but the strongest physical walls, who will rarely be able to do much back and allow you to further amp up your power ( I'm thinking a bulk up set would work very well with defense, special defense, and/or attack investment to make barbaracle a very sturdy set up sweeper after his grass checks like tangrowth are taken out)
On i fully agree i was just being theoretical. You'd be a trading a 95% sure hit set with better boost for a set based more on luck with MUCH worse negatives than positives being PP, Accuracy, boosts, and even chance.

But the right person can get it to work...you know what given that Barbaracle does have all the tools needed for that set a really ambitious person will do it lol
 
Barbaracle - White Herb/Lum Berry
Tough Claws
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
Adamant Nature
-Shell Smash
-Razor Shell
-Return/Night Slash
-Brick Break/Poison Jab
 
Yoooo-hoooo, Barbaracle has 3 Abilities: Tough Claws (useful), Pickpocket (neh).. And SNIPER, holy god!

Sniperacle

Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sniper
Item: Scope Lens
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 ATK/ 252 SPE
MOVESET:

-Stone Edge
-Cross Chop
-Razor Shell
-Shell Smash

Do you need explanations?
Sniper (CHs become 2x) + Scope Lens (CHs are at +1) + SEdge & CChop (CHs at +1) = Critical Hits nearly every attack!
 
Dude, PP stall. NU.
Yoooo-hoooo, Barbaracle has 3 Abilities: Tough Claws (useful), Pickpocket (neh).. And SNIPER, holy god!

Sniperacle

Nature: Jolly
Ability: Sniper
Item: Scope Lens
EVs: 4 HP/ 252 ATK/ 252 SPE
MOVESET:

-Stone Edge
-Cross Chop
-Razor Shell
-Shell Smash

Do you need explanations?
Sniper (CHs become 2x) + Scope Lens (CHs are at +1) + SEdge & CChop (CHs at +1) = Critical Hits nearly every attack![/quote
Dude, PP stall.
 
PP Stall is your answer? Against crits? Really? You guys make PP stall sound much easier then it really is.

I hope you guys realize it's not the low PP that makes it struggle, it's the unreliability, low speed, and mediocre defensive ability. If, in theory, you find a situation in which you need to land a critical hit, you only have a 50% chance to do so, as opposed to the life orb or choice band which can deal out damage consistently. After that, it's bulk isn't necessarily amazing. It's defense is good, but it's sp.def and HP will really hold it back, so a tanking role is out the question. Without the speed to back it up, you can't use it to pull off a sweeping or revenge killing role either.

Shell Smash is reliable because either you're at +2/+2/+2 or not. There is no 50% chance of doing damage. At worst, it's an 80% chance when using Stone Edge, and people still complain about the reliability of that.
 
I just wanted to restate what I've said before: unless you run EQ, aerial ace, shadow claw, or return, you will get walled by toxicroak. Night slash is inferior coverage compared to shadow claw because it is resisted by fighting types that can get a justified attack boost or simply wall you and ohko with drain punch. Shadow claw also hits extra hard vs pokemon such as medicham and gallade
 
Okay lets just end the Sniper Barbaracle talk because we know the pro & cons of it. It really is a big risk, big reward set that only really ambitious people would use cause Hone Claws is also inferior to Shell Smash. There done.

Back to the Tough Claws set your best choice is running this:
Tough Class w/ Whiteherb
Adamant/Jolly (preference) 252att 252speed 4spdef
-ShellSmash
-RazorShell
-Earthquake
-AerialAce/Shadowball/PoisonJab

The first three moves should be on every ToughClaws set seriously...unless Waterfall is granted to this Barbarian Barnacle.

Aerial Ace- for all the use it gets it shouldve got a boost in power. AA lets you hit your 4x weakness Grass and 2x Fighting which are clear dangers for BB

PoisonJab- this will hit your 4x weakness of Grass for supereffective though only neutral on Fighting. However, this lets you hit a possible incoming Azumarill before it can nail an AquaJet on you.

Shadow Claw- this is pretty much your neutral hit on everything minus Normal and Dark (in my opinion inferior to the previous two)
 
Tough Class w/ Whiteherb
Adamant/Jolly (preference) 252att 252speed 4spdef
-ShellSmash
-RazorShell
-Earthquake
-AerialAce/Shadowball/PoisonJab
Lol the opponent has Calculus ability. Sorry just had to say that.
Top three moves are definitely staples. Stone Edge and Cross chop should get a mention. SE is his strongest move option and Cross chop hits normals darks and balloon steels hard.
I just wanted to restate what I've said before: unless you run EQ, aerial ace, shadow claw, or return, you will get walled by toxicroak. Night slash is inferior coverage compared to shadow claw because it is resisted by fighting types that can get a justified attack boost or simply wall you and ohko with drain punch. Shadow claw also hits extra hard vs pokemon such as medicham and gallade
Shadow claw vs. Night Slash is only a question of the rest of your set and what you want to hit. Shadow claw has all the benefits that you mentioned, although Toxicroak will be lesser popular with the rain nerf. Night Slash hits Normal types switching in, which isn't that big a deal. It is also slightly more powerful with a higher crit chance to hit ghost and psychic types a bit harder. Overall, Shadow Claw is the better option yes.
 
Another interesting set I've thought about using:

Role: Bulk-up sweeper
Barbaracle
Tough claws/Sniper
Adamant or Careful
Held item: Leftovers
EV's: 252hp, 8def, 248spdef or 248hp, 8atk, 252spdef

Bulk up - Boost your attack and defense
Razor Shell - STAB, chance to lower your opponent's defense
Brick Break/Cross Chop - coverage, choose between screen-breaking and reliable accuracy or higher base power, a higher crit chance, and lower accuracy
Stone Edge - STAB, higher crit chance

Sniper is an option here because you have significant bulk, especially with sand support and a bulk up behind your belt, and you should be dealing enough hits for it to be viable. Tough Claws is only suggested if you run more contact moves. After a bulk up, barbaracle will have the following defenses without sand support: Adamant: 405atk, 402def, 270spdef. Careful: 372atk, 399def, 298spdef. With sand, your spdef becomes 405 or 447 respectively.
The pokemon that will give this set the most trouble will be Tangrowth and Toxicroak. That said, a suitable counter for both would be a good idea, although these "counters" to barbaracle fare poorly in the sand. A cleric/clerics with heal bell and/or wish passing capability are much appreciated. The last thing that would probably help is paralysis/burn support and taunt support (Prankster Whimsicott is my preferred teammate for Stun spore, taunt, and tailwind, although Klefki and Sableye make good teammates as well with their respective status moves). You could also run Earthquake instead of a fighting move and retain your excellent coverage while eliminating Toxicroak. Should you choose to do this, Gale Wings Talonflame is an excellent teammate to check Breloom, Chesnaught, and Virizion. Sap-sippers such as Sawsbuck make great allies to switch in on an expected grass move. Sawsbuck is particularly good for this, as it can choose to hit back extremely hard with +1 megahorn or baton pass his boost away to a teammate. That said, screen support is also extremely helpful to barbaracle to help him set up. On top of sand, he will be very hard to stop with light screen up. These are all options, of course.

You could also run substitute, bulk up, brick break, and shadow claw for perfect coverage, protection from status/taunt/flinch, and the ability to build your defense up to phenomenal levels. This setup would check Jellicent and other stallers, with the one major exception being tangrowth because of the 4x weakness to Giga Drain, but as mentioned above, a special attacker that can outrun tangrowth (not difficult if he runs as a physical wall) can come in for the OHKO. You could also try to PP stall away the plant's Giga drains with substitute, as you naturally outrun it, potentially rendering it a liability on your opponent's team and vulnerable to being easily killed by a strong special attacker. As mentioned above, sap sipper is another option to keep your opponent from throwing grass moves out so hastily or take advantage of it.
 
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aVocado

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Always Tough Claws over Sniper. Always.

Unless you go for Scope Lens and Stone Edge with Sniper, which is gimmicky, but works I guess. Still, a reliable psuedo Life Orb boost without the drawbacks is pretty awesome.
 
tough claws is arguably better if you have more than one contact move, but if you run a set with only one or even 0 contact moves, sniper may be the better option. With multiple bulk ups, you're looking at a long, slow sweep where you have multiple opportunities for a sniper boost. Either ability works.
 
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