• Follow our Instagram!
  • Curious about what we're currently doing about bots? Check out the latest updates from staff in this thread.

Battle Mechanics Research

The way Pressure is works is that, for every Pokémon with Pressure that you target, you will lose one extra PP whenever you perform a move. Use Stone Edge against a Zapdos and you'll drop 2 PP. Use Rock Slide against Zapdos and Dusknoir, and you'll lose 3 PP, and it extends to Triples.
In Gen IV, your partners in Doubles could hit you with the PP Drop if you hit them, but that was changed in B/W. So the ability is only defined by who you hit, and does most certainly stack for multiple targets provided they are on your opponents' side.

I'm pretty sure Flame Burst will not cause it to stack, as the move doesn't have multiple targets.
 
Last edited:
Went out and tested for the +1 critical rate. Slash Blaziken, used all PP 3 times.

6/20
3/20
4/20

13/60 is total. 21.6%, with the obvious fluctuating rates. To me it's looking more and more likely that it's a 1/4 chance. Might do more tests after I sleep.

If we already know this, then ignore the crazy sleep deprived man. And possibly fill him in on the actual rate.

EDIT: I know the sample is too small, but it can be conceivably added on to whatever other results we have, since it's a constant whatever-it-is%. Still, going to go out and slash things up. (Sobs slightly)
 
Last edited:
-flower veil works on the owner in double battles, and presumably in singles as well.

-parting shot still switches the user out when used against a clear body pokemon or when mist is active, despite the stat drops not occuring.
-parting shot is a sound move, and as such ignores substitute and gets blocked by soundproof.
-parting shot is completely blocked by protect.
-parting shot is not a contact move.

-aromatic mist targets 1 close ally and gives it a +1 special defense boost. it cannot be used on the user.

-magnetic flux gives +1 defense and special defense to all pokemon with the plus or minus ability on your side of the field, including the user, if applicable. it can work in single battles too, as a result.

-it was a crapshoot anyways, but lucky chant most likely does not boost the critical hit ratio. only 1/10 hits crit from a floette with no other crit boosters while lucky chant was active.
 
Conspirator said:
Went out and tested for the +1 critical rate. Slash Blaziken, used all PP 3 times.

6/20
3/20
4/20

13/60 is total. 21.6%, with the obvious fluctuating rates. To me it's looking more and more likely that it's a 1/4 chance. Might do more tests after I sleep.

If we already know this, then ignore the crazy sleep deprived man. And possibly fill him in on the actual rate.
Actually +1 crit rate still needs testing but you'd want a larger sample, 200-250 at least.
 
Just noticed in battle maison that Detect doesn't block roar (didn't find any mention of this here). Also tested Whirlwind/Bug Buzz/Dragon tail on wild Pokemon battle and Whirlwind was the only move that wasn't blocked by Protect.

Conclusion: Protect/Detect does NOT block: Roar or Whirlwind in gen VI.
 
sb879 said:
-flower veil works on the owner in double battles, and presumably in singles as well.

-parting shot still switches the user out when used against a clear body pokemon or when mist is active, despite the stat drops not occuring.
-parting shot is a sound move, and as such ignores substitute and gets blocked by soundproof.
-parting shot is completely blocked by protect.
-parting shot is not a contact move.

-aromatic mist targets 1 close ally and gives it a +1 special defense boost. it cannot be used on the user.

-magnetic flux gives +1 defense and special defense to all pokemon with the plus or minus ability on your side of the field, including the user, if applicable. it can work in single battles too, as a result.

-it was a crapshoot anyways, but lucky chant most likely does not boost the critical hit ratio. only 1/10 hits crit from a floette with no other crit boosters while lucky chant was active.

Didn't know that Magnetic Flux also works on the user! MegaAmpharos might like that extra bulk with ParaFusion + Leftovers support. It would only limit Amphy to Thunderbolt though...

Anyways, I saw an interesting topic on GameFAQs. The game says Misty Terrain halves Dragon damage when on the ground. Does that modifier affect the grounded user of the attack or the grounded receiver of the attack?
 
Conspirator said:
Went out and tested for the +1 critical rate. Slash Blaziken, used all PP 3 times.

6/20
3/20
4/20

13/60 is total. 21.6%, with the obvious fluctuating rates. To me it's looking more and more likely that it's a 1/4 chance. Might do more tests after I sleep.

If we already know this, then ignore the crazy sleep deprived man. And possibly fill him in on the actual rate.

EDIT: I know the sample is too small, but it can be conceivably added on to whatever other results we have, since it's a constant whatever-it-is%. Still, going to go out and slash things up. (Sobs slightly)

I've got some more +1 crit testing. I was planning to do 500, but I just have not had the time. 15/175. If I combine that with your results we get 8.9%. Seems iffy to me. My results alone are looking like a 1/12, and your results don't bring it up much due to your smaller sample size. We still only have 235 trials, and the ones I did seem too low to me. Might just have been bad luck, which is why I would like to see at least 500 if not more trials.
 
out of the 600 tests i did with my scope lens aggron (armed with a steven-inspired moveset of iron head/surf/thunderbolt/aerial ace), 73 were crits, which is a ~12.167% crit rate. combined with the other 2 tests above, that gives 101/835 crits total, or ~12.096%. given how close this is to 12.5%, i'm fairly comfortable in asserting that +1 critical rate remains 1/8.

(also oh my god getting leftovers from pickup is awful, i had 3 users with me and i only got 1 throughout the whole thing :|)
 
sb879 said:
out of the 600 tests i did with my scope lens aggron (armed with a steven-inspired moveset of iron head/surf/thunderbolt/aerial ace), 73 were crits, which is a ~12.167% crit rate. combined with the other 2 tests above, that gives 101/835 crits total, or ~12.096%. given how close this is to 12.5%, i'm fairly comfortable in asserting that +1 critical rate remains 1/8.

(also oh my god getting leftovers from pickup is awful, i had 3 users with me and i only got 1 throughout the whole thing :|)

Good to know, I was thinking it was probably 1/8. Also I had 4 pickupers with me and also only got one through my 250 tests of +2 and my 175 tests of +1

You might want to post your results over in the critical hit thread as well
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/critical-hits.3490173/
 
Last edited:
Of course, this makes me really wonder as to how the hell this works mathematically. Almost makes me want to say that super luck and focus energy raise it by three stages.

But yeah, did some two hundred tests. 27/200, which is 13.5%
 
[13:30:37] <~Stellar> random thing I learned just now while playing battle spot
[13:30:47] <~Stellar> knock off activates weakness policy before knocking it off
 
Stellar said:
[13:30:37] <~Stellar> random thing I learned just now while playing battle spot
[13:30:47] <~Stellar> knock off activates weakness policy before knocking it off

This is how it worked since Gen IV with items like the Colbur Berry; Knock Off will activate items before knocking them away if applicable.

As an aside, can items that have been Knocked Off be stolen by Thief/Pickpocket/Magician?
 
Just something I noticed on battle maison and haven't seen mentioned yet. If a Pokemon with Unburden loses item and then gains a new item the speed boost is lost.
 
Flinging a held item gives the speed doubling effect from Unburden. Just tested it in Le Nah so I can't upload a video. I'm not sure how it worked last gen, but it's definitely not implemented on Showdown.
 
Am I correct in assuming that Unburden's speed boost still doesn't persist if the Pokemon is switched out?

The fact that Belch is able remember that a Pokemon had used a Berry even after it switches out made me think Unburden might work similarly now.
 
Rakurai said:
Am I correct in assuming that Unburden's speed boost still doesn't persist if the Pokemon is switched out?

The fact that Belch is able remember that a Pokemon had used a Berry even after it switches out made me think Unburden might work similarly now.
On a related note, can a Pokemon that has eaten a berry still use Belch after being given another item (and then switched out sand back in)?
 
Can someone please check against Lucario if Justified provides an immunity to Dark-type moves, which would make sense with the Knock Off buff.
 
Not sure if you guys have found this already, or how useful it is but...

Flying types that use dig are still immune to earthquake while underground! Hawlucha you devil!
 
sb879 said:
out of the 600 tests i did with my scope lens aggron (armed with a steven-inspired moveset of iron head/surf/thunderbolt/aerial ace), 73 were crits, which is a ~12.167% crit rate. combined with the other 2 tests above, that gives 101/835 crits total, or ~12.096%. given how close this is to 12.5%, i'm fairly comfortable in asserting that +1 critical rate remains 1/8.

(also oh my god getting leftovers from pickup is awful, i had 3 users with me and i only got 1 throughout the whole thing :|)
That actually confirms my assertion from earlier that nothing has changed with the first 2 basic crit stages and the buff is only to the +3 and above stages.
Conspirator said:
Of course, this makes me really wonder as to how the hell this works mathematically. Almost makes me want to say that super luck and focus energy raise it by three stages.

But yeah, did some two hundred tests. 27/200, which is 13.5%
But that doesn't make sense that Focus Energy and Super Luck have been buffed to +3 crit unless Scope Lens was buffed to +2 as well since it's been already shown a few pages back a high crit move + Scope Lens results in a 50% crit rate or something extremely close on average which would be stage 3 in the old system, assuming it is a stage 3 we're working with. Everything so far points at it simply there being a huge jump in crit rate from stage 2 to stage 3.
 
Last edited:
Conspirator said:
Of course, this makes me really wonder as to how the hell this works mathematically. Almost makes me want to say that super luck and focus energy raise it by three stages.

But yeah, did some two hundred tests. 27/200, which is 13.5%

Mathematically super luck and focus energy have to be different. Right now we are assuming focus energy and stick are 2 because they were before and super luck, scope lens, razor claw, and high crit moves are 1. Lets call thing things we think are 1 A and the things we think are 2 B. Remember that the base crit (6.25%) is considered to be 1 by itself.

1 + A + A + A = 1+ 3A = 100%
1 + A + B = 100%

Solving these equations we find that B=2A. So lets say for argument sake that super luck got buffed to 2 stages, which would make all the A's also be 2 stages. in that case focus energy and stick would be 4 stages, and there would be 7 total stages instead of 4, but still only 4 of them would be reachable. I already proved this over in the critical hit thread as well, but unless the 3 things that were all A were found to not be equal then this held true. I tested high crit and super luck myself and they were equal. Someone else tested scope lens. So there are functionally 4 stages including the base crit.
 
ctom42 said:
Mathematically super luck and focus energy have to be different. Right now we are assuming focus energy and stick are 2 because they were before and super luck, scope lens, razor claw, and high crit moves are 1. Lets call thing things we think are 1 A and the things we think are 2 B. Remember that the base crit (6.25%) is considered to be 1 by itself.

1 + A + A + A = 1+ 3A = 100%
1 + A + B = 100%

Solving these equations we find that B=2A. So lets say for argument sake that super luck got buffed to 2 stages, which would make all the A's also be 2 stages. in that case focus energy and stick would be 4 stages, and there would be 7 total stages instead of 4, but still only 4 of them would be reachable. I already proved this over in the critical hit thread as well, but unless the 3 things that were all A were found to not be equal then this held true. I tested high crit and super luck myself and they were equal. Someone else tested scope lens. So there are functionally 4 stages including the base crit.

Although I agree with your conclusions, your math is extremely fuzzy. You cannot simply solve for the relationship between A and B because the plus signs in your equation aren't actually addition. Even if they were, these are the actual inequalities:

1 + A + A + A = 1+ 3A ≥ 100%
1 + A + B ≥100%

From these, you cannot determine that 2A = B.
 
LastFootnote said:
Although I agree with your conclusions, your math is extremely fuzzy. You cannot simply solve for the relationship between A and B because the plus signs in your equation aren't actually addition. Even if they were, these are the actual inequalities:

1 + A + A + A = 1+ 3A ≥ 100%
1 + A + B ≥100%

From these, you cannot determine that 2A = B.

These are not really inequalities. We know that A is the minimum amount you can raise the stage by. We know that 1+ 3A=100. There is no way in hell you can get 100% with less than 3A because you can't raise stages by a smaller interval, and based on how they always coded these in the past you reach the top stage and then any additional stages keep you at the top. We also know that both A and B are integers. We also know that 2A = B from the stages (both get you 50%) but I derived it from the 100 relationships because when I first did this the 50% were uncertain. Thus with that I can once again prove that 1+ A + B = 100.

Even without knowing that both 1+2A and 1+B were 50%, I can still prove 1+ A + B is 100%. The reason is because the stages are discrete. Because you have to be able to get to all of the stages with A alone you know that going from 1 + B to 1 + B + A will land you exactly on 100%. I agree that these could have been inequalities if we found that focus energy somehow worked outside of the normal crit stages, but all of our testing and evidence has turned up to the contrary.

Also as far as the plus signs not being additons my calculations are not for percentages they are for stages. Perhaps instead of 100% I should have used some variable to represent the stage at which we reach 100% (lets call it C). Your right in that we are not adding together percentages, but we are adding together stages. Each stage number we end up with is associated with a percentage.

Stage 1 + 3A = C is associated with 100%. If A were actually 7, then B would be 14, and
1 + 3(7) = 21 = C
1 + 7 + 14 = 21 =C

You would only be able to reach stages 1, 7, 14, and 21, making there still functionally 4 stages.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top