Battle Tree Discussion and Records

This Aegislash(also copied from Maison thread) runs 79 Speed, so no worries about tying with the 80 Speed group. However, I'm not sure this is optimum for Battle Tree, but I have not had a chance to look at it myself. I remember part of the reason for the 79 Speed was to outrun Regice and avoid paralysis, but a quick switch to Fini and back, will afford another set up opportunity without paralysis woes. Minimum speed would have been useful many times when I had to risk another Swords Dance to ensure a OHKO on a slower opponent without having to worry about taking a hit in Blade form.
Oh yeah, I forgot about using an imperfect Speed IV. I actually used an Adamant 31IV, 4 Spe variant to hit 81 Speed for the Maison, mainly cause I was concerned about hitting Empoleon4 with a Sacred Sword before it could potentially Sub. However, both sets have their merits and should be adjusted accordingly to your team. Definitely looking forward to using Tapu Fini when I get the chance; having an immediate Ice-resist immune to freeze hax is amazing, not to mention Aegi being able to reap the benefits while Misty Terrain is still active.
 

Smuckem

Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
is a Community Contributor
edit: a bit of data (really, it's too little to say much at all). pkmn that appear within 10 battles of their last appearance are bolded, with the previous sighting in italics. note that this is quite an arbitrary frequency that i've picked as "significant".

#12 audino, jellicent, lickilicky 2-0
#13 sharpedo, weezing, noivern 1-0
weezing explodes on tapu-fini, but noivern does not win against garchomp with sash intact
#14 jellicent, salazzle (ft), nidoking 3-0
ft salazzle lacks sludge bomb, tapu wins easily
#15 milotic, bruxish, kingdra 3-0
unboosted leaf blade does not ohko milotic
#16 unfezant, chandelure, lopunny 2-0
#17 bouffalant, machamp, aerodactyl 3-0
+1 psycho cut always ohkoes machamp, but don't attempt it unboosted (fire punch)
#18 [?], [ice platform], rotom-fridge 3-0
#19 salazzle (ft), druddigon, aerodactyl 3-0
#20 (colress) muk, porygon-z, metagross-mega 1-0
too close; too many base 110 mons threaten this team
#21 goodra, [?], ludicolo 2-0
#22 gyarados, arcanine, clawitzer 3-0
#23 chandelure, rhyperior, crobat 2-0
even critical poison jab from crobat will not ohko tapu-fini
#24 flygon, rotom-mower, minior 2-0
#25 rotom-wash, armaldo, bruxish 3-0
#26 scizor, ursaring, gigalith 3-0
#27 gardevoir, camerupt, [squid] 2-0
#28 jolteon, glaceon, leafeon 3-0
#29 infernape, lurantis, camerupt 3-0
#30 (kiawe) arcanine, salazzle (fake out), talonflame (swords dance) 2-0
garchomp outrage failed to ohko talonflame by a hair
#31 flareon, leafeon, sylveon 3-0
all eevelutions will appear more often thanks to these eevee trainers, i assume
#32 incineroar, talonflame (special/sunny day), ninetales 2-0
#33 ninetales, shiftry, typhlosion 2-0
#34 scrafty, absol, togedemaru 2-0
sacred sword does not ohko scrafty
#35 [perfume owl], cofagrigus, bronzong 3-0
#36 breloom, hawlucha, tauros 3-0
tapu-fini dodges tauros giga impact just to spite it
#37 staraptor (choiced), arcanine, dusknoir 2-0
#38 flygon, [ice platform], sableye (sash) 2-0
#39 froslass, ambipom, lopunny-mega 0-1
terrible lapse of judgment: froslass outspeeds +spd kartana (there's another froslass that doesn't) and kills with blizzard; kills tapu with dbond; ambipom breaks chomp's sash, lopunny used ice punch good game. arrogance is punished

i do like that i lost against a black belt who claimed that he had spent ten years in preparation for this day, but not reaching #50 does annoy me
Looking at that list, the Tree sure seemed keen on throwing Rocks, Fires, and Flyers at you this time around. I would note that the AI may get 'stuck', not just on selecting certain sets, but certain Trainer classes as well. I believe I posted about this a couple of times in my Maison experience, though without collecting hard data.

Your inability to remember Avalugg's name inspires me: while getting Floatzel on the leaderboard will still be my main objective post-Bank, getting the ice platform on there will now be my second. The typing and BST distribution aren't conducive to making it a bulky switch-in in Doubles, but perhaps as part of a TR team, I can make it work...
 
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Hey everyone,

Been lurking for a bit. Was more active on reddit's Stunfisk but I see there's more discussion here.

I've been able to reach 103 with this team:

Mimikyu - Holding Fairium-Z 252Atk/Spd 4/SpDef Jolly
-Swords Dance
-Shadow Sneak
-Shadow Claw
-Rough Play

Garchomp - Holding Life Orb - 252atk/Sp 4/SpDef Jolly Ability: Rough Skin
-Swords Dance
-EQ
-Outrage
-Fire Fang (Fireblast has too low of an accuracy for me to rely on it hitting)

Toxapex - Holding Black Sludge - 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 Speed Calm Ability: Regenerator
-Haze
-Scald
-Toxic
-Recover

I only lost because the NPC got 4 quick claws out in a row and was able to take down both Mimikyu and Garchomp before Crit OHKOing Toxapex.

Fairium-Z is extremely useful because you get one 150atk/110 accuracy attack a game, which means Mimikyu can almost always OHKO anything that's in front of it, sometimes even without Swords Dance. I use this to deal with anything that's faster than Mimikyu where shadow claw isn't super effective and either SD + Shadow Claw or Shadow Claw + Shadow Sneak won't kill it. Also I immediately use it against Rotom because that mother****er always Paralyzes me and I've lost a 50+ streak three times because of that.

I've tried running Aegislash, Pheromosa, Dragonite, Megagross, and Muk to see how they all do.

Aegislash and Megagross don't do anything that my other teammates can't do (Garchomp for EQ, Mimikyu for ghost-type). I'm missing things that can deal with Fairy/Flying/Water but I've not had a problem so far.

Pheromosa is too much of a glass cannon and I'd rather trade her (Him?) for a more reliable pokemon that can actually survive hits.

Muk is more offensive than Toxapex, but if I'm sending Toxapex out it's because I need to stall something in front of me.


Generally I've been playing VERY conservatively once I get to a streak of 50. I'll try to toxic stall as much as I can before I even bother sending anything else out.
 
just wanna say that any devs even remotely capable of developing a "counterteaming" kind of algorithm/AI get poached by google, microsoft, apple, ibm, intel, etc and would not be working for a gaming company cuz such a thing would be so much more valuable for anything besides gaming. there is no overarching AI here. just a gauntlet designed in a deep enough system that every possible selection has some kind of weakness somewhere, alongside just enough rng hax to screw up anything that is so close to perfect that 99.95+% of possibilities are covered.
 
200-win streak achieved
Battle Video Code (vs Colress): HCRW-WWWW-WWW2-JCYU

1) UB-02 Beauty / Pheromosa (Diva Desu)
Ability: Beast Boost
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
Moves: High Jump Kick, U-turn, Ice Beam, Poison Jab

2) Tapu Lele (Chenaya)
Abilitiy: Psychic Surge
Item:Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
Moves: Psychic, Moonblast, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt

3) Shiny Mimikyu (Reprisal)
Ability: Disguise
Item: Ghostium Z
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
Moves: Swords Dance, Play Rough, Shadow Sneak, Shadow Claw

Proof: http://imgur.com/a/5kxMD

Won't go into detail and stuff as extremely few people bother to read what others write and just go on with their rants; I just wanted to show that it is possible pre-pokebank, so that most of you stop whining.
Laters~
 
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XnadrojX

Mafia Champion
So I did a 252/252 Atk/Some spread for site and I realised Roost kinda sucks on it. So the problem us what coverage to teach it. Fire Punch or Thunder Punch or something else? Help greatly appreciated.
 
Well, one of the Gengar sets just roasted my team... it put them all to sleep and used dream eater/nightmare. Excellent accuracy with hypnosis, too.

My lead, pheromosa is having trouble with ghosts in general. Anyone else have tips for dealing with them?
 
Well, one of the Gengar sets just roasted my team... it put them all to sleep and used dream eater/nightmare. Excellent accuracy with hypnosis, too.

My lead, pheromosa is having trouble with ghosts in general. Anyone else have tips for dealing with them?
Gengar-1 troubles everyone. Post up your full team, I'm not sure what you have other than a sashed Pheromosa so help is difficult.
 
Well, one of the Gengar sets just roasted my team... it put them all to sleep and used dream eater/nightmare. Excellent accuracy with hypnosis, too.

My lead, pheromosa is having trouble with ghosts in general. Anyone else have tips for dealing with them?
Did you try switch stalling Hypnosis PP? Switch out as soon as a Pokémon gets put to sleep because Dream Eater should be next. Immediately switch back to the sleeping Pokémon because Gengar will probably try putting your second to sleep. Repeat until no more Hypnosis PP left.
 
Everybody's very enthusiastic for Super Singles here. But now that I managed a 50 streak there, I'd love to proceed to Doubles.
Does anybody have a nice, easy-to-use team suggestion for me? I can only think of the team I used for the Battle Maison
but Pokemon Bank is not updated yet... annimon, do you maybe have a suggestion? Your Super Singles team worked extremely well for me!
 
Finally got to 50 wins in Super Singles last night with this team:

1) Kingdra @ Scope Lens
Nature: Modest
Ability: Sniper
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Speed/4 HP
-Draco Meteor
-Surf
-Flash Cannon
-Focus Energy

2) Celesteela @ Assault Vest
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Speed
-Heavy Slam
-Earthquake
-Fire Blast
-Explosion

3) Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
-Ice Shard
-Earthquake
-Icicle Spear
-Rock Tomb

I used to run a Mimikyu like everyone but then I got tired of facing Hypnosis Gengar over and over again so I built a team with my favorite poke, Kingdra.
Had a tough time with M-Lucarios around battle 38 and 43. Close Combat would OHKO Kingdra and take Celesteela down to red before EQ killed it and then I had to hope to Jesus for a good matchup.

Overall, I enjoyed it quite a bit more than Battle Maison with all the Z-moves and Mega Evolutions used by opposing trainers! Facing Red at Battle 50 was a nice touch.
 
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200-win streak achieved
Battle Video Code (vs Colress): HCRW-WWWW-WWW2-JCYU

1) UB-02 Beauty / Pheromosa (Diva Desu)
Ability: Beast Boost
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
Moves: High Jump Kick, U-turn, Ice Beam, Poison Jab

2) Tapu Lele (Chenaya)
Abilitiy: Psychic Surge
Item:Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
Moves: Psychic, Moonblast, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt

3) Shiny Mimikyu (Reprisal)
Ability: Disguise
Item: Ghostium Z
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Jolly
Moves: Swords Dance, Play Rough, Shadow Sneak, Shadow Claw

Proof: http://imgur.com/a/5kxMD

Won't go into detail and stuff as extremely few people bother to read what others write and just go on with their rants; I just wanted to show that it is possible pre-pokebank, so that most of you stop whining.
Laters~
I was using that exact same phermosa with a wide lens, did high jump kick miss often and give you a headache? Please do go on a rant as I'm very interested as to how this team was used and what the genreal threats were. Why did you go timid + 252 Spe as opposed to modest on lele since you're running scarf as well?
 
Everybody's very enthusiastic for Super Singles here. But now that I managed a 50 streak there, I'd love to proceed to Doubles.
Does anybody have a nice, easy-to-use team suggestion for me? I can only think of the team I used for the Battle Maison
but Pokemon Bank is not updated yet... annimon, do you maybe have a suggestion? Your Super Singles team worked extremely well for me!
The team I posted before worked pretty well, it's also pretty easy to get and use.

(On mobile so I'll edit my comment with it later)
 
I was using that exact same phermosa with a wide lens, did high jump kick miss often and give you a headache? Please do go on a rant as I'm very interested as to how this team was used and what the genreal threats were. Why did you go timid + 252 Spe as opposed to modest on lele since you're running scarf as well?
Ah someone does read other comments instead of just going on about their struggle, I am impressed o.o
My HJK missed very few times actually, I got punished during them of course but at some others I was lucky enough so that enemy mon sets up during that turn (some even missed their own moves). Usually I just hit 3 out of 3 (or more if needed, but was unlikely, lucky crits included), like in the video I posted vs Colress.
Pheromosa is vulnerable to being OHKOed by even neutral attacks. Because of this, it is very weak to priority moves, and you often have to play under the assumption Pheromosa needs to be able to KO what's in front of it or U-turn out otherwise.
Tapu Lele is very reliant on Choice items. Speed Nature + Scarf outspeeds possible enemies with Scarf (there are a lot), so you can deal decent damage to them before dying. On the other hand, it puts Tapu Lele into a tough spot. Having Tapu Lele on your team also means you have to be wary about using your own priority moves and perhaps not even include any on your team. This means that fast, frail Pokémon on your opponent's team don't have to worry so much about getting bopped by a priority move.
Mimikyu is currently looking to be a prominent threat is solely because of Disguise. Mimikyu has fairly average stats otherwise and a low Attack stat for a sweeper. This means that once Disguise is broken, Mimikyu becomes much less threatening. If Psychic Terrain is up, Mimikyu won't be able to revenge kill threats without using up its Disguise.
All in all, you can say I was lucky, someone can fail with the team mentioned, while someone else can succeed with a far worse, it all comes down to RNG in the end.
 
Gengar-1 troubles everyone. Post up your full team, I'm not sure what you have other than a sashed Pheromosa so help is difficult.
Pheromosa, defensive Celesteela and Toxapex. Pretty standard from I can tell. It shares two double weaknesses in electric and psychic, but so far that hasn't been an issue thanks to my tanks' sheer titanic defenses.

Thanks for the tip, iVolke. I'll certainly be trying that out in the future. I already ran into the Gengar again and got luckier against it.

Koro Sensei, I do read other posts. While my post was primarily about "my struggle" that doesn't mean I just ignore the rest of this board and what others have to offer. I don't appreciate the dig.
Nice streak, though.

Edit- Just realized he could not possibly have been referring to my post, as I posted after him.
Wow, I feel foolish.
Never mind!
 
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Well, one of the Gengar sets just roasted my team... it put them all to sleep and used dream eater/nightmare. Excellent accuracy with hypnosis, too.

My lead, pheromosa is having trouble with ghosts in general. Anyone else have tips for dealing with them?
Well, my first tip would have been "try something besides Pheromosa if Ghosts are your problem" but now that a team with Pheromosa and 2 Ghost-weak teammates has somehow gotten 200 straight wins, what do I know. There must be some top-secret method that is also tied in to never missing with Play Rough and High Jump Kick.

But seriously if you're just trying to get 50 the Hypnosis Gengar is rare enough considering considering you have to see it as a lead for it to really wreck you. Don't overhaul stuff in a way that will leave you more weak to common things because that set's usually present in earlier battles with weaker teammates - if you sacrifice something to break the Sash and bring in a priority user or something else that revenges, you'd need an extra layer of unluckiness to not handle the 2v2 from there.

Otherwise the only real safe way around it is switch stalling, but even then you'd need a Normal type or maybe something like Regenerator Toxapex to not get worn down by repeated Shadow Balls.

Korados Tapu Koko is probably going to be the easy mode for 50 in Doubles this gen. Lots of options between using Thunder on a Rain team, pairing it with a good electric immunity like Garchomp and spamming Discharge, or just going all-out with electric spam.
 

Smuckem

Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
is a Community Contributor
#53 regigigas (double team), slaking, archeops 3-0
This may be the greatest opponent in Super Singles history, and an excellent counterargument to any future "counterteaming" things that may come up.
Slow Start/Truant/Defeatist in one team sounds incredible, please share that battle when you have the chance.
 
1) UB-02 Beauty / Pheromosa (Diva Desu)
Ability: Beast Boost
Item: Life Orb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Naive
Moves: High Jump Kick, U-turn, Ice Beam, Poison Jab
Is there a particular reason you went for Naive over Hasty.

I would also appreciate if s/o could elaborate why (or why not) naive is a better choice than Lonely and Naughty.


Thanks in advance :)
 
Is there a particular reason you went for Naive over Hasty.

I would also appreciate if s/o could elaborate why (or why not) naive is a better choice than Lonely and Naughty.


Thanks in advance :)
The vast majority of priority moves are Physical. You don't want to make yourself more vulnerable to them, so you lower your SpD instead. Plus speed nature to hit 223 Speed vs 203 because there's a number of Pokémon in between there, and believe it or not, Pheremosa is not the fastest Pokémon in the tree with either nature thanks to Choice Scarf.
 
Well, one of the Gengar sets just roasted my team... it put them all to sleep and used dream eater/nightmare. Excellent accuracy with hypnosis, too.

My lead, pheromosa is having trouble with ghosts in general. Anyone else have tips for dealing with them?
Yeah I find this really easy to deal with if you have a pokemon that knows Shadow Sneak (I have a Mimikyu in my party for this). The AI will almost always throw out Hypnosis then a dream eater. So just sacrifice something to Hyponsis, and then once it uses dream eater switch to your Shadow Sneak. It should be able to 1HKO the Gengar if you have 252ATK on it.
 
here's one last batch of data that might support my argument:
[snip]
I'd recommend keeping track of trainer classes and names in addition to Pokémon, per Smuckem's suggestion that

I would note that the AI may get 'stuck', not just on selecting certain sets, but certain Trainer classes as well. I believe I posted about this a couple of times in my Maison experience, though without collecting hard data.
True, it does seem more likely that if the AI is getting "stuck" it is on a Pokémon roll rather than a Trainer roll, but for the sake of statistical analysis it may be worthwhile to see if there is any consistency to the Trainers (whether in the Pokémon they use or in how often they show up as opponents).
 
The vast majority of priority moves are Physical. You don't want to make yourself more vulnerable to them, so you lower your SpD instead. Plus speed nature to hit 223 Speed vs 203 because there's a number of Pokémon in between there, and believe it or not, Pheremosa is not the fastest Pokémon in the tree with either nature thanks to Choice Scarf.
Ok, that is good to know. I was just wondering if it may be positive to have Pheromosa's Attack being higher than its Speed, to have Beast Boost increase its Attack instead. But I guess speed is just more important than anything else then. Thanks!
 
Is there a particular reason you went for Naive over Hasty.

I would also appreciate if s/o could elaborate why (or why not) naive is a better choice than Lonely and Naughty.


Thanks in advance :)
As iVolke said, it is because you need as much Speed as you can, most mons in Tree are scarfed so you need to outspeed them, Pheromosa's atk with life orb and stab covers all you need~
 

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