Battle Tree Discussion and Records

[MKL122788]

So, I've been theorizing a post-Bank obnoxious time wasting core.

Tangrowth + Toxapex could make a hilariously obnoxious swap-spam Regenerator core. Is this something that could work? Or just a ridiculous pipe dream?

Each one resists all but one of the others weaknesses. This makes flying and psychic the most effective types against this core, but all it would take is a steel pokemon to complete the obnoxiousness.

 

[Anna says hi]

Hey everyone, I've been lurking this thread for a few days. I haven't started Battle Tree yet, because I've been wanting to make a reliable team for grinding to 50 in Super Singles. The team that caught my attention was iVolke's:



I really like the idea of a Dragon/Steel/Fairy core for Battle Tree. Misty Terrain seems amazing, because I cannot even count the number of times I've lost a long streak to Sleep, Para or Confusion hax. I'm mostly indecisive about Fini's set, and choosing between Specs or Scarf, or even a different item althogether to be able to use Haze. Also, I'm unsure between Dragon Claw and Outrage for Dragonite. Any thoughts?

Outrage is a must due to the power difference being incomparable. As for Tapu Fini, using Leftovers is certainly an option, but when the Leftovers are already taken, a Choice item is your best shot. Of course, there's still tons of EV optimization for Fini and Dragonite.

 

[Siggu]

So, I've been theorizing a post-Bank obnoxious time wasting core.

Tangrowth + Toxapex could make a hilariously obnoxious swap-spam Regenerator core. Is this something that could work? Or just a ridiculous pipe dream?

Each one resists all but one of the others weaknesses. This makes flying and psychic the most effective types against this core, but all it would take is a steel pokemon to complete the obnoxiousness.

If you want to be triple-annoying, there's Assault Vest Slowking to take Psychic attacks and most Flying moves :P

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[MKL122788]

sigh

new super singles streak (still using my same team as posted previously, which at least seems to reach and win 50 consistently): 89, i knew as soon as i saw that #90 was plumeria that she'd run brave bird crobat and salazzle, both of which mean big trouble in little china for this team; crucial mistake was to attempt swords dance vs toxapex under such circumstances and allow ice beam to cripple the dragon, which is direly needed vs kinklizard. not switching to kartana on the brave bird may have been weak play as well when an outspeeding fire-type could be expected for plume's lastmon.

i had replaced night slash with aerial ace on kartana which allows me to kill e.g. swords dance virizion, which can be dangerous otherwise since kartana can only 3hko, and deal more damage to mega-venu; i stand by my decision even though night slash would have left me with ~10% chances to win here (both blasts missing)

also, to that guy who complained about the computer hitting "nearly every time" with moves such as focus blast: salazzle missed 1 out of 3 fire blasts in this video just as expected 36ZW-WWWW-WWW2-Y6V9

really wanted to break 100 but with all the sashed fire types, fast fire types, accelgor, crobat, mega-venusaur and such i don't expect it to be happening any time soon (also thanks to my misplays). think i'll try breeding for a different steel/dragon/fairy core that doesn't lose to these threats, i have one in mind already

side note: confirm/deny, red's team at 50 will always consist of lapras, blastoise, and venusaur of sets 3/4 in random order

I think a physical autotomize Celesteela could cause this team a lot of problems. With just Heavy Slam and Earthquake, it would melt that core. I find that Celesteela in generally completely walls lots of things without being passive like Skarmory is.

She also has just the two weaknesses in fire and electric, both are covered extremely well by a dragon pokemon. She covers said dragon pokemon's weaknesses well, also.

Maybe Celesteela/Tapu Lele for the Steel and Fairy cornerstones with a dragon rounding it out?

I was jokingly going to suggest Guzzlord or Hydreigon because Tapu Lele's only weakness that Celesteela doesn't resist is ghost, but who knows if that would actually work.

 

[Korados]

side note: confirm/deny, red's team at 50 will always consist of lapras, blastoise, and venusaur of sets 3/4 in random order

Yesterday, I managed to beat Red at battle 50, and forgot to record the video. :( But I can confirm that he used Lapras, Charizard-Y and Blastoise. I won because
I could OHKO Charizard-Y with Nihilego's Power Gem. In one of my previous, unsuccessful attemps, he also used Snorlax and Charizard-X. The latter wiped my whole team.

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[ForgottenEons]

Outrage is a must due to the power difference being incomparable. As for Tapu Fini, using Leftovers is certainly an option, but when the Leftovers are already taken, a Choice item is your best shot. Of course, there's still tons of EV optimization for Fini and Dragonite.

True, my main concern was being locked in Outrage against a Fairy. I'll stick to Scarf for now and see how it does, Lefties is too important for Aegislash.

 

[MKL122788]

no trainer in the battle tree uses celesteela according to the speed tier list, so that's not an issue, and unfortunately i cannot use a good celesteela because i only have sun and my friends claim they don't want to reset for theirs ("too much work" apparently, and i haven't been able to convince them otherwise -- that said, i failed to reset for a jolly kartana as well, stopped when i got hardy with good ivs; maybe i'll start my game over for that once bank goes live).

i like your suggestion nonetheless and cele's typing sure is wonderful, resists grass 4x which is important for tapu and chomp, and doesn't just die to lickilicky's fire blast or kingdra blizzard after dealing 95% to it. then there's the wonderful leech seed to play around with, too...

I have 3 Jolly Kartana, only one of which I use. You may have one if you'd like. I have 2 Celesteela, one Adamant, one Modest. Both intended for the Maison, to hit 101(already EV'd as such) speed, so they outspeed most relevant things at +2 and everything at +4. Neither is created to be a defensive, leech seed user, though.

Still on the grind to get them to 100 and bottle cap, so I will let you know how that goes.

 

[LucarioMega]

What trainer you guys faced in battle 100? (or 200 if you got there).

I ask this because i faced Anabel in battle 100, then i lost in battle 120+ or so, and then i got to 100 again and faced her and i just got to battle 200 and she was there.... again... So i dont know if she is like a "given" in those battles.

 

[Lystomato]

side note: confirm/deny, red's team at 50 will always consist of lapras, blastoise, and venusaur of sets 3/4 in random order

The first time I made it to Red at 50 using M-Scizor, Toxapex, Mimikyu- he started with Snorlax-4. I wasn't checking sets, tried to set up a Swords Dance on Scizor, took an easy earthquake. I wasn't worried, because M-Scizor took that like a champ. Swords Dance again, hoping to Bullet Punch after and sweep, and Snorlax used Fissure. Sent out Mimikyu to set up Swords Dance/Play Rough to take down Snorlax. Next up was Charizard-4, and Mimikyu was too slow/frail, and my specially defensive Toxapex was just set up on and wiped. Sadness.

Next (and most recent) time I made it to Red at 50, I was using M-Salamence, Aegislash, Specs Fini. That one I recall being Lapras, Venusaur, Blastoise. I remember specifically because I stalled out mega-venusaur's sludge bombs and giga drains just swapping Aegislash and Megamence.

Perhaps it has to do with the Battle Tree's anti-team comp set ups? I've noticed when running different teams that some pokemon appear more common than others. For example, before I got Aegislash, I was using Bulky Scizor, but kept running into Rotom-W, which gave me a lot of trouble around battle 37. With Mence, Aegislash, and Fini, I don't remember running into Rotom-W anymore.

 

[eric7223]

Honestly this Dragonite/Toxapex duo is pretty legit. Toxapex might be OP, it can literally tank almost anything, and Dragonite often sweeps teams. I added the Decidueye because I bred a shiny one for my main play through and I wanted to get some BP to get the power items (EV training was taking too long), and my team has just kept going. Decidueye is really just there for random electric types or grounds. I'm at 45 in a row now.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Adamant
Dragon Rush (its lack of accuracy is going to bite me in the ass soon, I was just too lazy to level up to get Outrage)
Earthquake
Roost
Dragon Dance
52 HP 252 Attack 4 Def 12 SpD 188 Spe

Decidueye @ Life Orb
Adamant
Spirit Shackle
Leaf Blade
Swords Dance
U-Turn

Not sure about it's EVs since I used it for my main play through, the EV checker makes it seem like most are in Attack, HP, and Speed

Toxapex @ Black Sludge
Bold
Toxic
Scald
Haze
Recover

252 in HP/Def 4 in SpD

Decidueye is definitely the weak link, but it has come in handy quite a few times now.

 

[Newango]

eric7223, you can now teach every level up move with Heart Scales, regardless of your current level.

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[MKL122788]

i won't go as far as to assume actual counter-teaming, but i'll strongly support the notion that certain mons seem to pop up every five battles (e.g. arcanine -- with at least eight instances in that 89 streak alone! -- infernape, zapdos, and heatran for me) and others not at all (moltres, articuno, suicune). the computer seems to pick e.g. regirock a lot as well, however, which all three members of my team can hit super-effectively, and nothing i carry is weak to the rock type with two mons even resisting it, so the "rationale", if any, fails to show in that case

i do find it curious that we both ran into lapras/blastoise/venusaur with dragon/steel/tapu-fini

I wonder if the test could be run with Primarina instead of Tapu Fini to demonstrate that the matchup you get is entirely based on the types you are bringing with you. If that is the case, you could strategically build substitute characters/builds of the same pokemon to counter known fights.

 

[GG Unit]

I wonder if the test could be run with Primarina instead of Tapu Fini to demonstrate that the matchup you get is entirely based on the types you are bringing with you. If that is the case, you could strategically build substitute characters/builds of the same pokemon to counter known fights.

Just no. We don't need to waste any time on this kind of thinking. It has been proven again and again not to be the case.

• Please do not make claims about AI "cheating," be it through influencing probability (forced hax), coded counterteaming, impossible abilities (e.g. Wonder Guard Spiritomb), etc. UNLESS YOU HAVE SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE. Every generation, people make crazy claims about how the AI cheats. Many such claims prove demonstrably untrue, while for all others, there's been no solid evidence. If you want to post about how you lost to Sturdy Shedinja or the like, there had better be a battle video. I WILL EDIT, DELETE, AND/OR INFRACT POSTS THAT VIOLATE THIS RULE.

 

[MKL122788]

Just no. We don't need to waste any time on this kind of thinking. It has been proven again and again not to be the case.

I wasn't referring to a general trainer, I was simply referring to the set, famous people battles you get at certain milestones, since they pull from the same Pokemon pool. As far as I know, this is new compared to previous iterations of Battle Tree(Maison). This would make it entirely possible to have a slightly different mechanic if they had a smaller pool of Pokemon to pull from. It would only take, potentially, a single battle(even with the same 3) to disprove it, which would hardly indicate a large waste of time.

There was no need to take such a rude tone.

 

[Josh C.]

Outrage is a must due to the power difference being incomparable. As for Tapu Fini, using Leftovers is certainly an option, but when the Leftovers are already taken, a Choice item is your best shot. Of course, there's still tons of EV optimization for Fini and Dragonite.

I agree that Outrage is a no-brainer for this set, but room for EV optimization? Not really. I'm all too familiar with this build, having used it extensively in the ORAS Battle Maison to great success. Mind you, I haven't thoroughly looked at every new Battle Tree mon, but I can see a fair few Maison sets have made a return; glad to see the horror-inducing Walrein4 crossover to this generation. (Btw guys, since I see a number of you using bulky Nite already, give a shoutout to the original creator turskain should you continue to use it in the future, he'd probably appreciate that!)

Nite hits 186 Speed at +1 which is respectable enough, the beauty of this set is its ability to accrue multiple boosts in many situations thanks to solid bulk, Multiscale + Roost. Which is why I'd advise against tweaking the EVs too much, and you should always pair Nite with a Steel-type, imo SD Aegislash is hands down the best man for the job. You'll find it's not uncommon to completely switch-stall a threat out of all of its EdgeQuake PP, just so Nite/Aegi can setup safely, and that will happen multiple times if you're looking to maintain a sizeable streak, like 500+. Adamant/Brave were equally viable for XY/ORAS at least, but looking at the Tree's Speed tier list, you might opt for Brave so you can avoid awkward ties with the cluttered 80 Speed group.

 

[SilverLining]

Trying to reach 50 wins with Aegislash and failing only to reach 50 with Araquanid is a strange thought that somewhat disappoints me, given my assumption that I would be able to wield Aegislash with enough skill, but oh well. I shouldn't complain, I suppose.

That being said, the Battle Tree is a nice new challenge compared to the Maison, which could become mindless after a while.

I reached 50 in Super Singles with these three:

Nihilego @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 19 Def
- Sludge Wave
- Power Gem
- Thunderbolt
- Grass Knot

Araquanid @ Life Orb
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Liquidation
- Leech Life
- Crunch
- Aqua Ring

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate → Aerilate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SpD / 236 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Substitute

Credit to VaporeonIce for the Salamence set.

I should move four of Salamence's Special Defense EVs into Defense for one extra point, but I haven't done so because I lack motivation about it. I also should replace Araquanid with something that isn't Rock-weak, but Salamence twice stalled Rock Slide from Archeops4, so for this particular run, it worked out.

----------------------------

Also, with regards to Red, he can either draw from sets one and two or three and four, and within those two categories, who he picks is random, which means that he doesn't "counterteam" against anyone. Any sort of comparisons that can be drawn between people's experience battling him are coincidences. For the longtime posters of these sorts of threads (the Tree as well as the Maison, Subway, and Frontier/Tower), the discussion about "counterteaming" is one that is old and repeated too much. It is in all of us to reason that we lost because the game wanted us to, but many facets of the Tree are left up to chance, which is something that one must eventually accept if one wants to reach the lofty goals that were set by the Maison. And we often win because of this same chance as well, like getting that necessary critical hit on the last turn or getting a timely miss from Blizzard. Of course, trying to reach 1000 in the Tree is a much bigger challenge, but there is no doubt that this community will find a way.

 

[Anna says hi]

I agree that Outrage is a no-brainer for this set, but room for EV optimization? Not really. I'm all too familiar with this build, having used it extensively in the ORAS Battle Maison to great success. Mind you, I haven't thoroughly looked at every new Battle Tree mon, but I can see a fair few Maison sets have made a return; glad to see the horror-inducing Walrein4 crossover to this generation. (Btw guys, since I see a number of you using bulky Nite already, give a shoutout to the original creator turskain should you continue to use it in the future, he'd probably appreciate that!)

Nite hits 186 Speed at +1 which is respectable enough, the beauty of this set is its ability to accrue multiple boosts in many situations thanks to solid bulk, Multiscale + Roost. Which is why I'd advise against tweaking the EVs too much, and you should always pair Nite with a Steel-type, imo SD Aegislash is hands down the best man for the job. You'll find it's not uncommon to completely switch-stall a threat out of all of its EdgeQuake PP, just so Nite/Aegi can setup safely, and that will happen multiple times if you're looking to maintain a sizeable streak, like 500+. Adamant/Brave were equally viable for XY/ORAS at least, but looking at the Tree's Speed tier list, you might opt for Brave so you can avoid awkward ties with the cluttered 80 Speed group.

Sorry, I thought I saw a 252/252/4 spread
for Nite and must have mistaken it for another post. Tapu Fini's EVs are something that has a lot to improve on, though. With Scarf, outspeeding Weavile is enough, but I'm unsure of bulk benchmarks that I want to hit.
Also, being a Maison veteran, I'm no stranger to switch-stalling. In fact, I'm surprised at how little switch-stalling I need to do with this team.

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[Josh C.]

Sorry, I thought I saw a 252/252/4 spread
for Nite and must have mistaken it for another post. Tapu Fini's EVs are something that has a lot to improve on, though. With Scarf, outspeeding Weavile is enough, but I'm unsure of bulk benchmarks that I want to hit.
Also, being a Maison veteran, I'm no stranger to switch-stalling. In fact, I'm surprised at how little switch-stalling I need to do with this team.

Ah, fair enough. The Tapus and UBs seem to be popular choices at the moment; I'm gonna get round to catching them/SR'ing for favourable IVs, so in turn I can start farming BP for Power Items, Mega Stones etc. Should be fun trying out all these different strategies!
Sorry, that comment wasn't meant to be directed at you necessarily, more so for any newcomers sinking their teeth into the Battle Tree. Though it's time-consuming, switch-stalling is a safe tactic to fall back on if the need arises for your team.

 

[Altissimo]

just now i fought two battles against the same trainer in direct succession, both of which had rotom-fridge and glaceon (hail/ice team, the pool will be naturally small to begin with, third mon varied between weavile and beartic). i even saw the same team and trainer repeated almost back-to-back on the 89 streak; in my ongoing streak i fought three arcanines over the span of 10 battles again, etc. -- i mark down all the teams i run into.

[...]

it is, however, reasonable to assume that each generation of pokemon games can innovate certain battle tree/tower/maison mechanics, and in fact your blank "any sort of comparison that can be drawn between people's experience battling him are coincidences", unsupported by evidence, aimed at shutting down the discussion, contributes as little as "the computer cheats!". if anyone else climbs the tree with kartana/tapu-fini/garchomp and runs into a different team for red, i will be the very first to acknowledge this evidence against my suspicion.

you're not the first to posit this exact idea (far from it, in fact); the real question is, is there any real rhyme or reason behind such coincidences happening? that is to say, you mention running into multiple trainers with rotom-fridge and glaceon, and arcanine - but were these actual threats to your team or were they merely statistical coincidences? Because it may well be true that there is some quirk on the part of the RNG that creates certain Pokémon being seen more often than others - but this is only relevant if it can be suggested that the recurring Pokémon are based around the team you use as opposed to "the RNG quirk that rolls certain Pokémon 'too' often rolled Arcanine 'too' often" when Arcanine is not something your team has any trouble with.

If I remember right, certain older games in the series had a similar quirk where the RNG seems to get "stuck" on a certain result and rolls that result abnormally often in certain situations or abnormally low in others. In fact, I think I witnessed that earlier today playing Yellow version: in the span of one battle Thunder missed about three or four times in a row, whereas in other battles I could use it four or five times in a row without it missing. Of course, this isn't proof of an RNG quirk, but if the RNG quirk exists (which I swear I remember reading that it did), then that could be an explanation as to why Thunder might be so erratic (beyond the normal statistics underlying a 70% accurate move, that is) from one battle to the next. While I've got a history of fervently denying that the AI relies on anything but a "neutral" RNG ("neutral" in quotes because obviously the RNG is not 100% random), it may not be too out of place to consider that the RNG quirk does exist in some form. However, it's only worth discussion if it can be sufficiently argued that the quirk exists against the player rather than just as a "neutral" quirk.

Does that make sense? I know what I'm trying to say but I'm not sure how well I'm expressing it.

 

[Coeur7]

EXCISED

 

[iVolke]

Hey everyone, I've been lurking this thread for a few days. I haven't started Battle Tree yet, because I've been wanting to make a reliable team for grinding to 50 in Super Singles. The team that caught my attention was iVolke's:



I really like the idea of a Dragon/Steel/Fairy core for Battle Tree. Misty Terrain seems amazing, because I cannot even count the number of times I've lost a long streak to Sleep, Para or Confusion hax. I'm mostly indecisive about Fini's set, and choosing between Specs or Scarf, or even a different item althogether to be able to use Haze. Also, I'm unsure between Dragon Claw and Outrage for Dragonite. Any thoughts?

As others have said, Outrage for sure. Early in the tree it probably won't make a difference because you have plenty of +3 or more set up opportunities. Later in the tree I struggled even squeezing in +1, so the extra power of Outrage was needed. Never had issues with being locked in.

Fini needs Scarf for sure. That or you need to find a better way to deal with Air Slash Tornadus leads. Would have lost at 47 for sure if it wasn't for Fini being faster to avoid the flinch hax that got Dragonite 3 times in a row. Switched out to keep him alive and took out Tornadus with Ice Beam. Thundrus came after and had to sack Fini to weaken him enough for Aegislash to KO with Shadow Sneak. Switch stalled Terrakion out of EQ to be able to safely boost Aegislash for the Sacred Sword OHKO.

I agree that Outrage is a no-brainer for this set, but room for EV optimization? Not really. I'm all too familiar with this build, having used it extensively in the ORAS Battle Maison to great success. Mind you, I haven't thoroughly looked at every new Battle Tree mon, but I can see a fair few Maison sets have made a return; glad to see the horror-inducing Walrein4 crossover to this generation. (Btw guys, since I see a number of you using bulky Nite already, give a shoutout to the original creator turskain should you continue to use it in the future, he'd probably appreciate that!)

Nite hits 186 Speed at +1 which is respectable enough, the beauty of this set is its ability to accrue multiple boosts in many situations thanks to solid bulk, Multiscale + Roost. Which is why I'd advise against tweaking the EVs too much, and you should always pair Nite with a Steel-type, imo SD Aegislash is hands down the best man for the job. You'll find it's not uncommon to completely switch-stall a threat out of all of its EdgeQuake PP, just so Nite/Aegi can setup safely, and that will happen multiple times if you're looking to maintain a sizeable streak, like 500+. Adamant/Brave were equally viable for XY/ORAS at least, but looking at the Tree's Speed tier list, you might opt for Brave so you can avoid awkward ties with the cluttered 80 Speed group.

I meant to get a longer streak before posting the team. All credit for Dragonite goes to turskain. I took the set from the Maison thread. The set does indeed provide a lot of set up opportunities normally missed. Looking at it more, the only new Pokemon between 186 and 198 (+1 at 252 Spe) is Ribombee-1&2 at 193. You can stay in on 2 and boost while it sets up dual screens, but you should probably switch on 1 to avoid Stun Spore. Salazzle falls just short of +1 Dragonite at only 185.

I agree about pairing with a Steel as well. As I mentioned above, I stalled out EdgeQuake a few times to win.

This Aegislash(also copied from Maison thread) runs 79 Speed, so no worries about tying with the 80 Speed group. However, I'm not sure this is optimum for Battle Tree, but I have not had a chance to look at it myself. I remember part of the reason for the 79 Speed was to outrun Regice and avoid paralysis, but a quick switch to Fini and back, will afford another set up opportunity without paralysis woes. Minimum speed would have been useful many times when I had to risk another Swords Dance to ensure a OHKO on a slower opponent without having to worry about taking a hit in Blade form.

Sorry, I thought I saw a 252/252/4 spread
for Nite and must have mistaken it for another post. Tapu Fini's EVs are something that has a lot to improve on, though. With Scarf, outspeeding Weavile is enough, but I'm unsure of bulk benchmarks that I want to hit.
Also, being a Maison veteran, I'm no stranger to switch-stalling. In fact, I'm surprised at how little switch-stalling I need to do with this team.

I don't think Fini needs much improvement either. Weavile is not much concern as it doesn't damage Fini too much and eats a OHKO from Moonblast, but I do like to be faster than Aerodactyl who will cause trouble for Dragonite/Aegislash if one of them happens to be KO'ed. You need 134 Speed before Scarf to do that. You can also take out Jolteon with a guaranteed 2HKO with Moonblast if you're faster as even Thunder will only 2HKO Fini. I don't know if any Crobat carry Air Slash, but good to be faster here too if any of the sets do. Modest 252 Spe puts you at 137, so at best you can move 24 EV somewhere else. I don't know how the game rounds, but 137 puts you at 205.5 after Scarf. Rounding up lets you just beat Manectric-3 and Lopunny-3/4, or tie if it rounds down.