Battle Tree Discussion and Records

When I run across an Electric type attacker A-Muk absorbs the blow fairly well, though I will say that the weird thing is against AI poison types, they can't figure out what to do. Its probably just a fluke so far, so I can understand needing a way around any issues that rise up.

You are right though, EQ will likely annihilate me, as I had too many issues with an EP Hydreigon at one point. Thanks for the tip! I'll try and find a suitable cover Mon and test it out.
 
When I run across an Electric type attacker A-Muk absorbs the blow fairly well, though I will say that the weird thing is against AI poison types, they can't figure out what to do. Its probably just a fluke so far, so I can understand needing a way around any issues that rise up.

You are right though, EQ will likely annihilate me, as I had too many issues with an EP Hydreigon at one point. Thanks for the tip! I'll try and find a suitable cover Mon and test it out.
I'm curious, how far have you gotten with this team? I agree that it has serious problems, namely EQ and low speed, but I bet you could still crack 50 with it.
 
I'm training a Toxapex for a future Battle Tree experiment, and given it's a 3v3 format... would Baneful Bunker be a better option than Toxic here? Not sure if one has enough time to deal as much passive damage as on a 6v6 format.
 
I'm training a Toxapex for a future Battle Tree experiment, and given it's a 3v3 format... would Baneful Bunker be a better option than Toxic here? Not sure if one has enough time to deal as much passive damage as on a 6v6 format.
I think they are still hashing that out in the singles, but I take the side of No-Bunker. Toxic or even Toxic Spikes helps you take down many of the tanks and walls than just protect with a chance to Poison.
 
I'm training a Toxapex for a future Battle Tree experiment, and given it's a 3v3 format... would Baneful Bunker be a better option than Toxic here? Not sure if one has enough time to deal as much passive damage as on a 6v6 format.
Scald, Toxic, Recover, Haze is standard for a good reason. Without Toxic you're hard pressed for stalling; Water Absorb or Storm Drain users completely wall your idea because they never have to contact you in order to avoid getting poisoned. Bear in mind that Toxapex's general job is just to weaken threats so something stronger can manage a sweep, not flat out eliminate mons.
 
Good to see that at least I made the right choice in not having it learn the move :P

Now, I have my doubts about the item. Been trying to get a Black Sludge just to not spend BP on Leftovers (Munchlax refuses to appear) or a Rocky Helmet... and even with a Compound Eyes lead that Black Sludge does not come up >.<

(It does not help that wild Trubbish inexplicably carry Silk Scarves instead of Black Sludge now)

For the meanwhile... could a damage-halving berry be a fine choice? I'm thinking of Wacan...

Forget it, I tried without Compound Eyes (was planning for a SOS Chain with a Weavile until Thief got an item) and I found a Black Sludge on the first try. Same thing happened with a Thick Club. My luck is weird, I guess.
 
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Quick question: what's the fastest user of a OHKO move? How much speed investment would neutral-natured Tapu Fini or Tapu Bulu need to outspeed it, if they can outspeed it at all?
 
IIRC the fastest OHKO user this gen is still Pinsir Set 4 which holds a Choice Scarf, who will not be outsped by Fini or Bulu without running a heavily suboptimal spread/item.

Next fastest is Dugtrio (Set 2) and Landorus (Set 1) who also cannot be outsped by those two under ideal circumstances. For that matter, a number of the OHKO users have higher base speed than Bulu in particular, but there's still some really slow shit like Vikavolt, Snorlax, Abomasnow and so on. Consult the links in the OP; it's pretty informative.

Edit: I have a question of my own: those who have fought Glalie4 (holds mega stone) given its moveset, is it safe to assume it's going to detonate itself immediately more often than not?
 
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turskain

activated its Quick Claw!
is a Community Contributor
Edit: I have a question of my own: those who have fought Glalie4 (holds mega stone) given its moveset, is it safe to assume it's going to detonate itself immediately more often than not?
I've seen it use Protect before exploding in Doubles.
 
Just a quick suggestion, as Burn Damage is nerfed to only 1/16th of your health, and that Guts cancels out the attack drop while still giving the boost, a Flame Orb would be a straight upgrade from Toxic Orb.

Other than that, you team looks pretty solid. Only other suggestions I would have would be maybe Mental Herb or Foul Play on Oranguru (Mental Herb prevents Taunt from ruining your moveset, Foul Play might do more damage to threats than uninvested Psychic, although you probably wouldn't use either much anyways.)
Thanks for that Burn tip. And I did use Foul Play before but since it's a Trick Room team, most things hit harder by Foul Play gets outsped and annihilated by CC/Flare Blitz/Z-Draco Meteor or Hyper Voice. Most of the time when Oranguru is forced to attack by itself, it's against something fat that takes very little from Foul Play (Stuff like Shiinotic and Whimsicott are the reason Hariyama uses Poison Jab to eliminate them on sight).

On a side note, after messing around more with the team, the main threats to the team include Reuniclus(the one that doesn't explode turn 1), Nasty Plot Cofragrigus, and Bronzong. I typically focus attacks on them on sight, prioritising beating them before even setting up Trick Room.
 
Hi guys,

I'm new to the forum and pretty new to 'competitive' battling. I've done a little showdown but not done any proper wifi battling. I'm currently using a team for the battle tree which I may need some help with, I've already used some advice from the smogon forums to build it in the first place.

I haven't got too much time to invest in breeding for egg moves and such or finding perfect IVs but I like having good natures where possible. Here is my current single battle team. Could you guys please pick it apart for me and tell me the good points and bad points as well as possible suggestions for better pokes for typing etc.

What I already know: incineroar has random EV distribution due to using him through my play through. Tapu fini has a terrible nature. Anything else apart from these things would be helpful.

First
Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- night slash
- Sacred Sword
- smart strike

Second
Incineroar @ Expert Belt
Ability: Blaze
EVs: Random/Unsure
Gentle Nature
- Leech Life
- Flare Blitz
- Bulk Up
- Darkest Lariat

Third
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: Spa 252 / Speed 252 / 4 HP
Careful Nature
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Moonblast

That's it so far. I've gotten to ~35 straight wins on super single battles.

I'm now currently toying with the idea of replacing Incineroar with another fire Pokemon for that would be good nature and good EVs. Considering turtonator/a-marowak/salazzle but currently not sure what would be the most beneficial to my team

If you could help I'd be very grateful!

Thanks

Dan
(Copied and pasted from my own thread which I accidentally put in the wrong section)

Edit: got a new highest streak of 35. Still looking for suggestions/team improvement
Edit: fixed kartana's Moveset listing
 
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Level 51

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Quick write-up since this isn't a super long streak, I guess:


"Immature poets imitate; mature poets steal; bad poets deface what they take, and good poets make it into something better, or at least something different." - TS Eliot

Thanks to turskain for the original team, which I've been tweaking to various degrees of success. While I didn't manage to break his record as I was hoping, 195 is still a pretty solid streak as far as I'm concerned (it's the second-highest streak I've ever posted). The main change I decided to make was to use Aegislash over Celesteela, since I liked having the Ghost-type coverage to complement Tapu Lele's Psychic / Fairy STABs.

Pheromosa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Lunge
- Low Kick
- Ice Beam
- Protect

UB-02 Bait. While the idea of having Pheromosa is to bait attacks from the AI, it doesn't really work as well as one might expect it to, supposedly a byproduct of an improved AI. The one time I've found the baiting strategy to be of any use is, of course, when Pheromosa is at 1HP. Notably, even though the baiting strategy doesn't really work as the centrepiece of the team anymore, Pheromosa is still a really good lead, with its great Fighting / Ice coverage and also a strong STAB Bug move to put big damage into most (Psychic-type) Trick Room setters so my team doesn't take a big deficit on Turn 1 of the game by going into the twisted dimensions. The ability to psuedo-redirect attacks once Pheromosa is down to its Focus Sash is basically just the icing on the cake.

Tapu Lele @ Psychium Z
Ability: Psychic Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 68 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Substitute
- Protect

Tapu Lele is the bulky nuke for this team. Terrain-boosted Shattered Psyche KOs almost every single Pokemon in the Tree which doesn't resist it, with the exceptions being super bulky things like Suicune or Blissey and flat out dumb sets like Darmanitan-3:

Sassy @ Assault Vest | Psychic | Earthquake | Flare Blitz | Overheat | Def/SpD

Anyway, Lele is great; takes most hits like a champ and puts big damage into things. I'm honestly not really sure how to describe its role on the team or how it functions because apparently after 195 games I'm still not exactly sure myself. Oh well.

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- Volt Switch

Choice Specs Tapu Koko is what turskain had on his original team, so I just went along with it. I appreciated its phenomenal Speed tier throughout most of my games, and although Choice Specs was sometimes quite annoying when I ended up locked into Dazzling Gleam or Thunderbolt against a resist (I had to stall out Landorus-3's EQ late in my streak with Aegislash since Tapu Koko was locked into Thunderbolt), I did enjoy the massive power that it gave. Its Electric STAB also complemented my leads fairly well in the sense that if my leads had trouble handling a Pokemon, Tapu Koko was almost certain to be able to straight up delete them (especially after chip from Pheromosa / Lele). It was, however, the most disposable member of the team; I'm considering trying something like Mega Salamence over it in the future.

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpA / 36 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Wide Guard
- King's Shield

Aegislash was the main change I made over turskain's team, mainly because I didn't want to go get another Celesteela and EV it and stuff, so I just got an Aegislash from a friend. Wide Guard is really nice for this team, since it helps to patch my matchup against Ground-types (essentially just Earthquake) and Best Move In The Game™ Rock Slide. That's really about it. STAB Shadow Ball was also pretty nice for getting big damage onto Psychic types once Pheromosa was down, I guess. Not much to say about this Pokemon, but it does help with the team's overall bulk so it isn't a team of 4 pieces of paper defensively.


Battle #196: My opponent - Golfer Patrick - leads Salamence / Comfey, which is actually pretty annoying since I don't know if Salamence is Salamence-3 (Yache) or Salamence-4 (Mega), so I don't know if Ice Beam gets the OHKO or not. In retrospect, the safe play here is to Protect Pheromosa and Moonblast Salamence, but instead of which I go for the Ice Beam and Shattered Psyche the Comfey, since I figure I can just bring in Tapu Koko to Dazzling Gleam the Salamence into oblivion. I'm punished with (an attack from Comfey) and a Fire Blast from Salamence to knock out Pheromosa, while I take out Comfey in return.

I bring in Tapu Koko, and the opponent brings in Charizard - another annoying decision to make, since Charizard can be either Charizard-3 (Y) or Charizard-4 (X). I decide to take a gamble and go for the Dazzling Gleam + Psychic onto Charizard. I'm not sure why I did this since this is a really bad move in retrospect; the superior play was probably to double into Charizard with a Thunderbolt + Psychic, since a yellow-health Salamence poses less threat to my Aegislash in the back, especially out of sunlight.

As luck would have it, it's Charizard-3, and it sets up the sun. Salamence adds insult to injury by going for the Protect, while Charizard connects its Heat Wave on both my Pokemon, OHKOing Tapu Koko (which caught me rather off-guard). I attempt to Wide Guard with Aegislash to give Tapu Lele a turn to knock out Salamence by presumably protecting my team from Heat Wave, but Salamence just goes straight for a Fire Blast onto Lele, knocking it out. With Aegislash against Charizard-Y and Salamence in the Sun, there's no way I can win.

Unfortunate way to end a streak, but it had to happen; silly misplays on my end and a spot of bad luck with the sets my opponent happened to have. Hindsight is 20/20. I'll be back.
 
I have the following dudes bred/EV-trained/leveled to 50 for Super Singles Battle Tree. I keep getting stuck around the 38-40 mark and was hoping for some suggestions.

Metagross@Metagrossite
Clear Body--->Tough Claws
Jolly, 252 Speed, 252 Attack, 6 HP
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Zen Headbutt
- Agility

Garchomp@Garchompite/Yache Berry/Lum Berry/Rocky Helmet????
Rough Skin--->Sand Force (Ugh)
Jolly, 252 Speed, 252 Attack, 6 HP
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang/Poison Jab
- Swords Dance

Mimikyu@Life Orb/Focus Sash???
Disguise
Jolly, 252 Speed, 252 Attack, 6 HP
- Shadow Claw
- Shadow Sneak
- Play Rough
- Swords Dance

Tapu Koko@Life Orb
Electric Surge
Timid, 252 Speed, 252 Sp. Attack, 6 HP
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- U-Turn

Tapu Fini@Leftovers
Misty Surge
Timid, 252 Speed, 252 Sp. Attack, 6 HP
- Moon Blast
- Ice Beam
- Taunt

Kartana@Focus Sash
Beast Boost
Jolly, 252 Speed, 252 Attack, 6 HP
- Smart Strike
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance

Celesteela@Sitrus Berry
Beast Boost
Adamant, 252 Speed, 252 Attack, 6 HP
- Heavy Slam
- Acrobatics
- Earthquake
- Autotomize

Tapu Koko is pretty amazing until I start hitting the mid 30s or so. I'd like to keep using him because he makes this slog so much faster. Celesteela may seem weird, and definitely not the standard set, but even without Nature or investment in EVs, she can tank a lot, and is actually pretty damn strong. She brings a lot of good immunities and resistances, and after a +Attack Beast Boost, she's hard to take down. Sitrus Berry + Acrobatics is self explanatory. Tapu Fini has been the least useful, but formed the third core of my most used team. She was basically there to soak up special attacks and Taunt has been surprisingly useful. I dropped her for Garchomp after I faced one too many Ferrothorns and felt like I really needed a Fire attack. Garchomp has been awesome, but honestly, I think Garchompite is useless in comparison to Life Orb or something else.

The others are brand new and haven't been used, but are available.

Honestly, I'm more than happy to breed up something new, but I'm just not sure what. I really want to keep using Koko, and I think Mega Metagross seems so scary that he deserves a spot on the team, but those two share some weaknesses and would require something outside of what I've already got prepared to really do well.

At this point, I'm frustrated enough that I might just do Metagross/Koko/Garchomp and go all in on offense and cross my fingers.
 
Hi guys,

I'm new to the forum and pretty new to 'competitive' battling. I've done a little showdown but not done any proper wifi battling. I'm currently using a team for the battle tree which I may need some help with, I've already used some advice from the smogon forums to build it in the first place.

I haven't got too much time to invest in breeding for egg moves and such or finding perfect IVs but I like having good natures where possible. Here is my current single battle team. Could you guys please pick it apart for me and tell me the good points and bad points as well as possible suggestions for better pokes for typing etc.

What I already know: incineroar has random EV distribution due to using him through my play through. Tapu fini has a terrible nature. Anything else apart from these things would be helpful.

First
Kartana @ Life Orb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- night slash
- Sacred Sword
- Night SlashSecond
Incineroar @ Expert Belt
Ability: Blaze
EVs: Random/Unsure
Gentle Nature
- Leech Life
- Flare Blitz
- Bulk Up
- Darkest Lariat

Third
Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: Spa 252 / Speed 252 / 4 HP
Careful Nature
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Moonblast
For Kartana, I'm not sure why you have Night Slash listed twice.
Personally I don't like dark coverage on Kartana, but by no means is it bad.
Example:
Kartana @ Life Orb or Grassium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- X-Scissor
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike









 
Is Mandibuzz any good? Would a Super Singles team of Mega-Metagross/Garchomp/Mandibuzz be any good? All their weaknesses are covered, and I've got the generally accepted trio of 2 set-up sweepers, and a bulky third. Just not sure how viable the buzzard would be.
 
For Kartana, I'm not sure why you have Night Slash listed twice.
Personally I don't like dark coverage on Kartana, but by no means is it bad.
Example:
Kartana @ Life Orb or Grassium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- X-Scissor
- Sacred Sword
- Smart Strike





Thank you for pointing that out!
My last move is Smart strike, edited now. Maybe you're right and switching night slash for x-scissor is a good idea, after all I do have incineroar for dark
 
So I'm looking at every single mon with an OHKO move.
Here's the main ones I think are the worst to deal with.

1.) Pinsir-4 with Guillotine and a Choice Scarf. Hits 225 speed. In perspective, that's 3 points higher than Max-Speed base 150s like M-Alakazam... I'm running Aegislash on my team so I guess it's bearable for me.
2.) Rhyperior-3 with Horn Drill and a Focus Sash. :(
3.) Abomasnow-3 with Sheer Cold and a Focus Sash. :(
4.) Walrein-4 (Self-explanatory-everyone-knows-this-thing) with double OHKO coverage
5.) Dugtrio-2 with Brightpowder and Fissure. Has the possibility of running Sand Veil in conjunction with it using Sandstorm; it's evasion would be 1.375 in total there (so 100% accurate moves would be ~73% accurate against it). Oh, it runs Sub too.
6.) Bastiodon-3. Possible Sturdy to go with Fissure.
7.) Wailord-3 and Wailord-4 trying to out-Fissure Walrein the Supreme.
8.) Landorus-1 with Brightpowder and Fissure. Runs Smack Down too just to be extra fun.

So Quick Claw users with OHKO moves are gone this time around. I'm trying a team similar to R Inanimate's design but with Silvally changes. I like it because it has immunities for 3 out of 4 OHKO moves on top of being able to sweep effectively. Does anyone know exactly when certain OHKO mons start/end appearing in the Tree? Or are they always possible no matter what the streak is?
 

Smuckem

Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
So Quick Claw users with OHKO moves are gone this time around. I'm trying a team similar to R Inanimate's design but with Silvally changes. I like it because it has immunities for 3 out of 4 OHKO moves on top of being able to sweep effectively. Does anyone know exactly when certain OHKO mons start/end appearing in the Tree? Or are they always possible no matter what the streak is?
You looked at all of the OHKO users, right? If any are Set 1, technically you can encounter them at any point in the streak (except for Landorus1, as Legendaries don't pop up until the 40s). Otherwise, given that Dugtrio2 is kinda a Set 3, you won't start encountering any until Battle 21 (when Set 3s start appearing, as off the top of my head all of the non-Legendary ones are Set 3 or 4).

Officially, with one major tweak it would be possible for R's team to be competely immune to OHKO moves...it just would require you being daring enough to run Ice Memory on Silvally...
 
So I'm looking at every single mon with an OHKO move.
Here's the main ones I think are the worst to deal with.

1.) Pinsir-4 with Guillotine and a Choice Scarf. Hits 225 speed. In perspective, that's 3 points higher than Max-Speed base 150s like M-Alakazam... I'm running Aegislash on my team so I guess it's bearable for me.
2.) Rhyperior-3 with Horn Drill and a Focus Sash. :(
3.) Abomasnow-3 with Sheer Cold and a Focus Sash. :(
4.) Walrein-4 (Self-explanatory-everyone-knows-this-thing) with double OHKO coverage
5.) Dugtrio-2 with Brightpowder and Fissure. Has the possibility of running Sand Veil in conjunction with it using Sandstorm; it's evasion would be 1.375 in total there (so 100% accurate moves would be ~73% accurate against it). Oh, it runs Sub too.
6.) Bastiodon-3. Possible Sturdy to go with Fissure.
7.) Wailord-3 and Wailord-4 trying to out-Fissure Walrein the Supreme.
8.) Landorus-1 with Brightpowder and Fissure. Runs Smack Down too just to be extra fun.

So Quick Claw users with OHKO moves are gone this time around. I'm trying a team similar to R Inanimate's design but with Silvally changes. I like it because it has immunities for 3 out of 4 OHKO moves on top of being able to sweep effectively. Does anyone know exactly when certain OHKO mons start/end appearing in the Tree? Or are they always possible no matter what the streak is?
You can run Chansey/Blissey with crippling moves to do the same thing while taking more hits. Either way, you're going to be weak to Salamence taking a critical hit or status on the turn it's brought in, whether it's after Parting Shot or a regular switch. That could happen 400 battles in, but it would more likely happen much sooner.
 
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Smuckem

Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Really really sad that they removed Triple Battles. As I prefer playing fast-paced games, I always loved Triples, and I was really excited to try my old team for this battle facility (especially with Drought Torkoal!!!) but alas I was disappointed. I'll still be trying to challenge my creative limits, though.
I'm curious, when you refer to the "old team", would you use it in all of its stages, or just one stage (i.e. the 'shitmons' one with Torkoal & Megazard-Y, the mono-starters one, the one with ErupTran & Megalie, etc.)?
 
Officially, with one major tweak it would be possible for R's team to be competely immune to OHKO moves...it just would require you being daring enough to run Ice Memory on Silvally...
I did look at all OHKO possibilities and I think those are the scariest for what I'm trying to build with. I should have added the Glalie set on the list too, that's my fault. But no way in hell am I making Silvally an Ice-type I'm too scared for that x).

You can run Chansey/Blissey with crippling moves to do the same thing while taking more hits.
I did consider this but Chansey and Blissey are too slow for my goal. I would need 84 speed EV's for Blissey to handle Walrein-4, and more (124 speed EV's) for Chansey to do the same. And I still want to have some offensive capability especially against the like of mons such as Bisharp, so for now I'm aiming for Silvally as the lead. But I'm still debating. I appreciate the ideas and comments everyone gives.
 

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