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Battle Tree Discussion and Records

Leaderboard updated through here. Feeling some new zeal, since the release of Cameruptite means I can do a flashback run with my Maison doubles team of Dusclops / Aron / Mega Camerupt / Eelektross. Sadly, Pokemon acting in order of their Mega Forme's Speed the turn they Mega Evolve messes with some Sunny Day shenanigans, but I don't anticipate this being a fatal flaw. The bigger issue is that Z-attacks can damage Aron through Protect, which will be irksome. But still gotta try it.

And I still need to finish my other flashback run of Dragonite / Chansey / Mega Slowbro. I'm on the rusty side though, so that may come quickly!

Love seeing the new streaks and new posters! Best of luck with your further Battle Tree endeavors, everyone! (Since I'm about to return to Aron, should that be capitalized "Endeavors?")

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hypno28 said:
I've never played Multi, but wouldn't that effectively just be...playing Doubles?
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Wow, I'm way late on this. Yes, double-DSing is fine, and would fall under the "multi with another human" category.

PikaAbuser said:
My streak in Super Multi with AI just ended at 78. I will post videos of battle when I have wifi.
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Please do post video proof when you can. I like the team and would like to get it added to the leaderboard.
 
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NoCheese, just curious, do you manually type in the numbers (#1 #2 #3) and the links while updating the leaderboard? If so, it sure seems like a huge chore having to update the rank numbers every single time D:
 
Here are some videos for the Super Multi team posted above, post #70 battles.

PA4W-WWWW-WWW7-N4UK

292G-WWWW-WWW7-N4VA



And here is battle #79 where I lost. Ignore the Psychic on Weavile since I knew I had lost by that time and wasn't thinking. I don't know what I could've done different in that battle. The Weavile has a Focus Sash and both his guys outspeed and can OHKO my Latios.

64LG-WWWW-WWW7-N4VY
 
So, in OR I've managed to breed for two excellent Modest Swirlix. My original intention was to create my own Slurpuff4 (the well-noted nemesis of Scythes back at the Maison thread), but with a 6IV hatchling and a second, 5IV 0 Atk hatchling on hand, I now have some flexibility to pursue this from a couple of different angles and get Slurpuff on the overall leaderboards (no one on the Maison thread has ever used it, Lord knows why, and obviously no one on here would be caught dead with it).

In Maison, I will try to copy one of the successful Triples teams there (one I haven't tried yet) and replace of the team members with Slurpuff4: while there's no doubt that the Expert Belt is better suited to plenty of other mons, Slurpuff4 gets plenty of useful coverage and covers offensive holes well enough that teammates can focus a little more on boosting and support moves.

My trouble right now is in Tree; I want to use special attacker Slurpuff, just not sure how to approach it and have no real ideas as to what team to build around it. Anybody got anything for me, or should I just copy Set 4 twice over and bring it over as is?

For reference, Scythes' nemesis looks like:
slurpuff.gif

Slurpuff4 (Slurpuff) (Lvl.50) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sweet Veil/Unburden
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Flamethrower
- Dazzling Gleam
 
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I think Unburden has really good potential as an ability, especially in the tree where speed tiers are really important. Perhaps running it alongside Lele with a psychic seed to immediately activate Unburden? Jolly 212 Spe already outruns Scarf Manectric. Sweet Veil seems like a way inferior ability since you can just run Electric Seed alongside koko for the same effect with the Unburden boost.

My experience with Slurpuff wasn't good :( Like Oricorio, its base stats (both offensive and defensive) are really mediocre and it just doesn't get KOs. I ran Sitrus / Belly Drum for awhile; even then a +6 Play Rough / Drain Punch couldn't guarantee key KOs (particularly on bulky steel types) and I always got KO'd in return. But then again that's a physical set, you may find different results with a special set.
 
kneeshoeshoe said:
NoCheese, just curious, do you manually type in the numbers (#1 #2 #3) and the links while updating the leaderboard? If so, it sure seems like a huge chore having to update the rank numbers every single time D:
Click to expand...

Yup. I do. I've gotten reasonably quick at adding one to every rank number number below that of a new streak, but it still can be a bit grindy, especially adding a new name to near the top of a list. And gets a little longer the bigger the leaderboard gets. But still worth it. And fun to see the lists grow! Finally decided to use the extra reserved post to split the singles and doubles streaks into separate posts, since at the rate we're going, we were liable to hit the max post size cap soon if I kept them combined.
 
kneeshoeshoe said:
I think Unburden has really good potential as an ability, especially in the tree where speed tiers are really important. Perhaps running it alongside Lele with a psychic seed to immediately activate Unburden? Jolly 212 Spe already outruns Scarf Manectric. Sweet Veil seems like a way inferior ability since you can just run Electric Seed alongside koko for the same effect with the Unburden boost.

My experience with Slurpuff wasn't good :( Like Oricorio, its base stats (both offensive and defensive) are really mediocre and it just doesn't get KOs. I ran Sitrus / Belly Drum for awhile; even then a +6 Play Rough / Drain Punch couldn't guarantee key KOs (particularly on bulky steel types) and I always got KO'd in return. But then again that's a physical set, you may find different results with a special set.
Click to expand...

...guess I screwed myself by not having put Unburden on either of these hatchlings, then. Damnit.
Then again, it was never really an option due to the original mother Slurpuff being Sassy Sweet Veil and designed for TR (Unburden obviously is no help there).
Time to get hunting for Jolly Unburden breedjects, then.

Thank you for taking the time to try Slurpuff out, even though your experience was bad, it is something for other Trainers to build off of, and learn, from. At bare minimum, it made me check its Gen VI movepool and notice that it can learn Surf...
 
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While I doubt it'd be any good in the battle tree, Oricorio is surprisingly powerful with life orb - I caught many surprise KO's on Kartana's, Ferrothorn's, Excadrill's and Togedemaru's in the Tiny Tournament with HP Fire with a Timid Max Sp.A Pom-Pom Oricorio.
Revelation dance also 2HKO'd many a Vaporeon, so it could be worth a look...

On a more relevant note, I managed to scout Cynthia with Garchomp-3 and Lucario-3. Building a multis team around it is... interesting given Scarf-Chomps tendency to earthquake everything, but I'll see what I can do.
 
Is Lucario-3 the Mega Lucario?

Mega Charizard-Y with Heat Wave is your friend. For the second spot, something with Levitate, either Azelf, Eelektross, Mismagius, or Rotom-W for not sharing weaknesses with anything thus far.
 
I lost in Single Battles with 102 Wins. I lost partly to misplaying, but I had some lucky moments getting there and all I wanted was 100, so I can't be that upset. Thanks to everyone who gave me suggestions. Without you I wouldn't have thought of Z-Outrage for Salamence or tried Xurkitree.


Speed Boost + Baton Pass + Nuke Mon = I win. That's the idea behind this team. The Pokemon in this team are so overkill that even their names are overkill!


blaziken.gif
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blaziken-mega.gif

Blaziken (KFKA short for "Kentucky Fried Kick-Ass") @ Blazikenite
Ability: Blaze --> Speed Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Low Kick
- Protect
- Baton Pass

For my lead, I needed something with Speed Boost and Baton Pass. Blaziken was chosen over the Bug Type options for being broken. If that isn't a good reason, then I don't know what is. Flare Blitz is used for being reliably powerful and Low Kick for being reliable enough. Even when Low Kick Power 60 and I'm using it, it's Super Effective, which makes it the same power as Flare Blitz without the recoil, and a 2HKO against something that can't do much back. Protect is needed for when you face anything faster than Blaziken. Even with the Adamant Nature, you'll outspeed everything that doesn't have a Choice Scarf and didn't use Dragon Dance while you Protected. In those situations, a Jolly Nature wouldn't help you. Protect is also used in bad match ups for a Speed Boost before Baton Pass. Baton Pass is for passing the Speed Boosts to stupidly powerful Pokemon. I know that's stating the obvious, but I still felt like I had to say what Baton Pass is for. If the opponent used Earthquake when you Protected, Baton Pass to Salamence for a free switch in and KO.

If you saw that Mega-Blaziken has Speed Boost and Baton Pass and thought that's not my plan, then you're stupid as someone who uses Blazikenite just for Speed Boost when they can get a Non-Mega with Speed Boost... wait... Well it's a Shiny Blaziken so that's a pretty good excuse, right?


salamence.gif

Salamence (Apocalypse) @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Double-Edge
- Dragon Dance

For the Pokemon to receive the speed boost my first choice was Salamence. She is hilariously powerful. With Moxie and Dragonium Z, she might be better for this strategy than Mega-Salamence. (I've never used Mega-Salamence on any team, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but keep in mind I said "for this strategy.") The difference between the Attack stats between the Mega and Non-Mega is small and after Aerilate, Return has about the same Power as Outrage. The Downside of Outrage isn't that big when Devastating Drake is used instead. It's a Power 285 Move (with Stab) off of 205 Attack, so not OHKOing something with it is pretty rare. After that the next Pokemon the opponent sends out is a probably a Dragon Resist if they have one. (I say probably because a surprising number of Steel Types were held back. I think it was out of fear of Blaziken.) If they don't have a Dragon resist, then use Outrage. With the Moxie boost, Its power is like using Devastating Drake again! Because of that, I recommenced "wasting" your Z-Move on "extreme overkill" if you can't KO with Earthquake or Double-Edge just to avoid getting locked into Outrage. Few Steel Types can survive Earthquake and KO back. Double-Edge is the best 100 Accuracy Move against Fairies, but if you're using it, it probably means Salamence is going to get killed by a Fairy. Even at +1 Attack, Double-Edge sucks, but I don't think there's a better filler move. Dragon Dance is in case you don't get a Speed Boost Baton Passed to her or you need the Attack Boost for some reason. The Adamant Nature instead of Jolly is used because she outspeeds everything that's unboosted when she has +1 Speed without Jolly. When she doesn't have a speed boost, I'm usually hoping for something to Dragon Dance on or that nothing outspeeds me and I don't think a Jolly nature helps with that too much. (If it does, I'm a lucky noob.)

If you think that Apocalypse is an over the top nickname, I disagree. Few Pokemon are powerful enough to live up to that nickname. This Pokemon lives up to it. Also, Murderpocalypse was too long. :P (I'm not joking. I really wanted to nickname her Murderpocalypse.)


xurkitree.gif

Xurkitree (Coaxial) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Energy Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power (Ground)

Xurkitree is my last team member because I needed someone who could take out Rock, Ground, and Water Types because their coverage of Earthquake and Stone Edge or Surf and Ice Beam are lethal to Blaziken and Salamence. Preferably something that didn't mind an Intimidate Debuff being passed to it. Between Beast Boost and a Special Attack that won't let the possibility of any other stat being buffed by Beast Boost happen, Xurkitree felt like a good choice. Thunderbolt kills things. 'nuf said. Energy Ball kills things that are immune to Thunderbolt. 'nuf said. Dazzling Gleam is very badly needed for Dragons. Dragons that know Dragon Dance will end your run if you don't have Dazzling Gleam. Hidden Power Ice is not powerful enough for Haxours, so it's not considered. I'm not really sure why I used Hidden Power Ground. I guess it was for Pokemon with Lightning Rod, but I'd probably be better off with Signal Beam to hit Grass types, especially Grass/Poison ones which resist everything else, or Nature Power (Tri Attack) to also hit Rotom-Heat. The Focus Sash is used because not because of Xurkitree's "weak defenses," (83/71/71 defenses are good enough that the Sash has only been used two or three times) but as an emergency way to stop an opponents sweep after a Dragon Dance or Choice Scarf KO. It's niche, but it's proven more useful than a Life Orb. Don't believe me? check out Battle 99. The KOs it lost by giving up the Life Orb were to Pokemon that couldn't KO back anyway. I used a Modest nature because Timid doesn't let you outspeed everything at +1 Speed, the extra power is needed without a Life Orb, and Modest still outspeeds everything that doesn't have Speed EVs when you don't have a Speed Boost.

If you're wondering what Coaxial means and how Xurkitree lives up to that name, it's a type of copper wire. No edgy overkill name here. :P


Battle Videos:

Battle 94: VZXG-WWWW-WWW7-NKBG
For those who hate the Minimize Blissey, this battle video is for you. At first it looks like BS with Mud Bomb getting Accuracy Drops on Blaziken, but after I switched to Salamence, the opponent switched it out for something that could survive a +0 Devastating Drake... on the turn I used Dragon Dance. The rest of the battle was pure Karma. When the Blissey came back at the end, it was annihilated by a +3 Outrage.

Battle 99: 8DUW-WWWW-WWW7-NKB6
Explosion Metagross always KOs something... Dragon Dance Haxours? Blaziken's dead, but Xurkitree's Focus Sash finally does something! Now I have 1 Pokemon left with 1 HP and they have... Skarmory... -_- It didn't have Sturdy! :D

Battle 103: MQUG-WWWW-WWW7-NKBL
What I should have done is switch to Xurkitree after Blaziken was KOed and KO back with Energy Ball instead of switch to Salamence and hope I could set up two Dragon Dances. As I found out when I did a mock Battle out of curiosity, out Blaziken could have survived Scarf Terrakion's Earthquake with 2 HP and Cobalion had a chance of not using Quick Attack. I did another Mock Battle after that and found out that Cobalion could survive Salamence's +1 Earthquake and counter with Metal Burst. This battle was a coin flip.


Thanks checking out my team, or as I like to think of it, "the team of that one insane guy who somehow got 100 wins using Blazikenite just for Speed Boost and thinking that Normal Salamence is better than Mega-Salamence."
 
PikaAbuser said:
Is Lucario-3 the Mega Lucario?

Mega Charizard-Y with Heat Wave is your friend. For the second spot, something with Levitate, either Azelf, Eelektross, Mismagius, or Rotom-W for not sharing weaknesses with anything thus far.
Click to expand...

My vote goes with Mismagius or Azelf--in Multis with AI, an offensive approach is even more encouraged than normal for non-Singles formats, and having some speedy 'mons to fill this role is important. I like the aforementioned Electrics, but Eelektross is just not powerful enough to make up for the loss of speed, and while Rotom in all Formes has its merits, I'm just biased against it due to how much Wash was used in the Maison thread.

I will admit that I'm pretty biased towards the other two: Mismagius has been only used extensively by one Trainer ever for leaderboard purposes, and Azelf has virtually disappeared from usage since its glory days on the Frontier leaderboard (and a few appearances on the Subway leaderboard). I'm just pulling for a surprise appearance and a comeback this Gen, respectively...
 
I managed to scout this Cynthia on battle 40 of a doubles run, so I was quite pleased :).
I'm considering it good luck that Garchomp-3 is the first sent out, but being restricted to Flying-types and Pokémon with either the Telepathy/Levitate abilities is frustrating either way.

PikaAbuser said:
Is Lucario-3 the Mega Lucario?

Mega Charizard-Y with Heat Wave is your friend. For the second spot, something with Levitate, either Azelf, Eelektross, Mismagius, or Rotom-W for not sharing weaknesses with anything thus far.
Click to expand...
Lucario-3 is the Mega Lucario. :)

Thanks for the suggestions, though I'll admit that I'm not sure about Mega Charizard-Y - Heat Wave does have reasonable accuracy, but there's always a chance it could miss... I'm more inclined to go Flamethrower to avoid problems.

Smuckem said:
My vote goes with Mismagius or Azelf--in Multis with AI, an offensive approach is even more encouraged than normal for non-Singles formats, and having some speedy 'mons to fill this role is important. I like the aforementioned Electrics, but Eelektross is just not powerful enough to make up for the loss of speed, and while Rotom in all Formes has its merits, I'm just biased against it due to how much Wash was used in the Maison thread.

I will admit that I'm pretty biased towards the other two: Mismagius has been only used extensively by one Trainer ever for leaderboard purposes, and Azelf has virtually disappeared from usage since its glory days on the Frontier leaderboard (and a few appearances on the Subway leaderboard). I'm just pulling for a surprise appearance and a comeback this Gen, respectively...
Click to expand...
Mismagius and Azelf are interesting as you say, due to speed and power (much as I like Eelektross, I do acknowledge that it's a bit too slow and lacks much power).

I do have a plan I'm just about ready to try, but I may have to rework given the ideas here. Thank you both. :)
 
You can also run grass types who just resist Ground with the scarfchomp, though that'd mean doubling into ice weakness.
It's also worth knowing that Gardevoir has access to Telepathy and complements Garchomp very well being a strong spatker with wide coverage.

As for Oricorio... the issue with Oricorio in B-tree is that it's a flying type, and in order to benefit from Quiver Dance, you are going to double into 2x or even 4x Rock weakness, with rock slide being a extremely common coverage on btree you are at huge risk of being randomly deleted. Dragon Dance users do not double into rock, but double into ice weakness instead (or still into rock in the case of m-Chari X), adding the other issue of +attack not doing a whole lot to Oricorio's set.

CTNC I'm glad you managed to find a way to make the M-Blazi + double Moxie work!
Honestly expecially when it comes to single, I really think that using Z-move to proc a Moxie effect istantly is likely the *best* way to use it, expecially when talking of something like Salamence who isn't exactly Pheromosa-level bulk.
Have you considered running Aerial Ace instead of Double Edge on Salamence? 100% accuracy will guarantee KO on Lax Incense/Bright power shenenigans, and with stab+possible supereffective should be a legitimate way to deal with stuff that ends up resisting BOTH dragon stab and ground coverage .
 
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Worldie said:
CTNC I'm glad you managed to find a way to make the M-Blazi + double Moxie work!
Honestly expecially when it comes to single, I really think that using Z-move to proc a Moxie effect istantly is likely the *best* way to use it, expecially when talking of something like Salamence who isn't exactly Pheromosa-level bulk.
Have you considered running Aerial Ace instead of Double Edge on Salamence? 100% accuracy will guarantee KO on Lax Incense/Bright power shenenigans, and with stab+possible supereffective should be a legitimate way to deal with stuff that ends up resisting BOTH dragon stab and ground coverage .
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Thanks! :D

I view Devastating Drake as my way past Double Team because Z-Moves can't miss and once I start with that I don't think once I start any user of that move can survive long enough to set up. As for Bright Powder, I probably wouldn't see it coming. Aerial Ace is only power 90 with Stab compared to Double-Edge's 120 so it sounds like a downgrade, but Double-Edge isn't doing it's job anyway, so... Okay, why not? It sounds like trading something practically useless for something potentially better than practically useless!
 
I am a fan of having a nevermiss move *somewhere* in the team, expecially if it gets a coverage slot that otherwise has no real use. Z-moves do the job... once, and assuming they score the 1hko. An enemy comp can feature multiple double team or accuracy drop or other stuff like that so i like to have * the option * to guarantee scoring that final KO.

As for Aerial Ace... If i'm not incorrect, the only pokes that would resist both dragon and ground are fairy/grass and steel/fly, the first are going to get the supereffective bonus raising to 180 power (thus, beating the 120 and without any drawback), and the latter (which is basically just Skarmory and levitate Bronzong) you don't want to be using Salamence against anyway considering your Blaziken and Xurki should both easily massacre them.
You also get a nifty option to get a 4x stab on fight/grass (Breelom, Chesnaught), and a 180 power hit that doesn't lock you into it against the various grass, bug and fight types.

All in all, it looks like a win/win to me over Double Edge.

In fact this look so good i'm giving Aerial Ace to my own Salamence, lol.
 
Lest you think I've been completely neglecting my own streaks, Dragonite / Blissey / Mega Slowbro just hit 300. Humorously, while Dragonite sweeps are pretty rare in the Tree compared to the Maison (and indeed, as I've noted earlier, I suspect the Jolly Green Giant is a suboptimal lead for the Blissey / Slowbro core in the Tree), the 300th win was a classic Dance twice then sweep against Mallow. But even if Dragonite isn't ideal, Mega Slowbro is no joke. Aegislash isn't the only good playmate for Chansey!

The video for battle 300 is at MDVG-WWWW-WWW7-Z8NY, but besides being a bit of a callback to Dragonite's Maison glory days, it's nothing exciting.

Also, kind of embarrassed to admit that I somehow missed that the AI still has trouble correctly valuing the expected damage from multi attack moves. I dreaded lead Mega Heracross this whole streak, and then when it finally showed up, it opened with Close Combat instead of Rock Blast. Mwa Ha Ha! Sadly, I forgot to save the video, but I assume others have seen this issue and so can verify?
 
hi, i really need an answer on this one. for anyone using "antrainment" durant i have 2 questions.

how do you deal with protect users?
sometimes theAI seems to be intelligent enough to protect every 2nd turn but sometimes they stall me out with protect for like 2 or 3 of my turns and then not use it again? real strange.

how do you deal with mimikyu?
theres not a single team that doesnt have at least 1 kryptonite pokemon and this one happens to be the cliche crusty sock puppet that i see on every wifi battle team. i genuinely wanted to walk out of a skyrise window after i lost to one after trying to entrainment with and without disguise up.

i really need to know desperately. cheers
 
Darth_Scorpion said:
I managed to scout this Cynthia on battle 40 of a doubles run, so I was quite pleased :).
I'm considering it good luck that Garchomp-3 is the first sent out, but being restricted to Flying-types and Pokémon with either the Telepathy/Levitate abilities is frustrating either way.

Lucario-3 is the Mega Lucario. :)

Thanks for the suggestions, though I'll admit that I'm not sure about Mega Charizard-Y - Heat Wave does have reasonable accuracy, but there's always a chance it could miss... I'm more inclined to go Flamethrower to avoid problems.

Mismagius and Azelf are interesting as you say, due to speed and power (much as I like Eelektross, I do acknowledge that it's a bit too slow and lacks much power).

I do have a plan I'm just about ready to try, but I may have to rework given the ideas here. Thank you both. :)
Click to expand...

Heat Wave is there to combo with Earthquake to wipe the board in one turn. Sucks that when it misses, but at least it will always hit one opponent, lol.

I have not tried this, but maybe Azelf with Future Sight and Psychium Z as a nuke? Could be fun.
 
The Great Roydinho said:
hi, i really need an answer on this one. for anyone using "antrainment" durant i have 2 questions.

how do you deal with protect users?
sometimes theAI seems to be intelligent enough to protect every 2nd turn but sometimes they stall me out with protect for like 2 or 3 of my turns and then not use it again? real strange.

how do you deal with mimikyu?
theres not a single team that doesnt have at least 1 kryptonite pokemon and this one happens to be the cliche crusty sock puppet that i see on every wifi battle team. i genuinely wanted to walk out of a skyrise window after i lost to one after trying to entrainment with and without disguise up.

i really need to know desperately. cheers
Click to expand...

AI protecting in singles doesnt really seem like an issue to me, they're basically wasting their turn... Edit: My bad, misinterpreted the issue.

The top singles streak on the leaderboard runs a Red Card Mimikyu. The idea is to switch Durant out for the red card user when there's something that cant be entrained. Not just opposing Mimikyu, but Wishiwashi, Komala, Minior etc. and maybe other stuff that isn't safe to use Entrainment on.

A roar/whirlwind user also works at the cost of a move slot and being at -6 priority, but probably not worth using it over Red Card.
 
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kneeshoeshoe said:
AI protecting in singles doesnt really seem like an issue to me, they're basically wasting their turn...
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the point. Durant's ability is Truant with this setup, which usually doesn't matter as Entrainment goes off first, but if the enemy uses Protect then Durant loafs the next turn and lets the enemy use a free attack. If the AI is smart enough to keep up the pattern of Protect-Attack-Protect-Attack etc, then Durant can die without ever getting off Entrainment and then you're down a Pokémon.
 
Altissimo said:
I think you're missing the point. Durant's ability is Truant with this setup, which usually doesn't matter as Entrainment goes off first, but if the enemy uses Protect then Durant loafs the next turn and lets the enemy use a free attack. If the AI is smart enough to keep up the pattern of Protect-Attack-Protect-Attack etc, then Durant can die without ever getting off Entrainment and then you're down a Pokémon.
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I encountered a trainer with a Kingdra that did just this. Mimikyu with Red Card saved the day (GGUnit's team) as it brought something out I could entrain shortly after - it is a huge risk with this sort of team though.
 
kneeshoeshoe said:
AI protecting in singles doesnt really seem like an issue to me, they're basically wasting their turn... Edit: My bad, misinterpreted the issue.

The top singles streak on the leaderboard runs a Red Card Mimikyu. The idea is to switch Durant out for the red card user when there's something that cant be entrained. Not just opposing Mimikyu, but Wishiwashi, Komala, Minior etc. and maybe other stuff that isn't safe to use Entrainment on.

A roar/whirlwind user also works at the cost of a move slot and being at -6 priority, but probably not worth using it over Red Card.
Click to expand...

aaah ok that makes sense. my team i was using was durant, mega garchomp, blaziken. i simply entrained, switched to blaziken and transferred stat boosts to garchomp. i guess i could swap the mega stone for a red card since mega garchomp has a useless ability on this team. my worry is things like mimikyu play rough or wishiwashi ice beam wiping out garchomp before i can set up which is a big concern since the other 2 pokemon are useless without him. i was thinking maybe gyarados or another pokemon instead of garchomp OR swap focus sash on blaziken (i dont really need it anyway) and give it a red card and more bulk. any comments on changes would be appreciated
 
Mimikyu red card seems to be the best idea because it will guaranteed survive due to disguise, then force the opponent out with red card, hopefully into something durant CAN entrain (Mimikyu doesn't have to survive this opponent, just get durant in safely, entrain, durant faints). A good third partner would be either the aforementioned blaziken (Swords Dance/Protect/Fire move/Fighting move) or Gyarados-Mega (Crunch/Dragon Dance/Substitute/Protect). Gyarados-Mega works well with substitute because crunch hits quite a lot well (only fears 4x resists such as scrafty, pangoro, etc. Substitute works well to block quick claw ohko hax, as well as survivors' attacks)
 
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