Battle Tree Discussion and Records

Very nice. Is Choice Band on Bruxish necessary over Life Orb? With Psychic Terrain, "only" an LO boost would already give Psychic Fangs more power than Mega Medicham without the lock-in.
Honestly I think Life Orb might turn out to be a better choice. I had LO Bruxish on a different team I used previously that also abused Psychic Terrain and it seemed to work fine; I think Band helps put a little more power behind Crunch, but I may just be fixating on one event where Banded Crunch was barely able to 2HKO. Bruxish is frail enough to ignore the LO recoil anyway, so perhaps I'll try it out.
 

Smuckem

Resident Facility Bot Wannabe
is a Community Contributor
That's OK lol, I wasn't really looking for my own team to be discussed, I was more questioning kneeshoeshoe about his.
Welcome back Call_Me_Charlie .... Smuckem will be glad to see you back.... I think he missed you lol!
That's not saying much...I miss EVERYBODY who posted in the Maison thread with any regularity and doesn't anymore. I miss HeadsILoseTailsYouWin and VaporeonIce and FrigidKitsune and JT Hitman and I could go on and on. Shit, I miss you and Altissimo posting, and both of you already post here! (semi-regularly, but you do it.)

With that said, the boss getting back on the saddle and C_M_C scoring major success does this old heart much good. I feel giddy now--when older Trainers get back to facility-busting, it gives all of the other old Trainers some hope that they can turn back the clock and do the same.

With this streak, no matter where he ends up, Charlie will end up occupying a spot on the Top 10 in the Doubles leaderboard. This is Step 1 of what I hope will be a chain reaction:
- the more people that get on the Doubles leaderboard, the better the odds that I will eventually be knocked off The Top 10 of said leaderboard. I'm praying that this momentum builds and I do get knocked off at some point--all you other muthafuckas are slacking, step up and get up there!
- the farther down I get pushed, the more overall activity this indicates on the thread, which is kind of the point I suppose
- The more activity on the thread, the bigger the community we will have ready to tackle the USUM Tree once that monstrosity sprouts
- Side benefit: the bigger the community that is ready, the better the odds that the rest of the old guard--some of those folks I miss and many others--will stand up, take notice, and come back to join in the aforementioned future fight (and the present one, maybe)

So yeah, hope and faith all that...not that I have to hope for everybody indicated...you'll be back up there eventually, I'm sure of that.

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The QR3 has been updated through here. kneeshoeshoe, I have tentatively named your team "The Silver Karp", if you come up with anything better let me know. Also added is a side project by Josh C., something he will have ready for when the Sharkanine and its monmumental 2000-win streak finally falls (if you have a better name for it than "T2R", please let me know as well). CHECK IT~!
 
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I would think that in a moment where Band does not get you a 1hko, you are just putting yourself in a very horrible position of having a move-locked frail Pokemon that can still be killed or revenge killed back without getting any realistic benefit from the Choice item.

But then, I'm quite known for being against Choice items in b-tree doubles, to begin with. I always consider LO and Z-moves a way less risky option, for this concern.
 

Eisenherz

επέκεινα της ουσίας
is a Smogon Social Media Contributor
So, I started a new streak and for the first time, I'm using Wide Guard on my team. So far, it's been really helpful, but I was wondering, how does the AI handle Wide Guard in the Tree? For example, if the opposing Pokémon is spamming Rock Slide (or is locked into it) and I use Wide Guard once, will they keep trying as if nothing happened, or will they switch it up (or switch out if they're choiced)? Is there even a consistent response to it?
 
Having nearly always used Wide Guard in my latest comps, I can say that the AI does not seemb to play around Wide Guard. I've witnessed multiple times the likes of repeated Surf/Earthquake into WG, and even explosions into it.
The AI also does not seemb to want to swap pokemon that only have Spread moves either: I distinctly remember facing a Rotom set which only had spread moves (Rotom-Frost i believe) which remained on field despite all his moves being blocked by WG.
 
So, I started a new streak and for the first time, I'm using Wide Guard on my team. So far, it's been really helpful, but I was wondering, how does the AI handle Wide Guard in the Tree? For example, if the opposing Pokémon is spamming Rock Slide (or is locked into it) and I use Wide Guard once, will they keep trying as if nothing happened, or will they switch it up (or switch out if they're choiced)? Is there even a consistent response to it?
From what I've seen, they don't notice Wide Guard. I've been able to PP stall moves like Heat Wave and Earthquake with Aegislash because of it.
 
Well, I'm not sure if we're doing the Hall of Fame thing like we did in the Maison, but I've gotten my stamp for winning 50 battles in Super Multi (finally). While continuing my Doubles streak I was able to scout an amazing trainer and decided to go for the stamp to take a break from Doubles, which had again gotten a little repetitive. I got the stamp with Ace Trainer Levi.

My Team

Niv-Mizzet (Charizard) (F) Charizardite Y
Timid / Blaze -> Drought
IVs: 31/xx/31/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
  • Flamethrower
  • Solar Beam
  • Dragon Pulse
  • Focus Blast
Fan Bearer (Shiftry) (F) Focus sash
Adamant / Chlorophyll
IVs: 31/31/xx/31/31/31
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
  • Fake Out
  • Leaf Blade
  • Knock Off
  • Low Kick

AI's Team

Typhlosion (M) Choice Scarf
Modest / Blaze
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spe
  • Eruption
  • Focus Blast
  • Flamethrower
  • Extrasensory
Blaziken (M) @Blazikenite
Adamant / Blaze -> Speed Boost
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
  • Night Slash
  • Flare Blitz
  • Stone Edge
  • Brave Bird

The reason this team works so well is because the AI only really needs to do one thing, and it's usually its best option: spam Eruption. Typhlosion outspeeds most of the Tree and does heavy damage, especially in the sunlight that Charizard provides (Mega Evolution means it beats out weather abilities that trigger first turn). I find here that Choice Scarf is actually a benefit as it makes my partner predictable. Charizard supports by clearing things that might not immediately fall to a spread Eruption, and has a decent Speed to back up its massive literal firepower. Flamethrower for accuracy and Solar Beam as an answer to Water-types, especially Water/Rock types and Jellicent, who could turn the tables with Trick Room. The last two moveslots were tougher as I considered Air Slash and Protect, but I felt that Dragon Pulse was necessary for things like Kingdra, Dragonite, and Mega Ampharos, whom I otherwise did not have good answers for. Focus Blast was not used but was there as a panic button for Heatran.

As a backup, Blaziken did not come out often but did its job well when it appeared. Opponents were usually already weakened and so it had no trouble killing one and then nabbing a Speed Boost bonus; though its moveset is funky and I really wish it had Low Kick or at least Sky Uppercut, a Sun-boosted Flare Blitz still proved devastating. Shiftry came in under sunlight to outspeed everything; if it came out together with Blaziken, a Fake Out could usually help it get a speed boost, while the other moves were standard STAB and coverage, with Dark and Fighting being very much appreciated.

Again, the best thing about this strategy is that AI will pretty reliably use Eruption, only faltering when it runs out of PP. I don't think it realizes abilities, strangely enough, as one time it used Eruption on a Flash Fire opponent twice in a row even though it was the only opponent left (I believe it was Houndoom). Also, if it does run out of PP, the switch out can be pretty annoying. However, most of the time the AI did its job incredibly well. I really got lucky with this scout; even the abilities were right. Typhlosion didn't really need Flash Fire, and Blaze gave it more oomph when firing off slightly weaker Eruptions. In addition, the presence of Blaze on all starters initially make Trace not much of a problem. Besides manual weather setters (which sometimes make Charizard switch out and back in if necessary), the team struggles with little.


Somehow I managed to take a photo of the moment I got the stamp but forgot to actually save the Battle Video. But hey, it's better to have my stupid moments when I'm not battling, right? Battle 50 was pretty simple, Eruption and Solar Beam cleared out an opposing Alakazam and Lapras turn 1; the same moves helped to take down Mega Aerodactyl and Blastoise within the next three turns.

Overall I'm very satisfied with this team's performance. To be honest, I may not return to Doubles until this streak ends or I get bored, but we'll see which comes first. As always, feel free to leave comments!
 
I've lost one of my 70+ streaks to that Scarf Eruption Thyplosion. It's devastating (not as much as the equivalent Entei version, but still).

Overally, bruteforce is the best thing to beat Multis and doubles anyway.

Random: Focus blast is something i'd *REALLY* replace. Protect, Heat wave, Air Slash, all look like better options for your M-Chari. 70% hitrate is just horrible for B-tree, and it doesnt actually add any coverage to a Fire+Grass combo outside of against Heatran. (Heatran which expecially if scarfed would anyway give horrible issues to your combos if he ever shows up, as you are relying on the AI to use and hit focus blast into hit, which it actually might not as there's the high chance it'd go for Eruption anyway which will get absorbed)
 
Are there any rules for/against leaderboarding in multi battles with yourself (via two 3DS systems and two games)? Just curious on that.

For my main question, are there any combos/strategies that are more effective (or possible to begin with) while teaming up with yourself? Plus, I like the idea of earning double BP regardless of leaderboards (which I'm really not too concerned with atm).
 
Are there any rules for/against leaderboarding in multi battles with yourself (via two 3DS systems and two games)? Just curious on that.

For my main question, are there any combos/strategies that are more effective (or possible to begin with) while teaming up with yourself? Plus, I like the idea of earning double BP regardless of leaderboards (which I'm really not too concerned with atm).
Yeah you can team up with yourself via 2 systems. When you do that you can use double megas and z-moves, but each of your Pokémon can only switch into one other.
 
As far as I remind, we agreed at some point that multis with a partner/yourself that is not AI simply have a separate leaderboard but nothing else.

The main differences as mentioned for multis is that the item/mega/z/species clauses are player related. This means you can have same item, use a mega each, a Z move each, even have 2 identical pokemon if you wish.
But so can the enemy, obviously, and as mentioned, you only have 1 poke in the back each, meaning that if either of the players loses both pokemon, the other is left in a 1v2 scenario even if it has both pokemon alive.

This also turns in the fact that Multis reward EVEN MORE hyperaggression. If you can nuke down 2 enemy pokes of same AI in a row, the other AI is left 1v2ing making the match significantly easier otherwise.
Setupping, Moxie-like passives and things like that are way ineffective, even more than they are in standard doubles, obviously.

Ideally you want to build in a way that your 2 pokes either are safe switchin of each other (cough aegimence), or cover the other player's pokes each other.
Like, I have played with AI Anabel who had scarfchomp lead which is one of the best you can get, and paired with Levitate and Telepathy users to reach 50 in multis.
 
After many prayers from Smuckem it finally happened: on my way to 50s with the newly polished Scraft's Room (tm) comp, I finally run into Veteran Xio, the fairy specialist, which sports the Florges-2. Yes, the double terrain one.

I have bothered to actually update the replay because this is a piece of art you people cannot miss.

The focus is not really on my play, I played it super safe to scout sets and did some math to check if Florges or Aromatisse sets could 1hko my lead, and since it was a Fairy specialist, I was originally keen in just leaving Scrafty to die due to it being in 1hko or 2hko range of basically the entire trainer set.

Instead we can witness the AI of Florges-2 deciding that it can't decide which terrain it likes. In fact, it just literally only alternates terrains for the entire match, including once left 1v2.
To add to the hilariousness, when Sylveon comes, it was just a matter of time when they, as predicted in between Discord memes, attempt to setup the terrain at same time.

I also recruited the trainer for science.

Here's the code if you want to witness it, or mock battle the comp: it's Florges-2, Aromatisse-4, Togekiss-34, Sylveon-1

PJSW-WWWW-WWW7-TWLL
 
Are there any rules for/against leaderboarding in multi battles with yourself (via two 3DS systems and two games)? Just curious on that.

For my main question, are there any combos/strategies that are more effective (or possible to begin with) while teaming up with yourself? Plus, I like the idea of earning double BP regardless of leaderboards (which I'm really not too concerned with atm).
I think part of the challenge of Super Multi is to try to build a team around the AI's team while trying to predict what your partner will do and act accordingly, multi battle with yourself eliminates that challenge, making it just an easier version of doubles. So personally, I consider getting a long streak multi battling with yourself not much of an accomplishment.

As far as strategy is concerned. Just Z-move OHKO an opponent's Pokemon, when that opponent brings out his second Pokemon, use your other Pokemon to Z-move that one too. Then proceed to 2 on 1 beatdown.
 
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I've started trying for the Starf Berry in Battle Tree Doubles. (Reward for 200+ wins) I had a stupid amount of success in the Mansion Triples with "Burn the World" Sun Spam, so I decided to try something similar in Doubles. Although few things can survive Sun Spam, it doesn't KO enough for it to work in Doubles. Also, Scarf Garchomp is a thing now. Rain seemed like the obvious replacement, but I didn't really like the speed of the Drizzle Pokemon and it was a little weaker than sun. The Terrains had the "shiny new toy" factor, so I checked them out. Misty doesn't boost Fairy moves... Next! Psychic has nice power, but it's way too weak for a type that can't hit both opponents. Grass has options so powerful that I don't mind only one target, but I'm iffy on Tapu Bulu's Speed and how much resists Grass. Electric starts off weaker than Sun, but it can snowball with Lightning Rod and Discharge. It looked interesting.
Ground is immune to Electric, but after facing Flash Fire Pokemon like Heatran with Sun Spam, I figured I could play around that weakness. Although he doesn't benefit from Electric Terrain, Mega-Sceptile does have Lightning Rod and enough power to look good even without a spread move. Raichu could support with Fake Out and both the Classic and Alolan Forms looked very useful... Why do they have to count as the same Pokemon?

I've gotten a bit over a hundred wins with Electric Spam, but this team is far from perfect. I'm going to need some advice.

Edit: I've rage quit this team. I'll try it again if someone suggests a really interesting idea. I'm tired of loosing to random BS. Not good stuff, just random BS. I've been defeated because of Scarf Tsareena and Z-Grassy Terrain Exeggutor on a Mono Grass Team, Rotom Frost twice, Focus Sash Metal Burst Rhyperior twice, and a Crabominable under Trick Room using Ice Hammer on Tapu Koko instead of the x4 weak Mega Sceptile while it used Detect! That last one was the one that cost me the streak of over 100 and the most BS, so with all due respect to Crabominable, F*** YOU!

Now that I've ranted, it's team brewing time.

P.S. To Crabominable or anyone who likes it, I hold grudges and Crabominable is ugly, so don't expect an apology for the "F*** YOU!" Ever.


The Team that got me past 100


Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
- (Unused Filler)

If you're using Electric Spam without Tapu Koko, you're doing things wrong.

Tapu Koko has a very nice Base 130 Speed and an okay Base 95 Special Attack being used for a Power 80 Spread move. That may sound kind of weak for something that you plan on spamming, but Stab, Choice Specs, and Electric Terrain let him hit hard. Unfortunately, a Life Orb doesn't let him hit hard enough for me. Too many missed 2HKOs... I don't feel like the Choice Specs get in the way too much, partly because I want to be spamming one move most of the time and partly because Tapu Koko is never my last man standing. You don't want a last man standing that's locked into a move that some Pokemon are immune to. When both of the opponent's Pokemon resist Discharge or the opponent is Wally, Dazzling Gleam is probably the better move. Sceptile hits hard without a Lightning Rod boost anyway. I use Grass Knot only if the opponent leads with two Ground Types and even then, I probably won't. The last move would be Hidden Power if I felt like soft resetting for it. It's not worth going for it because I know I'd never use it.


-->

Sceptile @ Septilite
Ability: Overgrow --> Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Energy Ball
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power (Steel)
- Detect

I thought Mega Sceptile would be good. I didn't know how good. Between Lightning Rod and an amazing for this team Offensive Typing, it's like he was literately made for Electric Spam. Base 145 Speed may sound too high for taking a Discharge before attacking, but it's perfect if you use a Modest Nature. The speed hit is just below Base 130 Speed Pokemon, like Tapu Koko, but above everything else that's slower than Base 130s. I'd say that Energy Ball and Dragon Pulse are "just" reliable Stab Moves, but they're powerful enough that they're more like kill buttons. Giga Drain may seem like a good alternative to Energy Ball, but the loss of power will make you miss out on a few KOs and the healing never enough to be worth it. Detect is Protect with half the Power Points, but more than twice the style. You won't need Protect more than 8 times in a battle, so I went with style.

I believe Hidden Power is better than every other move Sceptile gets. Quick Attack doesn't deal enough damage to be useful, Nature Power (Thunderbolt) can't be aimed, Focus Blast is more often called Focus Miss, Hyper Beam is awesome as it is unusable, and Giga Drain never got used when used with Energy Ball. That's all five other attack options that are even remotely close to good. (He doesn't even get Sludge Bomb) Hidden Power Steel was chosen over any sane alternative because I never felt like Sceptile needed to hit Steel types. They were ether do nothing tanks, were KOed by Discharge and one of Sceptile's attacks, or a not so threatening in between. Hitting Fairies that resist Grass felt way more important, especially ones that resist Electric too like Whimsicott and Mega Altaria which are used by Dexio and Wally respectively. Hidden Power Poison sounds more useful because Whimsicott is x4 weak to it, but the IVs needed for it aren't worth going for. (Steel can be done with just an imperfect Special Defense IV. Poison needs you to go out of your way so much for it.)




Xurkitree @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Discharge
- Energy Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power (Ground)

There's not much to say about Xurkitree. Discharge + Base 173 Special Attack + Electric Terrain = Dead opponents. I haven't used any other move with Xurkitree. Dazzling Gleam might be worth using if you know you can get a Beast Boost from it, but keep in mind that Manectric needs Lightning Rod boosts. Energy Ball and Hidden Power are for if I really need something dead and it won't be KOed by a spread move.

I'm not sure how good Xurkitree is for this team. He's slow enough to need a Choice Scarf which gets in the way against Ground Types, but when I'm using Alolan Raichu instead, I miss Xurkitee's power.



Manectric @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Flamethrower
- Hidden Power (Ice)
- Protect

I think this is the first time someone on this thread has used Manectric. It's not that surprising because he needs Mega Evolution or a Lightning Rod Boost to do any real damage. I usually send him out when Sceptile is KOed or going to be targeted by an Ice move after using Detect. Manectric is going to use Discharge a lot. If you haven't figured that out by the time you read this, this team is too complicated for you. Flamethrower is neutral coverage for hitting Electric Types, but I also use it as an attack that doesn't hit my other Pokemon if I can still score a KO. Hidden Power Ice is used for Ground Types and Dragons, but for some reason I never seem to have to use it...



Other Pokemon I've tried


Raichu @ Psychium Z
Ability: Surge Surfer
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Discharge
- Psychic
- Hidden Power (Ice)
- Fake Out

Obvious choice with Electric Terrain is obvious. Alolan Raichu's Power is below average and I like how Classic Raichu looks more, but the insane speed is very nice because threats to this team include most things that outspeed Tapu Koko. The scariest being Garchomp, Terrakion, and Landours when they have a Scarf. That said, Surge Surfer and an uninvested Speed stat are enough to outspeed everything that isn't boosted by Swift Swim or Chlorophyll, so I maxed out HP instead. It doesn't do much, but it does more than max Speed would. Discharge is Discharge and Psychic is a Secondary Stab for whenever I need it. Fake Out is a very nice move. Sometimes you need something to die and sometimes that something is faster than the thing that can KO it. That's what Fake Out is for. Hidden Power Ice is for x4 weak Pokemon... in theory. Pokemon that survive include Mega Salamence, Garchomp, and Landours. Psychium Z is used because Manectric already had a Life Orb and Raichu really needed the boost against Electric resists.



Raichu @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power (Ice)
- Fake Out

Classic Raichu, like Manectric has Lightning Rod and below average power before Lightning Rod. Manectric has slightly higher Special Attack and a more powerful coverage move, but Raichu has slightly higher Speed and Fake Out. The only reason I didn't try Raichu at first was because it meant going for Hidden Power Ice on Omega Ruby.

I'm thinking that Raichu might be the better of the two.


Threats

Most things with Base 130+ Speed: For some reason they're not just annoying because they're fast, but most of them are threats to Tapu Koko or Sceptile.

Choice Scarf: Most Scarf Pokemon have a Ground Type Move.

Trick Room: Noticing a pattern? I don't like going second.

Special Tanks: Actually, those aren't a problem because I can just gain power with Discharge and Lightning Rod.


Thanks for checking out my team and please let me know if you have any ideas... I mean ideas other than "Don't use three Electric types" because that's pretty obvious.
 
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I think part of the challenge of Super Multi is to try to build a team around the AI's team while trying to predict what your partner will do and act accordingly, multi battle with yourself eliminates that challenge, making it just an easier version of doubles. So personally, I consider getting a long streak multi battling with yourself not much of an accomplishment.

As far as strategy is concerned. Just Z-move OHKO an opponent's Pokemon, when that opponent brings out his second Pokemon, use your other Pokemon to Z-move that one too. Then proceed to 2 on 1 beatdown.
I was more referring to the Multi battle leaderboard that involves two people (which can be just as easily strategized as one person on two systems).
 
Alright, Im new here, and I would ask you one thing

But firstly, my winning streak was few over 60
The team was for singles, and I had:

Garchomp (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Iron Head
- Crunch

Chandelure (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick

Salamence-Mega (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Not too good, I know
And yes, they were genned as well by a friend, so it probably doesn't count


But I want to ask what do you think would compliment this teme for BT Doubles:

Gardevoir-Mega (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Telepathy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic
- Energy Ball
- Protect

Garchomp (M) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Zapdos @ Life Orb
Ability: Static
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Volt Switch
- Tailwind
- Protect

I need to cover ice types, and Scizor, Bisharp and Machamp came into my mind (Machamp would have scarf most likely, he's so damn slow he would barely outspeed the rest of the team)
Any suggestions?
 
I need to cover ice types, and Scizor, Bisharp and Machamp came into my mind (Machamp would have scarf most likely, he's so damn slow he would barely outspeed the rest of the team)
Any suggestions?
Machamp is too slow to use a Scarf well. Having Base 110 Speed Pokemon outspeed you is pathetic for a Scarf Pokemon, which is pathetic for a Scarfed Pokemon. Itemless Terrakion has about the same Power and Speed as Scarf Machamp, but also gets Stab Rock Slide. Using a Choice Scarf feels even worse when your Zapdos knows Tailwind.

Also, Welcome to Smogon
 
Alright, Im new here, and I would ask you one thing

But firstly, my winning streak was few over 60
The team was for singles, and I had:

Garchomp (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Iron Head
- Crunch

Chandelure (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Shadow Ball
- Energy Ball
- Trick

Salamence-Mega (F) @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Not too good, I know
And yes, they were genned as well by a friend, so it probably doesn't count


But I want to ask what do you think would compliment this teme for BT Doubles:

Gardevoir-Mega (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Telepathy
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psychic
- Energy Ball
- Protect

Garchomp (M) @ Groundium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Slide
- Protect

Zapdos @ Life Orb
Ability: Static
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Discharge
- Volt Switch
- Tailwind
- Protect

I need to cover ice types, and Scizor, Bisharp and Machamp came into my mind (Machamp would have scarf most likely, he's so damn slow he would barely outspeed the rest of the team)
Any suggestions?
You know that gardevoir changes ability when she mega evolves to pixilate so she would get hit by earthquake/discharge.... I'm guessing from how you've put the team up that part of your strategy was to take advantage of telepathy ability and spread moves?
Welcome to smogon :)
 
If anything, you should start with Zapdos and Garchomp since they are immune to each other's spread moves. Garchomp can learn Stone Edge and hold Rockium Z to combat ice types. Your 3rd and 4th Pokemon should also combat ice types to discourage the AI keep on counterteaming you with them. So instead of using Mega Gardevoir, maybe use Mega Gallade. Celesteela would be another good option.
 
CTNC - Yeah, I should've thaught about that speed more
I didnt know Terrakion was this lightning fast, I will probably go with him

Marowak2000 - At first, I just liked how Gardevoir and Garchomp looked together, and then I remembered it can have Telepathy, and later I chose Zapdos because of how it can spam spread moves along with Garchomp

PikaAbuser - My team was, as I said, built around these two because I really liked the combination (telepathy, beauty and the beast reference, Dragon x fairy combo, etc) but i will reconsider that, maybe using regular Gallade as the last member? It still has decent speed (+ scarf) and a great attack, and access to Stone edge/Rock slide
As for the Rockium Z, wouldnt I regret missing on the stab Z move?
 
I would not consider stone edge / rock slide coverage as a good answer for Ice types. Since they are inaccurate, you are prone to eventually be rngd down with a team that is mostly made of squishys (garde and gallade themselves aren't exactly the bulkyest pokes around).
Though, missing on stab on Garchomp Z-move isn't a big deal as you will still be mostly using the Z-move to 1hko, pretty much any relevant flying or ice type that you want to nuke down is squishy and will be 1hkod by Z-stone edge from Garchomp.

If anything you could include fire coverage. Levitate users (Z-fire Rotom-H forms), for one are a valid plan.
Fighting stab coverage is also a good plan as it has the added perk of resisting Rock which Zapdos is weak to and will likely attract rock slide / stone edge from the AI.

Due to the nature of your "core", you are prone to double into certain weaknesses, and since most of them are spread, you could add a Wide Guard user in your comp. I'm known for abusing Alomomola and Regigigas for this purpose, but there's other valid options.... Like, (M)Gallade himself, or even Hitmontop if you want to role compress.

If you are looking for a pure utility 4th, I think Hitmontop is your best plan. For example, you could use the set I have banked (for science as it hasn't fit any of my comp right now), which is Impish, Sitrus, Intimidate, Helping Hand, Wide Guard, Fake out, Bullet Punch. (My choice of Bullet Punch over Mach Punch was because fighting type can be immuned against by ghost types, and the only reason to have a priority move on a 100% utility poke is to pick up KO on sash / sturdy / endure users, which do feature a handful ghost pokemon like Gengar and Froslass, and having priority you can also use it to beat the AI in using Destiny Bond with Prankster (M-banette finesse)
 
Hey everyone, new guy here and posting a current streak of 500 wins in super singles; also here to give thanks and credit to
iVolke for sharing his awesome team and to Lassi for inspiring me to use a team that doesn't involve intimidates and stalling
strategies (for the most part anyways, I'll explain in a bit). The team has awesome typing synergy that allows you to pivot
out of unfavorable match-ups (most of the time) and with the right play, battles end relatively quickly, usually by M-Scizor if he
can set up on the lead mon. After that he just sweeps the rest of the team barring fire types and fire type coverage moves (again,
most of the time). I made some tweaks to the team and the changes has served me well so far in the run. Here's the team:

Garchomp (F) ("Hilda") @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Same chomp as iVolke's. D-Drake nukes flying and levitate mons while not having to worry about half damage from misty
terrain by not being grounded. Sub to setup on passive mons by avoiding status and also useful for scouting sets especially
ones that may potentially carry Explosion or ohko moves. Outrage and Earthquake for dual stab to deal as much damage as
possible and with D-Drake not have to worry about confusion from Outrage, although for a one time usage only which can be
annoying if the opponent protects, but otherwise Garchomp's best move to counter mons she can't setup on. SD to setup and
take note usually only one SD is needed because at +2, Garchomp ohkos most mons in the tree even after using up her z move.
4 def allows Garchomp to set up 4 subs although there wasn't really a need to so far. I found Rough Skin extremely useful
for breaking focus sash and for chip damage in general.

Scizor-Mega (M) ("Iron Man") @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Brutal Swing
- Bullet Punch

I went for maximum HP and SpD investment since there are a lot of strong moves (both physical and special) in the tree that
M-Scizor has to tank; stuff like Hydro Pump, Focus Blast, Stone Edge, Earthquake, Explosion, Thunder, etc. especially since he
usually takes hits while in non Mega form via switch-in, and considering he's the only one in the team with access to recovery in
Roost. Max HP maximizes Roost recovery which is important because I consider potential crits to be M-Scizor's main weakness when
he's setting up especially against faster mons. He's also prone to potential stat drops from secondary effects of moves so it's crucial
M-Scizor doesn't spend too much turns setting up before koing a mon; meaning he doesn't have to set up to +6 every time, either
because he's facing an offensive mon or because of potential secondary effects and sometimes both. Thanks to Roost, he can often
times stall out those strong 5 pp moves and even 10 pp moves via pp max, giving Roost 16 pp in total and he can safely setup after
that. I forgot to mention attack boosting items like Choice Band/Specs and Life Orb that M-Scizor usually has to take care of. Bullet
Punch for Technician and stab boosted priority move which makes up for it being the slowest member of the team and just rips through
opponents at +6.

Now the main change is Brutal Swing over U-Turn (or Brick Break from Lassi's team). I went for Brutal Swing because of its great neutral
coverage while actually benefiting from technician boost (it has exactly 60 base power), giving it a total of 90 basepower. It also counters
bulky Ghost and Psychic types and in hindsight makes Scizor an anti-TR mon by countering Fairy, Psychic, and Ghost types; all of which are
known to be the types of all TR users, usually 2hkoing them at +2 while stalling out TR using SD. Brutal Swing also counters some offensive
threats, like ohkoing M-Alaka, Gengar, and guaranteeing at least 2hkos on all Azelf sets except Azelf-4 which is guaranteed ohko and oh yeah,
also has Fire Blast lol.


Tapu Fini ("Tapu Fini") @ Choice Specs
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Spe / 252 SpA
Timid Nature
- Moonblast
- Surf
- Grass Knot
- Confide

I didn't give her a nickname because Tapu Fini already sounds like a nickname to me. You might notice that I chose a (somewhat)
opposite version of iVolke's set item and nature for Fini, going with Choice Specs instead of Choice Scarf and Timid instead of Modest.
The main reason behind this is because I wanted a bulky Fini that can take hits, even super effective ones if she has to, and it is possible
with max HP investment. Choice Specs balances out the lack of SpA boosting nature and allows full HP investment since she doesn't care
about outspeeding everyone. I went for Timid because with Specs, she doesn't really need the extra power most of the time on the mons
she checks; I guess except for M-Garchomp which guarantees a ohko with Modest Fini but take note M-Garchomp outspeeds Modest Fini
so I'd rather take that 75% chance for ohko using a Timid set (252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp-
Mega: 204-242 (94.8 - 112.5%) -- 75% chance to OHKO). A Timid set also outspeeds certain threats such as most Rotom sets and checks
stuff like all Excadrill sets, Incineroar-3, and as mentioned M-Garchomp. I also noticed that Modest Fini misses out on some important
guaranteed ohkos against legends such as Latios-3,4 and Latias-3. Choice Specs with Timid nature fixes this while still outspeeding a good
half of the battle tree.

If you guys want to try out this team for yourselves, Modest is also a viable option but just watch out for the threats that outspeed her.
Misty Surge for anti status and a mandatory switch in against ice moves targeted on Garchomp to avoid that 10% freeze chance on M-Scizor.
Moonblast and Surf as obligatory dual stab, Grass Knot hits bulky water types most notably 2hkoing all Suicune sets and ohking quadruple grass
weak mons such as Barbaracle, Carracosta, Gastrodon, and M-Swampert. The last moveslot is Confide instead of Ice Beam because of this one
battle against M-Audino lead around battle 230 where I nearly lost. The only reason I won was because of a SpA drop from spamming Moonblast
on M-Audino and because M-Audino decided to spam draining kiss after only 2 Calm Minds. Anymore than that and I probably would have lost.
I didn't save a video because I nearly had a heart attack after the battle and it was then I realized, the team wasn't exactly perfect and I had to
find a way to counter it (btw M-Audino has flamethrower so M-Scizor is a no-go). The answer was Confide in order to bring it down to -6 SpA
and sweep with Garchomp (Yep you heard that right, using Garchomp to setup and sweep against M-Audino). Tapu Fini is bulky enough to
run Confide and bring M-Audino down to -6 SpA without dying and the idea was, switch-in to Garchomp, setup one SD, then 2hko with EQ.
I have a video of it later and was literally the only battle during the whole streak so far that I was able to use Confide on the same M-Audino lead
which I encountered for the second time at battle 447. Take note this isn't full-proof because worst case scenario, M-Audino pulls of a double
crit on Garchomp, but that's way better than hoping for a crit and SpA drop on M-Audino from Moonblast spamming Fini lol.

Anyways, Ice Beam was the least used move with Fini, notably ohkoing quadruple ice weak mons such as Landorus, Gliscor, and dragon
pseudo-legends such as Salamence, Garchomp, and Dragonite, as well as countering legends such as Tornadus, Thundurus, and Zapdos.
It's not guaranteed ohko, unfortunately, and ideally Fini shouldn't even be facing the latter two. Moonblast already counters said dragon
pseudo-legends and Surf already ohkos all Gliscor sets and Landorus sets except Landorus-1 (252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Fini Surf vs. 0
HP / 252+ SpD Landorus: 156-186 (95.1 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO). There are a few other threats besides M-Audino that I
planned to use Confide on but I'll mention them later in the threat list (Yep, I'm also writing a threat list aside from a relatively long write up
for a first time poster lol. Pretty sure I'm mentioning stuff iVolke has already mentioned in his original post but I'd also like to share my experiences
and stuff I learned in the tree; considering a new guy posting a big streak, some may find it dubious at first, so I should at least sound like I know what
I'm talking about haha jk). Here's the threat list.


Threat List:

Audino-3 (Mega): No surprise and the first actual threat the team has faced during the run. Confide up to -6 and for some reason it stops using
Calm Mind after reaching +6 in SpD, which is nice. Switch to Garchomp and 2hko with +2 EQ.

Cofagrigus-3 and Jellicent-3: Both have Will-O-Wisp and TR. Switch to Fini and Confide up to -6 while stalling out TR. Don't mind the burn when Misty Terrain
runs out. Switch to M-Scizor the turn before TR runs out to avoid burn and hit with Brutal Swing because it seems the AI will prioritize TR over Will-O-Wisp.
Brutal Swing will do about half damage. Switch to Fini and spam Confide, this time only to stall out the second TR and for when Cofagrigus-3 starts spamming
Destiny Bond after being left with about half health. For Jellicent-3, Water Spout should run out of PP and would either spam Recover or switch out, which
is not so ideal but leaves Jellicent-3 pretty much harmless. Again, switch to M-Scizor the turn before TR runs out and finish off with Brutal Swing (watch out for Destiny Bond Cofagrigus-3 if it still has pp for it). Haven't actually gotten the chance to try it on them so I'm just theorymonning for these two.

Ohko moves and Lax Incense/Bright Powder mons: Not just a threat to this team but to all teams in general but that's also why Garchomp has D-Drake and Sub. Special mention to Dugtrio-2; being the fastest ohko move user in the tree. My approach is to D-Drake immediately to bypass Bright Powder miss and so far I've seen it use either Fissure or Sandstorm turn 1 so just hope it doesn't Sub lol.

Salazzle: Poison/Fire typing that immediately threatens two-thirds of the team especially with this non-Scarf Fini variant. Best play is to let Garchomp take
the Fake-out in order to break a potential sash from Salazzle-3. Finish of with EQ and if it's Salazzle-4, Garchomp has a 50% chance of moving first thanks to
their speed tie at 169 Spe. Take note Garchomp survives non crit Dragon Pulse from Salazzle-4 so it's important he stays healthy if this guy comes out.

Strong Attackers (Choice items/Life Orb): Best bet is to switch to M-Scizor and keep using Roost to stay healthy and stall out those 5 or 10 pp moves. SD plus
Roost combo is perfect against stuff that deals less than 50% max damage to M-Scizor and is slower than him. Against faster mons, M-Scizor would have to
take a hit on the switch and another hit before roosting up so it's important M-Scizor keeps his health up by using Roost often. An extreme example would be
Slaking-3 lead holding Choice Band. Turn 1, switch to M-Scizor on Giga Impact, which deals about 70-80% damage to its non Mega form, and then Roost. Slaking recharges while Roost heals up to 70% health at least and in Mega form, use Roost again. At this point, just hope it doesn't crit because M-Scizor survives non crit Giga Impact, dealing about 50-60% damage and that wouldn't be a good time for a crit when you're at 70% health lol. So basically watch out for crits when using M-Scizor.

TR teams: M-Scizor counters most of them so use SD to stall out TR.


Some Battle Videos:

Battle No. 200 vs. Plumeria: PRAG-WWWW-WWW7-C3ZM

Battle No. 300 vs. Cynthia: QZJG-WWWW-WWW7-G3B3

Battle No. 400 vs. Grimsley: DGAW-WWWW-WWW7-GL23

Battle No. 500 vs. Cynthia: BNCW-WWWW-WWW7-YURZ

Battle No. 447 vs. Scientist Tivon: C2UW-WWWW-WWW7-JA7H

- I was so excited that it actually worked that I totally forgot about the potential Sturdy Carbink and paid for it, sadly. M-Scizor cleans up and takes care of Bronzong.


Closing Notes:

Personally, I think that the special trainers you meet every ten battles is basically a free win for me due to how few, and therefore, how easily predictable
their sets are, especially against people like Wally, carrying only 4 mons with 2 sets each lol. I saved these battles videos because I consider them as
"benchmark wins" for every 100th battle after unlocking Starf berry at 200. Battle-wise, they aren't too special but the more interesting battles, I did mention
in the threat list and shows how to deal with them accordingly. I'll be taking a break for a while and maybe work on something for doubles. Again, I would like
to thank iVolke for sharing his awesome team and also I definitely recommend this team to everyone and see for themselves how good it really is and since you
guys made it this far, thanks for reading!
Streak ended at 507 wins against Thamina. Lost due to misplay but it was a really close battle that boiled down to RNG, though it could have been avoided with a better play.

Battle No. 508 vs. Thamina: JHAG-WWWW-WWW7-UFUJ

Switched to Fini on lead Starmie to avoid potential freeze Ice Beam and was able to setup to +6 with M-Scizor right off the bat. Salazzle-3/4 comes out and I think if I should switch or not. At +6, M-Scizor OHKOs Salazzle-4 but Salazzle-3 survives with Focus Sash. Decided to take the risk for a chance of taking out potential Salazzle-4 and because I didn't want to risk tanking a potential Inferno Overdrive on Fini. If it were Salazzle-3, that would also be a problem because prior Ice Beam damage left Fini with 158 HP plus switch-in Fire Blast damage, that would put Fini in KO range with Sludge Bomb (at least 43% chance KO with minimum Fire Blast damage). 252 SpA Salazzle Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 114-134 (64.4 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (114, 114, 116, 116, 120, 120, 120, 122, 122, 126, 126, 128, 128, 132, 132, 134). Turns out to be Salazzle-3 but M-Scizor breaks the sash at least. I probably acted hastily in wanting to get rid of 1 HP Salazzle by bringing in Garchomp, but then Fini would have to take heavy damage before taking down Salazzle while Garchomp can take a hit, the only downside is a potential burn, which didn't seem too bad with only one mon remaining and with Garchomp and Tapu Fini at relatively high health. Again, I was wrong because after that semi-expected burn, Raikou comes out and at first, I knew the burn wouldn't bother too much because Garchomp 2HKOs Raikou-1,2,3 but of course, the annoying Raikou-4 comes out instead and uses reflect, turning what should've been a 2HKO into well, more than that. At the back of my head, I knew Fini would be my last resort because Fini survives non crit Thunder at full HP (252 SpA Raikou Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 138-164 (77.9 - 92.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(138, 140, 140, 144, 144, 146, 150, 150, 152, 152, 156, 156, 158, 158, 162, 164)), but then I forgot about the Ice Beam damage from Starmie which basically reduced my non crit survival rate from 100% down to 75%. Garchomp dies leaving Raikou with around 25% health left and at this point it all came down to whether Fini survives Thunder or not. Sadly, the RNG wasn't in my favor this time around and takes out Fini. Not to mention Thunder's 70% accuracy which could have also missed lol. I guess I should've switched to Fini after M-Scizor died then switched to Garchomp just to avoid the burn, but at the time I didn't want Garchomp to take extra damage especially since I sacced one teammate already (which is not my usual play unless it's a tough match-up). Well overall, it was a tough battle that lacked a better play but I'm happy to have gone this far into the tree since this my first time playing in a battle facility. As for doubles, I'm currently trying out Koko + Raichu combo and I'll post again if I can reach at least 200 wins. Again, thanks for reading.
 
What is here the general opinion on genning?
It is generally looked down upon. Many of the more veteran players here spend time entrenched in breeding projects to get the right Hidden Power IVs, shininess, etc. so if you can at all avoid genning, do so. Of course, there's no way to know if people are really hacking their Pokemon (even legal hacks), which makes it even more transparent that this thread relies a great deal on trust. And if you do spend time trying to find your Pokemon instead of creating them, it makes your team and your streak feel that much more your own. If you gen Pokemon, that shouldn't stop you from posting here for advice about teams and strategies (assuming you aren't cheating more than that, such as creating save-states, etc.), but keep in mind that your streaks are automatically ineligible for the leaderboard.
 

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