Resource BDSP OM Megathread

in the hills

spreading confusion
is a Site Content Manageris an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
OM Leader
BDSP oms.png

(art by in the hills)
Welcome to the BDSP OM Megathread! This thread is a place to discuss and share ideas for BDSP Other Metagames. For the time being, we will only feature BDSP Balanced Hackmons, STABmons, and Almost Any Ability in this thread, but will expand it as needed in the future.

Useful links:
BDSP Data Dumps
Lost Moves in BDSP
BDSP Pure Hackmons

Frequently Asked Questions
Q
: Why isn't BDSP the main metagame for gen 8?
A: There's currently no compatibility between Sword & Shield and BDSP, so it is treated as an entirely separate entity from gen 8. Read our post about the decision here.

Q: Why did Pure Hackmons move to BDSP? Why does it have its own thread?
A: There were a number of game-breaking exploits found within SS Pure Hackmons, so it was decided that the future of the tier belonged in BDSP. It received its own thread due to no SS version of the metagame existing.

Q: What about BDSP Mix and Mega?
A: Since Mega Stones are not in the game code for BDSP, we decided not to continue Mix and Mega into BDSP.

Q: Will these formats be available on the main Pokemon Showdown! server?
A: Short answer; no. We'll be sticking to SS formats for the forseeable future, though it is possible for a BDSP OM to be chosen as Leader's Choice of the Month. They will also be available through tour and challenge codes.

Q: How do we submit ideas for BDSP OMs?
A: We currently aren't taking submissions for any metagames that will solely be in BDSP. Once this thread is open to more metagames, you can reach out to one of the Forum Moderators (Ransei, Sectonia, drampa's grandpa, Think, Kris, in the hills) about adding a BDSP version of an existing metagame to the thread, subject to approval.
 
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a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
BDSP Balanced Hackmons
:ss/dialga::ss/arceus::ss/palkia:
Banlist
Clauses:
OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, Team Preview, HP Percentage Mod, Cancel Mod, Sleep Moves Clause, Endless Battle Clause

Bans:
Pokemon
:shedinja:Shedinja

Abilities
Arena Trap
Contrary
Gorilla Tactics
Huge Power
Illusion
Innards Out
Intrepid Sword
Magnet Pull
Moody
Neutralizing Gas
Parental Bond
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Stakeout
Water Bubble
Wonder Guard
Comatose + Sleep Talk

Moves
Shell Smash

Sample Teams
:regigigas::arceus-fairy::blissey::dialga::ho-oh::giratina: Regigigas Bulky Offense by XxSevagxX
Tournament Ruleset
/tour new bdsppurehackmons, elim,,,[BDSP] Balanced Hackmons
/tour ruleset OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, Endless Battle Clause, -Arena Trap, -Contrary, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Magnet Pull, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, -Shell Smash, -Shedinja

/tour setautostart #
/tour setautodq #

Challenge Ruleset
/challenge [user], bdsppurehackmons@@@OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, Endless Battle Clause, -Arena Trap, -Contrary, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Magnet Pull, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, Shedinja, -Shell Smash


Council
a loser
Nihilslave
Quantum Tesseract
quojova
TTTech
 
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in the hills

spreading confusion
is a Site Content Manageris an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
OM Leader
BDSP Almost Any Ability
:ss/snorlax::ss/garchomp:
Banlist
Clauses:

Obtainable, !Obtainable Abilities, Species Clause, Nickname Clause, 2 Ability Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Team Preview, HP Percentage Mod, Cancel Mod, Sleep Moves Clause, Endless Battle Clause

Bans:
Pokemon
:arceus: Arceus
:darkrai: Darkrai
:dialga: Dialga
:giratina: Giratina
:giratina-origin: Giratina-Origin
:groudon: Groudon
:ho-oh: Ho-Oh
:kyogre: Kyogre
:lugia: Lugia
:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:palkia: Palkia
:rayquaza: Rayquaza
:regigigas: Regigigas
:shaymin-sky: Shaymin-Sky
:shedinja: Shedinja
:slaking: Slaking

Abilities
Arena Trap
Comatose
Contrary
Fluffy
Fur Coat
Gorilla Tactics
Huge Power
Ice Scales
Illusion
Imposter
Innards Out
Intrepid Sword
Libero
Magnet Pull
Moody
Neutralizing Gas
Parental Bond
Protean
Pure Power
Shadow Tag
Simple
Stakeout
Speed Boost
Water Bubble
Wonder Guard

Moves
Baton Pass

Items
:kings rock: King's Rock
:razor fang: Razor Fang

Sample Teams
:gengar::heatran::snorlax::mew::dragonite::porygon-z: Dual Sheer Force Offense by Ransei
:aerodactyl::alakazam::dragonite::skarmory::snorlax::garchomp: Flyspam Hyper Offense by Ransei
Tournament Ruleset
/tour new bdspubers, elim,,,[BDSP] Almost Any Ability
/tour ruleset !Obtainable Abilities, 2 Ability Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, !Sleep Clause Mod, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Magnet Pull, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Speed Boost, -Simple, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Baton Pass, -King's Rock, -Razor Fang, -Arceus, -Darkrai, -Dialga, -Giratina, -Giratina-Origin, -Groudon, -Ho-Oh, -Kyogre, -Lugia, -Mewtwo, -Palkia, -Rayquaza, -Regigigas, -Shaymin-Sky, -Shedinja, -Slaking

/tour setautostart #
/tour setautodq #

Challenge Ruleset
/challenge [user], bdspubers@@@ !Obtainable Abilities, 2 Ability Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, !Sleep Clause Mod, -Arena Trap, -Comatose, -Contrary, -Fluffy, -Fur Coat, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Ice Scales, -Illusion, -Imposter, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Libero, -Magnet Pull, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Protean, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Simple, -Speed Boost, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Baton Pass, -King's Rock, -Razor Fang, -Arceus, -Darkrai, -Dialga, -Giratina, -Giratina-Origin, -Groudon, -Ho-Oh, -Kyogre, -Lugia, -Mewtwo, -Palkia, -Rayquaza, -Regigigas, -Shaymin-Sky, -Shedinja, -Slaking
 
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in the hills

spreading confusion
is a Site Content Manageris an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Simulator Moderator
OM Leader
BDSP STABmons
:ss/rotom-wash::ss/dragonite:
Banlist
Clauses:
STABmons Move Legality, Species Clause, Endless Battle Clause, Species Clause, Evasion Clause, OHKO Clause, Sleep Moves Clause

Bans:
Pokemon
:arceus: Arceus
:darkrai: Darkrai
:dialga:Dialga
:giratina:Giratina
:giratina-origin:Giratina-Origin
:groudon:Groudon
:ho-oh:Ho-Oh
:kyogre:Kyogre
:lugia:Lugia
:mewtwo:Mewtwo
:palkia:Palkia
:porygon-z:Porygon-Z
:rayquaza:Rayquaza
:shaymin-sky: Shaymin-Sky

Moves*
Acupressure*
Baton Pass
Belly Drum*
Chatter*
Extreme Speed*
Shell Smash*

Abilities
Arena Trap
Drizzle
Moody
Shadow Tag

Items
:kings rock:King's Rock
:razor fang:Razor Fang
Watchlist:
Garchomp / Precipice Blades, Magnet Pull, Aerodactyl, Manaphy, Dragonite, Blaziken


Sample Teams
:drapion::garchomp::azumarill::weavile::blaziken::scizor: Webs HO by in the hills
:aerodactyl::scizor::latios::magnezone::gliscor::rotom-wash: Magnet Pull Offense by in the hills
:azelf::weavile::blaziken::scizor::dragonite::manaphy: Screens HO by in the hills
:garchomp::magnezone::rotom-wash::latios::dragonite::slowking: DragMag by in the hills
Tournament Ruleset
/tour new bdspubers, elim,,,[BDSP] STABmons
/tour ruleset Stabmons Move Legality, Sleep Moves Clause, !Sleep Clause Mod, -Baton Pass, *Acupressure, *Belly Drum, *Extreme Speed, *Shell Smash, -King's Rock, -Razor Fang, -Arena Trap, -Drizzle, -Moody, -Shadow Tag, -Arceus, -Darkrai, -Dialga, -Giratina, -Giratina-Origin, -Groudon, -Ho-Oh, -Kyogre, -Lugia, -Mewtwo, -Palkia, -Porygon-Z, -Rayquaza, -Shaymin-Sky

/tour setautostart #
/tour setautodq #

Challenge Ruleset
/challenge [user], bdspubers@@@
Stabmons Move Legality, Sleep Moves Clause, !Sleep Clause Mod, -Baton Pass, *Acupressure, *Belly Drum, *Extreme Speed, *Shell Smash, -King's Rock, -Razor Fang, -Arena Trap, -Drizzle, -Moody, -Shadow Tag, -Arceus, -Darkrai, -Dialga, -Giratina, -Giratina-Origin, -Groudon, -Ho-Oh, -Kyogre, -Lugia, -Mewtwo, -Palkia, -Porygon-Z, -Rayquaza, -Shaymin-Sky
 
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Ren

your empire for the taking
is a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
~bdsp bh thoughts~

arceus formes are freed. this is under species clause and there are definitely stronger and bulkier single typed pokemon, but arceus is probably the best pokemon in the metagame due to raw stats and speed. things that come to mind are pixilate since there are quite literally no viable fairies, ph offensive groundceus (or any offensive groundceus), sflo elecceus, mgar ghostceus... possibilities are endless. in a similar vein, when another arceus is being run, there are definitely more than serviceable replacements for the stuff that one arceus can definitely do. honestly, fairyceus might be the best forme by sheer uniqueness, but we shall see. poisonceus is probably also incredible by virtue of checking fairyceus very handily.

deoxys-attack doesn't have mega mewtwo y to compete with anymore. this would be pretty huge for it, but it lost photon geyser meaning it's relegated to running psystrike and psycho boost in a metagame where there aren't any mold breaker moves to break through ice scales pokemon. there's potential for running stabless tough claws sets, but personally i think those aren't going to be great because fur coat is a lot freer now, especially with shell smash being banned right off the bat.

tail glow is also free, which means fast special attackers can do dumb fast special attacker things like in gen 7. this'll again be hampered due to the existence of ice scales now, though.

dialga's dialga, it's got an incredible typing and respectable bulk in context of this metagame. it'll probably land around a rank or so. sets it can run are regenvest DAMMIT SEVAG, scales fc etc, but i can also see stuff like offensive magic bounce and choice specs becoming popular, especially considering it got tail glow back. dialga's honestly probably one of the biggest winners of this thing.

sturdy shed is free again, but it lacks boots. it also doesn't have to deal with thunder cage or mold breaker moves. that being said, i can see a lot of choiced mold breaker pokemon becoming powerful, so not sure how great shed'll be in this meta. shed also doesn't have safety goggles LOL

ice scales and fur coat don't have to deal with mold breaker moves anymore, and they don't have to deal with shell smash. that being said, scales pokemon have tail glow to deal with now. yay

no more topsy turvy means dark-types lose a small niche of blocking prankster topsy turvy since well.. there's none to block lol. prank mons can still run stuff like wisp and glare, though, so they still definitely have a niche, but there aren't many good darks to use either. weavile and tyranitar lost glacial lance/triple axel and diamond storm, respectively. i can see simple tg darkrai being serviceable, but not sure how good it'll end up actually being especially considering sleep moves got banned off the bat.

normalceus probably has no niche. it'll be incredible when you do use it, but the benefits of using it over gigas/slaking when you could be using another arceus forme + that aren't really worth it.

heatran jirachi and registeel are probably... decent, i'd say? dialga and registeel are probably two of the better steel types in this tier, and dialga wins a lot by not really having a ton of fairies to deal with.

giratina is immune to endeavor. it's also giratina. huge

honestly, the biggest loser of this metagame is palkia. no fishious rend, dragon energy, surging strikes, dragon darts, core enforcer... no nothing. it's all dexited. it'll definitely still be incredible by virtue of bst, typing and power, but it lost a lot of the tools it had to work with. i'm a little sad, because i think that palkia had a lot of potential going into the metagame and i think it still does, but it won't be nearly as effective.

that being said, hooh also lost boots which means we get to see more magic guard hooh again yAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

no blue flare means that magma storm is prob the best fire move atm, so this is shaping up to be a super competitive and fun metagame and i'm sure nobody will miss their crucial moves at all :) volt tackle is also the best physical electric move, given that bolt strike and plasma fists are gone. v-create is also gone.

overall i feel like this bh will be pretty different compared to recent iterations of bh. a good different, but different no less. the pool of viable pokemon is a lot smaller due to dexit + some of the power creep of recent generations being removed. i cannot wait to see how this gets tiered though it'll be an adventure for sure LMAO, hoping to watch some forum tours for this soon.

e: just realized this is my 1.5k. shoutouts to all my friends on this site, there's like 150 of you (i'm a really lucky guy) so i won't bother to tag each and every one of you but you know who you are if you're reading this :) honestly 1.5k means a lot less to me now though it's an indicator that i've spent way too much time on this website than is probably healthy
 
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I'm wondering how plausible it would be for BDSP BH to pull a SwSh BH and use Forme Clause instead of Species Clause. This notably frees using multiple Arceus forms (and increases the chaos at team preview, but hey, we get to use the closest we can get to Xerneas and pair it with an Uber Steel-type that actually resists Fairy!) but still prevents Mewtwo spam. Freeing Deoxys spam to a certain extent might not be completely desirable, though (but we could already use "Regigigas spam" by pairing it with Slaking and Arceus-Normal).
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
These are the main reasons that the Species Clauses was specifically implemented instead of the Forme Clause. The goal was to avoid things like team preview chaos, unclarity while hovering over mons, and spam. Without the Species Clause, there would be little reason not to run 3+ Arceus on a team and that doesn't offer much variety in building and Speed tiers.
 
some scattered meta thoughts:

The meta is tail glow arceus. Literally any tail glow arceus (always timid) you can think of probably has some kind of niche in the meta. No spectral no av no topsy in a meta with the highest bst most versatile pokemon ever is pretty hard to deal with lol. Mold breaker, simple, ates, ph, any defensive ability, normalize, are all viable and good tail glow abusers.

Shed is insane. With no moldmoves, no pursuit, and no helmet, if you want to adjust a pokemon's set to have some way to damage shed there are very limited options to do that. The main ways to cover shed (assuming I didn't miss any) are hazards, leech seed, magma storm, mold breaker, and status. One of the big issues with shed in bdsp is that status as a shed check got much much weaker; now that it isn't obligated to run pads it almost always runs lum, which leads to situations where you can aggressively switch into a mon with wisp/toxic (that didn't click it that turn), and then threaten to kill them while your shed stays alive. It's even worse when you are trying to kill shed with scald/pfangs. Spiky shield pheal mons are a meta adaptation to shed that's already happening but it's not a perfect solution since it mostly just slows shed progress - it doesn't help your breakers not get walled. Here is a team that goes all in on keeping hazards off for shed that won a lot of games for me and in general felt pretty dumb.


Nothing feels quite as strong to me as those two things but I do think gigas and slaking to a lesser extent are very powerful. I personally found a lot more success with ph gigas compared to things like ph quiver arc-fairy or ph kyogre because those mons risk just getting tail glowed on a lot more than gigas who has the ability to threaten arceus with an immediately strong facade. Core being gone is HUGE for it; I've stayed in with my gigas on prank giras so many times already as they entrain me for 18% while I get free rocks or knock leftovers.

edit: oh god eject button
 
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more scattered meta thoughts after a day:

Eject Button: This is soooooo uncompetitive / broken. It was basically found that in BDSP if u hack in eject button it no longer becomes one time use, and you can use it every time. You can see a replay of it here where eject button blissey infintely swaps into a farycius and it's just kinda gross. Also with shed this just becomes terrible and you're kinda forced to run koff on every mon to not insta lose momentum every turn.
https://play.pokemonshowdown.com/ba...-1464970097-k42mflszsculpkscqer2zn1a59w69ggpw

Tail Glow: It's quite evident that Fairycius & Ghostcius are probably the two most threatening arceus forms. The issue here is that both have wildly different checks, and are both incredibly bulky. With Tail Glow they can immedietly sky rocket in spa and 2hko any resist w/o ice scales (my steelcius took 70% from +3 pixilate Fairycius boomburst. This is imo quite rediculous and say i choose to give my steelcius unaware instead of magic bounce, then i lose to normalize ghostcius and things just get dicey. With the removal of assault vest, and other arceus forms able to bypass ice scales with mold breaker, Tail Glow seems to possibly be an unhealthy component of the metagame, and should be on the watchlist. The only thing kinda keeping it in check is shed...

Shedinja: Shedinja is kinda bonkers. Without pursuit, or ability ignoring moves, how do you really kill this mon? It's hard to tell since rocky helmet also isn't in the game. Hazards are difficult to keep up since fairycius is literally the best pokemon + spinner in the game so what do you do? Well, people have kind of ran ghost pokemon and figured they can just teleport out and figure it out later or set hazards. Problem is, w/o rocky helmet shedinja is free to use Poison Fang. Now your ghost mon is dead... unless you make it pheal. Eject Button shed is also the dumbest thing ever. Shed is appearing to be extremely unhealthy for the metagame, but I haven't seen much exploration into iron barbs or sand / hail teams though, so I'd like to see whether strong teams can be made from this archetypes, or by having a weather setter such as this one specifically for shed viable.


Anywhase meta is super weird w/o trapping or core enforcer and regigigas seems really broken too, but not as game breaking as the first two. BDSP bh is a p cool meta and I'm happy to see it get a good amount of immediate attention. Since we only have 1 month of this, hopefully we can see some quick tiering decisions since the meta is obviously not in an amazing spot right now. Hopefully it can get to a cool spot tho and yea.
 
Just echoing what's already been said: eject button shed is dumb and needs to go. It doesn't really matter which of eject button or shed (I feel like there's a decent chance both are broken individually, but I'm far from certain of that) goes, but having both is just ... not even slightly ok. https://pokepast.es/edf414e092d17d12 here's the team i've been abusing eject button shed with. It's not optimal (shed being the only source of hazards isn't great, and qd normalize arc wins if it clicks the right move like twice) but it's felt pretty good so far.
 
I tested this tier a little bit, and I enjoyed it. I will resume my experience in this tier:

-I didn't see any Eject Button or Shed (Yes I am quite lucky), I don't know if the first is broken or not but I think Shed is certainly broken in this meta. He doesn't have any good way to deal with it (Statut move -> Lum Berry / Recycle | Trap move -> Teleport or U-turn). We don't want to run Sand weather or Iron Barbs to deals with it...

-With the remove of Spectral Thief or Core Enfoncer I suspected to see a lot of Poison Heal and set-up sweeper. For the first one, I was surprised to not see so many Poison Heal (Regigigas is the most common). We have a lot of set-up sweeper, some people have a bad time with Tail Glow, not me... I simply use Clear Smog. It is not as good as Spectal Thief was but you could prevent some set-up spam with it. Prankster Haze still usefull, and some move like Parting Shot / Strenght Sap/ Heart Swap could still use to prevent some set-up sweeper!

-For my personnal meta Viability Ranking:
*Shedinja is S+ tier. Just to powerful, please Quickban it.
*Imposter is a S tier.Like always in BH. Imposter isn't broken but still works well.
*Arceus-Fairy is S tier. Just Omnipresent, You could use as a Pixilate (defensive or offensive with Tail Glow) or as a Poison Heal (defensive or offensive).
*Deoxys-A is S tier. Psysurge specs is terryfing, Could be run mixed to break a lot of wall. It is hard to handle it.
*Arceus-Ghost is a A+ tier. Normalize set is a real wincondition. But some people are well prepared.
*Giratina is a A+ Tier. Still a good defensive pokemon but it miss Core Enfoncer ans Spectral Thief to his set... :(
*Regigigas is a A tier.A good PH classic set but it works pretty well.
*Chansey/Blissey is a A tier. I think Unaware/Ice Scales/Fur Coat could works well on them.
*Ho-Oh is a A- tier. IT looks strong but you must be worry about SR. I think it could work as a defensive or offensive pokemon.
*Mewtwo is a B+ tier. A Deoxys-A bulkier but weaker. I think it still good even if Deoxys-A seems better to wallbreak.
*Groudon is a B+ tier. I think it could be a good FC wall with some offensive power.
*Palkia is a B+ tier. Maybe as a defensive pokemon but as an offensive pokemon it could work (on Rain abuse maybe?)
*Rayquaza is a B+ tier. I didn't see it but i think an aerilate set or an other offensive set could work.
*Dialga is a B tier. Could be use but I am not really convinced
*Kyogre is a B- tier. As a defensive pokemon, I don't think it works well... As an offensive pokemon under rain it could works maybe, but I think Palkia is just better.
*Slaking is a B- tier. A Regigigas like but we prefere Regigigas for the bulk. And I don't think Regigigas+Slaking combo works well.
*Lugia is a C pokemon. I think a lot of defensive pokemon are better.

Maybe I overstimate or understimate some pokemon... But it is what i saw after some battle on this ladder.
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
BDSP BH has a council! Myself, Nihilslave, Quantum Tesseract, and quojova will be making tiering decisions and resources for the meta. We are aware of some of the more hot button (<- button, get it?) topics like Shedinja and Eject Button and you can expect some sort of action from the council fairly soon.

Meanwhile, here are some sets I've been trying out on the ladder.

Arceus-Steel @ Iron Plate
Ability: Steelworker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Tail Glow
- Judgment
- Doom Desire
- Recover

Arceus-Steel is an interesting mon in this meta with a nice typing but it doesn't really stick out as an offensive threat. But with Steelworker, strong STAB moves, and Tail Glow this mon is very scary. I've taken down Ice Scales Dialga, opposing Arceus-Steel, and Prankster Kyogre with this set. Shedinja checks it and can improof it, but I've been testing out scales Rotom-Wash to improof for now (and paired it with a semi-meme set of Steely Spirit Dialga).

Regigigas @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spiky Shield
- Facade
- Psycho Shift
- Dragon Hammer / Precipice Blades / Knock Off / Anything you want

Gigas is a very good mon in this metagame and people have started veering from the classic PH setup variants to sets like the one above. Spiky Shield is useful to scout and chip foes, especially Shedinja, while being useful to heal up too. Psycho Shift really dissuades Giratina and Shedinja from coming in, although you have to be careful around Knock Off and Imposter. I've been trying out Dragon Hammer mainly cause it has nice PP but it's a funny move that hits Giratina fairly hard. There are plenty of other options to run based on your team needs, though.

Regigigas @ Leftovers
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Precipice Blades
- Icicle Crash

Another Gigas set that eliminates Shedinja (unless you miss a lot) and doesn't care about Fur Coat users. Outside of random burns, this has served as a nice late game sweeper that hits quite hard. Leftovers is here over something like Life Orb or Expert Belt so that you can setup on passive mons and not get chipped to hell and just die.

Arceus-Ghost @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Strength Sap
- Nuzzle
- Hex
- Aura Sphere

This guy improofs the above Regigigas set and also is interesting on its own. Arceus obviously has nice bulk and this pairs well with Strength Sap and Nuzzle with Hex to top it off and Aura Sphere mainly just for Ttar. Also, when quite healthy, you live Hex from Imposter and can Nuzzle it for later (unless you get crit or it is Lucky Punch then you usually die).
 
So I was wondering with sturdy shedinja, why does knock off still not remove the item, because sturdy shedinja in-itself seems to be a tad broken, you can't kill it with pursuit or ability ignoring moves as theyre not in this gen, combined with eject pack which no longer gets consumed on activation. It seems to just be a filler slot thats rather broken for its role
 
Anyhow I thought I'd showcase a team that's been shown to be quite successful in the current metagame. Feel free to snatch it yourself if you want to torture I mean play anyone on ladder with it. Here's the team: https://pokepast.es/a4574b7c0077602f.

I observed that the metagame for BDSP BH was quite homogenous and consistent. These two traits of the meta essentially guaranteed that successful and potent Stall builds were going to exist. So using my prior experience with BH Stall, I was able to bring such a Stall build into being. I built the team around the dual Imposter core of Spooky Plate Chansey and Toxic Orb Chansey so my team could defeat the most common self Imposter-Proofed pokemon. From there I constructed the rest of the team to defeat common offensive and defensive threats. For my physical wall, I choose PH Giratina for it's longevity, ability to consistently set hazards, and act as a midground for Toxic Orb Blissey. Umbreon and Empoleon formed my specially defensive core since Umbreon handled Psychic pokemon well and Empoleon could deal with common fairy types such as Arceus Fairy. For the last pokemon, I realized I needed a Prankster pokemon that could double as a midground for Spooky Plate Chansey. For that role, I chose Arceus normal since it possessed few weaknesses and could reliably check Arceus Ghost and other Tail Glow pokemon with Prankster Haze and Encore.

Here's proof of the peak for the team:
Screenshot 2021-12-07 9.04.35 PM.png


With this team I managed to get 1st place and the 2nd highest gxe. I am confident I could've gotten it to the 1500s and the highest gxe with enough grinding, but unfortunately I've been really busy lately so that's out of the picture for now.
 
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UT

An Unnerfed Talonflame
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So I was wondering with sturdy shedinja, why does knock off still not remove the item, because sturdy shedinja in-itself seems to be a tad broken, you can't kill it with pursuit or ability ignoring moves as theyre not in this gen, combined with eject pack which no longer gets consumed on activation. It seems to just be a filler slot thats rather broken for its role
I would like to clarify that Knock Off DOES remove the item from Sturdy Shedinja, replay for proof.
 

a loser

I'm a loser, baby, so why don't you kill me?
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BDSP BH Update!
We've added another member to the council so ppplease jjjoin me to wwwelcome TTTech!

The council has been discussing the metagame and we landed on several discussion points. Said points have been voted on and the results are in the table below.
Subject
a loser
Nihilslave
Quantum Tesseract
quojova
TTTech
Voting Results
:shedinja:Shedinja​
DNB​
BAN​
BAN​
BAN​
DNB​
(3-2) BAN
:eject-button:Eject Button​
DNB​
ABSTAIN​
BAN​
ABSTAIN​
BAN​
(2-1-2) NO ACTION
:volbeat:Tail Glow​
DNB​
DNB​
BAN​
DNB​
DNB​
(1-4) DNB
:kecleon:Protean / Libero​
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
(5-0) UNBAN
:chatot:Chatter​
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
UNBAN​
(5-0) UNBAN

:shedinja:
Shedinja, specifically Sturdy Shedinja, is always a controversial topic in BH. Game Freak has slowly chipped away at methods of removing Sturdy Shed and things are not much different in BDSP. While it lost access to Heavy-Duty Boots, Safety Goggles, and Protective Pads, its foes also lost access to ability ignoring moves like Sunsteel Strike, Rocky Helmet, and Pursuit didn't make a comeback. This means that status, residual damage, and entry hazards are the main methods of bringing it down outside of Mold Breaker attackers. However, with few useful items left for Shed to run, Lum Berry and Eject Button have been great for it to ignore status and escape from partial trapping moves like Magma Storm. Overall, Shedinja's impact on teambuilding and the momentum it can gain the user if used correctly has been seen as unhealthy for the metagame and resulted in its banning.

:eject-button:
Eject Button is a wild mechanic that is still likely unknown to most BDSP players. The Eject Button is apparently unobtainable in the game but is able to hacked in and basically has infinite use unless it is removed or the user is KOed. This gives users a free pivot upon taking any damage so they can safely switch into teammates to answer threats and gain momentum. Turn 13 in this replay shows Eject Button in action although PS! shows it as Eject Pack for the time being. This is pretty insane to think about and offers momentum unlike anything I've seen before but using it is also a double-edged sword. I tried out Regen Dialga with Eject Button as a slow pivot and often found myself forced out before I could use any of my utility moves like Dragon Tail and Doom Desire.

The council is torn on this subject has some aspects of Eject Button play seem busted but there also hasn't been that much experimenting with it since many still seem unaware of its presence. One example of how this could be unhealthy and highly favorable to the Eject Button user would be: Poison Heal Giratina uses Scald against something like Imposter, but the opponent brings in Regenerator Kyogre with Eject Button and gets a free switch, netting 0 damage, and can safely bring in a teammate like Deoxys-A or Arceus-Fairy to pressure the Giratina. Similar interactions can happen with moves like Teleport to safely bring in teammates, but that uses up a very valuable moveslot.

:manaphy::volbeat:
Tail Glow is back and it is the premier setup option for special attackers. It makes pretty much any Arceus forme a huge threat in one turn and can completely flip the script of the battle if the opponent doesn't have the right answer. No Spectral Thief, Topsy-Turvy, or Assault Vest makes this move easy to use and harder to check. The available counterplay includes Ice Scales, Unaware, Haze, Heart Swap, Shedinja, and Imposter, but all of these can be overcome by Tail Glow users by means of Mold Breaker, other abilities, powerful moves like Judgment and Boomburst, and/or brute force. This move definitely looks broken on paper, but the council believes that it is fine for now in a meta that is still developing.

:kecleon::greninja::cinderace:
Protean / Libero is an interesting concept in the BDSP meta. Most of the insanely strong moves (V-create, Bolt Strike/Beak, Fishious Rend, Glacial Lance, Dragon Energy, Blue Flare, Astral Barrage, and moldy moves Sunsteel Strike, Moongeist Beam, and Photon Geyser) from later generations are unavailable which means that strong coverage is harder to come by. The council believes that Protean / Libero is worth taking a look at and will be unbanning it but keeping a close eye on it. It is worth noting that Arceus can't take advantage of this ability as it can't change its type.

:chatot:
Chatter was banned in previous generations due to its RNG based nature and the fact that Mega Rayquaza could use the move effectively. However, since then confusion has been nerfed from 50% self-hit to 33% and Mega Ray is nowhere to be seen so the council is freeing Chatter. This could still be an annoyance to some, but shouldn't be too bad considering Nuzzle is more prominent and annoying already.

Tagging Kris to implement the following:
  • Shedinja BAN
  • Protean / Libero UNBAN
  • Chatter UNBAN
And a reminder to test out Eject Button and share your thoughts on the new meta!
/challenge [user], bdsppurehackmons@@@OHKO Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Species Clause, Sleep Moves Clause, Endless Battle Clause, -Arena Trap, -Contrary, -Gorilla Tactics, -Huge Power, -Illusion, -Innards Out, -Intrepid Sword, -Magnet Pull, -Moody, -Neutralizing Gas, -Parental Bond, -Pure Power, -Shadow Tag, -Stakeout, -Water Bubble, -Wonder Guard, -Comatose + Sleep Talk, -Shedinja, -Shell Smash
 
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in the hills

spreading confusion
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:ss/arceus::ss/shaymin-sky::ss/darkrai:
Small update: Arceus, Shaymin-Sky, and Darkrai release
With the release of Arceus and Shaymin in BDSP, and Darkrai's upcoming release on April 1st, Arceus, Shaymin-Sky, and Darkrai will all be banned in both BDSP STABmons and BDSP AAA. That's all for now, thanks!​
 

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