Metagame BDSP Ubers

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Ubers Leader
Ubers is back baby, with a remake of the games that gave birth to a lot of the modern Ubers community! With Team Preview, certain unavailable Pokemon (not anymore!), and different mechanics, this metagame won't be your father's DPP Ubers!

Resources
Viability Rankings

Sample Teams (Coming Soon)

Rules

Clauses


Even Gen 4 Ubers had its clauses to take into account. Here are the clauses currently in BDSP Ubers.
  • Endless Battle Clause
  • Evasion Moves Clause
  • OHKO Clause
  • Sleep Clause Mod
  • Species Clause

Bans

Baton Pass is banned from BDSP Ubers as of 11/29/2021.

Unavailable Pokémon / abilities

Thanks to the last HOME update and the various events, everyone is now available and Ramanas Park Pokémon aren't locked in Hidden Abilties anymore! Hooray!

Mechanics

Unlike Gen 4 Ubers, BDSP Ubers generally follows SwSh mechanics with a few exceptions. This means:
  • Team Preview is a thing (so don't expect the crazy Ubers lead metagame to come back!)
  • Unlike Gen 4, Hidden Abilities are a thing! Thanks to Ability Patch, all Pokemon are currently able to access their Hidden Abilities.
  • Fairy-type is actually in, granted, with few super relevant Pokemon most-likely.
  • With the exception of Roseli Berry and Fairy Plate, items beyond Gen 4 are not obtainable
A quick look at the available Ubers

Unlike most other BDSP metagames, Ubers has some normally banned Pokemon allowed to roam amuck! Since it's early days, a lot of what's here could change drastically, but let's take a short look at each of the available Ubers, to help get us familiar with the metagame more quickly.

I feel the need to bring up an old Ubers adage though: A Pokemon's tier placement DOES NOT affect its viability in Ubers, so don't be afraid to deviate from the Ubers list if your team needs it!


:sm/kyogre:
Kyogre

The classic king of Ubers returns, and it could be a bigger threat than ever! With Latias and Latios losing their incredible Soul Dew boosts from gen 4, Kyogre has even LESS checks than normal! Kyogre is likely to be the most powerful choice attacker in the game, with Choice Specs Water Spout being even too much for Blissey to handle at full power, and Choice Scarf being a good revenge killer. Kyogre is also fully capable of bulkier Calm Mind sets, if needed.

Also remember, Kyogre being allowed means Drizzle is allowed too! Palkia is the obvious partner to abuse the rain, but Pokemon such as Kingdra may be viable too!

:sm/Groudon:
Groudon

The other lord of the weather is unlikely to be a joke either. While Groudon doesn't have anything as spamable as Water moves in the rain, it does have access to Precipice Blades unlike gen 4, and getting rid of the rain itself is always a useful feature. Groudon is also one of the bulkiest avaliable options for setting Stealth Rock, only being rivaled by Dialga, and Groudon boasts far more physical bulk than Dialga.

Groudon doesn't just have to be a bulky Stealth Rock setter of course. It also has access to Swords Dance and Rock Polish, so Groudon is more than capable of sweeping if needed! Groudon's sun setting could also give rise to some potential sun abusers as partners, such as Blaziken.

:sm/rayquaza:
Rayquaza

Rayquaza was already known to be a fearsomely diverse sweeper back in Gen 4, but BDSP gave Rayquaza Dragon Ascent, which means Rayquaza now has an extremely powerful STAB that doesn't lock itself in! This might make Rayquaza even more troublesome than usual, making it a fine win condition to consider for your team! Offensively, Rayquaza has access to both Swords Dance and Dragon Dance, which often quite a different set of revenge killers to handle, and Rayquaza is fully capable of going mixed with Draco Meteor to deal massive damage to physically defensive Pokemon like Groudon without a boost.

Of course, Rayquaza does have a quandary to consider: Extreme Speed, or more coverage. This was a classic issue for Dragon Dance sets in particular. You'll have to consider what's a bigger threat for your team: revenge killers, or certain defensive Pokemon.

:sm/dialga:
Dialga

Dialga was notorious for being an extremely diverse threat in gen 4 Ubers, having no less than 7 SETS on the gen 4 dex! While Dialga unfortunately lost access to Outrage (meaning the already niche Choice Band set is likely to no longer be viable), Dialga still has a vast array of tools available. Most prominently, Dialga is a great bulky offensive option for setting up Stealth Rock, but Dialga is more than capable of using Choice Specs and Choice Scarf to bust through bulky Pokemon and revenge kill fast ones respectively. Finally, while losing Outrage does make the fight against Blissey tougher, Dialga actually has a high enough Attack stat that with an offensive item, it is actually capable of 2HKOing Blissey with Brick Break of all things, just like DP Ubers!

:sm/palkia:
Palkia

Palkia is one of the best offensive options for switching into Water Spout around, especially with Latias and Latios being seriously nerfed compared to gen 4. Palkia sits at a 100 base Speed tier, which while not incredible on paper, outspeeds the vast majority of threats in the Ubers metagame, which may make it rather difficult to revenge kill without a Choice Scarf (or really fast dragon like Garchomp or Latios).

When it comes to offensive options, Palkia is obviously super dangerous in the rain, but Palkia also has access to Fire-type attacks, making it quite adaptable to weather changes compared to Kyogre. While Choiced sets are an obvious option for Palkia (with Choice Scarf in particular outspeeding Dragon Dance Rayquaza), remember that Palkia has a rather impressive Attack stat as well, so Aqua Tail in the rain will easily bust through Blissey! Unfortunately, with the loss of Outrage though, Palkia will need rain support to pull this off, unless it wants to use Brick Break like Dialga...

:sm/giratina:

Giratina

Giratina's big niche in gen 4 was it's ability to block Rapid Spin. With Defog getting rid of hazards now, it did unfortunately lose a big part of what made it special. That being said, Giratina's insane bulk is hard to deny, and it does have access to Defog itself, so it could be an effective way to remove hazards on stallier teams. Giratina is also by far the bulkiest user of Will-O-Wisp around, and it gets Roar too if you want to phaze. While most players may remember Giratina for its physical bulk, remember that if you use it specially defensive, it's actually bulky enough to survive 2 Choice Specs Water Spouts from Kyogre with Leftovers!

:sm/giratina-origin:

Giratina-Origin

While Giratina-O may have lost its spin blocking niche, what's still around is that Giratina-O is a very bulky offensive Pokemon! Giratina-O does unfortunately lose Outrage, but on the special side, Giratina-O is relatively untouched, still being fully capable of running specially offensive and mixed offensive sets. Giratina-O also has access to useful utility options such as Will-O-Wisp and Defog, and the bulk to fully take advantage of them!

:sm/lugia:
Lugia

Something that may seem shocking to some newer Uber players, is that Lugia used to be considered a defensive staple. With a lot of stuff Lugia dislikes being gone such as Dusk Mane Necrozma and Calyrex-S, This may be the metagame for Lugia to shine once again! Lugia has access to Defog, and unlike SwSh Ubers, its likely it can outlast most users of Stealth Rock on the battlefield. Lugia can also take advantage of Stealth Rock itself thanks to Whirlwind.

While losing Toxic will sting for outstalling certain Pokemon (and make Pokemon such as Kyogre even more threatening), Lugia will ironically love that few Pokemon can run Toxic anymore in general! Multiscale will at least reward keeping Stealth Rock off the field with the ability to effectively check sweepers such as Rayquaza.

:sm/ho-oh:
Ho-Oh

Ho-Oh finally having Regenerator in a Gen 4-like metagame may seem like a dream come true, but there is unfortunately a huge catch: Ho-Oh lost access to Brave Bird, which is a real bummer for more offensive sets that will want to slam Kyogre as hard as possible (granted, it still has Earthquake at least). That being said, Ho-Oh still has Defog, and with less Toxic going around, Ho-Oh could last a while even with the unfortunate Stealth Rock weakness.

:sm/mewtwo:
Mewtwo

Unlike SwSh, Mewtwo was known to be an incredibly dangerous threat in Gen 4 Ubers. In BDSP, this could continue to be the case, as Mewtwo is by far one of the fastest and most powerful threats in the metagame! Most of all though, Mewtwo retains Psystrike and Nasty Plot, making it an incredibly powerful mixed sweeper, being able to hit Kyogre particularly hard with it!

It's hard to say exactly what shape Mewtwo will take, considering how diverse it was in gen 4 Ubers. It's unlikely stall sets will return with Pressure being unobtainable, losing Trick hurts choice sets, and Slefdestruct being nerfed compared to Gen 4 means Mewtwo won't be able to take out almost any threat in the game in one shot, but thankfully, Offensive sets seem like they could be fairly intact. Psystrike and Nasty Plot could make Life Orb offensive sets even more dangerous than it used to be, and remember that with Mewtwo learning Taunt, Nasty Plot and bulkier Calm Mind sets could effectively take advantage of passive Defoggers such as Lugia and Giratina!
 
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Fc

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Ubers Leader
VIABILITY RANKINGS (Updated July 5th, 2022)

S Rank:

:arceus: (Normal)
:dialga:
:Kyogre:

A+ Rank:
:clefable:
:groudon:
:mewtwo:
:palkia:

A Rank:
:arceus-ghost: :spooky_plate: (Ghost)
:arceus-steel: :iron_plate: (Steel)
:deoxys-attack:
:giratina-origin:

A- Rank:
:arceus-fairy: :pixie_plate: (Fairy)
:forretress:
:ho-oh:
:rayquaza:

B+ Rank:
:arceus-dark: :dread_plate: (Dark)

B Rank:
:arceus-water: :splash_plate: (Water)
:deoxys-speed:
:ditto:
:giratina:
:gliscor:
:shaymin-sky:
:skarmory:
:smeargle:

B- Rank:
:arceus-electric: :zap_plate: (Electric)
:arceus-ground: :earth_plate: (Ground)
:blissey:
:gastrodon:
:heatran:
:lugia:

C+ Rank:
:arceus-grass: :meadow_plate: (Grass)
:arceus-rock: :stone_plate: (Rock)
:bronzong:
:Lucario:
:Xatu:

C Rank:
:arceus-dragon: :draco_plate: (Dragon)
:arceus-fighting: :fist_plate: (Fighting)
:blaziken:
:cloyster:
:darkrai:
:deoxys-defense:
:dugtrio:
:magnezone:
:manaphy:
:quagsire:
:scizor:
:wobbuffet:

C- Rank:
:aerodactyl:
:arceus-flying: :sky_plate: (Flying)
:arceus-ice: :icicle_plate: (Ice)
:gengar:

D Rank:
(This rank is reserved for Pokemon that are Uber by tiering, but are otherwise unviable in Ubers)

:arceus-bug: :insect_plate: (Bug)
:arceus-fire: :flame_plate: (Fire)
:arceus-psychic: :mind_plate: (Psychic)
:deoxys:
:latios:
 
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Fusion Flare

LIVING IN A GODDAMN GARBAGE CAN???
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
Since this is BDSP Ubers, Ropalme1914 made a Pastebin for the case of convienence, and im just so happening to poston his behalf so enjoy lol

https://pastebin.com/raw/ymTJjPYm

:bw/mewtwo:
Mewtwo: Agility, Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Counter, Curse, Detect, Double-Edge, Expanding Force, Fire Punch, Foul Play, Frustration, Hurricane, Ice Punch, Low Kick, Magic Coat, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Power-Up Punch, Psyshock, Return, Seismic Toss, Signal Beam, Stored Power, Submission, Take Down, Teleport, Thunder Punch, Toxic, Tri Attack, Trick, Zen Headbutt

:bw/lugia:
Lugia: Air Slash, Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Curse, Detect, Double-Edge, Dragon Tail, Dual Wingbeat, Earth Power, Frustration, Hurricane, Hyper Voice, Iron Head, Psycho Boost, Psyshock, Return, Signal Beam, Tailwind, Toxic, Trick, Zen Headbutt

:bw/ho-oh:
Ho-Oh: Air Slash, Brave Bird, Curse, Detect, Double-Edge, Dual Wingbeat, Earth Power, Flame Charge, Flare Blitz, Frustration, Heat Wave, Hyper Voice, Iron Head, Return, Scorching Sands, Signal Beam, Tailwind, Toxic, Zen Headbutt

:bw/celebi:
Celebi: Aura Sphere, Curse, Detect, Double-Edge, Dual Wingbeat, Earth Power, Expanding Force, Frustration, Last Resort, Leaf Blade, Magic Coat, Pollen Puff, Psycho Cut, Return, Seed Bomb, Signal Beam, Sucker Punch, Synthesis, Toxic, Trick, Uproar, Weather Ball, Zen Headbutt

:bw/latias:
Latias: Agility, Air Slash, Aura Sphere, Baton Pass, Body Slam, Double-Edge, Dragon Dance, Dual Wingbeat, Frustration, Future Sight, Hone Claws, Last Resort, Magic Coat, Mystical Fire, Outrage, Psycho Cut, Psyshock, Refresh, Return, Sucker Punch, Toxic, Tri Attack, Trick

:bw/latios:
Latios: Agility, Air Slash, Aura Sphere, Baton Pass, Body Slam, Double-Edge, Dual Wingbeat, Frustration, Future Sight, Hone Claws, Last Resort, Magic Coat, Mystical Fire, Outrage, Psycho Cut, Psyshock, Refresh, Return, Toxic, Tri Attack, Trick

:bw/kyogre:
Kyogre: Frustration, Heavy Slam, Iron Head, Liquidation, Return, Signal Beam, Toxic, Uproar

:bw/groudon:
Groudon: Body Slam, Counter, Double-Edge, Dragon Tail, Fire Punch, Frustration, Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, High Horsepower, Hone Claws, Iron Head, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Power-Up Punch, Return, Scorching Sands, Seismic Toss, Smack Down, Thunder Punch, Toxic, Uproar

:bw/rayquaza:
Rayquaza: Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Defog, Double-Edge, Dragon Tail, Earth Power, Frustration, Hone Claws, Hydro Pump, Iron Head, Return, Tailwind, Toxic, Uproar, V-create

:bw/deoxys: :bw/deoxys-attack: :bw/deoxys-defense: :bw/deoxys-speed:
Deoxys: Body Slam, Detect, Double-Edge, Fire Punch, Frustration, Ice Punch, Low Kick, Magic Coat, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Power-Up Punch, Psyshock, Pursuit, Return, Seismic Toss, Signal Beam, Stomping Tantrum, Throat Chop, Thunder Punch, Toxic, Trick

:bw/dialga:
Dialga: Body Press, Body Slam, Dragon Tail, Frustration, Heavy Slam, Hone Claws, Hyper Voice, Iron Defense, Iron Head, Outrage, Return, Steel Beam, Toxic

:bw/palkia:
Palkia: Body Press, Body Slam, Dragon Tail, Dual Wingbeat, Frustration, Heavy Slam, Hone Claws, Hyper Voice, Liquidation, Outrage, Return, Toxic

:bw/heatran:
Heatran: Body Press, Body Slam, Eruption, Flame Charge, Frustration, Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, Iron Defense, Return, Scorching Sands, Steel Beam, Steel Roller, Toxic, Uproar

:bw/giratina: :bw/giratina-origin:
Giratina: Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Dragon Tail, Dual Wingbeat, Frustration, Hone Claws, Hyper Voice, Iron Head, Magic Coat, Outrage, Poltergeist, Return, Tailwind, Toxic

:bw/manaphy:
Manaphy: Ancient Power, Frustration, Heal Bell, Knock Off, Last Resort, Liquidation, Return, Signal Beam, Toxic, Uproar

:bw/darkrai:
Darkrai: Frustration, Knock Off, Last Resort, Night Shade, Power-Up Punch, Pursuit, Return, Spacial Rend, Throat Chop, Toxic, Trick

:bw/shaymin: :bw/shaymin-sky:
Shaymin: Air Slash, Earth Power, Endeavor, Frustration, Last Resort, Leaf Storm, Quick Attack, Return, Seed Bomb, Tailwind, Toxic, Zen Headbutt
Shaymin-Sky: Air Slash, Earth Power, Endeavor, Frustration, Headbutt, Last Resort, Leaf Storm, Quick Attack, Return, Seed Bomb, Tailwind, Toxic, Zen Headbutt

:bw/arceus:
Arceus: Ancient Power, Aqua Tail, Frustration, Heat Wave, Hone Claws, Iron Defense, Iron Head, Last Resort, Liquidation, Magic Coat, Outrage, Psyshock, Refresh, Return, Signal Beam, Spacial Rend, Tailwind, Toxic, Trick, Zen Headbutt
 
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I'd keep an eye out on Baton Pass with no clause being present currently. Not sure if it'll just happen right away but things like SmashPass with Smeargle or even chains definitely might pop up. Otherwise this seems like a cool metagame and I've liked for the past hour thinking of ideas. May post more as I flesh out and test stuff as I've only played one game so far with a Manaphy Webs.
 
Here's some stuff I've noticed seems decent after playing a total of 6 games.

:bw/mewtwo:
Mewtwo @ Expert Belt
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psystrike
- Ice Beam/Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast/Aura Sphere
Mewtwo is really nice since it's one of the fastest pokemon in the format and gets strong boosting and devastating coverage. There isn't really anything that can counter it since it hits so hard with Psystrike and its coverage is wide, but you can check it with Scarf Kyogre or something. I guess something like Spdef Jirachi or Spdef Scizor could also work, but they don't like taking +2 hits and can't 1hko in return so it's a bit rough. I prefer Expert Belt to Life Orb on it since the chip damage can get it in range of Scarf Draco Meteors from Palkia/Dialga and priority from Giratina-O and Rayquaza. Mewtwo just dislikes chip in general a lot and Expert Belt gives it the boost a lot, especially if using Ice Beam since Ice+Fighting hits a good amount of mons super effectively.

:bw/gastrodon:
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Mirror Coat
- Scald
- Earth Power
Spdef Gastro is one of the best Kyogre answer and also deals with not specs Dialga/Palkia very well. It's a bit passive, but Mirror Coat allows it to at least fire off some strong hits on special attackers and Scald is always a tough move to switch into for physical attackers so it's not that bad. Walling Kyogre is already quite good, but Gastro still holds its weight against other special attackers and threatens most physical attackers, making it pretty consistent from what I've seen. I expect this to be pretty good and common.

Outside of that, I've found status, especially burn and paralysis to be very important to deal with certain threats and obviously, having some way to deal with Baton Pass or Moody is extremely important. While I haven't really been able to use it in any battle against these archetypes, I've been using Haze Xatu for this since Magic Bounce can help to deal with Taunt against Baton Pass and can make up for it being otherwise really bad in certain matchups to try to mess with the opponent's status spreading or hazard setting. Anyway, I'm curious to see how a format with so few Ubers short term will develop, at least until some event mons get released.
 
Speaking of Kyogre checks, we might as well address the insectoid husk in the room:

:ss/Shedinja:
Shedinja @ Focus Sash
252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Protect
-Will-o-wisp
-Shadow Sneak
-X-Scissor/Shadow Claw

Shedinja definitely wishes Boots were still a thing, and it hates Knock Off being relevant and losing SD (even though Ninjask didn't); however, there are quite a few things working in its favor compared to DPP classic.
-Defog means Rocks are no longer a game-ender
-Toxic is heavily restricted
-HP and Pursuit are non-existent
-No permanent weather or Pursuit hamper Tyranitar's viability
-Baton Pass is legal atm, so Shed can be passed boosts or Sub

Protect is obviously a set staple to help scout for SE moves, Will-o-wisp allows it to catch offensive answers like Groudon on the switch, and Shadow Sneak and stronger STAB of choice allow it some offensive presence; X-Scissor is preferable so Shed can hit Blissey, although Shadow Claw lets it get more damage against the likes of Ho-Oh and Rayquaza. Focus Sash is the item of choice, allowing it to live one SE hit. Adamant Nature helps compensate for the lack of SD, and is probably best even with SD pass support.

This sounds fine and dandy, but the real power of Shedinja comes in how its mere presence effects teambuilder.
:Mewtwo:
Mewtwo is a scary special attacker with Plot and Psystrike to bypass Blissey- and depending on its moveset, it gets hard walled by Shedinja. Mewtwo basically needs Shadow Ball if it wants to hit Shed (Fire STAB isn't most reliable with Kyogre on top), and if Sash hasn't been broken, it still gets guaranteed KOed by STAB into Sneak.

:Ho-Oh:
Losing its more spammable STAB alongside Toxic means Ho-Oh suddenly has a much harder time taking on Shedinja. Sacred Fire is a great move cursed with low PP, which can be exploited between Protect and potential partners, particularly Pressure Palkia. Once the Fire has burned itself out, Ho-Oh basically can't touch Shed without Wisp (kinda redundant) or- Aerial Ace? I guess?

:Lugia:
No Toxic means the Wall can't touch Shed without Aeroblast; Shed can't take down Lugia easily, but it can Wisp back to hard break Multiscale and win 1v1 thanks to high attack PP.

:Kyogre:
This does nothing lol. Like you're gonna run Ancient Power Kyogre.

:Dialga:
No Fire Blast/Flamethrower? Okay, name how your Dialga is gonna touch Shedinja. So either you need to fit on Fire move on Rocker/support Dialga, or run Choice Dialga and risk getting scouted with Protect. Is honestly possible, so I'm interested in seeing how the dynamic between these two influences Dialga builds.

:Palkia:
Palkia is another case of a powerful special attacker that needs to account for Shed. Palkia needs Fire Blast or Flamethrower to hit Shed, making it basically a must have for any Palk, which gives a bit of 4MSS since it wants Thunder in case of CM Kyogre and Brick Break so it doesn't need Rain to break Blissey.

:Weavile:
The lack of Darkrai and gimping of Ttar compared to DPP leaves Weavile as probably the most relevant Dark type in Ubers. It loses hard to X-Scissor, so you need to break Sash before Weavile can safely take it on.

Shed is not the most consistent mon in this tier, but it's one you definitely need to take into account when building, especially for as long as you can Baton Pass it Sub or SD. As long as you can deal with hazards, Shed can be quite the troublesome little shell.
 

zee

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one huge early impression from this this is that scarf Palkia is a pretty solid revenge killer, likely to no one's surprise. Dragon resists are really not great, but dragons are, which means there's a ton of value in being the fastest dragon.

Defensive structures seem really limited because of how loaded the offensive tools are. Hazards are super strong, even with the advent of Defog, that's a turn spent not attacking in these high voltage blow-for-blow games.

While I haven't ran into them yet, BP and Moody are some pretty obvious annoyances that I think we should keep an eye on.

Here's a simple Dragon spam offense I made to test the waters if anyone needs a team to load up. Seems like a fun tier, will be happy to play more over the next few days

https://pokepast.es/79ebae1bc671047a :aerodactyl: :rayquaza: :palkia: :dialga: :groudon: :jirachi:
 
Moody is very imbalanced and it changed the game in just luck competition.Below is the battle replay, though there are some hax such as crit and freeze caused by freeze-dry,you can see how broken moody is even in uber.If there's no +6 def caused by moody,oppositing Scizor could attack using bullet punch.So please ban moody.https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspubers-1461224736
 
"some hax" bro you got three freezes and one crit with your first four freeze dries. Not to mention the fact that your first boost was spdef and your opponent elected to use ice beam instead of surf against glalie. And then you got the speed boost to taunt manaphy. I'm not denying that moody might be a threat but this is not the replay to show it.
 
Things I would keep an eye on, some partially through my DPP ubers glasses:

- Specs Dialga; its Draco Meteor is very spammable in this new meta given it has STAB Flash Cannon to prevent Clefable from ever switching in (and you'll want the power of Specs for things like Ho-oh, Lugia, Groudon, Kyogre, other Dialga, and even if people are going to be running Gastro, as they probably should)
- Poltergeist Giratina-O; Steel no longer resisting Ghost is a dream come true
- Rayquaza with V-Create...yes. Spam CB.
- since there's no Pursuit, I would spam the daylights out of Specs Mewtwo's Psystrike to maximize its destructive power against the neutral targets that populate the tier (and, like with Dialga, its few resists are of course one coverage move away from getting eviscerated)
- Scarf Palkia is nice and all but is also often a waste of what's potentially one of the biggest threats in the meta
- dealing with status - specifically burn and Toxic (and, for the side dishing the status out, dealing with anti-status tactics, such as Taunt to stop Rest / Heal Bell; the Heatran + Mewtwo combo could be terrific) - will be important in longer games (Clef can absorb AND be a cleric for Resting teammates, Manaphy has a lot of potential, Gliscor as well)
- in a similar vein, I would definitely test Scald Toxic ResTalk Kyogre
- not having BB sucks, but Ho-Oh will definitely have a defensive place in the meta thanks to its huge walling capability in conjunction with Regen, Defog and burn spreading (with other options like Toxic and Whirlwind too)
- the Heatran + Gastrodon core looks like a really solid backbone; think Heatran in particular is gonna have an important defensive role
- finally, the aforementioned Gliscor is being seriously slept on, and works beautifully with the above core

edit: apparently some of these don't exist yet. they will be good once they do, though! for now, I think the ones that are available are still quite good (and burn will be the primary status pre-toxic)
 
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Mimikyu Stardust

Tournament Banned
As someone who loves DPP Ubers this meta lends well with me, a pokemon i did not expect to love or think would be good is
:bw/clefable:
Clefable...

i got this lady over here to top 5 of the ladder day one. This demon ignores the abundance of hazards that i have found and able to set up on the 3 demons of dpp ubers :dialga: Stealth Rock Dialga, :palkia: Choice Locked Palkia and especially :giratina-origin: both giratina forms. i use this thing with dual-spiking Forry and man it is so good. dont get me wrong, things like :kyogre: Specs Ogre, :rayquaza: Ray, :groudon: Offensive groudon, :hooh: Ho-oh and :mewtwo: Psytrike Mewtwo destroys it, but paired with things like Spdef Roar Groudon, Giratina-O, Dual-Spiking Forry, this thing is nuts.

also just a reminder, the steels of DPP ubers are Bronzong which doesnt do much to clef anyways, Jirachi, Scizor, Forry and skarm...

guess what? Iron Head is gone, Rachi and Skarm cant hurt clef, while scizor cant hurt giratina, ogre or groudon. forry and zong cant damage it too reliably either

Loser Girl (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Moonblast
- Moonlight


This is the set i use, no Soft Boiled DEFINETLY sucks, but with home coming soon and threats like :deoxys: Deo-A, :shaymin-sky: Skymin, :giratina: Poltergeist Giratina, :ho-oh:, Brave Bird Ho-oh potentially coming, im not sure if it will stay that way
 
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Ropalme1914

Ace Poker Player
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Moderator
Since this is BDSP Ubers, Ropalme1914 made a Pastebin for the case of convienence, and im just so happening to poston his behalf so enjoy lol

https://pastebin.com/raw/ymTJjPYm

:bw/mewtwo:
Mewtwo: Agility, Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Counter, Curse, Detect, Double-Edge, Expanding Force, Fire Punch, Foul Play, Frustration, Hurricane, Ice Punch, Low Kick, Magic Coat, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Power-Up Punch, Psyshock, Return, Seismic Toss, Signal Beam, Stored Power, Submission, Take Down, Teleport, Thunder Punch, Toxic, Tri Attack, Trick, Zen Headbutt

:bw/lugia:
Lugia: Air Slash, Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Curse, Detect, Double-Edge, Dragon Tail, Dual Wingbeat, Earth Power, Frustration, Hurricane, Hyper Voice, Iron Head, Psycho Boost, Psyshock, Return, Signal Beam, Tailwind, Toxic, Trick, Zen Headbutt

:bw/ho-oh:
Ho-Oh: Air Slash, Brave Bird, Curse, Detect, Double-Edge, Dual Wingbeat, Earth Power, Flame Charge, Flare Blitz, Frustration, Heat Wave, Hyper Voice, Iron Head, Return, Scorching Sands, Signal Beam, Tailwind, Toxic, Zen Headbutt

:bw/celebi: (NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THIS POST)
Celebi: Aura Sphere, Curse, Detect, Double-Edge, Dual Wingbeat, Earth Power, Expanding Force, Frustration, Last Resort, Leaf Blade, Magic Coat, Pollen Puff, Psycho Cut, Return, Seed Bomb, Signal Beam, Sucker Punch, Synthesis, Toxic, Trick, Uproar, Weather Ball, Zen Headbutt

:bw/latias:
Latias: Agility, Air Slash, Aura Sphere, Baton Pass, Body Slam, Double-Edge, Dragon Dance, Dual Wingbeat, Frustration, Future Sight, Hone Claws, Last Resort, Magic Coat, Mystical Fire, Outrage, Psycho Cut, Psyshock, Refresh, Return, Sucker Punch, Toxic, Tri Attack, Trick

:bw/latios:
Latios: Agility, Air Slash, Aura Sphere, Baton Pass, Body Slam, Double-Edge, Dual Wingbeat, Frustration, Future Sight, Hone Claws, Last Resort, Magic Coat, Mystical Fire, Outrage, Psycho Cut, Psyshock, Refresh, Return, Toxic, Tri Attack, Trick

:bw/kyogre:
Kyogre: Frustration, Heavy Slam, Iron Head, Liquidation, Return, Signal Beam, Toxic, Uproar

:bw/groudon:
Groudon: Body Slam, Counter, Double-Edge, Dragon Tail, Fire Punch, Frustration, Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, High Horsepower, Hone Claws, Iron Head, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Power-Up Punch, Return, Scorching Sands, Seismic Toss, Smack Down, Thunder Punch, Toxic, Uproar

:bw/rayquaza:
Rayquaza: Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Defog, Double-Edge, Dragon Tail, Earth Power, Frustration, Hone Claws, Hydro Pump, Iron Head, Return, Tailwind, Toxic, Uproar, V-create

:bw/deoxys: :bw/deoxys-attack: :bw/deoxys-defense: :bw/deoxys-speed: (NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THIS POST)
Deoxys: Body Slam, Detect, Double-Edge, Fire Punch, Frustration, Ice Punch, Low Kick, Magic Coat, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Power-Up Punch, Psyshock, Pursuit, Return, Seismic Toss, Signal Beam, Stomping Tantrum, Throat Chop, Thunder Punch, Toxic, Trick

:bw/dialga:
Dialga: Body Press, Body Slam, Dragon Tail, Frustration, Heavy Slam, Hone Claws, Hyper Voice, Iron Defense, Iron Head, Outrage, Return, Steel Beam, Toxic

:bw/palkia:
Palkia: Body Press, Body Slam, Dragon Tail, Dual Wingbeat, Frustration, Heavy Slam, Hone Claws, Hyper Voice, Liquidation, Outrage, Return, Toxic

:bw/heatran:
Heatran: Body Press, Body Slam, Eruption, Flame Charge, Frustration, Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, Iron Defense, Return, Scorching Sands, Steel Beam, Steel Roller, Toxic, Uproar

:bw/giratina: :bw/giratina-origin:
Giratina: Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Dragon Tail, Dual Wingbeat, Frustration, Hone Claws, Hyper Voice, Iron Head, Magic Coat, Outrage, Poltergeist, Return, Tailwind, Toxic

:bw/manaphy:
Manaphy: Ancient Power, Frustration, Heal Bell, Knock Off, Last Resort, Liquidation, Return, Signal Beam, Toxic, Uproar

:bw/darkrai: (NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THIS POST)
Darkrai: Frustration, Knock Off, Last Resort, Night Shade, Power-Up Punch, Pursuit, Return, Spacial Rend, Throat Chop, Toxic, Trick

:bw/shaymin: :bw/shaymin-sky: (NOT LEGITIMATELY AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THIS POST)
Shaymin: Air Slash, Earth Power, Endeavor, Frustration, Last Resort, Leaf Storm, Quick Attack, Return, Seed Bomb, Tailwind, Toxic, Zen Headbutt
Shaymin-Sky: Air Slash, Earth Power, Endeavor, Frustration, Headbutt, Last Resort, Leaf Storm, Quick Attack, Return, Seed Bomb, Tailwind, Toxic, Zen Headbutt

:bw/arceus: (NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THIS POST)
Arceus: Ancient Power, Aqua Tail, Frustration, Heat Wave, Hone Claws, Iron Defense, Iron Head, Last Resort, Liquidation, Magic Coat, Outrage, Psyshock, Refresh, Return, Signal Beam, Spacial Rend, Tailwind, Toxic, Trick, Zen Headbutt
Just to clarify, I sent the list to you, but I wasn't the one who made it, the credits all go to Kris, all I did was find it and send the link to you since I knee it would be useful to you haha

- Poltergeist Giratina-O; Steel no longer resisting Ghost is a dream come true
- Rayquaza with V-Create...yes. Spam CB.
Those two actually lost those moves, although I think CB Rayquaza still is a fantastic threat here as I'll ellaborate further. Not sure if you meant that on the next section either, but if it was about Stalltwo, Pressure also isn't avaliable for now, as Mewtwo is locked to its Hidden Ability Unnerve until Home or new events come. Kyogre also lost Toxic.

Rayquaza is an incredibly powerful threat here - webs Swords Dance straight up OHKOes the entire metagame when rocks are up and Extreme Speed is an incredibly valuable tool here where Nasty Plot Mewtwo and Scarf Kyogre are going around. Don't sleep on Choice Band either - lots of immediate power for both wallbreaking and revenge killing (as you're doing half to Mewtwo and Kyogre with Espeed). Flying and Dragon are also both very hard to switch into without a Steel-type, and all of them don't want to switch into either Earthquake or even lured by Overheat, imo the premier wallbreaker and revenge killer of the tier.

Another interesting Pokémon that I want to bring up is Abomasnow. Abomasnow can switch into Scarf Kyogrr due to resisting Water and Electric and taking neutral from Ice Beam while also removing rain - this was well known from before, but Abomasnow got a new toy in Aurora Veil. Aurora Veil is an incredibly powerful tool for offensive teams considering Abomasnow doesn't necessarily need to be a lead like most dual screens users, and Abomasnow can ve surprisingly capable with some choices like SubSeed, Wood Hammer, Blizzard, or Ice Shard due to those STABs hitting a pretty considerable amount of mons on Ubers super effectively. Of course, this is not as good as Gastrodon or some other Kyogre answers, but I wouldn't completely discard this either.
 
Metagame is good and fun just ban BP, clause Moody out.

Can confirm Ray is pretty strong via Band or just its usual sets. Manaphy is very strong on Webs. Definitely some cool options as far as Webs goes (SD Ray, SD Chomp, etc.) Tspikes while not as strong as its DPP Ubers counterpart due to the loss of them on Tentacruel, TSpikes Cloy Offenses are nice and NP Mewtwo, Gira, Ray appreciate them. Hazard removal in this format is pretty limited (I don't think Ho-Oh will be a good Defogger in the long run for example). Twave good in metagame as well.

Also Wobb doing its usual to supplement the dragons, Scarf Ogre, etc. Use it more.
 

Fusion Flare

LIVING IN A GODDAMN GARBAGE CAN???
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
1637955008423.png

Haven't seen much Baton Pass, but i did nearly get owned by this one fella with Moody Bibarel. So make of that what you will.

Spr_4h_235_s.pngSpr_4h_150.pngSpr_4d_384_s.png:dp/lucario:Spr_4p_483_s.pngSpr_4p_487O_s.png

I made this team day 1 of BDSP Ubers and it fucking rocks. Webs are absolutely cracked in this metagame. Even though Smeargle is the only good setter, I constantly have to fend off Ho-oh potentially just burning and killing me, the Smeargle mirror is just wack, Sub mons are just a terror in and of themselves, etc. But when I say that these teams are a terror, they are a terror indeed.

Mewtwo is even more cracked because it goes +2 and suddenly everything drops after rocks. Simple Plot + Psystrike-Aura-Ice Beam combo sweeps the tier., and its bulky enough to survive at least one priority move. Rayquza and Lucario gang up on Lugia so one can sweep unperterbed, while also doubling up on priority to beat down opposing HO. Dialga is the rocker, rocking a Shuca Berry to check Rayquaza in a pinch, or something. Im also going Dragon Pulse because i dont really need the power from Draco, and it also helps to be 100% accurate against sub users and Rayquaza. Finally, Giratina is yet another form of priority that also spinblocks and stuff. You get the gist.
 
Since this is BDSP Ubers, Ropalme1914 made a Pastebin for the case of convienence, and im just so happening to poston his behalf so enjoy lol

https://pastebin.com/raw/ymTJjPYm

:bw/mewtwo:
Mewtwo: Agility, Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Counter, Curse, Detect, Double-Edge, Expanding Force, Fire Punch, Foul Play, Frustration, Hurricane, Ice Punch, Low Kick, Magic Coat, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Power-Up Punch, Psyshock, Return, Seismic Toss, Signal Beam, Stored Power, Submission, Take Down, Teleport, Thunder Punch, Toxic, Tri Attack, Trick, Zen Headbutt

:bw/lugia:
Lugia: Air Slash, Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Curse, Detect, Double-Edge, Dragon Tail, Dual Wingbeat, Earth Power, Frustration, Hurricane, Hyper Voice, Iron Head, Psycho Boost, Psyshock, Return, Signal Beam, Tailwind, Toxic, Trick, Zen Headbutt

:bw/ho-oh:
Ho-Oh: Air Slash, Brave Bird, Curse, Detect, Double-Edge, Dual Wingbeat, Earth Power, Flame Charge, Flare Blitz, Frustration, Heat Wave, Hyper Voice, Iron Head, Return, Scorching Sands, Signal Beam, Tailwind, Toxic, Zen Headbutt

:bw/celebi: (NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THIS POST)
Celebi: Aura Sphere, Curse, Detect, Double-Edge, Dual Wingbeat, Earth Power, Expanding Force, Frustration, Last Resort, Leaf Blade, Magic Coat, Pollen Puff, Psycho Cut, Return, Seed Bomb, Signal Beam, Sucker Punch, Synthesis, Toxic, Trick, Uproar, Weather Ball, Zen Headbutt

:bw/latias:
Latias: Agility, Air Slash, Aura Sphere, Baton Pass, Body Slam, Double-Edge, Dragon Dance, Dual Wingbeat, Frustration, Future Sight, Hone Claws, Last Resort, Magic Coat, Mystical Fire, Outrage, Psycho Cut, Psyshock, Refresh, Return, Sucker Punch, Toxic, Tri Attack, Trick

:bw/latios:
Latios: Agility, Air Slash, Aura Sphere, Baton Pass, Body Slam, Double-Edge, Dual Wingbeat, Frustration, Future Sight, Hone Claws, Last Resort, Magic Coat, Mystical Fire, Outrage, Psycho Cut, Psyshock, Refresh, Return, Toxic, Tri Attack, Trick

:bw/kyogre:
Kyogre: Frustration, Heavy Slam, Iron Head, Liquidation, Return, Signal Beam, Toxic, Uproar

:bw/groudon:
Groudon: Body Slam, Counter, Double-Edge, Dragon Tail, Fire Punch, Frustration, Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, High Horsepower, Hone Claws, Iron Head, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Power-Up Punch, Return, Scorching Sands, Seismic Toss, Smack Down, Thunder Punch, Toxic, Uproar

:bw/rayquaza:
Rayquaza: Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Defog, Double-Edge, Dragon Tail, Earth Power, Frustration, Hone Claws, Hydro Pump, Iron Head, Return, Tailwind, Toxic, Uproar, V-create

:bw/deoxys: :bw/deoxys-attack: :bw/deoxys-defense: :bw/deoxys-speed: (NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THIS POST)
Deoxys: Body Slam, Detect, Double-Edge, Fire Punch, Frustration, Ice Punch, Low Kick, Magic Coat, Mega Kick, Mega Punch, Meteor Mash, Power-Up Punch, Psyshock, Pursuit, Return, Seismic Toss, Signal Beam, Stomping Tantrum, Throat Chop, Thunder Punch, Toxic, Trick

:bw/dialga:
Dialga: Body Press, Body Slam, Dragon Tail, Frustration, Heavy Slam, Hone Claws, Hyper Voice, Iron Defense, Iron Head, Outrage, Return, Steel Beam, Toxic

:bw/palkia:
Palkia: Body Press, Body Slam, Dragon Tail, Dual Wingbeat, Frustration, Heavy Slam, Hone Claws, Hyper Voice, Liquidation, Outrage, Return, Toxic

:bw/heatran:
Heatran: Body Press, Body Slam, Eruption, Flame Charge, Frustration, Heat Crash, Heavy Slam, Iron Defense, Return, Scorching Sands, Steel Beam, Steel Roller, Toxic, Uproar

:bw/giratina: :bw/giratina-origin:
Giratina: Aqua Tail, Body Slam, Dragon Tail, Dual Wingbeat, Frustration, Hone Claws, Hyper Voice, Iron Head, Magic Coat, Outrage, Poltergeist, Return, Tailwind, Toxic

:bw/manaphy:
Manaphy: Ancient Power, Frustration, Heal Bell, Knock Off, Last Resort, Liquidation, Return, Signal Beam, Toxic, Uproar

:bw/darkrai: (NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THIS POST)
Darkrai: Frustration, Knock Off, Last Resort, Night Shade, Power-Up Punch, Pursuit, Return, Spacial Rend, Throat Chop, Toxic, Trick

:bw/shaymin: :bw/shaymin-sky: (NOT LEGITIMATELY AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THIS POST)
Shaymin: Air Slash, Earth Power, Endeavor, Frustration, Last Resort, Leaf Storm, Quick Attack, Return, Seed Bomb, Tailwind, Toxic, Zen Headbutt
Shaymin-Sky: Air Slash, Earth Power, Endeavor, Frustration, Headbutt, Last Resort, Leaf Storm, Quick Attack, Return, Seed Bomb, Tailwind, Toxic, Zen Headbutt

:bw/arceus: (NOT AVAILABLE AT THE TIME OF THIS POST)
Arceus: Ancient Power, Aqua Tail, Frustration, Heat Wave, Hone Claws, Iron Defense, Iron Head, Last Resort, Liquidation, Magic Coat, Outrage, Psyshock, Refresh, Return, Signal Beam, Spacial Rend, Tailwind, Toxic, Trick, Zen Headbutt
Not super relevant right now because of legitimate unavailability, but Shaymin doesn't lose Air Slash or Leaf Storm according to the data dumps. Losing Air Slash would be a *crippling* nerf to Shaymin-S's viability, lol.
 

May

Need a cuppa...
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So I am by no means a good player, like, at all, but I've been enjoying this tier quite a bit! Takes me back a bit and the limited format feels nice. It's not often that I find myself enjoying the Focus Blast generations these days--

I thought I'd share a suicide Drapion set I've been using on a Lugia team;
:ss/drapion:
Drapion @ Focus Sash
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe (outspeeds max base-90s, nothing special)
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Whirlwind
- Taunt
- Toxic Spikes

I believe something similar was used at some point in DP a long time ago, whether it was a false memory or something is another ballgame though, I haven't played anything Gen 4-related since I was what, 11? Anyway, whatever it is, it's partly what led to me making this set. Manaphy and the abundance of Defoggers have been dampening it down, but it gets some great work done against the typical Stealth Rock setters that are running around; Dialga, Groudon, etc, really annoying. It's got juuuust the right Speed to get uncontested Knock Offs regularly, which is by far its biggest draw for me, as a lot of sets I've been seeing rely heavily on items. Whirlwind helps it be self-sufficient with Toxic Spikes, and getting the Toxic off on Kyogre early is huge, like, wow, so this is super helpful. Getting all the layers is somewhat difficult though, I prefer to start doing it off of a double or something rather than outright where the risk is high. I've found it works really well with Lugia in particular, mainly because Toxic isn't exactly in good supply right now, and that's half of what it needs to work well. Just pretty neat, really!

It's definitely not a great pick, the main issue is getting everything set up. Sash helps but is obviously not a miracle worker, it takes heavy damage from a ton of stuff (maybe the EVs could be tweaked), and naturally any Poison-type or Defogger can be a massive pain. If you see a Poison-type you have to remove it before Drapion can do work, though Knock Off is great against most of them in my experience. I do think it has potential, but it's just that: potential, and I'm not great!

Here it is going on a single player adventure against a Baton Pass team...not a good replay, just funny.
 
First of all
:bw/gastrodon:
Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Mirror Coat
- Scald
- Earth Power
Ice Beam > Earth Power. Giving free setup to Rayquaza is very bad, you need a way to hit it. Plus, every mon that Earth Power hits harder is probably just a Mirror Coat target. It also hits Giratina-O harder which is nice. Anyway moving on to the main points of this post.

:bw/blissey:
Okay so I've been wondering: What's up with Blissey? The OP talks about it a ton (I think it gets mentioned even more than other Ubers) yet I haven't seen a single one on ladder and no one else has said a word about it. Well truth is, Blissey is kinda bad. The BDSP changes have not been kind to it and the meta doesn't let it thrive very much. It lost all three of Wish, Toxic and Teleport and the only mons it really walls that are tough to deal with otherwise are Choice Specs Palkia/Dialga and even those can be played around decently. Outside of that, you'll prefer dealing with most special attackers through Gastrodon, Dialga and some other Steels or Fairies which I may have less experience with. Kyogre and the dragon legends are really the only big special attackers in the format and they're not overwhelming enough to need a Blissey to deal with them (Or in Kyogre's case, Blissey just does not work). However, pokemon that hit on the physical side are far bigger threats, especially when it comes to sweeping. Psystrike Mewtwo, Double Dance Groudon and Rayquaza can all setup and mow through teams quite easily. Having one of your teamslots dedicated to Blissey which can't deal with those huge threats while also not being very needed for the special ones is just generally a bad idea. Blissey is also more passive than ever due to the loss of Toxic. The generally high HP in the meta means Seismic Toss doesn't deal a lot and most threats can just switch-in, only having to worry about a paralysis. It also lost Wish which was helpful to sustain pokemon like Giratina or Dialga that enjoy longevity. It's a decent status absorber, but that's not that great of a role if you're also pretty bad everywhere else. Clefable does that better and also has access to Wish, Moonblast to threaten Dragons and some other good traits such as its fairy typing. I don't see much use for Blissey in the current meta due to it not being needed so much and I think pokemon like Gastrodon or Clefable can fit better on teams as Spdef walls.


Anyway let's move on to a totally unrelated subject: the team I've been using. It's actually been surprisingly consistent for the first team I've built for this format.
:bw/mewtwo::bw/gastrodon::bw/dialga::bw/kyogre::bw/giratina-origin::bw/xatu: Click me or sprites for import!
:mewtwo:Mewtwo: I already talked about this in my previous post. Finding setup opportunities is pretty difficult, but switching in after losing something to a Draco works well in general. I run Aura Sphere over Focus Blast for consistency, but Focus Blast has the useful application of being able one-shot certain Dialgas without a boost which is nice. That's all I have to say about it.

:gastrodon:Gastrodon: You may have figured out by now that I'm a huge Gastrodon simp. I really think it's that good since it can wall most special attackers besides Specs Dragons and makes it really hard for Groudon and Rayquaza to setup. That leaves Mewtwo as one of the pokemon it has the most trouble with. Fortunately, Kyogre and Giratina are on this team to deal with that.

:dialga:Dialga: I have a lot to say about Dialga actually. It doesn't shine often or stand out unlike most other mons, but I think it stands as arguably top 3 in the meta. It's extremely good at setting rocks and keeping them on the field since hazard removal isn't easy to fit and Dialga can threaten most Defoggers or Spinners quite well. Against Lugia and Ho-Oh, it just needs to hit a Thunder para. It can force a lose/lose situation with those two where the opponent has to either let you get rocks or get their bird paralyzed (Keep in mind Dialga can also straight up win the 1v1 through full paras at that point too). Giratina gets hits hard by Draco, Forretress dies to Fire Blast and every other spinner or defogger that I can think of probably doesn't have anywhere near the bulk to take Dialga on. Having basically guaranteed rocks for yourself is HUGE. It's also excellent at checking dragons and Kyogre, though it can't stop them forever. It can check a lot of mons actually due to its great typing, good bulk and excellent coverage. It lacks longevity though, but it still does its job very well regardless. I've also ran into a Spdef set with Roar which was extremely annoying and was able to rack up Rocks chip very well while still annoying most hazard removal through Dragon Pulse+Thunder. I haven't seen too much from choiced sets or Adamant Orb (If that's a set), but I imagine they can still put in quite a bit of work. Yeah basically I like Dialga and it's very good on this team.

:kyogre:Kyogre: Kyogre is also an excellent pokemon in this meta. Choice Water Spout is obviously ridiculously powerful, though I think Scarf is better than Specs here. Scarf already destroys most offensive pokemon with ease while keeping a very good 450+ speed stat and I feel like, if you're going to get walled by Gastrodon, might as well be useful for checking offensive pokemon rather than just wallbreaking but falling flat against prepped teams. I use it to OHKO and outspeed Mewtwo from full with Water Spout even after rocks which, from my calcs, is usually pretty hard to do, so it's nice to have something reliable to take that mon out. I don't actually have that much else to say about Kyogre, you know what it does. I've seen Resttalk and Calm Mind sets which can be nice, but I can't give a good opinion of how they perform yet.

:giratina-origin:Giratina-O: Giratina-O is very important to Defog and to have some way to work around physical attackers/sweepers. Levitate is great as it allows it to avoid Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Sticky Web and Earthquakes from Groudon and Ho-Oh, allowing it to counter or pivot around them. Some kind of status is absolutely needed to answer Rayquaza and Groudon and Will-O-Wisp is the best tool for the job. Once burned, they will be easier to deal with, you'll be able to kill them with another one of your mons or outright take them out with Hex. I've also seen a surprising amount of people switch their Mewtwo into it and I'm not sure why, but Hex into Shadow Sneak kills most of the time so I guess that works out?? Anyway yeah Giratina-O just answers a lot of stuff.

:xatu:Xatu: Yes this set sucks. Defog is probably not needed, but it's gonna be passive no matter what so idk if adding an attacking move will change anything. Anyway this is basically there to trivialize Baton Pass, Webs and annoying mons like Smeargle and Forretress in general. It can also pivot which is nice. It's also a decent sac if I want to get Mewtwo to set up on a -2 dragon or something. The team works pretty well with just 5 mons so I felt adding some way to strengthen matchups against less standard archetypes would be a good idea. Someone can probably make a better set for this though, so you're welcome to try your hand at Xatu movesets and spreads.


Anyway I don't really have anything else to talk about so I guess that's the end of the post.
 
Couple of things I played around with so far.

:groudon::dialga::ho-oh::rayquaza::giratina-origin::mewtwo:

Sort of a quick sun balance I put together when this was starting up with Paraspam for speed control. Scarf Mewtwo for additional speed control and to not be totally floored by things like Scarf Ogre. Ho-Oh bit of a trashy mon without Brave Bird but with sun boosted Sacred Fires it can get the job done.

:smeargle::kyogre::mewtwo::rayquaza::manaphy::garchomp:

Manaphy Webs. Plays fine but need to be very careful to assure Webs are up and that you dont let opposing Rayquaza set up for free. It was originally Nasty Plot Mewtwo but it had to be Taunt to cover a couple of the Defoggers trying to remove Webs such as Lugia.

:mewtwo::rayquaza::groudon::garchomp::cloyster::giratina-origin:

ScreensMewtwo. Need to be careful against ScarfOgre, otherwise Double Dance Don is very threatening in this format behind screens. Ditto is also dangerous against the team but for some reason people aren't using it when it's good and covers a bunch of matchups.

:kyogre::forretress::dialga::ditto::rayquaza::blissey:

Two Blobs and a CM Ogre. This is more BP proof than others simply cause of Ditto.

EVs probably need to be optimized but some ideas people can play around with/build their own versions.
 
Last edited:
I want to talk a little about an unconventional pick that I've had a lot of success with in Ubers as of late. Tentacruel has been an excellent utility mon that has acted as a team glue/role compression utility tank and synergizes well with many members of the Ubers metagame. It is also quite adept at handling some severely annoying offensive and support Pokemon that my teams have problems engaging.

Tentacruel

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off
- Scald
- Protect / Rest​

You're probably wondering, "why would you pick Tentacruel, didn't he lose Toxic Spikes?" Absolutely, but it turns out, Tentacruel didn't need Toxic Spikes to be successful in Ubers. Instead, Tentacruel has just the proper stat spread to work as a nice tanky spinner/utility Pokemon in Ubers that handles specifically frustrating Ubers set variants.

Let's start with the EVs first. Tentacruel has an excellent speed stat of base 100, which outpaces the base 90 laden Ubers metagame. Additionally, 16 EVs bring Tentacruel up to a respectable 240 Speed, meaning it outpaces the slew of uninvested base 90 and 100 speed Pokemon and hits some other vital speed benchmarks as well. Tentacruel's Physical bulk is often viewed as a downside, but this couldn't be further from the truth with investment. Tentacruel's investment here allows it to have 364 HP, 248 Defense, 276 Special Defense, meaning that it's all around tanky thanks to a usable HP stat. However, these specific EVs allow Tentacruel to survive crucial hits at essential benchmarks. To give you an idea of the types of attacks Tentacruel can handle attacks on both defensive ends with this spread, here are some calcs (both conventional and unconventional, I'll get to this in the next paragraph).

252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 115-140 (31.5 - 38.4%) -- approx. 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 230-275 (63.1 - 75.5%) -- approx. 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Dialga Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 169-201 (46.4 - 55.2%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel in Rain: 175-207 (48 - 56.8%) -- 2.3% chance to 2HKO after Rain Dish recovery and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel in Rain: 287-338 (78.8 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Rain Dish recovery and Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 64-76 (17.5 - 20.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Lugia Aeroblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 84-100 (23 - 27.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 SpA Lugia Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 152-182 (41.7 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
0 Atk Lugia Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 126-150 (34.6 - 41.2%) -- 70.8% chance to 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Groudon Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 165-195 (45.3 - 53.5%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Giratina Shadow Force vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Tentacruel: 156-184 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Palkia Thunder vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 228-270 (62.6 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Lustrous Orb Palkia Spacial Rend vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 186-220 (51 - 60.4%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Griseous Orb Giratina-Origin Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tentacruel: 226-267 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

So now that you see that Tentacruel can take some hits, you're probably wondering, "all right, so Tentacruel can take a hit, what can it do?" To understand what it can do, we need to talk about what Pokemon Tentacruel sits on. Nearly all variants of Lugia except for extremely niche builds are practically useless in the face of Tentacruel. Tentacruel is immune to Toxic, recovers quickly with Black Sludge (even more so if Kyogre's rain is up thanks to Rain Dish), can cripple Lugia with Knock Off then further wear it down with Scald and an eventual burn chance. Thanks to Tentacruel's moveset here having high PP (Rapid Spin with 64, Knock Off with 32, Scald with 24, and Protect with 16), stalling Tentacruel out generally isn't worth it as you're still essentially throwing away a Lugia (especially if you're running the Rest variant of this set, but I'll get to that). Cloyster cannot switch into this Tentacruel set without risking losing White Herb / getting a burn from Scald. Knock Off cripples scarf Water Spout Kyogre, and Kyogre's rain works against it, giving Tentacruel even more healing. Protect also allows Tentacruel to get even more double healing against opposing Kyogre and to scout moves post-Scarf Knock Off. Giratina-Altered does not like Knock Off nor sustained wear down from Scald + Scald Burns and can't do much to Tentacruel in return, even with unconventional fully invested Attack sets not being able to 2HKO it. Giratina-Origin can 2HKO it with standard mixed sets but hates Scald burns as well.

There are many other sets that Tentacruel handles in this vein, especially support-based sets and choice-locked sets. Tentacruel dismantles standard bulky support Pokemon and stretches its defensive profile wide enough to handle some scary offensive Pokemon as well, such as Choice Scarf Water Spout Kyogre and Shell Smash Cloyster (depending on the condition of your Tentacruel and your prediction game). But you're probably wondering, "why would some of these Pokemon even switch in, to begin with?" It's simple, and where the role compression I mentioned at the beginning comes into play, Rapid Spin. Rapid Spin raises Tentacruel's speed and necessitates the opposing team's need to switch in their spinblocker, which Tentacruel can generally sit on. The speed boost from Rapid Spin (assuming Giratina doesn't switch in, which Tentacruel would love to have Giratina switch in for other reasons I mentioned anyways) will also give Tentacruel additional opportunities as well! Compressing excellent defensive utility, a good defensive typing, Knock Off alongside Rapid Spin, and remarkable double passive recovery in a Kyogre infested meta means that Tentacruel is a monster, a more passive monster but a monster nonetheless. Tentacruel's Water / Poison typing does mean that Psychic, Electric, and Ground moves sting. Still, it also means that Water, Poison, Ice, Fighting, Bug, Fairy, Steel, and Fire attacks get soaked up as well, which means that the few Fairy types running around Ubers don't like coming into Tentacruel with a couple of niche exceptions. This also means that Tentacruel is one of the few Water-types with a neutrality to Grass-type attacks (not CURRENTLY too helpful for much else other than Pokemon like Tangrowth, but it will be once Pokemon like Arceus and Shaymin-Sky drop in the tier and does help with certain key mons on opposing Sun teams). Black Sludge is also a nasty surprise for various Pokemon that utilize Trick and Switcheroo, meaning that your opponent won't get free Leftovers; it will get a self-imposed Black Sludge damage timer (especially at lower health).

The last choice between Protect / Rest is tough to make, but I've generally found that Protect is better than Rest in the current meta. Protect not only allows Tentacruel to abuse Dry Skin / Black Sludge double recovery (allowing it to overcome specific benchmarks that it wouldn't usually be able to as long as rain is up), but the additional scouting for off-beat variants is crucial. Lack of Recover or another similar move hurts, but it's not uncommon to run Wish passing sets in Ubers, so I've never found it to be too much of an issue, especially with this Tentacruel set. However, if you feel that Tentacruel can't rely on Wish Passing or there's no room for a Wish Passer on your team, Rest can be viable for its status healing/instant full recovery.

The short and skinny is, don't sleep on Tentacruel. This Pokemon has amazingly untapped potential in the Ubers metagame and needs more experimentation to work out its perceived shortcomings.
 
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Would like to see some replays. I dont think that mon is very good, lot of the calcs in some instances are unrealistic (Lugia is not running EQ just one example) if not proving why it shouldnt be used, and it loses to a lot of the good stuff in the format (Mewtwo one key example).
 
Would like to see some replays. I dont think that mon is very good, lot of the calcs in some instances are unrealistic (Lugia is not running EQ just one example) if not proving why it shouldnt be used, and it loses to a lot of the good stuff in the format (Mewtwo one key example).
Sure I'll grab some replays, but if you're leaving your Tentacruel in against a Mewtwo, you're going to have a bad time (and Mewtwo still has to be wary when it switches in thanks to Knock Off anyways). It's about how much you pressure a lot of the bulkier, slower side of the Ubers meta with this Tentacruel set, fast offensive Psychic types and Ground types will always be answers, but even they have to be wary of the switch-in, and the Pokemon that this Tentacruel handles more than justifies using it IMO (Lugia, Scarf Kyogre, etc). This is also in addition to Tentacruel's wonderful role compression (never underestimate the utility of having Knock Off / Rapid Spin on the same set).

As I mentioned in the OG post, the calcs were specifically to show that even with unconventional niche picks (aka EQ on Lugia), Tentacruel can handle most variants of certain Pokemon, even the most off the wall random variants.
 
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