I don't want to nitpick too much about it, because a lot of the calcs are not practical the Draco one on Dialga is implying its SpDef which are running Thunder and will click that and not Draco in front of Tentacruel, offensive ones doing tons more damage. I have already considered Tentacruel and dropped it in favor of another mon/ Defogger/ something that doesnt autolose to BP because spinning in this format I find is useless with Giratina being common. Tentacruel makes your structures weaker to Don as well, a very good mon offensively, loses to the Sub set up sweepers as well for minimal tradeoff. The bulkier builds are already pressured well enough with the combination of top tier mons. If Tenta had access to Tspikes it would be more of a sell, but because it doesnt it looks like complete deadweight against any normal structure.
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Metagame BDSP Ubers
- Thread starter Fc
- Start date
That's the thing though, Tentacruel is not meant to stay in on certain Pokemon like that. Generally, I'll have Tentacruel switch in on a predicted Dialga's Draco Meteor, giving Dialga the -2 to SpA, meaning that I can Knock Off Dialga's Leftovers and Rapid Spin, as once it's at -2, it can't even 4HKO Tentacruel with Thunder (which is important thanks to the Draco Meteor calc I listed in the first post). Tentacruel is outspeeding and doing what needs to be done against Dialga.
-2 0 SpA Dialga Thunder vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tentacruel: 98-116 (26.9 - 31.8%) -- 37.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
In addition to this, if Dialga switches out, something is getting an item Knock Off'd or something risks a Scald burn. Giratina being so common is exactly why I've been running Tentacruel so much actually. Yeah Groudon is a thorn in Tentacruel's side, but there are plenty of Don switch-ins, and non-boosting variants are generally outsped by Tentacruel and risk a Scald burn or losing an item.
I feel like you're equating Tentacruel more on the same level as the heavy-hitting utility mons in Ubers rather than the role compression spinning tank support role that this Tentacruel occupies, along with having nice tools to wear down spinblockers and certain other Ubers nuisances.
I also don't really see the relevance of some of those calcs. Why is there a Stone Edge Groudon calc there, a move on the strongest Ground-type in the tier? Or the Specs Kyogre one, taking 80% from a wallbreaker that's faster than you? The Lugia calcs are also irrelevant, if you're facing a offensive one, you're CM bait, and at most you're getting a burn off to negate Multiscale or remove its Leftovers. I also had theorized Tentacruel before the meta released (and we fully knew the movepool cuts), but at least based on the post, I don't really getting anything too useful from it outside of maybe Knock Off.
Couple of things I played around with so far.
Sort of a quick sun balance I put together when this was starting up with Paraspam for speed control. Scarf Mewtwo for additional speed control and to not be totally floored by things like Scarf Ogre. Ho-Oh bit of a trashy mon without Brave Bird but with sun boosted Sacred Fires it can get the job done.
Manaphy Webs. Plays fine but need to be very careful to assure Webs are up and that you dont let opposing Rayquaza set up for free. It was originally Nasty Plot Mewtwo but it had to be Taunt to cover a couple of the Defoggers trying to remove Webs such as Lugia.
ScreensMewtwo. Need to be careful against ScarfOgre, otherwise Double Dance Don is very threatening in this format behind screens. Ditto is also dangerous against the team but for some reason people aren't using it when it's good and covers a bunch of matchups.
Two Blobs and a CM Ogre. This is more BP proof than others simply cause of Ditto.
EVs probably need to be optimized but some ideas people can play around with/build their own versions.
I think you forgot the Manaphy Webs paste
haven't played mons in a few months, especially smogon formats but wanted to play this after watching a lot of videos on the real dpp ubers (ofc by bkc). DPP ubers looked like a really fun tier and expected this to be of similar enjoyment. i was wrong. Regardless, i have been almost exclusively using a team i made in the first couple of days, and edited from then. Figured i would share it cuz i have some thoughts i wanted to share.
The Team
not perfect by any means, but i think it has the capability to win almost any mu, outside of shednija stall- ive tilted so hard from that shit. im sure edits can be made to optimise this mu and others.
Mewtwo- No darkrai, less dark types in general, np, Psystrike, and notable lack of important steel, such as rachi and zong on ladder, makes mewtwo crazy good compared to its gen 4 counterpart. Not too much else to say that hasn't already said in this thread. However, i want to mention i have been experimenting with specs and Kasab berry on other teams with pretty good success.
Kyogre- Another mon that got substantially better compared to gen 4. No latis means less options to check the whale. despite this, i am still using a cm twave set. This is mainly for palkia and dialga as paralysing them means they can be outsped by the rest of the team. Especially in instance of scarf dragons, twave is particularly useful for mewtwo as they would often be the things to revenge it. It should be noted that this is not a set in stone set my any means. I have tested multiple sets, including specs, cm 3 attacks, sub cm, and even scarf. The set in the paste in merely set in rotation of testing. If anyone uses this team, I implore you to test a variety of sets to see what you like best. While scarf seems to be the best right now, cm sets have good merit in being able to somewhat get past Gastrodon.
Dialga- Dialga is good. There will never be a time that is is not good. I have generally seen rocks leftiez sets on ladder and for good reason. Its support for a team is really good. But i would love to see more specs sets and other stuff, especially because (as mentioned before) there is less rachi and zong (i could be wrong on theses 2 having less usage, but it definitely looks that way). Dialga is a top 2 mon.
Skarmory- Spikes are really good, especially on this team as it really helps out things like mewtwo, rp groudon and giratina. soft checks dragons and shit, as well as being a really good answer to groudon and chomp, the latter being a mon that i think should see more usage. Whirlwind is also nice with spikes and helps in the mu vs bp and all that. I think its a really solid mon in this meta for those reasons.
Groudon- As i said just above, rp don appreciates the spikes especially cuz its jolly. Groudon also appreciated the lack of latis. not too much to say again. Really wanna get to the next mon
Giratina- @ choice scarf. I think this is a pretty cool set. I saw it in some BKC video, so when it came to building for this gen i kept it in mind. Giratina is good good in general, mainly due to steel no longer resisting ghost. This greatly helps scarf gira to clean up and revenge mons. with chip (admittedly a decent amount of chip) gira can act as a really good check to mewtwo, which is terrorising the tier. This set is so good against ur standard webs offense. If we take a look at the webs ho posted earlier in this thread by Fusion Flare, gira fucks luc, ray, mewtwo and is far from dead weight vs dialga and gira o. This type of structure is pretty common. This one has defog which seems weird with spikes but against webs it can get rid of them in a pinch. its also a nice check to kyogre. Again, i implore you to use this mon and test it for yourself as its often surprising how good it can be in some mu s.
also please ban moody. Is rather unenjoyable
also also i hope i formatted stuff right
The Team
not perfect by any means, but i think it has the capability to win almost any mu, outside of shednija stall- ive tilted so hard from that shit. im sure edits can be made to optimise this mu and others.
Mewtwo- No darkrai, less dark types in general, np, Psystrike, and notable lack of important steel, such as rachi and zong on ladder, makes mewtwo crazy good compared to its gen 4 counterpart. Not too much else to say that hasn't already said in this thread. However, i want to mention i have been experimenting with specs and Kasab berry on other teams with pretty good success.
Kyogre- Another mon that got substantially better compared to gen 4. No latis means less options to check the whale. despite this, i am still using a cm twave set. This is mainly for palkia and dialga as paralysing them means they can be outsped by the rest of the team. Especially in instance of scarf dragons, twave is particularly useful for mewtwo as they would often be the things to revenge it. It should be noted that this is not a set in stone set my any means. I have tested multiple sets, including specs, cm 3 attacks, sub cm, and even scarf. The set in the paste in merely set in rotation of testing. If anyone uses this team, I implore you to test a variety of sets to see what you like best. While scarf seems to be the best right now, cm sets have good merit in being able to somewhat get past Gastrodon.
Dialga- Dialga is good. There will never be a time that is is not good. I have generally seen rocks leftiez sets on ladder and for good reason. Its support for a team is really good. But i would love to see more specs sets and other stuff, especially because (as mentioned before) there is less rachi and zong (i could be wrong on theses 2 having less usage, but it definitely looks that way). Dialga is a top 2 mon.
Skarmory- Spikes are really good, especially on this team as it really helps out things like mewtwo, rp groudon and giratina. soft checks dragons and shit, as well as being a really good answer to groudon and chomp, the latter being a mon that i think should see more usage. Whirlwind is also nice with spikes and helps in the mu vs bp and all that. I think its a really solid mon in this meta for those reasons.
Groudon- As i said just above, rp don appreciates the spikes especially cuz its jolly. Groudon also appreciated the lack of latis. not too much to say again. Really wanna get to the next mon
Giratina- @ choice scarf. I think this is a pretty cool set. I saw it in some BKC video, so when it came to building for this gen i kept it in mind. Giratina is good good in general, mainly due to steel no longer resisting ghost. This greatly helps scarf gira to clean up and revenge mons. with chip (admittedly a decent amount of chip) gira can act as a really good check to mewtwo, which is terrorising the tier. This set is so good against ur standard webs offense. If we take a look at the webs ho posted earlier in this thread by Fusion Flare, gira fucks luc, ray, mewtwo and is far from dead weight vs dialga and gira o. This type of structure is pretty common. This one has defog which seems weird with spikes but against webs it can get rid of them in a pinch. its also a nice check to kyogre. Again, i implore you to use this mon and test it for yourself as its often surprising how good it can be in some mu s.
also please ban moody. Is rather unenjoyable
also also i hope i formatted stuff right
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The BDSP Ubers council has voted unanimously to Ban Baton Pass from the tier.
As most people are aware of, Baton Pass is a rather one dimensional gameplay style focused on the Baton Pass user simply trying to create a chain of stat boosts to pass to a sweeper. It's unfun to play against and extremely cheesy with elements such as Shell Smash + Baton Pass Smeargle being around.
I'm sure we'll hear a few complaints about Moody so I'd like to address those quickly. Moody will likely still be going on our radar moving forward, but without Baton Pass at play it should severely limit the potential it has to string together game ending boost chains, as all the Moody users available in the tier are significantly below the power level of the common Ubers threats. As such, it was easily dismissed as a lesser priority during this vote.
Tagging Kris to implement this, thanks!
As most people are aware of, Baton Pass is a rather one dimensional gameplay style focused on the Baton Pass user simply trying to create a chain of stat boosts to pass to a sweeper. It's unfun to play against and extremely cheesy with elements such as Shell Smash + Baton Pass Smeargle being around.
I'm sure we'll hear a few complaints about Moody so I'd like to address those quickly. Moody will likely still be going on our radar moving forward, but without Baton Pass at play it should severely limit the potential it has to string together game ending boost chains, as all the Moody users available in the tier are significantly below the power level of the common Ubers threats. As such, it was easily dismissed as a lesser priority during this vote.
Tagging Kris to implement this, thanks!
Of the absences versus the original DPP, few are quite as notable as Darkrai; until such time as it gets patched in, Ubers will be without its one (natural) Dark type. And it's a shame since the BDSP Ubers meta is actually primed to be a good place for Dark types atm; Fairies are virtually non-existent, U-turn is heavily restricted and the few relevant Fighting types are not the easiest to fit on teams. So without any Legendary Darks, who is the best Dark type for this tier?
One might think Tyranitar would be the next best Dark type given its DPP legacy, but it isn't the most promising. Compared to DPP, Ttar has lost 2 big edges- the lack of permanent weather means it needs to stay alive for longer in a meta where Groudon and Kyogre are rampant, and the loss of Pursuit makes it less reliable at chipping key targets. Sacred Fire Ho-Oh and Wisp on Gira being so present do it no favors, and most Garchomp would prefer Rough Skin over Sand Veil since it's not support reliant to get use out of it. As such, my focus shifted to 2 other Dark types.
Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe; Jolly Nature
-Icicle Crash
-Throat Chop
-Ice Shard
-Beat Up/Poison Jab/Focus Punch (?)
Weavile also seems pretty good, and tbf it does inherently hold several advantages in this meta: great Speed tier, Ice STAB in a meta of Dragons, STAB priority, SD to boost up, what doesn't it have? Well atm, Knock Off and Low Kick. These two absences are obviously gonna kneecap its damage potential alongside going back to Icicle Crash as main Ice STAB. Choice Band does help offset this a bit, as can be seen here.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspubers-1464178566
You may notice that Weavile never comes back out after Turn 2. That brings me to what really hurts Weavile in Ubers: its inability to take a hit. Its frailty and the general offensive pace of the meta mean Weavile almost never gets the chance to set up with SD, which is why I gravitated to Band. And even with Band, Weavile is, at least in my experience, only really useful as an attacker that gives you an early lead as you basically fold to anything if you don't KO, even losing to things it should beat like Rayquaza thanks to Espeed. So either you mainly use it as a lead, endgame cleaner or you need proper support to safely get it in; Forretress is probably a good partner due to pivoting and hazard control. For the 4th move, Beat Up allows you to bypass Sash and provide a potentially stronger Dark STAB, Poison Jab can provide extra chip and hit rare Clefable; you basically need Focus Punch if you want to smack Dialga since Crash hits harder than Brick Break. Weavile has potential, but pre-Home it is very flawed. Maybe Sash with SD could work?
Sample team: Dark Lead (pokepast.es)
If only there was a more consistent option.
Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD; Bold Nature
-Wish
-Protect
-Yawn
-Foul Play
Yes, really. Umbreon may currently be the best Dark type in BDSP Ubers. With the movepool cuts pre-Home, Umbreon is currently the overall bulkiest Wish user in the meta, which is great given SE moves aren't too common right now and Toxic is practically nonexistent. It's movepool, while limited, is perfect for exerting pressure in the offensive meta- Foul Play and Yawn prey on the bevy of physical sweepers while physical investment gives it the bulk to avoid a 2HKO from anything weaker than Banded Rayquaza. Protect is important for Wish, but it also allows Umbreon to scout and PP stall dangerous attacks like Ho-Oh's Sacred Fire. Getting burnt isn't ideal for Foul Play damage, but Synchronize means Gira O needs to think twice before firing off a Wisp (plus Umbreon sits on Gira's Ghost STAB).
More importantly than keeping itself healthy, Wish allows for Wishing up teammates. To put things in perspective, the big trios of Hoen and Sinnoh both lack any form of recovery outside of Leftovers and Rest, as do certain support mons like Forretress, and most of them have base HP around the 95 benchmark. This includes Kyogre, whose HP is important for the single scariest attack in the meta, and Palkia, who is best at stomaching that attack sans immunity abilities. Wish can also make defensive Dialga even trickier to break and make Rayquaza and Ho-Oh less limited by Rocks. In general Umbreon is a surprisingly good partner for the various Ubers mons, using Yawn + Foul Play to create set up opportunities or chip down sweepers enough to be safely revenge killed by Sneak Gira- O or Espeed Rayquaza.
When Umbreon gets free turns: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspubers-1463352612
Still works with burn: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspubers-1463496513
Umbreon can be overwhelmed if not played carefully, but it is in my experience the most consistent available Dark type by far. Here's the team I used: Dark Medic (pokepast.es)
Brief thoughts on other Wish users.
One might think Tyranitar would be the next best Dark type given its DPP legacy, but it isn't the most promising. Compared to DPP, Ttar has lost 2 big edges- the lack of permanent weather means it needs to stay alive for longer in a meta where Groudon and Kyogre are rampant, and the loss of Pursuit makes it less reliable at chipping key targets. Sacred Fire Ho-Oh and Wisp on Gira being so present do it no favors, and most Garchomp would prefer Rough Skin over Sand Veil since it's not support reliant to get use out of it. As such, my focus shifted to 2 other Dark types.
Weavile @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe; Jolly Nature
-Icicle Crash
-Throat Chop
-Ice Shard
-Beat Up/Poison Jab/Focus Punch (?)
Weavile also seems pretty good, and tbf it does inherently hold several advantages in this meta: great Speed tier, Ice STAB in a meta of Dragons, STAB priority, SD to boost up, what doesn't it have? Well atm, Knock Off and Low Kick. These two absences are obviously gonna kneecap its damage potential alongside going back to Icicle Crash as main Ice STAB. Choice Band does help offset this a bit, as can be seen here.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspubers-1464178566
You may notice that Weavile never comes back out after Turn 2. That brings me to what really hurts Weavile in Ubers: its inability to take a hit. Its frailty and the general offensive pace of the meta mean Weavile almost never gets the chance to set up with SD, which is why I gravitated to Band. And even with Band, Weavile is, at least in my experience, only really useful as an attacker that gives you an early lead as you basically fold to anything if you don't KO, even losing to things it should beat like Rayquaza thanks to Espeed. So either you mainly use it as a lead, endgame cleaner or you need proper support to safely get it in; Forretress is probably a good partner due to pivoting and hazard control. For the 4th move, Beat Up allows you to bypass Sash and provide a potentially stronger Dark STAB, Poison Jab can provide extra chip and hit rare Clefable; you basically need Focus Punch if you want to smack Dialga since Crash hits harder than Brick Break. Weavile has potential, but pre-Home it is very flawed. Maybe Sash with SD could work?
Sample team: Dark Lead (pokepast.es)
If only there was a more consistent option.
Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD; Bold Nature
-Wish
-Protect
-Yawn
-Foul Play
Yes, really. Umbreon may currently be the best Dark type in BDSP Ubers. With the movepool cuts pre-Home, Umbreon is currently the overall bulkiest Wish user in the meta, which is great given SE moves aren't too common right now and Toxic is practically nonexistent. It's movepool, while limited, is perfect for exerting pressure in the offensive meta- Foul Play and Yawn prey on the bevy of physical sweepers while physical investment gives it the bulk to avoid a 2HKO from anything weaker than Banded Rayquaza. Protect is important for Wish, but it also allows Umbreon to scout and PP stall dangerous attacks like Ho-Oh's Sacred Fire. Getting burnt isn't ideal for Foul Play damage, but Synchronize means Gira O needs to think twice before firing off a Wisp (plus Umbreon sits on Gira's Ghost STAB).
More importantly than keeping itself healthy, Wish allows for Wishing up teammates. To put things in perspective, the big trios of Hoen and Sinnoh both lack any form of recovery outside of Leftovers and Rest, as do certain support mons like Forretress, and most of them have base HP around the 95 benchmark. This includes Kyogre, whose HP is important for the single scariest attack in the meta, and Palkia, who is best at stomaching that attack sans immunity abilities. Wish can also make defensive Dialga even trickier to break and make Rayquaza and Ho-Oh less limited by Rocks. In general Umbreon is a surprisingly good partner for the various Ubers mons, using Yawn + Foul Play to create set up opportunities or chip down sweepers enough to be safely revenge killed by Sneak Gira- O or Espeed Rayquaza.
When Umbreon gets free turns: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspubers-1463352612
Still works with burn: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspubers-1463496513
Umbreon can be overwhelmed if not played carefully, but it is in my experience the most consistent available Dark type by far. Here's the team I used: Dark Medic (pokepast.es)
Brief thoughts on other Wish users.
- Clefable is the other Wish user I'd say is viable in this setting. Clef has Fairy type to help curb Dragon spam, packs several good utility options in Aromatherapy, Stealth Rock and Encore, and can use Unaware to help with sweepers or Magic Guard to nullify hazard damage. I hesitate to call it the best, though, as compared to Umbreon Clef has far lower defensive stats, meaning it doesn't handle neutral hits as well, and without Unaware it fairs worse against sweepers too. Uninvested Moonblast doesn't provide quite as much offensive pressure as Foul Play, making Clef more passive if not hitting SE; that said, Clef definitely has potential.
- Jirachi may look appealing given it still has access to WishPivot thanks to U-turn and is a Steel type, but it's largely unviable as a Wish user because unlike Umbreon and Clefable, its weaknesses are very relevant. Every Uber has some way to hit it super-effectively, and all but two have good incentive to run those moves. And one of the two is Kyogre. Not being super-effective does not matter to Kyogre. This makes Lugia the only Uber Rachi can safely Wish in front of, which severely limits its opportunities versus the other two options.
Can we please ban moody? This ability is still as uncompetitive as ever: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8bdspubers-1466129156
Edit: Original link didn't save unfortunately. Basically in another battle glalie just substituted on a kyogre and won on the spot.
Edit: Original link didn't save unfortunately. Basically in another battle glalie just substituted on a kyogre and won on the spot.
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Yea at first i thought moody would be a haha funny moment in 1000 elo but overtime when i see people get - attack + speed - attack + special - attack + physdef on their octilerry and glalie it sorta just turned unfun.
def should be banned imo
def should be banned imo
Kyogre + Ludicolo Rain and Agility Empoleon!
pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/2e7e8092aa4d0ca5
explanation: this team is built with lead pokemon like dialga and kyogre, with dialga having stealth rock in its arsenal and kyogre having choice scarf and water spout to dent through the majority of the tier. ludicolo is a secondary rain setter with rain dance and 3 attack like hydro pump, ice beam, and giga drain. mewtwo offensively pressures most of the tier with nasty plot and 3 attacks with aura sphere dealing with dark-types like tyranitar and weavile and steel-types such as dialga. garchomp has lum berry to not fear status upon its setup with swords dance. it has its dual stab and stone edge, stone edge hits ho-oh for super effective damage and it also hits lugia. last but not least, empoelon with agility + 3 attacks set. empoleon has hydro pump and ice beam and the last slot is reserved for grass knot to hit opposing kyogre for a great damage output: 252+ SpA Empoleon Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 192-228 (56.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
in overall this team is build in a very offensive manner and is a great way to break through the majority of the tier with choice scarf kyogres water spout spam and when it is low on HP it can easily make use of origin pulse. ludicolo can also switch into the water spouts of opposing kyogre, as its typing allows it to offensive check kyogre. ludicolo can make use of swift swim to combat that! garchomp is a volt blocker and electric immune. this team should fare really well in the current uber meta and can offensively pressure offense teams really well. also you can change giga drain to grass knot on ludicolo if you want more damage output on opposing kyogre, tho giga drain allows it to tackle the life orb recoil in a way.
hope you will have fun using this team!
pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/2e7e8092aa4d0ca5
explanation: this team is built with lead pokemon like dialga and kyogre, with dialga having stealth rock in its arsenal and kyogre having choice scarf and water spout to dent through the majority of the tier. ludicolo is a secondary rain setter with rain dance and 3 attack like hydro pump, ice beam, and giga drain. mewtwo offensively pressures most of the tier with nasty plot and 3 attacks with aura sphere dealing with dark-types like tyranitar and weavile and steel-types such as dialga. garchomp has lum berry to not fear status upon its setup with swords dance. it has its dual stab and stone edge, stone edge hits ho-oh for super effective damage and it also hits lugia. last but not least, empoelon with agility + 3 attacks set. empoleon has hydro pump and ice beam and the last slot is reserved for grass knot to hit opposing kyogre for a great damage output: 252+ SpA Empoleon Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 192-228 (56.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
in overall this team is build in a very offensive manner and is a great way to break through the majority of the tier with choice scarf kyogres water spout spam and when it is low on HP it can easily make use of origin pulse. ludicolo can also switch into the water spouts of opposing kyogre, as its typing allows it to offensive check kyogre. ludicolo can make use of swift swim to combat that! garchomp is a volt blocker and electric immune. this team should fare really well in the current uber meta and can offensively pressure offense teams really well. also you can change giga drain to grass knot on ludicolo if you want more damage output on opposing kyogre, tho giga drain allows it to tackle the life orb recoil in a way.
hope you will have fun using this team!
Kyogre + Ludicolo Rain and Agility Empoleon!
pokepaste: https://pokepast.es/2e7e8092aa4d0ca5
explanation: this team is built with lead pokemon like dialga and kyogre, with dialga having stealth rock in its arsenal and kyogre having choice scarf and water spout to dent through the majority of the tier. ludicolo is a secondary rain setter with rain dance and 3 attack like hydro pump, ice beam, and giga drain. mewtwo offensively pressures most of the tier with nasty plot and 3 attacks with aura sphere dealing with dark-types like tyranitar and weavile and steel-types such as dialga. garchomp has lum berry to not fear status upon its setup with swords dance. it has its dual stab and stone edge, stone edge hits ho-oh for super effective damage and it also hits lugia. last but not least, empoelon with agility + 3 attacks set. empoleon has hydro pump and ice beam and the last slot is reserved for grass knot to hit opposing kyogre for a great damage output: 252+ SpA Empoleon Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 192-228 (56.1 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock.
in overall this team is build in a very offensive manner and is a great way to break through the majority of the tier with choice scarf kyogres water spout spam and when it is low on HP it can easily make use of origin pulse. ludicolo can also switch into the water spouts of opposing kyogre, as its typing allows it to offensive check kyogre. ludicolo can make use of swift swim to combat that! garchomp is a volt blocker and electric immune. this team should fare really well in the current uber meta and can offensively pressure offense teams really well. also you can change giga drain to grass knot on ludicolo if you want more damage output on opposing kyogre, tho giga drain allows it to tackle the life orb recoil in a way.
hope you will have fun using this team!
SERIOUSLY enjoyed this team! gonna drop a few critics, one of them is that i think stallbreaker mewtwo would be better here, since lugia has always been a problem (CM, Whirlwind, anything) and since garchomp is the main breaker, it has to be able to take an ice beam. another problem i feel is that Dragon moves are anoyying, scarf palkia and specs dialga sort of run through this team. other than that, i enjoy killing groudon with empoleon, and able to play more recklessly vs kyogre is always nice. gonna keep using it since it is super fun!
I considered yache berry on chomp first, but went then with lum, you can also tryna haban berry to weaken dragon-type attacks on it to have some reliancy with chomp. But I'm glad you enjoy this team, and I hope more people will do :)
Gonna drop yall a couple teams
Rayquaza + Wobbuffet Offense
Paste: https://pokepast.es/1b8ed6886bdb65ac
Explanation: I centered this team around one of the most dangerous breakers in this meta (imo), SD ray. The one glaring weakness ray has, however, is its inability to setup against basically every mon in the meta, which is where wobb comes into play. for example, against something like defensive dialga, wobb either forces a ko by clicking encore against an attacking move, and a possible 2 for 1 with custap destiny bond, or locks dialga into rocks/twave, allowing for setup with either ray or groudon. Similarly, against groudon, if it clicks rock move / twave / rocks and gets encored into it, free setup for don. if it clicks ground move, ray gets setup. Mence is just the (imo) best scarfer, because with moxie outrage/dclaw you honestly hit everything insanely hard. Some calcs:
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 328-387 (92.9 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyogre: 328-387 (96.1 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Lustrous Orb Palkia is one of the most versatile mons, and is basically the only offensive kyogre check. Clicking rend and hydro just gets kills, and even timid focus punch ohkos spdef blissey, which is the only ubers blissey set anyways. Mewtwo is the sub cm lugia counter, and is also the anti-smeargle lead.
Tspikes + Lugia
Paste: https://pokepast.es/0a34ed881d064dcc
Explanation: This is the most toxic team structure in the meta atm... CM Lugia in itself has basically three checks, CM ogre, taunt two, and wobb. With Tspikes, Lugia/Two pulls off crazy feats like fending off scarf ogre when the ogre switches in because water spout gets weakened every turn. Wobb traps dialga similar to the above team structure for scarf mence sweeps and palk being able to 2hko almost every mon in the tier. The Forre lead with sash prevents against crazy tech lol. CM two beats cm lugia and ogre, while also being the fastest mon in the tier and RKing threats like ray and chomp.
Rayquaza + Wobbuffet Offense
Paste: https://pokepast.es/1b8ed6886bdb65ac
Explanation: I centered this team around one of the most dangerous breakers in this meta (imo), SD ray. The one glaring weakness ray has, however, is its inability to setup against basically every mon in the meta, which is where wobb comes into play. for example, against something like defensive dialga, wobb either forces a ko by clicking encore against an attacking move, and a possible 2 for 1 with custap destiny bond, or locks dialga into rocks/twave, allowing for setup with either ray or groudon. Similarly, against groudon, if it clicks rock move / twave / rocks and gets encored into it, free setup for don. if it clicks ground move, ray gets setup. Mence is just the (imo) best scarfer, because with moxie outrage/dclaw you honestly hit everything insanely hard. Some calcs:
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 328-387 (92.9 - 109.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Salamence Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyogre: 328-387 (96.1 - 113.4%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Lustrous Orb Palkia is one of the most versatile mons, and is basically the only offensive kyogre check. Clicking rend and hydro just gets kills, and even timid focus punch ohkos spdef blissey, which is the only ubers blissey set anyways. Mewtwo is the sub cm lugia counter, and is also the anti-smeargle lead.
Tspikes + Lugia
Paste: https://pokepast.es/0a34ed881d064dcc
Explanation: This is the most toxic team structure in the meta atm... CM Lugia in itself has basically three checks, CM ogre, taunt two, and wobb. With Tspikes, Lugia/Two pulls off crazy feats like fending off scarf ogre when the ogre switches in because water spout gets weakened every turn. Wobb traps dialga similar to the above team structure for scarf mence sweeps and palk being able to 2hko almost every mon in the tier. The Forre lead with sash prevents against crazy tech lol. CM two beats cm lugia and ogre, while also being the fastest mon in the tier and RKing threats like ray and chomp.
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How is handling Kyogre without Soul Dew Lati@s? Watching BKC’s vids on Gen 4 Ubers it seems like the meta absolutely needs it Ogre checks and the Latis were what allowed for variety. Without them and no Arceus Water I imagine Dialga + Palkia on every team.
Dialga is on like every team minus heavy stall, it's strong but it isn't as hard to deal with like in DPP Ubers. No perma-weather and Rayquaza being better also helps. Mewtwo is harder to deal with for example than Ogre is.
most teams naturally check it, palkia and dialga is very good anyways so thats not really a negative, even hard stall have things like shedinja, blissey and giratina. offense has palkia, rayquaza and giratina-o. there are even niche mons that are good like abomasnow and quagsire that can do well vs ogre.
currently for me anyways ogre isnt the best pokemon but things like mewtwo and lugia is harder to deal with
Initial thoughts VR list. Haven't gotten to test much lately cause of irl business and ladder being kinda dead in my area, but this is what I compiled between earlier experience and theorycrafting; here's a key to tell you what experience I have with each of these mons:
Bold= Have used
Underline= Have faced
S Tiers
S
Dialga is a defensive staple with great offensive presence, one of the few things that can tank Kyogre Water Spout (at least when healthy), sets Rocks, tanky enough to potentially phase with Roar. Lack of recovery is only real downside.
Specs Water Spout go brr. Kyogre is the one mon you absolutely have to account for in builder, and it can even potentially brute force through checks like Dialga with paralysis.
Water Spout doesn't go brr with Palkia on the team. Strong STABs (especially with Lustrous Orb), great coverage like Fire Blast, Thunder and Focus Punch (yes, seriously), outspeeds most other Ubers- baseline for a good special attacker.
S-
With great Speed and power backed by Nasty Plot and a wide movepool, Nasty Plot Mewtwo is the premier sweeper/cleaner. Have it slightly below the Big Three since its bulk is only okay, it can't slot Recover without cutting into offensive potential, and unlike the Big Three it takes a turn to really get going with Plot. Still really scary mid-late game; Specs is also possible but much more exploitable.
A Tiers
A+
Not quite as domineering as the four S tiers, but Rayquaza is definitely a cut above the other A tiers. Dragon Dance or Swords Dance makes it a terrifying breaker, while Band set is a nightmare to switch into and lets it fully abuse Dragon STAB. Earthquake is great coverage, while Extreme Speed makes up for lacking coverage to prevent priority weakness. Rocks weakness does keep it from S rank, especially with its only decent bulk.
A
Kyogre may be the dominant weather setter, but Groudon isn't exactly bad, either. It can set Rocks, sweep with SD and possible Substitute to block status or Rock Polish to outpace other Ubers, spread status with TWave or Lava Plume (?), and back up strong STAB with Stone Edge or Dragon Claw. Resisting Rocks don't hurt either. Groudon's good power and extensive versatility make it something not to be slept on.
Losing Boots, Brave Bird, and Toxic, you may be tempted to write off Ho-Oh; that impression, however, betrays how annoying this thing can be in practice. Regenerator means Rocks aren't a death sentence, Sacred Fire is a pain to deal with if you lack a living Kyogre, and its SpD + recovery makes Ho-Oh arguably the tier's best special wall despite Stealth Rock. Ho-Oh pairs well with Groudon, covering each other's weaknesses bar Water, performing dual hazard duty and Drought powering up Sacred Fire.
A-
Dragon good=Fairy good, although most Fairies can't really cut it in an Ubers environment. Clefable finds itself a role in the tier thanks to its good blend of utility, packing Rocks, Aromatherapy, Encore and most importantly Wish. I've already talked about how game-changing Wish can be in a tier where many top tiers lack recovery, and between its key immunity and Unaware to stop sweepers it can be a key glue mon. Its neutral bulk isn't the best, though, and it can be a bit passive at times.
In spite of its competition, Garchomp is a rather solid offensive presence in the tier between its strong STAB combo and its rather crucial speed tier, making it a Dragon that can naturally outspeed Palkia; SD and STAB EQ mean it can also break Dialga more easily than its Dragon peers. Rocks and Flamethrower/Fire Blast even allow it to occasionally function as a decent setter in conjunction with Rough Skin.
With a rather limited pool of resistances to its fearsome STABs available, Giratina-O is not the easiest attacker to switch into, especially with boosted STAB priority and Wisp or TWave to cripple switch ins. It can also slot Defog into that fourth slot if you have status covered, packing enough bulk to tank most non SE attacks. Main downside is it usually isn't running max speed, so you'll probably end up having to stomach more hits than other offensive mons.
I admit, I don't really get the hype around Lugia; Multiscale is good, but hard to make consistent use of without Boots and risk of getting burned, on top of natural passivity and several common weaknesses. In fairness, it might just be because of how I build that I don't have much trouble with Lugia. With the right team, though, Lugia can still be a solid general wall thanks to its bulk, or potentially pull off a bulky CM set late-game (which it is limited to given 90 SpA). Generally works best on more defensive teams where it doesn't stack weaknesses as much.
Made a whole post about Umbreon, so to keep it brief: Wish good, enough physical bulk to curb scary physical attackers, Foul Play for actual offensive presence, Yawn to force switches, and makes a rare Ghost resist. Umbreon shouldn't be your only defensive option, but it is a solid mon atm.
Wobbuffet is as annoying as ever; delete certain threats to your team, or create set-up opportunities for teammates. You'll probably only get one or two mons before going down, but that can be enough to win games. Only downside is it can't make much progress against most defensive mons, so you mainly want Wob on offensive teams.
B Tiers
B+
Cloyster has the option of either HO hazard lead or late game sweeper with Shell Smash, taking advantage of how good Ice is offensively in the tier. Sweeper set is dangerous once it gets going, but Cloyster does struggle a bit with set-up opportunities between Rocks weakness and bad special bulk.
Double duty on hazards (with Toxic Spikes for rare poison), and it has Volt Switch in a tier without many pivots. Bad special bulk does limit Forretress a bit, with its physical bulk not being as impressive as you'd think without heavy investment.
Gastrodon is a pretty good Kyogre check, backed up with Scald and Clear Smog to prevent set-up. Its bulk is generally solid with only one weakness, although it can still be overwhelmed vs offense teams.
Probably the weakest cover legend, but great bulk and Pressure can make Giratina a good defensive mon in conjunction with options like Wisp, Defog and Roar. It is also very passive, however, and Rest can be exploited easily by various sweepers.
Ludicolo benefits from how naturally good Kyogre is, as well as packing SE moves for most of the tier. Swift Swim can be an effective killer late game, but what really gets Ludi this high is bulky Rain Dish set: with proper investment, this thing can be surprisingly hard to take out without a SE move, with Leech Seed exploiting lack of recovery many Ubers experience to chip them down and Scald to cripple physical attackers. If you don't have a living Rayquaza, this thing is a straight up pain in Rain.
Being a decently bulky Dragon resist automatically gives Skarmory some benefit (one of few mons that can somewhat handle BandQuaza), and dual hazard duty is great. Doesn't work out quite as well in practice, but still an okay physical wall.
B
Azelf is probably the best screen setter in the tier thanks to high Speed (you're not wasting Mewtwo on screens) and great options in Taunt, U-turn, Stealth Rock and Explosion, making it key on certain HO builds.
Blissey may have lost some of its best tools, but it does have a niche in being able to stave off the Sinnoh trio defensively (sans Focus Punch Palkia) while providing Rocks support. Best fourth move is probably TWave for now, helping to support offensive teammates and giving it some use on offensive builds.
While not getting relocated to Ubers, Latios does have one key distinction over its Dragon brethren in its solid speed tier, allowing it to revenge kill other Dragons with Specs or Soul Dew. Main drawback is it doesn't pack the punch of other Dragons, with even Garchomp being stronger due to SD and better second STAB.
Smeargle is a pretty good suicide lead thanks to Spore + few Grass types. Is mainly exclusive to HO teams, but it's a solid pick for that style.
B-
Definitely the weakest Uber, Blaziken is held back by its bad bulk and difficulty getting going, really only being good once Speed Boost kicks in and not being too strong without SD. It can potentially function with screens support, so partner Azelf or Abomasnow is pretty much mandatory.
Ditto is Ditto. Copying Ubers is strong, but it doesn't seem to be too in demand atm.
If you are going to use Swift Swim, the Kanto fossils are probably your best options; Kabutops packs decent power with SD and outpaces all Swimmers bar the weaker Qwilfish and rare Knock Off, while Omastar has Shell Smash. The two can't break through defensive mons too well, so they're best saved for late game.
The other possible new tenant, Tail Glow is not something to be taken lightly. It can't really threaten anything pre-Boost, however, plus the tier's dedicated Kyogre checks also serve to get in Manaphy's way (bar Gastrodon), and Phy's mono Water typing means it's not really an optimal partner for Ogre. Probably best on HO.
C Tiers
C+
Dugtrio isn't nearly as good a trapper as Wob, but high speed and STAB EQ mean it can eliminate specific targets; can even pick off weakened Mewtwo or Gira with Sucker Punch. Barring Electric moves, though, it basically dies to everything.
Losing Boots is definitely a pain for Shedinja, but Wonder Guard is just that good, completely shutting down Kyogre and non Shadow Ball Mewtwo among others. Even without SD, it can still spread Wisp, pick off weakened targets with Sneak and PP stall attacks like Ho-Oh's Sacred Fire with Protect. Reliance on hazard support is still a big issue, though.
Rain Dish do be annoying in combination with Tentacruel's high SpD, packing great utility between Scald, Knock Off and Rapid Spin. It does have to contend with its weaknesses and meh physical bulk, so it should have a physically durable partner.
Tyranitar is both strong and bulky under Sand, but it really can't measure up to its DPP days. No Pursuit, Sandstorm isn't permanent, Rocks aren't basically permanent with the Defog buff. Ttar is let down as a special wall by its lack of recovery, limited turns to be specially durable and difficulty switching into key special attackers Kyogre and Palkia, especially Focus Punch Palkia. What saves Ttar from being any lower is its potential on HO with Dragon Dance, sand bulk and potential screens letting it possibly get multiple boosts.
Weavile really got gimped by losing Triple Axel, Knock Off and Low Kick, but its Speed and Ice STAB can tear holes in the enemy under the right circumstances. Probably best with Band or Focus Sash, so make sure to pack hazard support if you use it outside of the lead slot.
C
Disrupting the weather duo and resisting their STABs definitely seems appealing, but Abomasnow doesn't have the bulk to be a good switch in for those two, with even max SpD barely avoiding 2HKO from SpecsOgre Water Spout at max HP. What it does have is Aurora Veil, allowing it to serve HO teams while threatening many Ubers with Ice STAB and Grass STAB for Kyogre; you do need to predict carefully, though, since you can't switch into them directly.
F*cking Moody.
F*cking Moody.
Losing Encore sucks, but Shuckle can still function as a lead between dual hazards, rare access to Toxic and Knock Off or Final Gambit depending on team style (balanced vs more offensive).
C-
Jirachi largely can't cut it in Ubers; its weaknesses are too relevant, it can be dead weight vs all Ubers but Lugia, its largely too weak to make progress, burn being best status hurts it even more, and it lost key tools in Iron Head and Trick. Its one real advantage is Healing Wish, as Jirachi is largely railroaded into a pure support mon. Meaning its best asset is taking itself out.
Fairy is good, but only Clef is really notably good. Togekiss gets a small nod because of Defog support and actually having recovery.
Water immunity means Toxicroak isn't totally useless, even if it isn't too strong and can only set up vs Choice Kyogre. +2 LO Sucker can actually OHKO Mewtwo, though.
And that's everything. A bunch of subranks will probably shift once I can actually test them, but I do think most of the non-Ubers do possess at least a small niche in the tier. Feel free to bring up any you think I missed.
Bold= Have used
Underline= Have faced
S Tiers
S
Dialga is a defensive staple with great offensive presence, one of the few things that can tank Kyogre Water Spout (at least when healthy), sets Rocks, tanky enough to potentially phase with Roar. Lack of recovery is only real downside.
Specs Water Spout go brr. Kyogre is the one mon you absolutely have to account for in builder, and it can even potentially brute force through checks like Dialga with paralysis.
Water Spout doesn't go brr with Palkia on the team. Strong STABs (especially with Lustrous Orb), great coverage like Fire Blast, Thunder and Focus Punch (yes, seriously), outspeeds most other Ubers- baseline for a good special attacker.
S-
With great Speed and power backed by Nasty Plot and a wide movepool, Nasty Plot Mewtwo is the premier sweeper/cleaner. Have it slightly below the Big Three since its bulk is only okay, it can't slot Recover without cutting into offensive potential, and unlike the Big Three it takes a turn to really get going with Plot. Still really scary mid-late game; Specs is also possible but much more exploitable.
A Tiers
A+
Not quite as domineering as the four S tiers, but Rayquaza is definitely a cut above the other A tiers. Dragon Dance or Swords Dance makes it a terrifying breaker, while Band set is a nightmare to switch into and lets it fully abuse Dragon STAB. Earthquake is great coverage, while Extreme Speed makes up for lacking coverage to prevent priority weakness. Rocks weakness does keep it from S rank, especially with its only decent bulk.
A
Kyogre may be the dominant weather setter, but Groudon isn't exactly bad, either. It can set Rocks, sweep with SD and possible Substitute to block status or Rock Polish to outpace other Ubers, spread status with TWave or Lava Plume (?), and back up strong STAB with Stone Edge or Dragon Claw. Resisting Rocks don't hurt either. Groudon's good power and extensive versatility make it something not to be slept on.
Losing Boots, Brave Bird, and Toxic, you may be tempted to write off Ho-Oh; that impression, however, betrays how annoying this thing can be in practice. Regenerator means Rocks aren't a death sentence, Sacred Fire is a pain to deal with if you lack a living Kyogre, and its SpD + recovery makes Ho-Oh arguably the tier's best special wall despite Stealth Rock. Ho-Oh pairs well with Groudon, covering each other's weaknesses bar Water, performing dual hazard duty and Drought powering up Sacred Fire.
A-
Dragon good=Fairy good, although most Fairies can't really cut it in an Ubers environment. Clefable finds itself a role in the tier thanks to its good blend of utility, packing Rocks, Aromatherapy, Encore and most importantly Wish. I've already talked about how game-changing Wish can be in a tier where many top tiers lack recovery, and between its key immunity and Unaware to stop sweepers it can be a key glue mon. Its neutral bulk isn't the best, though, and it can be a bit passive at times.
In spite of its competition, Garchomp is a rather solid offensive presence in the tier between its strong STAB combo and its rather crucial speed tier, making it a Dragon that can naturally outspeed Palkia; SD and STAB EQ mean it can also break Dialga more easily than its Dragon peers. Rocks and Flamethrower/Fire Blast even allow it to occasionally function as a decent setter in conjunction with Rough Skin.
With a rather limited pool of resistances to its fearsome STABs available, Giratina-O is not the easiest attacker to switch into, especially with boosted STAB priority and Wisp or TWave to cripple switch ins. It can also slot Defog into that fourth slot if you have status covered, packing enough bulk to tank most non SE attacks. Main downside is it usually isn't running max speed, so you'll probably end up having to stomach more hits than other offensive mons.
I admit, I don't really get the hype around Lugia; Multiscale is good, but hard to make consistent use of without Boots and risk of getting burned, on top of natural passivity and several common weaknesses. In fairness, it might just be because of how I build that I don't have much trouble with Lugia. With the right team, though, Lugia can still be a solid general wall thanks to its bulk, or potentially pull off a bulky CM set late-game (which it is limited to given 90 SpA). Generally works best on more defensive teams where it doesn't stack weaknesses as much.
Made a whole post about Umbreon, so to keep it brief: Wish good, enough physical bulk to curb scary physical attackers, Foul Play for actual offensive presence, Yawn to force switches, and makes a rare Ghost resist. Umbreon shouldn't be your only defensive option, but it is a solid mon atm.
Wobbuffet is as annoying as ever; delete certain threats to your team, or create set-up opportunities for teammates. You'll probably only get one or two mons before going down, but that can be enough to win games. Only downside is it can't make much progress against most defensive mons, so you mainly want Wob on offensive teams.
B Tiers
B+
Cloyster has the option of either HO hazard lead or late game sweeper with Shell Smash, taking advantage of how good Ice is offensively in the tier. Sweeper set is dangerous once it gets going, but Cloyster does struggle a bit with set-up opportunities between Rocks weakness and bad special bulk.
Double duty on hazards (with Toxic Spikes for rare poison), and it has Volt Switch in a tier without many pivots. Bad special bulk does limit Forretress a bit, with its physical bulk not being as impressive as you'd think without heavy investment.
Gastrodon is a pretty good Kyogre check, backed up with Scald and Clear Smog to prevent set-up. Its bulk is generally solid with only one weakness, although it can still be overwhelmed vs offense teams.
Probably the weakest cover legend, but great bulk and Pressure can make Giratina a good defensive mon in conjunction with options like Wisp, Defog and Roar. It is also very passive, however, and Rest can be exploited easily by various sweepers.
Ludicolo benefits from how naturally good Kyogre is, as well as packing SE moves for most of the tier. Swift Swim can be an effective killer late game, but what really gets Ludi this high is bulky Rain Dish set: with proper investment, this thing can be surprisingly hard to take out without a SE move, with Leech Seed exploiting lack of recovery many Ubers experience to chip them down and Scald to cripple physical attackers. If you don't have a living Rayquaza, this thing is a straight up pain in Rain.
Being a decently bulky Dragon resist automatically gives Skarmory some benefit (one of few mons that can somewhat handle BandQuaza), and dual hazard duty is great. Doesn't work out quite as well in practice, but still an okay physical wall.
B
Azelf is probably the best screen setter in the tier thanks to high Speed (you're not wasting Mewtwo on screens) and great options in Taunt, U-turn, Stealth Rock and Explosion, making it key on certain HO builds.
Blissey may have lost some of its best tools, but it does have a niche in being able to stave off the Sinnoh trio defensively (sans Focus Punch Palkia) while providing Rocks support. Best fourth move is probably TWave for now, helping to support offensive teammates and giving it some use on offensive builds.
While not getting relocated to Ubers, Latios does have one key distinction over its Dragon brethren in its solid speed tier, allowing it to revenge kill other Dragons with Specs or Soul Dew. Main drawback is it doesn't pack the punch of other Dragons, with even Garchomp being stronger due to SD and better second STAB.
Smeargle is a pretty good suicide lead thanks to Spore + few Grass types. Is mainly exclusive to HO teams, but it's a solid pick for that style.
B-
Definitely the weakest Uber, Blaziken is held back by its bad bulk and difficulty getting going, really only being good once Speed Boost kicks in and not being too strong without SD. It can potentially function with screens support, so partner Azelf or Abomasnow is pretty much mandatory.
Ditto is Ditto. Copying Ubers is strong, but it doesn't seem to be too in demand atm.
If you are going to use Swift Swim, the Kanto fossils are probably your best options; Kabutops packs decent power with SD and outpaces all Swimmers bar the weaker Qwilfish and rare Knock Off, while Omastar has Shell Smash. The two can't break through defensive mons too well, so they're best saved for late game.
The other possible new tenant, Tail Glow is not something to be taken lightly. It can't really threaten anything pre-Boost, however, plus the tier's dedicated Kyogre checks also serve to get in Manaphy's way (bar Gastrodon), and Phy's mono Water typing means it's not really an optimal partner for Ogre. Probably best on HO.
C Tiers
C+
Dugtrio isn't nearly as good a trapper as Wob, but high speed and STAB EQ mean it can eliminate specific targets; can even pick off weakened Mewtwo or Gira with Sucker Punch. Barring Electric moves, though, it basically dies to everything.
Losing Boots is definitely a pain for Shedinja, but Wonder Guard is just that good, completely shutting down Kyogre and non Shadow Ball Mewtwo among others. Even without SD, it can still spread Wisp, pick off weakened targets with Sneak and PP stall attacks like Ho-Oh's Sacred Fire with Protect. Reliance on hazard support is still a big issue, though.
Rain Dish do be annoying in combination with Tentacruel's high SpD, packing great utility between Scald, Knock Off and Rapid Spin. It does have to contend with its weaknesses and meh physical bulk, so it should have a physically durable partner.
Tyranitar is both strong and bulky under Sand, but it really can't measure up to its DPP days. No Pursuit, Sandstorm isn't permanent, Rocks aren't basically permanent with the Defog buff. Ttar is let down as a special wall by its lack of recovery, limited turns to be specially durable and difficulty switching into key special attackers Kyogre and Palkia, especially Focus Punch Palkia. What saves Ttar from being any lower is its potential on HO with Dragon Dance, sand bulk and potential screens letting it possibly get multiple boosts.
Weavile really got gimped by losing Triple Axel, Knock Off and Low Kick, but its Speed and Ice STAB can tear holes in the enemy under the right circumstances. Probably best with Band or Focus Sash, so make sure to pack hazard support if you use it outside of the lead slot.
C
Disrupting the weather duo and resisting their STABs definitely seems appealing, but Abomasnow doesn't have the bulk to be a good switch in for those two, with even max SpD barely avoiding 2HKO from SpecsOgre Water Spout at max HP. What it does have is Aurora Veil, allowing it to serve HO teams while threatening many Ubers with Ice STAB and Grass STAB for Kyogre; you do need to predict carefully, though, since you can't switch into them directly.
F*cking Moody.
F*cking Moody.
Losing Encore sucks, but Shuckle can still function as a lead between dual hazards, rare access to Toxic and Knock Off or Final Gambit depending on team style (balanced vs more offensive).
C-
Jirachi largely can't cut it in Ubers; its weaknesses are too relevant, it can be dead weight vs all Ubers but Lugia, its largely too weak to make progress, burn being best status hurts it even more, and it lost key tools in Iron Head and Trick. Its one real advantage is Healing Wish, as Jirachi is largely railroaded into a pure support mon. Meaning its best asset is taking itself out.
Fairy is good, but only Clef is really notably good. Togekiss gets a small nod because of Defog support and actually having recovery.
Water immunity means Toxicroak isn't totally useless, even if it isn't too strong and can only set up vs Choice Kyogre. +2 LO Sucker can actually OHKO Mewtwo, though.
And that's everything. A bunch of subranks will probably shift once I can actually test them, but I do think most of the non-Ubers do possess at least a small niche in the tier. Feel free to bring up any you think I missed.
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I think Lucario is worth ranking as it has a niche on webs teams and forms a vicious core with Rayquaza. I'd probably rank it in the B or C tiers though because of its frailtyInitial thoughts VR list. Haven't gotten to test much lately cause of irl business and ladder being kinda dead in my area, but this is what I compiled between earlier experience and theorycrafting; here's a key to tell you what experience I have with each of these mons:
Bold= Have used
Underline= Have faced
S Tiers
S
Dialga is a defensive staple with great offensive presence, one of the few things that can tank Kyogre Water Spout (at least when healthy), sets Rocks, tanky enough to potentially phase with Roar. Lack of recovery is only real downside.
Specs Water Spout go brr. Kyogre is the one mon you absolutely have to account for in builder, and it can even potentially brute force through checks like Dialga with paralysis.
Water Spout doesn't go brr with Palkia on the team. Strong STABs (especially with Lustrous Orb), great coverage like Fire Blast, Thunder and Focus Punch (yes, seriously), outspeeds most other Ubers- baseline for a good special attacker.
S-
With great Speed and power backed by Nasty Plot and a wide movepool, Nasty Plot Mewtwo is the premier sweeper/cleaner. Have it slightly below the Big Three since its bulk is only okay, it can't slot Recover without cutting into offensive potential, and unlike the Big Three it takes a turn to really get going with Plot. Still really scary mid-late game; Specs is also possible but much more exploitable.
A Tiers
A+
Not quite as domineering as the four S tiers, but Rayquaza is definitely a cut above the other A tiers. Dragon Dance or Swords Dance makes it a terrifying breaker, while Band set is a nightmare to switch into and lets it fully abuse Dragon STAB. Earthquake is great coverage, while Extreme Speed makes up for lacking coverage to prevent priority weakness. Rocks weakness does keep it from S rank, especially with its only decent bulk.
A
Kyogre may be the dominant weather setter, but Groudon isn't exactly bad, either. It can set Rocks, sweep with SD and possible Substitute to block status or Rock Polish to outpace other Ubers, spread status with TWave or Lava Plume (?), and back up strong STAB with Stone Edge or Dragon Claw. Resisting Rocks don't hurt either. Groudon's good power and extensive versatility make it something not to be slept on.
Losing Boots, Brave Bird, and Toxic, you may be tempted to write off Ho-Oh; that impression, however, betrays how annoying this thing can be in practice. Regenerator means Rocks aren't a death sentence, Sacred Fire is a pain to deal with if you lack a living Kyogre, and its SpD + recovery makes Ho-Oh arguably the tier's best special wall despite Stealth Rock. Ho-Oh pairs well with Groudon, covering each other's weaknesses bar Water, performing dual hazard duty and Drought powering up Sacred Fire.
A-
Dragon good=Fairy good, although most Fairies can't really cut it in an Ubers environment. Clefable finds itself a role in the tier thanks to its good blend of utility, packing Rocks, Aromatherapy, Encore and most importantly Wish. I've already talked about how game-changing Wish can be in a tier where many top tiers lack recovery, and between its key immunity and Unaware to stop sweepers it can be a key glue mon. Its neutral bulk isn't the best, though, and it can be a bit passive at times.
In spite of its competition, Garchomp is a rather solid offensive presence in the tier between its strong STAB combo and its rather crucial speed tier, making it a Dragon that can naturally outspeed Palkia; SD and STAB EQ mean it can also break Dialga more easily than its Dragon peers. Rocks and Flamethrower/Fire Blast even allow it to occasionally function as a decent setter in conjunction with Rough Skin.
With a rather limited pool of resistances to its fearsome STABs available, Giratina-O is not the easiest attacker to switch into, especially with boosted STAB priority and Wisp or TWave to cripple switch ins. It can also slot Defog into that fourth slot if you have status covered, packing enough bulk to tank most non SE attacks. Main downside is it usually isn't running max speed, so you'll probably end up having to stomach more hits than other offensive mons.
I admit, I don't really get the hype around Lugia; Multiscale is good, but hard to make consistent use of without Boots and risk of getting burned, on top of natural passivity and several common weaknesses. In fairness, it might just be because of how I build that I don't have much trouble with Lugia. With the right team, though, Lugia can still be a solid general wall thanks to its bulk, or potentially pull off a bulky CM set late-game (which it is limited to given 90 SpA). Generally works best on more defensive teams where it doesn't stack weaknesses as much.
Made a whole post about Umbreon, so to keep it brief: Wish good, enough physical bulk to curb scary physical attackers, Foul Play for actual offensive presence, Yawn to force switches, and makes a rare Ghost resist. Umbreon shouldn't be your only defensive option, but it is a solid mon atm.
Wobbuffet is as annoying as ever; delete certain threats to your team, or create set-up opportunities for teammates. You'll probably only get one or two mons before going down, but that can be enough to win games. Only downside is it can't make much progress against most defensive mons, so you mainly want Wob on offensive teams.
B Tiers
B+
Cloyster has the option of either HO hazard lead or late game sweeper with Shell Smash, taking advantage of how good Ice is offensively in the tier. Sweeper set is dangerous once it gets going, but Cloyster does struggle a bit with set-up opportunities between Rocks weakness and bad special bulk.
Double duty on hazards (with Toxic Spikes for rare poison), and it has Volt Switch in a tier without many pivots. Bad special bulk does limit Forretress a bit, with its physical bulk not being as impressive as you'd think without heavy investment.
Gastrodon is a pretty good Kyogre check, backed up with Scald and Clear Smog to prevent set-up. Its bulk is generally solid with only one weakness, although it can still be overwhelmed vs offense teams.
Probably the weakest cover legend, but great bulk and Pressure can make Giratina a good defensive mon in conjunction with options like Wisp, Defog and Roar. It is also very passive, however, and Rest can be exploited easily by various sweepers.
Ludicolo benefits from how naturally good Kyogre is, as well as packing SE moves for most of the tier. Swift Swim can be an effective killer late game, but what really gets Ludi this high is bulky Rain Dish set: with proper investment, this thing can be surprisingly hard to take out without a SE move, with Leech Seed exploiting lack of recovery many Ubers experience to chip them down and Scald to cripple physical attackers. If you don't have a living Rayquaza, this thing is a straight up pain in Rain.
Being a decently bulky Dragon resist automatically gives Skarmory some benefit (one of few mons that can somewhat handle BandQuaza), and dual hazard duty is great. Doesn't work out quite as well in practice, but still an okay physical wall.
B
Azelf is probably the best screen setter in the tier thanks to high Speed (you're not wasting Mewtwo on screens) and great options in Taunt, U-turn, Stealth Rock and Explosion, making it key on certain HO builds.
Blissey may have lost some of its best tools, but it does have a niche in being able to stave off the Sinnoh trio defensively (sans Focus Punch Palkia) while providing Rocks support. Best fourth move is probably TWave for now, helping to support offensive teammates and giving it some use on offensive builds.
While not getting relocated to Ubers, Latios does have one key distinction over its Dragon brethren in its solid speed tier, allowing it to revenge kill other Dragons with Specs or Soul Dew. Main drawback is it doesn't pack the punch of other Dragons, with even Garchomp being stronger due to SD and better second STAB.
Smeargle is a pretty good suicide lead thanks to Spore + few Grass types. Is mainly exclusive to HO teams, but it's a solid pick for that style.
B-
Definitely the weakest Uber, Blaziken is held back by its bad bulk and difficulty getting going, really only being good once Speed Boost kicks in and not being too strong without SD. It can potentially function with screens support, so partner Azelf or Abomasnow is pretty much mandatory.
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Ditto is Ditto. Copying Ubers is strong, but it doesn't seem to be too in demand atm.
If you are going to use Swift Swim, the Kanto fossils are probably your best options; Kabutops packs decent power with SD and outpaces all Swimmers bar the weaker Qwilfish and rare Knock Off, while Omastar has Shell Smash. The two can't break through defensive mons too well, so they're best saved for late game.
The other possible new tenant, Tail Glow is not something to be taken lightly. It can't really threaten anything pre-Boost, however, plus the tier's dedicated Kyogre checks also serve to get in Manaphy's way (bar Gastrodon), and Phy's mono Water typing means it's not really an optimal partner for Ogre. Probably best on HO.
C Tiers
C+
Dugtrio isn't nearly as good a trapper as Wob, but high speed and STAB EQ mean it can eliminate specific targets; can even pick off weakened Mewtwo or Gira with Sucker Punch. Barring Electric moves, though, it basically dies to everything.
Losing Boots is definitely a pain for Shedinja, but Wonder Guard is just that good, completely shutting down Kyogre and non Shadow Ball Mewtwo among others. Even without SD, it can still spread Wisp, pick off weakened targets with Sneak and PP stall attacks like Ho-Oh's Sacred Fire with Protect. Reliance on hazard support is still a big issue, though.
Rain Dish do be annoying in combination with Tentacruel's high SpD, packing great utility between Scald, Knock Off and Rapid Spin. It does have to contend with its weaknesses and meh physical bulk, so it should have a physically durable partner.
Tyranitar is both strong and bulky under Sand, but it really can't measure up to its DPP days. No Pursuit, Sandstorm isn't permanent, Rocks aren't basically permanent with the Defog buff. Ttar is let down as a special wall by its lack of recovery, limited turns to be specially durable and difficulty switching into key special attackers Kyogre and Palkia, especially Focus Punch Palkia. What saves Ttar from being any lower is its potential on HO with Dragon Dance, sand bulk and potential screens letting it possibly get multiple boosts.
Weavile really got gimped by losing Triple Axel, Knock Off and Low Kick, but its Speed and Ice STAB can tear holes in the enemy under the right circumstances. Probably best with Band or Focus Sash, so make sure to pack hazard support if you use it outside of the lead slot.
C
Disrupting the weather duo and resisting their STABs definitely seems appealing, but Abomasnow doesn't have the bulk to be a good switch in for those two, with even max SpD barely avoiding 2HKO from SpecsOgre Water Spout at max HP. What it does have is Aurora Veil, allowing it to serve HO teams while threatening many Ubers with Ice STAB and Grass STAB for Kyogre; you do need to predict carefully, though, since you can't switch into them directly.
F*cking Moody.
F*cking Moody.
Losing Encore sucks, but Shuckle can still function as a lead between dual hazards, rare access to Toxic and Knock Off or Final Gambit depending on team style (balanced vs more offensive).
C-
Jirachi largely can't cut it in Ubers; its weaknesses are too relevant, it can be dead weight vs all Ubers but Lugia, its largely too weak to make progress, burn being best status hurts it even more, and it lost key tools in Iron Head and Trick. Its one real advantage is Healing Wish, as Jirachi is largely railroaded into a pure support mon. Meaning its best asset is taking itself out.
Fairy is good, but only Clef is really notably good. Togekiss gets a small nod because of Defog support and actually having recovery.
Water immunity means Toxicroak isn't totally useless, even if it isn't too strong and can only set up vs Choice Kyogre. +2 LO Sucker can actually OHKO Mewtwo, though.
And that's everything. A bunch of subranks will probably shift once I can actually test them, but I do think most of the non-Ubers do possess at least a small niche in the tier. Feel free to bring up any you think I missed.
Gonna drop a few disagrees
S- -> S
Ive played this tier a lot and i think people are seriously underestimating mewtwo, Calm mind bulky mewtwo is one of the scariest mons in the meta, it has NO BAD match-ups other than dark types (which are non existent in Ubers other than umbreon and weavile which are easily taken care of), Taunt/Calm Mind/Psystrike/Recover with bulk (i do 200 hp 56 defense) and rest in speed can set up on the many walls and special attackers of ubers, mons like Scarf palkia, Any dialga really all forms of giratina cant beat this mons, and things like Ray, Specs Ogre, 
SD Luke cant outspeed or kill with priority either, imo this is the best pokemon in ubers by far, even more than the Sinnoh Legends, Kyogre or Lugia.
The only thing u can do is status it, or set up tspikes vs it to hurt it in the long run, and its really, really hard to beat.
B+ -> A-
this thing is the best hazard stacker and have decent to good matchup with some of the top dogs of Ubers, tspikes is DEADLY here, and is actually one of the 2 only good spinners in ubers, yea special bulk kinda sucks but its managable, since tspikes or spikes is just that good.
B -> A- or B+
HO is great in ubers, thats it. just thinking its underappreciated.
C -> C+
this thing is underrated, ive used a semi-stall team with abomasnow and the hail chip + leech seed is really deadly, and since this also walls giratina-o, some dialga and palkia surprisingly well with leech seed protect, and since the only other grass type thats usable in ubers is
B -> B- or C+ maybe since some B- mons are better than latios
This thing is pretty bad in ubers, yes its fast, yes 130 special does hurt, but the nerf of soul dew REALLY hurts this mon, it can realistically only spam Draco Meteor, Thunder and Grass Knot. it doesnt get in on much except for a good read on stealth rock from dialga, or groudon. and it doesnt even do that much damage like
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Dialga: 231-273 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Groudon: 308-364 (76.2 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Kyogre: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and without the +1 spdef from Soul Dew you dont exactly... take much
so yea, speed is good, but the rest is.. not much
Ill add one
UR -> C+ or C
Magic bouncers are pretty good at ubers, they enable Shedinja + GSC Birds stall which is very hard to fight due to the bulk with 0 hazards chip. not only that this also helps beat the very good Smeargle HO Teams that are rampant is BDSP Ubers. they also dont have to be in stall, as ive tried balance with it and Specs Ogre and Giratina and they appreciate the no hazards, (i also have lugia there too).
UR -> B
this thing didnt change at all from dpp ubers, its still the amazing SD Life orb E-speed sweeper it was back in that meta that rivals SD Ray due to its amazing defensive typing with rocks resistance, dragon resistance and tspikes immunity which are crucial. its no slouch in damage and with Latios being a non factor can now run Jolly to be able to tie maxspeed base 90s like Dialga, Giratina, Kyogre and others. you might think im joking but its really good, with just a rocks + spikes chip its able to ohko mewtwo, palkia, scarf ogre with extreme speed, and it sets up on a lot. it sets up on scarf palkia, scarf dialga, -2 dialga from draco (which they spam A LOT of), forretress and more. and with crunch it can one shot giratina-o after rocks, and it can reliably beat lugia too since most lugia only run mono ice beam. so dont sleep
S-
With great Speed and power backed by Nasty Plot and a wide movepool, Nasty Plot Mewtwo is the premier sweeper/cleaner. Have it slightly below the Big Three since its bulk is only okay, it can't slot Recover without cutting into offensive potential, and unlike the Big Three it takes a turn to really get going with Plot. Still really scary mid-late game; Specs is also possible but much more exploitable.
S- -> SIve played this tier a lot and i think people are seriously underestimating mewtwo, Calm mind bulky mewtwo is one of the scariest mons in the meta, it has NO BAD match-ups other than dark types (which are non existent in Ubers other than
umbreon and weavile which are easily taken care of), Taunt/Calm Mind/Psystrike/Recover with bulk (i do 200 hp 56 defense) and rest in speed can set up on the many walls and special attackers of ubers, mons like Scarf palkia, Any dialga really all forms of giratina cant beat this mons, and things like Ray, Specs Ogre, SD Luke cant outspeed or kill with priority either, imo this is the best pokemon in ubers by far, even more than the Sinnoh Legends, Kyogre or Lugia.The only thing u can do is status it, or set up tspikes vs it to hurt it in the long run, and its really, really hard to beat.
B+
Double duty on hazards (with Toxic Spikes for rare poison), and it has Volt Switch in a tier without many pivots. Bad special bulk does limit Forretress a bit, with its physical bulk not being as impressive as you'd think without heavy investment.
B+ -> A-this thing is the best hazard stacker and have decent to good matchup with some of the top dogs of Ubers, tspikes is DEADLY here, and is actually one of the 2 only good spinners in ubers, yea special bulk kinda sucks but its managable, since tspikes or spikes is just that good.
B
Smeargle is a pretty good suicide lead thanks to Spore + few Grass types. Is mainly exclusive to HO teams, but it's a solid pick for that style.
B -> A- or B+HO is great in ubers, thats it. just thinking its underappreciated.
C
Disrupting the weather duo and resisting their STABs definitely seems appealing, but Abomasnow doesn't have the bulk to be a good switch in for those two, with even max SpD barely avoiding 2HKO from SpecsOgre Water Spout at max HP. What it does have is Aurora Veil, allowing it to serve HO teams while threatening many Ubers with Ice STAB and Grass STAB for Kyogre; you do need to predict carefully, though, since you can't switch into them directly.
C -> C+this thing is underrated, ive used a semi-stall team with abomasnow and the hail chip + leech seed is really deadly, and since this also walls giratina-o, some dialga and palkia surprisingly well with leech seed protect, and since the only other grass type thats usable in ubers is
B
While not getting relocated to Ubers, Latios does have one key distinction over its Dragon brethren in its solid speed tier, allowing it to revenge kill other Dragons with Specs or Soul Dew. Main drawback is it doesn't pack the punch of other Dragons, with even Garchomp being stronger due to SD and better second STAB.
B -> B- or C+ maybe since some B- mons are better than latiosThis thing is pretty bad in ubers, yes its fast, yes 130 special does hurt, but the nerf of soul dew REALLY hurts this mon, it can realistically only spam Draco Meteor, Thunder and Grass Knot. it doesnt get in on much except for a good read on stealth rock from dialga, or groudon. and it doesnt even do that much damage like
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Dialga: 231-273 (57.1 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 228+ SpD Groudon: 308-364 (76.2 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Kyogre: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 45.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
and without the +1 spdef from Soul Dew you dont exactly... take much
so yea, speed is good, but the rest is.. not much
Ill add one
UR -> C+ or CMagic bouncers are pretty good at ubers, they enable
Shedinja + GSC Birds stall which is very hard to fight due to the bulk with 0 hazards chip. not only that this also helps beat the very good Smeargle HO Teams that are rampant is BDSP Ubers. they also dont have to be in stall, as ive tried balance with it and Specs Ogre and Giratina and they appreciate the no hazards, (i also have lugia there too). UR -> Bthis thing didnt change at all from dpp ubers, its still the amazing SD Life orb E-speed sweeper it was back in that meta that rivals
SD Ray due to its amazing defensive typing with rocks resistance, dragon resistance and tspikes immunity which are crucial. its no slouch in damage and with Latios being a non factor can now run Jolly to be able to tie maxspeed base 90s like Dialga, Giratina, Kyogre and others. you might think im joking but its really good, with just a rocks + spikes chip its able to ohko mewtwo, palkia, scarf ogre with extreme speed, and it sets up on a lot. it sets up on scarf palkia, scarf dialga, -2 dialga from draco (which they spam A LOT of), forretress and more. and with crunch it can one shot giratina-o after rocks, and it can reliably beat lugia too since most lugia only run mono ice beam. so dont sleep
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Manaphy in that list is only really usable on Webs with TG/3 attacks. The CM Rain set sucks and on Webs you would pair with Kyogre anyways for the few instances Hydration would be useful. This format doesnt really like play DPP Ubers with the exception of different roles like Forretress being the Tspike setter compared to Tenta for example. Mewtwo is best mon and Dialga and Lugia come 2nd and 3rd, for Dialgas splashability and Lugias ability to not really get KO’d. I think there’s a lot of things in that list not as good or overlooked. Mamoswine for example is usable as is Roserade. Ho-Oh imo isnt a good mon at all granted it can have some decent matchups against fatter teams once in awhile so A is really high. I might put together my own personal list too but it’s so top heavy by the time you get past the A mons it feels a bit redundant not really too relevant stuff.
I think two is probably on top right now as best mon, taunt cm setups against everything. You don't die to any attacks and it has sweeping potential while also being unbreakable and faster then every non scarf mon.
Also probably a S mon, you die to literally nothing and with bulk investment you also die to literally nothing while being able to setup cms or be the #1 defogger in the tier
As for other mons, I feel like latios is a great scarfer as it doesn't have to lock into outrage to revenge kill dragons like ray, and is also unaffected by webs. likewise, mence is also a great scarfer because you have amazing sweeping potential with moxie outrage and there being basically no resists.
I had never played an Ubers metagame since DPP and have not played Pokemon at all for years, and after having played the BKC tournament I first just revamped some DPP teams to try this new metagame. Due to movesets limitations for many Pokemon, I had to change his moveset, and he is doing very well to be honest, especially with the lack of Dragon Resist. I think I have never played a team without a dragon resist in DPP Ubers and I still am reluctant to do it.
Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 244 HP / 76 Def / 188 SpD
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
Very useful for offense teams who usually have trouble to switch on Lugia, but also the essential dragon/ice resists to deal with choice Dialga/Palkia/Chomp/Kyogre. He also checks Mewtwo, best mon in this metagame since they almost never run Fire Blast. For now I am using the classic SpDef DPP spread but it can be optimized.
Ability: Technician
EVs: 244 HP / 76 Def / 188 SpD
Careful Nature
- Swords Dance
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
Very useful for offense teams who usually have trouble to switch on Lugia, but also the essential dragon/ice resists to deal with choice Dialga/Palkia/Chomp/Kyogre. He also checks Mewtwo, best mon in this metagame since they almost never run Fire Blast. For now I am using the classic SpDef DPP spread but it can be optimized.
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I've seen a fair amount of Life Orb NP Mewtwo, but if you have a team that can reliable get Rocks up and keep them up, then Wise Glasses get the job done well enough.
+2 252 SpA Wise Glasses Mewtwo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lugia: 336-396 (80.7 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Wise Glasses Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 408-480 (126.7 - 149%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Wise Glasses Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre: 313-370 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Wise Glasses Mewtwo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 392-462 (99.4 - 117.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Wise Glasses Mewtwo Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor: 271-319 (79.2 - 93.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Wise Glasses Mewtwo Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Dialga: 482-568 (119.6 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The lack of self recoil makes Mewtwo harder to revenge kill with Choice Scarf users. If you are Focus Blast aversive, user Life Orb. Life Orb Aura Sphere is still weaker but I wouldn't touch Wise Glasses Aura Sphere with a forty meter pole.
+2 252 SpA Wise Glasses Mewtwo Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Lugia: 336-396 (80.7 - 95.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Wise Glasses Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Palkia: 408-480 (126.7 - 149%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Wise Glasses Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre: 313-370 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Wise Glasses Mewtwo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Umbreon: 392-462 (99.4 - 117.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Wise Glasses Mewtwo Focus Blast vs. 244 HP / 252+ SpD Scizor: 271-319 (79.2 - 93.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 SpA Wise Glasses Mewtwo Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 216+ SpD Dialga: 482-568 (119.6 - 140.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The lack of self recoil makes Mewtwo harder to revenge kill with Choice Scarf users. If you are Focus Blast aversive, user Life Orb. Life Orb Aura Sphere is still weaker but I wouldn't touch Wise Glasses Aura Sphere with a forty meter pole.