Alright, I've made it through my personal 200-streak benchmark. I used teams #1, #4, #5, switching with every run.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon.
Black & White Battle Subway Records (now with gen. 4 records!)
- Thread starter Peterko
- Start date
Alright, I've made it through my personal 200-streak benchmark. I used teams #1, #4, #5, switching with every run.
This is the end of the line for me.
Metagross vs Bisharp 1 v 1. Metagross used Earthquake. Bisharp survived with a sliver of health. Bisharp used Metal Burst. Metagross fainted.
Still, this is the farthest I've gone without cheating. I do feel accomplished.
I suppose I have my own benchmark to pass now: I'm back to 104 wins, and have used all six of your teams for two rounds each. Very happy to see that the roulette style of Subway-riding has netted me my second Subway Lansat!
Teams #1 and #6 were a struggle at times (I'm sure the TerraCott team is going to eventually cost me the streak); the other four teams have more than held up their end of the bargain, especially #3 and #5.
Somewhat related note: Regice can go to hell or an incinerator or the desert, whichever gets it out of my life the fatest.
Haha, defensive Pokemon can be a pain sometimes.
What is a Lansat?
Last edited:
...you didn't talk to that one person on the Subway platform after hitting 105, did you? Gifts you one of these:
EDIT: As I suspected would be the case, the TerraCott team let me down on my next set of battles, leaving me at 110 wins. The team as a whole has trouble against Steels, and eventually a team of those plus Claydol4 (whom I foolishly put in Custap activation range) ended me in explosive fashion.
Still, a lot of fun going with the roulette style of teams and will definitely be trying that again in the future.
Last edited:
I don't find Steel to be that big of a problem. +4 Close Combat or Double Kick destroys all of them. Scizor is scary but it rarely uses Bullet Punch on the first turn.
I'm more scared of double potential Trick Room leads.
I'm more scared of double potential Trick Room leads.
Most people in the facility community know me for my Tree and Maison Singles streaks. However, several months back I rediscovered my SoulSilver cart and decided to get all Gold prints. At the time, I had three silver prints. I decided start with Factory since I knew nothing about gen 4 RNG.
Months later, I finally got my gold print. Posting a completed streak of 54 wins in HGSS Battle Factory Singles (Level 50).
Months later, I finally got my gold print. Posting a completed streak of 54 wins in HGSS Battle Factory Singles (Level 50).
Before I talk about the streak itself, I'd rather talk about the route that this run took. When I started running Factory, I thought that trading was just a trade, and that talk of it giving you better mons was just rumors/speculation. I also decided to run level 50 because of the shorter HP bars. Then turskain showed up and linked me to a post that showed that, yes, trades really do give you better sets. While I still did level 50, I did debate with Turskain about what was the best route to take when trading. He suggested a 21/28 trades route (Skip trading in the third round so that you have a better chance of beating level 50 Thorton3, which can easily end you if you aren't going for team comp). I disagreed and thought that trading in round 3 to give you better odds at round 5/6 was definitely worth the risk of losing a run to Thorton3, since it only takes around an hour to get back to battle 21 anyway, and I had been having a lot of trouble in round 5. Turskain said that both routes were viable, but I stand by my decision that my route is better when going beyond round 4. Additionally, if, near the end of round 6, I was at 34 trades and something that could slightly compromise team composition appeared as a trade option, I would trade for it. This route does not go out of its way to get 35 trades before round 7, but if an opportunity presents itself I will gladly take it, so this factory route is a 35/42 trades route.
Round 5 summary: Draft Umbreon3/Donphan2/Exeggutor3/Porygon-Z3/Hypno2/Armaldo3. Picked Armaldo/Donphan/Porygon in hopes of snagging a better lead immediately. Traded Armaldo for Espeon1 after battle 5-2. Traded Donphan2 for Gyarados1 after battle 5-3. Traded Gyarados1 for Flygon1 after battle 5-6. Ended round with 32 trades.
Round 6 summary: Draft Meganium3/Yanmega4/Sceptile4/Alakazam4/Luxray4/Infernape3. Draft looks good at a glance but seems sketchy. Eventually picked Yanmega(it had speed boost)/Infernape/Alakazam, as just one good swap could make the team very solid. That swap appeared immediately, in the form of Arcanine3. Traded Infernape for Arcanine3 after battle 6-1. Traded Arcanine3 for Tentacruel3 after battle 6-4 to bring the run up to 35 trades.
Round 7 summary: Draft Torterra1/Vaporeon3/Salamence4(31 IV)/Marowak3/Forretress4(24 IV)/Exeggutor1. Very solid draft, as 31 IV Salamence4 and Vaporeon3 form a good core. Torterra picked as a third mon, to be replaced when required. Salamence4/Vaporeon3/Torterra1. Traded Torterra1 for Garchomp4 after battle 7-1. Traded Garchomp4 for Tauros4 after battle 7-2. Thorton brought Floatzel4/Manectric4/Regice134. Swapped from mence to Vaporeon on Floatzel, Yawned, ended up finishing it off with full health. Vaporeon Yawned as manectric4 2HKOed. Salamence OHKO'd manectric with Earthquake and did 60% to Regice with Outrage before being finished off by Ice Beam. Tauros clicked Return and won. Ended round with 38 trades.
Round 8 summary: Draft Suicune2/Probopass3/Kangaskhan2/Bastiodon3/Gyarados3/Vileplume1. Terrible draft with very few options. Picked Vileplume1/Gyarados3/Kangaskhan2, as Vileplume's Sleep Powder would let it be a very solid supporter. Traded Kangaskhan for Alakazam1 after battle 8-1 (the Alakazam picked Future Sight against Vileplume, probably because it saw it as a Psychic-type attack). No further trades, as the team was surprisingly solid, until facing a DARK specialist at 8-6. His first poke I can't remember, except for the fact that Gyarados switched in and KO'd it with Stone Edge. His second poke was an Absol4 that crit Gyarados and Vileplume with Night Slash. Alakazam had no chance of winning from there. Round ended with 54 wins and 40 trades.
Round 5 summary: Draft Umbreon3/Donphan2/Exeggutor3/Porygon-Z3/Hypno2/Armaldo3. Picked Armaldo/Donphan/Porygon in hopes of snagging a better lead immediately. Traded Armaldo for Espeon1 after battle 5-2. Traded Donphan2 for Gyarados1 after battle 5-3. Traded Gyarados1 for Flygon1 after battle 5-6. Ended round with 32 trades.
Round 6 summary: Draft Meganium3/Yanmega4/Sceptile4/Alakazam4/Luxray4/Infernape3. Draft looks good at a glance but seems sketchy. Eventually picked Yanmega(it had speed boost)/Infernape/Alakazam, as just one good swap could make the team very solid. That swap appeared immediately, in the form of Arcanine3. Traded Infernape for Arcanine3 after battle 6-1. Traded Arcanine3 for Tentacruel3 after battle 6-4 to bring the run up to 35 trades.
Round 7 summary: Draft Torterra1/Vaporeon3/Salamence4(31 IV)/Marowak3/Forretress4(24 IV)/Exeggutor1. Very solid draft, as 31 IV Salamence4 and Vaporeon3 form a good core. Torterra picked as a third mon, to be replaced when required. Salamence4/Vaporeon3/Torterra1. Traded Torterra1 for Garchomp4 after battle 7-1. Traded Garchomp4 for Tauros4 after battle 7-2. Thorton brought Floatzel4/Manectric4/Regice134. Swapped from mence to Vaporeon on Floatzel, Yawned, ended up finishing it off with full health. Vaporeon Yawned as manectric4 2HKOed. Salamence OHKO'd manectric with Earthquake and did 60% to Regice with Outrage before being finished off by Ice Beam. Tauros clicked Return and won. Ended round with 38 trades.
Round 8 summary: Draft Suicune2/Probopass3/Kangaskhan2/Bastiodon3/Gyarados3/Vileplume1. Terrible draft with very few options. Picked Vileplume1/Gyarados3/Kangaskhan2, as Vileplume's Sleep Powder would let it be a very solid supporter. Traded Kangaskhan for Alakazam1 after battle 8-1 (the Alakazam picked Future Sight against Vileplume, probably because it saw it as a Psychic-type attack). No further trades, as the team was surprisingly solid, until facing a DARK specialist at 8-6. His first poke I can't remember, except for the fact that Gyarados switched in and KO'd it with Stone Edge. His second poke was an Absol4 that crit Gyarados and Vileplume with Night Slash. Alakazam had no chance of winning from there. Round ended with 54 wins and 40 trades.
Last edited:
the mods can still update the leaderboard so it's not too bad, but yeah discussion has fallen pretty low unfortunately
So this is more a proof-of-concept type of thing since it's on an emulator, but I've got a long streak going and it's been easy enough so far that I'd consider it a big upset to not get over 1001 straight with the team. That's not to say I haven't lost at all - there were a handful of stupid misclick-related losses in the early going (including not bringing Glalie into a set of 7, which taught me to deposit everything else in the PC beforehand) as I got used to the controls being faster. The team is essentially the same as what I used in the Battle Maison with the main difference being that Pokemon are autoleveled to 50, so I couldn't just use any Sableye for the lead.
I actually bred this team in the 5th gen (yes, including min HP/defenses Sableye) and did a run with it a few years ago on my physical copy of White, and I lost somewhere in the 650-660 range due to sheer negligence; basically there were certain trainers I'd come to realize had rosters where basically every Pokemon was the equivalent of set 4 in the Maison, and I got tripped up by a last mon Darmanitan because I figured 'eh I'll just hit it with one more Frost Breath and even if it hits and crits me through boosted evasion next turn Durant can finish it off.' Well, it turned out that since there's no Assault Vest in gen 5, that Darmanitan instead had a Sitrus Berry, which allowed it to recover just enough HP to survive a hit from Durant after it did in fact crit Glalie through boosted evasion (I'm sure it was a minimum or close to minimum damage roll as well that allowed it to survive the last hit). The other funny thing about that streak was that at the time I erroneously believed the top streak was just a 1000* type of deal where the person had just just completed the set of 7 that included #1000 and retired to keep the top streak intact; had I known the actual #1 streak was in play (rather than just winning more than someone who got bored of winning) I probably would've focused a little more, but I was mostly just using that run to blow off steam after getting ridiculously haxed out en route to the #1 Maison streak. Sadly that cartridge can't be read by either my DS or 3DS now.
Here's a one hour session from this evening. I'm not positive this is the optimal Durant strategy for Gen 5 (there could be some Red Card backup like Cresselia that would do a solid Mimikyu impression), but I've got enough prior experience with the team I'm using and am confident it's at least better than what people were using back way then.
I think there's lots more room to further optimize gen 5 strategies given how much more we as a player base know now. Another glaring example would be that the Eviolite Chansey set that kicks ass in the Battle Tree is available to use here, where there are 2 fewer generations of power creep via Megas/Z moves and the AI is even dumber and more exploitable. Gliscor (especially because Bulldoze is most likely even more optimal than Earthquake) would be in the same boat.
I actually bred this team in the 5th gen (yes, including min HP/defenses Sableye) and did a run with it a few years ago on my physical copy of White, and I lost somewhere in the 650-660 range due to sheer negligence; basically there were certain trainers I'd come to realize had rosters where basically every Pokemon was the equivalent of set 4 in the Maison, and I got tripped up by a last mon Darmanitan because I figured 'eh I'll just hit it with one more Frost Breath and even if it hits and crits me through boosted evasion next turn Durant can finish it off.' Well, it turned out that since there's no Assault Vest in gen 5, that Darmanitan instead had a Sitrus Berry, which allowed it to recover just enough HP to survive a hit from Durant after it did in fact crit Glalie through boosted evasion (I'm sure it was a minimum or close to minimum damage roll as well that allowed it to survive the last hit). The other funny thing about that streak was that at the time I erroneously believed the top streak was just a 1000* type of deal where the person had just just completed the set of 7 that included #1000 and retired to keep the top streak intact; had I known the actual #1 streak was in play (rather than just winning more than someone who got bored of winning) I probably would've focused a little more, but I was mostly just using that run to blow off steam after getting ridiculously haxed out en route to the #1 Maison streak. Sadly that cartridge can't be read by either my DS or 3DS now.
Sableye @ Focus Sash
Nature: Hasty
IVs: 0/0/0/x/0/31
EVs: 252 Spe
Level 50 stats: 110/80/72/85/70/112
- Trick
- Taunt
- Gravity
- Flash
Notes: just wanted lowest possible defenses for maximum attack baiting, to the point that I didn't even care about dumping a few Sp. Def EVs to give Download users the Attack boost (Porygons aren't stopping a full set-up from happening, and since there's less resistance to a set-up Glalie it doesn't really how much they do to Durant). As much as I'd like to fit in Rain Dance to stop Sand Stream, the other moves all have
Durant @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 HP/12 Def/ 244 Spe
Level 50 stats: 165/129/134/61/68/176
- Entrainment
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- Iron Head
Notes: Since Durant is coming in 2nd after something's already been debuffed, there isn't as much need for utility moves outside of Entrainment. No Magic Bounce to face means X-Scissor isn't really necessary, so Superpower is just a strong and accurate neutral attack in case it needs to finish something off. Gen 5 has much more frequent Ice trainers, so it's not out of the ordinary to face an absurdly Ice-resistant lineup like Lapras/Thick Fat Dewgong/Thick Fat Walrein; Glalie has closed out a few battles via Struggle (hence the 31 Attack IV - in this gen there's no reason Glalie should ever get confused) but it's nice to have that last hit in the back pocket if necessary.
Glalie @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 172 HP/108 Def/54 SpA/4 SpD/172 Spe
Level 50 stats: 177/90/114/107/101/134
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Protect
- Frost Breath
Notes: HP is a Leftovers number, Defense gives Glalie's Sub at +5 guaranteed survival against both Donphan-4 Stone Edge (can be Sturdy and QC Fissure or Stone Edge crit the next turn) and Technician Scizor-4 Bullet Punch. Those are both very rare/specific calcs, but after HP and Speed there aren't too many more places to put EVs, and since most of the opponents you face are physical attackers and something with 80 base Special Attack and Leftovers isn't going to be OHKOing too much even when boosted, Defense seemed like the best one to prioritize. Speed outpaces base 130s at +1 and everything at +2. With sound moves not penetrating Subs, no hidden Abilities (aka Unaware Quagsire or Infiltrator in general), and the AI attempting to status you when you're behind a Sub (a personal favorite is Metagross spamming Trick instead of Meteor Mash), a set-up Glalie is even more unstoppable. One minor drawback is that Sand Stream is infinite, so any Tyranitar or Hippowdon puts a limit on how many Substitutes you can throw up.
Nature: Hasty
IVs: 0/0/0/x/0/31
EVs: 252 Spe
Level 50 stats: 110/80/72/85/70/112
- Trick
- Taunt
- Gravity
- Flash
Notes: just wanted lowest possible defenses for maximum attack baiting, to the point that I didn't even care about dumping a few Sp. Def EVs to give Download users the Attack boost (Porygons aren't stopping a full set-up from happening, and since there's less resistance to a set-up Glalie it doesn't really how much they do to Durant). As much as I'd like to fit in Rain Dance to stop Sand Stream, the other moves all have
Durant @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 252 HP/12 Def/ 244 Spe
Level 50 stats: 165/129/134/61/68/176
- Entrainment
- Rock Slide
- Superpower
- Iron Head
Notes: Since Durant is coming in 2nd after something's already been debuffed, there isn't as much need for utility moves outside of Entrainment. No Magic Bounce to face means X-Scissor isn't really necessary, so Superpower is just a strong and accurate neutral attack in case it needs to finish something off. Gen 5 has much more frequent Ice trainers, so it's not out of the ordinary to face an absurdly Ice-resistant lineup like Lapras/Thick Fat Dewgong/Thick Fat Walrein; Glalie has closed out a few battles via Struggle (hence the 31 Attack IV - in this gen there's no reason Glalie should ever get confused) but it's nice to have that last hit in the back pocket if necessary.
Glalie @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
IVs: 31/31/31/31/31/31
EVs: 172 HP/108 Def/54 SpA/4 SpD/172 Spe
Level 50 stats: 177/90/114/107/101/134
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Protect
- Frost Breath
Notes: HP is a Leftovers number, Defense gives Glalie's Sub at +5 guaranteed survival against both Donphan-4 Stone Edge (can be Sturdy and QC Fissure or Stone Edge crit the next turn) and Technician Scizor-4 Bullet Punch. Those are both very rare/specific calcs, but after HP and Speed there aren't too many more places to put EVs, and since most of the opponents you face are physical attackers and something with 80 base Special Attack and Leftovers isn't going to be OHKOing too much even when boosted, Defense seemed like the best one to prioritize. Speed outpaces base 130s at +1 and everything at +2. With sound moves not penetrating Subs, no hidden Abilities (aka Unaware Quagsire or Infiltrator in general), and the AI attempting to status you when you're behind a Sub (a personal favorite is Metagross spamming Trick instead of Meteor Mash), a set-up Glalie is even more unstoppable. One minor drawback is that Sand Stream is infinite, so any Tyranitar or Hippowdon puts a limit on how many Substitutes you can throw up.
Here's a one hour session from this evening. I'm not positive this is the optimal Durant strategy for Gen 5 (there could be some Red Card backup like Cresselia that would do a solid Mimikyu impression), but I've got enough prior experience with the team I'm using and am confident it's at least better than what people were using back way then.
I think there's lots more room to further optimize gen 5 strategies given how much more we as a player base know now. Another glaring example would be that the Eviolite Chansey set that kicks ass in the Battle Tree is available to use here, where there are 2 fewer generations of power creep via Megas/Z moves and the AI is even dumber and more exploitable. Gliscor (especially because Bulldoze is most likely even more optimal than Earthquake) would be in the same boat.
Last edited:
Here's the stream of the battles that got me to 1008. Maybe the most noteworthy part was at 1:41:55 where after the set that got me to 1001, I found a janitor NPC on the subway platform who says "You like battles, too!" thus marking the 5th generation as the only one in the series that does anything to acknowledge an ultralong streak beyond simply displaying the records.
Close-ish calls throughout the streak:
- Faced 7 lead Yanmegas, which necessitate a turn 1 switch to Durant, and none of them crit it. Even with a turn 1 crit, Glalie is much more likely than not to set up on Yanmega (outspeeds 2 sets and the other 2 are very likely to Detect turn 1, plus in a blessed calc even a max damage roll Bug Buzz would leave Glalie with enough HP to put up a Sub) after Sableye has spammed Flash until fainting, but it's nice it didn't even have to come to that.
- There was a QC Emboar that broke Glalie's Sub on 3 consecutive opportunities before missing. If one of those 2 hits on a turn Glalie didn't have a Sub had also been a QC activation and a critical hit, that would've been the end.
- There were 2 times a 2nd/3rd Pokemon QC Sturdy Donphan broke Glalie's Sub its first turn out (sadly the other handful of times when it didn't were the result of Stone Edge missing rather than Glalie's Sub tanking it) but the QC didn't activate a 2nd straight time.
- I let a Drapion lead KO Sableye without Taunting it and it turned out to be the set that had Toxic Spikes, which luckily it did not use the turn Durant Entrained it. I didn't look up any trainer rosters on this run, but that was the battle that made me assume that any lead could be any of the 4 sets when I had previously been lulled into assuming that the trainers that weren't weather/TR/legendaries were only bringing sets 3/4.
- The first time I encountered Double Team Zapdos it surprised me by DTing right from the start rather than trying to KO Sableye (which it obviously does vs. a level 1 Sableye), so by the time it KOed Sableye it had +2 Evasion (that was nullified by Gravity) but still had Brightpowder. Durant didn't miss with Entrainment, which was nice even though Glalie could have most likely set up on its own (outspeeds at +0, Zapdos had reduced accuracy, not that many more Heat Wave PP, and likes to give free turns by spamming DT), but that made me adjust to use Gravity turn 1 against Zapdos leads and go from there.
- I had 2 battles where I misclicked and used Protect on a loafing turn against a faster Pokemon that had already KOed Sableye and Durant (once against a Scarf Chomp that crit Durant and once against Heat Wave Togekiss), which put me in a position where I'd have lost the streak if the subsequent Protect failed and Glalie got hit and crit, but the odds of even hitting in the first place were quite low between lowered Accuracy and boosted Evasion.
- I was worried about Explosion users with STAB Stone Edge (Gigalith, Regirock) as with the 2x crits I couldn't just switch Durant in against them turn 1, but they always ended up staying on the field for long enough to allow Glalie to get all boosted.
- Against Ice Workers there were a few times I got unlucky with multiple Sp. Attack drops late in the battle and ran low on Frost Breath PP; most of the time this is no problem because nothing they have is really capable of damaging a boosted Glalie and Struggle can finish them off, but when the last mon has Rest Durant is needed to finish them off, which it did a couple times against the Curse/Rest/Ice Ball/Earthquake Walrein after Glalie had used its last Taunt. If Durant had gotten frozen or KOed its first time out in those cases, that would've been bad, but A) that's super unlikely to happen against those rosters, especially when the lead's accuracy is reduced and B) it's kind of a chicken/egg thing where a KOed/crippled Durant makes me more vigilant about PP usage and checking Glalie's boosts early on - usually it's fine to just fire off a test Frost Breath to check where the Sp. Attack is, but against Ice Trainers (also Veterans mostly due to Suicune) you want to make sure it's close to maxed out and Accuracy is positive first.
Special thanks to turskain because having the Subway sets pre-loaded into the damage calculator definitely saved me a lot of time and made it much less of a slog than it would've been otherwise!
Close-ish calls throughout the streak:
- Faced 7 lead Yanmegas, which necessitate a turn 1 switch to Durant, and none of them crit it. Even with a turn 1 crit, Glalie is much more likely than not to set up on Yanmega (outspeeds 2 sets and the other 2 are very likely to Detect turn 1, plus in a blessed calc even a max damage roll Bug Buzz would leave Glalie with enough HP to put up a Sub) after Sableye has spammed Flash until fainting, but it's nice it didn't even have to come to that.
- There was a QC Emboar that broke Glalie's Sub on 3 consecutive opportunities before missing. If one of those 2 hits on a turn Glalie didn't have a Sub had also been a QC activation and a critical hit, that would've been the end.
- There were 2 times a 2nd/3rd Pokemon QC Sturdy Donphan broke Glalie's Sub its first turn out (sadly the other handful of times when it didn't were the result of Stone Edge missing rather than Glalie's Sub tanking it) but the QC didn't activate a 2nd straight time.
- I let a Drapion lead KO Sableye without Taunting it and it turned out to be the set that had Toxic Spikes, which luckily it did not use the turn Durant Entrained it. I didn't look up any trainer rosters on this run, but that was the battle that made me assume that any lead could be any of the 4 sets when I had previously been lulled into assuming that the trainers that weren't weather/TR/legendaries were only bringing sets 3/4.
- The first time I encountered Double Team Zapdos it surprised me by DTing right from the start rather than trying to KO Sableye (which it obviously does vs. a level 1 Sableye), so by the time it KOed Sableye it had +2 Evasion (that was nullified by Gravity) but still had Brightpowder. Durant didn't miss with Entrainment, which was nice even though Glalie could have most likely set up on its own (outspeeds at +0, Zapdos had reduced accuracy, not that many more Heat Wave PP, and likes to give free turns by spamming DT), but that made me adjust to use Gravity turn 1 against Zapdos leads and go from there.
- I had 2 battles where I misclicked and used Protect on a loafing turn against a faster Pokemon that had already KOed Sableye and Durant (once against a Scarf Chomp that crit Durant and once against Heat Wave Togekiss), which put me in a position where I'd have lost the streak if the subsequent Protect failed and Glalie got hit and crit, but the odds of even hitting in the first place were quite low between lowered Accuracy and boosted Evasion.
- I was worried about Explosion users with STAB Stone Edge (Gigalith, Regirock) as with the 2x crits I couldn't just switch Durant in against them turn 1, but they always ended up staying on the field for long enough to allow Glalie to get all boosted.
- Against Ice Workers there were a few times I got unlucky with multiple Sp. Attack drops late in the battle and ran low on Frost Breath PP; most of the time this is no problem because nothing they have is really capable of damaging a boosted Glalie and Struggle can finish them off, but when the last mon has Rest Durant is needed to finish them off, which it did a couple times against the Curse/Rest/Ice Ball/Earthquake Walrein after Glalie had used its last Taunt. If Durant had gotten frozen or KOed its first time out in those cases, that would've been bad, but A) that's super unlikely to happen against those rosters, especially when the lead's accuracy is reduced and B) it's kind of a chicken/egg thing where a KOed/crippled Durant makes me more vigilant about PP usage and checking Glalie's boosts early on - usually it's fine to just fire off a test Frost Breath to check where the Sp. Attack is, but against Ice Trainers (also Veterans mostly due to Suicune) you want to make sure it's close to maxed out and Accuracy is positive first.
Special thanks to turskain because having the Subway sets pre-loaded into the damage calculator definitely saved me a lot of time and made it much less of a slog than it would've been otherwise!
Last edited:
Hello and tHank you , i won super solo subway with streak minimum subway boss only with scarfty dance draco / suicune sub rest calm mind and latias trickscarf / this tread was extremly useful for my success . Thanks again.
This has been stalling for a long time but here is an edited, reordered version of TRE's trainer listing and summaries. It groups similar trainers together like the Tree look-up cheatsheet. Nothing big but it's something I wanted for my personal use.
Original links to roster data are dead but the full rosters are still available at Bulbapedia and in SadisticMystic's Subway Filter: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Battle_Subway_Trainers
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tuXagfBQ3JGZpG9f7Q2BAA9DaSMl9Gzv-C9N2X_6KIA/edit?usp=sharing
Type Specialists
Battle Girl Aces - Set4 Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
Battle Girl Flush - Set4 Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
Battle Girl Queenie - Set4 Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
Black Belt Enpi - Set4 Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
Black Belt Harimao - Set4 Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
Black Belt Unsu - Set4 Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
Psychic (F) Longo - Set4 Psychic and Ghost Types
Psychic (F) Sambala - Set4 Psychic and Ghost Types
Psychic (F) Zaya - Set4 Psychic and Ghost Types
Psychic (M) Boldbat - Set4 Psychic and Ghost Types
Psychic (M) Khaan - Set4 Psychic and Ghost Types
Psychic (M) Solongo - Set4 Psychic and Ghost Types
Fisherman Fird - Set34 Water Types and a stray Vanilluxe
Fisherman Humfrey - Set12 Water Types and a stray Vanilluxe
----
Weather Users
Baker Judy - Sunny Day - Set1234 Chlorophyll mons + sets of other Pokémon with Sunny Day, and Solar Beam.
Baker Vespera - Sunny Day - Set1234 Chlorophyll mons + sets of other Pokémon with Sunny Day, and Solar Beam
Parasol Lady Hilary - Rain - Set1234 Swift Swim species + sets including Surf, Rain Dance or Thunder + Tentacruel3
Parasol Lady Vanna - Rain - Set1234 Swift Swim species + sets including Surf, Rain Dance or Thunder + Tentacruel3
Worker (Ice) Roman - Set1234 Snow Cloak & Ice Body mons + Ice-type sets with Hail or Blizzard
Worker (Ice) Valéry - Set1234 Snow Cloak & Ice Body mons + Ice-type sets with Hail or Blizzard
Worker Hayes - Set1234 Hippowdon, Tyranitar, Excadrill & sets with Sandstorm or Sand Tomb + Aerodactyl3, Bastiodon34, Terrakion4, Landorus1, Regirock1 - superset of Quinn
Worker Quinn - Set1234 Hippowdon + Tyranitar & sets with Sandstorm or Sand Tomb - small roster, subset of Hayes that does not include the shopping list
----
GroupA/GroupB Trainers
Set4:
Scientist (F) Charis - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Scientist (F) Lotte - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Scientist (F) Therese - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Scientist (M) Shan - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Scientist (M) Spacey - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Scientist (M) Stubs - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Clerk (Executive) Faust - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Clerk (Executive) Ulfgang - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Ace Trainer (F) Gwen - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon with 17 less Pokemon
Ace Trainer (F) Mooi - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon with 43 less Pokemon
Ace Trainer (M) Dylan - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon with 43 less Pokemon
Ace Trainer (M) Farley - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon with 17 less Pokemon
Doctor Dwight - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Doctor Levant - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Nurse Panarat - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Nurse Saisune - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Pokemon Breeder (F) Janet - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Pokemon Breeder (F) Shawna - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Pokemon Breeder (M) Eoin - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Pokemon Breeder (M) Manford - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Veteran (F) Ginger - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Veteran (F) Hecate - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Veteran (M) Donta - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon with 17 less Pokemon
Veteran (M) Ponta - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon with 17 less Pokemon
Set3:
Clerk (F) Anette - Set3 of Group (A) Pokemon
Clerk (F) Anora - Set3 of Group (A) Pokemon
Clerk (M) Bank - Set3 of Group (A) Pokemon
Clerk (M) Elwin - Set3 of Group (A) Pokemon
Cyclist (F) Birgit - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Cyclist (F) Margit - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Cyclist (M) Dante - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Cyclist (M) Marion - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Pokemon Ranger (F) Ivy - Set3 of Group (A) Pokemon
Pokemon Ranger (F) Paula - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Pokemon Ranger (F) Terran - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Pokemon Ranger (M) Mouse - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Pokemon Ranger (M) Skyblue - Set3 of Group (A) Pokemon
Pokemon Ranger (M) Smokey - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Set2:
Waiter Gonyan - Set2 of Group (A) Pokemon
Waiter Hasan - Set2 of Group (B) Pokemon
Waitress Amber - Set2 of Group (B) Pokemon
Waitress Roe - Set2 of Group (A) Pokemon
Set1:
Backpacker (F) Simone - Set1 of Group (B) Pokemon
Backpacker (F) Wald - Set1 of Group (A) Pokemon
Backpacker (M) Cedric - Set1 of Group (B) Pokemon
Backpacker (M) Felton - Set1 of Group (A) Pokemon
----
Set1234 trainers
Pilot Artemas - Set1234 of Flying Types including Thundurus, Tornadus & the Kanto birds (Landorus excluded)
Pilot Chand - Set1234 of Flying Types including Thundurus, Tornadus & the Kanto birds (Landorus excluded)
Depot Agent Isadore - Set1234 + Lanturn3, with minor exceptions; Electric and Steel Types
Depot Agent Ramses - Set1234 + Lanturn3, with minor exceptions; Electric and Steel Types
Biker Petro - Set1234 - Pseudo-legendaries + Gyarados, Starmie, Blissey, Infernape, Bronzong, Spiritomb, Weavile, Togekiss, Yanmega, Archeops, Escavalier, Haxorus
Biker Philipo - Set1234 - Pseudo-legendaries + Gyarados, Starmie, Blissey, Infernape, Bronzong, Spiritomb, Weavile, Togekiss, Yanmega, Archeops, Escavalier, Haxorus
Hiker Jorge - Set1234 Ground Types
Hiker Kemuel - Set1234 Rock Types
Gentleman Camus - Set1234 Legendaries
Gentleman Kavan - Set1234 Legendaries
Maid Anguile - Set1234 Starters
Maid Fesan - Set1234 Starters
Nursery Aide Chachi - Set1234 Eeveelutions
Nursery Aide Evelyn - Set1234 Eeveelutions
Artist Hacikan - Set1234 Steel-types + Starmie, Drifblim, Porygon2, Porygon-Z, Spiritomb, Claydol
Artist Rikkyu - Set1234 Steel-types + Starmie, Drifblim, Porygon2, Porygon-Z, Spiritomb, Claydol
Socialite Aparna - Set1234 Legendaries
Socialite Saty - Set1234 Legendaries
Veteran (F) Jeune - Set1234 of Legendaries
Veteran (F) Risha - Set1234 of Legendaries
Veteran (M) Colombo - Set1234 of Legendaries
Veteran (M) Leron - Set1234 of Legendaries
----
Irregular Trainers
Ace Trainer (F) Palm - One set per species - Arcanine4, Krookodile4, Regice4, some Set4s, Salamence2, Blissey3, Lickilicky3, Mandibuzz1, Spiritomb3, Granbull3, Ferrothorn2
Ace Trainer (M) Reigel - One set per species - Arcanine4, Krookodile4, Regice4, some Set4s, Salamence2, Blissey3, Lickilicky3, Mandibuzz1, Spiritomb3, Granbull3, Ferrothorn2
Harlequin Aramis - Trick Room Team. Every set with TR for TR species except for Slowking1 (Slowking4 NOT on the roster) & Iron Ball holders + Steelix4, Hippowdon4, Rampardos4, Hariyama3, Rhyperior4, Gigalith4
Harlequin Athos - Trick Room Team. Every set with TR for TR species except for Slowking1 (Slowking4 NOT on the roster) & Iron Ball holders + Steelix4, Hippowdon4, Rampardos4, Hariyama3, Rhyperior4, Gigalith4
Janitor Eric - Double Battle Specialist
Janitor Oscar - Double Battle Specialist
Policeman Bobemon - Annoyer Movesets
Policeman Bobnori - Annoyer Movesets
Roughneck Ganymed - OHKO Users
Roughneck Proteus - OHKO Users
Original links to roster data are dead but the full rosters are still available at Bulbapedia and in SadisticMystic's Subway Filter: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/List_of_Battle_Subway_Trainers
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tuXagfBQ3JGZpG9f7Q2BAA9DaSMl9Gzv-C9N2X_6KIA/edit?usp=sharing
Type Specialists
Battle Girl Aces - Set4 Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
Battle Girl Flush - Set4 Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
Battle Girl Queenie - Set4 Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
Black Belt Enpi - Set4 Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
Black Belt Harimao - Set4 Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
Black Belt Unsu - Set4 Fire, Fighting, and Steel Types
Psychic (F) Longo - Set4 Psychic and Ghost Types
Psychic (F) Sambala - Set4 Psychic and Ghost Types
Psychic (F) Zaya - Set4 Psychic and Ghost Types
Psychic (M) Boldbat - Set4 Psychic and Ghost Types
Psychic (M) Khaan - Set4 Psychic and Ghost Types
Psychic (M) Solongo - Set4 Psychic and Ghost Types
Fisherman Fird - Set34 Water Types and a stray Vanilluxe
Fisherman Humfrey - Set12 Water Types and a stray Vanilluxe
----
Weather Users
Baker Judy - Sunny Day - Set1234 Chlorophyll mons + sets of other Pokémon with Sunny Day, and Solar Beam.
Baker Vespera - Sunny Day - Set1234 Chlorophyll mons + sets of other Pokémon with Sunny Day, and Solar Beam
Parasol Lady Hilary - Rain - Set1234 Swift Swim species + sets including Surf, Rain Dance or Thunder + Tentacruel3
Parasol Lady Vanna - Rain - Set1234 Swift Swim species + sets including Surf, Rain Dance or Thunder + Tentacruel3
Worker (Ice) Roman - Set1234 Snow Cloak & Ice Body mons + Ice-type sets with Hail or Blizzard
Worker (Ice) Valéry - Set1234 Snow Cloak & Ice Body mons + Ice-type sets with Hail or Blizzard
Worker Hayes - Set1234 Hippowdon, Tyranitar, Excadrill & sets with Sandstorm or Sand Tomb + Aerodactyl3, Bastiodon34, Terrakion4, Landorus1, Regirock1 - superset of Quinn
Worker Quinn - Set1234 Hippowdon + Tyranitar & sets with Sandstorm or Sand Tomb - small roster, subset of Hayes that does not include the shopping list
----
GroupA/GroupB Trainers
Set4:
Scientist (F) Charis - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Scientist (F) Lotte - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Scientist (F) Therese - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Scientist (M) Shan - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Scientist (M) Spacey - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Scientist (M) Stubs - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Clerk (Executive) Faust - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Clerk (Executive) Ulfgang - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Ace Trainer (F) Gwen - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon with 17 less Pokemon
Ace Trainer (F) Mooi - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon with 43 less Pokemon
Ace Trainer (M) Dylan - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon with 43 less Pokemon
Ace Trainer (M) Farley - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon with 17 less Pokemon
Doctor Dwight - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Doctor Levant - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Nurse Panarat - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Nurse Saisune - Set4 of Group (B) Pokemon
Pokemon Breeder (F) Janet - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Pokemon Breeder (F) Shawna - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Pokemon Breeder (M) Eoin - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Pokemon Breeder (M) Manford - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Veteran (F) Ginger - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Veteran (F) Hecate - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon
Veteran (M) Donta - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon with 17 less Pokemon
Veteran (M) Ponta - Set4 of Group (A) Pokemon with 17 less Pokemon
Set3:
Clerk (F) Anette - Set3 of Group (A) Pokemon
Clerk (F) Anora - Set3 of Group (A) Pokemon
Clerk (M) Bank - Set3 of Group (A) Pokemon
Clerk (M) Elwin - Set3 of Group (A) Pokemon
Cyclist (F) Birgit - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Cyclist (F) Margit - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Cyclist (M) Dante - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Cyclist (M) Marion - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Pokemon Ranger (F) Ivy - Set3 of Group (A) Pokemon
Pokemon Ranger (F) Paula - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Pokemon Ranger (F) Terran - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Pokemon Ranger (M) Mouse - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Pokemon Ranger (M) Skyblue - Set3 of Group (A) Pokemon
Pokemon Ranger (M) Smokey - Set3 of Group (B) Pokemon
Set2:
Waiter Gonyan - Set2 of Group (A) Pokemon
Waiter Hasan - Set2 of Group (B) Pokemon
Waitress Amber - Set2 of Group (B) Pokemon
Waitress Roe - Set2 of Group (A) Pokemon
Set1:
Backpacker (F) Simone - Set1 of Group (B) Pokemon
Backpacker (F) Wald - Set1 of Group (A) Pokemon
Backpacker (M) Cedric - Set1 of Group (B) Pokemon
Backpacker (M) Felton - Set1 of Group (A) Pokemon
----
Set1234 trainers
Pilot Artemas - Set1234 of Flying Types including Thundurus, Tornadus & the Kanto birds (Landorus excluded)
Pilot Chand - Set1234 of Flying Types including Thundurus, Tornadus & the Kanto birds (Landorus excluded)
Depot Agent Isadore - Set1234 + Lanturn3, with minor exceptions; Electric and Steel Types
Depot Agent Ramses - Set1234 + Lanturn3, with minor exceptions; Electric and Steel Types
Biker Petro - Set1234 - Pseudo-legendaries + Gyarados, Starmie, Blissey, Infernape, Bronzong, Spiritomb, Weavile, Togekiss, Yanmega, Archeops, Escavalier, Haxorus
Biker Philipo - Set1234 - Pseudo-legendaries + Gyarados, Starmie, Blissey, Infernape, Bronzong, Spiritomb, Weavile, Togekiss, Yanmega, Archeops, Escavalier, Haxorus
Hiker Jorge - Set1234 Ground Types
Hiker Kemuel - Set1234 Rock Types
Gentleman Camus - Set1234 Legendaries
Gentleman Kavan - Set1234 Legendaries
Maid Anguile - Set1234 Starters
Maid Fesan - Set1234 Starters
Nursery Aide Chachi - Set1234 Eeveelutions
Nursery Aide Evelyn - Set1234 Eeveelutions
Artist Hacikan - Set1234 Steel-types + Starmie, Drifblim, Porygon2, Porygon-Z, Spiritomb, Claydol
Artist Rikkyu - Set1234 Steel-types + Starmie, Drifblim, Porygon2, Porygon-Z, Spiritomb, Claydol
Socialite Aparna - Set1234 Legendaries
Socialite Saty - Set1234 Legendaries
Veteran (F) Jeune - Set1234 of Legendaries
Veteran (F) Risha - Set1234 of Legendaries
Veteran (M) Colombo - Set1234 of Legendaries
Veteran (M) Leron - Set1234 of Legendaries
----
Irregular Trainers
Ace Trainer (F) Palm - One set per species - Arcanine4, Krookodile4, Regice4, some Set4s, Salamence2, Blissey3, Lickilicky3, Mandibuzz1, Spiritomb3, Granbull3, Ferrothorn2
Ace Trainer (M) Reigel - One set per species - Arcanine4, Krookodile4, Regice4, some Set4s, Salamence2, Blissey3, Lickilicky3, Mandibuzz1, Spiritomb3, Granbull3, Ferrothorn2
Harlequin Aramis - Trick Room Team. Every set with TR for TR species except for Slowking1 (Slowking4 NOT on the roster) & Iron Ball holders + Steelix4, Hippowdon4, Rampardos4, Hariyama3, Rhyperior4, Gigalith4
Harlequin Athos - Trick Room Team. Every set with TR for TR species except for Slowking1 (Slowking4 NOT on the roster) & Iron Ball holders + Steelix4, Hippowdon4, Rampardos4, Hariyama3, Rhyperior4, Gigalith4
Janitor Eric - Double Battle Specialist
Janitor Oscar - Double Battle Specialist
Policeman Bobemon - Annoyer Movesets
Policeman Bobnori - Annoyer Movesets
Roughneck Ganymed - OHKO Users
Roughneck Proteus - OHKO Users
Last edited:
recently found out gen5's GTS has an exploit that allows online transfers again, so I wanted to test out some teams via emulator before playing them on ds. googling team construction ideas led me back to smogon (and I forgot about this account!), so thanks to everyone in this thread on their subway experiences, turskain for his battle subway preloaded damage calculator, this website for the list of subway pokemon, the pokemon showdown website for a general-use damage calc, and the psypoke website for the list of trainers and their potential pokemon, which saved even more guesswork from looking at the general subway list
incoming tl;dr post but i really wanted to share this one notable battle - the streak-ending loss @ battle #92. I spent the past weekend grinding out 91 wins at the subway (obviously not a legit record because emulator), and battle #92 was the only time i restarted a save state because i got decimated by a perfectly-formed roster. my current team:
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers (lead)
Relaxed Nature
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Thunder Wave
Jellicent @ Rocky Helmet
Calm Nature
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD
- Scald
- Recover
- Will-o-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Adamant Nature
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Dance
all standard sets from smogon, and i was pretty surprised how easily it racked up 91 wins. initial thought was ferrothorn would pave a way for a dragonite sweep with t-wave+seed+stealth rock. thought stealth rock was key because i read the subway possesses many sturdy/sashed mons, priority revenge attacks, etc. cripple+dragonite sweep ended up not being reality because most battles were grinding stallfests. quickly found that there aren't many safe setup opportunities for dragonite, and didn't anticipate how heavily this team leans on ferrothorn to scout and stall. dragonite does function as a good cleaner though; pop off a dd, outrage, and pray. being up 3-2 with one of my walls healthy and dragonite untouched means a confirmed victory. started off with a choice specs latios over jellicent but my streak ended in the 40s to a hail team so i swapped it for a jellicent. haven't fully theorymon'd the EV and natures yet. both ferrothorn and jellicent could use some tweaking for specific threats but that comes with experience
this ferrothorn+jellicent duo is an incredible defensive core. had many battles where the only safe strat was stall out focus blasts through ferrothorn/jellicent swaps - it almost always works because most mons have an attack that's resisted by ferrothorn, and it's baited out by switching in jellicent. either mon can out-stall every stall set i've faced. sometimes wish i'd have spikes over stealth rock but spikes is only useful against grounded pokemon. WoW > toxic on jellicent since it's a special wall and it needs the burn damage against a physical mon. sometimes wish i had something bulkier than jellicent, eg suicune, but i've abused the hell out its wonderful water/ghost typing. water absorb is nice but the times it helped is around three times - strongly considering cursed body rn
there are two scenarios where i've seen the AI try to predict my switch strat: one is when i toss in dragonite to take an earthquake; the second is if i switch jellicent into an overheat. the ai seems to follow up EQ with another EQ 100% of the time, and overheat->overheat 50% of the time
issues: while jellicent is great, the lack of lefties really hurts its ability to stall and tank. rocky helmet helped a few times for sash breaking and stall, but more often than not i wish he had passive healing. dragonite's multiscale is incredible, but being adamant @ base 80 speed it needs at least two dances to outspeed and OHKO the subway. also its sweep isn't guaranteed without stealth rock and an intact lum berry to ward off potential flame body/static/outrage confusion. debated dragon claw over outrage because outrage's confusion has burned me, but given the noticeable power drop there just isn't enough setup time. +1 outrage w/stealth rock is a death sentence for so many mons. three dances is the most i can safely get before feeling greedy, and three turns of setup is an eternity.
common threats:
- lead glaceon. i've seen set2-4 several times and modest STAB blizzard (set 3,4) coming off 130 special attack is no joke. set3 is sashed and the other has brightpowder. glaceon's opening blizzard froze ferrothorn a couple times, and one time its brightpowder triggered a thunder wave miss. writing this post made me rethink my approach because i always open with a risky thunder wave when i should really start stalling out blizzard via the jellicent/ferrothorn trick. jellicent can handle glaceon 1v1 but it's at risk of criticals and won't look good after the encounter. every few shadow balls seem to trigger a spd drop anyway so i still ending up switching
- hail teams. when my streak ended the first time, beartic's nevermeltice-boosted blizzard caused a freeze and took >50% off ferrothorn. one of my mons revenged ferrothorn, but froslass soloed latios and dragonite. a couple froslass sets have ice shard, and because of its immunity to extremespeed, my only option is to send out one of my walls. the hardest-hitting version (set2) does 50-60% if multiscale is active, otherwise it's a clean OHKO. weavile is less threatening because the sets with ice shard don't hit ferrothorn hard enough or possess a dark-type move for jellicent. i can only deal with heavy-hitting ice types (eg abomasnow) if the ferrothorn/jellicent duo is healthy, otherwise i'm done
- lead physical-attacking fire types, ie infernape or anything with flare blitz. jellicent is a special wall and while he can tank several flare blitzes, the opposing mon usually has shadow claw or a hard-hitting neutral physical attack to cause a force out. dragonite can come in on most, if not all fire sweepers, but i only do it as a last resort since it needs at least one turn of setup to outspeed and OHKO things with outrage, and that puts it at risk of a flare blitz/flame body burn. i learned the hard way (outlined below) that the lum berry needs to be conserved to facilitate the sweep, not the setup.
this is the streak-ending battle #92 team (cyclist dante):
Breloom @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 255 Atk / 255 Spe
- Spore
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Rock Slide
Electrode @ Air Balloon
Timid Nature
Ability: Static
EVs: 255 SpA / 255 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Mirror Coat
- Signal Beam
- Protect
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 255 HP / 255 SpD
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- Swagger
- Psych Up
breloom leads with spore. looked up its moveset after the fact and thought oh crap, STAB focus punch will end ferrothorn so i switch in jellicent. look at breloom's moveset again, see seed bomb's base power is 80 and another oh crap my mon is done moment. quickly remember dragonite takes 1/4 dmg from grass so i'm guaranteed one turn of setup from a combination of lum berry to ward off spore and rock slide through its natural bulk/multiscale, and think i'm golden for a possible quick sweep. seed bomb does barely anything on the switch, but instead of spore, dragonite eats a rock slide AND a flinch. now the situation is bad - dragonite @ ~55% hp, it's not guaranteed a setup turn, and the opponent still has three healthy mons. i go for the hail mary and hope two extremespeeds can 2hko breloom. the 2hko happens (calcs say 46.5% chance of 2hko) but breloom leaves a parting gift in effect spore: paralysis. second mon comes out and it's an electrode, who revenges with a thunderbolt. send out ferrothorn and i'm feeling confident, that despite a worse case scenario of 5 turns of sleep, it can tank everything from electrode, cripple with t-wave, and recover most of its lost hp with leech seed. that plan worked and out comes spiritomb. spiritomb starts off with WoW, and even though it lands i think i'm in the clear; ferrothorn has outlasted similar spiritomb sets in previous encounters. ferrothorn's t-wave lands but takes spiritomb's swagger in the process. then the following three turns: spiritomb psych up & ferrothorn eats burn + confusion damage, 2x spiritomb shadow sneak & ferrothorn eats burn + confusion damage. ferrothorn faints, and i'm in disbelief because i know my streak is ending - off memory i know spiritomb's base attack is meaty enough to OHKO or 2HKO jellicent with +2 shadow sneak (had a good laugh at mandibuzz, whose +2 incinerate managed less than 25% off ferrothorn).
i reload and do the usual rationalization of a habitual savescummer - this didnt count, i should've consulted the list of subway pokemon and pulled ferrothorn immediately, and since this is on emulator why the hell not. i pull ferrothorn for dragonite. lum berry cures spore and i ready up fire punch. the glory that is multiscale turns rock slide into a 3hko, at worst a 2hko factoring criticals. according to the calcs, fire punch has a 12.5% chance of OHKO, so fire punch + extremespeed is a confirmed 2HKO, and if i'm lucky for the OHKO maybe i've a turn of setup then outrage to win. jolly breloom is faster than adamant dragonite by only two points so it moves first. of course, anyone who has played any previous gen's battle frontier (or any video game really) knows that this game's rng is analogous to murphy's law, breloom scores itself another rock slide flinch. now i'm screwed again; with focus sash intact my only option yet again is 2x extremespeed @ 46.5% chance of 2HKO. this time the gambit fails and the only path to victory is a true hail mary. maybe ferrothorn will wake up immediately after 1 turn of sleep, maybe focus punch's 93.8% chance to OHKO will turn in my favor and get in a thunder wave, and make the comeback. i lose
reload and this time rng is friendlier - no flinches, no effect spore, and i win. an empty win since i still lost 2/3, and it's the first time i thought i witnessed the mythical perfect computer-generated counter. in retrospect, rng was actually not completely unfavorable, because with both rock slide's flinch and effect spore probability both at 30%, basic probability says there's a 65.7% chance of at least one of those triggering, which actually agrees with my loss rate of 66.7%
just to see if there really wasn't a safe strat, i go back to the damage calc. ferrothorn takes max 7.7% damage from seed bomb. factoring crits, that's an expected 8.6% damage before leftovers, so 2.4% expected damage after leftovers. doing half-baked math before bedtime finally triggered the memory of my patented jellicent/ferrothorn pp stall strat. this means there's an expected 42 turns until ferrothorn succumbs to seed bomb. but seed bomb only has 15 pp along with focus punch's 20. also the ai won't smartly conserve seed bomb pp as a counter. stalling out focus blast doesn't take much effort since it's only 5 pp, but i usually lose focus (lol) for moves at 10 pp or up because i'm not paying full attention, eg brick break or payback, and either ferrothorn or jellicent get blasted due to my inattention.
the stall marathon begins. the plan is to allow ferrothorn to be spore'd, then cycle in jellicent for focus punch and ferrothorn for seed bomb. didn't expect the AI to cotton on to my switching strategy because it attempted to spore jellicent, but i stuck to my cycling strat. after spore x12, seed bomb x7 (including two crits), i finally stalled out all 20 focus punches. since the AI didn't relentlessly pepper ferrothorn with seed bomb, i was sitting around ~90% health ready to cripple + power whip away its focus sash. i get a fortuitous t-wave paralyze upon a dragon dance, and after two setup turns dragonite plows through breloom et al. didn't even burn its lum berry from an unlucky effect spore or electrode's static.
moral of the story, if you're seriously aiming for a big streak at the battle frontier/subway/PWT/maison/etc, don't do it when your brain is tired or fried. there are little tips and tricks that you'll remember for most battles but forget if you're tired or distracted. pp stalling at this level requires way too much work because it necessitates attentive battle log tracking. anyone used to pokemon showdown will be spoiled because it tracks stat boosts, pp, etc. think it took around a half hour before i stalled out focus punch. skimming through this thread shows carelessness or misprediction due to carelessness is major factor in losses. hax happens, but it's rare. while this team is fun, it's not haxproof and failproof like the legendary truant durant+dragonite duo. this was a huge test in patience because i'm constantly forced to reference the subway mon list and damage calc. every round of 7 subway battles takes about an hour
tl;dr lost twice to the same team, won the third time because of a stall marathon
helpful links:
for anyone interested in the list of subway trainers, their quotes, and potential rosters; cross-ref with the smogon list of 980:
http://www.psypokes.com/bw/subway_trainers.php
https://www.smogon.com/ingame/bc/bw_subway_pokemon
turskain's calc preloaded with subway sets
https://turskain.github.io/
multipurpose damage calc
https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/
incoming tl;dr post but i really wanted to share this one notable battle - the streak-ending loss @ battle #92. I spent the past weekend grinding out 91 wins at the subway (obviously not a legit record because emulator), and battle #92 was the only time i restarted a save state because i got decimated by a perfectly-formed roster. my current team:
Ferrothorn @ Leftovers (lead)
Relaxed Nature
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Thunder Wave
Jellicent @ Rocky Helmet
Calm Nature
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Def / 220 SpD
- Scald
- Recover
- Will-o-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Adamant Nature
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Fire Punch
- Dragon Dance
all standard sets from smogon, and i was pretty surprised how easily it racked up 91 wins. initial thought was ferrothorn would pave a way for a dragonite sweep with t-wave+seed+stealth rock. thought stealth rock was key because i read the subway possesses many sturdy/sashed mons, priority revenge attacks, etc. cripple+dragonite sweep ended up not being reality because most battles were grinding stallfests. quickly found that there aren't many safe setup opportunities for dragonite, and didn't anticipate how heavily this team leans on ferrothorn to scout and stall. dragonite does function as a good cleaner though; pop off a dd, outrage, and pray. being up 3-2 with one of my walls healthy and dragonite untouched means a confirmed victory. started off with a choice specs latios over jellicent but my streak ended in the 40s to a hail team so i swapped it for a jellicent. haven't fully theorymon'd the EV and natures yet. both ferrothorn and jellicent could use some tweaking for specific threats but that comes with experience
this ferrothorn+jellicent duo is an incredible defensive core. had many battles where the only safe strat was stall out focus blasts through ferrothorn/jellicent swaps - it almost always works because most mons have an attack that's resisted by ferrothorn, and it's baited out by switching in jellicent. either mon can out-stall every stall set i've faced. sometimes wish i'd have spikes over stealth rock but spikes is only useful against grounded pokemon. WoW > toxic on jellicent since it's a special wall and it needs the burn damage against a physical mon. sometimes wish i had something bulkier than jellicent, eg suicune, but i've abused the hell out its wonderful water/ghost typing. water absorb is nice but the times it helped is around three times - strongly considering cursed body rn
there are two scenarios where i've seen the AI try to predict my switch strat: one is when i toss in dragonite to take an earthquake; the second is if i switch jellicent into an overheat. the ai seems to follow up EQ with another EQ 100% of the time, and overheat->overheat 50% of the time
issues: while jellicent is great, the lack of lefties really hurts its ability to stall and tank. rocky helmet helped a few times for sash breaking and stall, but more often than not i wish he had passive healing. dragonite's multiscale is incredible, but being adamant @ base 80 speed it needs at least two dances to outspeed and OHKO the subway. also its sweep isn't guaranteed without stealth rock and an intact lum berry to ward off potential flame body/static/outrage confusion. debated dragon claw over outrage because outrage's confusion has burned me, but given the noticeable power drop there just isn't enough setup time. +1 outrage w/stealth rock is a death sentence for so many mons. three dances is the most i can safely get before feeling greedy, and three turns of setup is an eternity.
common threats:
- lead glaceon. i've seen set2-4 several times and modest STAB blizzard (set 3,4) coming off 130 special attack is no joke. set3 is sashed and the other has brightpowder. glaceon's opening blizzard froze ferrothorn a couple times, and one time its brightpowder triggered a thunder wave miss. writing this post made me rethink my approach because i always open with a risky thunder wave when i should really start stalling out blizzard via the jellicent/ferrothorn trick. jellicent can handle glaceon 1v1 but it's at risk of criticals and won't look good after the encounter. every few shadow balls seem to trigger a spd drop anyway so i still ending up switching
- hail teams. when my streak ended the first time, beartic's nevermeltice-boosted blizzard caused a freeze and took >50% off ferrothorn. one of my mons revenged ferrothorn, but froslass soloed latios and dragonite. a couple froslass sets have ice shard, and because of its immunity to extremespeed, my only option is to send out one of my walls. the hardest-hitting version (set2) does 50-60% if multiscale is active, otherwise it's a clean OHKO. weavile is less threatening because the sets with ice shard don't hit ferrothorn hard enough or possess a dark-type move for jellicent. i can only deal with heavy-hitting ice types (eg abomasnow) if the ferrothorn/jellicent duo is healthy, otherwise i'm done
- lead physical-attacking fire types, ie infernape or anything with flare blitz. jellicent is a special wall and while he can tank several flare blitzes, the opposing mon usually has shadow claw or a hard-hitting neutral physical attack to cause a force out. dragonite can come in on most, if not all fire sweepers, but i only do it as a last resort since it needs at least one turn of setup to outspeed and OHKO things with outrage, and that puts it at risk of a flare blitz/flame body burn. i learned the hard way (outlined below) that the lum berry needs to be conserved to facilitate the sweep, not the setup.
this is the streak-ending battle #92 team (cyclist dante):
Breloom @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
Ability: Effect Spore
EVs: 255 Atk / 255 Spe
- Spore
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Rock Slide
Electrode @ Air Balloon
Timid Nature
Ability: Static
EVs: 255 SpA / 255 Spe
- Thunderbolt
- Mirror Coat
- Signal Beam
- Protect
Spiritomb @ Leftovers
Careful Nature
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 255 HP / 255 SpD
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Sneak
- Swagger
- Psych Up
breloom leads with spore. looked up its moveset after the fact and thought oh crap, STAB focus punch will end ferrothorn so i switch in jellicent. look at breloom's moveset again, see seed bomb's base power is 80 and another oh crap my mon is done moment. quickly remember dragonite takes 1/4 dmg from grass so i'm guaranteed one turn of setup from a combination of lum berry to ward off spore and rock slide through its natural bulk/multiscale, and think i'm golden for a possible quick sweep. seed bomb does barely anything on the switch, but instead of spore, dragonite eats a rock slide AND a flinch. now the situation is bad - dragonite @ ~55% hp, it's not guaranteed a setup turn, and the opponent still has three healthy mons. i go for the hail mary and hope two extremespeeds can 2hko breloom. the 2hko happens (calcs say 46.5% chance of 2hko) but breloom leaves a parting gift in effect spore: paralysis. second mon comes out and it's an electrode, who revenges with a thunderbolt. send out ferrothorn and i'm feeling confident, that despite a worse case scenario of 5 turns of sleep, it can tank everything from electrode, cripple with t-wave, and recover most of its lost hp with leech seed. that plan worked and out comes spiritomb. spiritomb starts off with WoW, and even though it lands i think i'm in the clear; ferrothorn has outlasted similar spiritomb sets in previous encounters. ferrothorn's t-wave lands but takes spiritomb's swagger in the process. then the following three turns: spiritomb psych up & ferrothorn eats burn + confusion damage, 2x spiritomb shadow sneak & ferrothorn eats burn + confusion damage. ferrothorn faints, and i'm in disbelief because i know my streak is ending - off memory i know spiritomb's base attack is meaty enough to OHKO or 2HKO jellicent with +2 shadow sneak (had a good laugh at mandibuzz, whose +2 incinerate managed less than 25% off ferrothorn).
i reload and do the usual rationalization of a habitual savescummer - this didnt count, i should've consulted the list of subway pokemon and pulled ferrothorn immediately, and since this is on emulator why the hell not. i pull ferrothorn for dragonite. lum berry cures spore and i ready up fire punch. the glory that is multiscale turns rock slide into a 3hko, at worst a 2hko factoring criticals. according to the calcs, fire punch has a 12.5% chance of OHKO, so fire punch + extremespeed is a confirmed 2HKO, and if i'm lucky for the OHKO maybe i've a turn of setup then outrage to win. jolly breloom is faster than adamant dragonite by only two points so it moves first. of course, anyone who has played any previous gen's battle frontier (or any video game really) knows that this game's rng is analogous to murphy's law, breloom scores itself another rock slide flinch. now i'm screwed again; with focus sash intact my only option yet again is 2x extremespeed @ 46.5% chance of 2HKO. this time the gambit fails and the only path to victory is a true hail mary. maybe ferrothorn will wake up immediately after 1 turn of sleep, maybe focus punch's 93.8% chance to OHKO will turn in my favor and get in a thunder wave, and make the comeback. i lose
reload and this time rng is friendlier - no flinches, no effect spore, and i win. an empty win since i still lost 2/3, and it's the first time i thought i witnessed the mythical perfect computer-generated counter. in retrospect, rng was actually not completely unfavorable, because with both rock slide's flinch and effect spore probability both at 30%, basic probability says there's a 65.7% chance of at least one of those triggering, which actually agrees with my loss rate of 66.7%
just to see if there really wasn't a safe strat, i go back to the damage calc. ferrothorn takes max 7.7% damage from seed bomb. factoring crits, that's an expected 8.6% damage before leftovers, so 2.4% expected damage after leftovers. doing half-baked math before bedtime finally triggered the memory of my patented jellicent/ferrothorn pp stall strat. this means there's an expected 42 turns until ferrothorn succumbs to seed bomb. but seed bomb only has 15 pp along with focus punch's 20. also the ai won't smartly conserve seed bomb pp as a counter. stalling out focus blast doesn't take much effort since it's only 5 pp, but i usually lose focus (lol) for moves at 10 pp or up because i'm not paying full attention, eg brick break or payback, and either ferrothorn or jellicent get blasted due to my inattention.
the stall marathon begins. the plan is to allow ferrothorn to be spore'd, then cycle in jellicent for focus punch and ferrothorn for seed bomb. didn't expect the AI to cotton on to my switching strategy because it attempted to spore jellicent, but i stuck to my cycling strat. after spore x12, seed bomb x7 (including two crits), i finally stalled out all 20 focus punches. since the AI didn't relentlessly pepper ferrothorn with seed bomb, i was sitting around ~90% health ready to cripple + power whip away its focus sash. i get a fortuitous t-wave paralyze upon a dragon dance, and after two setup turns dragonite plows through breloom et al. didn't even burn its lum berry from an unlucky effect spore or electrode's static.
moral of the story, if you're seriously aiming for a big streak at the battle frontier/subway/PWT/maison/etc, don't do it when your brain is tired or fried. there are little tips and tricks that you'll remember for most battles but forget if you're tired or distracted. pp stalling at this level requires way too much work because it necessitates attentive battle log tracking. anyone used to pokemon showdown will be spoiled because it tracks stat boosts, pp, etc. think it took around a half hour before i stalled out focus punch. skimming through this thread shows carelessness or misprediction due to carelessness is major factor in losses. hax happens, but it's rare. while this team is fun, it's not haxproof and failproof like the legendary truant durant+dragonite duo. this was a huge test in patience because i'm constantly forced to reference the subway mon list and damage calc. every round of 7 subway battles takes about an hour
tl;dr lost twice to the same team, won the third time because of a stall marathon
helpful links:
for anyone interested in the list of subway trainers, their quotes, and potential rosters; cross-ref with the smogon list of 980:
http://www.psypokes.com/bw/subway_trainers.php
https://www.smogon.com/ingame/bc/bw_subway_pokemon
turskain's calc preloaded with subway sets
https://turskain.github.io/
multipurpose damage calc
https://calc.pokemonshowdown.com/
Last edited:
Hi guys, are you ready for an assassination in sleep?
I am reporting a finished streak of 91 battles, with quite an unconventional team that murders its victims when they are most vulnerable:
Breeloom @ Choicescarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
-Bullet Seed
-Low Kick
-Mach Punch (never used)
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 28 Atk / 252 SAtk / 228 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Surf
- Protect
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 20 HP / 236 SAtk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dark Pulse
- Psych Up
- Protect
Metagross @ Life-Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Protect
Can one tell me again how to insert images? I know it works with BB-Codes and have already done it, but I don't know where to get these urls^^
How can I upload an image? Does it work only with an url?
I am reporting a finished streak of 91 battles, with quite an unconventional team that murders its victims when they are most vulnerable:
Breeloom @ Choicescarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
-Bullet Seed
-Low Kick
-Mach Punch (never used)
Cloyster @ Focus Sash
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 28 Atk / 252 SAtk / 228 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Surf
- Protect
Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 20 HP / 236 SAtk / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Dark Pulse
- Psych Up
- Protect
Metagross @ Life-Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Earthquake
- Bullet Punch
- Protect
Can one tell me again how to insert images? I know it works with BB-Codes and have already done it, but I don't know where to get these urls^^
Every once in a while the idea of a scarfed Spore-Breloom for Doubles to gain momentum similar to Fake Out was hitting me. It took long until I actually tried it, not really believing in it because of all the chesto-berries, priority, faster scarfers etc, but eventually I just threw it together with my singles Cloyster and was looking how it worked. And it worked ... mediocre in the beginning. Not too well definitely, and playing without spreadsheet is impossible. I experimented with the backline, and had Zapdos and Scizor, then replaced Zapdos with Hydreigon for the Water resistance from my own Surfs, but this produced other problems and I really missed Zapdos strong Thunderbolt to get rid of water types Cloyster cannot kill easily. I changed from Scizor to Metagross and tried a few things, switching back etc, but it was always somehow suboptimal... I never got past battle 47, so I almost settled with it.
I really wanted that water resist but also something that hits waters hard, and I didn't want a plant because I already had Breloom, and eventually there was not much left, but.. Rotom-W! Hydropump was off limits, but maybe it could stand its way with its (kind of) unique typing. And it worked wonderfully! I decided to give it a try and started filling its attack-slots, and when Psych Up came to my mind, I knew this was going to be either complete crap or a whole lot of fun! But after one strange setup, why not another one, and in the end I think this was what really pushed this team a lot farther! (Together with paying closest attention to spread sheets)
I really wanted that water resist but also something that hits waters hard, and I didn't want a plant because I already had Breloom, and eventually there was not much left, but.. Rotom-W! Hydropump was off limits, but maybe it could stand its way with its (kind of) unique typing. And it worked wonderfully! I decided to give it a try and started filling its attack-slots, and when Psych Up came to my mind, I knew this was going to be either complete crap or a whole lot of fun! But after one strange setup, why not another one, and in the end I think this was what really pushed this team a lot farther! (Together with paying closest attention to spread sheets)
Breloom outspeeds Jolteon and the likes which is very nice. He doesn't need to live much (well to live a boosted Surf crit would be nice), so it is just speed + attack. While its main purpose is spreading Spore it hits some delicious OHKOs.
Cloyster wants much spread damage, so i maxed SAtk. After one SS it outspeeds everything. Protect is a must, I had so many double attacks going on him with one HP. Foes really want to see him dead. Once at the first turn of the battle a Tornadus and a Staraptor decided to leave Breloom and instead take Cloyster out together (I lost that battle). I had very many bad experiences and false predictions when using Protect on other teams, but with this team I was like 95% correct. Maybe this is partly because of the nice type synergy, or maybe the AI favors targetting boosted pokemon? I don't know.
Rotom, basically max speed and SAtk, but with 128 HP for the Lefties. Lefties you ask?? Well yeah, in spite of it being in the back it made nice use of it. I am not sure if it saved a battle, but it always felt nice to have it. Often it gets a Surf on the switch in (surviving a crit), regains a little health, then Psych Up, regains a little health, a foe still asleep or Protect, gains a little health, ... I don't remember a situation aside from the losing battle where I had to let it pass desperately. If it died the battle mostly was won and it was some controlled trading down. Also I never really missed additional power from something like a Life Orb. With Psyching Up a SS, it ended up being able to kill what I wanted it to kill. Also the Life Orb is needed somewhere else. Maybe a Rindo Berry would be better, could have also saved me at the losing battle. But against these double team jerks Psych Up + Lefties might be a nice way to stall them dead.
Overall I am more than content with it! +2+2Rotom is a monstrosity! Oh and you all know the nice coverage of Ice and Electric ;)
Metagross, first I thought about making him a little bulkier and slower, but he really needs to power of the Life Orb, and bulk + Life Orb doesn't seem like a good idea. Thought of giving him Psych Up, too, but decided against it, because if already Rotom got the boost, I never was in trouble. Trouble begins if Cloyster dies when still many foes are left and I couldn't get Rotoms Psych Up. Maybe it would be worth a try though. +2+2 Meta also seems like a lot of fun. Probably I would skip Bullet Punch then, but it was really handy at times.
Really appreciated its steel type and poison immunity. Cloyster doesn't like eg sludgewave for the poison. EQ and Bullet Punch really come in handy at Cloysters or Rotoms slaughter finishing something off, getting things in KO range etc. Very nicest team support.
Cloyster wants much spread damage, so i maxed SAtk. After one SS it outspeeds everything. Protect is a must, I had so many double attacks going on him with one HP. Foes really want to see him dead. Once at the first turn of the battle a Tornadus and a Staraptor decided to leave Breloom and instead take Cloyster out together (I lost that battle). I had very many bad experiences and false predictions when using Protect on other teams, but with this team I was like 95% correct. Maybe this is partly because of the nice type synergy, or maybe the AI favors targetting boosted pokemon? I don't know.
Rotom, basically max speed and SAtk, but with 128 HP for the Lefties. Lefties you ask?? Well yeah, in spite of it being in the back it made nice use of it. I am not sure if it saved a battle, but it always felt nice to have it. Often it gets a Surf on the switch in (surviving a crit), regains a little health, then Psych Up, regains a little health, a foe still asleep or Protect, gains a little health, ... I don't remember a situation aside from the losing battle where I had to let it pass desperately. If it died the battle mostly was won and it was some controlled trading down. Also I never really missed additional power from something like a Life Orb. With Psyching Up a SS, it ended up being able to kill what I wanted it to kill. Also the Life Orb is needed somewhere else. Maybe a Rindo Berry would be better, could have also saved me at the losing battle. But against these double team jerks Psych Up + Lefties might be a nice way to stall them dead.
Overall I am more than content with it! +2+2Rotom is a monstrosity! Oh and you all know the nice coverage of Ice and Electric ;)
Metagross, first I thought about making him a little bulkier and slower, but he really needs to power of the Life Orb, and bulk + Life Orb doesn't seem like a good idea. Thought of giving him Psych Up, too, but decided against it, because if already Rotom got the boost, I never was in trouble. Trouble begins if Cloyster dies when still many foes are left and I couldn't get Rotoms Psych Up. Maybe it would be worth a try though. +2+2 Meta also seems like a lot of fun. Probably I would skip Bullet Punch then, but it was really handy at times.
Really appreciated its steel type and poison immunity. Cloyster doesn't like eg sludgewave for the poison. EQ and Bullet Punch really come in handy at Cloysters or Rotoms slaughter finishing something off, getting things in KO range etc. Very nicest team support.
Obviously the strategy is:
1. Spore one opponent, tank a hit and Shell Smash.
2. Kill everything while putting the world to sleep
This works fine in many battles. Relatively often you can repeat 1. + 2. the whole battle: Breloom spores the opponent that does not sleep, and Closter kills the other one, alternating. If Cloyster is boosted I usually look for ways to bring Rotom in for Psych Up. Often you want to get Breloom out anyways because of turns where one foes sleeps and the other is killed by Cloyster that turn. That is a common scenario: Closter at 1HP and Rotom at its side. Then I often go for Psych Up and either Protect or attack. In previous team versions here I often just scored a KO and lost my boosted Cloyster in return to the other foe. Now with Rotom I usually have still a heavily boosted pokemon and sometimes even two! It is these situations + accurate use of the spread sheet which suddenly more than doubled my streak with this strategy I think.
Of course dominating some battles is nothing if you lose on others. There are many tough matchups, including for instance the danger of chesto/lum berries (tornadus and thundurus being some of the worst. this gamble should lead to a loss sooner or later). Also scarfers that outspeed Breloom and have spread moves, which may lead to Closter getting killed that turn (Hello Eruption. Should also be a safe loss eventually). In general attacks that can kill Closter in one turn like Flamethrower, SludgeWave, ... inducing Status that kill through the sash.
Against fire types I might switch Breloom for Rotom, against poisons I might bring Meta in etc while Cloyster Protects eg.
Also weather renders the sash useless, which luckily is only sand. Sand can be a problem, but not sand alone. Hippowdon doesn't hit very hard and goes often for curse, which is almost an auto win for me, and Tyranitar is OHKOed by Brelooms Low Kick (not the sash Set), if I don't want to Spore it. Often this is the way to go, because even after SS Cloyster cannot kill Tyranitar.
Yeah, really dangerous stuff for this team around. Often it however needs two of them to pose a problem. One is just dealt with Spore + SS, which almost always leads to an easy win then.
TR has not been a big issue until now. Often I cannot stop it because of Lum Berries, but Spore on the other enemy + SS leaves me in a good position: TR going up then means Cloyster still has its Sash. Protect/Spore/switching always brought me through TR without too many issues.
Problematic, too are trainers with rosters that resist many of Cloysters moves like Steels or especially water types. For the water types I might go with Bullet Seed which kills all pokemon 4xweak to it I think. Usually I go for Spore and SS though and try to Psych Up.
Early wakeups also pose a problem and sometimes I just have to hope. Often I can play around them however, either killing quick enough or Protecting. Also one has to be cautious about Surf crits on Breloom, because that is OHKO. Often you can easily risk it, but sometimes you really need a Spore going off, and killing Breloom before he Spores means killing Cloyster, too. Need to play around accordingly.
In general I think this team profits very much from the good type synergy. Especially the backrow has somewhat complementary weaknesses, few too, and many resistances, but also Breloom actually walls certain Mons a little bit, like Gyarados or Tyranitar, and being resistant he can tank the 2 spread moves of this team if needed. Also of course Rotom works well with my spread moves. Surfs use is obvious, but also EQ with Life Orb does a great great job, killing poison types Cloyster doesn't like or Magnezone down to 1HP etc.
Having Breloom in the backhand also often is quite useful. As a quick finisher or simply returning to its main purpose of dealing Spore he always comes in handy, to let the slaughter of Rotom/Cloyster going on. Even Meta once killed almost the complete enemy team by Sporing and Protecting accordingly. In fact I had some of the most ridiculous comebacks with this team. 200Speed Spore is such an overpowered thing, easily capable of turning the battle for 180°.
I really enjoyed that team, there is such a variety of crazy play, effective at the same time and it definitely could have gone further. The spread sheet however is mandatory. I would be curious if someone else could make more out of the Scarf-Spore idea. It has parallels to Fake Out, but is often superior due to sleep often lasting longer than one turn, but for the biggest part in Spore being usable all the time, which often causes an insane blocking and delaying of the enemy team.
Maybe I give it another try, most likely not though as there are other things that need my time.
And sorry, this was kind of a bad writeup, no real structure, and I feel my english has suffered and I draw a connection to me reading the Lord of the Rings right now in english and the somewhat older language and grammar is strangely similar to german, my mother tongue, and often I'm wondering whether how I'm talking is english or german translated in a straightforward but wrong way to english, hell has this sentence grown out of control.
Thanks for reading and happy battling!
1. Spore one opponent, tank a hit and Shell Smash.
2. Kill everything while putting the world to sleep
This works fine in many battles. Relatively often you can repeat 1. + 2. the whole battle: Breloom spores the opponent that does not sleep, and Closter kills the other one, alternating. If Cloyster is boosted I usually look for ways to bring Rotom in for Psych Up. Often you want to get Breloom out anyways because of turns where one foes sleeps and the other is killed by Cloyster that turn. That is a common scenario: Closter at 1HP and Rotom at its side. Then I often go for Psych Up and either Protect or attack. In previous team versions here I often just scored a KO and lost my boosted Cloyster in return to the other foe. Now with Rotom I usually have still a heavily boosted pokemon and sometimes even two! It is these situations + accurate use of the spread sheet which suddenly more than doubled my streak with this strategy I think.
Of course dominating some battles is nothing if you lose on others. There are many tough matchups, including for instance the danger of chesto/lum berries (tornadus and thundurus being some of the worst. this gamble should lead to a loss sooner or later). Also scarfers that outspeed Breloom and have spread moves, which may lead to Closter getting killed that turn (Hello Eruption. Should also be a safe loss eventually). In general attacks that can kill Closter in one turn like Flamethrower, SludgeWave, ... inducing Status that kill through the sash.
Against fire types I might switch Breloom for Rotom, against poisons I might bring Meta in etc while Cloyster Protects eg.
Also weather renders the sash useless, which luckily is only sand. Sand can be a problem, but not sand alone. Hippowdon doesn't hit very hard and goes often for curse, which is almost an auto win for me, and Tyranitar is OHKOed by Brelooms Low Kick (not the sash Set), if I don't want to Spore it. Often this is the way to go, because even after SS Cloyster cannot kill Tyranitar.
Yeah, really dangerous stuff for this team around. Often it however needs two of them to pose a problem. One is just dealt with Spore + SS, which almost always leads to an easy win then.
TR has not been a big issue until now. Often I cannot stop it because of Lum Berries, but Spore on the other enemy + SS leaves me in a good position: TR going up then means Cloyster still has its Sash. Protect/Spore/switching always brought me through TR without too many issues.
Problematic, too are trainers with rosters that resist many of Cloysters moves like Steels or especially water types. For the water types I might go with Bullet Seed which kills all pokemon 4xweak to it I think. Usually I go for Spore and SS though and try to Psych Up.
Early wakeups also pose a problem and sometimes I just have to hope. Often I can play around them however, either killing quick enough or Protecting. Also one has to be cautious about Surf crits on Breloom, because that is OHKO. Often you can easily risk it, but sometimes you really need a Spore going off, and killing Breloom before he Spores means killing Cloyster, too. Need to play around accordingly.
In general I think this team profits very much from the good type synergy. Especially the backrow has somewhat complementary weaknesses, few too, and many resistances, but also Breloom actually walls certain Mons a little bit, like Gyarados or Tyranitar, and being resistant he can tank the 2 spread moves of this team if needed. Also of course Rotom works well with my spread moves. Surfs use is obvious, but also EQ with Life Orb does a great great job, killing poison types Cloyster doesn't like or Magnezone down to 1HP etc.
Having Breloom in the backhand also often is quite useful. As a quick finisher or simply returning to its main purpose of dealing Spore he always comes in handy, to let the slaughter of Rotom/Cloyster going on. Even Meta once killed almost the complete enemy team by Sporing and Protecting accordingly. In fact I had some of the most ridiculous comebacks with this team. 200Speed Spore is such an overpowered thing, easily capable of turning the battle for 180°.
I really enjoyed that team, there is such a variety of crazy play, effective at the same time and it definitely could have gone further. The spread sheet however is mandatory. I would be curious if someone else could make more out of the Scarf-Spore idea. It has parallels to Fake Out, but is often superior due to sleep often lasting longer than one turn, but for the biggest part in Spore being usable all the time, which often causes an insane blocking and delaying of the enemy team.
Maybe I give it another try, most likely not though as there are other things that need my time.
And sorry, this was kind of a bad writeup, no real structure, and I feel my english has suffered and I draw a connection to me reading the Lord of the Rings right now in english and the somewhat older language and grammar is strangely similar to german, my mother tongue, and often I'm wondering whether how I'm talking is english or german translated in a straightforward but wrong way to english, hell has this sentence grown out of control.
Thanks for reading and happy battling!
Maybe Rindo Berry is better on Rotom. Would probably have saved me in the losing battle. But maybe switching items just switches one danger for another, as I considered the Lefties-Rotom for an okay check for Zapdos2 eg.
As I said, maybe give Metagross also Psych Up. It could work wonders and may allow Psych Ups were Rotom wouldn't find one, but I am very sceptical about this. One might replace Metagross, but I think I am not even wholly aware against what amount of threats it protects me.
Also Brelooms 4th attack slot was never used. I thought about Thunder Punch, in case I switch back in a Gyarados it OHKOs (safe vacan berry). But other than that I see no use for it. So Superpower should be better, as it kills Porygon2, which can have a Lum and isn't OHKOed by +2Icicle Spear. Also some other minor threats go down by it. However Sporing is often the better play than straight off killing, because you can Spore on everything that comes in, in contrast to most likely fail to kill anything that comes in.
As I said, maybe give Metagross also Psych Up. It could work wonders and may allow Psych Ups were Rotom wouldn't find one, but I am very sceptical about this. One might replace Metagross, but I think I am not even wholly aware against what amount of threats it protects me.
Also Brelooms 4th attack slot was never used. I thought about Thunder Punch, in case I switch back in a Gyarados it OHKOs (safe vacan berry). But other than that I see no use for it. So Superpower should be better, as it kills Porygon2, which can have a Lum and isn't OHKOed by +2Icicle Spear. Also some other minor threats go down by it. However Sporing is often the better play than straight off killing, because you can Spore on everything that comes in, in contrast to most likely fail to kill anything that comes in.
The losing battle involved some dumb misplay and mediocre hax. Enemy team was Breloom, Weezing, Sawk, Gothitelle.
I faced Breloom and Weezing, which is problematic, because I don't want Cloyster to be spored, and neither want it to get a sludge bomb from Weezing to get it killed in one turn. So I go for Spore on Breloom and Protect Cloyster. Weezing Firestorm, kills Breloom. Could have simply SSed and the battle would be won (would have led to the aforementioned situation of Rotom coming in, I kill Breloom, Rotom Psych Up, no matter what Weezing can only kill one of them and only with luck).
I go for Rotom. Here I make the dumbest mistake: I go for Psych Up, BEFORE Cloyster was boosted! Had I just attacked I most likely would have won. Breloom wakes up and takes Rotom out with Seed Bomb. I thought it would survive, another silly mistake. Short sleep of Breloom didn't help either. Cloyster goes for SS, Weezing Thunder, brings it to the Sash, luckily no Paralysis. I bring in Meta, it is 2 vs 4. All enemies are at full HP, Cloyster has 1HP. Still I had not all too bad chances to win this if Weezing attacks Cloyster, which is likely, or if I even flinch it with Iron Head so I go for Iron Head on him and Protect Cloyster. Weezing indeed did go for Cloyster, but Breloom uses Rockslide and Metagross flinches! Crap. Iron Head would have been a 2HKO on Weezing, so I could have killed it the next turn and kill Breloom with Icicle Spear. Then it would be 2vs2 again, most likely winning for me with +2+2Cloyster. Indeed I would have taken on the Sawk and Gothitelle.
Also had I targeted Weezing with Thunderbolt before instead of the useless Psych Up it would have gone this way. Oh well.
The next turn I kill Breloom finally with Icicle Spear and go again for Iron Head on Weezing. No crit, no flinch and he finishes Cloyster.
Sawk comes in, EQ and FireStorm and its over.
Really annoying how this went. If only I hadn't made that stupid Psych Up move... And an early wake up, a RS flinch, and Weezing hitting always its Thunder and Fireblast seems a little much at a time. But I guess this also speaks for this team, taking so much to defeat it. (I mean it is nowhere near to be up for superlong streaks.)
I faced Breloom and Weezing, which is problematic, because I don't want Cloyster to be spored, and neither want it to get a sludge bomb from Weezing to get it killed in one turn. So I go for Spore on Breloom and Protect Cloyster. Weezing Firestorm, kills Breloom. Could have simply SSed and the battle would be won (would have led to the aforementioned situation of Rotom coming in, I kill Breloom, Rotom Psych Up, no matter what Weezing can only kill one of them and only with luck).
I go for Rotom. Here I make the dumbest mistake: I go for Psych Up, BEFORE Cloyster was boosted! Had I just attacked I most likely would have won. Breloom wakes up and takes Rotom out with Seed Bomb. I thought it would survive, another silly mistake. Short sleep of Breloom didn't help either. Cloyster goes for SS, Weezing Thunder, brings it to the Sash, luckily no Paralysis. I bring in Meta, it is 2 vs 4. All enemies are at full HP, Cloyster has 1HP. Still I had not all too bad chances to win this if Weezing attacks Cloyster, which is likely, or if I even flinch it with Iron Head so I go for Iron Head on him and Protect Cloyster. Weezing indeed did go for Cloyster, but Breloom uses Rockslide and Metagross flinches! Crap. Iron Head would have been a 2HKO on Weezing, so I could have killed it the next turn and kill Breloom with Icicle Spear. Then it would be 2vs2 again, most likely winning for me with +2+2Cloyster. Indeed I would have taken on the Sawk and Gothitelle.
Also had I targeted Weezing with Thunderbolt before instead of the useless Psych Up it would have gone this way. Oh well.
The next turn I kill Breloom finally with Icicle Spear and go again for Iron Head on Weezing. No crit, no flinch and he finishes Cloyster.
Sawk comes in, EQ and FireStorm and its over.
Really annoying how this went. If only I hadn't made that stupid Psych Up move... And an early wake up, a RS flinch, and Weezing hitting always its Thunder and Fireblast seems a little much at a time. But I guess this also speaks for this team, taking so much to defeat it. (I mean it is nowhere near to be up for superlong streaks.)
How can I upload an image? Does it work only with an url?
...
Last edited:
Yeah just make an imgur account (prob easiest) upload the photo and include the link to your proof
Perhaps speak to the OI mods about editing the OP since peterko’s no longer around, or someone with the time could take over (either with an updated post or new thread).
Incredible streak by the way. I’ll be giving the Subway another try. Just found my White 2 in an old DS case :) perhaps I won’t get haxed into little pieces this go around
Hello all. Currently testing out an entirely 4th gen team in the Black/White 2 Subway Super Singles
GARCHOMP@Choice Scarf ADAMANT
EQ/OUTRAGE/(Rock Slide/Fire Fang)RARELY USED
Lv. 50 stats 183/200/115/90/118/142
CRESSELIA@Leftovers BOLD
Psychic/Ice Beam/Calm Mind/Moonlight
Lv. 50 stats 227/81/189/95/150/105
SCIZOR@White Herb ADAMANT
Technician
X-Scissor/Superpower/Bullet Punch/Swords Dance
Lv. 50 stats 164/200/120/67/113/85
currently paused at 22 wins
update: paused at 49 wins
EDIT: Lost at 53. DD Gyarados overwhelmed me. Switched out Chomp too early and my attack initiative was a bit late. I’ll have another run to report about later and this time I’ll try and provide a few battle tales
EDIT: currently at 49 wins again. The AI really threw everything it had at me this time it was surprising I made it through 35-42. Had to stall out Slowbro’s Surf with Cresselia so I could switch and 2HKO with X-Scissor. Ironically Ingo was my easiest win through the past 14 battles, but then again he always is lol.
EDIT: Playing strategy/tendency has shifted more to a slow, monotonous safety-checking system. Last round of 7 took me a good 90 min.
Current streak: 56
P.S. I now have 701 BP I can do nothing with. Yay.
Basic strategy: Scarfed Chomp is able to OHKO a surprising amounts of pokes. I usually switch if the first opposing poke has a chance of holding a sash, or if their leading with an ice type or ice type user(there are quite a few in the subway so it is very tricky). Bulked water walls such as Walrein, Wailord, etc. and even Milotic usually warrant a switch to Cresselia. Watch out for Vaporeon 3 it can be rather annoying with yawn. Most of the time she has no trouble at all setting up +6 spa, spdf, subsequently sweeping through teams. Scizor can be set up on the occasional switch with chomp, as he draws in ice types. A couple Swords Dances from a max attack-Technician-bullet punch Scizor and the battle is over 85% of the time, barring rogue fire typed speedsters.
GARCHOMP@Choice Scarf ADAMANT
EQ/OUTRAGE/(Rock Slide/Fire Fang)RARELY USED
Lv. 50 stats 183/200/115/90/118/142
CRESSELIA@Leftovers BOLD
Psychic/Ice Beam/Calm Mind/Moonlight
Lv. 50 stats 227/81/189/95/150/105
SCIZOR@White Herb ADAMANT
Technician
X-Scissor/Superpower/Bullet Punch/Swords Dance
Lv. 50 stats 164/200/120/67/113/85
currently paused at 22 wins
update: paused at 49 wins
EDIT: Lost at 53. DD Gyarados overwhelmed me. Switched out Chomp too early and my attack initiative was a bit late. I’ll have another run to report about later and this time I’ll try and provide a few battle tales
EDIT: currently at 49 wins again. The AI really threw everything it had at me this time it was surprising I made it through 35-42. Had to stall out Slowbro’s Surf with Cresselia so I could switch and 2HKO with X-Scissor. Ironically Ingo was my easiest win through the past 14 battles, but then again he always is lol.
EDIT: Playing strategy/tendency has shifted more to a slow, monotonous safety-checking system. Last round of 7 took me a good 90 min.
Current streak: 56
P.S. I now have 701 BP I can do nothing with. Yay.
Basic strategy: Scarfed Chomp is able to OHKO a surprising amounts of pokes. I usually switch if the first opposing poke has a chance of holding a sash, or if their leading with an ice type or ice type user(there are quite a few in the subway so it is very tricky). Bulked water walls such as Walrein, Wailord, etc. and even Milotic usually warrant a switch to Cresselia. Watch out for Vaporeon 3 it can be rather annoying with yawn. Most of the time she has no trouble at all setting up +6 spa, spdf, subsequently sweeping through teams. Scizor can be set up on the occasional switch with chomp, as he draws in ice types. A couple Swords Dances from a max attack-Technician-bullet punch Scizor and the battle is over 85% of the time, barring rogue fire typed speedsters.
Last edited:
Here’s another streak I thought I posted a while back but in actuality neglected to put in on the main thread and rather some group conversation lol
Battle Castle Singles
Team:(Bozo's Castle team)- I studied this
team deeply for quite some time, and eventually came to the conclusion that there isn't any team better equipped for the Castle. Adamant, Scarfed Salamence is a BEAST.
Details:
Salamence@Choice Scarf ADAMANT
IVs:Flawless
EV's:252att,252speed
Moveset: EQ/OUTRAGE/ROCK SLIDE/AA
Milotic@Leftovers BOLD
IVs: Flawless
EVs: 252hp, 252 def
Moveset: SURF/ICE BEAM/TOXIC/RECOVER
Blissey@Leftovers BOLD
IVs: Flawless
EVs: 252hp, 252def
Moveset: STOSS/FLAMETHROWER/SOFTBOILED/
AROMATHERAPY
Streak:90
http://imgur.com/7uaMv6V
Battle Castle Singles
Team:(Bozo's Castle team)- I studied this
team deeply for quite some time, and eventually came to the conclusion that there isn't any team better equipped for the Castle. Adamant, Scarfed Salamence is a BEAST.
Details:
Salamence@Choice Scarf ADAMANT
IVs:Flawless
EV's:252att,252speed
Moveset: EQ/OUTRAGE/ROCK SLIDE/AA
Milotic@Leftovers BOLD
IVs: Flawless
EVs: 252hp, 252 def
Moveset: SURF/ICE BEAM/TOXIC/RECOVER
Blissey@Leftovers BOLD
IVs: Flawless
EVs: 252hp, 252def
Moveset: STOSS/FLAMETHROWER/SOFTBOILED/
AROMATHERAPY
Streak:90
http://imgur.com/7uaMv6V
Thanks!
Little update: I tried two more times, but couldn't reach battle 40. Sloppy play involved, but likely the 91 streak was quite lucky in hindsight.
I have one more idea to try, I don't know if I get to it since it means breeding, but we will see.