some of your situation are similar to the ones I stated, I've already explain most
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Blaziken
- Thread starter manav95
- Start date
some of your situation are similar to the ones I stated, I've already explain most
It dose OHKO without a SD boost.
The thing is. Dragonite can use Extremespeed take out Blaziken, which is almost always more useful than Aqua jet. They both do 80 damage.
We aren't really hung up on that issue, but for reference:
405 Atk LO Extremespeed vs. 302/176 Def: (56.62% - 66.89%)
So Blaziken can get off 2-3 hits assuming it comes in relatively unscathed, one of which would probably be taking DNite down with Stone Edge before succumbing to LO recoil.
405 Atk LO Extremespeed vs. 302/176 Def: (56.62% - 66.89%)
So Blaziken can get off 2-3 hits assuming it comes in relatively unscathed, one of which would probably be taking DNite down with Stone Edge before succumbing to LO recoil.
Blaziken does not get close combat, unless it is new in B/W. If you are worried about ghosts/protect/misses, it has *coughfailcough* sky uppercut, but that 45 base points lost before stab. I'd definatly put blaze kick over fire blast. +2 blaze kick should be enough for skarm or brongzong, and that way you have a more reliable move against neutral targets so you don't have to risk hi jump miss.
However, i really think blaziken is gonna be pretty overated. It will be a nice lategame cleaner, but it doesn't have many resistances or oppurtunities to setup, and priority like breloom's mach punch and azumarill's aqua jet (both of which I predict will be pretty popular) and even scizor's bullet punch put a dent in it, it basically dies if you switch a ghost in on it's main move (or if it misses or the opponet has protect) and unless you wanna waste a moveslot on protect and go for the 50% of a double protect, he's gonna get bulldozed by rain and sandstorm teams which will probably be pretty common.
I did say it is difficult to counter, but still HJkick still can speed you cant deny that and I dont think it can hit ghost type because this was said in smogon ''If Hi Jump Kick misses or the target uses Protect or Detect, the user loses HP equal to 1/2 the damage it would have dealt if it had hit. If Hi Jump Kick targets a Ghost-type Pokémon, the user loses HP equal to 1/2 the damage that would have been dealt had the target not been a Ghost-type. The damage caused by Hi Jump Kick missing is capped at 1/2 the target's max HP. '' http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/hi_jump_kick so it might mean it cant hit ghost type even with aiming mark? and if the target uses protect at the right time its over and not just that bulky nite quagsire(unaware) and bulky gyra still walls it completely and kill it back if it dosent have the right hidden power, aqua jet is its weakness, and this is a high risk high reward move, against a poke with sand veil or snow cloak in hail or sandstorm your HJkick becomes easier to miss and in rain aqua jet deals more damage, there are a lot of counters that we dont know yet, I'm not saying its bad I'm just saying dont get so hyped about it, we still dont know ALL the new moves and abilities, and I think game freak would know better than to give a chicken that has a high attack speed boost and not giving any counters to it.
The potential walls in the first post do nothing to Blaziken, but you completely ignored the fact that we have a billion new defensive ghost types, including one that's ghost/water, not to mention a shitload of Psychic types. Blaziken's going to be tough to beat but your OP is overhyping that Hi Jump Kick by a long shot.
For completion's sake:
372 Atk +2 LO Stone Edge vs. 404/262 Burunkeru (water/ghost): (65.59% - 77.23%)
372 Atk +2 LO Stone Edge vs. 320/427 Desukan (ghost): (50.94% - 60.00%)
266 SpA LO Fire Blast vs. 382/196 Gogguru (ground/ghost): (59.69% - 70.16%)
372 Atk +2 LO Stone Edge vs. 324/306 Shandaraa (fire/ghost): (139.51% - 164.81%)
Those are all of the new ghosts this gen. If Blaze Kick is used in place of Fire Blast:
372 Atk +2 LO Blaze Kick vs. 320/427 Desukan (Ghost): (64.69% - 76.25%)
372 Atk +2 LO Blaze Kick vs. 382/196 Gogguru (Ground/Ghost): (81.68% - 96.07%)
Shandaraa and Burunkeru are obviously irrelevant.
Note that all calculations assumed a max/max defense spread except for Gogguru, who's calculation vs. Fire Blast assumes max/max Sp.D.
Breloom and Dragonite won't be managing too much on it with unboosted priority... around 60%. Decent way to stop a sweep after some residual damage, esp. w/ Sand. Scizor's BP will do less than it does to Infernape, which is about 40%. STAB Aqua Jets from Azumarill, Crawdaunt, and maybe Sharpedo would be the best manner of finishing him, but it can't be denied that those won't be incredibly common. None of those can switch into a boosted HJK either.
Hi Jump Kick is somewhat dangerous as it will probably result in death when it misses, which I would definitely agree is this set's biggest weakness. Still potent though. The best option for use would probably be to remove Ghosts (through Pursuit trapping) before using it so your HJKs won't miss guaranteed if your opponent predicts them.
The walls in the first post can do a lot to Blaziken... Swampert, Suicune, Vaporeon? Surely these don't need explaining. Ghost/Water and Psychic types can be handled by one of this set's coverage moves, Shadow Claw, very easily. The Ghost/Water will probably need investment to survive Stone Edge as well, as it only has 100/70 defenses on the physical side.
Hi Jump Kick is somewhat dangerous as it will probably result in death when it misses, which I would definitely agree is this set's biggest weakness. Still potent though. The best option for use would probably be to remove Ghosts (through Pursuit trapping) before using it so your HJKs won't miss guaranteed if your opponent predicts them.
The walls in the first post can do a lot to Blaziken... Swampert, Suicune, Vaporeon? Surely these don't need explaining. Ghost/Water and Psychic types can be handled by one of this set's coverage moves, Shadow Claw, very easily. The Ghost/Water will probably need investment to survive Stone Edge as well, as it only has 100/70 defenses on the physical side.
Your avatar just reminded me of two pokemon that have been crucial in dealing with Blaziken down in UU:
372 +2 LO HJK vs. 394/350 Slowbro: (48.98% - 57.87%)
372 +2 LO HJK vs. 394/284 Slowking: (60.15% - 71.07%)
Slowbro is actually quite comfortable walling Blaziken; it can put an end to its sweep with a Thunder Wave (allowing it to be used as set up fodder later on in the match), or outright kill it with Surf/Psychic.
What's better is that its new ability, Regeneration, allows it to recover 33% of their HP upon switching out, meaning that Slowbro could literally come out of the encounter having lost a mere 20-30 percent of its health.
372 +2 LO HJK vs. 394/350 Slowbro: (48.98% - 57.87%)
372 +2 LO HJK vs. 394/284 Slowking: (60.15% - 71.07%)
Slowbro is actually quite comfortable walling Blaziken; it can put an end to its sweep with a Thunder Wave (allowing it to be used as set up fodder later on in the match), or outright kill it with Surf/Psychic.
What's better is that its new ability, Regeneration, allows it to recover 33% of their HP upon switching out, meaning that Slowbro could literally come out of the encounter having lost a mere 20-30 percent of its health.
Aye Slowbro eats Fighting-types. He can't switch in, unfortunately, as HJK followed up by Shadow Claw would KO. Well, he could switch in to SD, of course, so I guess that works. Thunder Wave probably wouldn't be safe as he will be outsped by +2 Paralyzed Blaziken, even if it has 0 Speed investment, lol.
Those calcs are correct but did you do any calcs on how much damage they do TO BLAZIKEN after they survive? Did you count how much damage Blaziken might take on the turn of set up? Did you count the damage from entry hazards? Did you put into account that blaziken might get OHKO on the turn of set up or won't have a chance to set up? there are still a lot of things you haven take into account yet, those calcs maybe correct but what we see is how much DAMAGE they would do we didn't take into account about other stuff you get it?
Something we definitely need to consider is that Candleier (my clever name for the ghost fire, get it, he's a candle and a chandelier?) is a 100% counter to this guy and traps and murders/set ups on him. I don't think he'll be too useful in the beginning stages of the metagame unless he's a baton passer.
Blaziken ideally sets up while forcing something out (for example, Skarmory, Forretress, Nuttre). It's a one-turn set-up so it's not really a huge deal. You very rarely bring your set-up sweepers in to set-up on things that can usually OHKO them.
Blaziken takes 12.5% from Stealth Rock. Toxic Spikes will impact its sweep as they do for any other LO sweeper: a lot. But MOST teams just carry SR, and I would theorymon that with Rapid Spinning having increased viability this gen less people will bother with lots of hazards.
Obviously it's not perfect, but it is pretty good.
@Smith: Blaziken with Shadow Claw or Stone Edge for coverage, which seem to be the best two choices, can OHKO Sherandaa.
Lots of people are forgetting about scarf Starmie. Even a Modest Scarf'd Starmie outspeeds +1 Jolly Blaziken. You need to switch very quickly to counter Blaziken now, but there is a window of that you can. And I think if Blaziken proves to be a monster Dragonite will indeed run Aqua Jet to counter him. Plus we aren't even sure yet if Dragonite can't have both Aqua Jet and Extremespeed, are we?
Extremespeed does just as much as Aqua Jet to Blaziken >.> Neither is STABed. SE 40 BP or neutral 80 BP. Doesn't OHKO either way.
Scarf Starmie on the switch is another counter. Maybe the Dark/Dragon would make a good teammate if it ran a mixed set to switch into Starmie's Surf and Pursuit trap. Then bring Blaziken back in when you get the chance with the opponent's check gone. If they're running a scarfed mon to check Blaziken then hopefully they aren't carrying any of the stuff that isn't OHKOed by him.
Scarf Starmie on the switch is another counter. Maybe the Dark/Dragon would make a good teammate if it ran a mixed set to switch into Starmie's Surf and Pursuit trap. Then bring Blaziken back in when you get the chance with the opponent's check gone. If they're running a scarfed mon to check Blaziken then hopefully they aren't carrying any of the stuff that isn't OHKOed by him.
Has it been confirmed that Swimming Goggles gives a +1 speed increase yet?
^If all that stuff were taking into account, calcs would be pointless. "Did you check how much damage Suicune would do to Mence with Ice beam in addition to DD Outrage?"
Yes Blaziken is hurt like any other pokemon, but if its attempting to sweep late game we can assume that the enemies team has been sufficiently weakened. Calcs allow us to find out just how much weakening needs to be done.
Anyway, I'm sure we're pretty clear with what the SD set can do. Does anyone else have suggestions? I was thinking something along these lines could prove effective:
Blaziken@Life Orb
Rash; 44 Atk / 252 SpA / 212 Spe
Speed Boost
Fire Blast
Substitute
Hi Jump Kick
Hidden Power Electric
The EVs are pretty straightforward. Maximum SpA allows Fire Blast and HP Electric to pack the most punch, while 212 speed hits 249 speed (373 after Speed Boost). The remaining 44 attack EVs are used to make HJK stronger.
The transition from Gen 4 to Gen 5 makes Focus Punch no longer available as a TM, which means HJK will have to do. This set is intended to be a strong special attacker capable of bypassing Blissey and punishing its usual switch-ins; it also eases the prediction involved with the last set thanks to Substitute. Some calcs of
287 Atk LO HJK vs
Code:
404/361 Suicune: (35.64% - 42.33%)
404/328 Manaphy: (39.60% - 46.78%)
404/306 Swampert: (42.33% - 50.00%)
448/240 Vaporeon: (48.44% - 57.14%)
394/282 Milotic: (47.21% - 55.58%)
420/368 Hippowdon: (34.29% - 40.24%)349 SpA LO HP Electric vs
Code:
404/266 Suicune: (42.57% - 50.50%)
404/236 Manaphy: (47.52% - 56.44%)
448/226 Vaporeon: (45.09% - 53.12%)
394/286 Milotic: (40.10% - 47.72%)
394/236 Gyarados: (97.46% - 115.74%)
404/246 Burunkeru: (46.04% - 54.46%)
394/196 Slowbro: (58.88% - 69.54%)
394/256 Slowking: (45.69% - 53.81%)349 SpA LO Fire Blast vs
Code:
420/180 Hippowdon: (77.38% - 91.43%)
320/246 Desukan: (74.38% - 88.13%)
324/196 Gogguru: (91.98% - 108.64%)
324/216 Shandaara: (41.67% - 49.07%)
334/262 Skarmory: (133.53% - 158.08%)
338/364 Bronzong: (94.67% - 112.43%)This set is less effective against the bulky waters, but you can see that most of them are 2HKOd by HP Electric after Stealth Rock or a bit of prior damage, which isn't shabby at all (except for Swampert, who I omitted for obvious reasons). The main advantage is the damage output against the ghosts with Fire Blast; even Shandaara can be 2HKOd with rocks. There is also less risk involved with a miss - Blaziken won't kill itself lol. Finally, because Blaziken naturally outpaces most of these walls, it should be left with about 55% after 2 rounds of LO and a Sub, letting it possibly blast something else with Fire Blast/HJK before going down.
EDIT:
Non-scarved Starmie is outpaced after a speed boost, so it stands to reason that +2 Blaziken will outrun +1 Starmie. And if Blaziken is forcing something out, it is already at +2 by the time Starmie comes in (not to mention that 6/0 Starmie is OHKOd by HJK, which is what ScarfMie runs).
EDIT2: Sazando is actually a great teammate for Blaziken, as it is resistant or immune to its most common weaknesses (Water/Ground), while having an additional immunity to Psychic. SDBlaziken, on the other hand, can take Ice and Bug attacks aimed at Sazando while simultaneously getting rid of Steels and Bulky Waters.
If blaziken ever switch to me skarm or forretress I would'nt be switching out I mean if you think properly why would you switch?
First if you switch blaziken might set up if he set up he still kills you later and if he dosent he still kills you, so why not let skarm use whirlwind? If he sets up and you whirlwind he needs to get damage by entry hazards and find a way to set up again, if its forretress I would use explosion since he will die along with me its better than switching it out and letting him set up and kills me later when I switch it back, get what I mean?