Umbreon is great for taking special hits except for Aura Sphere and Focus Blast and has amazing HP. If you can figure out a decent moveset he works pretty nicely.
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Blissey substitutes....
- Thread starter Kabuto Mushi
- Start date
i didnt say nuthin about bastidon. i said gastrodon :[
I have used umbreon as my special wall with some success, umbreon can take one specs draco meteor, but its seriously hurt, but protect and wish can help to recover from the hit, and most pokes dont switch after a meteor trying to kill breon on next hit, and if they dont they will face a protect that will rise umbreons hp to a lvl when he can resist another meteor (leftover recovery)
There is nothing "amazing" about 95 base HP, which pales in comparison to Blissey's 255 and even Snorlax's 160. It has comparatively few walling support moves to work from (Wish, Yawn, and Baton Pass and...?) and no possibility of dealing appreciable damage back unless it hits with STAB and super-effectivity, unlike Blissey, who gets many Special attacks and Calm Mind, Snorlax, who gets Curse and a lot of Attack, Regice, with a decent 100 base Special Attack...
I guess I shouldnt have said amazing, but really is anything comparable to Blissey or Snorlax in regards to HP? 394 HP/394 Sp Def is nothing to laugh at. Not saying he is the best. I was simply posting an alternative and what I said was true. He can take special hits. Calm down.
o, im sorry. LOL. i'm fucking dislexic today.
Yeah, I've had Gastrodon take two Draco Meteors. I don't know if the opponents Salamence was EV'd correctly, but Gastrodon was great aside from random Energy Balls and he still managed to live through one from an Alakazam. Once again, don't know the EVs but seems good to me.
You want reasons for me hating Blissey other than the fact that it is so ridiculously common? Here they come.
I like Pokemon for what it is, a game of battling between a mix of various creatures with different powers. From Dragons to Boxers to Rhinoceri to Spartan Warriors to Toxic Waste to Ghosts. A fat PINK EGG does NOT fit in that picture to me.
Pokes such as Clefable have some magical quality going for them. A fairy, ok, I can live with that y'know.
And I could live with Blissey if it was what it was intended to be - a nurse. Fits in the anime/manga, could fit in the game. But what it is, is the most competant battler there is amongst all those previously named creatures. That kind of saddens me.
And yes, I hate it for its ridiculously unbalanced stats. I would've had less problems with it if you would indeed easily dispatch of it with physical moves, but as it stands now, pokes with a pretty amazing attack stat (Like Granbull, who, despite being UU, has VERY respectable attack) have a hard time getting through it. Granbull doesn't even have a surefire 2HKO against it if its Adamant Max ATK.
The fact that so many special sweepers get neutered by it also ticks me off. Look at the most used pokes. Most of them are physical, Gengar is only there for his unpredictability.
I don't mind OverUsed pokes that much. I'm no fan of most of them, because I like to pick my favorites. My favorites happen to be Low-OUish, High BL-ish pokes. The catagory Gallade/Gardevoir/Kingdra/Houndoom/Ninetales etcetera. But I don't mind using stuff like Metagross, Gliscor or something like that just because they're hefty used.
I play Pokemon for having fun. And I cannot have fun when I use something like Blissey. It just sits there. Same for Cresselia and Skarmory, they don't do much. If a wallish poke can still attack rather well, like Dusknoir or Regice, then I'm inclined to use it. I don't like to end battles with a Cresselia-Blissey showdown. I don't like to be yet another boring player.
Bottom line, I hate Blissey for:
- Being WAY overused
- Being too unbalanced, yet most elitists consider it not uber somehow despite extremely overcentralizing the game
- Being ugly
- Being passive
- Being an unneeded evolution over a pokemon that would've likely been top tier OU already anyway
- Not fitting within its job description of "Nurse"
- People like you vigorously defending it because all you care about is winning rather as having fun.
Lou Cypher said:
I will never use Blissey in DP but you won't see me ranting about that it is WAAAY TOO OVERUSED or "passive" or "ugly" or whatever. Yes, it's a rather uncreative Pokemon, but it's a necessary one. Blissey is not overcentralizing the metagame. Or rather, the metagame wouldn't be any less centralized without Blissey - it would be mostly geared towards Specsmence and stuff really having no counter no.
Then don't use her and stop complaining about people who do. Yes, some people want to win. Hence competitive. As outlined before, what a Pokemon looks like has no relevance at all on your game score. Feel free to play and have fun however you want, but don't complain when people use the best of the best. "Hey, I guess I'll use a less ugly Pokemon in trade for some battling efficiency!!!"
You might be right Mekkah, my post was mainly a vent aimed towards Great Sage and Blissey.
I just hate Blissey. Last time I checked, I'm allowed to do so. And for that reason I posted in this thread. If Great Sage comes and jumps on me, then I feel somewhat obliged to give my full reasons to prove his point moot.
But I disgress. I have my opinion and you have yours - so be it, and I cannot change it. But let us not flame one another for having an opinion.
I just hate Blissey. Last time I checked, I'm allowed to do so. And for that reason I posted in this thread. If Great Sage comes and jumps on me, then I feel somewhat obliged to give my full reasons to prove his point moot.
But I disgress. I have my opinion and you have yours - so be it, and I cannot change it. But let us not flame one another for having an opinion.
Easily done as well. In a sandstorm, there is a 4.25 point bonus to rock pokemon. Considering how easy it is to do, I don't really think making a new chart would be worth it...
Woah. I created a huge anti-blissey rally thread. Oops. >.<
lol
I guess I'll try Togekiss for now... I want to train a "flinchkiss" anyway. Thanks you crazy peoples. :P
lol
I guess I'll try Togekiss for now... I want to train a "flinchkiss" anyway. Thanks you crazy peoples. :P
How would Ludicolo fare? It's got good special defense, resists water, ground, and steel, is neutral to ice, dark, fire, psychic, and electricity, and can either double it's speed or restore HP during rain. It also has leech seed and giga drain as reliable options to restore HP. And with the grass root, more HP is restored.
OK, two arguments (go Blissey!)
A, competitive: How can you "hate Blissey" when it's the best (and cutest, damn you!) special wall? It's extremely silly from a competitive standpoint, if you want to win, use the best.
B, other crap: Blissey is way cuter than a block of ice, a slimy serpent, some worm, and all the others. Blissey is so awesome and cool. Blissey haters need to die.
In my experience, I've either used "subs" and they sucked, or patched up the lack of Blissey with resists. Eh.
A, competitive: How can you "hate Blissey" when it's the best (and cutest, damn you!) special wall? It's extremely silly from a competitive standpoint, if you want to win, use the best.
B, other crap: Blissey is way cuter than a block of ice, a slimy serpent, some worm, and all the others. Blissey is so awesome and cool. Blissey haters need to die.
In my experience, I've either used "subs" and they sucked, or patched up the lack of Blissey with resists. Eh.
God... What's with all the Bliss hate?!
Without Blissey, every team would need a Bronzong or Registeel just to counter Specsmenece and Pz, and we'd all need a Snorelax / Regice just to shut down weaker sp. attackers...
I mean, yes you can make a team without Bliss, in fact, I use one, but you WILL have more issues with special attacks and you will need another way to get around them. (Ie, a calm minder, light screener etc)
Without Bliss, 'Zam, 'Gar, 'Menace and 'Z would just run through teams without specific pokes to counter those 4.
Without Blissey, every team would need a Bronzong or Registeel just to counter Specsmenece and Pz, and we'd all need a Snorelax / Regice just to shut down weaker sp. attackers...
I mean, yes you can make a team without Bliss, in fact, I use one, but you WILL have more issues with special attacks and you will need another way to get around them. (Ie, a calm minder, light screener etc)
Without Bliss, 'Zam, 'Gar, 'Menace and 'Z would just run through teams without specific pokes to counter those 4.
Here's how I see the whole overused arguement.
If you're not going to use blissey because its too good, boring, over used, or whatever that is just fine with me. I couldn't care less why you use it. But what you shouldnt do, is cry when other people use blissey. Like sage has been saying, its the best at what it does so if youre playing to win (this is competitive afterall) then you should use for sure.
Another example, I played competitive counter strike source for about a year and half and I (and my team) was actually very known as a player in that community, which included thousands of new teams every CAL season, and played at a very high level. (certainly more than at this game :p ) There were all kinds of strategies and such employed by teams in scrims and matches that could be considered cheap by some players (things as trite as using the AWP, a 1 hit kill sniper rifle, is enough to piss off casual players in public servers), but nobody complained about them. EVERYONE did them, because this is competitive, and youre playing to WIN.
If you're not going to use blissey because its too good, boring, over used, or whatever that is just fine with me. I couldn't care less why you use it. But what you shouldnt do, is cry when other people use blissey. Like sage has been saying, its the best at what it does so if youre playing to win (this is competitive afterall) then you should use for sure.
Another example, I played competitive counter strike source for about a year and half and I (and my team) was actually very known as a player in that community, which included thousands of new teams every CAL season, and played at a very high level. (certainly more than at this game :p ) There were all kinds of strategies and such employed by teams in scrims and matches that could be considered cheap by some players (things as trite as using the AWP, a 1 hit kill sniper rifle, is enough to piss off casual players in public servers), but nobody complained about them. EVERYONE did them, because this is competitive, and youre playing to WIN.
Nobody has said Slowking? Poor, Slowking...
Well, Blissey is THE best. There isn't a substitute, but you can try. Many options have been presented, you just need to play them to their strengths, and exploit them... Much how Blissey's positives are exploited. Blissey fits on a lot of teams, but a lot of other Special Walls can only work on certain teams, so choose wisely, and build wisely.
Yeah.
Well, Blissey is THE best. There isn't a substitute, but you can try. Many options have been presented, you just need to play them to their strengths, and exploit them... Much how Blissey's positives are exploited. Blissey fits on a lot of teams, but a lot of other Special Walls can only work on certain teams, so choose wisely, and build wisely.
Yeah.
I think you slightly missed my point. I despise Blissey as a Pokemon already. I despise the way its used in competive play too. I dont like facing Cradily either.
As for your unbalanced thing - lets say I try to send in something to set up. Blissey TWaves me and moves on. This means I can only send in GUTS users or Ground types on it. Yeah, thats gonna help much.
Winning isn't fun if all you do is 70 turns hitting passive moves.
As for your unbalanced thing - lets say I try to send in something to set up. Blissey TWaves me and moves on. This means I can only send in GUTS users or Ground types on it. Yeah, thats gonna help much.
Winning isn't fun if all you do is 70 turns hitting passive moves.
When I first saw the title, I thought this was going to be some Blissey moveset using substitute XD
My opinion on this whole arguement... : lol
Blissey haters, you may hate the fact that blissey is used by most everyone, but you cannot question how good it really is.
Blissey supporters, lets not get TOO cocky on how good Blissey is. Many pokemon, even some special ones, can counter it. Yes, it is one of, if not THE best special wall in the game, but several other pokemon can still take its place if neccesary.
If it fits in your team, use it. If type weaknesses or coverage tells you otherwise, well, don't. It is that simple.
On the subject of who can replace blissey, Bronzong with a special defense investment can work very nicely. Cradily is obvious with sandstorm =P
Though not OU, some Grumpig and Hypno do well in the lower tiers.
My opinion on this whole arguement... : lol
Blissey haters, you may hate the fact that blissey is used by most everyone, but you cannot question how good it really is.
Blissey supporters, lets not get TOO cocky on how good Blissey is. Many pokemon, even some special ones, can counter it. Yes, it is one of, if not THE best special wall in the game, but several other pokemon can still take its place if neccesary.
If it fits in your team, use it. If type weaknesses or coverage tells you otherwise, well, don't. It is that simple.
On the subject of who can replace blissey, Bronzong with a special defense investment can work very nicely. Cradily is obvious with sandstorm =P
Though not OU, some Grumpig and Hypno do well in the lower tiers.
Honestly no Pokemon can do what Blissey does. People will always complain about and say "Blissey is too good!" or "You use Blissey because you are uncreative" blah blah blah. Blissey is cheap (no-one can really deny that) but in her unfair way she balances out the metagame. Reigice lacks a recovery move and is weak to SR, Snolax doesn't really have a recoving move and the big special threats can just rip through... I would go as far to say that there are no good substitues to Blissey. I guess the best you could do is a Calm Cresselia or Jirachi if you really "hate" Blissey that much. But if you can't stand that pink blob you might be better off playing UU.
wow, that's pretty much exactly how i feel
How is making almost every special sweeper in the game useless considered "balanced?" That just makes it completely unbalanced.
Ahem. As the publisher of the Stallrein set, I would disagree :-) The ultimate stall win is when you've done literally nothing for 20 turns.
As far as T-Wave, then use taunt, substitute or a Lum Berry. Swellow and Ursaring with Toxic Orb can switch in freely, as well as Hitmonlee and Persian. If you're looking for more... typical... pokemon, Dugtrio and Garchomp both love the free switch into a T-Wave, Bronzong becomes more powerful with Gyro Ball and finally, T-Wave is virtually worthless if you run toxic spikes.
*Looks at Starmie, Magnezone, MixApe, Specsmence, ChainChomp, Gengar, Heatran, Togekiss, Azelf...* Wow, they're so useless >_>
