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Braviary

Unfortunatally what really sets this thing down a peg (Which sux cause it looks so badass) is the lack or roost. Unlike Staraptor which'll die fast, Wargle has decent survivability however with a lack of a recovery move it probably won't be seen very much. (Which really does suck cause I mean........ LOOK AT THE THING!!!! IT'S SO BADASS!!!!)

Edit: I really hope that when the next game come's out and move touters hopefully take the stand, roost will be a move tutor option. That'll make wargle much better.
 
Both Wargle & Staraptor will be at, well, war, for title of "Normal/Flyer That Can Actually Hold Its Own In Higher Tiers" for quite some time, I predict. Personally, I like this guy better, and will be one of the major reasons I get White Version. An Attack stat equal to E-Vire's, the most bulk yet seen in a Normal/Flyer, two nifty stat-uppers in Bulk Up & Claw Sharpen, access to Rock Slide, Shadow Claw, Superpower, Crush Claw, and Thrash, in addition to the standard Normal/Flyer movepool.............

Just one thing sucks about it: All that awesome bulk, but no Roost? Really, GF? That's a load of crap.
 
Only if this thing could have Brave Bird without no recoil and superpower without any stat drops. btw is this confirmed? i looked throught the posts and there is not a definite consensus to this. It is a shame that it gets 0 egg moves and makes me sad to think that such a cool looking pokemon to just be another Normal/Flying. It will probs be in BL alongside Staraptor as the Normal/flyings who dared to dream.

Unless of course the stat drops of superpower and recoil of bravebird are negated.
 
Epic Cherubi said:
Competitive Spirit raises your Attack +2 after it drops once. So using Superpower leaves you with +1 Attack / -1 Defense.
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Im curious why no one has noticed this. Is it wrong?

Because if its accurate, there is a serious possibility of a tail wind sweeper. Something like...

Wargle @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Competitive Spirit
Jolly Nature, EVs 252 ATK/252 Speed
-Tailwind
-Return
-Brave Bird
-Superpower

After a tail wind, all you need is a chance to superpower something. Pair it with a pursuit user to catch ghosts and something to switch to that might enjoy a tail wind boost (preferabily one that could also take priority moves that could stop your sweep). Tail wind apparently lasts 4 turns in Gen V, so unless I am misunderstanding how the move works, you could set up tail wind, and attack with superpower. If it hits, your golden with a power boost. If it doesn't, then you can swap out to something that needs a speed boost and try to sweep that way.
 
Golem Rising said:
Im curious why no one has noticed this. Is it wrong?

Because if its accurate, there is a serious possibility of a tail wind sweeper. Something like...

Wargle @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Competitive Spirit
Jolly Nature, EVs 252 ATK/252 Speed
-Tailwind
-Return
-Brave Bird
-Superpower

After a tail wind, all you need is a chance to superpower something. Pair it with a pursuit user to catch ghosts and something to switch to that might enjoy a tail wind boost (preferabily one that could also take priority moves that could stop your sweep). Tail wind apparently lasts 4 turns in Gen V, so unless I am misunderstanding how the move works, you could set up tail wind, and attack with superpower. If it hits, your golden with a power boost. If it doesn't, then you can swap out to something that needs a speed boost and try to sweep that way.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is wrong. According to the research thread competitive spirit does not work on self inflicted stat drops.
 
@GLS
That really stinks.

This guy is one of the coolest new ones, but I can't see much for him in competitive battling, especially with Staraptor being so good.
 
Lol him not being a speedy Eagle is hilarious to me. At least he looks cool.

I also find it peculiar that any bird could ever get Close Combat but maybe I'm missing what it would look like in animation.
 
IMHO, Staraptor and Wargle face a kind of Salamence and Dragonite situation. The former is faster, live-hard-die-young type sweeper, the latter is less specialized, still powerful, and has better survivability. So long as they play different roles, they don't really outclass eachother and simply provide different alternatives on the same typing. Just because the faster suicide bomber may be favored, the bulkier powerhouse is by no means a bad 'mon and remains a viable alternative.
TL;DR - Wargle plays a somewhat different game from Staraptor and still has plenty going for him in spite of initial disappointments like no egg moves and non-haxx Encourage.
 
WingedKnight said:
IMHO, Wargle and Staraptor face a kind of Salamence and Dragonite situation. The former is faster, live-hard-die-young type sweeper, the latter is less specialized, still powerful, and has better survivability. So long as they play different roles, they don't really outclass eachother and simply provide different alternatives on the same typing. Just because the faster suicide bomber may be favored, the bulkier powerhouse is by no means a bad 'mon and remains a viable alternative.
TL;DR - Wargle plays a somewhat different game from Staraptor and still has plenty going for him in spite of initial disappointments like no egg moves and non-haxx Encourage.
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That's all valid, but wouldn't it be the other way around? Staraptor's the faster, more fragile one.

I'm disappointed that Wargle's not that great competitively, considering how awesome his design is haha.
 
I hate that he got robbed of a good speed stat. His Atk stat is marvelous and his 100/75/75 defense set is not bad either. Looking at a few articles from a while back, this guy kind of, and I mean kind of, reminds me of Heracross. Heracross has an amazing attack stat, but is hindered by his speed, though it is rectified by use of the choice scarf. I'm not saying it completely makes up for it, but it doesn't mean he has no chance of being competitive, right?
 
Wargle seems like a great Pokemon, despite the disappointments.

@Leftovers
Encourage
-Claw Sharpen / Bulk Up
-Return / Brave Bird
-Superpower
-Shadow Claw (Encourage boosted!)

@Choice Scarf / Choice Band
Encourage
-Return
-Brave Bird
-Shadow Claw
-Superpower

Rock Slide gets a power boost.
EDIT: Shadow Claw doesn't get a boost. :,(
 
Arcticblast said:
Shadow Claw doesn't get a boost. :,(
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Really? You'd think it would. Are you sure? It'd be cool to get a boosted ghost move at least.

I'm interested in Wargle as a whole because I want a good Normal/Flying. However, the metagame for generation IV was a fast and offensive one. If this trend continues, Staraptor will still be better with Close Combat, Roost, and better speed.

Sucks though, I think Wargle had potential :/
 
I think Competitive Spirit will be the way to go for non-Rock Slide carrying sets, as it's hard to justify using a lot of the Encourage boosted moves (shame that it's 1.3x instead of 1.5x, Crush Claw would've been stronger than Return).

I think Wargle's going to depend a lot on a 3rd-game move tutor, it's by no means a bad Pokemon, but it's definitely going to have to need support.
 
I'm going to agree with Pentao on that Wargle does need help from a 3rd game move tutor. For all we know it could get access to a plethora of moves to abuse encourage. Then again, the opposite could be true. Cross your fingers!!!
 
If encourage negated ALL secondary effects, it could have used STAB Giga Impact, STAB Brave Bird, and Superpower, and Bulk Up for some nice sweet overkill. Too bad Gamefreak trolled us hard with Encourage.
 
Pentao said:
I think Competitive Spirit will be the way to go for non-Rock Slide carrying sets, as it's hard to justify using a lot of the Encourage boosted moves (shame that it's 1.3x instead of 1.5x, Crush Claw would've been stronger than Return).

I think Wargle's going to depend a lot on a 3rd-game move tutor, it's by no means a bad Pokemon, but it's definitely going to have to need support.
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Cannot disagree. Wargle was severely trolled by GF. A great ability, but almost nothing to abuse it (still wanting to know if Pluck recieve Encourage boost even without a berry). I hope that Pokémon Kyuremu Version bring a(some) move(s) that can be paired well with Encourage. If not, this thing may end up like Pinsir and others: Strong, but outclassed.
 
Citizen said:
I'm disappointed that Wargle's not that great competitively, considering how awesome his design is haha.
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I dunno, its speed stat is a shame but at least its not down right slow since it does look pretty huge. What surprised me was how versatile it is and as WingedKnight said earlier its like Salamence and Dragonite, one its just all out and extremely hard and the other is a specialist with a wide variety of tools handy. I love how this thing can buff itself, I was all like "America! Fuck yeah!".
 
I don't think Wargle's speed will be an insurmountable issue, but it does hurt. Like everyone has said, he is still a solid Pokemon with a lot of great tools. Of course we'll hope that he picks up useful new ones in the third version through tutoring (or moveset retcon, ExtremeSpeed please!), but for the time being we can manage. I think the best route for Wargle is to focus on what makes him different so your not using a slower 'Raptor. Namely: Natural bulk, Claw Sharpen/Bulk Up, Encourage Rock Slide. Because of this, Brave Bird is kind of a no-no because it compromises his survivability. Shame Freefall or Pluck or something doesn't get a boost, and that the Encourage boost isn't 1.5, which would make Crush Claw the move of choice. All of this taken into account, I think hes best off like so:

Wargle @ Leftovers
252 Speed / 252 Attack / 4 HP (feel free to get creative here!)
Jolly/Adament Nature
-Bulk Up/Claw Sharpen
-Return
-Rock Slide
-Superpower
 
I think a set with thrash could work seeing as it doesn't lock Wargle into it(thanks to encourage) Also, superpower doesn't lower stats with Encourage, I have White, caught a Wargle, taught it superpower, and it doesn't lower my attack and defense. However, Brave Bird still has recoil (unluckily)
 
hairyforcekin said:
I think a set with thrash could work seeing as it doesn't lock Wargle into it(thanks to encourage) Also, superpower doesn't lower stats with Encourage, I have White, caught a Wargle, taught it superpower, and it doesn't lower my attack and defense. However, Brave Bird still has recoil (unluckily)
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Pretty sure we need confirmation on this.
 
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