I honestly don't see why you would think that this is the best sweeper out there. I do state all of its weaknesses, and I don't say that it's amazing with team support, although I do say it helps Breloom excel, because it really does. And I have had the Stone Edge / Seed Bomb debate many times, and I found Seed Bomb too lack luster. Everything and their brother resists Grass + Fighting, but just change one move and Breloom has incredible coverage. SD Breloom isn't a Spore user with priority, shitty coverage and crappy bulk, and if you think so you're playing him incorrectly.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2024 Smog Awards!
Breloom (Swords Dance) [QC 1/3]
- Thread starter JellyOs
- Start date
EDIT: Took that out, saw the pun, that was actually pretty decent lol
It's bulk lets it take a CB Bullet Punch from Scizor. Sure you'll die after, but you got the KO. And that non-STABed Stone Egde OHKO's Nite though Multiscale at +2. IT's much better coverage than Grass + Fighting, and is only slightly less powerful but hits a lot more neutrally and super effectively.
It's bulk lets it take a CB Bullet Punch from Scizor. Sure you'll die after, but you got the KO. And that non-STABed Stone Egde OHKO's Nite though Multiscale at +2. IT's much better coverage than Grass + Fighting, and is only slightly less powerful but hits a lot more neutrally and super effectively.
Dragonite, Salamence, Zapdos, Volcarona, Gengar and Chandelure resist Grass / Fighting as well. You can effectively say that Skarmory, Jirachi, Metagross and Bronzong resists as well, since Mach Punch is ridiculously weak.
Jelly, I agree that SD Breloom is a brutal monster, but I feel like we're better off waiting to do this set because the advent of Technician is going to require a rewrite anyway.
I'll add more to this thought when I get back from work at around 9:15 pm CST.
I'll add more to this thought when I get back from work at around 9:15 pm CST.
Thing is we have no clue when it's coming out, if it ever is. There haven't been any new Dream World releases in a while, so we have no clue. It's like saying "Hey guys, DW Chandelure is amazing so let's not write any new Chandy sets.". An unreleased Pokemon should have no influence on current OU.
o.k I ran some calculations (and this is where I really hope my calcs are wrong buuuut)
When I compared a LO, Adamant, max attack, +2 Breloom's Mach Punch with a LO, CC neutral natured +0 Virizion... Virizion's Close Combat still does more... by a fairly decent amount.
Assuming I didn't fuck up, can someone tell me why I would use this over Virizion which is faster, has better bulk AND can have better coverage (since it can run 3 attacks). Don't say "Spore" because I just proved that even with the free turn provided by Spore, Virizion still has greater initial power. Unless I can be convinced that this has use over SD Virizion, I will reject this.
When I compared a LO, Adamant, max attack, +2 Breloom's Mach Punch with a LO, CC neutral natured +0 Virizion... Virizion's Close Combat still does more... by a fairly decent amount.
Assuming I didn't fuck up, can someone tell me why I would use this over Virizion which is faster, has better bulk AND can have better coverage (since it can run 3 attacks). Don't say "Spore" because I just proved that even with the free turn provided by Spore, Virizion still has greater initial power. Unless I can be convinced that this has use over SD Virizion, I will reject this.
Well to be honest, the two play quite differently. Virizion doesn't have a good amount of power until boosted. You could say that about Breloom, but look at the Stone Edge calcs. OHKO after Multiscale is pretty big, something Virizion would cry for. Breloom's weakness in that calc is due to priority abuse, the selling point of this set. If you find it underwhelming, use Drain Punch, but Mach Punch is there for a reason. It helps against Scarf Terrakion who come in to revenge, outspeeds Scizor with the opposing priority and KO's, makes you faster than Scarf Rotom-W who want to Trick you and doesn't drop your defenses. In addition, Breloom carries and immunity to both Toxic and Toxic Spikes, two common things on the field; in fact, he greatly benefits from status. After that initial status he can also serve as a sleep absorber. Virizion would kill for these things. What Virizion has is just better speed, lack of priority, and three moves (one being grass-type though). To be honest, if you're not looking for priority though, don't use this set. Most other Breloom / Virizion sets are better but if you want priority abuse, use this.
And yet I proved that Virizion is arguably stronger than your Breloom set
Depending on the Dragonite set, Virizion can KO with HP Ice after SR so your point is moot. After a Swords Dance Virizion can also KO after Multi Scale so idk what your point is.
+2 LO Max attack Adamant Mach Punch: 187-222 (54.51 - 64.72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I could be be wrong here and fucked up my calcs, but I don't think thats KOing. Virizion, on the other hand, 2KOs at +0, or OHKOs at +2.
I think thats overstating things, if I was really worried about Toxic / Toxic Spikes, I would just run Lum SD (which is not uncommon) and also protects against Burn. You on the other hand, don't have a Toxic Orb (unless you drop LO) so its trickier for you to activate your ability, and until you trigger it, you are vulnerable to sleep, burn, and paralysis just like Virizion is (unless it has Lum).
You forgot the fact that Virizion hits a lot harder, has better bulk, and better coverage than Breloom.
Sure, Priority is cool, especially Priority that gets boosted via STAB and SD. However, Mach Punch is just weak, ffs, you need a SD boost to have a shot at OHKOing that Scarf Terrakion that is comming into revenge you. Basically, this Breloom appears to be slightly better against pokemon that outspeed and revenge Virizion (like Scarf Haxorus and Scarf Terrakion) but in the process, loses to a fuckload of things that sit between 71-110 (and highier) base speed while Virizion only really loses out to stuff that sits around 108+ speed, a much smaller group. It also (like I said) hits harder with its STABs than Breloom does and I just think that set is too niche for Breloom to run.
If and when Technician is released, then I won't have a problem accepting this set, however as it stands, it just seems to be outclassed by Virizion
QC Rejected 1/3
Just saying:
The Grass-type move actually makes Virizion a lot more deadly than Breloom will ever be. With an SD up, you OHKO Slowbro and Quagsire, two Pokemon that wall the hell out of the current Breloom (and just Fighting-types in general). It also swats aside all manner of bulky Water-types. Yes, I know Breloom can run Seed Bomb for a Grass STAB, but then you're either giving up Spore (or Stone Edge), which means you have even less of a reason to run Breloom over Virizion.
So yeah, I really can't see anything that this set beats that SD Virizion fails to beat, with the exception of Scarf Terrakion and Choice Scarf Heatran, while as a tradeoff, you're beaten by many, many more things, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Gliscor and Landorus. Like ginga said, Technician Breloom is a whole 'nother animal which I would definitely accept, but right now all this is is just outclassed by Virizion.
QC REJECTED 2/3
The Grass-type move actually makes Virizion a lot more deadly than Breloom will ever be. With an SD up, you OHKO Slowbro and Quagsire, two Pokemon that wall the hell out of the current Breloom (and just Fighting-types in general). It also swats aside all manner of bulky Water-types. Yes, I know Breloom can run Seed Bomb for a Grass STAB, but then you're either giving up Spore (or Stone Edge), which means you have even less of a reason to run Breloom over Virizion.
So yeah, I really can't see anything that this set beats that SD Virizion fails to beat, with the exception of Scarf Terrakion and Choice Scarf Heatran, while as a tradeoff, you're beaten by many, many more things, such as Salamence, Dragonite, Gliscor and Landorus. Like ginga said, Technician Breloom is a whole 'nother animal which I would definitely accept, but right now all this is is just outclassed by Virizion.
QC REJECTED 2/3
The problem with that, is that Dragonite outspeeds and OHKOs you with Outrage, so you lose to it anyway. Defensive sets (eg Rain tank) fail to be OHKOed by Stone Edge and OHKOs you in return with Hurricane or they just Dragon Tail you out. SubDD is unable to OHKO Breloom, but it can easily use Sub to get a Stone Edge miss, then use Roost to stall you out. Breloom is not beating Dragonite.
QC REJECTED 3/3
Used this a lot and had some decent times, but it never proved it was worth more than an OO mention. It beats Glisc and has Spore which is worth something but Celebi also exists and walls it anyway. Stone Edge without STAB is an absolutely terrible primary move, and Mach Punch barely OHKOes Terrakion/Hydreigon with Adamant and Toxic Orb. Life Orb wastes its ability to wall bulky Toed/Jelli and without it you're too weak to run Jolly which would've helped a ton to outrun and beat defensive Glisc. Lastly, there are times facing offensive teams where it does nothing significant at all.
Used this a lot and had some decent times, but it never proved it was worth more than an OO mention. It beats Glisc and has Spore which is worth something but Celebi also exists and walls it anyway. Stone Edge without STAB is an absolutely terrible primary move, and Mach Punch barely OHKOes Terrakion/Hydreigon with Adamant and Toxic Orb. Life Orb wastes its ability to wall bulky Toed/Jelli and without it you're too weak to run Jolly which would've helped a ton to outrun and beat defensive Glisc. Lastly, there are times facing offensive teams where it does nothing significant at all.
