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[a0161613]

Omastar68 the reason for the 4 EVs is purely for economy. You get to increase Attack & Defence by 1 point each rather than boosting the Special Def stat by 1 point with 8 EVs.

 

[NOVED]

I really like Mamoswine as a teammate as well. One of the best things you can use against thund for sure. I think running Rocks on it could be pretty good too, though i would probably not decide on that until after more of the team is chosen.

Not really sold on Heatran personally as i feel like it still loses to some things that threaten mence. Like on paper yeah it resists everything mence is weak to but like the most common dragon is part ground(and the most common dragons often have ground coverage) and a lot of mons that carry ice moves have coverage that hits tran(mamo, greninja, suicune). Yeah its nice for fairies but we could just use ferro for that and actually beat more things i just mentioned that tran loses to.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

What about SubToxic Aegislash as a partner?

Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- King's Shield
- Flash Cannon

Porygon2 and Cresselia still do a solid job of checking Mence, neither of which appreciates Toxic. Aegislash also handles Sylveon, another problem mon for Mence to deal with. Since it runs Flash Cannon, Aegislash would struggle with opposing Aegislash, Talonflame, and Zapdos, which this Salamence set is particularly decent at checking.

 

[ethan06]

ok so the main issues I see with this Salamence set is that it is undersped and KOed by Garchomp, as well as being really weak to Weavile and Mamoswine. These are probably things that could be improved on a little later down the track but I think CB Azumarill would be a cool option to consider, as it beats all three (except maybe Sash Chomp). It can also run Knock Off to chunk Cress and P2 and can be EVd to take Greninja's Gunk Shot (also revenges with Aqua Jet if Gren hasn't just used Scald or Grass Knot). The resistance to Ice and immunity to Fairy are handy too. It does still lose to Thundurus and Gengar so we'd have to take steps towards beating those (a Mamo or Weavile of our own? Some other Ground-type? Aegislash?).

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off

 

[a0161613]

So Ive decided to open the submission stage a little earlier. This will end on Thursday evening, just under 5 days from now.

Go for it!

 

[Xander of Nohr]

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic Stealth Rocks
- Protect

So, given the somewhat defensive nature of this Salamence I think we might as well roll with it all the way and pair it up with one of the sturdiest walls ever. Mence covers all of Ferrothorn's exploitable weaknesses while Ferro patches up most of Mence's, so they make up an rock-solid defensive core. Most notably, Ferrothorn completely undermines any threat that is posed by Mamoswine and most fairy/dragon types alike. I was going to submit an offensive Choice Band set which I think is more fun to use, but I figured that this Salamence specifically would appreciate a defensive partner in crime better.

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

So Ive decided to open the submission stage a little earlier. This will end on Thursday evening, just under 5 days from now.

Go for it!

Just so I make sure I'm fully getting how this type of thread works...Do we just submit and then vote for each Pokemon we plan to use one at a time every several days? Or is this just an active discussion phase?

 

[NOVED]

Ferrothorn (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Gyro Ball
- Toxic
- Protect

So, given the somewhat defensive nature of this Salamence I think we might as well roll with it all the way and pair it up with one of the sturdiest walls ever. Mence covers all of Ferrothorn's exploitable weaknesses while Ferro patches up most of Mence's, so they make up an rock-solid defensive core. Most notably, Ferrothorn completely undermines any threat that is posed by Mamoswine and most fairy/dragon types alike. I was going to submit an offensive Choice Band set which I think is more fun to use, but I figured that this Salamence specifically would appreciate a defensive partner in crime better.

Is there a reason you chose toxic? I really like ferro with mence but i think rocks would compliment it more.

 

[Xander of Nohr]

Is there a reason you chose toxic? I really like ferro with mence but i think rocks would compliment it more.

I chose Toxic so Ferrothorn can actually beat/weaken both Cresselia and Porygon2 if the need to ever presents itself as they cannot cripple it back with anything of significance, but are an obstacle for Salamence. I guess Rocks could be ran over it, but with all the residual damage this Ferrothorn is capable of on its own, I've personally just never felt the need to use it.

 

[NOVED]

I chose Toxic so Ferrothorn can actually beat/weaken both Cresselia and Porygon2 if the need to ever presents itself as they cannot cripple it back with anything of significance, but are an obstacle for Salamence. I guess Rocks could be ran over it, but with all the residual damage this Ferrothorn is capable of on its own, I've personally just never felt the need to use it.

Well like you said they cant do anything back, you dont even really need anything other than leech seed/protect to beat them. Rocks helps a lot with any setup sweeper imo, breaking Sashes and putting things into range. And like you said ferro and mence handle a lot of eachothers checks so the core naturally forces a lot of switching and rocks punishes that well.

 

[Xander of Nohr]

Well like you said they cant do anything back, you dont even really need anything other than leech seed/protect to beat them. Rocks helps a lot with any setup sweeper imo, breaking Sashes and putting things into range. And like you said ferro and mence handle a lot of eachothers checks so the core naturally forces a lot of switching and rocks punishes that well.

Yeah I get it, but with just Leech Seed/Protect it would take soooo long to beat those two, specially Porygon2 that can just spam recover and shrug off the damage. But you do have a point when you say that Toxic is redundant ( I'm aware it is ) while SR adds more utility to it. Well, I don't feel too attached to this moveset anyway, so no objections against changing it. Thanks.

 

[PumpedAaron]

Ollie (Rotom-Heat) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 4 SpA / 20 SpD / 12 Spe
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt/Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Reflect
- Will-O-Wisp

I personally like spare EV's in offense/speed, don't mind fuller bulk investment of course. Can damage a lot of Ice types with Overheat, can burn Garchomp, Mamo and Weavile with Wisp. Can set up reflect to help Salamence Dragon Dance more. Works pretty well with the aforementioned Ferrothorn, too. Gotta hit Sylveon somehow.

 

[ethan06]

Azumarill @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 228 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 12 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Play Rough
- Waterfall
- Aqua Jet
- Knock Off

Imma stick with this. Azumarill beats Weavile, Mamo and Garchomp for Salamence while also providing Knock Off support and smacking things like Hippo and Tyranitar and Shuca/Balloon Heatran really hard. Hard counters Charizard X (Mence deals with Y) and soft checks Mega Altaria. Mence covers Rotom, Serp, Venusaur and some varieties of Gengar. If this is chosen we'd need to look into a solid check for Thundurus and Mega Manectric.

 

[a0161613]

Just so I make sure I'm fully getting how this type of thread works...Do we just submit and then vote for each Pokemon we plan to use one at a time every several days? Or is this just an active discussion phase?

Yeah the general structure will be discussion, submit, vote.

For the most part there's no reason why you can't submit a two or Pokemon core. As an example, right now we're building around Mence. Not necessarily to bring it every time but it won the first vote so I believe the next two picks should attempt to compliment it. Of course Mence may not need so much support & that's going to give us options at Team Preview.

 

[a0161613]

Submission #1 for this round from me.

Hide

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear/Endeavour/Fissure
- Stealth Rock

Thundurus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 180 HP / 44 Def / 4 SpA / 252 SpD / 28 Spe
Calm Nature
- Swagger
- Thunder Wave
- Substitute
- Foul Play/Thunderbolt/Taunt

So Sash Mamoswine and SwagKeyPlay Thundurus; these two can make the holes which Mega Mence can pound through. These particular sets can be tailored in so many different ways, not least to include Rock type coverage on Mamoswine and Volt Switch on Thundy.

As a strategy SwagPlay is devstating. Arguably Klefki would fit well in this slot but I feel that Thundy gives options for alternates when Mence is not brought to the game. Mamoswine benefits from the Sash because as great is Ice for an offensive typing, it's not great defensively. This gives the chance for Rocks to be set up or to KO a potential threat, like Breloom or Garchomp who are often Sashed but detest a multi-hit move like Icicle Spear.

 

[6tennis]

I mean, this Mence sweeps, but it also lures stuff, like bulky Waters. Let's get something in here that appreciates that support.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 20 Atk / 236 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Gunk Shot
- Low Kick

YES I KNOW THIS IS A WEIRD PAIR BUT HEAR ME OUT REAL QUICK. Okay so Greninja is great because it rips holes in an opponent's team, after which Mence can clean up, or vice versa. Also, Mence lures in shit with Ice coverage, like Mixed Blaziken and Suicune. Since these two things in particular (tho there are loads more slightly less relevant ones) beat Gren and normally beat Mence but don't beat this set, we can use the Mence to lure them in, take them out, then let Greninja clean up. There're also a few physical walls that this Mence falls hard to (coughcoughhippocough) that Greninja can beat out.

 

[Omastar68]

Hide

Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
Level: 50
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Protect/Power-Up Punch
- Ice Punch

I don't have a set for Politoed rn since there's a bunch to choose from, but I can explain this Swamp set.

I like running double Megas, and wen doing so both Megas should cover a variety of threats, so you can always bring one of them. I considered other Megas, but Swamp seemed like a fun one that also handles some of what Mence hates, like Mawi, Mamo, Thund without Grass Knot, and Manectric. While Swamp isn't in Mence's top 20 teammates, Mence is #2 for Swamp.

Moves are mostly about what you'd expect from mega Swamp, but I put PuP as an option over Protect since most Cress can do nothing and can thus be set up fodder(even in rain you have a hard time ever breaking Cress,) and it's nice for predicting a switch. Protect also kills off a valuable rain turn, and you'll only really ever get one use of it, to mega, if that. I mean it's still really great so I'm not sure. Sub might be another option for gross status, and I was also thinking about Focus Punch with that, but that probably wouldn't work.

EVs the Spe is for creeping stuff that creeps uninvested Rotoms as a mega, and up to max Scarf base 80s as a mega in rain. Max Atk for fairly obvious reasons, and the rest in HP. Pretty sure moving 8 out of HP for 4 in each defense won't help bulk since Swamp has slightly lower base HP than defenses. I was thinking Damp in case you can predict an Explosion, but Torrent boosted Waterfall from regular Swamp is stronger than mega's. I mean neither would see much use, prolly easier to just go Torrent, really.

Toed doesn't need any explanation with Swamp, as it's pretty much mandatory if you want Swamp. I checked, and max SpA Specs Focus Blast only has a 12.5% to OHKO standard Ferro, but it also might switch in. I can't decide if that's a point in favor of Specs of not. Perish Song is the most common move, and should prolly be on non choice sets. Another tough choice is Eject Button or Damp Rock, since even tho EB means Swamp can abuse the rain immediately without having to switch in to take damage, Damp Rock gives more rain and is therefore perhaps better on offensive Toed since they'll die faster, leaving more rain.

 

[cant say]

While Swamp isn't in Mence's top 20 teammates, Mence is #2 for Swamp.

That's because it's common for people to use the dedicated lead swampert (bold/relaxed holding helmet/sitrus with rocks / yawn / roar / scald) to provide a window for Mence to come in and sweep, very similar to using Hippowdon with Dragonite and Lucario.

That Swampert set actually wouldn't be too bad for this actually. I know GroudonEmpire used it a lot with his Salamence.

Edit: that gives me an idea for my nomination...

Swampert @ Rocky Helmet / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Yawn
- Roar
- Scald

Lead. Gets up rocks and applies pressure with Yawn and Roar, often getting something to sleep which allows (either) Mence (or Raikou) to get in and set up. Pretty straight forward.

Raikou @ Leftovers / Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Substitute / Volt Switch
- Calm Mind / Shadow Ball / Extrasensory

Mandatory Thundurus check. SubCM can take advantage of Swampert's disruption if we can't use Mence for some reason, but Specs is a great wall breaker and pivot into Mence too. This makes a really solid 3-mon core with Mence.

 

[a0161613]

Submission #2

Hide

Whimsicott @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 204 HP / 52 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Encore
- Leech Seed
- Moonblast
- Stun Spore / Substitute / Taunt / Cotton Guard

Heatran @ Choice Specs
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Overheat
- Flash Cannon
- Flamethrower / Earth Power
- Ancient Power / Earth Power

So this core is designed to complete a Dragon Fairy Steel core, designed to cover all weaknesses and exploit type advantages. This also forms two thirds of the old reliable Fire Water Grass core which could be completed later on. Prankster gives great utility (I've slashed Stun Spore first because I feel speed control is going to be crucial) and Specs Heatran has remarkable power (Ancient Power slashed first for bird spam check).

 

[NOVED]

Mamoswine

Mamoswine @ Focus Sash
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock / Knock Off / Fissure
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

Solid thund check. Also deals with some annoying stuff like Sash Garchomp, Mawile, and some Greninjas. It can set rocks too which is always great for a sweep but that could be removed if another mon is added to the team thats better at setting rocks. And normally mence and mamo stack a few counters like rotom-w and cress but this mence set isn't bothered by them as much, especially rotom. Since having both of these baits the opponent to bring Rotom, mence can really take advantage of that to get a Facade boost from burn and probably at least two turns of DD.

 

[Solerme]

My call:


Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ground
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt


eats twaves and synergizes well also thanks to his steel type

 

[a0161613]

OK the submission stage is over for round two. Your picks are:

Numbers(me):
Mamoswine & Thundurus
Whimsicott & Heatran
Xander of Nohr:
Ferrothorn
PumpedAaron:
Rotom-Heat
ethan06:
Azumarill
6tennis:
Greninja
Omastar68:
Mega Swampert & Politoed
cant say:
Support Swampert & Raikou
NOVED:
Mamoswine
Solerme:
Magnezone
CoolStoryBrobat
SubToxic Aegislash

Remember to put your vote in bold. Deadline is on Wednesday evening.

 

[ethan06]

NOVED's Sash Mamoswine

 

[CoolStoryBrobat]

OK the submission stage is over for round two. Your picks are:

Numbers(me):
Mamoswine & Thundurus
Whimsicott & Heatran
Xander of Nohr:
Ferrothorn
PumpedAaron:
Rotom-Heat
ethan06:
Azumarill
6tennis:
Greninja
Omastar68:
Mega Swampert & Politoed
cant say:
Support Swampert & Raikou
NOVED:
Mamoswine
Solerme:
Magnezone

Remember to put your vote in bold.

Hey man what about my Aegislash? :[

 

[Solerme]

going for NOVED's Sash Mamoswine too