max sp.atk+ benefitial nature = 394 sp.atk
no sp.atk no nature + choice speks=442 sp.atk
so it is 12.18% stronger.
as about hidden power ground,sorry I meant ice I will fix it right now.
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no sp.atk no nature + choice speks=442 sp.atk
so it is 12.18% stronger.
as about hidden power ground,sorry I meant ice I will fix it right now.
Skarmory @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 224 HP / 32 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Pursuit
- Spikes
- Whirlwind/Brave Bird
- Roost
With psyspam teams being more prevalent with the decline of HO's usage, I've found pursuit skarmory an excellent addition on psyspam to improve the matchup. Pursuit allows skarm to break alakazam’s focus sash while the special defense allows it to take focus blasts and hp fires. This allows your alakazam to win the 1v1 and potentially preserve its sash if it wins the speed tie. It also helps tyranitar preserve its health for other psychics (i.e reuniclus and latios). If your team is desperate for a breloom check you can replace whirlwind with brave bird, but it makes skarmory worse against set up sweepers.
They took 12 years to ban the gems, what a shocker.
I liked to use them.
They allowed pokemon to have extreme Wallbreaking powers.
I liked to use them.
They allowed pokemon to have extreme Wallbreaking powers.
the reasons why it took them so long to ban them were 2:
-they were overshadowed by other broken mechanics
-also people used them wrong for years(there was the false belief that they only boost the first attack in a multy-strike move,when it was discovered that they boost them all the mistake on the smogon emulator was fixed).
The 50% boost swayed the entire generation only to be Normal Gem left and the boost be nerfed from 50% to 30% in Generation 6 onward.
+2 252+ Atk Normal Gem Lickilicky Explosion vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 382-450 (108.5 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Normal Gem Lickilicky Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 462-545 (114.6 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Normal Gem Lickilicky Explosion vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 378-444 (104.7 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It's like Ferrothorn can be OHKOed by an STAB Normal Gem Explosion at full HP.
+2 252+ Atk Normal Gem Lickilicky Explosion vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 382-450 (108.5 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Normal Gem Lickilicky Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 462-545 (114.6 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Normal Gem Lickilicky Explosion vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 378-444 (104.7 - 122.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It's like Ferrothorn can be OHKOed by an STAB Normal Gem Explosion at full HP.
Bans always look obvious in hindsight.
just because game freak nerfs something for the next generation does not imply we should act on it; Gems were always incredibly potent in Gen 5 VGC but fringe at best for most of OU and so you could argue Gem removal was for the sake of balancing VGC. Much more likely, though, is that Game Freak planned the addition of Z-moves in advance and removed Gems in anticipation of that, much in the same way Hidden Power has been removed and Terra-whatever added for Gen9. We’re not going to ban Hidden Power from Gens 3-7.
gems werent being used in a problematic way until around 18 months ago. They saw fringe use on wallbreakers such as Terrakion and Garchomp but their use on outright endgame sweepers like Cloyster and Volcarona is what led to their consideration. If Cloyster or Volcarona remove their target with a boosted Gem attack after set-up they would very regularly go on to win the game on their own, which is a very different dynamic to the likes of Terrakion. Multiple other factors were important but the reason Gems were so suddenly pushed into the limelight was their increasing use in this application. lets not go back 12 years to bash on the slowness of the Gem ban cos I guarantee if we did it even 5 years ago there’d be uproar about how premature we acted
just because game freak nerfs something for the next generation does not imply we should act on it; Gems were always incredibly potent in Gen 5 VGC but fringe at best for most of OU and so you could argue Gem removal was for the sake of balancing VGC. Much more likely, though, is that Game Freak planned the addition of Z-moves in advance and removed Gems in anticipation of that, much in the same way Hidden Power has been removed and Terra-whatever added for Gen9. We’re not going to ban Hidden Power from Gens 3-7.
gems werent being used in a problematic way until around 18 months ago. They saw fringe use on wallbreakers such as Terrakion and Garchomp but their use on outright endgame sweepers like Cloyster and Volcarona is what led to their consideration. If Cloyster or Volcarona remove their target with a boosted Gem attack after set-up they would very regularly go on to win the game on their own, which is a very different dynamic to the likes of Terrakion. Multiple other factors were important but the reason Gems were so suddenly pushed into the limelight was their increasing use in this application. lets not go back 12 years to bash on the slowness of the Gem ban cos I guarantee if we did it even 5 years ago there’d be uproar about how premature we acted
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What's up weeaboos! It's your boy Samu here to complain about Alakazam, the ultra-cucklord of the Black and White 2 OU Metagame.
Once upon a time, I hated Alakazam a lot. I then started to hate it a little bit less once I started spamming Cloyster and people were bad at building sand teams that didn't lose to it. However now that Gems have been banned and HO teams are less consistent now, as a result it's harder to be able to deal with teams that run Alakazam.
"Hey, just use Tyranitar!" Yeah well Tyranitar has a lot to deal with. King-cuck 2 Latios is arguably just as hard to deal with and Tyranitar is also your best answer there, and forget it if your opponent has Reuniclus, because Tyranitar can only deal with so much. There is no reliable check to Alakazam once it's team starts throwing down spikes, and it's not a secret how annoying it is to spin in this tier, especially if Alakazam takes a KO almost every time you dare to knock out an opposing Pokemon.
I honestly don't see a benefit that a Pokemon like Alakazam brings to the metagame. Trying to teambuild around it significantly limits your options. Rain alone has almost no way to deal with it outside of Scizor, who shit's it's pants every time it sees a water type that isn't a slow Jellicent if it isn't scared, or if it is scarfed has to deal with another host of issues, or Jirachi, who can honestly be a MU fish and still can't reliably take on three Psychics single-handidly in a reliable fashion (although depending on the set this can be more managable). Sand has a few more options to deal with it, but every single Zam answer is so vulnerable to spikes that I wouldn't really say it has any answers. I don't see how it encourages creative play because it's such a linear Pokemon, as switching it in is also nearly impossible with it, so it only comes in after KO's and creates a super punishing atmosphere for taking KO's without having a Pokemon that deals with reliably deals with Alakazam (these basically don't exist). Playing a "which Hidden Power, Ice or Fire, do I have" plays a guessing game almost as bad as one's like "Which Gem does this Cloyster have?" which also wasn't healthy while gems were allowed.
A lot of this is personal bias, but I can't stand this Pokemon being in the tier, he cucks every team I try to build unless I overcorrect for it. This is mainly me ranting, but I feel like complaining about it because it's the source of my frustration with BWOU right now.
(Edit): In case anybody comments about it I'm not suggesting a ban right now. Gems were just banned and simply put there's nowhere near enough support for an Alakazam ban (nor do I have the authority to suggest a ban in the first place). The metagame needs to settle a little bit before a ban even get's discussed, however I am posting this because I don't see how BWOU get's significantly better while this thing is still in the tier. It's way too fast, way too annoying to deal with and has too few reliable answers when you factor in what those other Pokemon have to deal with. I don't think a sudden surge of Metagross or some other answer is going to come along either to save us from the skinny-ass cucklord of a Pokemon. I'm merely voicing my opinion about a Pokemon who I think is incredibly problematic as a whole to the tier (more so then anything else right now) and will prevent the tier from growing in the future.
Once upon a time, I hated Alakazam a lot. I then started to hate it a little bit less once I started spamming Cloyster and people were bad at building sand teams that didn't lose to it. However now that Gems have been banned and HO teams are less consistent now, as a result it's harder to be able to deal with teams that run Alakazam.
"Hey, just use Tyranitar!" Yeah well Tyranitar has a lot to deal with. King-cuck 2 Latios is arguably just as hard to deal with and Tyranitar is also your best answer there, and forget it if your opponent has Reuniclus, because Tyranitar can only deal with so much. There is no reliable check to Alakazam once it's team starts throwing down spikes, and it's not a secret how annoying it is to spin in this tier, especially if Alakazam takes a KO almost every time you dare to knock out an opposing Pokemon.
I honestly don't see a benefit that a Pokemon like Alakazam brings to the metagame. Trying to teambuild around it significantly limits your options. Rain alone has almost no way to deal with it outside of Scizor, who shit's it's pants every time it sees a water type that isn't a slow Jellicent if it isn't scared, or if it is scarfed has to deal with another host of issues, or Jirachi, who can honestly be a MU fish and still can't reliably take on three Psychics single-handidly in a reliable fashion (although depending on the set this can be more managable). Sand has a few more options to deal with it, but every single Zam answer is so vulnerable to spikes that I wouldn't really say it has any answers. I don't see how it encourages creative play because it's such a linear Pokemon, as switching it in is also nearly impossible with it, so it only comes in after KO's and creates a super punishing atmosphere for taking KO's without having a Pokemon that deals with reliably deals with Alakazam (these basically don't exist). Playing a "which Hidden Power, Ice or Fire, do I have" plays a guessing game almost as bad as one's like "Which Gem does this Cloyster have?" which also wasn't healthy while gems were allowed.
A lot of this is personal bias, but I can't stand this Pokemon being in the tier, he cucks every team I try to build unless I overcorrect for it. This is mainly me ranting, but I feel like complaining about it because it's the source of my frustration with BWOU right now.
(Edit): In case anybody comments about it I'm not suggesting a ban right now. Gems were just banned and simply put there's nowhere near enough support for an Alakazam ban (nor do I have the authority to suggest a ban in the first place). The metagame needs to settle a little bit before a ban even get's discussed, however I am posting this because I don't see how BWOU get's significantly better while this thing is still in the tier. It's way too fast, way too annoying to deal with and has too few reliable answers when you factor in what those other Pokemon have to deal with. I don't think a sudden surge of Metagross or some other answer is going to come along either to save us from the skinny-ass cucklord of a Pokemon. I'm merely voicing my opinion about a Pokemon who I think is incredibly problematic as a whole to the tier (more so then anything else right now) and will prevent the tier from growing in the future.
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In pure BW OU fashion, it is an arguably broken mon that isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Join the club
Hey, it's me! I'm going to complain about a pokemon I would argue is even more of a cucklord in the BW OU Metagame, Reuniclus! This gummy bear jelly baby... thing... is able to completely take over games with only a bit of chip on the opponent's pokemon (most commonly achieved through hazards namely spikes as well as the sand and hail teams it features on) with just one moveset, tech not even needed: calm mind, recover, psychic/psyshock, and focus miss. And as an additional note, pretty much everything I talk about in this post (and the follow up one I made after the fact) is focusing on physically defensive calm mind Reuniclus, as shown below, not any other set.
:bw/reuniclus:
Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psychic/Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Recover
Part 1: How it in itself is very difficult to consistently hold back
This pokemon is able to sponge practically any physical attack, even the absolute strongest one that will at least semi-regularly appear: It will always live Choice Banded Kyurem-Black's Outrage from full, which is a 120 base power move with STAB coming off a base 170 attack stat and an adamant nature that gets a 50% boost on top of that.
Very few physical attacks can actually damage reun as much as this, meaning it will have plenty of time to completely shrug off any damage with recover. Furthermore, thanks to broken magic guard, just like alakazam, it takes no passive damage whatsoever, whether it be toxic, burn, sand, hail, hazards, contact punishing, etc., making it even more difficult to kill. Hell, it absolutely LOVES using these things to its advantage, as if it gets burned or poisoned it will be completely immune to thunder wave or the odd freeze meaning it will no longer have turns potentially wasted, and it can abuse the same hail and sand to chip the opponent, have its teammates' hazards chip the opponent, etc, even to the point where a decently common alternative item on this set is rocky helmet, for all the aforementioned reasons. This is even to the point where some teams deliberately go out of their way to run worry seed on ferrothorn (and very very rarely pheal loom) just to kill reun after it's been hit by a toxic, which means they can no longer run a more consistently useful move like gyro ball, stealth rocks, or thunder wave.
Part 2: How it exacerbates its teammates
I'm sure as many, many people know, the strongest and most consistent teams in BW OU have been (and for quite a long time) sand balance, often featuring reuniclus, as well as pokemon that very often choose to make its acquaintance, such as alakzam, latios, ferrothorn, skarmory, gliscor, and landorus-therian. Not only can reuniclus itself boost up and attack the opponent and heal off hits and just in general be a nuisance that gathers chip, but the chip that reuniclus gathers by doing what it does is massively important for teammates such as latios and alakazam (the most notable ones). The biggest example I have of this is Tyranitar and how reuniclus affects its EV spread. But first, we have to look at alakazam and more important latios. As Samu77 mentioned in his alakazam section, one counterpoint to alakazam being "dumb" or "broken" or whatever is Tyranitar, and he disputes that by mentioning Tyranitar already has its hands full dealing with latios and shutting down rain (as well as reuniclus but we'll get to that in a moment). Very often, this heavy chip latios gathers on tyranitar by having spikes and rocks up and hitting it hard with surf or draco meteor potentially boosted by a calm mind or choice specs will result in it dropping to very low health, usually enough for alakazam to put it down the next time Tyranitar comes in to try and stop its shenanigans. Alternatively, hazards will be stacked and then zam comes in to kill something and then when Tyranitar comes in to kill it, Alakazam will just focus blast Tyranitar and after the chople berry it carries a vast majority of the time, it will be in range of dying to hazards the next time it wants to come in and stop rain or launch an attack. Both of these scenarios Reuniclus can exploit excellently, as it will start boosting up with calm mind, become unkillable, and win the game from there. But what if Tyranitar manages to stay alive or even decently healthy to deal with Reun? This is where I can bring up the EV spread altering I talked about briefly. Tyranitar would love, and I mean LOVE to be able to run max special defense with a careful nature so it can better deal with latios while more consistently dodging death from Zam's focus blast after a chople. However, Max Sp. Def Tar fails to consistenly 2hko reuniclus after leftovers, in fact only a 4.7% chance with 8 attack evs. This means that Tyranitar has to pick a side, fail to kill Reun or fail to live both two Latios draco meteors and an Alakazam focus blast after rocks, and very often it chooses the former because of how common it is for reun to threaten a game-ending sweep, meaning that not only does it have to give up 80 special defense evs but also run an attack boosting nature instead of a special defense boosting nature. This goes full circle, as now without the max sp. def it would love to have it's so much harder for it to stave off latios and alakazam, thus resulting in overall profit for the reuniclus user. Of course, this fails to mention that many teams nowadays that stack multiple of the psychic types only choose to use 2 in order to not swing too hard left or right on the rock-paper-scissors dynamic that emblemizes the tier. But even without alakazam or latios (more commonly choosing to pair with only the former rather than only the latter), these teams (for example the very common Tar Skarm Gastro Gliscor Reun Zam 6) can very easily force chip on and blow past Tar.
Part 3: The Game We Play
Now, we finally get to the matchup mock. Something I'm sure is very well known in BW is how team preview frequently gives one player an advantageous situation over the other in BW OU, often referred to as the rock-paper-scissors dynamic because the 3 most prominent team styles in the tier are weatherless, sand, and rain, which ignoring in-game play will determine who loses or wins in that order (wless > sand, sand > rain, rain >wless as it goes), nearly identical to, well, rock-paper-scissors (as I'm sure I've said enough already). Of course, this only scratches the surface, but it is not rare in any capacity for it to hold true purely going off of win and loss results. And reuniclus is a very notable factor in the outcome of something as old as Politoed having drizzle: the sand versus rain matchup. Quite a decent amount of the times this matchup plays out and the sand team is featuring a reuniclus, after one calm mind the rain team will no longer be able to break through it and will have to resort to using things like encore (or the very rare perish song) from politoed, trick (and the less often seen but still good roar) from latios, scizor (whether scarf or swords dance life orb), jirachi (usually sub calm mind or the specially defensive with iron head that doesn't show up often on rain) and the above-stated worry seed with reun already badly poisoned, which is even less common on rain ferrothorn than on sand due to it very commonly running stealth rock so that you aren't forced to run rocks chomp or the (honestly bad) rocks mamo, neither of which is necessarily harmful but regardless rain would appreciate not being forced to use these pokemon to have stealth rock up, and it does. Having there only be 5 options of counterplay on rain for reuniclus doesn't seem that bad at first, but all of these can be played around through switching or gathering chip damage through spikes, stealth rock, and sand. And like I said, once Reuniclus gets a calm mind, it is often a game ender against rain as every of the relatively few options of counterplay that commonly appear on the team style can be outlasted or switched out of, only for Reun to come in again and dominate.
Last thing I wanted to mention before my overall thoughts, this doesn't particularly go in any of the three sections I separated this into, but 2 times previous throughout BW OU's lifetime there has been a large clamor to ban or nerf reuniclus, neither of which ended up removing it from the tier but the second of which resulted in Excadrill's freedom. While yes these metagames were very different I still think it's a good testament to the broken-ness of this pokemon.
Part 4: Conclusion
What I think of Reuniclus in modern day BW OU: I don't like it that much. Often times it feels unfair to face and difficult to beat, while being not too difficult to use and win games with, and I would not mind at all if it was banned. However, just as Samu77 said, it is not my place to comment on Reuniclus and decide its status, nor should I as I am not the best player ever, I probably got one or two things wrong, and I am not in any sort of leadership place on the tiering council and such. However, what I can confidently say is this: Reuniclus is a great pokemon and super strong in modern day BW OU, and this is only with the calm mind set that only has to choose between psychic and psyshock as well as leftovers and maybe rocky helmet, completely neglecting that the offensive trick room set and the 3 attacks life orb set with hidden power ice exist.
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Wanted to make a follow up post to address a couple things I didn't mention: Some more pokemon that can beat Reuniclus besides the examples I stated that show up on rain, which to quickly recap includes scarf/sd life orb scizor, sub cm or iron head + body slam/thunder jirachi, encore/perish song politoed, trick/roar latios, worry seed ferrothorn, as well as something else that rarely shows up on rain but I felt was important to mention anyway for obvious reasons: Tyranitar.
:bw/reuniclus:
Volcarona
:bw/volcarona:
This pokemon can very easily come in on reuniclus after a ko and one shot it if it hasn't clicked calm mind yet or click quiver dance and THEN kill it, either way it can pretty easily take advantage.
Dragonite
:bw/dragonite:
While Reuniclus can tank even a +1 outrage from this, it cannot switch in, and with the standard calm mind set that I focused most of my post around, it will fail to do too much damage, especially if sand and rocks are not up (whether it being abomasnow on the opposing team, zone using sunny day, tyranitar not having come in yet, starmie clicking rapid spin, etc), resulting in free turns for dragonite and its multiscale to maybe even dragon dance a second time and wreck shop.
Cloyster
:bw/cloyster:
This pokemon is exceedingly frail on the special side, meaning it cannot freely set up in front of reun, and Reuniclus can tank a +2 adamant (the only nature cloy should run) never-melt ice boosted icicle spear, but if running psyshock over psychic reun cannot KO cloyster back even at -1 defense and instead has to hit a risky focus blast. However if running psychic, it will always KO cloyster, especially at -1 special defense from the shell smash. At the same time, with only ~10% of chip damage, cloyster will break through reuniclus.
Breloom
:bw/breloom:
Under most circumstances, breloom would not be able to bust through reuniclus. However, reuniclus cannot consistently switch into breloom because it can click bulllet seed and high roll, and if packing a life orb and having used swords dance then breloom will be able to kill reun with only 3 hits and maybe some decent rolls. But obviously, this isn't really reuniclus counterplay, more so something that Reun would normally take advantage of being turned on its head.
Mamoswine
:bw/mamoswine:
This is arguably the shakiest, but it can bust through reuniclus with just one 30% flinch and ~15% of chip (that will be easy to grab) via never-melt ice boosted icicle crash. And if running a different item instead of never-melt ice, life orb earthquake will always 2hko reun with ~10% of chip while icicle crash will 2hko with ~15% of chip or a flinch no matter how much chip, while banded mamoswine will always 2hko reuniclus on the switch with earthquake and with ~10% of chip 2hko with icicle crash (all of this is assuming icicle crash always hits)
Excadrill
:bw/excadrill:
Similar to mamoswine but not quite as good in terms of reun-beating, with the power of iron head and maybe even sand force drill can luck through reun.
Garchomp
:bw/garchomp:
After about ~20% of chip outrage will 2hko, and garchomp can always swords dance up and blow through.
As is pretty obvious most of these pokemon I mentioned that can beat reuniclus are powerful physical attackers (with the except of volcarona) that can either boost up to kill it or luck past it with flinches. The purpose of this it not show that reuniclus is bad (obviously, have you read what I posted both here and in the prior post) but that it is not unbeatable and can be killed, albeit that everything that beats it can be played around/outlasted throughout the course of a game/are reliant on luck to win.
Last thing about these: All the percentages of chip required to kill it with each individual pokemon factor in leftovers, and I did want to emphasize that most things that can rid the world of reuniclus rely on prior chip and/or luck.
Thank you for reading both of my exceedingly long posts ranting about reuniclus in bw ou, and remember:
#BanKyurem-Black
:bw/kyurem-black:
Ironically enough, this is one of the very few positives of having Kyurem-Black legal imo lmao
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My intention wasn't to start a wave people complaining about various Pokemon in the tier (although mass drama is very entertaining to me personally and also may help BKC get those sweet, easy BW videos out for his Youtube channel if we yell loud enough), but I do think we should discuss Pokemon we think are problematic to begin with because anybody who is bothering to write a post like this probably cares somewhat about the metagame. While my previous post was somewhat in jest (I didn't even bother finishing it because my class was starting), I am going to try to make things a bit more civil when discussing a Pokemon I think is unhealthy for the tier, so as we don't repeat the thread from a little while ago.
That said, I find Reuniclus problematic as well, for similar reasons as Alakazam however I don't think it's nowhere near as bad as that thing's influence on the tier. The reason I find Reuniclus less problematic is that there are easier ways to play around it then Alakazam. Anything that threatens to lock it into a move makes it has to run away, anything that is going to put it into easy pursuit range it has to run away from, it's just less immediate then Alakazam is. I think this is actually a case where Reun has the potential to be an actually interesting Pokemon in the metagame as something you have to factor in the teambuilder as something who can run away with a game if not careful, but the problem is that the surrounding metagame of BWOU is honestly just horribly equipped to deal with.
As previously mentioned by both Bee and myself, the problem here lies in that BWOU has no way to deal with an abundance of Psychic-Type threats that doesn't create a major concession in your teambuilder. Tyranitar can't deal with everything, but if it was JUST Reuniclus or JUST Alakazam or just Latios then there honestly might be a valid argument for any of these Pokemon becoming signficantly worse. I know it seems insane to propose that Latios wouldn't be a very good Pokemon if Alakazam and Reuniclus were gone from the tier, but if you want to run sand and have the setter not being a slow, passive hippo, then you are going to be running Tyranitar and it is going to be hard for Latios to get any traction if it's being threatened by pursuit the entire game (although Laitos is still broken as hell so this might not be true). It just shows how unbalanced this dynamic of BWOU is. I focused on Alakazam on my original post because I found it the most restricting in the way how it forces players to play an incredibly annoying game of "how is zam not going to simply revenge kill every time I knock something out while I have spikes dig into all of my Pokemon" and makes games move by too fast to the point the rest of the tier can't keep up. Reuniclus is dumb as hell but this is one Pokemon I actually think if the Metagame was better eqquiped to deal with it that it wouldn't be such a shitty thing to see in team preview when it has the spoonmaster and the blue fighter jet to back it up because it's defensive traits COULD be good to the Metagame, but it's teammates just enable it's traits too much right now for it to be healthy for the metagame.
As a minor nitpick WRT Reuniclus, I think of the two MGuarders it requires more careful play as Rain not to get destroyed by it, but shutting it down is also an infinitely less contrived ordeal. It's a very risky thing for the Sand player ever to click Calm Mind so long as Politoed (which should have Encore) is still alive. This means that there are punishable plays when facing Reuni, but realistically, one can't ever punish an Alakazam that comes in to take a kill as Rain unless they use a lure like Payapa + Icy Wind Keldeo or Chople Ferrothorn (which leads to a situation where Zam fails to come out of the interaction unscathed). Reuniclus is often a sitting duck in front of Rain abusers like Thundurus or Gyarados (though it murders Gyara if packing Thunder itself) or even Keldeo because its Special bulk isn't amazing at +0. It's even PP-stalled by SubTect Tenta in Rain. I think the situations where CM Reuni checkmates Rain exist but require active mismanagement by the Rain player. Winning the weather war alone is often enough to muscle past (or PP Stall) Reuni, and Tyranitar can hardly keep healthy with what Rain throws at it between hazards, Latios, and Thundurus (especially Grass Knot or Sub variants).
WRT to Latios with MGuarders gone, I'd strongly disagree that it would be any worse than it is now. It's by far the least dependent on the presence of fellow Psychics because 140 BP Draco Meteor off base 130 Special Attack and 110 Speed is dumb. Its stats and typing give it hilarious defensive utility that nothing in the tier can match (rains on Keldeo's parade, destroys other Dragons if brought in safely, checks Breloom, can switch into Thundurus at high health roughly 70% of the time). Latios benefits from overloading Tyranitar (see: both Rain and Psyspam Latios lmao), but it's also a deceptively decent partner for fellow Dragon types (who are Physical attackers) because sometimes the way you overload Tyranitar is by putting your opponent in a position where their other 5 Pokemon feel more needed than Tar in the face of Latios's 5 teammates.
WRT to Latios with MGuarders gone, I'd strongly disagree that it would be any worse than it is now. It's by far the least dependent on the presence of fellow Psychics because 140 BP Draco Meteor off base 130 Special Attack and 110 Speed is dumb. Its stats and typing give it hilarious defensive utility that nothing in the tier can match (rains on Keldeo's parade, destroys other Dragons if brought in safely, checks Breloom, can switch into Thundurus at high health roughly 70% of the time). Latios benefits from overloading Tyranitar (see: both Rain and Psyspam Latios lmao), but it's also a deceptively decent partner for fellow Dragon types (who are Physical attackers) because sometimes the way you overload Tyranitar is by putting your opponent in a position where their other 5 Pokemon feel more needed than Tar in the face of Latios's 5 teammates.
good summary of the situation and honestly I agree, reuniclus and alakazam are a LOT worse because of the overall metagame and the fact that they exist together.
Also dw I didn't intend to try and start a complaining war or whatever, I just wanted to talk about reuniclus in-depth because it is pretty similar to alakazam as both a magic guard psychic type that abuses spikes and a pokemon that can completely take over games, and I felt it was important to note just how much of a threat it is.
The problem here with Reuniclus is that Reuniclus is going to have so many opportunities to come onto the field. Yes clicking Calm Mind as Reuniclus isn't a hot idea against a rain team because it's going to get locked in, but simultaneously there really aren't many rain abusers who can reliably check Reuniclus so well in that turn you need to switch out, for reference, Thundurus, which is considered to be the best Rain Abuser in the current metagame, only does THIS to Reuniclus:
252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Thunder vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 162-192 (38.2 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Yes this lacks a boosting nature, but being faster then certain threats like Jirachi or Kyurem Black is also valuable as well, but this just lies in the problem. What if you don't have a way to significantly threaten Reuniclus with your team, what if it's just clicks recover while you are taking chip damage from the hazards that are a bitch to remove when your opponent has multiple Psychics on your team. I would consider this a flaw in teambuilding where you don't have a Reuniclus answer, but it's honestly harder to deal with in practice then it is on paper. Gyarados doesn't hit THAT hard against Reun, and fishing for a Reun not having Thunder, while maybe not completely unrealistic, is still a fish. All of this and we still need to remember we are talking about ONE SET with a fixed spread. While TR Reun isn't exactly something I would call "a problem", it's still a possibility. Thunder is a possibility, HP Ice is a possibility. Reuniclus get's so many opportunities to come onto the field and be dangerous against a rain team because it's one of the few Pokemon in the tier that doesn't care about being burnt at all, while every time you send in a threat it's going to passive damage rubbed into it even if it just clicks Calm Mind or Recover.
I think I may have exaggerated how much worse off I think Latios would be if MGuarders were gone, however I do think it becomes significantly worse. Yes it is still an insane Pokemon, but it's also going to take a LOT of effort from a Latios player to wear down Tyranitar to the point Latios can actually muscle through it. People have already been trying to kill Ttar with Latios for years, so I think that Latios would definitely still be very, very good, but I don't think it will be AS good if it's just automatically dealt with by tar (Ttar would also run a different item if Mguarders were gone, maybe like Pasho or Lum or Leftovers, so this could also make Latios much worse). I just think that pursuit trapping Latios becomes too automatic from Ttar if Magic Guarders are gone.
It's like a rare Choice Specs Kyurem-Black can OHKO Reuniclus with Draco Meteor, but the Normal Kyurem can get the Guranteed OHKO.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Teravolt Kyurem-Black Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 408-480 (96.2 - 113.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Teravolt Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 432-508 (101.8 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Chandelure needs the Life Orb boost to OHKO Reuniclus.
252 SpA Life Orb Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 421-499 (99.2 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
A Choice Band Bug Bite Scizor can OHKO it too, even at Max Defense.
252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 420-494 (99 - 116.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
Hex Spell Tag / Spoky Plate Gengar can also OHKO it but take note it needs some Toxic Spikes support.
252 SpA Spell Tag Gengar Hex (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Reuniclus: 450-530 (106.1 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If Reuniclus decides to stay in against Pursuit Tyranitar, it will just recover off Tyranitar face and OHKO it with a +2 Focus Blast if it is not carrying a Chople Berry.
+2 4 SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 172 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 476-560 (118.1 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 4 SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 48 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 400-472 (117.3 - 138.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
208 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 114-134 (26.8 - 31.6%) -- 25.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
88+ Atk Tyranitar Pursuit (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 116-138 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- 57.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
And this is even worse if Reflect is up, It will take 13.6 - 16.2% (Bulky Pursuit Trapper) or 13.4 - 15.8% (Choice Scarf) from a non switch Pursuit.
+2 4 SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 172 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 476-560 (118.1 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 4 SpA Reuniclus Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 48 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 400-472 (117.3 - 138.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
208 Atk Tyranitar Pursuit (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 114-134 (26.8 - 31.6%) -- 25.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
88+ Atk Tyranitar Pursuit (40 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 116-138 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- 57.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
And this is even worse if Reflect is up, It will take 13.6 - 16.2% (Bulky Pursuit Trapper) or 13.4 - 15.8% (Choice Scarf) from a non switch Pursuit.
I meant a teammate carrying Reflect such as Latias.
And sorry about that. I just wanted so see if it OHKOes or not.
Just wanted to make a quick post about a couple sets I've been having fun with recently, even if they're not particularly all that good or new.
1. Life Orb Agility Thundurus-T
:bw/thundurus-therian:
Thundurus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 104 SpD / 152 Spe OR EVs: 252 SpA / 48 SpD / 208 Spe (depending on if you want it to outspeed kyu-b before agility)
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Agility
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
As obvious by tbolt instead of thunder, I've been running this on HO and it's been pretty fun to use, being able to mow down a lot though admittedly, sadly not picking up a lot of ohkos on neutral targets or latios.
2. Rock Polish Life Orb Terrakion
:bw/terrakion:
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
Very similar to the thundy-t set, being a speed booster with a high attacking prowess further amplified by life orb. Very fun to use just like thundy-t, but with more instant speed. One of the biggest bonuses of this set is being able to run both stone edge and earthquake, unlike the double dance set.
3. Mental Herb Cloyster
:bw/cloyster:
Cloyster @ Mental Herb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin/Rock Blast
You may be wondering. Why mental herb? Well there's two reasons. The first one is lead aerodactyl, and the second one is lead skarmory. Both are common leads for opposing hyper offense, and they both pack a taunt faster than cloyster. Meanwhile, a +2 adamant cloyster is able to ohko both through sash and sturdy respectively. While yes, you can lead cloyster into aero anyway and try and get a 50/50 out of taunt vs rocks, and lead something else into skarm, sometimes you would rather get the smash and not only have an instantly powerful threat but also deny hazards if they do click taunt expecting a smash. The main teams this would feature on are hyper offense teams without a super solid lead into skarmory and aerodactyl, notably teams with a lead skarmory of their own or a lead garchomp.
4. White Herb Superpower Dragonite
:bw/dragonite:
Dragonite @ White Herb
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Superpower
- Extreme Speed
The main purpose of superpower is an attempt to compress the coverage of earthquake and fire punch at once, but with an even stronger move. This sounds excellent on paper, albeit still a little shaky into skarmory, but the obvious drawback is that your stats are dropped by superpower, potentially cutting your sweep. Mental herb is a one time fix to this solution. Sacrificing your item slot is a pretty major downside, as dragonite loves to use it on something like a lum or yache berry, or even leftovers on hail hyper offense teams, however mental herb still does well. Additionally, mental herb also stops a +0 dragonite from dropping into the negative by opposing landorus-t, though sadly it does not prevent a +1 nite from being dropped to +0.
Lastly, I wanted to mention a couple more sets I've been having fun with but aren't necessarily "super different" or too "noteworthy" and whatnot, but I didn't feel were as deserving of a big mention as the 4 I put before. Some of these have been Memento on Calm Mind Latios, Freeze Shock on Choice Band Kyurem-Black, Life Orb as the item of choice on Technician Breloom, OTR Reuniclus, either Superpower or Stealth Rocks on Choice Scarf Landorus-T, and Max Speed Jellicent on Hyper Offense teams with Spikes.
Thank you for listening to my TED talk.
1. Life Orb Agility Thundurus-T
:bw/thundurus-therian:
Thundurus-Therian @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 104 SpD / 152 Spe OR EVs: 252 SpA / 48 SpD / 208 Spe (depending on if you want it to outspeed kyu-b before agility)
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Agility
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
As obvious by tbolt instead of thunder, I've been running this on HO and it's been pretty fun to use, being able to mow down a lot though admittedly, sadly not picking up a lot of ohkos on neutral targets or latios.
2. Rock Polish Life Orb Terrakion
:bw/terrakion:
Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Polish
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
Very similar to the thundy-t set, being a speed booster with a high attacking prowess further amplified by life orb. Very fun to use just like thundy-t, but with more instant speed. One of the biggest bonuses of this set is being able to run both stone edge and earthquake, unlike the double dance set.
3. Mental Herb Cloyster
:bw/cloyster:
Cloyster @ Mental Herb
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Rapid Spin/Rock Blast
You may be wondering. Why mental herb? Well there's two reasons. The first one is lead aerodactyl, and the second one is lead skarmory. Both are common leads for opposing hyper offense, and they both pack a taunt faster than cloyster. Meanwhile, a +2 adamant cloyster is able to ohko both through sash and sturdy respectively. While yes, you can lead cloyster into aero anyway and try and get a 50/50 out of taunt vs rocks, and lead something else into skarm, sometimes you would rather get the smash and not only have an instantly powerful threat but also deny hazards if they do click taunt expecting a smash. The main teams this would feature on are hyper offense teams without a super solid lead into skarmory and aerodactyl, notably teams with a lead skarmory of their own or a lead garchomp.
4. White Herb Superpower Dragonite
:bw/dragonite:
Dragonite @ White Herb
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Superpower
- Extreme Speed
The main purpose of superpower is an attempt to compress the coverage of earthquake and fire punch at once, but with an even stronger move. This sounds excellent on paper, albeit still a little shaky into skarmory, but the obvious drawback is that your stats are dropped by superpower, potentially cutting your sweep. Mental herb is a one time fix to this solution. Sacrificing your item slot is a pretty major downside, as dragonite loves to use it on something like a lum or yache berry, or even leftovers on hail hyper offense teams, however mental herb still does well. Additionally, mental herb also stops a +0 dragonite from dropping into the negative by opposing landorus-t, though sadly it does not prevent a +1 nite from being dropped to +0.
Lastly, I wanted to mention a couple more sets I've been having fun with but aren't necessarily "super different" or too "noteworthy" and whatnot, but I didn't feel were as deserving of a big mention as the 4 I put before. Some of these have been Memento on Calm Mind Latios, Freeze Shock on Choice Band Kyurem-Black, Life Orb as the item of choice on Technician Breloom, OTR Reuniclus, either Superpower or Stealth Rocks on Choice Scarf Landorus-T, and Max Speed Jellicent on Hyper Offense teams with Spikes.
Thank you for listening to my TED talk.
Sacred Sword is weaker than Close Combat, but it has more PP and it has no drawbacks. (it also ignores Defense boosts)
Also, Rock Slide is weaker than Stone Edge and it has slightly more accuracy and PP, it can also flinch which can be somethat situational.
Valid take, but you would absolutely want maximum power, escpecially if you are trying to set up into a sweep. On a side note, terrak isn't meant to take hits, so you don't mind the defense drops from Close Combat. 8 pp is also pretty sufficient in practice on just about any version on terrak that I'm aware of. Rock slide is a viable secondary option to stone edge. As far as I am aware players usually don't run it over Stone edge, but WITH stone edge. The difference in power is far more important when compared to the 10% improvement of accuracy. Being able to hit Lando and Gliscor harder, even if its only 80% of the time (in theory), is basically always worth it. I think the most common set that would prioritze accuracy over power is the scarf version which is very rare. Terrak's main appeal is its powerful Stab's combined with great attack.
yeah scarf terrak can use rock slide as a 3rd/4th move instead of smth like x-scissor, eq, or quick attack to ensure volc gets rk'd and such
Mental Herb Cloyster is misguided
You should never Shell Smash like that on Aerodactyl, you should always click Icicle Spear and take your free Pokemon, most of the time Pokemon like Aero are being paired with Pokemon like Dragonite, so it's not like you are throwing away your Cloyster, a full health Cloy can also deter some of your opponents options as well
:amoonguss:
Amoonguss (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Stun Spore
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Clear Smog
One of Amoonguss' problems is that it is often set up fodder for dangerous threats such as Breloom, Keldeo and Reuniclus. Clear Smog shuts down those opportunities in case they manage to BS the paralysis via Stun Spore. Seems a bit superfluous in practice but at least it halts them from completely tearing through Amoonguss' partners.
Amoonguss (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Stun Spore
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Clear Smog
One of Amoonguss' problems is that it is often set up fodder for dangerous threats such as Breloom, Keldeo and Reuniclus. Clear Smog shuts down those opportunities in case they manage to BS the paralysis via Stun Spore. Seems a bit superfluous in practice but at least it halts them from completely tearing through Amoonguss' partners.
not a huge fan of amoong in general but I think you'd definitely want hp ice to at least pretend to check thundyt instead of being sub fodder