BW2 and U(U)

[mrb]

what counters durant hone claws / SE / Superpower/ X-scissor ?

For that particular set, a tanking Nidoqueen set with Fire Blast or Flamethrower could easily counter it.

Nidoqueen @ Leftovers
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam / Toxic Spikes

 

[Mymble]

^person who plays singles gives real advise.

*i leave now*

 

[dekzeh]

what counters durant hone claws / SE / Superpower/ X-scissor ?

As it was said before, Nidoqueen is a good counter, resisting everything and retaliating with Flamethrower or Earth Power. Now that it can use Stealth Rock with Sheer Force it should be even more popular.

Another potential counter is Golurk, who resists everything there and can Fire Punch for the OHKO or Earthquake for a 2HKO, it has the tools to see more usage with the new move tutors and if Durant rises in usage it is yet another reason to use him.

Qwilfish is already a semi-popular spiker and is a good switch-in into Durant, the most standard set runs Thunder Wave and Taunt/Haze which completely shuts down the ant.

All in all though, Durant never had many solid counters, that was never his problem. It is easily revenge killed by most scarfers (especially if theyre special based), and does not have very much opportunites to set up (of the top of my head the only thing it can set up on is defensive Roserade, or against resisted unstabbed choice'd moves). The difference is now instead of having to worry about Registeel (not popular at all) and Coballion you have to worry about Nidoqueen/king and random stuff such as Golurk.

 

[Chou Toshio]

If you were really desparate... I mean, the thing can't get past stuff like Fire Blast Weezing. Duskclops and Cofag would pretty much stop it dead too.

 

[dekzeh]

Indeed, overlooked Dusclops.

Weezing is much less common then Qwilfish though, so I didn't bother to mention it. Same goes for Cofag, but I guess it might see more use now that it can Restalk.

 

[Chou Toshio]

^yeah, the pokes you pointed out are more main stream. I'm just pointing out that for something like Durant, there's plenty of Pokemon that can deal with it even if it got superpower. Especially if you look in the lower tiers, you'll find even more answers to it.

But really, even Pokemon like Zapdos, Flygon and Rotom-H can check it given the right prediction. Remember that you don't need to be a perfect counter to be a big help dealing with an enemy.

 

[Psychotic]

As we have seen before, a pokemon with no counters is not automatically broken. Dragon Dance Kingdra, for example, is a pokemon with no definitive counters in the UU tier. Even Empoleon takes ~45% from a +1 Outrage and cannot do anything back. But Kingdra's checks prevent it from being broken. All of the bulky waters in the tier can take a boosted hit and phaze Kingdra out. Most scarfers outspeed and KO Kingdra even after a Dragon Dance. Quite a few offensive pokemon are able to take a hit at +1 and KO Kingdra back.

Durant also has very few hard counters, but a ton of checks. First of all, any semi-powerful special attack will DEMOLISH Durant (58HP/48SpD lol). Since its premier boosting move does not boost its speed, it is even more prone to being revenge killed than Kingdra. Bulky Ghosts can Will-O-Wisp it to da face. And again, most bulky waters can take a boosted hit and either hit back hard with Scald or phaze Durant out.

I am not trying to say that Durant is a bad pokemon, just that I do not think it will be broken or centralizing in any way.

I would also like to make a point that if you build a team to counter every threat in the tier, it will often have no direction or goal. I have seen a ton of teams built so that everything in UU is covered, but they have no "win condition", something their team can work toward to win the game. These teams are easily worn down, extremely easy to predict against, and they generate no pressure on the opponent. When adding a pokemon to a team you should be thinking "how is this pokemon going to help me win the game ", not "oh no I dont have a dedicated Durant counter I better add Dusclops!!!!".

 

[superbadd]

UU is so much fun now, I love it. Nidoqueen is perfect now, incredibly bulky access to both stealth rock and toxic spikes and can sting with powerful sheer force boosted moves. Flygon getting superpower was a wonderful addition on the CB set allowing it to 2ko porygon2 w/o getting locked into a single move! Life orb Adamant Arcanine w/outrage can now stand up to kingdra nailing it in one shot and to a lesser extent take on bulky evolite dragons.

 

[Skytt]

Imposter Ditto has been confirmed to be in Hidden Hollow. Get ready for the huge usage fluctuations and drop downs...

 

[Z-rex]

I would also like to make a point that if you build a team to counter every threat in the tier, it will often have no direction or goal. I have seen a ton of teams built so that everything in UU is covered, but they have no "win condition"

haha ygo player spotted .

Anyway I just think durant have some great potential , he was always good but now a lot of his checks are gone , so yeah , i think he's gonna be problematic for offensive teams and even stall if it's still played .

 

[kokoloko]

Here is the full list of things that could potentially affect UU, compiled by Bad Romance.

 

[Saria]

I probably missed some shit, because I'm too lazy to check everything.

 

[superbadd]

Outrage arcanine, superpower flygon, foul play umbreon, physical nidoking. ^

 

[Stellar]

Heat Wave + Magic Bounce Xatu is also pretty cool.

 

[Not Jacky]

Outrage arcanine, superpower flygon, foul play umbreon, physical nidoking. ^

Are you sure Flygon is getting Superpower? I don't think he had it in gen 4, where Superpower was a move tutor as well.

Personally, I'm pretty excited for Regenerator + Trick Slowbro, who can fill the role of a bulky water without handing momentum to your opponent.

 

[jamashawalker]

Imposter Ditto has been confirmed to be in Hidden Hollow. Get ready for the huge usage fluctuations and drop downs...

Aww crap...we might as well get all of OU down here now. As soon as ditto is implemented into the gameplay thats gonna rock EVERY TIER!

 

[Ace Emerald]

Are you sure Flygon is getting Superpower? I don't think he had it in gen 4, where Superpower was a move tutor as well.

Personally, I'm pretty excited for Regenerator + Trick Slowbro, who can fill the role of a bulky water without handing momentum to your opponent.

In a movepool change, Trapinch learns Superpower at level 62 or something. That said, what exactly would Superpower do for Flygon? It has STAB Earthquake already... Magnet Rise Cobalion?

 

[alexwolf]

In a movepool change, Trapinch learns Superpower at level 62 or something. That said, what exactly would Superpower do for Flygon? It has STAB Earthquake already... Magnet Rise Cobalion?

Hit Bronzong hard, hit Umbreon hard, hit Snorlax and Porygon2 hard (Superpower is your only chance of 2hkoing Porygon2 i think). It also can hit flying types and still hit steel types, which means that your opponent cannot abuse you quite as much.

It has competition in the last slot with Fire Punch and Dragon Claw, but it has it's uses.

 

[Ace Emerald]

Hit Bronzong hard, hit Umbreon hard, hit Snorlax and Porygon2 hard (Superpower is your only chance of 2hkoing Porygon2 i think). It also can hit flying types and still hit steel types, which means that your opponent cannot abuse you quite as much.

It has competition in the last slot with Fire Punch and Dragon Claw, but it has it's uses.

Using CB Flygon:
Superpower doesn't 2hko Bronzong ever, Fire Punch does.
Superpower never OHKOs Umbreon, and sometimes doesn't even OHKO with rocks, Earthquake and U-turn deal about 50%
Superpower never OHKOs Snorlax, struggles even with rocks, Earthquake still 2HKOs
You are right that Superpower is the only way to 2HKO porygon2, but considering he can blast you with Ice Beam I wouldn't try it.
Using a Scarf, it deals 56%-66%, then 37%-44% to Umbreon and Snorlax (they have near exact same physical bulk), which including lefties and protect is hardpressed to 2HKO Umbreon, and Snorlax has rest and stall your Superpower. Flygon already has 4mss, so many other moves come in line before Superpower that Porygon2 and a chance to OHKO or 2HKO Umbreon and Snorlax (depending on the set) isn't really worth it.

 

[Souuuth]

When does Sheer Force get released on Feraligatr? I'm anxious to try that out. Hopefully it will move him to UU.

 

[NGC-2024]

Will Regen Alomomola get any love? I used it a few times on wifi and stuff and it's a very reliable wish passer. Slowbro kind of outclasses it as a straight up wall due to having an offensive presence. But Slowbro can't wish pass a million times a match. ;)

 

[superbadd]

If you're using flygon to sweep, you're not capitalizing on it's greatest attributes; Scouting and cleaning. The fact that it can 2ko porygon2 w/o getting locked into a move is excellent. I'm pretty sure you've all been at that position were you've desperately wanted to click outrage to finish off a wall but knew a bulky steal or weavile was waiting in the midst to revenge kill you. With superpower you can get the vital KO's on things like snorlax w/o being setup bait as you normally would if you used outrage/earthquake. Steal types and fast scarfers are everywhere. If you use outrage chances are you'll either be walled or revenge killed. If you use earthquake there are an abundance of pokemon who have an immunity to that move and can use flygon to set up. There are no more than about 5-6 viable ghost types in uu as opposed to the numerous earthquake immunity pokes. If anything superpower helps it clean more effectively.

 

[SOMALIA]

Outrage Arcanine is nothing to be psyched about, especially in UU. Why would you even use it when Arcanine gets Close Combat and Wild Charge, heck Life Orb Adamant Arcanine does about 55% with Extremespeed to the only common Dragon in the tier, Flygon. Not to mention Outrage will just lock Arcanine and make it prone to being revenge killed.

Honchrow is gonna pretty amazing this time round, however Bronzong still beats it considering it doesnt run Heat Wave since even if it runs Heat Wave, it has to forgo another essential move with imo isnt worth it.

 

[Ace Emerald]

If you're using flygon to sweep, you're not capitalizing on it's greatest attributes; Scouting and cleaning. The fact that it can 2ko porygon2 w/o getting locked into a move is excellent. I'm pretty sure you've all been at that position were you've desperately wanted to click outrage to finish off a wall but knew a bulky steal or weavile was waiting in the midst to revenge kill you. With superpower you can get the vital KO's on things like snorlax w/o being setup bait as you normally would if you used outrage/earthquake. Steal types and fast scarfers are everywhere. If you use outrage chances are you'll either be walled or revenge killed. If you use earthquake there are an abundance of pokemon who have an immunity to that move and can use flygon to set up. There are no more than about 5-6 viable ghost types in uu as opposed to the numerous earthquake immunity pokes. If anything superpower helps it clean more effectively.

I completely agree with the first part of your post. Flygon is an amazing scouter and cleaner, and although it is by no means the only viable set, there is a reason that Scarf is most common. However, a -1 or -2 non STAB Superpower is about as easy to set up on as an Earthquake immunity. Lets say you catch Snorlax/Umberon on the switch and 2HKO them (the offensive variant of P2 is never 2HKO'd by Scarf Superpower).

-3 Superpower (Intimidate) vs 4/0 Arcanine: 16.5% - 19.6%
-2 Superpower vs 4/0 Azelf: 12.3% - 14.7%
-2 Superpower vs 252/0 Azumarill: 16.3% - 19.3%
-2 Superpower vs 252/252 + Blastoise: 10.8% - 13%
-2 Superpower vs 252/80 Bronzong: 13.3% - 16%
-2 Superpower vs 252/114 + Claydol: 6.5% - 7.7%
-2 Superpower vs 4/0 Cobalion: 24.7% - 29.6%
-2 Superpower vs 4/0 Crobat: 4.8% - 5.4%
-2 Superpower vs 4/0 Darmanitan: 22.7% - 27%
-2 Superpower vs 252/4 Empoleon: 30.1% - 35.5%
-2 Superpower vs 252/0 Bisharp: 59.9% - 70.7%
-1 Superpower vs 252/0 Bisharp: 80.2% - 94.6%

I was going to continue, but I think I made my point. This is a -2 Superpower against frail Pokemon, against defensive Pokemon, against both defensive and frail steels. Bisharp has only 65/100 defensives, is x4 weak, and Flygon can't even reliably OHKO at -1. So even if you do manage to 2HKO Snorlax and Umbreon, which isn't even a sure thing, you become set up bait for literally the entire tier. And thats all assuming Snorlax or Umbreon switched into Flygon, to at least give him the momentum (there are many better switches). If Flygon comes in on Snorlax, hoping to scare him:

Scarfgon Superpower (-0) vs 208/124 Snorlax: 50.7% - 60%
0 attack Snorlax Body Slam vs -1 4/0 Flygon: 59.8% - 70.8%

The Flygon comes out on top, but barely. Assuming he isn't paralyzed, he is at low health, at -2, and probably as good as dead.

Senario against Umbreon:

Umbreon comes in on SR: 88% health.
Flygon superpowrs for a max of 60%, Umberon is at 28%.
Lefties brings to 34%
Umberon protects, 40%
Superpower only hits 40% at max damage again, which isn't likely, so Umbreon is at low health and Wishes. Protects and is at about 60% again.

It's cool, sure. But I don't think very useful.

Edit: On a completely different note

Will Regen Alomomola get any love? I used it a few times on wifi and stuff and it's a very reliable wish passer. Slowbro kind of outclasses it as a straight up wall due to having an offensive presence. But Slowbro can't wish pass a million times a match. ;)

Just saw this. Hmmm after a few calcs it seems like Alomomola is bulkier on both sides. Loss of offensive presence is rough, but Wish Passing 267 HP is amazing. Soak can potentially ruin an attacker's STAB, which could really change damage output, and it opens defensive mons up to Toxic if they are immune. Regenerator means it doesn't even have to Wish + Protect, it can just Wish and switch. It looks like a really killer supporter to me.

 

[Not Jacky]

Just saw this. Hmmm after a few calcs it seems like Alomomola is bulkier on both sides. Loss of offensive presence is rough, but Wish Passing 267 HP is amazing. Soak can potentially ruin an attacker's STAB, which could really change damage output, and it opens defensive mons up to Toxic if they are immune. Regenerator means it doesn't even have to Wish + Protect, it can just Wish and switch. It looks like a really killer supporter to me.

That said, I would be hesitant to use a pokemon who gives free switch-ins to Roserade, particularly Spikes variants. Other bulky waters can at least deter offensive variants with Ice Beam, or, in Slowbro's case, Psyshock/Psychic.