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BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Tobes
- Start date
With Hasty you're just susceptible to a lot of things in general that you could otherwise survive and get a free kill. Priority becomes a big issue and you can't even check TechniLoom effectively.
252Atk Life Orb +2 Technician Breloom (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 0HP/0Def Tornadus Therian (Neutral): 56% - 66% (168 - 198 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb +2 Technician Breloom (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 0HP/0Def Tornadus Therian (-Def): 62% - 73% (186 - 221 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
You die with Life Orb after rocks with -Def, and this has been a common scenario for me several times. Priority is pretty common in the current metagame, so I don't ever like going -Def.
That's its niche in the metagame.. ? It can get a free KO pretty easily, especially when with the right partner. Haxorus is a cool one since you can fry steels with Flamethrower.
lol didn't mean to double :[
252Atk Life Orb +2 Technician Breloom (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 0HP/0Def Tornadus Therian (Neutral): 56% - 66% (168 - 198 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
252Atk Life Orb +2 Technician Breloom (+Atk) Mach Punch vs 0HP/0Def Tornadus Therian (-Def): 62% - 73% (186 - 221 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.
You die with Life Orb after rocks with -Def, and this has been a common scenario for me several times. Priority is pretty common in the current metagame, so I don't ever like going -Def.
That's its niche in the metagame.. ? It can get a free KO pretty easily, especially when with the right partner. Haxorus is a cool one since you can fry steels with Flamethrower.
lol didn't mean to double :[
Hmm, makes sense.
Either you're using Mold Breaker, which warns the opponent, or Rivalry, which weakens attacks on the opposite gender, which can really be a pain in this ass at times. Not the best thing to have, given that Haxxy is trying to rip things in half.Princess Bri said:
As for Zoroark, Keldeo is good if you can keep Stealth Rock off the field. Jellicent, Lati@s, Amonguss are all smashed by Zoroark. Spinners, too, makes for good partners, seeing as every spinblocker is mutilated by Zoroark.
Can turn a 6V6 into a 6V5 real quick. Either for your team or against your team. :P
Illusion is it's niche. You slip Zoroark in midgame to try and shift momentum your way by catching the opponent off guard.
There are better ways to do it, using other Pokemon, but Zoroark is good at what it does, when properly used. Too many people lead with Zoroark, get one shotted by the opponent leading with something really smashy because almost everyone that uses Zoroark leads with him instead of saving him for Midgame, were he can do the most good for a team.
That's just something else you have to take into account before deploying Zoroark. If Spikes are out, you can't have him pretend to be Skarmory, if SR is out, He can't be Heatran or Tornadus.
what? He can in fact be Heatran, as Heatran is neutral to SR. However, Heatran is immune to Toxic Spikes, although they are pretty much unusued in this metagame.
Wouldn't be Zoroark a great fit on sun teams? To power up Flamethrower, and also because most of them nowadays use Xatu, wich gets rid of hazards. Also, Zoroark disguised as Venusaur can lure Heatran and KO him with Focus Blast, wich would open an opportunity for the true Venusaur to sweep, as Heatran is one of the few ways to stop Venusaur apart from changing the weather.
I've tried running Zoroark in sun in BW1, and really found it underwhelming, simply because most of the team was dependent on having hazards off the field. There were never good times to get Zoroark into the fight, and I would often end up foddering him. That being said, I used to really suck back then, not to mention this is a new meta, so Zoro might be more easily used now.
Zoroark in general is a pretty cool Pokemon although it's hard to fit on a team especially when there are better team mates.
Genesect + Zoroark doesn't exactly work lol. Download trolls Zoroark pretty bad.
Genesect + Zoroark doesn't exactly work lol. Download trolls Zoroark pretty bad.
Scarf Zoroark is really good for revenging as well as hitting these Pokemon, and also OHKO'ing an unsuspecting Genesect with flamethrower is very nice.
Gene is used to get Zoro safely in with u-turn.
A Core I've used is Gene/Zoro/Keldeo, as most of Keldeo counters die to Zoro and Zoro can further disguise itself by running Calm Mind instead of NP.
Too all that are still using the
Lead Terrakion
Scarf Genesect
Jolly SD Breloom
RP Landorus
Yache Chomp
Scarf Keldeo
Team.
Stop using it. It sucks and loses to any good rain team used by a decent battler since you have nothing to switch into Spec/LO Surfs or Scarf Keldeo or Hurricane. Thank you for your consideration.
Lead Terrakion
Scarf Genesect
Jolly SD Breloom
RP Landorus
Yache Chomp
Scarf Keldeo
Team.
Stop using it. It sucks and loses to any good rain team used by a decent battler since you have nothing to switch into Spec/LO Surfs or Scarf Keldeo or Hurricane. Thank you for your consideration.
oh you mean my team
the idea isn't to be able to switch into stuff, if you have to go up against a specs keldeo surf or tornadus-t hurricane, just take it and then send something in that beats whoever just killed your previous 'mon, it's that simple
edit: granted, it definitely does have a weakness to tornadus-t + scarf keldeo, but not only can you play around those two, but they're extremely common these days, with keldeo not even breaking top 40 and torn-t dropping to below top 20 last month...
Your team loses to Scarf Keldeo + Tornadus-T which is my point (which is not really a crazy combination to use on a rain team). Eventually what happens is I kill, you kill, I kill, you kill...Scarf Keldeo mops you (with SR it flat OHKO's Chomp, Genesect, Landrous, Terrakion, and does ~80% to Breloom, and speed tie your Keldeo). Most rain teams have a guy that can switch into your Keldeo (yah you could double switch and stuff and play better but you are at inherent team disadvantage).
I just wouldn't want to use a team that weak to Keldeo and Tornadus given that they are the 2 best rain mons in the game. I standby my original statement. It sucks (now that people have gotten used to it). It was a nice team early in Chomp suspect.
I honestly like Zoroark right now. I peaked at 4th on the ladder with a scarf set simply because of how often it can instantly remove Genesect from play. Genesect loves to throw out u-turns on things it's confident will be slower, so I illusion zoroark as something that's typically a lot slower (heatran, for example), and get a free kill on Genesect. Now that Zoroark has trick I feel like choiced sets on it have become a lot more viable.
Gosh, it makes me happy to 2 see people talk about Zoroark in OU haha
I used Specs & Sub sets, but I should branch out and give scarf a shot. I think my favorite thing about Specs Zoroark was its ability to OHKO Deoxys-D, and with Illusion being fixed, they never see it coming ;)
I used Specs & Sub sets, but I should branch out and give scarf a shot. I think my favorite thing about Specs Zoroark was its ability to OHKO Deoxys-D, and with Illusion being fixed, they never see it coming ;)
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast
I bet it's an already known/classic set, but since I almost never encounter it in my ladder session, I felt like posting it.
I've been using it for two suspect Round and it's really awesome. It basically transformed my frail offensive rain from something quite unreliable to something good enough to move on battling and keeping a good victory/lose ratio.
It's a really great lure that hit really hard, I can't tell how much Landorus/Tentacruel/Ferrothorn/Kyurem-Black/etc I've killed using it. You really miss the speed sometimes tho, but heh that's not what Ebelt Thundu-T is used for.
I usually use it early game as it opens hole into team and needs its 100% health to tank at least one hit. Plus it really transformed my Rain team by bringing that Electric immunity that scares people enough to not use any Electric move early game (aka, the reason why I usually lead with Keldeo vs Genesect offense).
Note: I actually started using it with HP Flying because I wanted the OHKO vs every Breloom and because I really hated facing Amonguss. But I really missed the HP Ice lure kill I could get vs Garchomp, Landorus or even Thundurus-T and once I went Ice, I never went back.
I used that set on my main rain team that got to reqs. Easily beats out that cookie-cutter Politoed/Tentacruel/Ferrothorn/Tornadus-T/Dugtrio teams.
Also love the electric immunity as it stop Rotom-W from spamming Volt Switch like a mad man. Gotta love them Hydro Pumping Politoed fearing a Thundurus switch in, lol.
Also love the electric immunity as it stop Rotom-W from spamming Volt Switch like a mad man. Gotta love them Hydro Pumping Politoed fearing a Thundurus switch in, lol.
Interesting. What else have tutors given our ninja fox ?
What do you mean illusion being fixed ? (And glad to make you happy PK :)
I don't know what it was given besides trick. It's viable movepool is pretty shallow so outside of Dark Pulse, Flamethrower, Trick, Substitute, Focus Blast, U-turn, and maybe Grass Knot it doesn't have many, if any, options anyway.
I think the metagame is definitely far too centralised around Deoxys-D, Genesect and Tornadus-T. It's very similar to Latias and Salamence back in D/P when they caused the entire metagame to revolve around Dragon and Steel types. Once they were banned, things became much more balanced out and that meta was one of my favourite and, in my opinion, healthiest metas to exist. If we remove these three I think we can create a similar construct. I liked it better when my counters could switch in more than once before they become a deadweight or when I didn't have to resort to using lower tier Pokemon as niche counters. I don't have a problem with weather as such but Drizzle is probably more beneficial to run at this time than any other.
I don't understand why so many people claim Deoxys-D would centralise anything since it's place 49 in usage with under 5% . I also personally barely face it. I can relate to saying that it's too strong, though; With Genesect gone, it will definitely get a lot more viable, thus I'd say that he's a suspect. But I think Genesect should be banned and THEN one should look whether Deoxys-D's usage explodes.
Aside from Genesect, I'm also rather worried about weather. If you add up the usage of all weather starters, HALF of all teams use one. That's what I'd call centralizing.Without rain, tornadus suddenly is also much less threatening (though still viable imho). Still, I have to admit that I also think that weather is great addition to the game, so I'd rather have something that just makes it a bit less viable, instead of completely banning weather, but I have no idea how that could be done.