how depressing
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Metagame Camomons
- Thread starter in the hills
- Start date
You got AAA to lead :D?
That moment u see TI post in ur favorite om and you have that mini heart attack thinking its gonna get locked
Facts. TI is the grim reaper
rip the only other metagame I've actually been skilled enough in bar mnm to be considered a player for is gone
despite that, anyone wanna rework the vr with me in the meantime despite the meta being dead
despite that, anyone wanna rework the vr with me in the meantime despite the meta being dead
I could try and reccomend a few things as well as some nice typings for some mons. The vr really needs an update
Its a sad day
Here's some mons I've been using with some success. What do you guys think?
Zeraora @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Taunt
- Knock Off
Electric/Fighting is a nice STAB combo for this meta with a bunch of Normal, Steel, and Water types running around. The speed is really nice for a fast taunt when leading against hazard setters. Not to mention they might be rock type to take big damage from close combat. Taunt and knock off are nice utility moves to go with nice STABs.
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Close Combat
- Taunt
- Knock Off
Electric/Fighting is a nice STAB combo for this meta with a bunch of Normal, Steel, and Water types running around. The speed is really nice for a fast taunt when leading against hazard setters. Not to mention they might be rock type to take big damage from close combat. Taunt and knock off are nice utility moves to go with nice STABs.
Incineroar @ Assault Vest
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Atk / 124 Def
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Fake Out
Another useful mon but more for defense than offense compared to Zeraora. Intimidate is nice with the resistance to stealth rocks. Drain punch is good for recovery and hits things like Steel/Grass Heatran hard. Knock off for those pesky Normal/Ghost mons and general utility. This paired with a cleric/wish support helps it last even longer. EVs to give it some offensive presence and assault vest to help take special hits.
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 136 Atk / 124 Def
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Fake Out
Another useful mon but more for defense than offense compared to Zeraora. Intimidate is nice with the resistance to stealth rocks. Drain punch is good for recovery and hits things like Steel/Grass Heatran hard. Knock off for those pesky Normal/Ghost mons and general utility. This paired with a cleric/wish support helps it last even longer. EVs to give it some offensive presence and assault vest to help take special hits.
Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Mach Punch
- Spore
- Swords Dance
While walled by ghosts, if played right this guy hits like a truck. This is best used late game or against a slower wall that isn't a ghost. Even unboosted facade hits for massive damage. It is incredible slow and frail though, so use with caution.
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Mach Punch
- Spore
- Swords Dance
While walled by ghosts, if played right this guy hits like a truck. This is best used late game or against a slower wall that isn't a ghost. Even unboosted facade hits for massive damage. It is incredible slow and frail though, so use with caution.
Define "resurrection". By which means should we resurrect this thread? I could go make a team but it will be a while.
Some long-awaited updates:
- Very shortly there will be a large tour here in the OM subforum in which you can play Camomons, so be on the look out for that. It's a chance to see or even participate in some good Camomons battles again if you missed it in OMGS.
- Now that I've got some time I'll work on updating the resources so it's not so out of date. Sorry boys
- I believe now that we've lost our rotational ladder we have a shot at being an OMotM every month now. Makes sense to me, anyway. If you're a fan of Camomons, please vote for it next month! Not really an update, but there ya go
I'm sorry for the wait, everyone!That’s awesome. If you need any help with anything feel free to let me know :)
After a day of discussion a few of us finally put together a vr that we feel represents the current metagame
big shoutouts to Jrdn Andyboy Chazm GL Volkner and Catalystic for helping a lot with this
Camomons Viability Rankings
S-Rank
S
Dragonite [Fire/Normal, Ground/Normal, Normal/Water, Flying/Steel, Ground/Steel, Dragon/Steel]
Latias-Mega [Poison/Water, Electric/Dragon, Electric/Water, Ghost/Electric]
Zygarde [Ground/Normal, Ground/Poison, Ground/Steel]
A-Rank
A+
Cresselia [Electric/Fairy, Fairy/Poison, Grass/Poison, Ghost/Fairy, Electric/Poison]
Kommo-o [Dragon/Fire, Fire/Steel, Dragon/Steel]
Mawile-Mega [Dark/Fairy, Dark/Steel, Electric/Fairy]
Mew [Grass/Water, Flying/Steel, Dragon/Water Ground/Psychic]
A
Buzzwole [Bug/Steel, Flying/Steel]
Chandelure [Ghost/Grass]
Greninja-Ash [Dark/Water]
Heatran [Grass/Steel, Fire/Grass]
Heracross [Fighting/Normal]
Landorus-T [Bug/Ground, Dark/Ground, Ground/Rock]
Latias [Poison/Water, Dragon/Poison]
Medicham-Mega [Electric/Fighting, Fighting/Normal, Fighting/Poison]
Porygon-Z [Electric/Ice, Ghost/Normal, Dark/Ghost]
Tapu Lele [Fighting/Psychic, Electric/Psychic, Grass/Psychic]
Tornadus-T [Dark/Poison, Fighting/Flying]
A-
Chansey [Normal, Ghost/Normal, Fairy/Normal]
Charizard-Mega-X [Dragon/Ghost, Fire/Ground, Ghost/Normal, Dragon/Electric]
Diggersby [Dark/Poison]
Hoopa-U [Dark/Poison, Dark/Fire]
Latios [Dragon/Electric, Electric/Ice]
Magearna [Fighting/Ghost, Electric/Fairy, Ghost/Steel, Fairy/Steel]
Manaphy [Ghost/Grass, Fairy/Water, Ghost/Water, Fairy/Ghost, Grass/Water]
Snorlax [Dark/Poison]
Tapu Koko [Electric/Fairy, Electric/Grass]
Toxapex [Poison/Water, Dark/Poison]
Victini [Electric/Fire]
Volcanion [Ground/Poison, Fire/Ground]
Volcarona [Fire/Grass, Fire/Psychic]
B Rank
B+
Aerodactyl-Mega [Steel/Water, Dark/Steel, Dark/Normal]
Beedrill-Mega [Dark/Ground, Bug/Ground]
Gyarados-Mega [Ground/Water]
Haxorus [Ground/Water, Ground/Poison]
Hydreigon [Poison/Water, Dark/Poison]
Reuniclus [Fairy/Steel, Fairy/Psychic]
Sableye-Mega [Dark/Poison]
Scizor-Mega [Flying/Steel]
Tyranitar [Dragon/Rock]
Tyranitar-Mega [Fighting/Rock]
B
Alakazam-Mega [Fighting/Ghost]
Articuno [Flying/Poison]
Avalugg [Dark/Poison]
Celebi [Bug/Ground]
Celesteela [Psychic/Steel, Flying/Steel]
Charizard-Mega-Y [Fire/Grass]
Chesnaught [Grass/Steel]
Clefable [Fairy/Fire, Fairy/Grass, Bug/Ghost, Grass/Psychic]
Diancie-Mega [Fairy/Ground]
Gallade-Mega [Fighting/Ghost, Fighting/Ice]
Gliscor [Ground/Normal]
Hippowdon [Poison/Rock, Dark/Rock]
Magnezone [Electric/Fire]
Sharpedo-Mega [Dark/Psychic]
Slowbro [Grass/Water]
Tangrowth [Grass]
Tapu Bulu [Fighting/Grass, Grass/Rock]
Terrakion [Fighting/Rock, Normal/Rock]
Zeraora [Electric/Fighting, Flying/Steel]
B-
Azelf [Electric/Ice, Electric/Fire]
Blastoise-Mega [Dragon/Fighting, Dark/Fighting]
Cloyster [Ice/Rock]
Excadrill [Ground/Steel, Ground/Poison]
Ferrothorn [Dark/Poison]
Hawlucha [Electric/Flying, Fighting/Flying, Dark/Poison, Fighting/Poison]
Heracross-Mega [Grass/Rock]
Jirachi [Fairy/Steel]
Slurpuff [Fairy/Fighting]
Smeargle [Bug/Grass]
Stakataka [Ground/Steel]
Thundurus [Electric/Fighting]
Uxie [Dark/Poison, Electric/Psychic]
C Rank
C
Cryogonal [Poison/Steel, Dark/Poison]
Feraligatr [Dark/Water]
Kyurem [Flying/Ground]
Moltres [Fire/Poison]
Rhydon [Steel/Water]
Salamence [Dragon/Water, Dark/Flying, Flying/Poison]
Xurkitree [Electric/Grass, Electric/Fairy]
S-Rank
S
A-Rank
A+
A
A-
B Rank
B+
B
B-
C Rank
C
big shoutouts to Jrdn Andyboy Chazm GL Volkner and Catalystic for helping a lot with this
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Two things:
1) Join the all-new Camomons discord! https://discord.gg/7ZjSjZy
2) The VR has received an update! Check it out here. Thank you to everyone who worked on it
1) Join the all-new Camomons discord! https://discord.gg/7ZjSjZy
2) The VR has received an update! Check it out here. Thank you to everyone who worked on it
Hey everyone, camomons seems like a very fun meta to play. So far I’ve been experimenting with a kokolucha combo, like that of OU.
The speed EVs are to outspeed Jolly Sand Excadrill in sand, which I have no idea how relevant that is here, but I really didn’t know what to EV for, so I just took those EVs off the OU analysis. I put max attack Adamant to hit as hard as possible and rest into HP, but the EVs could probably be optimized by someone who knows the metagame more than me. I think Steel/Flying typing allows this bird to setup more easily than ever, especially when coupled with the defense boost from Electric Seed, and then sweep teams without a Flying resist (granted I assume most teams carry one though). I assume it can set up on a lot of Dark/Poisons and presumably other defensive typings that lack SE coverage against it, and Toxic is no longer a stop since it has the new Steel typing. It could also run stuff like High Jump Kick instead to give it Steel/Fighting, which while not as good as a defensive typing, still provides it many setup opportunities and bypasses the Electric weakness that plagues the previous example. I feel like it could even run like Thunder Punch + High Jump Kick/Acrobatics, and play around with its offensive typing to beat stuff it’s other sets don’t. That being said, what are all your thoughts on this mon? Been using it in some roomtours and it seems decently solid (haven’t tested outside of Steel/Flying though). Sorry if this is the wrong place to discuss this.
Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Swords Dance
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Iron Head
- Roost
- Swords Dance
The speed EVs are to outspeed Jolly Sand Excadrill in sand, which I have no idea how relevant that is here, but I really didn’t know what to EV for, so I just took those EVs off the OU analysis. I put max attack Adamant to hit as hard as possible and rest into HP, but the EVs could probably be optimized by someone who knows the metagame more than me. I think Steel/Flying typing allows this bird to setup more easily than ever, especially when coupled with the defense boost from Electric Seed, and then sweep teams without a Flying resist (granted I assume most teams carry one though). I assume it can set up on a lot of Dark/Poisons and presumably other defensive typings that lack SE coverage against it, and Toxic is no longer a stop since it has the new Steel typing. It could also run stuff like High Jump Kick instead to give it Steel/Fighting, which while not as good as a defensive typing, still provides it many setup opportunities and bypasses the Electric weakness that plagues the previous example. I feel like it could even run like Thunder Punch + High Jump Kick/Acrobatics, and play around with its offensive typing to beat stuff it’s other sets don’t. That being said, what are all your thoughts on this mon? Been using it in some roomtours and it seems decently solid (haven’t tested outside of Steel/Flying though). Sorry if this is the wrong place to discuss this.
Funbot28
Banned deucer.
Hi so I wanted to make a formal post on this even though this has been "discussed" heavily in the Camo discord and on PS. I firmly believe
deserves a looking into.
Not only is it one of the most versatile threats in the current meta, being able to run countless types such as Poison / Water, Electric / Ice, Dragon / Electric, Water / Electric, Electric / Ghost, etc... viably but also has the capability on fitting on just about every team due to the amount it roles it can run as being one of the metagames best setup sweepers, entry hazard removers, and generally great bulky pivots that can benefit every team that it's placed on. I feel this places a certain strain on teambuilding due to how difficult it can be to check a certain Mega Latias set (and as I mentioned previously, there are many to account for). There are so many mega options that just get shut down by Mega Latias's presence due to the opportunity cost of not having ur own Mega Lati as well, which I find it kind of unhealthy as well.
I feel this should be addressed asap especially with Snake occurring. Im sure others would agree.
Replays of it in action (theres more but too lazy to search rn):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7camomons-803144046
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7camomons-797776433
Not only is it one of the most versatile threats in the current meta, being able to run countless types such as Poison / Water, Electric / Ice, Dragon / Electric, Water / Electric, Electric / Ghost, etc... viably but also has the capability on fitting on just about every team due to the amount it roles it can run as being one of the metagames best setup sweepers, entry hazard removers, and generally great bulky pivots that can benefit every team that it's placed on. I feel this places a certain strain on teambuilding due to how difficult it can be to check a certain Mega Latias set (and as I mentioned previously, there are many to account for). There are so many mega options that just get shut down by Mega Latias's presence due to the opportunity cost of not having ur own Mega Lati as well, which I find it kind of unhealthy as well.
I feel this should be addressed asap especially with Snake occurring. Im sure others would agree.
Replays of it in action (theres more but too lazy to search rn):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7camomons-803144046
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7camomons-797776433
So coming out of snake with the esteemed record of 0-2 I've decided to drop some sets I may or may not have used I don't even remember at this point to enlighten y'all with my losing strats. Actually, after writing this up, I used almost none of these, mostly opting to play it safe instead, which may have been part of my problem.
Zeraora @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Substitute
- Endeavor
This set abuses Zeraora's high speed tier to Sub up on things it forces switches against (choice locked Electric types for instance, or Electric / Poison Mega Latias, or things weak to Close Combat). Rather than try to keep sub up at all costs this set aims to set up Sub three time, get the attack boost, and go to town, most of the time. Against Espeed users you want to keep Sub up so you can Close Combat them as they break your sub. Acrobatics is used as your secondary STAB for a couple reasons; coverage against Pokemon like the common Ghost/Grass types, abusing the Electric immunity, and granting Fighting/Grass resistance and Ground immunity.
Pangoro @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Swords Dance
- Taunt / Superpower
Stallbreaker. Not really that complex. Poison / Dark is both an incredible defensive and offensive typing. It can deal with the common Ghosts in the metagame and Mold Breaker lets it ignore abilities like Unaware, Magic Bounce, and the omnipresent Weak Armor. Needs Superpower to beat some Steels and Taunt to beat some fat stuff that can phaze it.
Latias-Mega @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Steel Wing
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Roost
This is a set I actually brought, although it got KO'd very quickly by that damn Tapu Bulu I had literally nothing for. Latias-Mega is overall an insane threat in this metagame and I agree with Chopin who said in the snake thread that it was broken. This set is not what breaks it. There are overall better Latias-Mega sets. What this set brings to the table is basically its amazing defensive typing, including a Toxic immunity, which lets it theoretically set up and break through teams once their Dark type or hazer / phazer is down. Having to run Steel Wing for Steel typing and not having any immediately powerful moves are major downsides and make this set overall not one of Latias' more threatening, but it's not awful.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I agree with Funbot, right above this, too.
Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Lax Nature
- Giga Drain
- Curse
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
Your basic Grass/Ghost type, but this time with Regen and even more physical bulk. I didn't test this much but it seems like it would have a hard time going wrong.
Snorlax @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Gunk Shot
- Crunch
- Earthquake
I was at one point looking for a solid Pursuit trapper a la Alola-Muk in AAA and this fatso looked to be about right for the job. Its great special bulk and decent attack is what I was looking for to take on most of the frail Psychic / Ghost special attackers, and Snorlax gets the movepool to go Dark/Poison, which I personally consider the optimal typing for bulky pursuit trappers in general.
Zeraora @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Substitute
- Endeavor
This set abuses Zeraora's high speed tier to Sub up on things it forces switches against (choice locked Electric types for instance, or Electric / Poison Mega Latias, or things weak to Close Combat). Rather than try to keep sub up at all costs this set aims to set up Sub three time, get the attack boost, and go to town, most of the time. Against Espeed users you want to keep Sub up so you can Close Combat them as they break your sub. Acrobatics is used as your secondary STAB for a couple reasons; coverage against Pokemon like the common Ghost/Grass types, abusing the Electric immunity, and granting Fighting/Grass resistance and Ground immunity.
Pangoro @ Darkinium Z
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Gunk Shot
- Swords Dance
- Taunt / Superpower
Stallbreaker. Not really that complex. Poison / Dark is both an incredible defensive and offensive typing. It can deal with the common Ghosts in the metagame and Mold Breaker lets it ignore abilities like Unaware, Magic Bounce, and the omnipresent Weak Armor. Needs Superpower to beat some Steels and Taunt to beat some fat stuff that can phaze it.
Latias-Mega @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Steel Wing
- Stored Power
- Calm Mind
- Roost
This is a set I actually brought, although it got KO'd very quickly by that damn Tapu Bulu I had literally nothing for. Latias-Mega is overall an insane threat in this metagame and I agree with Chopin who said in the snake thread that it was broken. This set is not what breaks it. There are overall better Latias-Mega sets. What this set brings to the table is basically its amazing defensive typing, including a Toxic immunity, which lets it theoretically set up and break through teams once their Dark type or hazer / phazer is down. Having to run Steel Wing for Steel typing and not having any immediately powerful moves are major downsides and make this set overall not one of Latias' more threatening, but it's not awful.
EDIT: Oh yeah, I agree with Funbot, right above this, too.
Tangrowth @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Lax Nature
- Giga Drain
- Curse
- Leech Seed
- Knock Off
Your basic Grass/Ghost type, but this time with Regen and even more physical bulk. I didn't test this much but it seems like it would have a hard time going wrong.
Snorlax @ Choice Band
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Gunk Shot
- Crunch
- Earthquake
I was at one point looking for a solid Pursuit trapper a la Alola-Muk in AAA and this fatso looked to be about right for the job. Its great special bulk and decent attack is what I was looking for to take on most of the frail Psychic / Ghost special attackers, and Snorlax gets the movepool to go Dark/Poison, which I personally consider the optimal typing for bulky pursuit trappers in general.
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They're neutral to rocks, have only one weakness to ground which can often times be avoided like in the case of Mlatias, resist knock off and pursuit, and do not take chip damage from poison or toxic.
I thought this might be an entertaining set:
Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Will-O-Wisp
The type of Normal and Ghost has always appealed to me as it has three immunities and it's only super effective weakness is Dark. Having a Pokemon with Pixelate and a move as strong as Hyper Voice deals strongly with Dark types. Ghost and Fairy gives you a perfect neutral coverage and can cover all moves as needed. Psyshock helps to cover Sp Def walls and Wisp is there to weaken physical attackers, which many Dark types tend to be. Gardevoir also has Trace before and can pick up some immunity abilities such as Levitate, Sap Sipper, or Volt Absorb.
Gardevoir-Mega @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Psyshock
- Will-O-Wisp
The type of Normal and Ghost has always appealed to me as it has three immunities and it's only super effective weakness is Dark. Having a Pokemon with Pixelate and a move as strong as Hyper Voice deals strongly with Dark types. Ghost and Fairy gives you a perfect neutral coverage and can cover all moves as needed. Psyshock helps to cover Sp Def walls and Wisp is there to weaken physical attackers, which many Dark types tend to be. Gardevoir also has Trace before and can pick up some immunity abilities such as Levitate, Sap Sipper, or Volt Absorb.
Pixelated Hyper Voice might deal with Dark-types in most metas, but keep in mind that a lot of Dark-types in Camomons shore up their Fairy weakness with a secondary Poison typing, so you're left with an off-STAB neutral move that does something like this:
252 SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 79-94 (26 - 31%) -- 13.3% chance to 4HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 154-182 (42.6 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
Psyshock also won't be of much help in breaking special walls that aren't weak to it.
252 SpA Gardevoir-Mega Psyshock vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 138-163 (19.6 - 23.2%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Gardevoir-Mega Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 90-106 (24.7 - 29.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
If you want a Normal/Ghost that has good coverage to hit Dark/Poison-types, you can always just rely on Hyper Voice, but Earth Power hits them even harder. The only things that get Hyper Voice + Earth Power + Shadow Ball are Mew and Kyurem; Mew is better suited to a bulky role, so you'd probably use Kyurem. Here's what a set might look like:
Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Shadow Ball
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
The set should be straightforward. Modest is, unfortunately, mandatory to get good rolls with your STABs.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 136-162 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 124-147 (40.9 - 48.5%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cresselia: 192-226 (43.3 - 51%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Cresselia: 175-207 (39.5 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
A problem arises in that Mega Latias can switch in on a non-SE move, set up Calm Mind, and then start roosting off the damage, even if Kyurem does 2HKO it on paper; consequently, I hesitate to recommend this set in earnest unless MLati is covered elsewhere on the team. Maybe Noivern is a better option (Specs Boomburst/Shadow Ball/U-Turn/Switcheroo) even if it doesn't get Earth Power. idk
Just gonna comment on some metagame/suspect stuff in case we one day get omotm again (hopefully January)
Latias-Mega: Starting with Funbot's nomination for a Mega Latias suspect, while back in August/September I probably would have agreed with it, the more that the meta evolves and the more understanding you have of the tier, the more it becomes clear that MLati, while a potent threat, is most certainly a manageable Pokemon. Gonna be talking mostly about its Water/Poison set since that's just about the only relevant set, but there are an abundance of checks to it.
A main argument used when asking for a suspect is that defensively checking Latias-Mega seems to be trickier for most people as its bulk makes it hard for defensive checks to break, you have options such as Toxapex, Grass/Poison Chansey, Volcanion, and Chesnaught, and many others. There are also pokemon such as Water/Normal Gliscor, Poison/Dragon Buzzwole, and Snorlax who are able to come in on Latias and use it as setup fodder. Overall, defensively checking Latias-Mega is a lot easier than most people make it out to be, and just requires a little thought.
Offensively checking Mlati is different, as you do need to pressure it more so that it cannot come in easily and spends most of its turns while in trying to recover, as max speed does make it more difficult to switchin to. However, pokemon such as Steel/Dragon Dragonite*, Psychic/Grass Tapu Lele, Electric/Grass Tapu Koko, and generally strong attackers can break Latias fairly easily. Latias-Mega in general finds it difficult to come in against offensive threats such as Zygarde, Kommo-O (who can just shut it down with Taunt) and Mega-Medicham.
TL;DR, While Latias-Mega is a strong threat, there are plenty of offensive and defensive checks available to beat it, and its original hype was mostly caused by poor teambuilding. Do not suspect.
There is one Pokemon however that is definitely deserving of a ban: Dragonite
As much as I love Dragonite, I strongly believe that it is much too strong for this tier. With Multiscale, an incredibly high Attack set, and versatile moveset, the the amount of sets Dragonite can abuse is ridiculously limiting on teams. Between Choice Band sets such as Normal/Ground, Normal/Fire and Normal/Water and Dragon Dance sets such as Dragon/Steel, Steel/Flying, Ground/Steel and even Electric/Flying, defensive checks to Dragonite are incredibly limited. This is increased by the fact that a good amount of Choice Band typed sets have begun opting for Dragon Dance Z sets to lure in the few defensive checks such as Chandelure and Mew in who rely on their typing and/or their abilities to check Dragonite. Offensively checking Dragonite is even harder, as there are few offensive Pokemon who can tank a banded Extreme Speed or outspeed a Dragon Dance set, and kill in return while Multiscale is still in tact. Dragonite causes an incredible strain on teambuilding and should be suspected and potentially banned.
Other than suspects, I'll go ahead and make a couple VR noms
Gligar (Bug/Ground) UR -> C/B- This nom is based on Gligar's utility on bulkier teams and stall. It is overshadowed a lot by the more offensive Landorus-Therian, but with the Immunity ability which makes it immune to Toxic, increased bulk thanks to Eviolite, and access to recovery, Gligar is a very nice defensive Stealth Rock setter/Defogger.
Venusaur-Mega (Poison/Dark) UR -> C Mega Venusaur is a very nice bulky Pokemon, and is one of the hardest Poison/Darks to kill. It fairs very nicely against other Poison/Darks as it can Knock Off and Leech Seed them while they can't do much of anything back, and is one of the few Pokemon that can switch into Specs Porygon-Z comfortably. While it does take your mega slot for a fairly common typing, it is definitely worth using and I believe worth ranking
Porygon-Z A -> A+ This nom I've been thinking about for a few months and I'm still not 100% on it, but Porygon-Z is like really fucking hard to switch into. Its Electric/Ice and Dark/Ghost Specs sets can 1hko like over half of the tier lol, and it can run Scarf to be very nice speed control. Psychic type variants are also very potent against meta threats such as MLati, but you need to be wary of Poison/Dark. While it is pretty frail and a lot of Pokemon can revenge its Specs sets, it is probably the best at breaking bulky teams in the tier right now.
Tapu Bulu B -> B+ Tapu Bulu hits ridiculously hard and is overall a super cool mon in this meta. Grass resists are fairly uncommon, and Tapu Bulu exploits this fact incredibly well. In Snake, Tapu Bulu definitely showed how potent of a threat it is in this meta, with the added support of Grassy Terrain.
Definitely would love to see some more activity in this tier as it's honestly one of the most fun OMs, and hopefully we can get OMOTM again soon, but for now that's all I got thanks for reading :) FREE CAMO
Last time I played Camomons (months ago) I was testing Dark/Ghost Double Dance Porygon-Z. It dodges Extreme Speed and is Prankster-immune with excellent coverage and a great match-up against basically every team archetype.
Been playing this a lot in Camomons and ohhhhhh boy is it better than I expected~
Banette-Mega @ Banettite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Return
- Taunt / Will-o-Wisp / Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak / Knock Off
This set is hellishly infuriating to deal with, able to pick off weakened opponents, break stall, disrupt momentum, and dispatch of problem threats all in one devious set. Destiny Bond alongside Prankster is the main draw of the set, allowing you to freely trade with another potential roadblock and reset all momentum in your favor. Return being used as its secondary STAB option offers many benefits for Mega Banette. It's the strongest reliable offensive option for use, grants fantastic neutral STAB coverage, and allows Banette the option to deal crazy STAB damage instead of solely playing a utility role. Furthermore, the Ghost/Normal typing is a perfect typing for a Prankster user, invalidating most priority options such as Extreme Speed, Fake Out, Shadow Sneak, Quick Attack, and Mach Punch as options to counterplay against it, as well as offering a brutal punishment against Dark types trying to impede on Prankster's shenanigans. The last two slots are primarily for utility. Taunt shuts down setup or stall tactics while you crash into them for major damage in Return, while also forcing opponents to blindly run into Destiny Bond next turn. However, Will-o-Wisp drastically cripples physical sweepers to near-uselessness without resorting to Destiny Bond. Shadow Sneak is the preferred Ghost STAB for Banette, allowing it to pick off limping foes with its massive Attack stat and optimizing its coverage. However, Knock Off can be used instead to eliminate the opponents items that they may rely on. Shadow Claw can be opted for either of the last two slots to give Banette another strong STAB move that can hit foes which Return cannot by dealing more damage to opponents weak to Ghost and neutral at worst to Normal, but it is generally preferred to have Shadow Sneak and a utility option rather than another power move that is typically unnecessary. The EVs maximize the damage that Mega Banette will deal and offers enough Speed to outpace Neutral Base 70s like Volcanion and smack them before they can respond, with the rest put into HP to potentially survive what could initially be OHKOs. In all honesty, the EVs are fairly interchangeable just so long as it's at least Adamant with considerable Attack investment.
Just to give an idea of how strong STAB Return can be:
252+ Atk Banette-Mega (Ghost/Normal) Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 153-180 (50.3 - 59.2%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Banette-Mega (Ghost/Normal) Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 289-342 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Banette-Mega (Ghost/Normal) Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 186-220 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Banette-Mega (Ghost/Normal) Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 139-165 (31.3 - 37.1%) -- 81.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Banette-Mega (Ghost/Normal) Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran (Fire/Grass) : 208-246 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Banette-Mega (Ghost/Normal) Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mew: 219-258 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Seriously, I know this is beatable and isn't the most meta thing available considering it uses a Mega slot, but it's good. Like, really good. If I had to nominate, I'd say this thing is B- at least and B or B+ at the very most.
Banette-Mega @ Banettite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Destiny Bond
- Return
- Taunt / Will-o-Wisp / Knock Off
- Shadow Sneak / Knock Off
This set is hellishly infuriating to deal with, able to pick off weakened opponents, break stall, disrupt momentum, and dispatch of problem threats all in one devious set. Destiny Bond alongside Prankster is the main draw of the set, allowing you to freely trade with another potential roadblock and reset all momentum in your favor. Return being used as its secondary STAB option offers many benefits for Mega Banette. It's the strongest reliable offensive option for use, grants fantastic neutral STAB coverage, and allows Banette the option to deal crazy STAB damage instead of solely playing a utility role. Furthermore, the Ghost/Normal typing is a perfect typing for a Prankster user, invalidating most priority options such as Extreme Speed, Fake Out, Shadow Sneak, Quick Attack, and Mach Punch as options to counterplay against it, as well as offering a brutal punishment against Dark types trying to impede on Prankster's shenanigans. The last two slots are primarily for utility. Taunt shuts down setup or stall tactics while you crash into them for major damage in Return, while also forcing opponents to blindly run into Destiny Bond next turn. However, Will-o-Wisp drastically cripples physical sweepers to near-uselessness without resorting to Destiny Bond. Shadow Sneak is the preferred Ghost STAB for Banette, allowing it to pick off limping foes with its massive Attack stat and optimizing its coverage. However, Knock Off can be used instead to eliminate the opponents items that they may rely on. Shadow Claw can be opted for either of the last two slots to give Banette another strong STAB move that can hit foes which Return cannot by dealing more damage to opponents weak to Ghost and neutral at worst to Normal, but it is generally preferred to have Shadow Sneak and a utility option rather than another power move that is typically unnecessary. The EVs maximize the damage that Mega Banette will deal and offers enough Speed to outpace Neutral Base 70s like Volcanion and smack them before they can respond, with the rest put into HP to potentially survive what could initially be OHKOs. In all honesty, the EVs are fairly interchangeable just so long as it's at least Adamant with considerable Attack investment.
Just to give an idea of how strong STAB Return can be:
252+ Atk Banette-Mega (Ghost/Normal) Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Toxapex: 153-180 (50.3 - 59.2%) -- 75.4% chance to 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Banette-Mega (Ghost/Normal) Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 289-342 (41.1 - 48.6%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Banette-Mega (Ghost/Normal) Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 186-220 (51 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Banette-Mega (Ghost/Normal) Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 139-165 (31.3 - 37.1%) -- 81.6% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Banette-Mega (Ghost/Normal) Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran (Fire/Grass) : 208-246 (53.8 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Banette-Mega (Ghost/Normal) Return vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mew: 219-258 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Seriously, I know this is beatable and isn't the most meta thing available considering it uses a Mega slot, but it's good. Like, really good. If I had to nominate, I'd say this thing is B- at least and B or B+ at the very most.