CAP 10 CAP 10 - Main Typing Discussion

[beej]

It is now time to discuss the typing of CAP 10. Considering that this Pokemon is going to be expected to deal with virtually any threat situationally, typing is going to have a lot of bearing on its ability to switch into things. So I encourage you to be creative here, within limits (as in, try not to poll jump), and keep in mind that a typing that you select should probably not facilitate any horribly common weaknesses, as that would defeat the purpose of the concept in many ways.

Name: Utility Counter
General Description: This Pokemon is capable of being customized to counter virtually any specific Pokemon, but is incapable of countering a large number of Pokemon at the same time.
Justification: It is not unusual for people to say that "versatility is broken" from an offensive standpoint; less attention is given to versatile defensive Pokemon such as Zapdos or Hariyama. This Pokemon would allow us to study the impact of having a Pokemon that is capable of dealing with such varied threats as Salamence, Lucario, and Gengar....but not all at once.
Questions To Be Answered:
--How useful is defensive versatility in a metagame with so many different threats to account for?
--Given the existence of a Pokemon that can hard counter only specific major threats, which threats will be prepared for the most?
--How would team building change if certain difficult-to-prepare-for threats became easier to prepare for?
--Which is more useful, a Pokemon that can somewhat handle a wide range of threats, or a Pokemon that can handle a few threats extremely well?

Please remember that this is the MAIN typing discussion, so you shouldn't go off-topic with discussions about the secondary typing. This thread will be closed when the final main typing poll closes. The first one will be posted in a few days.

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Now that we're at the main typing discussion, it is important that I make this announcement so anticipation doesn't affect discussion or voting:

Multitype is not going to be allowed.

This is an extremely controversial decision, considering how popular Multitype has been in discussions both on and off the forums, and I'm fully aware of the fact that it can be considered an embodiment of the concept, in many ways. But I promise you that I put a hell of a lot of thought into this, and have consulted multiple people before making this executive decision. Multitype puts a hell of a lot of strain on the process, because it effectively combines several polls and has plenty of bearing on the others.

However, the main reason why Multitype is not allowed is because I feel that it is effectively a finished idea. A Multitype Pokemon almost builds itself. Once you have decided that the Pokemon will be Multitype, you have effectively crippled the creative aspect of the process. The typing and ability are effectively decided on, the movepool is required to provide ultimate versatility and STAB in every area, and the stats are basically required to become as balanced as possible. I don't care if Multitype is "perfect" for this concept, because by allowing it, we are effectively saying "hey, we don't have to go through the whole creative process with this CAP, we can just make a weaker Arceus to fit the concept instead!" I am determined to run a CAP project that allows creative thinking to flourish, and if I had assumed that we would be restricted to Multitype with this concept or we would otherwise face failure, I would have disqualified it.

This decision was come to after discussing this in private for many days, and I do not make it lightly. It's not going to be reversed.

 

[Anachronism]

If we want utility we need to make sure to keep weaknesses to a minimum. Normal typing does this, as do electric with levitate, ghost/dark, ghost/poison with levitate, and others. Water is fairly good as far as defensive typing goes too.

I think that to avoid an eq weakness if we don't want to use an ability slot on levitate that it would be best to go with Normal Typing. It is versatile because of the various neutralities that it has. Another important thing to note about normal typing is that normal stab sucks. This may seem like a bad thing but imo it SHOULD have a bad stab to encourage attacks that hit weakness and ensure bad coverage so that it is more likely that it will be walled by things it is not designed to counter. Although this doesn't matter competitively, most of the CAPS we have already done have used the other types I would consider, so I think going with normal would be nice for a change of pace too.

EDIT: I have changed my position. My vote is now on page 10.

 

[Roserade Raider]

I'm going to suggest Normal for the main typing of our Pokemon. I think Normal is good for our Utility Counter because since it does not resist any type, you cannot effectively "wall" any Pokemon's moveset with your typing. Also, Normal-type Pokemon typically have very wide movepools encompassing a variety of attack moves and supporting moves. The only problem with Normal is that it is not super-effective against any type, so a secondary typing may or may not be needed to alleviate this.

 

[Fuzznip]

I agree with the banning of Multitype.

I believe that Water should be considered as one of the main types for Utility Counter. Not only is Water one of those types that work well with several other types, but I believe it fits this concept extremely well. Water is a very balanced typing, meaning it can be used defensively and still pack a bit of a punch, and vice versa. Since it's a pretty balanced typing, it's easy to sculpt which direction we want our Utility Counter to take. We can construct it to be physically defensive, specially defensive, or maybe even offensive if one may want to take that route, all with great success.

Another reason why I like Water is because of its weaknesses and resistances. Being only weak to Grass and Electric is definitely not bad at all. For one, Grass isn't used as often offensively, so it's not going to threaten Utility Counter as much. The weakness to Electric may be some what of an issue, but with various Pokemon in the OU metagame being able to take this type with ease is something to think of. Also, the Electric weakness can be accommodated by our secondary typing, should we go for one. As for Water's resistances, we get resistances to Fire, Ice, Steel, and Water. All of these types are used significantly in the OU metagame, so we get to resist a decent amount of popular types straight away.

I will probably post more support for Water as they come, as well as other types I feel should be considered.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I'm going to venture forth into this discussion by suggesting the typing of Steel as the primary type. I suggest this typing because it offers 12 key resistances to important-to-resist types that it may (likely) end up countering. Resistance to Dragon is perhaps the most valuable of these, as it allows it to step in against many of the Dragons of OU feeling better about its chances.

Weaknesses to Fire, Fighting, and Ground can all be addressed by either an ability or a second-type at a later stage of the development process. Steel is also the most defensive type of the game, so naturally it fits in with a Pokemon whose intent is to switch into varied threats and come out defensively on top. Furthermore, a main typing of Steel no longer forces CAP10 to have such an incredible bulky stat distribution to take neutral hits and not be 2HKO'd at the worst. A handy immunity to poison is something a defensive Pokemon also likes being able to take advantage of. Lastly, the main typing of Steel facilitates numerous potential developments in the later stages of the CAP process and doesn't stifle creativity like other options may (water, normal, etc.).

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

I'm thinking we should go with Poison for the main type. It has a couple of decent resistances in Grass and Bug, as well as a good one in Fighting. It also grants CAP10 immunity to Toxic, which will ruin its strategy if it gets hit by it, since its primarily defensive.

You're just as much better off going for SE hits rather than STAB as you are with Normal, since Poison is a crappy type on the offensive. Psychic attacks still aren't overly used despite the fact it hits Arghonaut and Revenankh SE, and we can easily add in Levitate in case the Ground weakness is that much of a deal.

 

[Anachronism]

I would like to say once again that if we want versatility we need to emphasize few weaks rather than resists.

 

[reachzero]

I disagree that keeping weaknesses to a minimum is the way to go; I believe that the only way to deal with very high powered attacks, such a boosted Close Combats or Surfs/Waterfalls is through resistances. On the other hand, which weaknesses the Pokemon has will make a big difference; if they are to very common attacking types, especially ones that cannot be covered up by a favorable ability, the Pokemon's ability to handle those Pokemon will be compromised. Considering that it is only weak to two types, one of which is almost nonexistent offensively (Psychic) while having useful resistances to Grass, Fighting and Bug, I think Poison Typing would be an excellent primary type.

 

[Engineer Pikachu]

Just looking at the name "Utility Counter", then seeing reachzero's post about being defensive, you know you want to have a main typing with minimum weaknesses and maximum resistances. While this type may not have the MOST resistances or the LEAST weaknesses, I feel that Water is the way to go. According to Bulbapedia, the average stats of all fully evolved pokemon are around 85 each, with the exception of speed, which is at 70. This means that the typing in general is extremely balanced (excluding speed, the largest deviation is 1.4 points, the difference between Defense (bigger) and Special Defense (smaller)), therefore it gives us a lot more freedom later on to do the bias towards special, physical, offensive, etc.

Like Fuzznip stated, while Grass is not very common, Electric may pose a larger problem, which can still be easily alleviated through a secondary typing. If we choose not do so, we can still utilize the 4 resistances that Pure Water brings to the table. While 4 may not seem like much (especially when comparing it to Steel's 12), the resistances are Fire, Water, Ice, and Steel. The former three are extremely common attacking types in Standard, and with Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Surf, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and more as high-powered moves that Water resists, it truly can use its few resistances and be extremely effective in walling. While Steel is not a common attacking type seen, most Steel type pokemon carry a Steel-typed move for STAB, like Jirachi [Iron Head/Flash Cannon], Bronzong [Gyro Ball], and Metagross [Meteor Mash].

So I guess that's why I support Water.

 

[Jandro]

I think most of the forum agreed that going a bit more on the defensive is the way to go. BUT i do not think maximazing resistances is the best idea either, since to do this we would need to consider Steel and steel has weaknesses to some of the most common attacks (ground, fire , fighting). Of course this is because of the dominance of steel in standard. Considering ground, fire, fighting, dragon and ice the most common type in attacks id vote for a type not weak to any of those. In the end my vote goes to Water since its not weak to any of those attacks and is versatile enough to work with.

 

[familyguyman]

Very happy with the Multitype banning. If we want to mess around with typing, we can do it in a more controlled and effective way through moves and ability. Good call.


As for main typing, Water seems the most obvious to me. It's a very robust type with only 2 weaknesses and good offensive coverage without being broken. It also pairs well with a variety of other types both offensively and defensively (Flying, Ground even Normal, Steel or Poison).

Pokemon to watch out for:
Scizor, Salamence, Tyranitar, Latias, Rotom-A, Heatran, Gyarados, Jirachi, Gengar, Swampert and Metagross (top 10 + Rotom-A)

As we can see, Water helps defend against, Scizor, Heatran, Gyarados, Jirachi, Swampert and Metagross with only Rotom-A causing problems. It also hits all but Salamence, Latias and Gyarados neutrally or better.

That's a very balanced but not overpowered breakdown.


Compare to Normal which is weak to none of them and helps against Rotom and Gengar but offensively it can't touch Gengar, Rotom and struggles against T-Tar, Scizor, Metagross and Heatran. That's just too...underwhelming. I also feel Normal is hard to match up with a secondary typing and if we don't add one, then we might end up making a Porygon2 clone on steroids, which may not be a bad thing but I feel we can be a bit more creative.

Poison suffers a similar fate as Normal, doing little defensively and nothing offensively. However, Poison does boast a nifty Toxic immunity. Poison also pairs well with some other types (such as Water >_>).


I think we can cross out Steel, Dragon, Grass, Bug, Fire, Rock, Ice and even Ground and Psychic for primary types due to too many key weaknesses.

 

[Apocalypse B-C]

Taking reachzero's argument and applying it to a different type; Fighting.

Like Poison, Fighting has only 2 weaknesses, and one of them is to a very rarely used attacking type in Psychic. I'm not certain how often Flying attacks are used in OU - unfortunately I don't get on enough to have loads of experience in these matters - but I'm fairly certain they crop up less than Poison's weak to Ground, and obviously the fairly-widespread EQ. In addition, Fighting adds a Stealth Rock resistance that makes switching in that much easier when necessary. While it lacks a resistance to itself (well, to Fighting) that adds to Poison's appeal, it has the same Bug resistance and adds a Dark resistance to help make up for it (most notable in taking half damage from Sucker Punch and Pursuit), as well as having a STAB that hits SE on a large portion of OU threats, most notably Heatran, Tyranitar, Lucario, and Blissey. It offers few weaknesses, one or two noteworthy resistances, and the possibility of effective STAB offense.

So all I'm saying is, if you support the reasoning behind a Poison typing (as I do), you could support Fighting for much the same basic reasons.

 

[darkmattr]

I think a main type of Fighting would work well. It's only weaknesses are Flying and Psychic, and it carries good resistances to Rock, Bug, and Dark. The main flying offensive attacks are brave bird, and air slash (Bounce too sometimes? but you can switch out of that). Psychic is even less offensive. The flying weakness could be covered by an electric sub type if it was felt the flying weakness was a problem. That would make it weak to ground but adds resistances to other electric attacks and steel types. (even then levitate could be added but I'm getting ahead of the process).

 

[Zari]

I would like to say once again that if we want versatility we need to emphasize few weaks rather than resists.

While this is certainly true, I feel that we can find a typing as a community with few weaks and loads of resistances. Normal has one weakness, very minimal, but only one immunity, Ghost. I would like to throw my support behind Water as the main typing for this reason.

It has a large amount of resistances (Water, Fire, Steel, and Ice) at the cost of two weaknesses (Grass, and Electric). I would much rather be able to switch into Heatran's fire blast on a resistance than a neutral hit. If this CAP is meant to be a Utility Counter, we want to take as little damage as we can upon the switch into battle, otherwise we might end up with merely a "Check" to various threats.

While Water might not have the most resistances for a mono typing (that honor is reserved for steel), it does have good synergy with those that do. It provides resistances for a variety of different weaknesses, meaning if we go with Water for the main typing, we have a good amount options for a secondary typing (if we decide to add one). Mono water has a good amount of merit as well; its grass weakness is somewhat negated by the face that there are only 3 OU grass types: Breloom, Celebi, and Roserade, all of which are rare in standard OU. Grass Knot could be migitated by giving CAP 10 a light weight. This really leaves us with only an electric weakness, which can be dealt with via movepool and or stats, teammates, etc.

If we want a Counter, we need resistances, otherwise we have merely a check that can't switch in if the user mispredicts. Even if we go with a "soft counter" route, it should still be able to switch into the mon it was customized to counter, without taking too much damage. Resists let us do that without having to make abnormally large defenses / HP.

We don't want weaknesses either, but having one more weakness for a total of two is worth it imo if it gains 3 more resists in the process.

 

[WaffleChan]

Agreeing with Anachronism. Throwing my support behind Normal and especially Poison. Neither of which offer great STAB, ensuring that our CAP can dedicate it's movepool to the countering of a certain Pokemon without having the offensive typing to easily dominate far reaches of the Metagame.

Normal has only one weakness and a modest resistance to Ghost, thus ensuring versatility. Poison on the other hand, has two weaknesses, only one of which is common in Ground but offers a resistance to both Fighting and Bug, helpful indeed. A Toxic immunity obviously doesn't hurt either.

Without attempting to poll jump. Giving a poison type levitate coupled with another ability, gives the user a choice between effectively countering an aspect of stall by absorbing toxic spikes or a handy immunity to ground type attacks. Something that should be considered when choosing it's type, and the possibilities it can bring.

And who says Steel's have all the fun? :P

Hide

Would also suggest Electric as a third choice but currently view it as an inferior option

 

[mrgrrrumpypants]

Steel

(Just for some thought provoking) When looking at the best defensive types, you come across Water, Ghost, Normal, Electric, and Steel. Water is too average to really counter much, water pokemon work better as status and STAB abusers. Ghost has that beloved spin-blocking ability. It also sports only 2 weaknesses, and holds 2 immunities but lacks good resists (bug/poison). Normal lacks any resists, but only has one immunity and one weakness making it the most balanced of the defensive types. Electric is also quite good, with only one weakness (though common), and three resistances. I feel that is definitely better than Normal as far as countering more of the metagame without relying heavily on stats. But the creme de la creme of defensive is steel. 11 resists and an immunity can not be ignored. 3 common weaknesses, but so what? There's so much that can mitigate those weaknesses it's ridiculous. When considering a utility defensive pokemon's type, you can not go for just balance you must think of the entire metagame. The best defensive pokemon, even when tailored for a specific pokemon, can be destroyed thanks to Choice items, unless they resist the attack.

So, STEEL is definitely the way to go with the concept, especially if we could add a second type or one of the abilities that mitigates weaknesses (trying to not poll jump while making my argument).

e.g. Steel/Ghost or Steel/Electric

Steel resists all of ghost's weaknesses.
Ghost is immune to fighting, which only leaves ground and fire. It may seem similar to the Steel/Psychic mix but it's definitely an interesting mix.

Steel/Electric is one of the best resistance type mixes. With three weaknesses, 13 resists, and (a little bit of a poll jump) the capability of adding a levitate option to mitigate that terrible double ground weakness, there's a good chance of being able to counter almost opposing pokemon.

Sorry for the rant, it's my first time. :)

 

[ShravanP]

I have been considering a few types that could work nicely here: Fighting, Water, and Poison. All three have their merits and disadvantages.

The main allure of Fighting for me is the SR resistance, which is crucial if we plan to absorb hits. Additionally, it's weak to two practically nonexistent attacking types which can be easily covered or simply ignored.

Poison is similar, but with a different set of resistances. Resistance to Fighting is the key factor here, as well as immunity to toxic spikes. It does come at the cost of a Ground weakness, but that's easily remedied through secondary typing or ability. The nice thing about Poison is that it can easily pair with a lot of other types and provide them with some useful resistances.

Water takes a different route, offering key resistances to very common attacking types (Ice, Fire, Steel, and Water), but remaining somewhat vulnerable to entry hazards and having an electric weakness. It also pairs beautifully with a LOT of other types, giving us a lot of wriggle room moving forward.

All three of these are wonderfully suited to Utility Counter, and it's really tough for me to pick one over the other. But after much thought, I've come to the conclusion that Water is best suited for this concept. The main reason is the set of resistances it offers (while having only 2 weaknesses), which, IMO, is more useful than SR, Fighting, or T-Spikes resistance.

 

[BlackRoija]

I'd like to see Normal/Ghost: resistances to bug and poison, three immunities in Normal, Fighting, and Ghost, along with only one weakness: Dark. The Ghost/Fighting attacking combo, often described as the best in the current metagame for coverage, only fails against the theoretical Normal/Ghost typing. However, Normal/Ghost isn't the best offensive typing, being completely walled by Steels. I'm also behind Normal/Poison(with Levitate as an ability, its only weakness would be the uncommon Psychic-type, and its offensive typing is mediocre)as well as Normal and Poison as mono typings for reasons explained already by WaffleChan.

Dark/Fightingis defensively a decent type, being weak only to Fighting and Flying if I'm not mistaken, but offensively it may be too powerful for the utility counter. Really I'm just dying for GF to make a D/F-type Poke. :P

Overall I'm going to support Normal or Poison.

 

[Solstice]

My support is also behind Water. The one thing that is of paramount importance for this concept is having a good typing offensively and defensively in my opinion. With two weaks and four resists, including the ever present Steel, it could work well to help counter various threats. I see that attributes of Poison and Normal, but I fell both lack the offensive prowess to make the concept bulky enough to remove threats as well as work from a defensive standpoint.

Also, Water works excellently with SO many other typings, Steel, Electric, Grass, and Flying to name a few. Normal and Poison I would support more as a secondary typing, but maybe not if the primary is water. If it was say Steel, I would maybe support Steel-Poison, although Levitate would be almost essential. But Water is still dominant on my list, with Steel coming in second.

 

[Zach]

Normal and especially Poison.

Overall I'm going to support Normal or Poison.

its a bold vote poll, vote for one

anyway, putting my support behind Water. Say you are building a team around a certain set up sweeper. You are going to think of things that prevent the sweep from running its course, and that list often looks something like this: wall n and m that resist the STAB, scarfers x, y, and z, and bulky waters. Its almost a cliche in competitive pokemon that bulky waters check almost everything, and the goal of this concept is to embody that cliche. Furthermore, Water is a type that has a great balance between defensive and offensive capabilities; with only two weaknesses defensively and excellent neutral coverage offensively (which is important, I believe, because I think that in order to check some threats you will need to have some offensive presence), Water makes a great type and it underlies right beneath Steels and Dragons on the typing hierarchy.

Given the right stats - and the stats are in our loving and caring hands - Water has the potential to be a great typing for a pokemon due to the resistances it provides (Steel, Fire, Ice, and Water) as well as its lack of weaknesses and the excellent neutral coverage that Surf / Hydro Pump / Waterfall receive; the ability to be a legitimate offensive and defensve threat is an important part to being able to check a majority of pokemon.

 

[Solstice]

its a bold vote poll, vote for one

anyway, putting my support behind Water. Say you are building a team around a certain set up sweeper. You are going to think of things that prevent the sweep from running its course, and that list often looks something like this: wall n and m that resist the STAB, scarfers x, y, and z, and bulky waters. Its almost a cliche in competitive pokemon that bulky waters check almost everything, and the goal of this concept is to embody that cliche. Furthermore, Water is a type that has a great balance between defensive and offensive capabilities; with only two weaknesses defensively and excellent neutral coverage offensively (which is important, I believe, because I think that in order to check some threats you will need to have some offensive presence), Water makes a great type and it underlies right beneath Steels and Dragons on the typing hierarchy.

Given the right stats - and the stats are in our loving and caring hands - Water has the potential to be a great typing for a pokemon due to the resistances it provides (Steel, Fire, Ice, and Water) as well as its lack of weaknesses and the excellent neutral coverage that Surf / Hydro Pump / Waterfall receive; the ability to be a legitimate offensive and defensve threat is an important part to being able to check a majority of pokemon.

Just so you know, its not the poll yet, people just tend to bold the typing they support to make it easier to notice.

But I completely agree with your points, Water is the perfect typing to cover a wide spectrum of Pokemon, since it's almost perfectly balanced between defense and offense. Hitting Fire, Rock, and Ground, and resisting Steel, Water, Fire, and Ice, it's perfect for defensive strength and offensive power.

I feel that Poison and Normal are too defensive, and Fighting it too offensive, because even though it only has two weaks, it only resists Rock, Bug, and Dark, which overall aren't as common as Steel and Fire, although a Stealth Rock resist is tempting.

Steel is also an excellent choice, but I find that it's lower on my list because there need to be certain specific circumstances for Steel to work as a STAB typing. Scizor has Technician and priority, Metagross has it's mammoth attack stat, and Jirachi has Serene Grace flinch hax with Iron Head. While Utility Counter should be able to pick out specific threats, it needs a broader spectrum than Steel IMO.

 

[Bucky]

This Pokemon is going to have to be able to absorb hits effectively and take down its opponent at the same time, therefore resistance is key. Normal typing only has one weakness which is very convenient, but in my opinion it doesn't carry any useful resistances at all. And my experience with Normal types leads me to believe that they aren't very bulky as far as defense goes, and defense is a major issue if this Pokemon is going to be switching into attacks.

Fighting is very alluring, especially when combined with a dual type. Given the right secondary typing, this Pokemon would carry plenty of resistances and be sturdy enough to survive more than a couple of hits--but there's no guarantee that its secondary typing will provide greater resistances and I'd rather not risk that.

I think that Water is the best way to go here. In general most Water Pokemon are pretty bulky and difficult to take down. The main worry here will be a limited movepool, but in my opinion the Water type pairs excellently with others and given the right secondary typing, this Pokemon's movepool will be versitile enough to satisfy its user.

 

[TEA_DEMON]

I'm voting Water here, but Poison would be a good choice too.

Both types have a good set of resistances (4 each) and both have only two weaknesses. Poison has that nagging Ground weaknesses which any Pokemon hates in this metagame, but imo an Electric weakness is almost equally bad. In terms of resistances, however, I feel Water has the edge over Poison. Resistance to Fire and Ice are priceless these days, since Dragons and Steels are everywhere. The additional Bullet Punch resistance helps its cause, and a Water resist is nice since that means we can make it able to counter the bulky Waters around. The other thing I like about Water over Poison is it is also a good attacking type, so we can make CAP10 balanced stats wise and not be overly concerned about its STAB attack being too easily walled (Steel's Poison immunity makes Poison less attractive).

 

[Bucky]

I'm thinking we should go with Poison for the main type. It has a couple of decent resistances in Grass and Bug, as well as a good one in Fighting. It also grants CAP10 immunity to Toxic, which will ruin its strategy if it gets hit by it, since its primarily defensive.

You're just as much better off going for SE hits rather than STAB as you are with Normal, since Poison is a crappy type on the offensive. Psychic attacks still aren't overly used despite the fact it hits Arghonaut and Revenankh SE, and we can easily add in Levitate in case the Ground weakness is that much of a deal.

No offense, but I think going with a Poison type for a Utility Counter wouldn't be a very good idea as just about every other Pokemon carries Earthquake. And even if it's combined with Ground typing, it'll carry even more weaknesses to very common moves, again Earthquake being one of them, and won't be able to switch in to various threats to many teams.

 

[Anachronism]

I have said it before and I will say it again. Giving us a good neutral stab makes us simply pair a good coverage move with our stab and call it good, which produces a standard set fairly easily. If we force it to have to do without stab we will see a greater amount of versatility in its sets. Normal provides this for us, as normal is a bad se coverage typing and normal types typically have very wide movepools while many other types do not. I think that to make this pokemon truly utility, but also make it so that it can be walled by the things it chooses not to counter, we need to give it a varied movepool with no good stab options to fall back on. Once again, normal offers exactly this, while water does not. I urge you to think outside the box here. Some things that appear to be weaknesses can be strengths when you consider the stats, movepool, and ability we can get away with giving CAP 10 in exchange for a sub-par offensive typing, as well as the natural strengths that the normal type offers. Normal typing gives options and a versatility that no other type offers.

I recognize the advantages of the water and steel typings especially, but for versatility normal is it.

I am sorry if I am a broken record, but I feel that people are not thinking openly enough here.

@Tanz: it is as if you didn't read what I wrote at all. I don't want it to get good neutral coverage. It should have to choose which specific pokes it wants to hit.