CAP 13 CAP 2 - Part 12 - Movepool Submissions

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@eriXtone: Dream eater is in the level up list, but Necturna can't learn any sleep inducing moves in your movepoo(outside of sketch) I would replace it with something like signal beam or future sight, a special, average move using paranormal powers(human can't fire signal beams!;D) Hope it helps!
 
I don't know what happened, but the latest spreadsheet messed up on my submission..^^ The following changes need to be changed. Thanks ahead!^^

My submission has Horn Leech, Stone Edge, Crunch, Work Up, Toxic Spikes, GrassWhistle, Taunt, Gravity, Trickroom, Ingrain, and Pain Split.

My submission has NO Night Shade, Night Slash, Super Fang, Haze, Moonlight/Synthesis/Morning Sun, and Switcheroo/Trick.

And yeah, I think I'm ready to make a final submission.
 
I decided to update my movepool again to include all the moves that every pokemon learnt, as I missed that out the first time. I removed a couple of unimportant moves to do so, but I've also hit the total move limit now, which seems bad, but there are plenty of people who haven't hit the limit that have basically done so for lack of including these moves (not judgin', I didn't really want to have them either).

I wanted both Rain Dance and Sunny Day, but decided to give her only Sunny Day, even if I prefer to think she's nocturnal. This is mostly because I think it'd be for worse consistency if I didn't give a grass type Sunny Day than if I didn't give a ghost type Rain Dance, especially since her primary type is Grass. Also, it seems contradictory to give her Moonlight but only the weather move that hurts it in tandem. I also gave her Giga Impact over Hyper Beam, 'cause I felt it fit with the physical theme I was going for, and I sadly removed Torment.

so yup, my final submission is actually final now... Good luck everyone!
 

Deck Knight

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Removed Grudge, put Pain Split up from Egg into Level-Up, added X-Scissor to TM movepool.

I'm satisfied with it now, it has all the competitive coverage and personal flavor I'm looking for.

@Spork Nocturnal has nothing to do with Sunny Day (The Japanese name is Clear Skies). The Oddish line are clearly nocturnal, as are Noctowl, Hypno, Murkrow, and Sneasel and they all have Sunny Day.

In anticipation the slate might be chosen before you can reply to my previous, I have scrapped X-Scissor so that the maximum VGMs (VGM and NC VGM) is 30. I still think X-Scissor is valuable to the Shift Gear set, but not so much as to risk having the movepool be illegal.
 
I've decided that I'll just redo the spreadsheet entirely when I pick my slate. In the meantime, I'm going to post some last minute notes on what I personally consider the most important moves for CAP 2. I know it's a little late in the game, but I need it to be said before I choose the slate, which will be in roughly 38 hours from this post. Note that I may slash some moves next to each other, which pretty much means "one or the other or all of them".

STABs
Leaf Blade / Seed Bomb
Giga Drain / Energy Ball / Grass Knot
Power Whip
Shadow Claw
Shadow Ball

Optionals
Horn Leech
Shadow Sneak
Night Shade

Most movepools have gotten this pretty dead on. I do not want to see any serious submission lack in the critical STABs that are necessary for CAP 2 to succeed. If you are missing one of the main moves, you pretty much will not get slated. The optionals are not moves I consider necessary, but are moves I highly favor and think would serve to only improve CAP 2 competitively in a healthy way. Many more bulky boosting sets will appreciate Horn Leech, and many powerful-but-slow sets will need the priority. Night Shade is pretty critical for defensive sets that lack the investment to be truly threatening otherwise. I'd personally like to see all of these moves present on CAP 2; these will be the backbone of its success.

Coverage Moves
Stone Edge

I pretty much consider this move required. It is so utterly necessary for the success of physical sets that omitting it pretty much neuters the physical aptitude of your movepool. I would accept substitutions such as Ice Fang, since it achieves a similar effect but is much weaker, but let it be known that I find Stone Edge really the ideal move here.

Healing Moves
Moonlight (or variants) / Pain Split

This is a pretty tough divide, but I generally favor Moonlight and its variants over Pain Split. Moonlight creates the ideal differential between "get risky healing and keep Sketch for something else" or "get reliable healing and use Sketch to get it". Pain Split with CAP 2's HP stat can potentially be better than Sketched moves like Recover, and may nullify that movepool experiment altogether. I do think CAP 2 needs at least one of these, so if you lack both, you're cutting your movepool short in a serious way.

Support Moves
Toxic Spikes
Substitute
Will-O-Wisp

Optionals
Ingrain
Gravity

I consider these the most important supporting moves that CAP 2 should get. A movepool without any one of these will be hard pressed to convince me to slate it. These moves are necessary for the full exploration of Sketch as a concept, offensively and defensively. I know I was sketchy on Substitute at one point, but now I am resolute that it is important for CAP 2. Fortunately, most submitted movepools have already gotten the message about the importance of these moves and included them. Ingrain is an optional because I think it single-handedly legitimizes Baton Pass as a Sketched move, whereas otherwise it'd never be used. I don't think it is necessary for a movepool to succeed, but I'd very much like to see it included so we could explore it more. Gravity is also a very cool move, and while it seems gimmicky, CAP 2 actually has a lot of tools that it can put to great use with Gravity. I think as far as gimmicks go, this is the most cool and deserves a shot. Who knows, maybe it'll be legit.

Every other move I leave up to the determination of the movepool authors themselves. While this leaves a lot to interpretation, I think author interpretation is important for a diverse and healthy slate. I don't want to be making the movepools for you guys. Good luck and good job so far!
 
Hello,
I was just updating when I saw this and I think I've updated to your tastes.

I've included calm mind, giga drain and stone edge that are on the spreadsheet. Ingrain I have reconsidered on and is also in the movepool.

Also my post has now included how many moves and VGM's there are in the movepool entirety. Additionally there is now a summary.
 

Bughouse

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I have also updated my movepool to satisfy your comment, R_D. While I may not necessarily agree on everything being so necessary, I don't view the inclusion of any of those moves I did not previously have as harmful. I took a little bit and reflected on whether the moves I had left out for fear of their detrimental effect and have come to the conclusion that I need to stop Theorymonning. I always end up at some end result that seems totally irrational, oblivious to me. Therefore I have listened and accommodated requirements/suggestions.

My Movepool now also contains Seed Bomb, Stone Edge, Toxic Spikes, and Gravity. I did not remove any moves to make room for those new moves, as I technically did have the space to do so, though I wish my movepool were a little smaller.

Also, Perish Song still is not listed as included in my movepool on the spreadsheet, so that needs to be included with these other updates.
 
I won't add Night Shade and Ingrain, but do you really think I ought to have Seed Bomb? I already have Horn Leech. Don't see much point.
 
Horn Leech is as much a reliable physical STAB as Seed Bomb could ever be, if not better. I merely did not want to mandate the inclusion of Horn Leech in movepools because I can understand where people are coming from. I definitely agree in it being a satisfactory physical Grass STAB for CAP 2.
 

Deck Knight

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Finished up by removing Astonish from Level-Up and putting Ominous Wind in it's place from Egg, then adding Gravity to Egg. I agree Gravity is fascinating for what it can do.

Have a question Dusk. I'm looking over my movepool, and after adding up everything in the VGM list I have 31, but 4 of these are Non-Competitive and included for flavor (Return/Frustration, Facade, Payback specifically). I don't want to run afoul of the limits so should I scrap one of these to fit within the limit or cut something else (maybe X-Scissor, but I think the Shift Gear set is hurt without it).
 
@eriXtone: Dream eater is in the level up list, but Necturna can't learn any sleep inducing moves in your movepoo(outside of sketch) I would replace it with something like signal beam or future sight, a special, average move using paranormal powers(human can't fire signal beams!;D) Hope it helps!
I took this into consideration, changing this and a few other things.

Added Seed Bomb as an egg move, replaces Dream Eater with Moonlight, changed Level 1 Move: Absorb to Ingrain. Made a couple other small changes.
 

Korski

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Wow, thanks RD for the feedback; it's nice when there's actually discussion from non-movepool submitters in this thread. I've done a final look over my submission, taking into account the points RD brought up, and changed only two things: I've added Horn Leech to the Egg movepool, and I have removed Pain Split, which I was anxious about including in the first place until RD offered a glimmer of hope that it might not automatically disqualify my movepool with voters. My Submission is now finally ready I think (I hope).
 
Added Night Shade to the level up movepool

Unless there are any more suggestions/queries with the movepool I think It's done, though a little more packed than I originally wanted it to be.
 
@srk1214: maybe it is nice to add pursuit to your movepool, to make the very unfamous screech/pursuit combo made by me! (screech causes switches and pursuit gets brutal power! Currently only Skuntank is a good user of this and it would nice if Necturna can do this to) Since it doesn't get STAB it would hurt your movepool that much.
 
Final Submission

Reasons to Vote for This Movepool (Highlights)

Competitive
-Stone Edge, Toxic Spikes, Super Fang, Power Whip, Seed Bomb, Giga Drain, Will-O-Wisp, Perish Song, and Calm Mind are Included.
-Horn Leech, Leaf Blade, Meteor Mash, Elemental Fangs, Magic Coat, Weather, and Moonlight are Excluded.
-Moderate egg move restrictions. (Amporphous + Plant egg groups)
-All movesets are given an opportunity to learn Sketch.

Flavor
-Sketch is a tutor. After learning Sketch, a ribbon is attached to prevent Sketch from being learned again.
-Telepathy + Ally Switch sounds cool.
-False Swipe + Sketched Spore would make it an in-game catching goddess
-Learns Sweet Kiss + Attract so it can be your waifu.

Total VGMs: 30
Total Moves: 51


Very good moves (VGM) are in bold
STAB attacks have an exclamation point (!)

Level Up
-Vicegrip
-Scary Face
5 Bite
9 Spite
13 Poison Fang
16 Shadow Sneak!
22 Hex!
27 Crunch
34 Attract
40 Extrasenroy
47 Power Whip!
52 Super Fang
59 Destiny Bond

VGMs: 6
Total Moves: 13


TMs / HMs
04 Calm Mind!
06 Toxic
09 Venoshock
10 Hidden Power
12 Taunt
17 Protect

21 Frustration*
22 SolarBeam!
27 Return*
29 Psychic
30 Shadow Ball!
32 Double Team
36 Sludge Bomb
41 Torment
42 Facade
44 Rest
45 Attract
46 Thief
48 Round
51 Ally Switch
53 Energy Ball!
54 False Swipe
61 Will-O-Wisp
65 Shadow Claw!
71 Stone Edge
85 Dream Eater
86 Grass Knot!
90 Substitute
HM 1 Cut

VGMs: 17 (18)*
Total Moves: 30


Egg Moves
Sweet Kiss (Buneary)
Seed Bomb! (Various)
Giga Drain! (Various)
Pain Split (Various)
Toxic Spikes (Roselia)
Trick (Various)
Perish Song (Misdreavous, Gastly)

VGMs : 6
Total Moves: 7

Notable Legal / Illegal combos:

Legal
Seed Bomb + Giga Drain + Pain Split or Toxic Spikes
Perish Song + Giga Drain

Illegal
Pain Split or Trick + Toxic Spikes


Tutor Attacks
Sketch

VGMs: 1
Total Moves: 1

Sketch is a Tutor Attack.

After being tutored Sketch, a ribbon is attached to the Necturna preventing Sketch from being tutored again.


Simple, believable, and does not infringe on other aspects of Necturna's movepool.


Notable Changes from last submission:
-Psyshock was removed (Doesn't do much for the concept and no Ghost types actually get Psyshock, lol)
-Super Fang was added to the level up moves.
 
Ugh! I had a last minute out-of-state demand made of me, so I'm currently in PA trying to sort something out and will have incredibly limited access to it for the next few days. I will be back in MD within 3 days at most, so I guess in the meantime I will extend the duration of the time that you can work by until I get back. When I get back, I'll just close the thread without a duration warning, since I think this has been going on for a goodly enough while. Take this as your last warning before closing, so if you have any last-minute changes to make, do them ASAP! Good luck!
Deck Knight said:
Have a question Dusk. I'm looking over my movepool, and after adding up everything in the VGM list I have 31, but 4 of these are Non-Competitive and included for flavor (Return/Frustration, Facade, Payback specifically). I don't want to run afoul of the limits so should I scrap one of these to fit within the limit or cut something else (maybe X-Scissor, but I think the Shift Gear set is hurt without it).
I think X-Scissor is the most expendable of the moves in your movepool, so I agree. I can't really endorse going over the limits, even in lieu of so many non-competitive VGMs, because where do I draw the line after that? Remember that the 'required' VGMs may not be required for all movepools. I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep if you removed Frustration, for instance, but that's a decision that only you can make for your own movepool. It may or may not hurt your movepool's likelihood to be voted on, but hey, what do I know? :P

If you have any last second questions for me, I may be able to sporadically check this site over the next day or so before I close this for good. Ask away, but I can't guarantee answers. Cheers.
 
Okay, I got back a day earlier than I anticipated. That said, there hasn't been a post in this thread since my last, and so I will take it that everyone has completed everything that they needed to and is just waiting on me. For that reason, I'll close this thread, fix up the spreadsheet, select my slate, and move to poll. This may take a few hours because, well, that spreadsheet, but have no fear; I'm working on it.
 
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