Wouldn't Being able to see ANY of the opponents moves, let alone there strongest, be competitive? I can see some forewarn bait traps being laid around here somehow....
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CAP 13 CAP 2 - Part 5 - Flavor Ability Discussion
- Thread starter Rising_Dusk
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Wouldn't Being able to see ANY of the opponents moves, let alone there strongest, be competitive? I can see some forewarn bait traps being laid around here somehow....
I'm going to agree with FlareBlitz and throw my support behind Forewarn and Anticipation. They seem to fit quite well flavor wise and are interesting, but not incredibly useful abilities. I would also like to support Unnerve, though the point brought up about it stopping Lum Berry are a bit worrying.
I would also like to state my opposition to Cute Charm. Sure, it could potentially be cute, but in general that is more of a creepy Pokemon, deserving of something like Unnerve. You wouldn't give Ursaring Cute Charm just because it is possible for it to be cute.
I would also like to state my opposition to Cute Charm. Sure, it could potentially be cute, but in general that is more of a creepy Pokemon, deserving of something like Unnerve. You wouldn't give Ursaring Cute Charm just because it is possible for it to be cute.
Noted. Even so, Dual Screens is just one of deo-s's sets, and not even the most popular one. Deo-s usually cleans up late-game or lays down hazards. I still don't think Infiltrator's negligible competitive ability would be a problem.
Levitate is most definitely a competitive ability.
Since the choice is non-competitive ability, I like Poison Point, Unnerve, and Overgrow. Why? They all fit the current design of a thorny vine-woman-ghost.
Since the choice is non-competitive ability, I like Poison Point, Unnerve, and Overgrow. Why? They all fit the current design of a thorny vine-woman-ghost.
I really, really like the suggestion of Forewarn. I think it is definitely negligibly competitive for CAP 2, and matches the Pokemon well for pretty much the reasoning capefeather posted. It gives a telepathic vibe that doesn't make you think it should be a Psychic-type, which is very awesome.
After some consideration, I think Hyper Cutter is a bit too competitive for CAP 2. I think Salamence will be a pretty good check against CAP 2 even if it's not on our dedicated check list, and would like Intimidate to still be a fairly lethal weapon against CAP 2.
After some consideration, I think Hyper Cutter is a bit too competitive for CAP 2. I think Salamence will be a pretty good check against CAP 2 even if it's not on our dedicated check list, and would like Intimidate to still be a fairly lethal weapon against CAP 2.
Hahaha, agreed. I also like the suggestion of Flower Gift, Forewarn, or Anger Point. I really don't think Cute Charm fits, though.
Guys, please try to explain your suggestions within the context of CAP 2's flavor. I am not going to slate something because a lot of people like it if I'm not convinced of its relevance to CAP 2's flavor, so you really need to sell me on it here! Just saying "I support X ability" is insufficient and liable to get ignored or even deleted.
As regards Cute Charm, please remember that not all Pokemon with Cute Charm are necessarily what you may call "cute". Stuff like Igglybuff definitely isn't (although that's a matter of taste). It simply means that the Pokemon seems to have a friendship fixation (and there are an alarmingly large number of Pokemon that fit this bill). The lore helps here as well:
This screams Cute Charm if nothing else. Wanting a good friend? How else does a flytrap girl grab a friend except by enchanting them? Not the best explanation, admittedly, but don't just say that Cute Charm doesn't fit simply because you yourselves don't find it cute. That doesn't seem to be why the ability is given to Pokemon; at least, it doesn't have to be.
Plus... how can you not find the supporting art cute...
Or maybe I'm just weird, who knows?
This screams Cute Charm if nothing else. Wanting a good friend? How else does a flytrap girl grab a friend except by enchanting them? Not the best explanation, admittedly, but don't just say that Cute Charm doesn't fit simply because you yourselves don't find it cute. That doesn't seem to be why the ability is given to Pokemon; at least, it doesn't have to be.
Plus... how can you not find the supporting art cute...
Or maybe I'm just weird, who knows?
if this is going to be a genderless pokemon like was hintedi n the previous thread, then cute charm would be useless. Levitate seems an obvous choice as well since the pokemon is floating however Rising Dusk pretty much ruled that out. Pressure is also a stereotypical ghost ability so that could be an idea. Keen Eye also seems to fit the design well.
Forewarn for obvious reasons.
She is a /shrine maiden/, meaning she probably had to help people solve shit when she was alive.
She can channel spirits to attack or do whatever else, and aside from being connected with the spritiual world, she's basically a priestess of Pokemon. The offering to channel another's spirits seems like soemthing she could easily use to extrapolate information about their next move from~
I know we aren't meant to discuss the secondary ability yet, but IMO that one should probably reflect her creepy appeareance. I.e. I don't think Cute CHarm should make the cut as an ability.
She is a /shrine maiden/, meaning she probably had to help people solve shit when she was alive.
She can channel spirits to attack or do whatever else, and aside from being connected with the spritiual world, she's basically a priestess of Pokemon. The offering to channel another's spirits seems like soemthing she could easily use to extrapolate information about their next move from~
I know we aren't meant to discuss the secondary ability yet, but IMO that one should probably reflect her creepy appeareance. I.e. I don't think Cute CHarm should make the cut as an ability.
If I'm not mistaken, RD said that he wanted to try out the idea of a mono-gendered pokemon.
When discussing about weather or not it fits the term "cute" we have to realize that a lot of people will be divided on what is and what is not "cute", unlike say Levitate (for the purpose of the comparison, pretend that Levitate is still on the table and that Cap2 floats).
What would you think of an ability with the same effect as Cute Charm but with a different name that doesn't hint at cuteness but at some other means of attracting? Something like Seduction or Allure maybe?
If there's some kind of rule against taking an already-existing ability and renaming it, then ignore this post.
If there's some kind of rule against taking an already-existing ability and renaming it, then ignore this post.
I don't really get Cute Charm in relation to this CAP. Nothing cute should be able to chew off your leg with its dress while you hug it. I really feel like Forewarn or Infiltrator fit the art concept better and will be more useful while still being moderately useless. Forewarn gives it this aura of prediction and psychic powers, while Infiltrator makes it seem deceptive and dangerous.
Aftermath
While you are killing pokemon, this is an entirely useless ability. When you are killed, the things killing you (hydriegon, heatran, skarm, jirachi) are pokemon that consistently keep their HP up, and it would rarely pseudo revenge anything. It makes sense with CAP2 being a ghost. Just a almost always useless ability that seems a bit cool
While you are killing pokemon, this is an entirely useless ability. When you are killed, the things killing you (hydriegon, heatran, skarm, jirachi) are pokemon that consistently keep their HP up, and it would rarely pseudo revenge anything. It makes sense with CAP2 being a ghost. Just a almost always useless ability that seems a bit cool
Quite true. However, they are all what you might call "Pink" and "Fluffy" (or at least one of the two. Though "Puffy" might actually be a better word). Maybe if that was the case I might think differently, but this design is gives off more of a creepy vibe than a cute one.
I think the difference of opinion here is in the interpretation of cute charm. When I think of cute charm I think of a Pokemon becoming attracted to the opponent because it is cute, not the opponent doing something to trick the foe into falling in love. If it does not just have a plain flat out cute design (or relation to such a Pokemon if you really dislike Igglybuff), then I just don't think the ability fits.
I would argue that Flower Gift, Aftermath, and Infiltrator are a bit too competitive. Flower Gift adds a weather element to CAP2 by raising its Attack and Special Defense under sunlight, which I believe we have deemed undesirable for this CAP. Aftermath has the nice effect of breaking through Multiscale or Sturdy as a last resort and can give quite an advantage if given to a great Pokemon. Finally, giving a Pokemon that loves to Sketch boosting moves Infiltrator is a questionable idea; screens should go a long way in assisting the rampage that boosting sets will incur.
I'd like to throw support behind Forewarn for the channeling reasoning that has been listed. While it is almost the exact same ability as Anticipation, the wording of the former is much larger nod toward channeling spirits than the split-second reaction feel that Anticipation invokes.
I'd like to throw support behind Forewarn for the channeling reasoning that has been listed. While it is almost the exact same ability as Anticipation, the wording of the former is much larger nod toward channeling spirits than the split-second reaction feel that Anticipation invokes.
I'm sorry, but nothing about Yilx's design is cute (not that this is in any way a bad thing) or "kawaii" (a word that makes me want to vomit with rage. Freakin' weeaboos.). I am rabidly against Cute Charm for this reason. Forewarn would be my choice for the ethereal aspect of it.
Telepathy makes the most flavor sense for this cutie by a long shot. How else does one talk to spirits? They don't have ears beacuse they're DEAD.
I think that Anticipation would be better for CAP2 than Forewarn because Forewarn reveals the strongest attack an opponent has, while Anticipation reveals one move that hits super-effectively. I think Forewarn is less useful because in most cases, you can already predict the strongest attack an opponent has, making Forewarn a completely useless choice. Also, if this is strictly a flavor ability, I can imagine the shuddering action of Anticipation quite well with Yilx's art.
I thought cute charm would fit.
Other than that, forewarn seems like a good fit. The ability for a shrine maiden to have premonitions of the future gives forewarn a place.
Someone also suggested pressure
Pressure seems to fit as well, according to Yilx's designs.
There is already plenty that give boosting CAP2 sets trouble besides screens. Intimidate, Heatran, Jirachi, Hydreigon, Sucker Punch, burn, paralysis, revenge killing, et cetera, all stand in the way of a boosting CAP2. Screens, which are mainly seen on hyper offensive teams to give their sweepers the ability to set up, shouldn't be one of the many things that stop CAP2 in its tracks.
Speaking of which, Dusk said over IRC that he wasn't convinced that Infiltrator is a solid flavor ability, so allow me to state my case some more.
One definitions of Infiltrator:
This implies deception, which ghosts typically excel in. In addition, most of the arguments for cute charm refer to our mon's lore, that it deceives prey by alluring it. (paraphrasing here) That does refer to deception as one of CAP2's key traits, pointing directly to Infiltrator. To those who think that CAP2 isn't cute enough for cute charm or reads cute charm itself differently, Infiltrator is a solid alternative as an ability that represents CAP2's ability to deceive opponents into letting down their guard, playing directly into our ghost's hands.
Furthermore, why should a ghost, defined as not having a material body, have to be hampered by material barriers like reflect and light screen? By its very nature, a ghost like CAP2 should be easily able to bypass such screens. Thus, Infiltrator.
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