CAP 13 CAP 2 - Part 9 - Attacking Moves Poll

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Rising_Dusk

Rising_Dusk

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This poll will determine which of the controversial moves from the Attacking Moves Discussion thread will be allowed for CAP 2's movepool. Note that if a controversial move is voted to be allowed, that does not guarantee that it will be on movepools. If a move is voted to be disallowed, then it will not be allowed on any of the submitted movepools. The controversial moves we will be voting on are listed below. Spell the move and its qualifying allow/disallow as you see it below when posting. Do not vote to both allow and disallow the same move, as that is nonsensical and will result in your vote being deleted.
Allow Power Whip
Disallow Power Whip
Allow ThunderPunch
Disallow ThunderPunch
Allow Ice Punch
Disallow Ice Punch
​
This poll operates on the multiple bold voting standard, which is detailed here. A typical vote may look like the following:
First Entry I Like
Second Entry I Like
Third Entry I Like

If the voter wishes, he may post comments on his vote below the actual vote. As with IRV or normal bold voting, only the votes themselves should be bold and none of the supplementary text should be bold.
Click to expand...
Please post only your votes in this thread. Do not respond to other posts, or your posts will be moderated and you warned. If you feel compelled to say something in your own vote, you may still do so, but don't try to incite a discussion. Keep discussion to #cap.

This poll will be open for 24 hours.

CAP 2 thus far:

Name: Necturna

Korski said:
Concept: Sketch Artist

Description: A Pokemon that learns Sketch, once, and everything that goes along with that.

Justification:

In terms of uniqueness, I think that few existing Pokemon can match DPP Smeargle, an otherwise laughably worthless Pokemon trolling OU with access to every trick in the book (or at least 4 of them) but also affecting the metagame greatly by becoming a top threat in the lead metagame. This Pokemon will borrow some of that uniqueness by learning the move Sketch and thus having access to ONE surprise/strategic/gutshot bonus move to supplement its pre-existing movepool. Being otherwise competently built (read: usable stats), this Poke could be a top threat or specialist for reasons we can't even predict yet.

Questions To Be Answered:

  • How will a Poke that has access to any one move out of all the moves in the game affect common battling tactics, namely prediction, scouting, and switching?
  • Which Sketch moves will become most common on this Poke's best sets? Does Sketchmon's success rely on hiding that secret Sketch move until just the right moment or can it succeed with predictably powerful moves like Spore, Spikes, Hurricane, Shell Smash, etc.?
  • Does this unique and powerful access to moves need to be counterbalanced elsewhere in the Pokemon's design? If so, then to what degree?
  • What kind of impact can Sketchmon have on teambuilding in terms of being able to patch holes with common utility moves like Rapid Spin or Toxic Spikes?
Explanation: The key here is that we have a lot of freedom to construct a unique Pokemon while staying within the confines of the concept. Typing, stats, abilities, and even most of the movepool are completely fair game so long as the Poke learns Sketch only once along the way and that we keep that in mind during previous steps. Now, this doesn't mean the CAP process will be directionless; Rising Dusk is pretty well organized and good at keeping discussions focused, and the concept itself has firm grounding in Smeargle's precedent. What's really being studied with this concept is movepool diversity and effectiveness, so it should have the most effect on the movepool process, where movepool creators will have to carefully balance their Sketchmon's actual movepool with the possibility of adding any one other move to the list. In terms of the metagame, there is no doubt in my mind that throwing a wildcard like this into the mix will strongly affect the metagame.
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Focus: Bulky Offense
Typing: Grass / Ghost
Stats: 64 HP / 120 Atk / 100 Def / 85 SpA / 120 SpD / 81 Spe
Abilities: Forewarn / Telepathy (DW)
Primary Checks: Heatran, Jirachi, Skarmory, Hydreigon
Gender: Female

tl;dr: Quack! (Attacking moves, my dear Watson.)
 
Rising_Dusk

Rising_Dusk

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Voting first so people aren't confused about what a vote should look like, after which I'll open the thread to others.

Allow Power Whip
Disallow ThunderPunch
Disallow Ice Punch

I feel that the Electric- and Ice-type coverage is more than CAP 2 seriously needs and that we've met basic sweeping requirements without them. Too much versatility is bad. I do think Power Whip is important for +1 boosting sets, and the difference between Power Whip and Leaf Blade for +2 sets is marginally less significant. Note that yes, Power Whip does 88.3% - 104% to Hydreigon at +2, but recall that Stone Edge is actually more powerful (100 BAP vs. 90 BAP). Gliscor is another relevant OU KO, but at the same time, Gliscor can't really do all that much back anyway. Beyond that, Power Whip doesn't do too much.
 
Spork

Spork

Allow Power Whip
Allow ThunderPunch
Allow Ice Punch

Power Whip actually legitimises a lot of physical sets, such as Shift Gear and Choice Band (to an extent) - I really think a firm and powerful STAB is pretty important for a pokemon whose sets can change so drastically, so that whether we're supporting with Spore or Spikes, setting up with Gear Change or just simply attacking, we can still be be 'bulky offense'. That's not to say Leaf Blade isn't strong, but Power Whip hardly breaks Necturna and really only has positive attributes.

ThunderPunch and Ice Punch are practically irrelevant imo. TPunch can 2HKO Skarm, unlike TFang, but Ice Punch doesn't really gain you any notable KOs over its Fang.
 
bugmaniacbob

bugmaniacbob

Was fun while it lasted
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Allow Power Whip
Disallow ThunderPunch
Disallow Ice Punch

Dusk summed it up far more succinctly than I ever could. Emphasis on "succinctly".
 
Raikaria

Raikaria

Disallow Power Whip
Disallow ThunderPunch
Disallow Ice Punch

I get the feeling I might be the only one still sceptical on Power Whip, but, I don't care if I stand alone. There's more to worry about than additional KO's at +2, but addittional KO's at +1 and even +0 [Using Sketch for, say, Sacred Fire to butcher Steels]
 

FlareBlitz

Relaxed nature. Loves to eat.
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Allow Power Whip
Disallow ThunderPunch
Disallow Ice Punch

I think a lot of people are underestimating how powerful ThunderPunch could end up being on a Swords Dance set (which hasn't been seeing a lot of discussion). With a Life Orb, Necturna does 74.9% - 88.6% to absolute max/max+ Skarmory, which means it definitely dies every time if it follows up with Brave Bird (due to recoil). Add this to the fact that many Skarmory run some speed or special defense and one of our main counters becomes extremely shaky. Definitely disallow on that one.

Ice Punch is the same deal, offering clean KOs on Hydreigon and Dragonite at +1 (choice band or shift gear). While I am tempted to allow it because it helps against certain grass types, ghost coverage gets Celebi anyway and I'm okay with Tangrowth being a solid check to physical variants since it gets maimed by special variants.
 
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