CAP 24 CAP 24 - Part 9 - Full Movepool Submissions

[Quanyails]

This is the thread for making full movepools for our upcoming CAP, CAP 24! At the conclusion of this thread, mxmts will be compiling a slate of Final Submissions for the community to vote on, and the winning submission will become the official movepool for CAP 24.

We recently made significant changes to our policies regarding movepools, so do not assume that rules from past CAP projects apply. See this Policy Review thread for more information about the new rules.

We've had a discussion of movesets, which identified the competitive movesets we intend to be the most viable in standard OU play. Please see the concluding post in that thread, as well as the following poll, for more information on those movesets.

The following rules apply to all Movepool Submissions:

• The movepool can contain a maximum of 75 total moves. You may have less than or equal to 75 moves, but not more.
• There are no longer any limits to the number of Restricted Moves, as mentioned in articles on the CAP subsite and past CAP projects.
• All movepools must have all the Mandatory Moves listed below.
• No movepool may contain any of the Banned Moves listed below.
• Any move not listed as Banned is provisionally allowed.
• The Movepool Leader (mxmts) and Topic Leader (Drapionswing) may add Banned moves during the course of this thread. If that happens, there will be ample notification in the thread, and you will have the opportunity to remove those moves from your movepool prior to final submissions.

Mandatory Moves

Final Movepool Submissions must include all of these moves, and they cannot be Event Moves. Submissions that don't have all these moves will not be considered for slating.

Energy Ball
Flame Burst
Focus Blast
Healing Wish
Leaf Storm
Light Screen
Moonblast
Shore Up
Solar Beam
Synthesis
Wish

The "universal" TM/Tutor List for fully evolved Pokemon:
Attract, Confide, Double Team, Facade, Frustration, Giga Impact, Hidden Power, Hyper Beam, Protect, Rest, Return, Round, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Snore, Swagger, Toxic

Banned Moves

These moves are banned from inclusion in Final Submissions. Movepools that include any of these moves will not be considered for slating.

This list is subject to minor changes along the course of the thread.

The follow moves are all banned:

Legendary signature moves (see here)
Physical Fire-type moves with at least 120 BP (Flare Blitz, Heat Crash)
Special Fire-type moves with more than 70 BP
Competitive (More than 60 BP) Ground, Psychic and Rock Coverage except for Dream Eater
Sleep-inducing moves
Ancient Power
Calm Mind
Celebrate
Defog
Encore
Fiery Dance
Growth
Hold Hands
Leech Seed
Knock Off
Mirror Coat
Nasty Plot
Nature Power
Nature's Madness
Parting Shot
Rapid Spin
Reflect
Scald
Spikes
Stealth Rock
Sticky Web
Strength Sap
Stun Spore
Tail Glow
Tailwind
Taunt
Thunder
Thunderbolt
Thunder Wave
Toxic Spikes
Trick Room
U-Turn
Volt Switch
Water Spout
Weather Ball
Will-O-Wisp

Note that any move which is competitively inferior to a mandatory move is allowed as an exception to the bans above unless explicitly stated otherwise. This includes things such a weaker versions of mandatory STAB and coverage moves.

Click here for a general guide to making Gen 6 Movepools. (outdated but still useful)
Click here for the list of Restricted Moves referenced above.

While this is a submission thread, discussion on Work-In-Progress (WIP) and Final Submissions is encouraged so the community can make an informed decision during the polling stage.

This thread will be open for submissions and discussion as soon as mxmts posts his opening remarks.

-----------------

CAP 24 So Far

Topic Leader: Drapionswing

Topic Leadership Team:
SHSP: Typing Leader
Drew: Ability Leader
reachzero: Stats Leader
mxmts: Movepool Leader

Concept:

• Name - Snow or Shine (or Sand)
• Description - A Pokemon that abuses 2 weather conditions for different effects
• Justification - Currently in CAP, there is only one form of weather that is really worth using: rain, and only one really type of weather abuser: offensive sweeper. This concept means to address both of these issues by creating a new niche for two weather conditions. This concept would fill the archetype of a weather abuser, but I feel it also fits into the Actualization category as it would also aim to create a new role for a weather abuser for 1 or more different weather conditions.
• Questions To Be Answered
  • Why are hail, sun, and sand underrepresented in the current metagame?
  • What makes rain the best weather condition currently?
  • How can this CAP encourage the use of other weather conditions? What do hail, sun, and/or sand need? Sweepers? Setters? Walls?
  • What weather effects are underutilized? How can we successfully use these effects?
  • How can one Pokemon utilize different weather conditions for different effects and sets?
  • Should this Pokemon be able to function outside of weather-based teams? If so, what niche would it need to fulfill? If it sets it's own weather, is it enough to abuse the weather condition on its own?
• Explanation - For those who don't fully see how a not-sweeper weather abuser could work, take Lileep in LC for example. Lileep, mainly back in BW and XY as sand is quite uncommon in SM, is on most sand teams, as it can abuse its Rock-typing to boost Special Defense, the passive damage from sand, and its access to Recover and Toxic to become a weather abusing wall. Another possible interaction would be running Ferrothorn on rain teams to semi-nullify its Fire weakness. Not only typings are underexplored though! There are many moves, items, and of course abilities that can be used to abuse different weather conditions in a way that no Pokemon really does currently.

Pokemon we want to beat:

Sun:
Heatran, Crawdaunt, Latios, Mega Latios, Pajantom, Zygarde,

Sand:
Heatran, Landorus-T, Tapu Bulu, Tomohawk


Pokemon we want to pressure/threaten:
Mega Mawille, Cawmodore, Ash Greninja, Kartana, Marowak-Alola, Celesteela

Pokemon we want to check Cap24:
Fire-Types: Volcarona, Marowak-Alola, Pyroak(Sand), Blacephalon, Victini
Steel Types: Mega Scizor, Excadrill, Magearna(Sand)
Poison Types: Plasmanta, Mollux, Crucibelle, Mega Crucibelle, Toxapex, Mega Venusaur(Sun)
Priority Users: Kitsunoh, Mega Pinsir, Mega Scizor, Syclant, Cawmodore
Other: Mega Alakazam, Hawlucha

Pokemon we want to counter Cap24:
Mega Venusaur(Sand)
Mega Charizard Y
Pyroak(Sun)
Chansey

Typing: Grass/Fairy
Abilities: Drought/Trace
Stats: 92 HP / 63 Atk / 97 Def / 124 SpA / 104 SpD / 96 Spe

Weight: ≥500 kg

 

[Mx]

Hello and welcome to movepool submissions, where we'll decide the final details on which moves CAP 24 will have at its disposal.

Remember that this is mostly a flavor stage, and therefore, if you choose to include a competitive move, you must provide a good explanation for why did you think it is relevant enough to include it on your movepool. Movepools that blatanly include without a good reason will be disqualified. If you have any doubts about about any particular moves, or think that certain ones should be banned/unbanned, please post your reasoning below.

Now that the moves poll is done, I'd like to make two minor changes to the banlist:

-Allow special Fire moves with less than 70 BP. Now that Flame Burst is required, weaker alternatives are no longer competitively relevant, and as such, are allowed.

-Disallow Thunder Wave. While there wasn't any discussion on this move before, we chose to ban Stun Spore, a weaker alternative to TW, so for consistency reasons, this move will be banned too.

Finally, here's a basic template for a movepool submission to make it easier to create one (shout outs to Reviloja753 for the idea):

Hide

Level Up

1-
10-
20-
30-
40-
50-
60-
70-
80-
90-
100-

Egg Moves

Egg Groups: [Egg Group 1]/[Egg Group 2]
-
-
-

TMs

TM 01 Work Up
TM 02 Dragon Claw
TM 05 Roar
TM 06 Toxic
TM 07 Hail
TM 08 Bulk Up
TM 09 Venoshock
TM 10 Hidden Power
TM 11 Sunny Day
TM 13 Ice Beam
TM 14 Blizzard
TM 15 Hyper Beam
TM 16 Light Screen
TM 17 Protect
TM 18 Rain Dance
TM 19 Roost
TM 20 Safeguard
TM 21 Frustration
TM 22 Solar Beam
TM 23 Smack Down
TM 27 Return
TM 28 Leech Life
TM 30 Shadow Ball
TM 31 Brick Break
TM 32 Double Team
TM 34 Sludge Wave
TM 36 Sludge Bomb
TM 37 Sandstorm
TM 39 Rock Tomb
TM 40 Aerial Ace
TM 41 Torment
TM 42 Facade
TM 43 Flame Charge
TM 46 Thief
TM 47 Low Sweep
TM 48 Round
TM 49 Echoed Voice
TM 51 Steel Wing
TM 52 Focus Blast
TM 53 Energy Ball
TM 54 False Swipe
TM 56 Fling
TM 57 Charge Beam
TM 58 Sky Drop
TM 59 Brutal Swing
TM 60 Quash
TM 62 Acrobatics
TM 63 Embargo
TM 64 Explosion
TM 65 Shadow Claw
TM 66 Payback
TM 67 Smart Strike
TM 68 Giga Impact
TM 69 Rock Polish
TM 70 Aurora Veil
TM 74 Gyro Ball
TM 75 Sword Dance
TM 76 Fly
TM 77 Psych Up
TM 79 Frost Breath
TM 81 X-Scissor
TM 82 Dragon Tail
TM 83 Infestation
TM 84 Poison Jab
TM 85 Dream Eater
TM 87 Swagger
TM 88 Sleep Talk
TM 90 Substitute
TM 91 Flash Cannon
TM 93 Wild Charge
TM 95 Snarl
TM 97 Dark Pulse
TM 98 Waterfall
TM 99 Dazzling Gleam
TM 100 Confide

Tutors

Snore
Synthesis
Heal Bell
Electroweb
Low Kick
Uproar
Bind
Helping Hand
Shock Wave
Block
Last Resort
Worry Seed
Covet
Bug Bite
Snatch
Recycle
Iron Tail
Spite
After You
Giga Drain
Ally Switch
Signal Beam
Gravity
Iron Defense
Telekinesis
Magnet Rise
Bounce
Role Play
Fire Punch
Water Pulse
Iron Head
Aqua Tail
Pain Split
Thunder Punch
Endeavor
Focus Punch
Icy Wind
Seed Bomb
Laser Focus
Magic Coat
Magic Room
Ice Punch
Wonder Room
Liquidation
Gastro Acid
Foul Play
Outrage
Sky Attack
Throat Chop
Skill Swap
Gunk Shot
Dual Chop
Drain Punch
Hyper Voice
Dragon Pulse

 

[Dogfish44]

Final Submission

Jumbao is a Pokemon that is honourable, first and foremost. It has rules when it fights, and it doesn't break them - Jumbao is not one which will steal an opponent's item, or steal their moves. It is also a Pokemon that helps its allies when they need help, and is not so proud as to not accept help in return. These are the sorts of aspects I've played up throughout the design.

In particular, you will note that Jumbao in this movepool never throws a kick or a punch, in line with Sumo Rules. Jumbao always puts it's whole body into it's contact blows - this is why, for instance, Superpower is in the tutors, whilst Low Sweep and Kick are not.

Level Up (23, 21 New)

HS Shore Up
HS Lucky Chant
HS Fake Out
1 Detect
1 Flower Shield
1 Tackle
1 Leafage
3 Tackle (R)
7 Leafage (R)
10 Rototiller
14 Ingrain
17 Magical Leaf
21 Wish
24 Psych Up
28 Body Slam
31 Natural Gift
35 Sunny Day
35 Flame Burst
38 Bullet Seed
42 Heavy Slam
45 Energy Ball
49 Moonblast
52 Leaf Storm

A fairly standard Level Up pattern, with a clean alternation of 3 and 4 levels (excluding the duet at Level 35) - no change in the learn pace, similar to mons like Tsareena and Drampa. 52 as last move level brings us in line with most ORAS G7 Pokemon, such as Tsareena, Shiinotic, and Lurantis.

Bulky Sumo Inspiration
Jumbao, even though it's a Special Attacker, has a lot of design elements which imply some physical strength and weight - indeed, a lot of people have picked up on the slightly Sumo-esque build. As such, I've decided to emphasise these traits throughout the movepool with a fairly physical bias, adding in moves like Tackle, Body Slam, and Heavy Slam. These are all moves associated with Weight, or with Heavy Pokemon.

Given Jumbao's build and "non-flexible" arms, I have decided against giving it a collection of 'throw' moves, or moves which would require complicated arm movements. However, to add sumo techniques which aren't relying on throws, I've given Jumbao Detect (mimicking the henka dodge - this is something more common from weaker sumo wrestlers, hence why it's so early in the movepool), Fake Out (slapping is kosher in Sumo, and the move is duplicated from Hariyama's movepool) and Psych Up, which reflects on the shikiri ritual at the start of a sumo bout. Lucky Chant is the last of my 'Sumo' moves in the Level Up movepool aside from the damage dealers, and it's in the Heart Scale moves because Sumo Referees are known to chant before a match starts.

Even the levels are reasonably in tune! The second strongest 'Sumo' move we have (Body Slam) is at Level 28 - the number of wrestlers ranked at "Jūryō" level, which is the second highest rank. Level 42 has our strongest 'Sumo' move in Heavy Slam, which is the number of wrestlers ranked at "Makuuchi" level, which is the highest sumo rank.

Green Thumb'd Tree
Jumbao naturally brings sunlight, it only follows that it also brings with it a knack for Gardening. Indeed, it is very capable of providing the setting a berry needs to grow into a full tree. First, it manages to get berries down from a tree with moves like Tackle, and it then makes sure that the soil is appropriate by plowing it with Rototiller, and once the berry is planted it protects it with Flower Shield. Jumbao then patiently waits and prays, with moves like Ingrain and Wish. Then, once the tree has grown, it gathers the fresh fruit by tackling with a Body Slam, before consuming the beries or otherwise using them through Natural Gift.

Suns Out, Guns Out!
Pipotchi's design for Jumbao is notable for it's sap-firing cannons. At Level 35, Jumbao brings in the Sun and begins using these cannons, with moves like Flame Burst, Moonblast, Energy Ball, and Bullet Seed all appearing at the latter end of the movepool.

And yes, I am very proud of that pun. I don't think anyone else is, but that's neither here nor there :P

Tree Aesthetics
Killing me to not call them Treesthetics...
Jumbao is a tree, and I felt the best way to not forget that fact was to pick the "Leaf" Grass Moves throughout the movepool. That's Leafage, Magical Leaf, and capped off with Leaf Storm. These points are compounded by the 'gardening' moves mentioned earlier.

Miscellaneous Items
I think we've got pretty much everything? Shore Up is in the Heart Scale department because I'm stubborn and won't add 'Amorphous' to the Egg Groups, and there's no real spot to place it otherwise.

I've decided against including an Evo move - they aren't mandatory by a long shot, and I don't see any pressing need for them on this movepool.

Egg Moves (Grass) (5 New)

Grassy Terrain (Exeggutor)
Healing Wish (Cherrim)
Misty Terrain (Cottonee)
Smelling Salts (Cacnea)
Wood Hammer (Exeggutor)

Grassy Terrain & Misty Terrain
I'm stuck for how to describe these beyond "they match Jumbao's types and other similar Pokemon get them". Sorry ^^;

Healing Wish
This one's mandatory! It's down here because I couldn't find a particularly appropriate spot in the Level Up pool, and the only other Grass types to pick it up by Level Up are Legendary (Shaymin and Celebi).

Smelling Salts
The practice of throwing salt at a sumo bout is well known, and Smelling Salts is already well established as the move of choice when it comes to having mons make reference to the practice.

Wood Hammer
It's a BIG tree. See my lack of inspiration for novels in Grassy Terrain and Misty Terrain :P

---

Also, because it amuses me, most of the Egg movepool (Misty Terrain, Healing Wish, Smelling Salts) requires some form of chain breeding to make their way over here, which is cute enough that I'm mentioning it.

Tutor (12 New)

Snore
Synthesis
Helping Hand
Block
Worry Seed
Giga Drain
Gravity
Seed Bomb
Magic Coat
Magic Room
Wonder Room
Superpower

Mystical Moves
Gravity, Magic Coat, Magic Room, and Wonder Room: They all come from the same "mystical" background that a lot of Jumbao's moves come from. Helping Hand is also often associated with mystical mons and Fairies, and works well as an indicator of how Jumbao will help others.

Grass Collection
Synthesis, Worry Seed, Giga Drain, and Seed Bomb all pull strictly from Jumbao's grass typing.

Sumo Influences
More of these! Superpower is a 'Sumo' move that stays within the rules of Sumo - simply being Super Strong ain't cheating, unlike moves like Low Kick or Focus Punch. Block is included here as a move that is very distinct of heavy Pokemon, which naturally matches the sumo motif.

TMs (32, 29 New)

TM 06 Toxic
TM 08 Bulk Up
TM 10 Hidden Power
TM 11 Sunny Day (R)
TM 15 Hyper Beam
TM 16 Light Screen
TM 17 Protect
TM 20 Safeguard
TM 21 Frustration
TM 22 Solar Beam
TM 27 Return
TM 30 Shadow Ball
TM 31 Brick Break
TM 32 Double Team
TM 37 Sandstorm
TM 42 Facade
TM 44 Rest
TM 45 Attract
TM 48 Round
TM 52 Focus Blast
TM 53 Energy Ball (R)
TM 64 Explosion
TM 68 Giga Impact
TM 74 Gyro Ball
TM 77 Psych Up (R)
TM 78 Bulldoze
TM 86 Grass Knot
TM 87 Swagger
TM 88 Sleep Talk
TM 90 Substitute
TM 99 Dazzling Gleam
TM 100 Confide

TMs are broadly expected - a mix of duplicates, required moves, and moves you would associate with Grass-types, Fairy-types, and Heavier mons.

Moves which might be controversial, or are otherwise interesting/potentially different:

Explosion
Explosion is commonly associated with mons which are, well, big. Fellow Fire-Move-Using-Grass-Type Gourgeist also picks up the move.

Brick Break
Whilst Brick Break can be associated with punching (Something I wish to avoid), the fact that Pokemon like Toucannon get the move (Toucannon has no arms :P) implies that there is not an inherent punch - just barrier breaking.

Bulldoze
I was umming and ahhing on this one for a while - Bulldoze alone without Earthquake can sometimes be a bit uncouth, but there are some instances where you'd expect to see it. Ultimately I've gone with it - fellow multi-weather abuser Heliolisk also has Bulldoze without Earthquake, for instance.

Bulk Up
In case you weren't clear that I've gone fairly heavy on Sumo references, a move about 'adding weight to fight' ought to clarify the matter.

Full Listing (67)

Attract
Block
Body Slam
Brick Break
Bulldoze
Bulk Up
Bullet Seed
Confide
Dazzling Gleam
Detect
Double Team
Energy Ball
Explosion
Facade
Fake Out
Flame Burst
Flower Shield
Focus Blast
Frustration
Giga Drain
Giga Impact
Grass Knot
Grassy Terrain
Gravity
Gyro Ball
Healing Wish
Heavy Slam
Helping Hand
Hidden Power
Hyper Beam
Ingrain
Leaf Storm
Leafage
Light Screen
Lucky Chant
Magic Coat
Magic Room
Magical Leaf
Misty Terrain
Moonblast
Natural Gift
Protect
Psych Up
Rest
Return
Rototiller
Round
Safeguard
Sandstorm
Seed Bomb
Shadow Ball
Shore Up
Sleep Talk
Smelling Salts
Snore
Solar Beam
Substitute
Sunny Day
Superpower
Swagger
Synthesis
Tackle
Toxic
Wish
Wonder Room
Wood Hammer
Worry Seed

 

[Menshay]

Requesting a legality check for Swords Dance, Work Up, Calm Mind, Shadow Ball, Ingrain and medium to strong physical moves like Fire Punch, Zen Headbutt and Focus Punch.

 

[snake]

WIP

the description below are a bit outdated, when you don't see this message anymore, give it a read! - snake

Level Up

1 Misty Terrain
1 Heal Pulse
1 Fake Out
1 Sand Attack
1 Ingrain
1 Absorb
Evolve: Heavy Slam
4 Arm Thrust
8 Mega Drain
12 Synthesis
17 Vital Throw
21 Play Rough
26 Giga Drain
31 Body Slam
37 Shore Up
42 Solar Beam
48 Moonblast
54 Healing Wish
61 Wood Hammer

My movepool combines several aspects of CAP24's design and notable niches: Sun, Sand, Sumo Wrestling, and it's many healing options. Just to get this out of the way, common sumo techniques include: thrusting, pushing, throwing, lifting, and forcing out. It is disallowed to punch, kick, swing around, etc. in sumo wrestly.

The level up pattern for this movepool is as follows. We begin with 4 moves at level 1, then 4 moves following a 3-4-4-5 pattern, then 4 moves following a 4-5-5-6 pattern, and then 4 final moves following a 5-6-6-7 pattern.

We start with a weak STAB move, Sand Attack, Synthesis, and Ingrain at level 1, with Arm Thrust not too far behind. Then we get to Mega Drain, a slightly strong STAB move. Vital Throw felt appropriate for the next move, alluding to throwing opponents down. Body Slam is next, which is an interpretation of pushing and forcing out. Next is Play Rough, alluding to thrusting once again. Wish is next, as most Pokemon learn it around this level. Giga Drain is another good STAB move, Shore Up pulls in the sand theme once more, and then Moonblast for a good secondary STAB move. Rounding out the level up pool we have Solar Beam, alluding to Sun, then Healing Wish, which is a move that most Pokemon learn late, and Wood Hammer, a Grass-type tackling move (move description according to Bulbapedia: "The user slams its rugged body into the target to attack. This also damages the user quite a lot.")

Heavy Slam is the Evolve Move of choice. Even though CAP24 is quite heavy, it's paltry attack will not allow it to hit very hard, so I believe it is a safe option.

TM List

TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM37 Sandstorm
TM42 Façade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM46 Thief
TM48 Round
TM49 Echoed Voice
TM52 Focus Blast
TM53 Energy Ball
TM60 Quash
TM63 Embargo
TM64 Explosion
TM66 Payback
TM68 Giga Impact
TM77 Psych Up
TM80 Rock Slide
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM92 Trick Room
TM99 Dazzling Gleam
TM100 Confide

Egg Moves (Grass / Monster)

Flame Burst (Charizard)
Leaf Storm
Seismic Toss
Smelling Salts
Wish

One thing I want to point out is how CAP24 does NOT fit in with the rest of the Pokemon in the Fairy Egg Group. Check out the list on Bulbapedia. Slurpuff looks the most similar to CAP 24, but CAP24 is at LEAST 100 times heavier with the competitive weight minimum of 500kg. Excluding the outlier Glalie, CAP24 is also at least 10 times heavier than pretty much all of the Pokemon in the Fairy Egg Group. Basically, these Pokemon are generally really light, and CAP24 is not.

The Grass Egg Group felt natural for CAP24. Human-like seemed appropriate, but then I realized that CAP24 has 4 legs. Luckily, quite a few Monster Egg Group Pokemon are quadruped.

On to actual moves. Flame Burst didn't feel like it fit in the level-up movepool, so it's here. Leaf Storm fell into here because I wanted Solar Beam in the level-up pool. Misty Terrain was somewhat discussed in the moveset thread and fell to the wayside after discussion went on. Seismic Toss is a bit of an extreme way to interpret lifting, but it fits for the sumo wrestling pokemon.

Gen 7 Pokemon have very small Egg Move pools, so I'm capping it on four here.

Tutor Moves

Giga Drain
Seed Bomb
Snore
Synthesis
Worry Seed

 

[SunshineFuture]

Legality check Dark Pulse, phazing, Dream Eater, elemental punches, Flame Charge, Snarl and Rock Tomb.

 

[G-Luke]

Requesting a Legality check on Omniboosting Z-Moves (Hold Hands, Celebrate)

 

[Merlee]

Final Submission

Required moves are bolded.

Level Up (20 Moves, 19 Unique)

HS Shore Up
1 Tackle
1 Absorb
1 Ingrain
1 Play Nice
4 Play Nice (REPEAT)
8 Fairy Wind
12 Lucky Chant
15 Mega Drain
19 Sweet Scent
23 Magical Leaf
26 Synthesis
30 Body Slam
34 Giga Drain
38 Wide Guard
43 Wood Hammer
48 Grassy Terrain
52 Moonblast
57 Entrainment
62 Solar Beam

While most people decided to emphasize Jumbao's sand and sumo aspects of its design in their level-up pools, I decided to only allocate one move to each (Shore Up and Body Slam respectively) and decided to go with a more "traditional" Grass type level-up pool. Shore Up is a Heart Scale move, as it couldn't fit in the Egg Moves at all and didn't work in the regular level-up pool either. Wide Guard is learned by other large and heavy Pokemon like Avalugg and Mantine, and Entrainment is typically learned late in the game (for some reason...) and its Japanese name of "Befriend" seemed very fitting for such a friendly-looking tree. Besides that, this is pretty standard fare for Grasses, with some Fairy moves sprinkled in.

One notable omission from the level-up pool, however, is Sunny Day. It's in the TMs obviously, but I'd like to give my reasoning for excluding it from the level-up. There are two reasons I did: No Pokemon with Drought gets it by level-up, and the Grass types that get it by level-up have a non-hidden Ability that directly benefits from Sun, such as Chlorophyll, Leaf Guard, or, in Cherrim's case, Flower Gift. I just wanted to mention this at the end as I figured some might have questions about it, especially considering as this has Synthesis and Solar Beam in its level-up pool, two moves that directly benefit from Sun.

TMs (27 Moves, 26 Unique)

TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam (REPEAT)
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM37 Sandstorm
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM52 Focus Blast
TM53 Energy Ball
TM68 Giga Impact
TM77 Psych Up
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM99 Dazzling Gleam
TM100 Confide

Don't think I really need to explain anything here...

Egg Moves (Grass/Human-Like) (7 Moves)

Charm (Cottonee)
Flame Burst (Magmar)
Healing Wish (Buneary)
Leaf Storm (Petilil)
Play Rough (Comfey)
Rototiller (Lopunny)
Wish (Illumise)

The Grass Egg Group was obvious for a tree, but Human-Like may turn a few heads, as this thing has 4 legs, which no members of the Egg Group have. However, I feel like the rules of the Egg Group (2 arms, 2 legs, bipedal) have been bent a few times, as Machamp has 4 arms and Jynx has no legs (seeing as it has no footprint...though it was shown with feet in the anime, but I guess the anime is never consistent.) Not to mention, Jumbao isn't really what I would consider a quadruped either, as it has arms in addition to its 4 feet, so it isn't quadrupedal, at least not in the same way a dog or cat would be.

Anyway, Charm is a decently common Egg Move amongst Grass types, with 5 evolutionary families getting it via breeding. Play Rough I think is very fitting, especially considering its Japanese name is "Frolic." Lastly, Rototiller ties into Jumbao's association with sand as seen via Shore Up, in addition to also making sense with its strong connection to nature.

Move Tutors (13 Moves, 11 Unique)

After You
Block
Drain Punch
Focus Punch
Giga Drain (REPEAT)
Heal Bell
Helping Hand
Low Kick
Recycle
Seed Bomb
Snore
Synthesis (REPEAT)
Worry Seed

- Drain Punch was a move I saw lacking from a lot of submissions, even the ones that included other punching moves, which kinda confused me, as Drain Punch is a pretty common move among Grass types with arms, even those without hands like the Vileplume line.
- Focus Punch is a similar case to Drain Punch, though it is admittedly a lot less common for Grass types to learn.
- Heal Bell is pretty uncommon among Grass types, but I feel like it is still fitting, especially considering another Grass type to learn it is Celebi, which has a strong connection to nature like Jumbao does.
- Recycle is even less common among Grass types than Heal Bell, but I think it still ties back into Jumbao's association with nature very nicely.

All Moves

Absorb
After You
Attract
Block
Body Slam
Brick Break
Charm
Confide
Dazzling Gleam
Double Team
Drain Punch
Energy Ball
Entrainment
Facade
Fairy Wind
Flame Burst
Focus Blast
Focus Punch
Frustration
Giga Drain
Giga Impact
Grass Knot
Grassy Terrain
Heal Bell
Healing Wish
Helping Hand
Hidden Power
Hyper Beam
Ingrain
Leaf Storm
Light Screen
Low Kick
Lucky Chant
Magical Leaf
Mega Drain
Moonblast
Play Nice
Play Rough
Protect
Psych Up
Recycle
Rest
Return
Rototiller
Round
Safeguard
Sandstorm
Seed Bomb
Shore Up
Sleep Talk
Snore
Solar Beam
Substitute
Sunny Day
Swagger
Sweet Scent
Synthesis
Tackle
Toxic
Wide Guard
Wish
Wood Hammer
Worry Seed

Total Moves: 63

 

[Menshay]

Final submission

Level-up (18)

1 Wide Guard
1 Shore Up
1 Leafage
1 Sand-Attack
1 Endure
1 Stomp
7 Ingrain
12 Magical Leaf
16 Natural Gift
20 Body Slam
26 Wish
31 Play Rough
35 Sunny Day
41 Synthesis
49 Solar Beam
56 Heavy Slam
62 Leaf Storm
68 Healing Wish

This movepool follows a vague tale of a Pokémon having to endure harsh conditions first by simply defending itself (Sand-Attack, Endure, Ingrain), then by attacking (Magical Leaf, Body Slam, Play Rough), and finally by learning how to harness the power of the sun itself (Sunny Day, Synthesis, Solar Beam). More in-detail:
- Leafage is the starting move, being a weak Grass-type move introduced in the current generation.
- Sand-Attack is chosen as the starting status move to anticipate CAP24's sand focus.
- Stomp references the similar-looking Exeggutor.
- Magical Leaf is chosen ad CAP24's mid-level Grass move because of its mystical properties befitting a Fairy-type.
- Body Slam and the much later Heavy Slam reference CAP24's large weight.
- I envision CAP24 as a protector or guardian spirit of sorts, which is represented by having Wide Guard, Wish and Healing Wish at the beginning (envisioned as a Heart Scale move), middle and end of its movepool respectively.
- CAP24 also looks jolly and playful, hence Play Rough as its only Fairy-type level-up move.
- I had a hard time finding a spot for Shore Up (as an egg moveit would have required a Field or Amorphous egg group neither of which fits, Sandygast/Palossand learn it at a high level which would conflict with how I envisioned Synthesis), so I ultimately decided to treat it as a Heart Scale move).
- Note the increased gaps between moves after Sunny Day: I interpret Sunny Day at the moment CAP24 really starts to learn how to use the sun to its advantage, thus being a good point to suggest an evolution. This is followed by CAP24's other two sun-related moves, Synthesis and Solar Beam.

Egg moves (Grass/Monster) (7)

Flame Burst (Charmander)
Giga Drain (Tangela)
Grassy Terrain (Oddish)
Leaf Tornado (Tropius)
Misty Terrain (Cottonee <- Spritzee)
Moonblast (Oddish)
Wood Hammer (Exeggutor)

- Most Grass-types are in the Grass egg group, and Monster contains the similar Snorlax and Tropius while also providing access to Flame Burst which doesn't fit very much as a level-up move.
- I have chosen to place Moonblast here instead of in level-up because I felt a moon-related move would sort of clash with CAP24's sun focus. Note that Cutiefly gives it precedent as an egg move.
- Misty/Grassy Terrain fit into CAP24's protector flavour, so I placed them here to avoid overcrowding its level-up movepool.
- Giga Drain is common as an egg move, while Wood Hammer and Leaf Tornado are simply flavour moves inherited from Pokémon I felt similar enough.

TMs (28, 2 repeats)

TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM30 Shadow Ball
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM37 Sandstorm
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM52 Focus Blast
TM53 Energy Ball
TM60 Quash
TM68 Giga Impact
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM99 Dazzling Gleam
TM100 Confide

- Most moves are required, universal or implied by CAP24's typing.
- Sandstorm is tied to Shore Up and references CAP24's role in sand.
- Safeguard and Quash tie into CAP24's protector/helper theme.
- Brick Break is a way to give CAP24 some sort of Fighting flavour, considering its partial origin as a sumo wrestler.

Tutors (16, 2 repeats)

After You
Block
Drain Punch
Fire Punch
Focus Punch
Giga Drain
Heal Bell
Helping Hand
Last Resort
Low Kick
Seed Bomb
Snore
Superpower
Synthesis
Thunder Punch
Worry Seed

- Superpower, Low Kick and the various punching moves contribute to the Fighting flavour mentioned above. In particular, Fire Punch ties with Flame Burst.
- After You, Heal Bell and Helping Hand are yet more helpful moves.
- Block is common among large Pokémon in general (notably Snorlax, Exeggutor and Torterra).
Total moves: 65

 

[Mx]

Earthquake/Bulldoze: I've banned all Ground-type moves with more that 60 BP. As such Earthquake is disallowed, but Bulldoze is allowed

Ghost/Dark coverage: Allowed. These are not good coverage for our type, so we shouldn't be using this competitively.

Hold Hands/Celebrate: Disallowed, this is a very competitive option, while I can see an argument in favor of more middling options, such as Agility, Calm Mind and Rototiller, a move that boost all of our stats is clearly over the line.

Dream Eater: Allowed. Psychic coverage might be generally disallowed, but DE is clearly not very useful on a competitive basis.

Sword Dance/Belly Drum: These moves are allowed. However, any movepool that includes them, will have to keep their physical coverage to the minimum (I.E: No Wood Hammer/Power Whip, no Play Rough, no Fighting or Fire coverage, etc.)

Generically good physical moves (Elemental Punches, Focus Punch, Hammer Arm, etch): These are allowed, as long as you don't add ways to boost our attack stat.

Physical Fire coverage: Allowed, with the exception of Flare Blitz and Heat Crash. Most of the time, these moves will be useless thanks to our pitiful Attack stat, however, just to be safe, the two more powerful options will be banned, as they would deal significantly more damage to Magearna than Flame Burst (0 Atk Life Orb Tapu Bulu Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna in Sun: 205-244 (56.4 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO | 252 SpA Life Orb Tapu Bulu Flame Burst vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna in Sun: 127-151 (34.9 - 41.5%) -- 73.2% chance to 3HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery).

Finally I'd like to ask for more feedback on a few moves:

Trick Room: This move (and this archetype in general) flew completely under our radar until now, so I think that now that a few submissions have included it, it's a good time to talk about it. While 96 is not an ideal Speed stat for TR, has found a place in this playstyle with an almost identical stat. Not only that, but CAP 24 has pretty good synergy with pre-existing abusers, as most of its abusers are weak to Ground, which we resist, and both A-Marowak and M-Camerupt really appreciate having Drought support on their team.

Calm Mind: Another move that was never mentioned in the last thread, I don't find it a particularly useful addition, as using one of our moveslots for this would mean forsaking valuable coverage, and we can achieve similar power by simply using Choice Specs. However, unlike other moves like Rototiller, this is a genuinely competitive move, so I'd like to hear more people talk about it before I officially allow it.

EDIT: In case this wasn't clear before, Fire status moves (Sunny Day most importantly) are allowed

 

[snake]

Calm Mind seems like a bad idea when we have recovery. Calm Mind / Shore Up / Moonblast / Hidden Power Ground is definitely viable.

Sunny Day should be allowed, even under the Fire-type move ban, given the concept. Will-O-Wisp though, should not be allowed because of CAP24's weaker defense stat and the amount of physical checks that we have. That was something to have discussed in the thread if we wanted a burn status-inducing move.

 

[Gravity Monkey]

Requesting a legality check for Leech Seeds.

 

[Mx]

Taunt, Encore and Leech Seed were some of the first moves I banned, even if they're not currently marked as disallowed. I probably deleted them by accident. I'll ask a moderator to get them back into the banlist.

 

[SunshineFuture]

WIP

Level Up (20 Total)

Heart Scale - Misty Terrain
Heart Scale - Brine
Heart Scale - Focus Energy
Heart Scale - Morning Sun
Evolve - Heavy Slam
1 - Absorb
1 - Sandstorm
1 - Ingrain
1 - Arm Thrust
4 - Disarming Voice
7 - Sand Attack
11 - Magical Leaf
16 - Synthesis
21 - Sand Tomb
28 - Body Slam
35 - Energy Ball
42 - Wood Hammer
50 - Moonblast
58 - Shore Up
66 - Solar Beam

For the LU pool, I decided to emphasis on the sand and sumo aspects while combining it with a typical Grass-type movepool. To begin with, Absorb is given as a L1 STAB move, as most things that get Absorb learn it at L1. I also gave it Sandstorm L1 to set the foundation that Jumbao is meant to be a sandy boi, not just a sunny boi. Ingrain is a reference to the book "The Little Prince", which first introduced many people to baobab trees. In the book, a character says that their roots must be pulled up or else their roots go through the whole damn planet. Finally, Arm Thrust is used as a foundation for the sumo side to Jumbao. After that, the pattern goes 3-3-4-5-5. Disarming Voice and Magical Leaf respectively are early game STABs. Sand Tomb is there due to the fact that it shows the prowess of our Baobuddy’s sand powers is increasing. Body Slam is added to add to the sumo motif. The reason why Body Slam is specifically level 28 (and why Wood Hammer is level 42) is because that is the number of the maximum amount of wrestlers in certain sumo tournaments (on mobile so I can’t pull them up this instant). After this, Energy Ball comes into play to give a reliable STAB move to the Pokémon in the mid game and to not make it use Absorb for 50 levels, lmao. Wood Hammer works both because it’s literally made of wood, but also because of the fact that Wood Hammer is described as a tackle, going with the sumo motif. Skipping past Moonblast, we see Shore Up. Unlike other people, who have made Shore Up a heart scale move, I decided to put it at a very high level. Why? Because Palossand, the only thing that currently gets it in game, learns it at level 54. As I think we should try to get it after the thing it fits best with, I placed it further down. It also shows that Jumbao has gotten so good at using sand that it can heal itself with it. As for the HS and Evo moves, they’re rather simple. It gets Brine as a heart scale move because Hariyama, its sumo friend, also does so. The reason is because the move refers to saltwater, which ties to the tradition of throwing salt before a sumo match to purify the arena. Misty Terrain adds a layer of it being a tree of life, going along well with moves like Synthesis and to an extent, Shore Up and Magical Leaf. This is accentuated most in egg moves. Morning Sun is a worse Synthesis which also fits with both Drought and the tree of life aspect. Focus Energy also boosts the sumo vibes and also can be interpreted as a mystical being charging up, fitting with the tree of life. Finally, it learning Heavy Slam after evolving is due to the fact that it likely will be heavier after evolving (by a long shot) assuming we have a prevo. It also goes along with the sumo motif, especially if it evolves somewhere between levels 28-42.

Egg Moves (Grass / Monster) (7 Total)

Smelling Salts (Cacturne, Exploud, Aggron, Lickilicky)
Flame Burst (Charizard, Salazzle)
Play Rough (Tsareena, Comfey, Drampa)
Heal Pulse (Meganium, Cherrim, Slowbro, Slowking)
Wish (Exeggutor/Exeggutor-Alola, Kangaskhan, Lickilicky)
Healing Wish (Cherrim, Lilligant)
Leaf Storm (A lot of stuff)

The main focus of the egg moves is the idea of this Pokémon’s literal roots of the tree of life. This is accentuated my the placement of Wish, Healing Wish and Heal Pulse. You also could argue that Smelling Salts could also contribute to this, though it mostly ties to the arena purification, like Brine. Flame Burst couldn’t fit anywhere else. Play Rough mostly is on account of how physically strong it is (on design only, if that makes sense). Leaf Storm isn’t fit anywhere else either. The reason that egg moves are relatively small is due to the fact that not a lot of Gen 7 Pokemon got a lot of egg moves. For comparison, Araquanid has about seven egg moves, the same that we do. Finally, the reason for placing Jumbao in the Monster egg group is due to the appearance of Jumbao, putting it in the same category as Pokemon like Snorlax. Human-Like seems appealing until you remember it has four legs. Field is also weird because Pokemon in those categories have actual organs, like people do. Plants do not have organs in the same way people do. Jumbao is a plant, as such, I did not see this thing breeding with a flipping Sylveon.

TMs (30 Total, 3 Repeats)

TM 01 Work Up
TM 05 Roar
TM 06 Toxic
TM 08 Bulk Up
TM 10 Hidden Power
TM 11 Sunny Day
TM 15 Hyper Beam
TM 16 Light Screen
TM 17 Protect
TM 20 Safeguard
TM 21 Frustration
TM 22 Solar Beam
TM 27 Return
TM 31 Brick Break
TM 32 Double Team
TM 37 Sandstorm
TM 41 Torment
TM 42 Facade
TM 44 Rest
TM 45 Attract
TM 48 Round
TM 52 Focus Blast
TM 53 Energy Ball
TM 68 Giga Impact
TM 86 Grass Knot
TM 87 Swagger
TM 88 Sleep Talk
TM 90 Substitute
TM 99 Dazzling Gleam
TM 100 Confide

Just note I'm skipping over repeats and mandatory things. Roar is simply a matter of something that looks like it should get a move getting a move. Bulk Up, Work Up and Brick Break are to further build the sumo vibes for Jumbao. Sunny Day is because a million things get it, it has Drought and is a tree. Safeguard goes with the Tree of Life motif. Torment also goes with this, as other Pokemon with deity-like origins, namely the Tapus, all get Torment. Dazzling Gleam is a matter of the fact that in-game (if Jumbao was official), it simply makes sense to have an accessible Fairy move before you manage to get Moonblast. Grass Knot is a very common move among Grass-types.

Tutors (15 Total, 1 Repeat)

Snore
Synthesis
Low Kick
Helping Hand
Worry Seed
Giga Drain
Seed Bomb
Throat Chop
Recycle
After You
Block
Superpower
Pain Split
Endeavor
Zen Headbutt

Ignoring repeats and mandatory stuff again. Helping Hand, After You, Pain Split, Endeavor, Zen Headbutt and Recycle boost the Tree of Life portion, Seed Bomb and Worry Seed are because it's a flipping tree, Superpower is due to Jumbao's massive size (and the name itself), and Low Kick and Throat Chop go with the sumo vibes.

Total Moves (Not Counting Repeats): 68

 

[Menshay]

Requesting a check for Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, Ingrain and Grassy/Misty Terrain.

 

[Mx]

Requesting a check for Heal Bell/Aromatherapy, Ingrain and Grassy/Misty Terrain.

All of them are allowed

 

[G-Luke]

Sword Dance/Belly Drum: These moves are allowed. However, any movepool that includes them, will have to keep their physical coverage to the minimum (I.E: No Wood Hammer/Power Whip, no Play Rough, no Fighting or Fire coverage, etc.)

i don't agree with the fact CAP 24 should lack things like Play Rough / Wood Hammer just because it has Belly Drum (note i am arguing specifically for Belly Drum, as SD does not seem flavourful at all to me). Belly Drum comes with ALOT of risk, and with a 63 Attack stat i don't think that having Belly Drum is all that harmful. The most that can happen is a hilarious SD Pyroak incident. I don't think it should strong physical Fire coverage tho.

anyways, here is my WIP movepool sub

Level Up (22 Moves - 1 Repeat)

HS Shore Up
HS Healing Wish
1 Leafage
1 Sand Attack
1 Tackle
1 Arm Thrust
Evo Move: Heavy Slam
5 Stomp
9 Fairy Wind
13 Magical Leaf
18 Ingrain
22 Draining Kiss
26 Leaf Tornado
30 Body Slam
35 Sunny Day
35 Sandstorm
40 Wish
44 Solar Beam
49 Misty Terrain
53 Play Rough
58 Morning Sun
62 Wood Hammer
67 Healing Wish

TM/HM Moves (28 Moves - 3 Repeat)

TM06 Toxic
TM08 Bulk Up
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM16 Light Screen
TM17 Protect
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM31 Brick Break
TM32 Double Team
TM37 Sandstorm
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM52 Focus Blast
TM53 Energy Ball
TM64 Explosion
TM68 Giga Impact
TM77 Psych Up
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM99 Dazzling Gleam
TM100 Confide

Egg Moves (6 Moves)

Egg Groups: Grass and Monster

Flame Burst (Charmander)
Flower Shield (Sunflora)
Grassy Terrain (Exeggutor)
Leaf Storm (Lots)
Moonblast (Oddish)
Wide Guard (Shieldon, Turtwig)

Move Tutors (15 Moves)

After You
Block
Endeavor
Giga Drain
Gravity
Heal Bell
Helping Hand
Last Resort
Low Kick
Seed Bomb
Snore
Superpower
Synthesis
Throat Chop
Worry Seed

Total unique moves: 67

Probs my last update before i make a final submission, so yh

 

[Y Parahax]

WIP

Level Up - 23 Moves

HS Crafty Shield
HS Shore Up
HS Heal Bell
HS Heavy Slam
0 Leafage
0 Endure
0 Fairy Wind
0 Water Sport
4 Helping Hand
8 Arm Thrust
13 Ember
17 Razor Leaf
21 Flatter
26 Force Palm
30 Giga Drain
34 Sandstorm
39 Grassy Terrain
45 Sunny Day
51 Synthesis
58 Moonblast
64 Wish
70 Leaf Storm
77 Healing Wish

TM Moves - 33 Moves - 2 Repeats

TM 06 Toxic
TM 08 Bulk Up
TM 10 Hidden Power
TM 11 Sunny Day
TM 15 Hyper Beam
TM 16 Light Screen
TM 17 Protect
TM 20 Safeguard
TM 21 Frustration
TM 22 Solar Beam
TM 27 Return
TM 32 Double Team
TM 37 Sandstorm
TM 39 Rock Tomb
TM 42 Facade
TM 44 Rest
TM 46 Thief
TM 47 Low Sweep
TM 48 Round
TM 49 Echoed Voice
TM 52 Focus Blast
TM 53 Energy Ball
TM 56 Fling
TM 60 Quash
TM 68 Giga Impact
TM 77 Psych Up
TM 78 Bulldoze
TM 86 Grass Knot
TM 88 Sleep Talk
TM 90 Substitute
TM 92 Trick Room
TM 99 Dazzling Gleam
TM 100 Confide

Egg Moves - 7 Moves

Egg Groups: Grass/Field
-Flame Burst (from Vulpix, Growlithe, Numel, Camerupt, Pansear, Simisear, Heatmor, Torkoal - [requires chain breed])
-Switcheroo (from Persian, Persian-Alola, Linoone, Aipom - [requires chain breed])
-Morning Sun (from Espeon, Growlithe, Ponyta - [both require chain breed], Sunkern)
-Aromatherapy (from Paras, Parasect, Vileplume, Chikorita Line, Roselia, Petilil)
-Bullet Seed (from Exeggcute, Hoppip Line, Sunflora)
-Misty Terrain (from Sylveon, Popplio Line)
-Wide Guard (from Mienshao, Turtwig - [requires chain breed])

Tutor Moves - 16 Moves - 3 Repeats

Snore
Synthesis
Heal Bell
Low Kick
Helping Hand
Block
Worry Seed
Snatch
Recycle
Giga Drain
Pain Split
Endeavor
Seed Bomb
Magic Room
Wonder Room
Fire Punch

Total Moves: 75
Hopefully I did this right and nothing is illegal.

 

[G-Luke]

I suggest banning all Rock type coverage, in order to preserve Mega Charizard Y as a counter

 

[SunshineFuture]

I personally would think that we should keep competitive and flavor seperate. At the very least, we need consistency. Reflect got a ban despite no discussion (though I agree with the ban, still should have been discussed a smidge). Meanwhile, Heal Bell and Trick Room (the former was mentioned IN COMPETITVE) are up in the air during a flavor portion. I don’t want our movepools to be decided on which side of an argument you’re on regarding an actual competitive move. I thought Calm Mind was about to canned! Why are we discussing it now?! Either I’m missing something or something needs to change. Terrains in this case are different, because a set revolving them would be extremely niche, unlike the other competitve moves being discussed.

 

[G-Luke]

I personally would think that we should keep competitive and flavor seperate. At the very least, we need consistency. Reflect got a ban despite no discussion (though I agree with the ban, still should have been discussed a smidge). Meanwhile, Heal Bell and Trick Room (the former was mentioned IN COMPETITVE) are up in the air during a flavor portion. I don’t want our movepools to be decided on which side of an argument you’re on regarding an actual competitive move. I thought Calm Mind was about to canned! Why are we discussing it now?! Either I’m missing something or something needs to change.

Some things were simply not brought up or thought about during the earlier moveset process, and things that were not as clear simply is being queried to ensure that we are on the right track

 

[Reiga]

Final Submission

Level Up

1-Leaf Storm
1-Flame Burst
1-Tackle
1-Focus Energy
1-Wide Guard
1-Fairy Wind
Evo.-Heavy Slam
5-Fairy Wind
9-Absorb
13-Bide
17-Ingrain
21-Mega Drain
25-Teeter Dance
29-Smelling Salts
33-Endure
37-Giga Drain
41-Moonblast
45-Sunny Day
49-Shore Up
53-Healing Wish
57-Synthesis
60-Leaf Storm

A basic rundown would be I tried to include a lot of sumo-related moves that didn't tiptoe into Fighting too much (Smelling Salts, Focus Energy, Bide, Endure), some fitting Grass moves (Ingrain, all stages of the grass -Drain moves, Synthesis and Leaf Storm), and some Fairy-ish moves sprinkled in (Fairy Wind, Moonblast, Healing Wish). It's evolution move is also Heavy Slam, as I imagine its most striking quality at first is indeed its bulking size, so it from the get-go can get a move used by heavy guys.

Egg Moves (Grass)

Worry Seed
Superpower
Flower Shield
Wish
Petal Dance
Solar Beam

Personally, I believe running Grass/Monster or Grass/Human-Like is just ludicrous considering how much of a stretch they are and Pokemon's track record with Pokemon directly based off of trees; almost all of them are purely Grass, with the exception of Abomasnow, who's abominable snowman roots lead to it being part Monster.
With that out of the way, a lot of these moves are just stuff a lot of Grass types get, like Worry Seed, Petal Dance and Solar Beam although the latter fits Jumbao's purpose very well. Flower Shield plays a little with Jumbao's typing, and Superpower is like a sort of "pass-over" fighting move just to touch a bit on Jumbao's fighting-like appearance. Wish is also mandatory, and can be obtained via an event Exeggcute from Gen III.

TMs

Toxic
Hidden Power
Sunny Day
Hyper Beam
Light Screen
Protect
Safeguard
Frustration
Solar Beam
Return
Double Team
Sandstorm
Facade
Flame Charge
Rest
Attract
Round
Focus Blast
Energy Ball
Brutal Swing
Explosion
Giga Impact
Bulldoze
Grass Knot
Swagger
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Dazzling Gleam
Confide

Pretty basic stuff here, mostly a lot of the remaining mandatory moves and some of the stuff you would only see on TMs, like Explosion, in a bit of a reference to the similar Exeggutor's explosive tendancies. A notable aspect of this list is the inclusion of many low powered Fire moves, which not only normalize Flame Burst but aren't a new thing on grass types; as Gourgeist also gets them. Gourgeist of course is justified by being a jack-o-lantern, but as a drought-summoning god tree, I don't see why Jumbao can't be justified as well.

Tutors

Snore
Low Kick
Uproar
Helping Hand
Last Resort
Worry Seed
Recycle
After You
Giga Drain
Synthesis
Role Play
Pain Split
Endeavor
Seed Bomb
Superpower
Stomping Tantrum

List of All Moves

Leaf Storm
Heavy Slam
Flame Burst
Tackle
Focus Energy
Wide Guard
Fairy Wind
Absorb
Bide
Ingrain
Mega Drain
Synthesis
Sunny Day
Endure
Giga Drain
Moonblast
Shore Up
Healing Wish
Heavy Slam
Leaf Storm
Superpower
Worry Seed
Wish
Toxic
Hidden Power
Sunny Day
Hyper Beam
Light Screen
Protect
Safeguard
Frustration
Solar Beam
Return
Double Team
Sandstorm
Facade
Flame Charge
Rest
Attract
Round
Focus Blast
Energy Ball
Brutal Swing
Explosion
Giga Impact
Bulldoze
Grass Knot
Swagger
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Dazzling Gleam
Confide
Snore
Low Kick
Uproar
Helping Hand
Last Resort
Recycle
After You
Role Play
Pain Split
Endeavor
Seed Bomb
Stomping Tantrum
Flower Shield
Teeter Dance
Petal Dance
Smelling Salts

Total = 68 moves

 

[Valzy]

I suggest banning all Rock type coverage, in order to preserve Mega Charizard Y as a counter

HP Rock already hits Charizard Y really hard. I don't think that adding say Ancient Power would add much unless one wanted to run both Ground and Rock coverage, but doing so would require forgoing Grass, Fairy, or Fire moves.

252+ SpA Whimsicott Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 248-296 (83.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[G-Luke]

HP Rock already hits Charizard Y really hard. I don't think that adding say Ancient Power would add much unless one wanted to run both Ground and Rock coverage, but doing so would require forgoing Grass, Fairy, or Fire moves.

252+ SpA Whimsicott Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 248-296 (83.5 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It does, but that comes at the cost of giving up other overall better Hidden Powers. If it this not the case, it run it and bust though on of its few counters (The CAP only has Four), so making sure it can't cheese past them is a must. If that means no Rock Slide, Ancient Power nor Rock Tomb, so be it

 

[FriesforNapkins]

Requesting a Legality Check on Nature's Madness, Lunge, Wild Charge, Foresight, Hold Back, Tickle and Rototiller