CAP 24 CAP 24 - Part 9 - Full Movepool Submissions

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WIP

Evo. - Vital Throw
Lv. 0 - Absorb
Lv. 0 - Tackle
Lv. 0 - Ingrain
Lv. 4 - Spite
Lv. 7 - Fairy Wind
Lv. 10 - Mega Drain
Lv. 13 - Bide
Lv. 16 - Worry Seed
Lv. 19 - Misty Terrain
Lv. 22 - Giga Drain
Lv. 25 - Bullet Seed
Lv. 31 - Pedal Dance
Lv. 34 - Shore Up
Lv. 37 - Moonblast
Lv. 40 - Solar Beam
Lv. 43 - Double Edge
Lv. 50 - Heavy Slam
 
G-Luke said:
i don't agree with the fact CAP 24 should lack things like Play Rough / Wood Hammer just because it has Belly Drum (not i am arguing specifically for Belly Drum, as SD does not seem flavourful at all to me). Belly Drum comes with ALOT of risk, and with a 63 Attack stat i don't think that having Belly Drum is all that harmful. The most that can happen is a hilarious SD Pyroak incident. I don't think it should strong physical Fire coverage tho.
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While I agree that the viability of Sword Dance/Belly Drum would be very limited, I'd rather not take the risk. I am willing to allow Wood Hammer+Belly Drum+Play Rough+Sword Dance, but a movepool with those will still need to be more restrictive than the ones without those moves. Take into account that I am willing to allow things things like strong physical Fighting moves for other submissions without Belly Drum/Sword Dance.

FriesforNapkins said:
Requesting a Legality Check on Nature's Madness, Lunge, Wild Charge, Foresight, Hold Back, Tickle and Rototiller
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Nature Madness is the only disallowed move on your list, the rest are allowed. However, no Pokemon is able to naturally learn Hold Back, so if you include it on your movepool, it should be an event-exclusive move
 
WIP

Evolve Heavy Slam
1 Tackle
1 Sand Attack
1 Leafage
1 Bullet Seed
4 Leafage
7 Bullet Seed
9 Fairy Wind
13 Razor Leaf
16 Morning Sun
19 Magical Leaf
21 Ingrain
25 Smelling Salts
28 Belly Drum
31 Moonblast
35 Body Slam
40 Shore Up
43 Wood Hammer
46 Solar Beam
50 Leaf Storm

Egg Groups: Grass and Human-Like
Healing Wish [Buneary]
Wish [Illumise]
Rototiller [Lopunny]
Flame Burst [Magmar]
Grassy Terrain [Oddish, Tangela, Roserade, Comfey]

TM01 Work Up
TM04 Calm Mind
TM06 Toxic
TM10 Hidden Power
TM11 Sunny Day
TM15 Hyper Beam
TM17 Protect
TM20 Safeguard
TM21 Frustration
TM22 Solar Beam
TM27 Return
TM32 Double Team
TM42 Facade
TM44 Rest
TM45 Attract
TM48 Round
TM52 Focus Blast
TM53 Energy Ball
TM64 Explosion
TM68 Giga Impact
TM78 Bulldoze
TM86 Grass Knot
TM87 Swagger
TM88 Sleep Talk
TM90 Substitute
TM92 Trick Room
TM99 Dazzling Gleam
TM100 Confide

Snore
Worry Seed
Giga Drain
Synthesis
Role Play
Focus Punch
Zen Headbutt
Seed Bomb
Magic Room
Wonder Room
Drain Punch

Total unique moves: 60
 
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Final Submission

N=New R=Repeats

HS Shore Up
HS Wish
Evolve Teeter Dance
1 Petal Dance
1 Arm Thrust
1 Sand Attack
1 Leafage
4 Ember
7 Fake Out
10 Fairy Wind
14 Stomp
17 Leaf Tornado
20 Ingrain
23 Body Slam
27 Sunny Day
30 Synthesis
33 Flame Burst
36 Solarbeam
40 Block
43 Grassy Terrain
46 Heavy Slam
49 Moonblast
50 Wood Hammer
53 Petal Dance
56 Leaf Storm
59 Healing Wish

All the Bolded words are mandatory moves.
All Italicized words are repeats.
The level-up movepool pattern that I use is a 3-3-3-4 until lvl 50 also I base it on to another grass type namely Tangrowth that every 10s gets a move.
I added Teeter dance as an Evo move if ever our CAP get a pre-evo but if not then its a heart scale move also I like it cause I see that our CAP some kind of mon that gleefully dance during battles or manipulate others thru dancing.
Adding Petal Dance to its movepool show some dancing theme.
I added Ember to its movepool for it to show that it can at least use small amount of fire to attack as well as to justify that it can learn Flame Burst.
I added moves like Arm Thrust, Fake Out, Stomp, Block, Body Slam and Heavy Slam to showcase it's Sumo like ability.
Added move Leafage and Leaf Tornado to showcase it evolution of power from attacking with few leaves to a summing a Leaf Tornado then to brew a Leaf Storm.

Aromatherapy (Vileplume, Chikorita, etc)
Disable (Cacnea chain breed)
Misty Terrain (Cottonee chain breed)
Moonlight (Oddish, Morelull)
Morning Sun (Cherubi)
Play Rough (Comfey)
Wide Guard (Paras, Turtwig chain breed)

I see CAP as a single egg group kind so I put it Grass as its group.
I added both Moonlight and Morning Sun here also to showcase that CAP can use both sunlight and moonlight powers.
I added Wide Guard to show its large body can use to protect others and Misty Terrain to showcase its mystic fairy power.

TM 06 Toxic
TM 10 Hidden Power
TM 11 Sunny Day
TM 15 Hyper Beam
TM 16 Light Screen
TM 17 Protect
TM 20 Safeguard
TM 21 Frustration
TM 22 Solar Beam
TM 27 Return
TM 31 Brick Break
TM 32 Double Team
TM 37 Sandstorm
TM 42 Facade
TM 44 Rest
TM 45 Attract
TM 47 Low Sweep
TM 48 Round
TM 52 Focus Blast
TM 53 Energy Ball
TM 59 Brutal Swing
TM 60 Quash
TM 64 Explosion
TM 68 Giga Impact
TM 77 Psych Up
TM 78 Bulldoze
TM 86 Grass Knot
TM 87 Swagger
TM 88 Sleep Talk
TM 90 Substitute
TM 99 Dazzling Gleam
TM 100 Confide

All the Bolded words are mandatory moves.
All the Italicized words are repeats.
I added Sandstorm to showcase it ability to manipulate the weather.
Added moves like Bulldoze, Low Sweep, Brutal Swing and Brick Break to showcase its Sumo like ability.
Added Explosion due sometime large tree-like creature tend to explode like Exeggutor.

After You
Block
Giga Drain
Helping Hand
Low Kick
Magic Coat
Seed Bomb
Snore
Superpower
Synthesis
Uproar
Worry Seed

All the Bolded words are mandatory moves.
All the Italicized words are repeats.
Added moves like Low Kick and Superpower to again showcase its Sumo style skill.
Added moves Helping Hand and After You to show how supportive CAP is.

Total:72
 
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Final Submission

1 Fake Out
1 Fairy Wind
1 Mega Drain
4 Ingrain
8 Safeguard
12 Wish
15 Magical Leaf
19 Body Slam
23 Shore Up
26 Wide Guard
30 Heavy Slam
34 Dazzling Gleam
37 Giga Drain
41 Synthesis
45 Aromatherapy
48 Moonblast
51 Heal Pulse
55 Psychic Terrain
58 Healing Wish
62 Leaf Storm

Work Up
Toxic
Bulk Up
Hidden Power
Sunny Day
Hyper Beam
Light Screen
Safeguard
Frustration
Solar Beam
Return
Brick Break
Double Team
Sandstorm
Torment
Facade
Rest
Attract
Low Sweep
Round
Echoed Voice
Focus Blast
Energy Ball
Brutal Swing
Quash
Payback
Giga Impact
Psych Up
Grass Knot
Swagger
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Flash Cannon
Dark Pulse
Dazzling Gleam
Confide

Mud Shot
Worry Seed
Wood Hammer
Brine
Flame Burst
Grassy Terrain
Aromatic Mist

Snore
Low Kick
Uproar
Helping Hand
Worry Seed
Snatch
Recycle
Giga Drain
Synthesis
Signal Beam
Gravity
Seed Bomb
Magic Coat
Superpower
Total: 72

A few of the move (namely Fake Out, Wide Guard and Brine) comes from Hariyama having these to fit the sumo motif.

I decided not to include Misty Terrain as Safeguard also prevents status anyway, and the power reduction from Dragon-type attack isn't a priority for CAP 24. Instead, I added Psychic Terrain for blocking priority moves.

Since only Ground-type attack with over 60 Power is forbidden, I include Mud Shot to CAP 24 as it's only 5 points shy of being 60. It probably would get forbidden later as it drops the target's speed and Mud Shot is a special move.

Change log:
Remove a number of moves as they either are forbidden for this CAP or exceed the 75 moves limit.
Removed Sludge Bomb, added back Quash. Recalculated for repeated moves.
Removed Spikes (oops)
Added Heavy Slam
Removed Reflect, bolded important moves
Adding a number of Dark-type as well as a few of tutor moves
Added Wood Hammer, removed some of them, italicized repeated move
Removed the mentioned moves, added flavor moves
 
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Final Submission

Evo-Aromatherapy
HS-Wish
1-Shore Up
1-Razor Leaf
1-Tackle
1-Arm Thrust
6-Sweet Scent
10-Stomp
16-Magical Leaf
21-Arm Thrust
26-Leaf Tornado
30-Ingrain
36-Body Slam
41-Sunny Day
46-Synthesis
50-Moonblast
56-Solar Beam
61-Leaf Storm

Aromatherapy was chosen as the Evolution move since the Shimenawa around its neck is used for ritual purification, so Aromatherapy makes perfect sense as an evolution move.

Egg Groups: [Grass]/[Monster]
-Flame Burst
-Grassy Terrain
-Healing Wish
-Wide Guard
-Quick Guard
TM 06 Toxic
TM 10 Hidden Power
TM 11 Sunny Day
TM 15 Hyper Beam
TM 16 Light Screen
TM 17 Protect
TM 20 Safeguard
TM 21 Frustration
TM 22 Solar Beam
TM 27 Return
TM 31 Brick Break
TM 32 Double Team
TM 34 Swagger
TM 37 Sandstorm
TM 42 Facade
TM 48 Round
TM 52 Focus Blast
TM 53 Energy Ball
TM 68 Giga Impact
TM 88 Sleep Talk
TM 90 Substitute
TM 99 Dazzling Gleam
TM 100 Confide
Snore
Synthesis
Helping Hand
Worry Seed
Giga Drain
Fire Punch
Focus Punch
Seed Bomb
Drain Punch
Superpower

Total: 55
 
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Requesting a Legality Check on Recycle, Water Sport, Bubble, Sludge, Sandstorm, Laser Focus and Superpower on non-attack-boosting submissions. (sorry)
 
Requesting a Legality Check on Pain Split, Magic Coat, Counter and Mirror Coat
 
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Asking for legality on Sand Tomb or partial trapping in general.

WIP

HS Shore Up
HS Healing Wish
1 Tackle
1 Leafage
1 Endure
5 Fairy Wind
9 Ingrain
14 Magical Leaf
18 Take Down
22 Synthesis
27 Sunny Day
32 Body Slam
37 Energy Ball
43 Wide Guard
48 Moonblast
53 Heal Pulse
59 Solar Beam
64 Leaf Storm

Aromatherapy (Vileplume/Meganium/Tsareena)
Flame Burst (Charizard/Salazzle)
Giga Drain (Take Your Pick)
Grassy Terrain
Wish

Is late will add rest once I sleep
 
Final Submission

Legend:
Required Move: *
Repeating Move: ^

Evolve: Flame Wheel
L0/HS - Rototiller
L0/HS– Leaf Storm*
L0/HS– Flame Burst*
L0/HS – Sunny Day
L0/HS – Petal Dance
L0/HS – Teeter Dance
L0 – Natural Gift
L0 – Stomp
L0 – Absorb
L0 – Fairy Wind
L4 – Sweet Scent
L8 – Draining Kiss
L11 – Magical Leaf
L14 – Seed Bomb
L16 – Aromatherapy
L19 – Wish*
L24 – Sunny Day^
L28 – Helping Hand
L33 – Moonblast*
L37 – Flame Wheel^
L38 – Ingrain
L44 – Shore Up*
L49 – Play Rough
L55 – Solar Beam*
L60 – Petal Dance^
Total Unique Moves: 23
Jumbao's Level-Up pool has a few unique elements. The Heart Scale moves contain some powerful mystical moves in Leaf Storm and Flame Burst as well as Dance themed moves like Petal Dance, Teeter Dance, and yes, Stomp. Rototiller is an appropriate move for a large tree that would need significant space to be planted. Natural Gift was added because Jumbao is a tropical / arid zone tree not unlike Exeggutor in climate. I chose Flame Wheel as the evolution move because it was symbolic to me that Jumbao would surround itself in an otherwise dangerous element for both grass and fairy types in order to grow to its next stage. Flames are also used in a number of rituals and dances in Alola, as can be seen in Alolan Marowak. The lower level moves are all safe Grass and Fairy moves for a Pokemon just learning. Once it embraces dangerous elements, it then learns natural strategies to combat its harsh desert environment like Ingrain, and Shore Up. Having toughened itself up, it then learns Play Rough and caps off it's movepool with Solar Beam and Petal Dance to complete it's natural cycle.

Egg Group: Grass / Fairy
Bullet Seed (Exeggutor/Whimsicott)
Smelling Salts (Cacturne / Granbull)
Healing Wish* (Clefable/Lilligant)
Metronome (Clefable/Granbull)
Misty Terrain (Audino/Whimsicott)
Wood Hammer (Exeggutor/Torterra)
Total Unique Moves: 6
Egg move selections are a few choices from Grass and Fairy that cement Jumbao as a mysterious Pokemon with a few odd abilities, Smelling Salts to build on the sumo theme, Healing Wish as an expansion to it's natural Wish, Metronome so Jumbao can keep time with its dance moves, Misty Terrain as a way to make itself at home, and Wood Hammer to emphasize its physical characteristics.

TMs:
TM 06 Toxic*
TM 07 Hail
TM 10 Hidden Power*
TM 11 Sunny Day^
TM 15 Hyper Beam*
TM 16 Light Screen*
TM 17 Protect*
TM 20 Safeguard
TM 21 Frustration*
TM 22 Solar Beam^*
TM 27 Return*
TM 32 Double Team*
TM 37 Sandstorm
TM 42 Facade*
TM 44 Rest*
TM 45 Attract*
TM 47 Low Sweep
TM 48 Round*
TM 52 Focus Blast*
TM 53 Energy Ball*
TM 64 Explosion
TM 68 Giga Impact*
TM 74 Gyro Ball
TM 77 Psych Up
TM 78 Bulldoze
TM 86 Grass Knot
TM 87 Swagger*
TM 88 Sleep Talk*
TM 90 Substitute*
TM 99 Dazzling Gleam
TM 100 Confide*
Total Unique Moves: 29
TMs come in a few categories. It has the mandatory moves and the general Grass and Fairy TMs of course, and then most of its other moves center around being heavy and a few sumo battling qualities like Bulldoze, Low Sweep, and Gyro Ball. I have also included both Hail and Sandstorm as homage to the non-Rain weather concept of this CAP. Since Weather Ball is banned they present no additional coverage opportunities and are pure flavor. Finally, it has Explosion because as anyone who plays Earthbound knows, all dangerous trees are actually disguised high explosives. We also have Flame Burst as mandatory so Explosion seems a natural fit.

Tutors:
Block
Covet
Giga Drain
Helping Hand^
Low Kick
Magic Room
Recycle
Seed Bomb^
Snore*
Synthesis*
Uproar
Worry Seed
Total Unique Moves: 10
Tutors include the mandatory moves as well as Grass attacks, Low Kick to continue the pseudo-Sumo theme, Magic Room for the mysterious theme, Covet for the general mischievousness of Fairies, Recycle because Jumbao is environmentally conscious and literally environmental, and Block because heavy Pokemon tend to get it.

23 + 6 + 29 + 10 = 68 Unique Moves

Flavor Moves either with marginal competitive value or that set the submission apart from others.
Aromatherapy
Bulldoze
Flame Wheel
Explosion
Gyro Ball
Hail
Ingrain
Low Sweep
Low Kick
Magic Room
Metronome
Misty Terrain
Natural Gift
Petal Dance
Play Rough
Psych Up
Recycle
Rototiller
Sandstorm
Smelling Salts
Teeter Dance
Wood Hammer
No punching moves, Swords Dance, or stat-ups outside of Rototiller's Grass-specific field boost. No Grassy Terrain as it has a very negative interaction with Earthquake, a key move on Excadrill, Hippowdon, and some Tyranitar sets.
Absorb
Aromatherapy
Attract*
Block
Bulldoze
Bullet Seed
Confide*
Covet
Dazzling Gleam
Double Team*
Draining Kiss
Energy Ball*
Explosion
Facade*
Fairy Wind
Flame Burst*
Flame Wheel^
Focus Blast*
Frustration*
Giga Drain
Giga Impact*
Grass Knot
Gyro Ball
Hail
Healing Wish*
Helping Hand^
Hidden Power*
Hyper Beam*
Ingrain
Leaf Storm*
Light Screen*
Low Kick
Low Sweep
Magic Room
Magical Leaf
Metronome
Misty Terrain
Moonblast*
Natural Gift
Petal Dance^
Play Rough
Protect*
Psych Up
Recycle
Rest*
Return*
Rototiller
Round*
Safeguard
Sandstorm
Seed Bomb^
Shore Up*
Sleep Talk*
Smelling Salts
Snore*
Solar Beam^*
Stomp
Substitute*
Sunny Day^
Swagger
Sweet Scent
Synthesis*
Teeter Dance
Toxic*
Uproar
Wish*
Wood Hammer
Worry Seed
Total: 68 Unique Moves
 
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FINAL SUBMISSION

Level-Up Moves
L1: Shore Up, Moonblast, Energy Ball, Healing Wish, Needle Arm, Flail, Twineedle, Ember, Disarming Voice
L3: Tearful Look
L5: Ember
L9: Disarming Voice
L13: Draining Kiss
L15: Fire Spin
L17: Fake Tears
L21: Sunny Day
L25: Flame Burst
L29: Magical Leaf
L35: Psywave
L43: Light Screen
L57: Moonblast
L65: Energy Ball
L69: Shore Up
L75: Misty Terrain
L80: Leaf Storm

TMs
TM01: Work Up
TM06: Toxic
TM09: Venoshock
TM10: Hidden Power
TM11: Sunny Day
TM15: Hyper Beam
TM16: Light Screen
TM17: Protect
TM18: Rain Dance
TM20: Safeguard
TM21: Frustration
TM22: Solar Beam
TM27: Return
TM28: Leech Life
TM31: Brick Break
TM32: Double Team
TM34: Sludge Wave
TM36: Sludge Bomb
TM37: Sandstorm
TM42: Facade
TM43: Flame Charge
TM44: Rest
TM45: Attract
TM46: Thief
TM48: Round
TM52: Focus Blast
TM53: Energy Ball
TM57: Charge Beam
TM59: Brutal Swing
TM63: Embargo
TM66: Payback
TM68: Giga Impact
TM78: Bulldoze
TM83: Infestation
TM84: Poison Jab
TM85: Dream Eater
TM86: Grass Knot
TM87: Swagger
TM88: Sleep Talk
TM90: Substitute
TM99: Dazzling Gleam
TM100: Confide

Egg Moves (Grass & Human-Like)
Aromatherapy
Aura Sphere
Belly Drum
Grassy Terrain
Petal Dance
Play Rough
Spiky Shield
Wish
Wood Hammer

Tutor Moves
Ally Switch
Electroweb
Fire Punch
Foul Play
Giga Drain
Gunk Shot
Laser Focus
Seed Bomb
Shock Wave
Snatch
Snore
Spite
Synthesis
Telekinesis
Throat Chop
Thunder Punch
Worry Seed
 
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FriesforNapkins said:
Requesting a Legality Check on Recycle, Water Sport, Bubble, Sludge, Sandstorm, Laser Focus and Superpower on non-attack-boosting submissions. (sorry)
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Stitch98 said:
Requedting legality check on Heavy Slam and Circle Throw.
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FriesforNapkins said:
Requesting a Legality Check on Recycle, Water Sport, Bubble, Sludge, Sandstorm, Laser Focus and Superpower on non-attack-boosting submissions. (sorry)
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MaahirMomtaz12 said:
Need a legality check on Psywave cause its BP can be less than or greater than 60. Also requesting legality check on trapping moves like Fire Spin and Infestation.
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porg_111 said:
Requesting a Legality Check on Pain Split, Magic Coat, Counter and Mirror Coat
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All these moves are allowed, with the exception of Mirror Coat.
 
mxmts said:
All these moves are allowed, with the exception of Mirror Coat.
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Arguably Counter is the more problematic of the two damage returning moves, as CAP can survive things like Scizor Bullet Punch and Counter back for a KO. Circle Throw provides phazing support which is really a competitive support effect that wasn't discussed.

I believe earlier you also allowed Rototiller even though in the competitive threads, +1 boosters were discussed in a negative light, though mostly in the context of strong fire coverage against counters. I just want to make sure we're remaining consistent with our earlier competitive discussions and not devolving into the problem with a lot of the Movepool process prior to our current system where vastly different competitive side moves differentiated full movepools heavily.
 
Deck Knight said:
Arguably Counter is the more problematic of the two damage returning moves, as CAP can survive things like Scizor Bullet Punch and Counter back for a KO. Circle Throw provides phazing support which is really a competitive support effect that wasn't discussed.

I believe earlier you also allowed Rototiller even though in the competitive threads, +1 boosters were discussed in a negative light, though mostly in the context of strong fire coverage against counters. I just want to make sure we're remaining consistent with our earlier competitive discussions and not devolving into the problem with a lot of the Movepool process prior to our current system where vastly different competitive side moves differentiated full movepools heavily.
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Rototiller: Most people in the last thread agreed that the competitive impact of this move would be negligible. Moves that only provide +1 stat boost to attack are very rarely used, and I fail to see why CAP 24 would be the exception.

Counter: While this move allows us to OHKO things like Scizor, we're already able to do the same with Flame Burst, so I don't really buy that CAP 24 would chose to run this move, which is so reliant on prediction, instead of a more reliable coverage move like Flame Burst or HP Ground. Not only that, but as Mirror Coat is banned, after you use Counter once in a battle, your opponent will simply start using special attacks, rendering your strategy useless.

Circle Throw/Phazing moves: I think this is certainly the most important of your points. I personally think that this types of moves are fine, because CAP 24 has a pretty good SpA attack, so it can pressure most set-up sweepers well enough, making these type of moves outclassed by other utility options, coverage, or simply by Toxic. That being said, this is still a pretty borderline case, so I am willing to disallow this if more people are against it.

Also, I am banning the two moves I mentioned yesterday, Trick Room and Calm Mind.
 
mxmts said:
Also, I am banning the two moves I mentioned yesterday, Trick Room and Calm Mind.
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Care to further explain your reasoning for the trick room and calm mind bans? The way you've just tacked it on with no real reasoning makes it seem like a decision made out of personal preference.
 
Wulfanator72 said:
Care to further explain your reasoning for the trick room and calm mind bans? The way you've just tacked it on with no real reasoning makes it seem like a decision made out of personal preference.
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I had already mentioned those two as moves that I found problematic, here's the reasoning I gave:

mxmts said:
Trick Room: This move (and this archetype in general) flew completely under our radar until now, so I think that now that a few submissions have included it, it's a good time to talk about it. While 96 is not an ideal Speed stat for TR, has found a place in this playstyle with an almost identical stat. Not only that, but CAP 24 has pretty good synergy with pre-existing abusers, as most of its abusers are weak to Ground, which we resist, and both A-Marowak and M-Camerupt really appreciate having Drought support on their team.

Calm Mind: Another move that was never mentioned in the last thread, I don't find it a particularly useful addition, as using one of our moveslots for this would mean forsaking valuable coverage, and we can achieve similar power by simply using Choice Specs. However, unlike other moves like Rototiller, this is a genuinely competitive move, so I'd like to hear more people talk about it before I officially allow it.
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I wrote that on Saturday, and only one post since then mentioned them, talking in a negative light about Calm Mind. As both moves have clearly competitive uses, and no one had defended them, I've decided to disallow them. If you believe that one of them should be allowed, please post your reasoning here in this thread.
 
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