CAP 24 CAP 24 - Part 9 - Moves Poll

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Quanyails

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Hi all! As a result of the moveset discussion, we will be voting on a few controversial moves. Make sure that you read the moveset discussion here to understand the consequences of voting for or against these options.

The controversial moves we will be voting on are listed below. Spell the move and its qualifying include/do not include as you see it below when posting. Do not vote to both include and not include the same move, as that is nonsensical and will result in your vote being deleted. This is NOT a flavor poll; it is a competitive poll. Flavor movepool submission and voting will happen at a later time.
Include Defog
Do Not Include Defog
Include Flame Burst
Do Not Include Flame Burst
This poll operates on the multiple bold voting standard, which is detailed here. Make sure to bold your votes and nothing else. A typical vote looks like this:
Vote A
Vote B
Vote C

Any comments that the voter has would go below the votes in non-bold text. Bold text is used to determine what the user's votes are, so none of the supplementary text should be in bold.
CAP uses automated scripts to count votes. For this reason, it is very important for all ballots to be submitted correctly. If you do not compose a legal ballot, your post will be subject to moderation.
  • The scripts count bold words in ballots, so do NOT bold anything in your ballot other than the options you are voting for.
  • Do NOT put any formatting other than bold in your post.
  • Only one option per line.
  • Spelling of options must be EXACTLY correct and must match the spelling listed above.
  • Capitalization and spaces are ignored by the vote counting scripts, but you probably should not depend on it.
Composing a proper ballot is easy. Enter BBCode Edit Mode (the wrench in the upper right corner). Copy/paste the options directly from the OP to your ballot as plain unbolded text. Delete and/or rearrange the options to suit your preference and the poll type. Bold your vote text using bold tags or re-enter rich text mode, highlight your vote and click B. Spelling or formatting errors may spoil your ballot, so be careful!

The following movesets have already been decided on, and the included moves required, as of the previous discussion. Take this into account when making your votes.
Name: Offensive Drought Setter
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: [Fire Coverage] / Hidden Power Ground / Focus Blast
Move 3: [Fire Coverage] / Hidden Power Ground / Focus Blast
Move 4: Synthesis / Healing Wish
Ability: Drought
Item: Fightinium Z / Life Orb / Heat Rock
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

Name: Grassium Z
Move 1: Solar Beam / Leaf Storm
Move 2: Moonblast
Move 3: [Fire Coverage] / Hidden Power Ground / Focus Blast
Move 4: Synthesis / Shore Up
Ability: Drought / Trace
Item: Grassium Z
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Speed
Nature: Modest

Name: Choice Scarf
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: [Fire Coverage] / Hidden Power Ground / Focus Blast
Move 3: [Fire Coverage] / Hidden Power Ground / Focus Blast
Move 4: Solar Beam / Leaf Storm
Ability: Drought / Trace
Item: Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

Name: Utility
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: [Fire Coverage] / Hidden Power Ground / Focus Blast
Move 3: Wish / Healing Wish / Light Screen
Move 4: Shore up / Synthesis
Ability: Trace / Drought
Item: Leftovers / Heat Rock / Fightinium-Z
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

Name: Choice Specs
Move 1: Moonblast
Move 2: [Fire Coverage] / Hidden Power Ground / Focus Blast
Move 3: [Fire Coverage] / Hidden Power Ground / Focus Blast
Move 4: Solar Beam / Energy Ball / Leaf Storm
Ability: Drought / Trace
Item: Choice Specs
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid / Modest
In addition, the following moves have been deemed other options that will also be required:
Shore Up
Synthesis
Moonblast
Focus Blast
Solar Beam
Healing Wish
Leaf Storm
Energy Ball
Wish
Light Screen
This poll will be open for 24 hours.

--------------------

CAP 24 So far:

Topic Leader: Drapionswing

Topic Leadership Team:
SHSP
: Typing Leader
Drew: Ability Leader
reachzero: Stats Leader
mxmts: Movepool Leader

Concept:
Drew said:
  • Name - Snow or Shine (or Sand)
  • Description - A Pokemon that abuses 2 weather conditions for different effects
  • Justification - Currently in CAP, there is only one form of weather that is really worth using: rain, and only one really type of weather abuser: offensive sweeper. This concept means to address both of these issues by creating a new niche for two weather conditions. This concept would fill the archetype of a weather abuser, but I feel it also fits into the Actualization category as it would also aim to create a new role for a weather abuser for 1 or more different weather conditions.
  • Questions To Be Answered
    • Why are hail, sun, and sand underrepresented in the current metagame?
    • What makes rain the best weather condition currently?
    • How can this CAP encourage the use of other weather conditions? What do hail, sun, and/or sand need? Sweepers? Setters? Walls?
    • What weather effects are underutilized? How can we successfully use these effects?
    • How can one Pokemon utilize different weather conditions for different effects and sets?
    • Should this Pokemon be able to function outside of weather-based teams? If so, what niche would it need to fulfill? If it sets it's own weather, is it enough to abuse the weather condition on its own?
  • Explanation - For those who don't fully see how a not-sweeper weather abuser could work, take Lileep in LC for example. Lileep, mainly back in BW and XY as sand is quite uncommon in SM, is on most sand teams, as it can abuse its Rock-typing to boost Special Defense, the passive damage from sand, and its access to Recover and Toxic to become a weather abusing wall. Another possible interaction would be running Ferrothorn on rain teams to semi-nullify its Fire weakness. Not only typings are underexplored though! There are many moves, items, and of course abilities that can be used to abuse different weather conditions in a way that no Pokemon really does currently.
Threatlist said:
Pokemon we want to beat:

Sun:
Heatran, Crawdaunt, Latios, Mega Latios, Pajantom, Zygarde,

Sand:
Heatran, Landorus-T, Tapu Bulu, Tomohawk


Pokemon we want to pressure/threaten:
Mega Mawille, Cawmodore, Ash Greninja, Kartana, Marowak-Alola, Celesteela

Pokemon we want to check Cap24:
Fire-Types: Volcarona, Marowak-Alola, Pyroak(Sand), Blacephalon, Victini
Steel Types: Mega Scizor, Excadrill, Magearna(Sand)
Poison Types: Plasmanta, Mollux, Crucibelle, Mega Crucibelle, Toxapex, Mega Venusaur(Sun)
Priority Users: Kitsunoh, Mega Pinsir, Mega Scizor, Syclant, Cawmodore
Other: Mega Alakazam, Hawlucha

Pokemon we want to counter Cap24:
Mega Venusaur(Sand)
Mega Charizard Y
Pyroak(Sun)
Chansey
Typing: Grass/Fairy
Abilities: Drought/Trace
Stats: 92 HP / 63 Atk / 97 Def / 124 SpA / 104 SpD / 96 Spe

Weight: ≥500 kg
 
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Dogfish44

You can call me Jiggly
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Include Defog
Include Flame Burst


Still irate that Reflect (with literally no debate either way or indication that it would be banned and needed to be discussed first - it was so suddenly removed that I actually did a spit-take), Nature Power and Mystical Fire didn't each move to vote. The last of those three is the most egregious - a vote on Flame Burst is a vote on something which isn't controversial imho (As anyone who's currently reading through the thread will spot from the number in favour of inclusion), votes on Mystical Fire or Overheat (or both !!) would have been a lot more enlightening on the consensus on moves which were still being debated till quite literally the last post of the thread.

iunno, I feel like the point behind voting on "controversial" moves has been missed somewhat, with the exception of Defog.
 
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S. Court

[Takes hits in Spanish]
is a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
Do Not Include Defog
Include Flame Burst


Defog is not THAT bad compared with Rapid Spin for what we want, but I think it's still unnecessary role compresion.
 
Do Not Include Defog
Include Flame Burst


I don’t care either way about Defog frankly. It’s useful, but I wouldn’t go nuts if Defog didn’t happen.
 
Include Defog
Do not include Flame Burst


By giving CAP24 Fire coverage without the Hidden Power slot, it would be able to run Hidden Power Ground, which heavily threatens or outright KOs stuff like Plasmanta and Mollux who are meant to check us. This is especially the case for Mollux as it is slower than us; Plasmanta just loses the safe switch-in. I guess threatening Heatran without having to rely on Focus Miss is nice but overall it isn't worth it.
 
Do Not Include Defog
Include Flame Burst


Cap 24 desperately needs a way to touch celesteela, a mon its supposed to pressure and hpfire is NOT gonna cut it
252 SpA Tapu Bulu Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 156 SpD Celesteela: 110-130 (27.7 - 32.7%) -- 74.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Thats literally a 5-6KHO if we include the protects in the scenario, celesteela fears nothing from this mon so flame burst alleviates this a bit

Also, defog is unnecessary it just adds too much role compression to an already great mon in theory
 
Include Defog
Include Flame Burst


Edit: I think it's really silly that we weren't given a better fire coverage option (especially for a mon with drought) like Flamethrower, Heat Wave or Weather Ball (Weather Ball would have been perfect!) . How about we actually make a CAP that isn't a mediocre competitive mon for a change? Flame Burst? Give me a break..
 
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Do Not Include Defog
Include Flame Burst


Disappointing that the topic leader has taken away the public's right to weigh in on the fire coverage debate by unilaterally declaring that Flame Burst is all we can have. We're supposed to be voting on controversial moves. Flame Burst is the exact opposite, there is an overwhelming consensus that it's not overpowered. The actual controversy surrounds the moves Flamethrower, Mystical Fire, Overheat and Heat Wave and whether these are overpowered. The vote on Flame Burst is nothing but a token gesture to make you feel like you've had a say in this debate, when you actually haven't.
 
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