CAP 25 - Part 1 - Framework Submissions

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Birkal

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CAP Head Mod
#1
WARNING
The following thread is intentionally designed as an offshoot of the typical Create-A-Pokemon Project. If you are new to the CAP Project, please read through previous processes to gain a full understanding of what is different here. If you are familiar with the CAP Process, give this policy thread a good read. Join us on Discord if you have any further questions!

https://discord.gg/6YC7Ab


Hello everyone and welcome to twenty-fifth iteration of the Create-A-Pokemon Project. Unlike all other CAPs, this CAP is a Celebration CAP, meaning that it will be allowed to break some of the previous conventions we have for Pokemon creation. As a result, this thread will be for framework submissions to determine which rules we would like to break. This is new territory for the CAP Project, so the moderators ask that we as a community exhibit a heightened sense of patience and understanding. As always, please read all of the rules before making your post.

We will adhere to the following for the duration of CAP25:
  • This Pokemon will be playable in the CAP Metagame. Furthermore, it will be reasonably balanced for competitive battles, specifically not a broken threat that negatively centralizes the metagame.
  • The creation of this Pokemon will ONLY break CAP creation guidelines based on the Framework we select. For example, if we choose to create a Pokemon with an illegal ability as our Framework, we will not also allow a custom move for it during Movepool Submissions.
  • This creation will not allow any non-intuitive custom elements. This includes custom typings, abilities with entirely new mechanics, or moves with entirely new mechanics. For example, an ability that changes a Pokémon's form based on terrain would be allowed, but not an ability that summons a new type of weather.
  • This creation will be designed with positive optics in mind. As this Pokemon will join the past 24 Pokemon in our playable metagame, it needs to be something we are proud of presenting to the public.
  • This Pokemon will have a Framework that alters, at maximum, two stages of the process. An example of this would be a framework that dictates CAP25's typing and primary ability. An illegal Framework would also mandate a specific stat bias on top of those restrictions. Furthermore, the two stages trivialized must be linked (e.g. an Ultra Beast that requires Beast Boost and a 570 BST).

For a fully detailed list of reasoning for each of these rules, please consult this thread. Other rules that will continue for Framework Submissions are as follows:
  • One submission per person. You may edit your Framework, but you may not change the fundamental premise after it has been posted. If editing your Framework, please edit the original post instead of posting a new revision. Do not bump your Framework after you have posted it. If people do not comment on it, so be it.
  • Do not duplicate or closely-resemble Framework already posted by others. It is your responsibility to read through all previous submissions in this thread to ensure you are complying with this rule. Ignorance or laziness is not an excuse.
  • Do not refer to any part of the Pokemon's artistic design. For example, the following phrases would be illegal:
"This is a bright blue Pokemon..."​
"The Pokemon looks like a..."​
"The Pokemon uses its long tail to..."​
  • A Framework Submission must be submitted in the proper format. The format is described below. If the proper format is not used, the moderators will not evaluate the submission, regardless of content.

Framework Submission Format

Use this format for all concept submissions: Here is the format with tags. Just copy/paste this into your post, and fill it out:
  • Name - Unlike Concept Submissions, your name CANNOT be anything cutesy. Please list EXACTLY which process rule(s) you intend to break with the name. Some examples would be "Multitype CAP" and "Ultra Beast CAP."
  • Description - This is the official description of the concept, and must follow ALL the content rules listed above. Do not make this a long description. Long descriptions are invariably too specific or too convoluted. Keep it short. Any more than a sentence or two is TOO MUCH. Do NOT include your Explanation of the concept in the Description. See "Explanation" below.
  • Explanation - This can contain just about anything. This is where you can explain your concept without restraint. You may make suggestions, even specific suggestions, regarding the possible implementation of the Framework. This explanation should help facilitate discussion of the Framework -- but the Explanation is NOT part of the Framework and will be omitted from the polls and any future use of the Framework. Since your explanation is non-binding, regarding future polls and threads, it will not be evaluated for purposes of determining if your Framework is legal or illegal. Although it is tempting, refrain from making too long of an explanation; it will deter readers from fully considering your Framework.
It is the submitter's responsibility to figure out how to make a legal submission within the rules listed above. Do not complain about the difficulty of making a submission in this thread. There are many, many legal Frameworks that can be presented within the rules. The Framework is a very basic guide for the creation process. It is hard to provide solid concept descriptions without basically designing the entire Pokemon right off the bat. Submissions should be written and chosen very carefully to avoid these problems.

In one week's time, the CAP moderators will make a large slate of CAP25 Frameworks into a large, multibold vote, similar to Art Poll 1. In order to be slated, make sure that you are following the guidelines listed above.

Best of luck, and enjoy our celebration!
 

reachzero

the pastor of disaster
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Moderator
#2
Name: Base 255 Speed

Description - This Pokemon has a base Speed stat of 255.

Explanation - Speed is an incredibly important factor in Pokemon, affecting sweepiness, ability to get utility moves like Screens and hazards up, Taunt, etc. Power creep is real in Pokemon, and 255 is the fastest a Pokemon could ever go; only priority moves could ever go before it. An advantage of this framework would be that it could be accounted for easily throughout the process without restricting the possible concepts very greatly.
 
#3
Name - No Weakness CAP

Description - The Pokemon lacks weaknesses through a combination of Typing and Ability.

Explanation - Weaknesses are often a thing people consider a lot for what moves they use. A Magearna might get STAB from Fleur Cannon, but if the opponent is gonna switch into LandoT, they're gonna use Ice Beam. But what if, instead of thinking about typing as much, you just have to think about using sheer power to defeat the mon? Suddenly typing matters less, only mattering about your own pokemons weaknesses. I think there were 7 combinations resulting in this without custom abilities, and about 10 if custom abilities were to be allowed. (Such as a dark-immunity ability for Normal/Ghost)
 
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#4
  • Name - Orb-Based Form Change
  • Description - This Pokemon adopts a different form when holding orb item(s). This is not a dynamic form change that occurs in-battle.
  • Explanation - While a single pokemon allows us to pinpoint an exact purpose in the CAP metagame, this type of form change allows us to explore the full range of functionality for the static elements. For instance Giratina and Giratina-O (Griseous Orb) are great examples of how the static elements (movepool, HP, speed, typing) can be fit into different roles with an ability change and rearrangement of offensive/defensive stats. This framework is interesting because every CAP process has multiple solutions, and this allows us to explore more than one- it also is an item-based framework which means exploration of itemization and value of the item slot- for instance Primal Kyogre can take up a Blue Orb to improve all of its stats, but also must sacrifice item flexibility. Whether this is a single form change or multiple remains to be decided.
    Some examples of orbs that could be used:

    Otherwise useless orbs: Griseous Orb, Red Orb, Blue Orb, Adamant Orb, Lustrous Orb
    Useful orbs: Life Orb, Adrenaline Orb
    Harmful orbs: Flame Orb, Toxic Orb
 
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#5
Name - Drive User

Description - This Pokemon is designed to make use of drives, both by using Techno Blast, and a custom ability that provides a different bonus for each drive.

Explanation - Techno Blast is a powerful and versatile move, giving its user access to a 120 base power coverage move in exchange for its item. The main issue with the move, is that Genesect already has all the coverage it could ever want, rendering the move pointless on it. This CAP would explore the move, which opens up many possibilities. The CAP could be a normal type which can give up its main stab to gain coverage against it main counters, or a mixed sweeper with very different checks and counters depending on its choice of drive.
The ability on the other hand, could be several things. It could change one of the pokemon's types to match the drive, or it could offer boosts to different stats, or even simply provide immunity to the drive's type.

Edit: Added a custom ability, as the original framework seemed a little vanilla.
 
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#6
Name: Mascot Legendary Duo

Description: A pair of legendary Pokemon each with a custom move and where both Pokemon have the same(but rearranged) base stats as each other that add up to 680.

Explanation: The idea behind this framework is not to just make something that wouldn't normally be made through the CAP process, but to create a pair of Pokemon that represents the Create-a-Pokemon project. And what is the most recognizable aspect of every Pokemon game? Its mascot. So what better way to represent CAP than with its very own mascot legendaries. This framework will allow us to create two Pokemon that can't be made using the normal CAP process while also allowing for even more creativity because of the custom signature moves and the lack of tight constraints on any part of the process.
 
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#7
Name - New Typing Combination

Description - This Pokémon effectively uses a typing combination never before seen on another Pokémon, including CAPs

Explanation - Typing is a cornerstone of any Pokémon's viability, but with 18 types, that leaves 324 combinations, with many yet to be implemented. This framework will allow us to explore those remaining possibilities with a 100% guarantee of something radically new, which doesn't always occur in a standard CAP process. Additionally, it will grant us further understanding into the competitive potential of Pokémon adopting typings that fans have long wanted, but never received. In terms of limits this framework is minimally intrusive, only providing a slight limit on typing.

Some example questions to ask when considering this framework are:
What should a dual typing prioritize to be competitive: Resistances? STAB Offenses? Immunities? Something else?
How does a Pokémon most capitalize on its typing?
Do certain typings lend themselves to particular items and abilities? If so, why?
 
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#8
  • Name - Form Change Upon Consumption
  • Description - This Pokémon has an alternate form, which is triggered by consuming its held item.
  • Explanation - The Pokémon has a means of changing forme when consuming its held item. This could be any held item, though we could also limit to specific sets of items to encourage use of those items (for example, berries). I think the best way to handle forme change is through an ability, which would function similar to Unburden, or abilities like Cheek Pouch. With this framework, we could potentially pave the way for lesser used items to become useful in some way, and have one Pokémon perform different roles depending on the changes we make when form changing and the accessibility.
 
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Birkal

We have the technology.
is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnus
CAP Head Mod
#9
I've also got a question for the mods:

Would custom moves count as altering a third aspect? My idea is that custom moves would be discussed either before or during the movepool step and not mandated before, but I won't add that in if it would make my framework suggestion illegal.
Yes, it would alter a third aspect. If you wanted to add in custom moves for Box Legendaries, consider removing the restriction you've placed on abilities! Either would be fine, in my opinion, but I'm not the only moderator here!
 
#10
Yes, it would alter a third aspect. If you wanted to add in custom moves for Box Legendaries, consider removing the restriction you've placed on abilities! Either would be fine, in my opinion, but I'm not the only moderator here!
Thanks for the response and that is a good idea, I may change it to that.
 

Deck Knight

CAP Triple Crown
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#11
Name - Terrain-Based Forme Change

Description - A Pokemon with a Forecast-esque ability that changes primary or secondary typing and appearance in battle when the terrain changes.

Explanation - We can all agree that Castform's ability had a ton of potential and got stuck on an absolutely dreadful Pokemon, and while Forecast is good, weather has had it's day in the Sun (Rain/Sand/Hail) and the Tapus each provide a viable auto-terrain ability and effective team partner.
Enter Terrains, which have much more unique effects than just damage boosting or residual damage. Not only would this be excellent for a celebration CAP as our artists could submit multiple formes in the Art stage, it would give our CAP great flexibility with a built-in special STAB in Nature Power.
I also think we could explore an ability that changes secondary typing effectively with this, since the CAP would inherently interact with the Tapus and the Tapus each have a secondary Fairy STAB (except Bulu which tends not to use it). Basically this framework breaks CAP's rules against Forme-changing abilities, provides a huge opportunity for artists, and is a great basis for a competitive celebration CAP that would otherwise be outside the rules of the CAP Process.

Some example questions would be:
How would this Pokemon interact with the Tapus or even stand-alone Terrain moves?
How effective is a partner that effectively doubles-up on a Tapu's type? Does this make it better in a core selection or blanket check role in teambuilding [Since every Terrain except Misty type-resists itself]?
 
#12
I like the idea of 255 base Speed, but I wonder how other stats would be distributed, whether it's a fast wall or a ridiculously good sweeper.

I'm assuming that the following forms are used for the Terrain Form changes: the Base Form (no terrain), Electric, Psychic, and Grassy Terrains, but no Misty Terrain form, kinda like Forecast not giving Castform a Sand form change.

EDIT: Oh, alright then. The lack of a sand Castform was indeed weird. But Deck has a great point regarding simplicity.
 
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Deck Knight

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#13
I like the idea of 255 base Speed, but I wonder how other stats would be distributed, whether it's a fast wall or a ridiculously good sweeper.

I'm assuming that the following forms are used for the Terrain Form changes: the Base Form (no terrain), Electric, Psychic, and Grassy Terrains, but no Misty Terrain form, kinda like Forecast not giving Castform a Sand form change.
That's just going to complicate things, deciding which of the 4 terrains won't get the type change. Don't know why Nintendo never gave Forecast a Sand variant, but for the sake of simplicity (the decision tree already includes a choice between primary or secondary typing potentially), let's just keep it as Terrain change -> Type change.
 

Dogfish44

You can call me Jiggly
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#14
  • Name - Custom Signature Z-Move Using CAP
  • Description - A Pokémon that uses a custom signature Z-Move
  • Explanation - Custom Z-Moves can be pretty gamechanging things, with moves like Genesis Supernova and Clangorous Soulblaze. However, they face fierce competition from Z-Moves which simply break through opponents with force, as anyone who has fought a Landorus-T will attest. A Custom Z-Move gives us plenty of room to develop concepts which would otherwise be infeasible, especially if we make effective usage of the secondary effects, whilst not removing substantial amounts of the competitive process.

    One thing that this Framework give us is a wide concept variety. After all, any concept can be enhanced through the use of a Custom Z-Move - the exact details of such a Custom Z-Move are not defined in this framework for that exact reason. Sample concepts that we could make usage of the Z-Move for include "Ultimate Hazard Setter", "PP Drainer", and "Gravity Abuser".

    This Framework would require either amending the movepool stage, or the addition of a new stage earlier on, depending on how early we wish to determine the exact nature of the Z-Move we will be working with, including the BP, Effect, and Linked Move.
 
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#15
Name - Stoneless Mega

Description - A pokemon who can mega evolve through the use of a custom move, rather than a mega stone.

Explanation - All playable mega evolutions are currently hampered by the lack of an item. However, if it was to get an item it would be broken it would allow for much more interesting interactions between the base form and the mega evolution. Ordinarily, mega evolving scizor is a must as there is no reason not to. But if items could be held, the base form wouldn’t have to make this sacrifice and could potentially hold a different niche for the mega evolution. In some games the decision could even be made to not mega evolve, similar to having the choice between preserving a pokemon to sweep or to wall break immediately. Overall, this framework would allow for more variability in playing with or against this pokemon.
 
#16
Name: Color Change User

Description: A Pokemon that makes use of the ability Color Change. (obviously)

Explanation: Color Change is a pretty interesting ability that changes your type to whatever damaging move you were hit by last. Unfortunately, it is exclusive to Kecleon, who completely sucks. I think that this opens us up to many different possibilities within the framework and I think it could teach us a lot about how to make the most effective Color Change user we can and how a viable color change user affects the meta. The two things completely circumvented are typing and ability. The problem I could see people having with this is the possible limitation on art, but I know we have many creative people here who could make it work. (Also, my first stab at submitting a thing like this, hopefully it doesn't suck completely, am very open to feedback :)
 
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#17
Edited again back to just Judgement user...

Name: Judgement User

Description: A Pokémon that can use the move Judgement (a legendary signature move normally banned by the normal CAP process) and the respective plate items to their full effect as a custom coverage move

Explaination:
A Pokémon with Judgement would have access to a powerful special move with a type of its choosing for use as STAB or a coverage move. Think about it like the move Hidden Power. It’s a move that can be any type and give you the coverage you want. Now imagine that the base power isn’t 60 and is instead 100 (120 after the plate boost).

As an example, imagine if Tornadus-T had the option of using earth plate (ground type) Judgement to take on Heatran, Crucibelle and Mollux. Or even fist plate (fighting) Judgement for an accurate special fighting move instead of relying on focus blast. Or even imagine sky (flying) plate Judgement for a powerful STAB move instead of the unreliable hurricane. This CAP will most likely see something pretty similar to this scenario.
 
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#18
  • Name - Eviolite User
  • Description - A CAP where eviolite makes the pre-evolution equally as viable as the final evolution for different reasons.
  • Explanation - Eviolite has become a very important item for a variety of Pokemon since its introduction in generation 5. Eviolite took Pokemon that were consider obsolete compared to their later stages, and gave them new life competitively. Chansey and Dusclops are examples of Pokemon that even out-shined their final evolutions because of eviolite. Porygon 2 and Porygon Z are perhaps the best example of eviolite done right. In the days of XY & ORAS, both Pokemon were in the UU tier and used for 2 different reasons. Porygon 2 was the obnoxious wall you'd rather not deal with and Porygon Z was an offensive monster thanks to adaptability, life orb, and nasty plot. Embracing the idea of eviolite would give the CAP tier 2 new Pokemon in one process without having to add additional steps.
  • Possible Questions:
    • What makes eviolite a better option for some pokemon compared to other items?
    • Why is Porygon 2 and Porygon Z more distinct from each other than any other eviolite user?
    • What are the defining characteristics of good eviolite users?
 
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G-Luke

We Eat Losers
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Moderator
#19
Always wanted to do this....
Edit: Redone into an entirely different Framework

Name: Forbidden Abilities and Moves
Description: A Pokemon with one or more ability and move that is normally banned in the CAP Process
Explanation: Abilities are things that define a Pokemon and moves dictate its role, but some moves and abilities are banned from the CAP process. This CAP wishes to break tradition and utilize, or even be defined by its use of a normally banned ability and move.
Possible Questions:

Why are these aspects of Pokemon normally banned from the CAP process?

How can CAP 25 have access to these moves and abilities without being overcentralising?
 
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#20
I am aware that this might not be viable, but...

Name: 3+ Competitive abilities CAP

Description: A Pokemon that has more than three (competitively viable) available abilities, so as to make a wide variety of sets.

Explanation: Most pokemon have only one or two competitively viable sets to go with them. Hence, most experienced players can predict their sets and use a mon to counter them. What if a pokemon could, say, have a wide range of (competitively viable) sets (e.g. utility counter, suicide setter, sweeper etc.) and keep the opponent thinking until the very last second?

For example, Tomohawk. This mon can be defensive, offensive, or be support. However, most of the sets used in competitive play are composed of the ability `Prankster`. What if this mon can be better still, through the use of different abilities?

Also for example, Basculin. Basculin has two forms and they both have different abilities (Four altogether, in fact). What if this concept was implemented, but with only one pokemon, and not two?

When I first thought of this concept, the abilities "Imposter","Intimidate", "Magnet Pull" and "No Guard". Even though these might be REALLY random, they could change the course of the game.

Possible questions:

How can this be done if it has no precedent?

How could it be made as to not outclass other pokemon?

How many abilities should it have? And should they be custom abilities of other pokemon?


Thanks to everyone who gave me advice!
 
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#21
Name: Quick Tank

Description: A Pokémon that has high Speed, Defense and Special Defense stats.

Explanation: Most Pokémon have one defense higher than the other one. My idea is that our new Pokémon has balanced medium-high defenses, as well as a high Speed to make sure it can get rid of its foes quickly. (But I don't want Download as an ability)
 
#22
Name: UB C.A.P

Description: This Pokemon is an Ultra Beast.

Explanation: Only a few Ultra Beasts are currently in the OU meta game, those ones being Celesteela, Blacephalon and Kartana. Despite having oddly placed stats, UBs have Beast Boost, giving them an edge for one of their best stats in battle for every KO. Combined with their typing and coverage, it's easy to see just how they fair in the metagame.
The limitations would unfortunately be the ability and BST, though it would be interesting if the BST could be altered slightly from the norm (via poll perhaps) as while Naganadel has a lower BST from the others, it was banned to Ubers due to its near-perfect coverage.

Possible Questions:
Despite these limitations, what makes the UBs in OU better than others (whether it be between all UBs or the 3 in OU?)

What can be learned from these 3 UBs to make CAP not only for the metagame, but stand out from them?

What stat and typing would be considered the most useful to CAP when considering Beast Boost?


After awhile I managed to get my thoughts together and kinda wing it. It's an honest attempt :V feedback would be nice.
 

Birkal

We have the technology.
is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnus
CAP Head Mod
#23
This is a new frontier for everyone, so please ask questions as frequently as you like. And onlookers, feel free to post your thoughts and ideas about currently submitted frameworks!

If you've ever done scientific writing before, you'll know that less is often more. This couldn't be more true for the name you select for your framework. reachzero and Felis Licht have done a great job of getting right to the point with their names of Base 255 Speed and UB CAP respectively. Framework Poll 1 will be very similar to Art Poll 1, in that all legal Frameworks will be accepted. But unlike Art Poll 1, only the name of your Framework will be voted on, not your username. So as you submit, please look for the most succinct name you can afford.

Here are some suggestions:

G-Luke - Chameleons of a Different Colour is too flavorful of a name, and the resulting Framework is really scattered. Are you looking for Protean? Because that's exactly how your concept reads -- any custom element of changing typing outside of Protean would be considered non-intuitive, and therefore illegal.

Prototypetrainer - Unpredictable CAP is a really vague name. You could make a lot of elements unpredictable about any Pokemon through clever use of abilities and movepool. It looks like you just want 4 Competitive Abilites, which I think is an apt enough title.

Wulfanator72 - Workload for artists shouldn't be considered at a competitive stage like this. As an artist myself, we will make any Framework work, no matter how convoluted the design may be as a result!
 

G-Luke

We Eat Losers
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
#24
This is a new frontier for everyone, so please ask questions as frequently as you like. And onlookers, feel free to post your thoughts and ideas about currently submitted frameworks!

If you've ever done scientific writing before, you'll know that less is often more. This couldn't be more true for the name you select for your framework. reachzero and Felis Licht have done a great job of getting right to the point with their names of Base 255 Speed and UB CAP respectively. Framework Poll 1 will be very similar to Art Poll 1, in that all legal Frameworks will be accepted. But unlike Art Poll 1, only the name of your Framework will be voted on, not your username. So as you submit, please look for the most succinct name you can afford.

Here are some suggestions:

G-Luke - Chameleons of a Different Colour is too flavorful of a name, and the resulting Framework is really scattered. Are you looking for Protean? Because that's exactly how your concept reads -- any custom element of changing typing outside of Protean would be considered non-intuitive, and therefore illegal.
I actually did not wish to restrict the project solely to Protean, I wanted it to be to workable with any means of self type manipulation (Multitype, RKS System, Camoflage are some examples) so that Concepts dont feel as contricted as some of the others make them.
 

ethan06

⋖(☼┆☼)⋗
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
#25
EDIT: After a lengthy chat on Discord with Birkal and others, I've determined there's no way to make this idea any less illegal without completely changing it (non-intuitive mechanic) so illegal it shall stay. Leaving it up for posterity (y)

Name: Duelling Formes

Description: This Pokémon changes between two drastically different Formes whenever it is switched in.

Explanation: What I'm proposing with this submission is a CAP that has two Formes with enough difference in typing, ability, and perhaps even stats, that the two would serve completely different functions, but that the Forme change is triggered every time CAP is switched in, meaning that it will alternate between these two Formes as it leaves and enters the field. I feel that this would make for another layer of play for both the user of CAP and the opponent as the user has to plan ahead so that they can switch in the right Forme for a specific situation, and the opponent has to keep track of which Forme is due to come out next.

This framework will specifically break the no Forme-changing rule, and potentially stretch other ones depending on which aspects of the two Formes are made to be different - I'm not too sure what effect the construction of essentially two parallel CAPs would have on the process so I'd be happy to pare this framework back or suggest mitigating criteria if needs be.

Possible questions:

How can we make the two Formes sufficiently distinct from each other if the movepool doesn't also change? Should some aspect of the movepool also change between Formes to allow for this?

Is it possible to make the two Formes similar in viability to each other while still maintaining a level of diversity between them? Is it necessary to do so? Would it even potentially be beneficial, from a design point of view, to make one Forme better or more viable than the other?

This is my first attempt at one of these ever, and I'm aware it's a pretty bold concept, so as I said a couple paragraphs up, any and all input is welcome, particularly from the mods. Enough is happening here that it's definitely possible I may have infringed on one of the rules without meaning to :c Cheers
 
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