CAP 25 - Part 1 - Framework Submissions

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Birkal

We have the technology.
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#26
I actually did not wish to restrict the project solely to Protean, I wanted it to be to workable with any means of self type manipulation (Multitype, RKS System, Camoflage are some examples) so that Concepts dont feel as contricted as some of the others make them.
Therefore, I would name your Framework something along the lines of Self Type Manipulation and clean up your explanation section a bit.
 

Granny Pie

Mafia Champion
#27
Name: Starter Trio CAPs

Description: This CAP is not one Pokemon, but three seperate Pokemon, based off of a Grass/Water/Fire starter trio.

Explanation: There is rarely such thing as a competitively viable starter Pokemon in the OU metagame, rare exceptions being Serperior, Greninja, and Blaziken for their insanely powerful abilities, and Infernape for his speed and movepool. Running three seperate CAP Processes with different Concepts can be loads of fun, and a nice way to celebrate CAP with our own starter trio! I'd love to see what the artists can come up with, and what pre-evos will be made alongside this trio, as well.
I've spoken to Birkal about this framework, and I've decided that this framework would definitely limit the Typing stage of each CAP, but not necessarily limit the Abilities stages, as Overgrow, Torrent, and Blaze aren't very competitively viable, and not necessarily limit the Stats stages, as starter trios tend not to share the same BSTs, giving us flexibility with where and how we want to place stats, especially with each "starter" most likely having a different concept from the others.

Possible Questions:
Is it possible to create a fully competitively viable Grass/Water/Fire trio?
What can be learned from a trio of Pokemon that will mostly likely check, if not counter, each other in a Rock Paper Scissors manner?
Exactly what does it take to create a fully competitively viable starter trio, something unprecedented in all of official, competitive Pokemon?

Of course, feedback is all but begged for as we work to flesh out this framework!
 
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#28
Name: Normal-Typed CAP

Description: This Pokémon's typing will either be pure-Normal, or Normal and an additional type.

Explanation: I've been looking back at the other Pokemon produced through the CAP design process, and we don't have a normal type. I'm hoping that this CAP fills in that hole in typing, possibly with a very diverse moves to compensate.
 

david0895

Mercy Main Btw
is a Pre-Contributor
#29
Name - Spectral Thief CAP

Description - A pokémon with the move Spectral Thief

Explanation - Spectral Thief is a really powerful move that has the effect of stealing the boost of the opposite pokèmon, but its only user is the legendary (and broken) Marshadow.

Possible questions:
- What can prevent a spectral thief user to be overpower?
- How can be handled a pokémon that has your boosts?
- Is there a way to avoid the stealing of your boosts?
 
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#30
  • Name: Mega CAP 2.0
  • Description: This Pokémon can Mega Evolve.
  • Explanation: Crucibelle is the only CAPmon currently capable of Mega Evolving in the metagame, and it tends to see spots on many CAP teams, since the most common Megas viable official Pokémon are ridiculously strong physical attackers like itself. The idea behind this Framework is an attempt to give Crucibelle competition for the Mega slot in CAP without necessarily forcing it into obscurity.
 
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#31
Name: Crystal Form Change and Signature Z-Move

Description: This Pokemon can change formes with its signature Z-Crystal and also have its very own Z-Move.

Explanation: Currently, the only Pokemon who can do this is Necrozma and the other formes are in Ubers. We could experiment with this idea in mind and see how we can work it out in the end.
 
#32
Name: Special Huge Power

Description: This Pokemon makes use of a Special Attack version Huge/Pure power

Explanation: Currently, there are many abilities/effects that seem to be geared towards stopping physical attackers (I.E Intimidate, Iron Barbs, Burns ect) from attacking. Huge/pure power users work through these obstacles by attacking with nearly force. These Pokemon however are held back by various built-in issues that limit their success (M-Mawile's speed, M-Medicham's offensive typing). The Idea behind this CAP would be to see if a Special version of Huge/Pure power would be objectively broken with a smaller amount of limiters (Chansey and AV users).

Questions:
- Can the current metagame handle a Special wallbreaker of this magnitude?
- What stats/typing limitations would be required to allow this CAP to not be broken?
 
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#33
Name: Multiple Boost Options

Description: This Pokemon has multiple stat-boosting abilities (Huge/Pure Power, Speed Boost, etc.) or items (Deep Sea Scale/Tooth, Thick Club, etc.)

Explination: When a stat-boosting ability or item is put onto a Pokémon, it's usually to make up for a lacking stat. This framework aims to explore what would happen if these were not just a better choice band but rather a way to add customization and/or versatility to a Pokémon through a custom stat boost. Example: Consider a Pokémon that can be either a Physical Wall or a Physical Attacker through either having Huge Power or Fur Coat. With the added benefit of custom items and abilities, this framework becomes a lot less restrictive in design and can produce interesting concepts.
 
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#34
Name: New Dragon

Description: A CAP that is gauranteed to be part Dragon, preferably with a unique/uncommon Type combination.

Explanation: In many ways, Dragon Type Pokemon can be considered to be "special"; even the comparatively weak Dragons tend to be powerhouses in their metagames, and the strongest can redefine metagames. Creating a unique, interesting Dragon could serve as an excellent celebration for CAP 25, and give us an opportunity to examine what makes some Dragons into game changers, and others into "just another Pokemon".


---

Stupid question: Are we still going to have a concept to decide on for this CAP, or is this "Framework" basically our concept this time around?
 
#36
Name: CAP with Multiple Formes

Description: The CAP will have multiple viable “out-of-battle” formes, which will each have a separate main role. The CAP cannot change between formes during battle.

Explanation: I was kind of thinking of Deoxys and the Genie trio for this. In other words, the forme is not item-based, move-based, ability-based, or anything else. I didn't think I would need to describe how you change formes with these kinds of Pokemon on Smogon, you just pick one and battle with it.
 
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#37
Name: Old Pokémon Evolution CAP

Description: A CAP which is the evolved form of an existing Pokémon.

Explanation: The Create-A-Pokémon Project introduces new Pokémon to be competitively viable. In addition, there are lots of existing Pokémon that don't have the stats, ability or movepool needed to be viable. That, however, could be solved by granting them an evolution.
 
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#38
Name: Spore CAP

Description: An offensive 'mon with mid-tier speed capable of using Spore on slower targets to either set up or support his team.

Explanation: Spore and sleep in general has seen very little use this gen outside of UU, with Amoonguss before and Breloom after, thanks to the advent of abilities like electric terrain and misty terrain.
Anyone who played UU in this past months has experienced how terrifying an offensive mon with spore can be, expecially when backed up with good coverage moves, good abilities and the ability to set up. While I'm not proposing a Breloom 2.0, I think it'd be cool and interesting to see sleep back in the meta with a poison-type able to both spore and threaten grass-types and terrain users alike.
This gives ample room to work with both regarding his role as an attacker or as an offensive support with moves like Taunt, his movepool and abilities.
 
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#39
Name: Regional Form

Description: A Pokemon that is a regional form of a previous CAP.

Explanation: Regional forms are flexible enough to leave lots of room for decision, while giving too much "direction" to be normally allowed. This would fit well as a celebration of older CAPs, calling back to previous parts of CAP's history. Building a connection with other pokemon is a fun process despite breaking some of the normal rules for order of decisions.
 
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#40
Name - Low Base Power

Description - A Pokemon whose offensive movepool can only consist of weak attacks below 60 base power.

Explanation - there's a lot of neat moves in pokemon that never get any use, mostly because of how incredibly weak they are otherwise. moves like feint and rage could, in theory, have real utility, allowing players to be rewarded for making good reads, but because of how incredibly weak they are, no serious person would ever use them. this framework would force us to operate under the mentality that we must make these moves work, which would make us consider more of the utility behind these otherwise-bad moves.

while it might not seem like it at first, this does break the usual format; namely, the movepool section of the process, where universal TMs are usually required. in order to truly follow through with this framework, some universal TMs like return, frustration, and facade would have to be disallowed.

e: removed the "high attacking stats" part of the name + description, as the important part of this framework focuses on the low BP moves, and the high attack will be somewhat of a given with most viable concepts for it. if this is seen as too much of a change, i can revert it if needed
 
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#41
  • Name - Third STAB CAP
  • Description - A Pokemon with either Steelworker or a Custom Ability similar to Steelworker for a different type. This Pokemon must have two types that are different from the type boosted by the ability.
  • Explanation - Despite being the absolute worst Pokemon ever made, Dhelmise has one of the more intriguing abilities in the game, since it effectively has a STAB on three different types of attacks. This framework will let us explore that further by allowing us the ability to use any combination of three types for this project. This would allow for concepts that explore the ability to have access to a wider range of strong neutral options, shore up less than ideal typings, or even allow for other concepts to have a better opportunity to fulfill their role.
 
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#42
Name: 808

Description: A Pokemon that would make devastating use of powerful sound based attacks.

Explanation: The "sound based moves" list has grown a bit over the years and has a couple of gems. Specifically, Sparkling Aria, which can hit neutrally the Steel types that resist Hyper Voices, Boombursts, and Bug Buzzes. Having access to sweet options like Parting Shot, Perish Song, Metal Sound, and Grass Whistle reinforces its role as a breaker.
 
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#43
Name: Altered Type Effectiveness

Description: This Pokemon has a signature move with different type effectiveness than regular moves of its type.

Explanation: We already have examples of moves that do this - the most prominent one is Zygarde's signature Thousand Arrows, which single-handedly defines it as a Pokemon and makes it a formidable offensive and utility threat. In the lower tiers several Ice-types run Freeze-Dry as an option to compress coverage against Water types, and Flying Press is overshadowed on Hawlucha but is a very interesting concept. By building CAP 25 around such a signature move, we open the door to a myriad of offensive and utility concepts which allow it to fulfill many unique roles.
 
#44
Thoughts on the other submissions so far, incoming Wall 'O Text:

reachzero : Gotta go fast, huh? I do like the idea although the extreme stat distribution may be a bit difficult to work with. Seems like it could be fun though.
Squidy822 : Eelektross is a fun ‘mon to use and making another one like it would be very neat.
Pipotchi : So basically Giratina-O/Primals for CAP. The idea does seem interesting since there is room for an interesting dynamic between making the forme change worth the loss of an item slot and balancing it with the main form.
chuckeroo777 : Not as big a fan of adding in an additional ability on top of using Techno Blast is needed since it alredy is a 120bp move that can have different typings based on the item. It as a slightly harder to predict coverage move would be pretty good as is. (Although it would probably change the ‘mons typing if there were an ability based on what drive it held)
Frostbiyt : So basically making two Kyurem-Bs. Eh, not the biggest fan of, but it is something that probably woulda been suggested at some point.

Okamu : Seems a little underwhelming compared to most others but I like it personally since Exploring new type combos seems fun.
Scizivire : Seems like a neat idea. Plus the idea of a “Hangry” ‘mon that calms down when it eats its berry is amusing.
Deck Knight: Terrain Forecast would be interesting indeed. Bonus Points if we manage to give it a concept to make it anti-tapu or something.
Dogfish44 : This is one that I expected to see and one of those frameworks that would definitely be a bit neat to explore and would make sense as a framework due to logistics. The idea of it fitting into most concept ideas is pretty nice too.
Yay61 : I did expect a Mega Framework to get submitted, but a specifically stone-less one was a surprise. Does make me wonder a bit how we may pull it off and balance it, since it’ll get +100 stats to add on top of the ability to use items.

aegislasher681 : Seems like it would be a neat idea to play around with and could be taken into several directions we all know Klecleon won’t ever be able to go.
gibygiby : TBH, I was kinda shocked to learn that Judgement worked off the Plates rather than typing. I like this framework since the idea of giving up an item for a 100bp (with a 20% damage boost) of any type seems like a fair trade even if that’s the only move it can use of that type. Balancing that would be a bit of a trick though.
Wulfanator72 : Another one I figured would be here since a lot of people wanted a good eviolite user (especially since CAP LC became a thing). Seems like a neat idea too, and one i would like to see.
G-Luke : why a pair of Pokemon? Couldn’t just one work with this framework? Also curious as to what kind of concepts could come out of this.
Prototypetrainer : A neat framework that shouldn’t be too hard to properly balance. It does seem a little dull, but could be spiced up by specifying 1 ability coming from the usually banned list.

GreenSylveon10 : What kind of concepts do you think could come from this?
Felis Licht : Tl;dr: I think this is a great framework and wouldn’t mind working on it.
Granny Pie : I think this is also on that one list I keep mentioning. What I have always felt about us doing Core Concepts is that we do them far narrow in scope and generally control half or a third of it. This would, imo, solve both issues if we actually use a Core Concept with this Framework.
Salizar : It probably would take us forcing a normal type to actually get one, wouldn’t it?
david0895 : The title isn't clear enough and could as well be talking about stuff like Heart Swap and Psych Up. Otherwise, Spectral Thief is neat. (Also the OP does say no cutesy names. "Spectral Thief CAP" would work best.)

Mova : Again, a Framework I figured would make it. I still think more viable Megas would be a good thing as my main beef is with just how few tend to get used.
ZardX : Hadn't considered this although I guess it would make sense given BahamutUltra Necrozma. Would make for a neat project.
SunMYSER : Kinda surprised it took til now to see this kinda Framework. Also a bit surprised we haven't seen a Special Attack Version of Intimidate yet.
Wendig0 : Needs a name change since it does go against the rules stated in the OP. Also curious what kinda concepts would go with this since it seems a lot like Navithan's concept and may not leave a whole lot of room for actual concepts.
Mr Holiday : a bit dull as is, but i ain't entirely sure what kinda thing to add to it.

Origin0 : Could probably be a headache if there's too many different formes though, but an interesting idea.
Arieth : Not quite sure if CopyCAP runs afoul of the naming rule in the OP honestly. Also sounds a bit like it could be a concept rather than a framework.
Sabbio : That name is a bit of a mess aint it? So it's a poison type with Spore and mid-tier speed? That's three parts of the process. Just shortening it to Spore CAP is fine.
faithviolet : I wonder how much people would be willing to do a full project on this. Would be interesting.
2MN : I am curious as to what kinda concepts would work with this. it seems like one that would normally not really be allowed, but may work as a framework?

OLD GREGG (im back baby) : The name has nothing to do with the Framework. Also seems a bit concept-y.
The Imposter : The thing is... how intuitive IS Flying Press? Freeze Dry works a bit better at least. Not so sure on this one.

Whew. That was a lot. Anywho, interesting selection so far. Can't wait to see what else people come up with.
 
#47
Yeah, but how many people remember how exactly it interacts with types? Because it being neutral to Bug/Rock/Steel seems like something people tend to forget.
I agree that it's something that isn't intuitive in general terms, I was just saying that it fits with how "intuitive" is defined in the OP:
This creation will not allow any non-intuitive custom elements. This includes custom typings, abilities with entirely new mechanics, or moves with entirely new mechanics. For example, an ability that changes a Pokémon's form based on terrain would be allowed, but not an ability that summons a new type of weather.
 
#49
Name - Adjusting Ability
Description - A pokémon where the succes relies on altering the ability of the opponent.
Explanation - Many pokémon rely on their ability, however no viable OU pokémon actually tries to disable this. Even though this would mean losing a turn and a move slot, it could have a crucial benefit. Certainly in the defence I see much potential; thinking about aerilaty, scrappy, mold breaker,... . In the offence, this will be a bit more tricky, but removing abilities like levitate, could be crucial for a pokémon's succes too. Personally I think a new ability that automatically removes the opponent's ability will be appropriate, but I can assume many are not a big fan of inventing a new ability. Either way there are enough options in moves (skill swap, worry seed,...) to alter the ability. Personally I think this will be interesting to see how much abilities have impact on the succes of a pokémon, and if this is enough to sacrafice a move slot and turn to remove this. Other then that I think this could be a creative project that will require a lot of insight in the OU metagame, making is fun and challenging.
 

reachzero

the pastor of disaster
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#50
I'm a bit concerned that it seems like several users that have submitted frameworks haven't really grasped the purpose of a framework--they are designed to define the scope of the departures from the normal CAP process. This CAP won't be able to receive legendary exclusive moves, for instance, unless its framework explicitly includes legendary exclusive moves. After we have a framework, we will still need a concept. This means that a good framework should be something that does not constrict possible concepts excessively, and which isn't something normally available in the CAP process.


Consequently, I feel that proposed concepts like “Unique Typing”, “Mimic CAP”, 808, “Adjusting Ability”, etc are actually more like concepts. They could be completely doable within the normal process.


Incidentally, my proposed framework, “Base 255 Speed” would indeed be illegal in the normal process, because of how badly it would mess with the BSR formula.
 
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