It is already time to start abilities discussion, and in just a few days we’ve already had a decent amount of possibilities brought to light. Some of them solid, and others that just make me scratch my head. For this post I am only going to be addressing 25W, just for the sake of not making this post ridiculously long. Some topics I’ll probably talk about more than others, and that should be taken very simply: If I don’t say much it probably means I think the ability is weak and shouldn’t have a very good chance of winning.
Also just a note: this is in regards to arguments from people who reference something like “weak move to ability connection, as in its not super obvious” I have one thing to say to you. Going over the top to have multiple moves that make a super direct connection is going to hurt the competitiveness of these mons if you force it, and our goal before abilities was to make competitive starters. Honestly people who struggle with this when looking at something like Poison Heal or Magic Bounce leaves me questioning the rest of their ideas for other types since I find that argument so frustratingly bad. Can discuss that opinion more with people in PMs if they want, but not spending any more time on this now (Since I can’t take your hand and walk you through all possible connections in this thread since I can’t name moves).
Stamina – This ability would turn us into a tank role if we wanted to use if effectively. Since if we’re switching into an attack, and then switching out 1-2 turns later we won’t be optimally utilizing this ability. We will more than likely need to have access to recovery options, and stats that make us more than something that is just asked to sponge hits – requires an offensive presence allowing us to sit on the battlefield. Also I’ve thought of this ability deterring U-turn, but with our typing that’s not a good option. Yes, we can eat a U-turn easy and get +1 Defense. However, we are potentially losing 25% of our HP and allowing a free switch into something that can pressure us out through sheer power that KOs while we’re chipped down by Rocks + the U-turn itself, or is just special like a Tapu Koko or Lele and doesn’t care about our Defense boost. Overall I am not the biggest fan of this ability, since I don’t think we’d do well making a Tank out of this mon, but it’s certainly an option if you do like the idea of 25W being a tank more than anything else.
Corrosion – This ability will give us the ability to Poison any mon that tries to come in on us, through the use of a few moves that poison the opposition (I can’t say what we’re all thinking, but you get it). How I see this working out is something along the lines of: Opponent has a mon like Zygarde out, we switch in CAP 25W, then we click our move that poisons as Zygarde switches out as we wall it, and finally we get a poison off vs possible switch ins like Ferrothorn or Toxapex. This idea is extremely one dimensional, but it would definitely end up being successful since outside of going hard into the ever popular Pajantom or a Magic Guard mon like Clefable you wouldn’t be able to stop the poisons from our WaterBug. If you can’t tell from my last sentence I’m already listing off some viable common pokes that switch in pretty easy to a defensive WaterBug and take advantage either going for a Strong Spirit Shackle or setting Stealth Rock. I don’t believe Corrosion will be a very strong force in the meta, and can’t seriously support it currently.
Contrary – Incredibly hard to discuss this one without talking about specific moves, like near impossible to clearly argue about. Based off discord discussions one of the main ways this mon would abuse this ability is in a similar manner as Shuckle, which would leave us outclassed at a bad strategy as Shuckle’s move pool and stats are perfect for it. I’ll be blunt, I strongly dislike this idea, and based on how hard it is to try and garner support for this idea with the rules in place I will wrap this up. As I’m confident this is a non-factor currently when it comes to actually winning. Or more I have faith people won’t fall in love with this idea.
MultiScale – I am not a fan of this, as it restricts our more defensive mon to stall. If you think about offensive applications you see Dragonite who comes in to games rarely, and often will be paired with a spinner that spins and dies in the late game to get Dnite in for a chance to set up and sweep utilizing the Multi Scale. Then if you go defensive you see Lugia, who is restricted to stall. If you want to use a defensive Multi Scale mon you need to be surrounded by removal and ways to keep rocks off the field. I’m talking about M-Sabeleye, Chansey, and mons like Zapdos as partners consistently. That may seem a bit extreme, but I don’t see this ability working without teammates being extremely fat and good at keeping hazards off the field. CAP 25W could find use outside of stall, I won’t argue that. However, it will be due to typing and good building, not because of using its ability effectively. I am all for making overpowered defensive mons to constrain the offensive imbalance in the tier, but I don’t think a dedicated stall mon is what we’re looking for.
Gluttony – This is another option that leads us towards becoming a tank if we expect battles to last more than 20-25 turns. By that I mean we will of course get our first berry activation for free, but if our mon is expected to come in several times throughout a longer game it will need a way to replenish its berry. This means we will have a less efficient way to continuously heal than other traditional recovery methods if we’re switching in and out since our recovery will be a bit harder to manage. We’ll be left either struggling to recover throughout a long game, only healing up once and leaning on more offensive presence to find our place, setting up turning into a bit of a more offensive bulky sweeper making a go of it once maybe twice in a game. We’re also left extremely weak to knock off, since if we get hit by that once while holding our berry we’re in trouble. I’ll say I mainly dislike this one since it pushes us away from being a strong wall and more something built to pivot in a few times during a game made to serve on Bulky Offense. There is nothing wrong with serving as a pivot, I just don’t see a pivot weak to rocks lasting long in a meta so heavily influenced by offense with threats like M-Crucibelle, Pajantom, M-Mawile and many others who apply a great deal of pressure immediately running around making it hard to switch in if you immediately are at 75% and struggle to control your recovery.
Serene Grace – Very simple premise of doubling our moves secondary effect chance. Lots of moves that I’m not allowed to mention would utilize this, and would very strongly accomplish our goal of moves and abilities combining. Honestly can’t say much about this one without a poll jump, so I’ll just give an opinion. I like this one, but I don’t give it a realistic shot in the polls since people disliking it just because it’s Serene Grace, so I’ll probably keep it near the top of my votes, but won’t push for others to vote for it.
Prankster – is another option like Serene Grace that is truly difficult to explain without breaking down possible scenarios in an actual game, while also struggling with people balking at the idea of making a dreaded Prankster mon. This is one I really like as it gives us lots of options. For those worrying about becoming a worse Tomahawk I can assure you there are lots of ways to separate it from the flying lion with arguably better typing. I can’t discuss it more than just asking the question: How many status moves exist outside of the ones Tomohawk has? Idk the answer, but it’s a large number that would give us a lot of freedom at the next stage. I feel like people who are interested in this ability or even Serene Grace should hit up the discord, since more real discussion about potential moves is going to be mute when it comes to actually getting people to join the cause.
Poison Heal – This is a big one, obviously having an immense amount of support. I enjoy this ability as it heals itself greatly, and can act as a great status absorber. This move meshes a bit with recovery options and set up moves, but will struggle to make a super direct connection if that matters to you – which it shouldn’t imo. I will say the biggest issue this mon will have is switching into attacks with rocks up. CAP 25W is immediately in a bind. Yes Poison Heal can help restore our health over the course of the game, but that doesn’t change the fact we’re switching in at 75% - and that’s our first switchin/if we heal up before switching out. Now before you think something like “oh I’ll just be sure to heal up everytime” I want you to think about Gliscor. That mon is hit neutral by rocks and immune to Spikes, and still manages to get chipped during a game even with Poison Heal and Roost. I will say it’s doable to make this formula work as 3 Pokemon above A- on the Cap VR make this weak to rocks bulkier mon formula work. Two of those are Defoggers (Torn-T and Zapdos) who can come in on some rockers and defog before they become a problem, not all obviously there isn’t a single defogger that good sadly. And the other is Pyroak. Other than that small number most prominent defensive mons aren’t weak to rocks since it does cause trouble. An example is if you’re ever chipped to 70% and forced to switch out you’re coming in at 45% and even with Poison Heal standing strong is going to be tough. The only reason I’ve gone so deep into this is due to all the talk circulating around our biggest weakness being Toxic, which just isn’t true – it’s hazards, more specifically Stealth Rock. I just really want people to understand that as they’re taking in all the options they have in front of them. Since honestly as a defensive mon – who we can give a clerical move- if your biggest weakness is getting Toxiced you’re in a great place. I’m sorry this has turned into a bit of rambling, I’m just getting tired of all the talk surrounding that giving this thing Poison Heal to invalidate Toxic fixes our biggest weakness, when that’s just wrong. With that I’ll mention we also have to be careful switching into a mon that could potentially run Knock Off since if we get knocked t1 our ability is useless similar to Gluttony (tho gluttony should give more opportunities to be knocked and stopped). As far as positives go Poison Heal will let us come in on Heatran, Zygarde, and Pajantom a bit better – tho offensive Tran with Firium or even just any Pajantom is going to be really tough to deal with so that’s not a big win. Others exist like M-Scizor, just wanting to name some of the bigger more used mons that we come in on in the post, since listing that we don’t care about toxic from Tomohawk is kinda mute since we lose that interchange even if we absorb the Toxic. Now this is truly the end and I’ll say this: I wrote a lot since I care about how this ability is discussed since I think it could win and be effective, I just don’t want it to get twisted into something better than it is when it comes to helping CAP 25W succeed this early in the project, but I do consider this a top notch option going forward.
Magic Bounce – I think Magic Guard is a bit broken, so I’m choosing to ignore that one and just go with Magic Bounce. Magic Bounce helps invalidate mons running Toxic to stop it similarly to Poison Heal with the exception of a few mons in Mold Breaker Excadrill and Tspikes which you bounce back. Magic Bounce also helps you deal with Rockers who will annoy CAP 25W, more than likely being able to stop mons like Clefable, Ferrothorn, Defensive Landorus-t (basically any variant without Z-Fly, Edge, or Explosion), utility Heatran, Chansey, Pyroak, and Fidgit from getting up hazards is extremely nice. Obviously Rocks Tomohawk is an annoyance, but one rocker that invites in several defoggers shouldn’t be a major concern. Also thanks to our typing and initial check list we can annoy mons like Arghonaut and Ash Greninja since we can stop their spikes. Ash Gren specifically loves setting Spikes on a forced switch, but not if CAP 25W with Magic Bounce is the forced switch. Also as mentioned earlier some annoyances like Toxic Zygarde and M-Scizor are also handled. We will still lose to offensive Tran and Pajantom most likely, but we are a better switch in to utility Tran. If we go with an assumed Leftovers set we are more Knock Off weak throughout the entirety of a match, that is something to take note of as sets like Poison Heal don’t care about their item after they get in safely for a turn. By this point you should be able to tell my bias out of what I believe are the top two options, but I will say Magic Bounce has issues of its own. You have to actually come into the game to bounce hazards, and while it’s true we probably won’t be pressured by something like Defensive Lando-t, we do risk the opponent being SD and basically us trading our mon to avoid Rocks, and that’s if they don’t just Z move right away, Clefable with SR + CM could just set up t1 and we might be forced out if we don’t have a way to deal with that, we might walk into Firium Tran and die, or the rocker doubles as we come in and then something like M-Mawile or Kyurem-B is staring us in the face and we’re in trouble. I will say stating the bad is probably hurting the case for Magic Bounce, but I just want to be clear that this option similarly to Poison Heal will have weaknesses – CAP 25W won’t be perfect. I know I’ve seen some people like Snake mentioning we might not be able to give a Magic Bounce variant recovery options since it might be broken, and I just wanted to take the time to squash that theory. Since it’s really picking what you want to have more of an issue with, and I really disagree with choosing hazards, but it’s an opinion everyone deciding between these two should make.
I think I got most of the more discussed options for CAP 25W, and will be looking ahead to a post on CAP 25F next unless I change my mind in the next day or two when it comes to writing it. Hopefully it wasn’t boring, and I do apologize if I was a bit off on some minor stuff since theorymonning isn’t an exact science and I hope you all can understand that. Anyways I’m going to wrap this up, tell next time. Oh I also tried to grammar check this while I went along, but this is way to long for me to go back and scrutinize myself over so I hope it's readable. Will probably go back and fix majorly noticeable mistakes, but don't expect a big overhaul on that soon.
