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Following the results of this thread, it is time to submit stat spreads! This is the submission thread for CAP 25f. Please pay close attention to our stats leader, jas61292!
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NEW: This is a Celebration CAP, meaning that we are going out of our way to break some rules. We'll be creating a set of three Pokemon this time around, a set of Fire, Water, and Grass-type starters! You can read exactly which rules we'll be breaking here and the logic behind Celebration CAPs here. Give these a read-through to get some context.
In this thread, you may post work-in-progress and final stat spreads for the community and the TLT's consideration, and make comments on other peoples' submissions. The Stats Leader, jas61292, will decide on a slate for voting based on the community's input. In the Stats Limits thread, the Stats Leader decided on the following limits:
Limits:
Physical Sweepiness: Limit is 180 Physical Tankiness: Limit is 125 Special Sweepiness: Limit is 150 Special Tankiness: Limit is 140
BSR ABUSE WILL NOT BE TOLERATED AND WILL NOT BE SLATED!
BSR abuse is doing things like 150 HP and 70 Def/SpD to create a theoretical optimum with the limits that you have. The purpose of the stat rating limits is to restrict what submitters can do, not to give them a license to game the system. If you cannot justify your stats legitimately and have not proven that you aren't just making the best stats within the limits, you will not get slated.
A spreadsheet for calculating the biases can be found here. The formulas themselves can be found here. Do not use the BSR calculator on-site, as it is designed for DPP BSR. To use the spreadsheet, you will need Microsoft Excel 2007 or higher, OpenOffice.org Calc 3 or higher, or a similar spreadsheet program that can handle .xlsx files. Alternatively, you can upload the spreadsheet onto Google Docs. You must have the stat rating values listed correctly in your submission or it will be ignored for the slate.
When you are satisfied with your stat submission, mark it as finished by writing "Final Submission" (bolded) at the top of your post.
Description: This CAP is not one Pokemon, but three seperate Pokemon, based off of a Grass/Water/Fire starter trio.
Explanation: There is rarely such thing as a competitively viable starter Pokemon in the OU metagame, rare exceptions being Serperior, Greninja, and Blaziken for their insanely powerful abilities, and Infernape for his speed and movepool. Running three seperate CAP Processes with different Concepts can be loads of fun, and a nice way to celebrate CAP with our own starter trio! I'd love to see what the artists can come up with, and what pre-evos will be made alongside this trio, as well.
I've spoken to Birkal about this framework, and I've decided that this framework would definitely limit the Typing stage of each CAP, but not necessarily limit the Abilities stages, as Overgrow, Torrent, and Blaze aren't very competitively viable, and not necessarily limit the Stats stages, as starter trios tend not to share the same BSTs, giving us flexibility with where and how we want to place stats, especially with each "starter" most likely having a different concept from the others.
Possible Questions:
Is it possible to create a fully competitively viable Grass/Water/Fire trio?
What can be learned from a trio of Pokemon that will mostly likely check, if not counter, each other in a Rock Paper Scissors manner?
Exactly what does it take to create a fully competitively viable starter trio, something unprecedented in all of official, competitive Pokemon?
Of course, feedback is all but begged for as we work to flesh out this framework!
Name - Astounding Ability Actualization (Triple A)
Description - These Pokemon each maximize the potential of their given, separate abilities by coordinating their movepools and that ability's competitive effect.
Justification - This is an Actualization concept much like Cyclohm's original "Neglected Ability." In my research on what made Pokemon with "Starter Level" stats effective, the common denominator was they all had abilities they used to full effect with their other competitive aspects. This framework gives us a unique opportunity to A-B test some fairly powerful abilities we usually shy away from and bring out an effective competitive starter trio.
Questions To Be Answered -
Which Abilities are best suited to a full, comprehensive exploration of their specific mechanics?
Why does Ability seem to be the common factor in taking "starter-esque" Pokemon into prominence (e.g. Protean and Battle Bond Greninja, Contrary Serperior, Speed Boost Blaziken to Ubers, etc.)
What is the threshold where maximizing an ability goes toi far, such as Blaziken's combination of Swords Dance, strong attack and mid-grade speed, and high BP STABS with Speed Boost or Protean Greninja's huge speed and just-varied enough movepool in prior Generations?
How will introducing three specialized Pokemon into the metagame at once impact it overall?
Which type combinations along with the starter types are best suited to maximizing the potential of a specific ability, and why?
Explanation - Competitive Pokemon has suffered from a massive power creep for a long time. In order for a Pokemon to be effective, not only does it have to be fairly good generally, it also can't be directly outclassed. Considering our Framework, our Pokemon are already competing against Heatran/Volcarona, Toxapex/Keldeo/Greninja, and Ferrothorn/Kartana for offensive or defensive roles. However, each of those Pokemon have their own flaws that give our FWG CAP Trio space to explore if we are focused on a key niche for each of them.
Let's take Grass for example, and Tough Claws. Tough Claws boosts one of the most incredibly CAP-relevant moves, Grass Knot, because it is a special contact attack. Only Mega Metagross ever even came close to utilizing this combination, and Mega-Meta was banned (for other reasons, of course). Grass could also use it's huge number of healing options with Triage, including priority Strength Sap that even outruns Bullet Punch. Nearly every Fire attack has a secondary effect chance perfect for Serene Grace or Sheer Force. Water has a few specific moves that would also love Serene Grace, but would also appreciate breaking through Gastrodon and Mollux with Mold Breaker. Suffice it to say, this concept gives us an ability to meet our Framework demands and think through a huge combination of synergistic types and abilities in a single project.
Hi again. Before we begin this thread, I just want to say a few things about starters, their inherent limitations, and how I will be judging them. This post is going to be identical in all three submission threads, so if you have read it in one of them, feel free to skip over it and get right to the submissions.
So, as you all know, the Pokemon we are creating are starters. If you look at the existing starter Pokemon, there are some obvious trends that exist. The most important of these is probably the Base Stat Total, with every single starter Pokemon falling between 525 and 535. This, along our stat limits, is the greatest limiter that we have with regard to stats. Beyond this, there are some other notable facts about starter stats. No starter has any stat below 56 or above 126, and more generally, the vast majority of starter stats fall between 80 and 110. No starter has all its stats outside that range, all but one have two or more in it, and over 70% of them have half or more fall in that range.
You can find even more precedent if you look at one type more specifically. Some examples include every Fire starter having at least one offensive stat of at least 104, or how no grass starter has a special defense of more than 100. The more you look and analyze the statistics of starters, the more trends I am sure you will find.
With that said, not all trends are absolute, and most of them will have shifted significantly over time. 126 being the highest starter stat was not true until the current gen, as it is Primarina who hits that mark. I think it will be important for us to remember that these trends are not some super strict pattern. So with regard to my judging and slating of stat spreads, I am not going to be setting any limitations other than the Stat Limits noted in the above post. You should use existing starter stats to help guide what you do, but you do not have to treat them as a straitjacket. Above all, just use your best judgement when creating your spreads, and I will used my best judgement when deciding what to slate. And, as always, back up your submissions with solid competitive reasoning, especially if you are straying from the established norms.
Final Submission:
So here's my stat spread idea for 25f: 95/116/71/74/83/96 (535)
Starting off with the attacking stats: 116 Attack: In order to get close to a 2hko on clefable with adamant and a boosting item we need over 110 attack as anything else simply won't cut it/forces us to run choice band to 2hko clefable, or life orb which is risky when it comes to potential flare blitz recoil (using this as a benchmark cuz almost every fire starter has gotten flare blitz) as 25f will not last long and would switch to a glass cannon role which does not seem to fit what we want.
74 Special Attack: While people may ask for higher special attack for greater mixed potential, I believe if we do that, the random hidden powers (mostly ice and maybe grass) will get too strong. With 74 spAttack we are able to 2hko max hp Landorus with a -spAttack nature hp ice.
0- SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 220-260 (57.5 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 192-228 (53.6 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 212-252 (50.4 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If we go higher than 74 spAttack by more than a few points, in theory we'd be able to easily 2hko Lando-t and Zygarde that have spDef investment which becomes risky, so I believe we should limit those chances. Technician gives us the ability to run some strong uninvested special moves and I think that's where we should leave our mixed capabilities.
96 Speed: This is was a really interesting one to decide on, as I disagree with the concept of making this a slower wall breaker, but I also believe 25f shouldn't be too fast, as that creates a big risk for destroying the metagame or making a Pokemon that is fast but not really that good. Originally I had 99 or 97 speed but after some discussion on discord I have decided on 96 speed. First and foremost, in order for 25f to be truly viable with starter level stats, it needs to be faster than Zygarde and other base 95s (Volkraken being the most notable in my opinion). This creates viable scarf and band sets as well boosting items as it doesnt have to fear getting OHKO'd by Zygarde after coming in. I settled on 96 because although 97 outspeeds Jumbao, the pressure going both ways in the matchup creates a very interesting dynamic while still being faster than those base 95s. I didn't think we should go over base 100 because that is a very important benchmark and I don't think we need this stab combo at over base 100 speed.
On to the defenses:
95 HP: This was a very important stat to fiddle with in my opinion, and I think 95 is the right balance between taking too much recoil from flare blitz and not enough recoil, while maintaining acceptable bulk. Originally I had slightly more HP (going off 100 HP) but I shifted away from this due to concerns about the recoil not being enough, and on the fact that we check Jumbao a lot better with higher HP. There were also issues with hitting the special tankiness upper limit with 100 HP so I dragged it down to 95.
83 Special Defense: I saw a lot of discussion about how 25f should be able to take hits, especially from the special side and I really agree with that idea, so I went with almost but not quite as much spDef as I possibly could. This creates nice Jumbao and Clefable calcs as well as almost always not getting OHKO'd by Toxapex Scald after rocks which is cool I guess.
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 244-292 (73.7 - 88.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
This was actually quite straight forward and I think this is the best way to go for special bulk.
71 Defense: Last and least, Defense. As I don't think physDef is of huge value to 25f, this was mostly a stat dump and I would consider taking off a few points if that would make people happier, but I really don't see the point. This thing will not be taking Earthquakes and Thousand Arrows unless people run max defense which in my opinion would be stupid. Defense is the least important stat by far for 25f so that's all I have to say for it.
CONCLUSION
I have finally made it to the end, again shoutout to the guys I talked to on Discord, I think our discussion really helped the development of my spread. The spread basically fits into the norms of starter stats and that played a big role in how I approached it. I would love any questions or suggestions for the spread. Just gonna post the BSR related stuff now for your viewing. Sorry if this got a little long oops. PT: 113.5 ST: 134.5 PS: 166 SS: 111.3 BSR: 281.3
Metagame Role:
25F will provide the CAP metagame with a strong physical offensive Fire-type that can effectively counterplay against some of the strongest Volt-turn core Pokemon in the meta. Tapu Koko, Scarf Landorus-T, and Scarf Volkraken all have to tread carefully around 25f's ability to tap into offensive speed control options and then threaten them with STAB or coverage. While only Tapu Koko finds itself walled or forced to U-turn against resistance, this niche alone will make 25f an effective offensive pillar.
In order to fully actualize Technician with our typing, CAP25 utilizes +1/-1 Speed Control to create a unique offensive profile in the CAP Metagame. Situated between both large Base 95 and Base 100 categories, 25f is prone to being checked and/or revenge killed by a multitude of Pokemon faster than it and having a strong utility answers to a number of the CAP Metagame's most threatening Scarved Pokemon. Given its immense competition with special-attacking Fire types, it is instead physically focused but has enough Special Attack to effectively utilize Technician Hidden Power. Pure Special sets are more likely to find themselves outclassed however as Mud Shot is the only speed control option commonly available to that set. On the physical side it competes with Mega Charizard X, exchanging Charizard X's terrible Stealth Rock weakness on initial switchin for lower speed and immunity to Electric instead of Ground.
Stat Overview:
Speed: Speed is going to be the primary issue of contention, and finding the right balance is important. Bulky Ground choices include Landorus-T, Zygarde and Colossoil as a major threat too. If you want to be a stand-out offensive Ground type in CAP, you need to actually stand out. The most important aspect of this speed is the number of Scarfers you can outspeed at +1. Flame Charge is an excellent Tech boosted STAB, and in order for it to see use it actually has to have a tangible benefit. Beating Scarf 90-96 Pokemon fulfills this well. Being slower than Base 98-100 Pokemon opens up more counterplay while still providing the threat level necessary to make a +1/-1 Speed control option like Flame Charge or Bulldoze worthwhile.
Speed and Scarfers: It can be said that THE reason to ever run a speed increasing move (as opposed to running Scarf yourself and 4 strong attacks) for most offensive Pokemon is as a check against Scarfers. For slow offensive Pokemon this lends them to +2 Speed Boosters, whereas Shift Gear, Quiver Dance, and Dragon Dance are used because they simultaneously boost an offense (So they make 3HKO -> 2HKO and 2HKO -> OHKO). But Flame Charge sees almost no use on the multitude of mid-speed and even higher speed Fire types because +1 Speed on its own is simply not that impressive. Since Fire/Ground is uniquely suited to +1/-1 Speed modifications, what is or is not outsped at +1/-1 is very important.
Attack / SpA: As an offensive oriented CAP, the stats are also heavily offense oriented. On the SpA side, Technician Hidden Power already puts a lot of would-be counters out of commission, reducing them to checks. 88 SpA can always OHKO Landorus-T with HP Ice, and it honestly ought to. Latios and Latias are both bulky enough where this is not really an issue. The biggest problem with Technician for a physical attacker is the physical moves best with it are multi-hits, and consistency is not a multi-hit's strong point. Physical attack needs some padding to be effective, and 116 is high enough to make both Tech-boosted and non-tech boosted attacks worthwhile.
HP / Def / SpD: Every Pokemon has to have a weakness, and in this case its mostly physical defense that suffers. As a general rule Fire/Ground is a great shutout type for Fairy moves and the most common Hidden Power types (Ice/Fire/Grass for the occasional Gastrodon or Mega Pert), so it leans toward Special Defense as the better defensive stat. What is notable is that Scarf Plasmanta can still OHKO with Water Pulse, but Toxapex needs rocks to have a 50% chance to OHKO while 25f is uninvested.
Overall BST: Lots of GameFreak's Fire Starters have 534 BST. I think it's a cool number and the one point won't be missed :)
Sets:
As a straightforward attacker, 25f is going to rely mostly on your standard full offensive spread.
Assumptions: Offensive Pokemon that are successful tend to broaden their scope outside of STAB, so I will also assume physical Rock coverage in Rock Tomb (the usual type complement to Ground and a move that replicates Flame Charge/Bulldoze's Tech-boosted speed control) and Hidden Power.
All-Out Attacker: 252 Atk /252 Spe / 4 SpA ~Life Orb. Hasty will be assumed for offensive calcs, Jolly for defensive. Jolly loses no significant KOs however it does cause some low rolls to miss a KO without SR.
[317 HP / 331 Atk / [153 or 170] Defense / 213 SpA / 192 SpD / 322 Spe]
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 169-201 (53.3 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (105 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 75-88 (23.6 - 27.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
64+ Atk Scizor-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 158-187 (49.8 - 58.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Scizor-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 75-88 (23.6 - 27.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magearna All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 255-300 (80.4 - 94.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magearna Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 234-276 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 195-231 (61.5 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Magearna (OU Assault Vest) Fleur Cannon 35 - 41.6%
Tapu Koko (OU Choice Specs) HP Ice 31.8 - 37.5%
Clefable (OU Magic Guard) Knock Off 20.5 - 24.2%
Clefable (OU Unaware) Moonblast 19.5 - 23%
Zapdos (OU Roost + 3 Attacks) HP Ice 21.1 - 24.9%
Magnezone (OU Substitute Z) Flash Cannon 28.7 - 34%
0- Atk Amoonguss Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 133-157 (41.9 - 49.5%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 87-103 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- 79% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Sableye-Mega Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 199-235 (62.7 - 74.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Sableye-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 127-150 (40 - 47.3%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Celesteela (OU Defensive) Heavy Slam 23.6 - 28%
0 SpA Mollux Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 75-89 (23.6 - 28%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
With the exception of Ferrothorn Power Whip and some of Magearna's off-type Z-Moves, out Switch-In list from Threats Discussion is basically unaltered.
Offensive Calculations:
Note: All calculations use a 3-hit Bone Rush as a baseline. This is 12.5% stronger than Earthquake (112.5 vs 100) so multiply by 0.88 to get EQ calcs.
100% Bone Rush damage mimimums KO after SR or 1 layer of spikes depending on target with Earthquake.
2HKO List:
Keldeo (OU Choice Scarf) Bone Rush 83.5 - 99.3% guaranteed 2HKO
Tyranitar-Mega (OU Stealth Rock) Bone Rush 81.4 - 97.9% guaranteed 2HKO
Skarmory (OU Physically Defensive) Flare Blitz 80.4 - 96% guaranteed 2HKO
Zygarde (OU Substitute + Dragon Dance) HP Ice 79.7 - 94% guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mantine (OU Mixed Wall) Rock Tomb 78.8 - 93.2% guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Zygarde (OU Double Dance) HP Ice 78.5 - 92.9% guaranteed 2HKO
Gastrodon (OU Specially Defensive) Bone Rush 69.8 - 83.2% guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Swampert (OU Rain Sweeper) Bone Rush 69.5 - 83.5% guaranteed 2HKO
Mew (OU Double Dance) Flare Blitz 68.9 - 81.5% guaranteed 2HKO
Manaphy (OU Waterium Z) Bone Rush 65.1 - 76.5% guaranteed 2HKO
Manaphy (OU Tail Glow + 3 Attacks) Bone Rush 64.9 - 76.3% guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Pelipper (OU Defensive) Rock Tomb 64.3 - 76.4% guaranteed 2HKO
Swampert-Mega (OU Rain Sweeper) Bone Rush 59.8 - 72.1% guaranteed 2HKO
Tapu Fini (OU Defensive) Bone Rush 57.7 - 68.2% guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Gyarados (OU Mega Dragon Dance) Rock Tomb 57.4 - 68.2% guaranteed 2HKO
Latios (OU Mega Mixed Attacker) HP Ice 52.8 - 62.1% guaranteed 2HKO
Hydreigon (OU Choice Specs) HP Ice 51 - 60.9% guaranteed 2HKO
Latios-Mega (OU Mega Mixed Attacker) HP Ice 48.5 - 57.1% 90.2% chance to 2HKO
Dragonite (OU Flyinium Z) HP Ice 47.3 - 56.3% 81.6% chance to 2HKO
Latios (OU Choice Scarf) Flare Blitz 47.1 - 55.8% 74.2% chance to 2HKO
Latios (OU Offensive) Flare Blitz 47.1 - 55.8% 74.2% chance to 2HKO
Latios (OU Choice Specs) Flare Blitz 47.1 - 55.8% 74.2% chance to 2HKO
Obviously these are very impressive offensive calculations. The catch is this: To add STAB speed control to the set, you need to abandon one of Flare Blitz calcs, Bone Rush Calcs, Rock Tomb, or Hidden Power Ice. This fits the profile of nearly every effective CAP Offensive Pokemon, that they can alter set to address specific problems. Mega Crucibelle does this in the choice between Coil, Low Kick, and Wood Hammer. MegaZard X has to choose from two of Outrage's power, Dragon Claw's consistency, Roost's longevity or Earthquake's coverage alongside Flare Blitz and Dragon Dance. Far from being overpowered, this is a commonplace choice. Below are Bulldoze and Flame Charge calcs:
Checks:
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 828-984 (261.1 - 310.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 702-827 (221.4 - 260.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Azumarill (OU Belly Drum) Aqua Jet 140 - 166.5% guaranteed KO
Charizard-Mega-X (OU 3 Attacks + Roost) Earthquake 95.8 - 112.9% Guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock
Landorus-Therian (OU Choice Scarf) Earthquake 155.2 - 183.5% guaranteed KO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Water Shuriken (15 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 468-552 (147.6 - 174.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Pajantom: 252 Atk Pajantom Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 308-364 (97.1 - 114.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Pajantom: 252 Atk Pajantom Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 277-327 (87.3 - 103.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Plasmanta (Choice Scarf) Water Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 324-384 (102.2 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Latios Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 484-572 (152.6 - 180.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Hydreigon Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 472-556 (148.8 - 175.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Latias Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 428-508 (135 - 160.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Latios (OU Choice Specs) Draco Meteor 127.1 - 149.8% guaranteed KO
252 Atk Flygon Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 378-446 (119.2 - 140.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Latios-Mega (OU Mega Mixed Attacker) Draco Meteor 98.7 - 116.7% 93.8% chance to KO
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 255-300 (80.4 - 94.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Hard Counters:
Hippowdon (OU Physically Defensive) HP Ice 41.4 - 48.8% guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery [OHKOs with EQ]
Alomomola (OU WishPass) Bone Rush 39.9 - 46.7% guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery [2HKOs with Scald, Wish + Protect and Regen makes it unbreakable]
Gyarados-Mega (OU Mega Dragon Dance) Bone Rush 39.8 - 49.8% guaranteed 3HKO [OHKOs with Waterfall or EQ]
Slowbro (OU Mega Tank) Bone Rush 39.5 - 47.2% guaranteed 3HKO [OHKOs with Scald]
Slowbro (OU Calm Mind) Bone Rush 39.5 - 47.2% guaranteed 3HKO [OHKOs with Scald]
Latias-Mega (OU Mega Calm Mind) HP Ice 29.3 - 34.8% 13.3% chance to 3HKO [OHKOs with Surf]
Rotom-Wash (OU Defensive) Rock Tomb 27.7 - 33% guaranteed 4HKO [OHKOs with Hydro Pump]
Slowbro-Mega (OU Mega Tank) Bone Rush 26.6 - 32.7% guaranteed 4HKO [OHKOs with Scald]
Slowbro-Mega (OU Calm Mind) Bone Rush 26.6 - 32.7% guaranteed 4HKO [OHKOs with Scald]
Vs. Tomohawk:
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 183-216 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Bone Rush (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 168-204 (40.5 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Bone Rush (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 280-340 (67.6 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
25F Can't break Tomohawk's Roost + Leftovers recovery and falls to recoil. Even 5-hit Life Orb Bone Rush can't break Hawk without multiple successive uses on the Roost.
Vs. Arghonaut:
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Bone Rush (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 225-273 (54.3 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Arghonaut Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 360-424 (113.5 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Arghonaut Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 294-348 (92.7 - 109.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Arghonaut Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 316-376 (99.6 - 118.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Arghonaut with EQ or Water STAB is more than capable of handling 25f.
Summary:
CAP 25f has good matchups against Choice Scarfers with Less than 97 Base Speed by utilizing speed control to give it an edge. It threatens a considerable portion of the metagame with just 4 moves, half of which are Technician boosted. It can swap out its power moves for more Technician-backed support at the cost of some power or coverage, a choice most effective offensive Pokemon have to make in the metagame.
CAP 25f struggles with faster Choice Scarf Pokemon that can hit it super-effectively. In neutral matchups against the large number of Base 100 Pokemon it might win an exchange but at significant cost. Its 4x Water weakness makes it extremely susceptible to Water-type priority moves possessed by Azumarill, Greninja, and less commonly on Arghonaut. Physically bulky Water types not weak to Ground (and Rock to an extent) are also very effective answers.
Overall: I generally am trying to do some different stuff with the spread, try out slightly lower speeds, letting us miss certain benchmark, while also trying to keep our bulk on the lower side compared to other possible options.
Speed: I was originally considering something around 97 originally, since that would let us outspeed certain Pokemon on our threatlist like Volkraken and Jumbao consistently. However, I eventually decided to keep it lower than these benchmarks so were are better pressured by these Pokemon. They still wouldn't be able to switch into CAPf's attacks, but they could certainly outspeed us in a 1v1 and KO us through that. It also maintains Zygarde as a dominant offensive check, as it can hit us with Thousand Arrows before we move. This speed tier still has some good merits however. It is still able to outspeed Landorus naturally, meaning CAPf will be better able to outright check Offensive variants if carrying the correct Hidden Power.
Physical Tankiness: 119.267 Special Tankiness: 121.6934 Physical Sweepiness: 146.8974 Special Sweepiness: 117.6664
BSR: 268.49544
Role in the Metagame: An attacker with phenomenal coverage that can tear apart defensive cores with the right prediction. Contributes just enough defensive utility to find a place on balance teams, acting as a wallbreaker or secondary sweeper.
Physical Attack: A fairly high Attack stat creates room for supereffective, Technician-boosted "speed control" moves to do the job and threaten OHKOs on offensive pokemon like Volkraken, Excadrill, Necturna, Kitsunoh, and Jumbao and Tapu Bulu after Stealth Rocks. However I decided to not go too high with this Attack stat, because physical walls that are hit neutrally by 25f's moves should stand a chance as defensive counters. After all, Fire/Ground has some of the best offensive coverage in the game.
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Bulldoze vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Volkraken: 413-486 (121.1 - 142.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 432-510 (119.6 - 141.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Necturna: 283-338 (105.2 - 125.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kitsunoh: 330-390 (109.6 - 129.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
and
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tapu Bulu: 257-304 (91.4 - 108.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
and
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jumbao: 296-351 (91 - 108%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
These calcs are just here to support the above claim. A lot of offensive mons are in range of being OHKO'd by Technician-boosted moves.
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Rock Tomb vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 562-665 (189.2 - 223.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Obviously if we get the above Rock move we can make short work of Mega Charizard Y.
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Rock Tomb vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 278-330 (83.9 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Our main Life Orb set always OHKOs Moxie Gyarados after rocks but never OHKOs without them, creating healthy counterplay options. However any Gyarados set running Intimidate can check us much more reliably.
much more to come!
Special Attack: 85 Special Attack allows a Jolly or Adamant-natured 25f to still OHKO offensive Landorus from full health with Life Orb HP Ice. Landorus is a common switch-in to physical attackers and a big threat to us with its Ground-type attacks, so having a reliable answer for it helps cement our role as a wallbreaker. Since our concept is Astounding Ability Actualization and our ability is Technician, I think it's pretty important that we have some crucial OHKOs and 2HKOs with Hidden Power. What better way to actualize this ability?
0- SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 322-380 (100.9 - 119.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This was the deciding calc for 85 Special Attack.
16 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 280-332 (87.7 - 104%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
If we don't want to run Life Orb, we can achieve a similar results vs offensive Landorus (as long as rocks are up) by running a Hasty/Naive nature and placing 16 EVs in Special Attack.
0- SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 276-328 (77 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
We don't OHKO offensive Zygarde without significant Special Attack investment, which I feel is appropriate given that it is a much more specially defensive mon in terms of its stat spread.
0- SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 265-317 (80 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Just like with Rock Tomb, we only OHKO Gyarados with our coverage if rocks are up. Running HP Electric instead of Rock Tomb is an option if we want to ignore Intimidate drops from Gyarados. It also is guaranteed to fry Pelipper, who we outspeed, with or without rocks up.
0- SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 218-260 (51.2 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Even though Specially Defensive Gastrodon is pretty rare in the CAP metagame, this is still an impressive calc that I thought was worth sharing.
Bulk: I decided to give 25f surprisingly decent bulk to take advantage of what I consider to be a phenomenal defensive typing. People still talk about Fire as if it is an entirely offensive typing, which I find ridiculous given that it has 3 weaknesses and 6 resistances. Paired with Ground, this typing becomes an amazing check to many Electric types, taking little from their Hidden Power Ice and forcing them to consider Hidden Power Water (eww) in order to not be walled. With these defensive stats, 25f can easily take 2 of any HP Ice, Dazzling Gleam, or U-Turn from Tapu Koko, making it a full counter to one of the tiers preeminent threats. 25f in general with be a great answer to Volt-Turn cores as it resists and is immune to those pivoting moves and is very difficult to switch into.
252 SpA Life Orb Jumbao Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 179-212 (59.4 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Jumbao can't knock us out with a Life Orb Giga Drain and risks being set up on with a speed-boosting Fire move in the sun.
252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 203-239 (67.4 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
The same goes for Syclant's Ice Beam. It can't force us out and it enables us to set up.
252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 117-139 (38.8 - 46.1%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
We can switch into a lot of common Plasmanta sets without seriously risking a 2HKO, as we resist a lot of the coverage moves that it wants to run.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 91-108 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
and
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 91-108 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
and
252 Atk Tapu Koko U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Camerupt: 40-48 (13.2 - 15.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Stealth Rock
and
252 Atk Tapu Koko Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Camerupt: 219-258 (72.7 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
We are a legit counter to all common variants of Tapu Koko, even with no defensive investment. Even the ultra-rare Flyinium Z never OHKOs us.
Speed Tier: An 89 Speed tier enables 25f to outspeed and threaten to both OHKO and set-up on Excadrill with a speed-boosting Fire move that is boosted by Technician. It also enables 25f at +1 Speed to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame, including Mega Alazakam. This helps cement its role as a secondary sweeper, or just an attacker that can be difficult to easily revenge kill. 89 Speed is also enough to make 25f a potential lead if it's given access to some form of hazards, which is not uncommon for a Ground-type. Threatening common Sticky Web setters with speed-boosting Fire moves, and threatening common Stealth Rock setters with Ground moves, may make for a fun niche.
I’ve really enjoyed this stat submission process so far; feel free to comment/criticize. Thanks!
The first thing Iooked at when determining what speed I should opt for was to see what offensive Water types do we want to beat us. The three main offensive Water types in the CAP metagame are Greninja, Naviathan, and Krillowat. Greninja is going to beat us no matter what our stat spread is, and if we want to have enough speed to beat anything of relevance, we're going to beat Naviathan, so that really only leaves Krillowat. A few calcs showed me that outspeeding Kril would be very bad for the metagame, so I opted below 105. It looks like our match-up against Pajantom is going to come down to who attacks first, and since the standard Pajantom set right now is Jolly, I chose to go above 101. At 102, it speed-ties Garchomp, which I feel is a pretty appropriate place to be.
Attack:
I've seen a could of responses thus far with 116 Attack, but if you go up to 118, it gets you a few really good perks. Our Adamant set can actually OHKO the standard Toxapex set even if its Earth move is as weak as Earthquake (that felt weird to type).
252+ Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 304-359 (100.3 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It also significantly improves our match-up against Ferrothorn and Cawmodore. In Cawmodore's case, it turns our Jolly Life Orb set from having an 87.5% chance to OHKO with our utility Fire moves into a straight OHKO. In Ferro's case, we don't even need to have the Life Orb. Our Jolly Firinium Z set can throw lethal Fire utility moves to OHKO Ferrothorn. At 116, we would need a Life Orb to OHKO with some of the weaker ones.
Physical Defense:
Most of the attacks we want to take from the physical side are resisted or don't generally hit that hard. Two notable exception to this is Kartana's Leaf Blade and Hawlucha's High Jump Kick/Acrobatics, so I gave it stats to take those
252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 271-321 (81.8 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 279-328 (84.2 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Then I maxed out the Special Defense to give it as much special bulk as possible.
Physical Tankiness: 107.923 Special Tankiness: 125.237 Physical Sweepiness: 155.132 Special Sweepiness: 134.806
BSR: 279.90324
Offensive stats : (poll jumping redacted) Anyway, Fire / Ground gives us some very powerful STABs so we would still do significant damages even without a sky-high Attack stat. 85 Spa is probably enough since CAP 25f will always OHKO offensive Lando-T with LO boosted HP Ice.
Bulk : I didn't give much physical bulk since after doing some calcs I noticed that the needed Defense to survive two Power Whips from Ferrothorn is a bit too high and despite our typing I don't think we should try to make this a switch-in to Mawile-Mega, especially since it'll probably end up being a mixed oriented Sweeper and we're likely to lower either our physical Defense or Special Attack if Hidden Power is our only Special move. I also wanted to keep a weakness to powerful priorities as an attempt to make this CAP more balanced. With the given Special bulk you'll always live an All-out Pummeling from Magearna and Earth Power from Krilowatt.
Speed : I bring much more Speed that any other current submissions since Fire / Ground is a very good typing for what could be a RK to most set-up sweepers like Necturna, Cawmodore, Aurumoth, Naviathan and Volcarona with a Choice Scarf. 109 is enough to outspeed +2 Adamant Nect and speed tying with kartana while being remaining slower than the Lati twins without Scarf, two Pokemon which should be our best answers.
Final Submission : 84/115/81/70/93/85 (528 BST)
119.46 PT
139.35 ST
149.23 PS
100.19 SS
BSR: 270.71
Stats: Speed: 85 Speed allows us to outspeed what I think should be our best offensive check in Zygarde, as long as we sacrifice strength by running +speed nature which results in Zygarde not being 2hkod so either way Zygarde remains a decent switch in, particularly bulkier variants, which is what I wanted to preserve with F's speed stat. Running +speed allows F to hit some good benchmarks such as out speeding Timid Heatran, Jolly Bulu, Spdf Excadrill, standard stallbreaker Gliscor etc whilst also being able to outpace everything that creeps to 290 for Zygarde.
Offensive Stats: 115 attack I feel is a pretty standard choice, giving us enough power to fulfill the "wallbreaker" role I had in mind for this spread whilst not being too much to overpower our checks.
All calcs done itemless, whilst i imagine with this spread Band, Iapapa or AV or shuca or something will be most common, I'll leave that to imagination and just give pure calcs.
All adamant calcs to show that checks are retained with this Atk stat, with Jolly obviously you beat whats previously mentioned at the expense of chip against these:
252+ Atk 25F Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 44 Def Gliscor: 157-186 (44.6 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk 25F Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 141-166 (39.3 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk 25F Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 144-169 (45.1 - 52.9%) -- 28.1% chance to 2HKO (Shaky but scarf lando isnt gonna sponge this anyway)
252+ Atk 25F Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 174-205 (44.1 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk 25F Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 144-171 (36.5 - 43.4%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk 25F Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios-Mega: 99-117 (32.8 - 38.8%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk 25F Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 172-204 (42.8 - 50.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk 25F Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 153-180 (36.9 - 43.4%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk 25F Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 138-163 (32.8 - 38.8%) -- 5.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
With this spread, I imagine 25F is going to break offense by switching in on things it walls (which ill have calcs for when i go over defences), and getting a free attack off as they're forced out.
Calcs done in jolly so we can see the minimum ammount of pressure this thing provides with this spread:
252 Atk 25F Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 344-408 (122.4 - 145.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk 25F Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 205-243 (72.9 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk 25F Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 266-314 (88.3 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk 25F Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 320-378 (106.3 - 125.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk 25F Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 320-378 (88.1 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk 25F Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 266-314 (73.2 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk 25F Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 288-342 (72.5 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 25F 25F Flare Blitz vs. +1 152 HP / 0 Def Hawlucha: 153-180 (45.6 - 53.7%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk 25F Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Pajantom: 199-235 (53.4 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk 25F Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 208-246 (72.9 - 86.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk 25F Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 206-246 (67.9 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
Obviously theres more than that but you dont need me to tell you STAB Fire move is OHKOing Ferro and STAB Ground move is OHKOing Heatran.
With Spa i wanted to avoid the OHKO on defensive pelipper and Gyarados with HP electric since the more common offensive pelippers were always going to die with a reasonable Spa stat. I also wanted to avoid doing any damage to Mega Latios since its like our best check.
Whilst these are calcd with hasty for the sake of the calcs, youd probably be better off taking the power dip as this spread likes coming in on things.
0 SpA Technician 25F Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 204-240 (56.9 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Technician 25F Hidden Power Ice vs. 160 HP / 28 SpD Zygarde: 200-236 (50.3 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Technician 25F Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios-Mega: 84-100 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- 94.4% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(also does nothing to -spdf Mega Lati obviously, just in case your worried abour ttar/colo)
0 SpA Technician 25F Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 196-232 (59.2 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Technician 25F Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pelipper: 260-308 (99.6 - 118%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Technician 25F Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 228 SpD Pelipper: 200-236 (61.9 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Technician 25F Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 160-192 (37.6 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (less than EQ lol)
Bulk: With bulk I know I wanted a relatively bulky spread to actualise this playstyle, whilst my original spread was gated due to the limitations placed on defensive stats, the current spread accomplishes what it needs to. The only baseline I wanted with this spread was to avoid being OHKO'd by Toxapex Scald after Stealth Rock for the special side. For the Physical side, I wanted the option to be there to avoid being 2hkod by Ferrothorn's Power Whip if invested, which can be achieved with 160HP investment.
Now have another calc wall - these will show that this spread for F gives the playstyle of switching in on common meta threats, forcing them out and hitting their answer for a decent chunk or gaining momentum by doubling.
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD 25F: 85-100 (27.5 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD 25F: 84-99 (27.1 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Magearna All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD 25F: 221-260 (71.5 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD 25F: 169-199 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Magearna Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD 25F: 105-124 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD 25F: 52-62 (16.8 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO
0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD 25F: 56-66 (18.1 - 21.3%) -- possible 5HKO (this thing can run more spa but it shouldnt matter)
0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD 25F: 97-115 (31.3 - 37.2%) -- 82.4% chance to 3HKO (Tox here)
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def 25F: 147-174 (47.5 - 56.3%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO (hurts but as mentioned earlier, can be fixed, we also force it out so wont need to take 2 without getting off a hit obviously riskier, though)
0 SpA Tapu Fini Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD 25F: 52-62 (16.8 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO (scald is super uncommon, especially since bulu isnt as common anymore)
252 SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD 25F: 69-82 (22.3 - 26.5%) -- 21.7% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def 25F: 78-92 (25.2 - 29.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
obviously checks become a lot better with Items/ some investment switching into Things like Torn Hurricanes, Focus blasts from Bao etc
Yes my Psweep is low compared to the limit but i dont think F needs anymore tbh.
Fast Offensive Attacker with Physical and Mixed sets, using powerful STAB combo to complement offenses
Good special bulk to check many special attackers through its typing, but doesn't like chip damage
Poor physical bulk and an average speed tier leads to counter play from physical attacks and faster opponents, respectively, in addition to those that resist STAB combo/really bulky walls
Potential Scarf set to check common boosters and scarfers
101 Speed:
Out speeds base 100's (Volcarona, Charizard) and everything below (Lando, Zygarde, Naviathan)
Out speed most notably by Krillowatt, Garchomp, Lati@s, Keldeo, but are slower than a lot of things
Speed tie with Pajantom and Thundurus-T, but Thundurus-T can't hurt us reliably without +2 Focus Blast
118 Attack:
Hits hard due to good offensive typing and number of super effective matchups
OKHO's those with moderate defense and weak to STAB
2HKO's those with good defense and weak to STAB or those neutral to STAB with moderate defense
Skarmory
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Typhlosion Flame Wheel vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 203-242 (60.9 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Magearna
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Typhlosion Flame Wheel vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 320-377 (106.3 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Toxapex
252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 276-328 (91 - 108.2%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery
Pajantom (if we win speed tie)
252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pajantom: 265-312 (85.7 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
Colossoil
252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 259-305 (63.6 - 74.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
Still walled by physical walls and those that resist our STABs, many people were worried about the offensive typing but this spread keeps us from overwhelming the metagame
I'm running Flare Blitz with life on most of these just as a "worst case scenario", don't know if we will end up with it however and in most cases these guys can recover against us until we recoil to death
QED: Even with an overpowered STAB that we may not get, we still can't break through these guys
Tomohawk
252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 185-218 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Pyroark
252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 165-196 (37.2 - 44.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Arghonaut - survives 2 hits and threatens with Water STAB
252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 124 Def Arghonaut: 183-216 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Chansey - Stongest hit barely 2HKOs, and recoil would be nasty
252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 316-372 (45 - 52.9%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
Zapdos
252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 192-227 (50.1 - 59.2%) -- 81.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Latios - Survives switch in and threatens us out
252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 143-169 (47.5 - 56.1%) -- 81.6% chance to 2HKO
Mega-Latias - we are setup fodder
252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 101-120 (27.7 - 32.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Clefable
252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Landorus-T (Choice Scarf)
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 173-204 (54.2 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Stratagem
252 Atk Life Orb Typhlosion Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Stratagem: 169-199 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Take Aways:
Even with an overpowered move with life orb, we still miss out on most 2HKOs on walls while losing a lot of HP to recoil
Some of our threats can easily switch in or just survive 1v1 with ease
86 Special Attack:
Special Attack is high enough to use with Hidden Power/other coverage options, specifically against those who have double weaknesses
Landorus-T
0- SpA Life Orb Technician Typhlosion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 322-385 (84.2 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Gliscor
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Typhlosion Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 68 SpD Gliscor: 348-411 (98.8 - 116.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
Zygarde
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Typhlosion Hidden Power Ice vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 312-369 (77.2 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Still low enough that it won't run through things
Tomohawk -> Still a counter
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Typhlosion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tomohawk: 177-211 (42.7 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Typhlosion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tomohawk: 231-273 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Latios
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Typhlosion Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 138-164 (45.8 - 54.4%) -- 50.8% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Typhlosion Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 177-211 (58.8 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega-Latias
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Typhlosion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias-Mega: 104-125 (28.5 - 34.3%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Typhlosion Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias-Mega: 135-161 (37 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-> any Lati set switches in still
59 HP:
Life Orb number
114 Special Defense:
Special Defense is high so that 25f can utilize the defensive potential of the typing
We tank resisted hits from some notable threats in the metagame, allowing us to check them, even if only once per match for some
Magearna (we are a counter without boosts)
252 SpA Magearna Subzero Slammer (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 170-201 (65.6 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Magearna All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 186-219 (71.8 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega-Charizard Y
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 136-161 (52.5 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion in Sun: 140-165 (54 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Magnezone
252+ SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 64-76 (24.7 - 29.3%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 71-84 (27.4 - 32.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Clefable
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 44-52 (16.9 - 20%) -- possible 5HKO
Mollux
252+ SpA Mollux Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 130-154 (50.1 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Heatran
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 176-208 (67.9 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Jumbao
252 SpA Jumbao Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 169-201 (65.2 - 77.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Tornadus-T
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 144-169 (55.5 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Volcarona
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 123-146 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 84% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 136-160 (52.5 - 61.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Still low enough to fear super effective moves, strong neutral hits and repeated hits
Water moves - anything with a SpA above 81 with Scald OHKOs
Toxapex
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 192-228 (74.1 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Stratagem
252 SpA Life Orb Stratagem Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 218-257 (84.1 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Mega-Latios
252 SpA Latios-Mega Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 222-262 (85.7 - 101.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Syclant
252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Typhlosion: 208-247 (80.3 - 95.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
57 Physical Defense:
Defense gets the short end of the stick, as I'd rather have decent SpDef and bad Defense rather than okay for both
Also provides an inherent weakness, which isn't a bad thing as it adds to counterplay
Defense still allows to take some resisted hits
Mega-Scizor
+2 64+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Typhlosion: 184-217 (71 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Cawmadore - Scarf 25f can check it
+6 252 Atk Cawmodore Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Typhlosion: 180-212 (69.4 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Latios
252 SpA Latios Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Typhlosion: 205-243 (79.1 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Aqua Jet
0 Atk Arghonaut Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Typhlosion: 300-352 (115.8 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Zygarde
252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Typhlosion: 209-246 (80.6 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Colossoil
252+ Atk Colossoil Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Typhlosion: 211-249 (81.4 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Take Aways:
Holds true to our Checks and Counters list for the most part
Itz ya boi, BACK, at it again with a spicy hot spread that isn't spicy mayonnaise.
Speed: 86 speed allows CAPf to outpace standard offensive Tomohawk with a neutral nature, while it can opt to outpace Zygarde (at the cost of a nice drop in power) by running a positive speed boosting nature. At +1 it outpaces the entire unboosted meta, while it is outsped by common Choice Scarf users, so a set utilizing speed control attacks would not be over powered.
Bulk: 105 HP is high enough to comfortably abuse Flare Blitz with suffering from too much painful recoil, which would be detrimental to this bulkier approach. 105/80 Special bulk allows it to avoid the 3HKO from Specs Tapu Koko's HP Ice (and Dazzling Gleam as a result) while simultaneously avoiding an OHKO from Toxapex's Scald after rocks. 105/73 physical defense doesn't do much favours, as defense is unfortunately a dump stat of sorts.
Offense: 116 is a good stat for a wallbreaker, doing great damage while not being overbearing. 75 SpA allows to utilize Technician for great HP lure sets without being an actual special sweeper.
Offensive
252+ Atk Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 153-181 (36.9 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 229-271 (55.3 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian: 154-183 (40.3 - 47.9%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
-1 252+ Atk Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian: 103-123 (26.9 - 32.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Technician Darmanitan Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 224-264 (58.6 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Technician Darmanitan Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 248-292 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 230-272 (75.9 - 89.7%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 344-408 (113.5 - 134.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 180-212 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 266-314 (87.5 - 103.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 396-466 (56.4 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 396-466 (56.4 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 264-312 (37.6 - 44.4%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 220-259 (31.3 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 175-207 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 145-172 (36.8 - 43.6%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 262-309 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 219-258 (55.5 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 211-249 (58.9 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 126-149 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 141-166 (39.3 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 129-153 (36 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 192-226 (53.6 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- SpA Technician Darmanitan Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 192-228 (53.6 - 63.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Technician Darmanitan Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 216-256 (60.3 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Darmanitan Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 281-333 (78.4 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Notable Calc)
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 181-213 (54.6 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (rip)
252+ Atk Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 121-143 (36.5 - 43.2%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 110-129 (33.2 - 38.9%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 165-194 (49.8 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- SpA Technician Darmanitan Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 184-220 (55.5 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Seaking: 354-417 (107.5 - 126.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Technician Darmanitan Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 204-244 (61.6 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (bih dead)
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arghonaut: 186-219 (44.9 - 52.8%) -- 25% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 174-205 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 208-246 (46.9 - 55.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 139-165 (31.3 - 37.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 139-165 (31.3 - 37.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 117-138 (26.4 - 31.1%) -- 30.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Defensive
4 Atk Arghonaut Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 204-240 (58.1 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- SpA Arghonaut Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 276-328 (78.6 - 93.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (hhmm)
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 255-300 (72.6 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Latios Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 172-204 (49 - 58.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (Psychic does almost exactly the same damage)
200+ Atk Expert Belt Seaking Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 677-797 (192.8 - 227%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 252-300 (71.7 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darmanitan: 160-189 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 41.8% chance to 2HKO (ouch)
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 95-112 (27 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 94-111 (26.7 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Twinkle Tackle (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 126-149 (35.8 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 59-69 (16.8 - 19.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 105-125 (29.9 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 127-150 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 191-225 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magearna All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 248-292 (70.6 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Kerfluffle All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 340-402 (96.8 - 114.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Pyroak Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Darmanitan: 148-176 (42.1 - 50.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
First of all, 83 speed allows us to outspeed Gyarados and Necturna and at +1 falls just shy of outspeeding Mega Zam / Mega Aerodactyl. This allows cap25f to function as both a wallbreaker or an effective cleaner without being broken. 125 attack gives cap25f the firepower to break through Clefable with stab moves. The special attack is unable to 2HKO hasty Mega Latios with hp ice with a life orb equipped. I found some attacks such as Magearna's focus blast and Ferrothorn's power whip are far too strong for the set tankiness so I ignored these however, I found that apart from these pokemon there is next to nothing else we would want switch in on that will ever be a threat. So I settled on some lower defenses that still allow us tank resisted hits but will still increase counterplay through consistent chip damage and priority.
4 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios-Mega: 109-130 (36.2 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Camerupt: 252-298 (87.8 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 108-127 (37.6 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 104-122 (36.2 - 42.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Camerupt: 60-71 (20.9 - 24.7%) -- 91.3% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
HP: Ideal Life Orb number and ideal HP to balance out its rather weak Physical Bulk. Attack: I put the rest into its Attack just so that it can actually do pressure Pkm. Defense: With a base HP of 89, this Defense is enough to get 4HKOed by U-Turn Defensive Mega Scizor after Stealth Rock.
0 Atk Scizor-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 72-86 (22.5 - 26.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
It also survives Psyshock from Timid Tapu Lele in Psychic Terrain, but without Stealth Rock.
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt in Psychic Terrain: 267-315 (83.6 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Other then that, I don't see any reason why Camerupt should have more physical bulk. It gets OHKOed by Ground moves anyway. And Stone Edge from Landorus-T is a safe 2HKO anyway, even more so after Stealth Rock. This is in case your opponent thinks you are going to switch out Camerupt. And due to Camerupt's typing, it already resists the types it wll often switch into, such as Bug with U-Turn from Tapu Koko or Scizor. More bulky won't make much of a difference. SpA: 87 is enough to OHKO Landorus-T with Hidden Power Ice, a Naive/Hasty nature, without any special investment, and after Stealth Rock. If you go for a Jolly nature, then Life Orb Hidden Power Ice is also enough to OHKO Landorus-T without Stealth Rock. Jolly, Life Orb, Hidden Power Ice, and Stealth Rock is required to OHKO standard Gliscor. On the other hand, Naive/Hasty nature, Life Orb, and Hidden Power Ice is enough to OHKO Gliscor. This combination only needs the addition of 1 Spike to OHKO fast, offensive Zygarde! SpD: With this spread,
- Timid, Scarf Magnezone's Flash Cannon has a 0.2% chance to 4HKO it after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 80-94 (25 - 29.4%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- Modest Magnezone's Flash Cannon is a clean 4HKO without Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 87-103 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
- Timid, Spec Tapu Koko's Hidden Power Ice is a clean 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 96-114 (30 - 35.7%) -- 35.8% chance to 3HKO
- Timid, Magnet Tapu Koko's Hidden Power Ice is a clean 5HKO without Stealth Rock
252 SpA Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 65-77 (20.3 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
- survives Psychic from Timid Tapu Lele in Psychic Terrain without Stealth Rock
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt in Psychic Terrain: 268-316 (84 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- Clefable's Moon Blast is a clean 4HKO after Stealth Rock. 5HKO without Stealth Rock and even with a Naive nature.
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 59-70 (18.4 - 21.9%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Camerupt: 66-78 (20.6 - 24.4%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
What all this shows is that Camerupt is one of the few Ground Pkm that can switch in on Pkm such as Zapdos or Tapu Koko or Magnezone without fearing one of their coverage moves (Heat Wave, Hidden Power Ice/Grass/Fire, etc., aside from Water, of course, but who uses Hidden Power Water anyway?). Excadrilll, Landorus-T, Zygarde, Colossoil, they all have to fear that the opponent has a coverage move that will threaten them. Camerupt doesn't have to fear, on the other hand. Speed: 96 is used to outspeed Zygarde, Tapu Lele, Gliscor and threaten them.
I already covered Tapu Koko, Clefable, Magnezone, and Mega Scizor in Attack, Defense, Special Attack, and Special Defense.
0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 64-76 (20 - 23.8%) -- 48.4% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock (5HKO without Stealth Rock)
0 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 50-59 (15.6 - 18.4%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Magearna Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 159-188 (49.8 - 58.9%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 107-126 (33.5 - 39.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
It is, however, shaky when Stealth Rock is involved. This applies to Skarmory as well.
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 145-172 (45.4 - 53.9%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 74-87 (23.1 - 27.2%) -- 63.9% chance to 4HKO
So long Ferrothorn doesn't use Power Whip (which is a 2HKO),
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 104-123 (32.6 - 38.5%) -- 98.4% chance to 3HKO
As for the rest, most of them can 2HKO us. To give an example:
252 SpA Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 153-180 (47.9 - 56.4%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO
It can at least survive this:
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Dark Pulse vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 270-318 (84.6 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is for mind games if your opponent isn't sure whether to go for a water move or another move.
- - -
It Camerupt chooses to run Choice Scarf:
-1 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 130-154 (40.7 - 48.2%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Zapdos: 204-241 (53.2 - 62.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 145-172 (37.8 - 44.9%) -- 70.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 229-270 (81.4 - 96%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
It only needs some additional chip damage to OHKO them.
On the other hand, Camerupt has a hard time:
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 159-187 (40.3 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 139-165 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 44 Def Gliscor: 144-169 (40.9 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 126-148 (28.4 - 33.4%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 238-282 (33.9 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 157-186 (39.1 - 46.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Swampert-Mega: 138-163 (40.4 - 47.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Camerupt needs Life Orb or Choice Band to achieve a 2HKO, but this is at the cost of its HP and which is why I made its base HP 89 so that it won't die as quickly to its own recoil and to switching in on certain Pkm.
Quagsire is one of the few switch-ins:
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 156-185 (39.5 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Band Camerupt, on the other hand, is somewhat shaky.
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 180-213 (45.6 - 54%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
As for SpV Gastrodon, it cannot stomach Life Orb Flareblitz + Life Orb Earthquake.
Camerupt also needs Life Orb + Stealth Rock to OHKO Calm Toxapex.
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Toxapex: 268-320 (88.4 - 105.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery
If Gyarados, after Stealth Rock, intimidates Camerupt and mega-evolves after that, and if Camerupt uses Life Orb Flare Blitz in two turns, Mega Gyarados will survive as well, but won't have much HP left.
Just underspeeding Latios seems like a fine speed benchmark, as Latios is one of our biggest checks. 75 SpA is just enough to run Hidden Power Ice to hit Landorus, Gliscor, and Zygarde, but not nearly strong enough to make sets with SpA investment worthwhile. It's ST is also very high to make the most of it's immunity to Electric and resistsance to its common coverage moves. It's PT is abysmal so it leaves open priority and plenty of faster pokemon as good checks to it. It's typing lends it towards being a wall breaker so leaving it susceptible to revenge killing on at least one end of the spectrum makes sense.
I realize that most of these submission posts are in an early stage of development, but please make sure you include an adequate section on this Pokemon's place in the metagame: this means showing us how the stat spread interacts with it's switch-ins, checks and counters. If your spread is designed to overcome many of our listed checks and counters, the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that the spread will open up additional counterplay options, to ensure that we are not left with no avenues of counterplay. Any submission post that does not indicate its spread's relationship to the metagame in a meaningful way will be disregarded.
I wasnt sure if this was really worth posting but figured I might as well since Ive been following fire quite carefully
Summary: HP is high as possible while maintaining a starter-like spread in order to minimize the punishment of recoil damage Atk sits in a range that maintains our checks and counters list as cleanly as possible with common stab moves Spa is minimized to minimize the impact of hidden power which only aims to hurt our checklist. also includes a spooooky dip into the 60s woo00oo0 PT allows us to decently tank any attack from Mega Mawile (especially when holding a z-crystal) including knock off and threaten with a burn or ohko. Also barely avoids a 2hko from ferrothorn (.....) with power whip when uninvested. ST allows us the absolute maximum bulk available in order to barely eat +1 twinkle tackle or +0 AoP from mag and not get 2hkod by plasmanta uninvested. Speed allows to outspeed adamant zygarde when jolly. It underspeeds things that should counter it such as offensive Hawks (when adamant), waters like Fini and Rotom-W, grounds like Landorus and Excadrill. It removes viability from Scarf that 85+ may have, which improves the range of our movepool.
PT: 124.2 ST: 139.9 PS: 146.7 SS: 97.5 BSR: 270.3
potential changes: reconfiguring defenses in order to reach 110 or 115 hp (with the same PT and ST)
Physical Tankiness: 114.5
Special Tankiness: 139.3
Physical Sweepiness: 136.7
Special Sweepiness: 115.1
My position is that 25f should be difficult to switch in on, but easy to force out. Adding special investment should give enough additional special power to change its check-list, boosting the difficulty in switching in, but should make its main attacks weak enough that investing is a real sacrifice. We should have enough bulk that we can switch in multiple times per game, using our decent defensive type, to set up difficult situations for the opponent, but not enough that our offensive checks and counters are unable to perform their job and force us out.
A few additional random notes: I wanted to leave room for our movepool to enhance our power through synergy, without becoming ridiculous, the way a more spread with more physical sweepiness would. After all, it's hard to take power away from an overly strong stat spread, but quite easy, especially with Technician, to add power to a weaker stat spread; for that reason I chose to err on the weaker side offensively. Another reason I chose this spread over the frailer one because it is more different from the pool of submitted spreads by virtue of having non-sweeper stats but a decent special attack. I think there are already some decent submissions with high Atk which I don't want as much to compete with.
On to the details and calcs!
109 Atk is chosen so that none of our physical sets, including Choice Band ones, can 2HKO our most reliable counter, Latios-Mega, and to make Arghonaut a better check, able to switch in multiple times per game. However, we do need enough strength to be a real threat in the metagame, and 109 is as high as the bound allows. It is only just under the "110 offensive stat floor" mentioned by Gross Sweep, and if needed Technician can intervene.
By default we pressure most of those on our pressure list, and lose to all our listed counters. Many of our switch-ins do virtually no damage to us, so I'm not mentioning most of them here.
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 332-392 (118.1 - 139.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 396-468 (115.4 - 136.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volkraken: 348-410 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-Mega: 736-868 (207.9 - 245.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 199-235 (69.8 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kerfluffle: 165-195 (53.3 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Stratagem: 160-188 (49.8 - 58.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO (without a boosting item or coverage, not even 126 Atk is enough to have a more than miniscule chance of 2HKOing)
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jumbao: 356-420 (109.5 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian: 135-160 (35.3 - 41.8%) -- 87.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 127-150 (39.8 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 123-145 (30.4 - 35.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 123-145 (34.4 - 40.6%) -- 54.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios-Mega: 129-153 (42.8 - 50.8%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 121-143 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 136-161 (41 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 105-124 (31.7 - 37.4%) -- 89.7% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pelipper in Rain: 64-76 (24.5 - 29.1%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 153-180 (38.8 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 151-178 (37.6 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Camerupt Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Arghonaut: 178-210 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
80 Spe is chosen to be outsped by all the relevant Pokemon on our C+C, specifically Gyarados and Landorus-T, as well as Adamant Pajantom, while still being fast enough to outspeed the unboosted metagame with a scarf. The Pokemon we're supposed to switch in on either are so slow that any decent speed stat will outspeed them, or weak enough against us that we don't need to outspeed them. Because of this, I didn't think our speed stat was a top priority.
87 SpA is chosen to make physical sets lose against Landorus-T, one of our most common checks, as well as to keep semi-mixed sets from Latios-Mega. It is high to allow sets with special investment to beat some of the Pokemon that would otherwise check us, depending on our choice of moveset. Having this flexibility allows us to be a more effective prediction-based wallbreaker, while still being low enough along with our speed to preserve many Pokemon as able to force us out.
We can assume that using the stronger offensive stat is the default, so any deviation from max Atk/Spe will be a sacrifice. The following calcs show how the chosen stat (87) allows investment in SpA to change enough matchups to be potentially worth the sacrifice. It also shows that by itself it's not high enough to allow the default set to blow past any of its checks.
0- SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 322-385 (84.2 - 100.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
44 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 380-452 (99.4 - 118.3%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 280-332 (73.2 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 360-428 (94.2 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
0- SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 248-296 (77.7 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 280-332 (87.7 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
100 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 312-368 (97.8 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 317-374 (78.4 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 411-484 (101.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 244-288 (68.1 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 344-408 (96 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios-Mega: 130-153 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
132 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios-Mega: 148-177 (49.1 - 58.8%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO
4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios-Mega: 100-118 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios-Mega: 142-168 (47.1 - 55.8%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 126-150 (42.1 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
140 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 146-174 (48.8 - 58.1%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
(though Flare Blitz does 2HKO already, having two options that both can be part of a 2HKO is valuable)
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 228-272 (68.8 - 82.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 300-356 (90.6 - 107.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
80 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 328-390 (99 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
4 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Steel/Poison vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 164-195 (41.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Steel/Poison vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 213-252 (54 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pajantom: 138-164 (44.6 - 53%) -- 25.4% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pajantom: 177-211 (57.2 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(again, Earthquake already 2HKOs, so this doesn't change much, just makes one more switch-in marginally harder. Still it is a change in matchup wrt scarf sets.)
89/90 special bulk is chosen to make us at max health survive a single hit from Levitate Strategem and Kerfluffle, which outspeed us and should be pressured by us, as well as to help us take hits from the many special-attacking Pokemon that are on our switch-in list. Only with our Special Defense giving us opportunity to switch in can we afford our slow speed and mediocre attacking stats.
89/75 defenses is chosen to make us better checked by Zygarde, and more easily revenge-killed by physical attackers, even those we might have SE STAB against, such as Crucibelle-Mega. We also are able to be 2HKOd by Pajantom's Spirit Shackle, so that it preserves a slight advantage over us.
(76 Def and 89 SpD would also have worked, but since the offensive stats here were ugly, I semi-arbitrarily picked multiples of five for the defenses)
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 378-446 (118.4 - 139.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
140+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 312-368 (97.8 - 115.3%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 342-404 (107.2 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 319-376 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Latios-Mega Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 271-319 (84.9 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latios-Mega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 187-222 (58.6 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Pajantom Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 169-199 (52.9 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 0 SpA Latias-Mega Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 313-370 (98.1 - 115.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
220+ Atk Arghonaut Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 316-376 (99 - 117.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Arghonaut Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 198-234 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 156-184 (48.9 - 57.6%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO (the one downside of a low Def spread. we can of course always force it out with fire STAB)
252 SpA Life Orb Stratagem Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 265-312 (83 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Kerfluffle Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 255-302 (79.9 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Magearna Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 107-127 (33.5 - 39.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Tapu Koko Twinkle Tackle (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 114-135 (35.7 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 96-114 (30 - 35.7%) -- 32.3% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 87-103 (27.2 - 32.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 54-63 (16.9 - 19.7%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
252 SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 72-84 (22.5 - 26.3%) -- 15.5% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 57-68 (17.8 - 21.3%) -- possible 5HKO
108+ Atk Scizor-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 81-96 (25.3 - 30%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 78-93 (24.4 - 29.1%) -- 99.5% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 54-65 (16.9 - 20.3%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 69-81 (21.6 - 25.3%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leech Seed damage
252 SpA Tapu Koko Twinkle Tackle (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 114-135 (35.7 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+6 252 Atk Cawmodore Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 131-154 (41 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (this is only relevant to the scarf set though)
Lastly, I want to say how I'll choose which spreads to vote for.
First, I won't support any spread that doesn't have a decent chance of losing to Landorus-T, or one with >91 speed.
Second, I prefer spreads with either 83-93 SpA or 69-74 SpA.
Third, most Atk stats are fine. I prefer less Atk in order to give movepool more leeway, but high Atk is also a valid choice to increase the chances of our viability.
Fourth, Special Defense should be relatively high because a lot of our switchins are special attackers, but being approximately 80/80 is okay in order to lose to some important sets.
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I want to give an explanation of my thought process behind choosing this set.
1. I think 25f should be a wallbreaker, by which I mean that it should be difficult to switch in on, having significantly more checks than counters, but easy to force out.
2. The most standard set of 252 Atk/252+ Spe should not be able to 2HKO anything on our threat list with STABs, and should basically not be able to OHKO anything on it with coverage.
3. A set with more SpA investment should be able to threaten more things on our threat list. However, for compensation its power should be enough lower that if you can predict it, you take not very much damage on the switch-in, and can pressure it out.
In other words, a physical set should be difficult to switch in on because of its powerful STAB combination, and a special set should be difficult to switch in on because of the risk of a good prediction.
First, the calculations for desired physical attack. Throughout, I underline the calcs I think most relevant to choosing a stat spread.
The pivotal one here is Landorus-T. It should generally beat us, though being caught by HP Ice on the switch in is okay. Using my terms, it should be more than a soft check but less than a full counter. Without an offense-boosting item, any Atk stat greater than 120 can 2HKO Landorus-T with Flare Blitz through intimidate. This is a hard cap on Atk stats I'm willing to have, because it means that Landorus-T can only switch in once and force it out.
121 Atk: -1 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 135-160 (42.3 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
With Life Orb (or even Choice Band), anything 104 or greater is a guaranteed 2HKO against Scarf Landorus-T. However, the recoil from Life Orb and Flare Blitz stacks, and Choice Band has its own problems, so it's okay to guarantee it there. In neither case do we ever OHKO the scarf set with our physical STABs through intimidate, or 2HKO the defensive set.
120 Atk: -1 252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian: 144-171 (37.6 - 44.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 80 Atk: -1 252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 140-165 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO.
Against Arghonaut, which should counter us, it's bulky enough that its matchup against Life Orb is relevant. Here because of Aqua Jet, 2HKOing only matters because it changes how many times Arghonaut can switch in on us. So we can assume an extra round of leftovers recovery. With this model, 103 Atk is enough we never 2HKO and all the way up to 109 has a very low chance (<10%) of doing so.
103 Atk: 252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 188-224 (46.8 - 55.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after double Leftovers recovery 109 Atk: 6.6% chance to 2HKO after double Leftovers recovery 119 Atk: 61.3% chance to 2HKO after double Leftovers recovery
A few more calcs, showing that a limit of 120 Atk is enough to keep our checks and counters safe from our STAB attacks.
110 Atk: 252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios-Mega: 131-154 (43.5 - 51.1%) -- 5.5% chance to 2HKO 120 Atk: 252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios-Mega: 121-142 (40.1 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 129-153 (29.1 - 34.5%) -- 99.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 163-193 (41.3 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pelipper in Rain: 46-54 (17.6 - 20.6%) -- possible 5HKO 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 113-133 (34.1 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 144-169 (34.7 - 40.8%) -- 60.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 246-289 (35 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 105-125 (34.8 - 41.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 120 Atk: 252+ Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 44 Def Gliscor: 162-192 (46 - 54.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 0 Def Gliscor: 153-181 (43.4 - 51.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
I'm not going to bother going through our switch-in list here, because we can OHKO or 2HKO everything there, and the most challenging to KO, Zapdos, can be beaten easily because it has nothing to fight back with and also dies if you predict a roost.
For those we pressure, I'm just going to mention Pajantom, Strategem, Jumbao, and Tornadus-T.
100 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Pajantom: 181-214 (48.6 - 57.5%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO
At 120 Atk, we have a decent chance of Flare Blitz + Earthquake 2HKOing. 100 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 196-232 (65.5 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 100 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 196-232 (65.5 - 77.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 223-264 (74.5 - 88.2%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Levitate Stratagem: 131-155 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 100 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jumbao: 338-398 (104 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Calcs against some misc metagame threats: 100 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 208-246 (74 - 87.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Lele: 235-277 (83.6 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 100 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fidgit: 254-300 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fidgit: 288-338 (73 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery 117 Atk: 252+ Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cyclohm: 216-254 (51.4 - 60.4%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 100 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cyclohm: 236-282 (66.1 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 100 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega: 270-320 (107.5 - 127.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO 100 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 290-344 (84.5 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Tapu Bulu: 330-390 (96.2 - 113.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO 120 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 262-310 (84.2 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 100 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Greninja: 187-222 (65.6 - 77.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 100 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Colossoil: 213-252 (52.3 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage 106 Atk: 252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volkraken: 342-404 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
It generally seems that having extra attack past the baseline of 100 is about linearly useful, without many major jumps in power.
Since defenses depend on HP, I'll just put 80 HP as placeholder for the purpose of these calcs. If we end up needing more or less power we can add or remove from that.
Luckily, any defense stat 99 or below is always OHKOd by defensive Lando-T. 99 Def: 0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Zygarde is weaker, so it depends on what spread it runs. Here's some pivot points. 67 Def: 0 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Camerupt: 300-354 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO 78 Def: 140+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO 78 Def: 252 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO 79 Def: 252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 146-172 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO 87 Def: 252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 306-360 (101.6 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO 97 Def: +1 0 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 300-354 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Crucibelle-Mega should be able to threaten us, though it obviously can't switch in for fear of earthquake. 80 Def: 252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 304-358 (100.9 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
We would like to be threatened by Gliscor, but unless we're really weak it won't be able to OHKO. 72 Def: 0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Camerupt: 302-356 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
We would like to not be threatened by Ferrothorn, be we need pretty good defense to avoid a 2HKO. 93 Def: 0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 130-154 (43.1 - 51.1%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
Fortunately, Mega-Scizor does little damage even with low defense. 70 Def: 108+ Atk Scizor-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 85-101 (28.2 - 33.5%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO 78 Def: 252+ Atk Scizor-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 86-102 (28.5 - 33.8%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO
Mega-Aerodactyl, which is on our counter list, 2HKOs us easily, but doesn't OHKO unless it has Earthquake. This is mostly independent of stats. 71 Def: 252 Atk Aerodactyl-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 298-352 (99 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO 60 Def: 252 Atk Aerodactyl-Mega Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 255-300 (84.7 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 99 Def: 252 Atk Aerodactyl-Mega Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 169-199 (56.1 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 88 Def: 252 Atk Tough Claws Aerodactyl-Mega Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 147-174 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
Pajantom is another relevant pokemon. For its choice band sets our stats don't matter. 60 Def: 252 Atk Choice Band Pajantom Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 301-355 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO 99 Def: 252 Atk Choice Band Pajantom Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 301-355 (100 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
For its Choice Scarf sets they do. 87 Def: 252 Atk Pajantom Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 150-177 (49.8 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO 61 Def: 252 Atk Pajantom Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 297-351 (98.6 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
For its SpD sets they do as well. 71 Def: 0 Atk Pajantom Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 147-174 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO
Latios-Mega doesn't OHKO us with Earthquake unless we're really weak. 61 Def: 4 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Camerupt: 300-354 (99.6 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
It would be good to survive at least one +2 Mega-Mawile Sucker Punch, but... 100 Def: +2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 288-339 (95.6 - 112.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Against +0, with our current HP, we can survive a single sucker punch + flare blitz recoil. 74 Def: 252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 185-218 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Our matchup with Kartana does change based on our defense: 70 Def: 252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 255-300 (84.7 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is very confusing to look at - significantly more changes in matchups are available to us than for Atk, so it will have to wait.
On to special defense. Again using 80 as the default HP. The maximum special bulk allowed is around 80/96, so I'll cap it there.
First the things we should switch in on.
56 SpD: 252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 126-149 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 75 SpD: 252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 100-118 (33.2 - 39.2%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO 56 SpD: 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 78-92 (25.9 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 74 SpD: 252 SpA Magearna Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 126-149 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 74 SpD: 252+ SpA Mollux Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 127-150 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 96 SpD: 252+ SpA Mollux Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 150-178 (49.8 - 59.1%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO 56 SpD: 252 SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 105-123 (34.8 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Then Pokemon on our pressure list.
73 SpD: 252 SpA Life Orb Kerfluffle Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 304-359 (100.9 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO 93 SpD: 252 SpA Life Orb Kerfluffle Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 253-300 (84 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 95 SpD: 252 SpA Life Orb Stratagem Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 252-299 (83.7 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 70 SpD: 252 SpA Jumbao Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 255-300 (84.7 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Then other miscellaneous Pokemon. 96 SpD: +1 252 SpA Life Orb Aurumoth Psychic vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 274-325 (90.7 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO 65 SpD: 252 SpA Life Orb Aurumoth Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 253-298 (84 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 74 SpD: 252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 252-298 (83.7 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 74 SpD: 252+ SpA Choice Specs Analytic Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 253-298 (84 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 76 SpD: 252+ SpA Choice Scarf Volkraken Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 127-150 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Importantly, it's good to lose to Latios-Mega. Luckily even with maximum bulk we're 2HKOd. 96 SpD: 252 SpA Latios-Mega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 178-210 (59.1 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 80 SpD: 252 SpA Latios-Mega Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 298-352 (99 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Here it looks like it's best to have either be a bit less than 80/80 special bulk, or be all the way up against the limit.
Speed is a little bit simpler, but also its calcs are more work. 90 is outsped by Lando-T, 86 is outsped by Adamant Pajantom, 80 is outsped by Gyarados. Besides these, having higher speed doesn't help against our checks+counters. We also don't really need speed against our switch-ins. What our speed will be depends on our attacking stats.
Lastly, and most scarily, SpA. I have been rooting for a mixed spread merely biased towards Physical Attack rather than purely physical + hidden power. This means that we need a SpA stat that is significantly better when invested in than it is with 0- investment. We also need it to not be so good as to beat too many of our checks.
Side note: when I do calcs with 103 SpA, it's not because I'm considering it, but the point is "even with a ridiculous stat, we're not OHKOing/2HKOing". Similarly, I don't plan to go anywhere near as low as 56, but the point is "even with a horrible stat, we still 2HKO".
Most importantly, Latios-Mega must be a safe switch-in (i.e. less than a 2HKO), absent 252+.
103 SpA: 4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Latios-Mega: 128-152 (42.5 - 50.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO 85 SpA: 252 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios-Mega: 126-150 (41.8 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 77 SpA: 4 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Latios-Mega: 133-156 (44.1 - 51.8%) -- 10.2% chance to 2HKO 87 SpA: 4 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios-Mega: 130-153 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO
It would be nice for significant investment to be required to use the check-breaking potential of Hidden Power. That way we open up additional counterplay by weakening ourselves elsewhere. Unfortunately, many of the bounds don't lie within range. (the Lando-T ones are the most useful) 56 SpA: 4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 228 SpD Pelipper: 168-200 (52 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 103 SpA: 4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 228 SpD Pelipper: 272-320 (84.2 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 66 SpA: 0- SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pelipper: 224-264 (85.8 - 101.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO 60 SpA: 4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 180-216 (44.5 - 53.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 103SpA: 0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 276-328 (77.3 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 91 SpA: 252+ SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 356-420 (99.7 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery 70 SpA: 0- SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 180-216 (44.5 - 53.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 103 SpA: 0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 268-316 (80.9 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 56 SpA: 0- SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 148-176 (44.7 - 53.1%) -- 26.2% chance to 2HKO 103 SpA: 4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 320-380 (83.7 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 56 SpA: 4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 200-236 (52.3 - 61.7%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 83 SpA: 4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 268-316 (84 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO 93 SpA: 0- SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 268-316 (84 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Some of our counters are listed as special only, and some should counter both. Those should not be 2HKOd by any special moves we have. Most of these are easy to fit. 103 SpA: 252+ SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Pajantom: 124-146 (33.3 - 39.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 103 SpA: 4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pajantom: 124-146 (40.1 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 73 SpA: 252+ SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pajantom: 136-160 (44 - 51.7%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO 84 SpA: 252 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pajantom: 136-160 (44 - 51.7%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO 103 SpA: 252+ SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 300-356 (70.5 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery 87 SpA: 0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 188-224 (44.2 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 103 SpA: 252+ SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 80 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 138-164 (35 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO 103 SpA: 4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 200 HP / 88 SpD Arghonaut: 124-146 (30.9 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery 103 SpA: 4 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Arghonaut: 134-158 (32.3 - 38.1%) -- 1.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
In conclusion, the special attack stats I think are most reasonable are 93, 87, 83, 76, 72, and 69.
After writing all the above, I have two possible spreads. Final spread is above.
First, the bulkier option. This means we can afford a weaker offense, so I'd choose 109 attack to slide under chances of 2HKOing Arghonaut and Latios-Mega. Then to compensate and to promote mixed spreads, I chose the higher special attack, and then to compensate for that, I chose the lower speed.
Now the faster and more physical one. 83 SpA is here because it ducks under multiple important thresholds. 90 Speed is outsped by Lando-T, which is all we need. We have a whole lot of power, but the combination of our low hp and our weaker matchup against potential revenge killers balances out the power of Flare Blitz + Earthquake (or stronger!) coverage.
I'll do calcs for these spreads specifically tomorrow, but you can look in the above hide for the relevant rungs we're above and below. If you have thoughts on either spread or which I should submit, I'd appreciate feedback.
Edit: I've been convinced 120 doesn't need to be a hard cap. Up to 125, there's still less than a 5% chance of 2HKOing scarf landorus-therian. With that in mind, I'm boosting the second set's power.
HP: Decently high HP stat. I didn't want to give it enough HP to have a substitute unbreakable by Seismic Toss. Combined with the defenses the mon gets as special and physically tanky as possible within our restrictions (I'll break stuff down with more calcs in each specific section). The main reason I didn't want a unbreakable sub is I don't want something like Chansey to be set up bait as I feel that gives our mon to good of a match up vs fat even if the only boosting option we get is work up. I do enjoy us pushing the max with this set's tankiness as the speed stat is relatively mediocre in the meta initially.
Attack: I decided on 112 since it breaks the 110 barrier (while helping us just grab 525 BST), which is a min main attacking stat trend I see in the meta. Not going to show a ton of calcs here since I don't want to assume any of our main stab attacks, even if some are fairly obvious. However, I do have a pair of lists for you all reading this. Little disclaimer that I only included mons generally considered offensive, so stuff like arghonaut will not be on either list:
Cawmodore 92 Atk, Pretty much always uses Belly Drum to supplement this.
Kitsunoh 103 Atk, uses strong ghost stab to help reconcile this, but is a widely underutilized mon.
Krilowat 83 Spa, massive HP stat and great ability, but with speed and coverage makes up for it and def breaks the trend.
Rev 105 Atk, Uses priority to help supplement, but is not amazing in the meta
Voodoom 105 Spa, What can I say it's Voodoom.
Gliscor 95 Atk, uses SD plus the longevity of Pheal to address this, but still is a decent trend breaker.
Greninja 103 Spa, Uses Protean to gain a stab boost on every attack.
Hawlucha 92 Atk, requires a lot of set up to become a threat.
M-Mawile and M-Medicham have huge/pure power to aid them.
Mimikyu 90 Atk, has Disguise to help its cause.
Serperior 75 Spa, IT HAS CONTRARY.
Tapu Koko 95 Spa, Has Eterrain for double stab.
Zygarde 100 Atk, incredible bulk and set up options, plus most spammable move in the game.
Mythicals.
The point of this list was to show that a majority of the mons in the meta that are effective offensive threats either break 110 in their favored attack stat, or they have some other huge advantage going for them - mainly their ability. Also highlighting that most "offensive" caps that drip below 110 in their favored stat don't do to well in practice. Obviously there are exceptions, but I feel 110 is just a good line to base ourselves off when it comes to our attack stat.
Defense: All my calcs will utilize 90 HP and 81 Def, with the base being a non-invested Hardy Camerupt. I plan to throw up a ton of calcs fitted into 2 categories. Firstly calcs that reflect negatively on us, an example is us getting ohko'd by something. The second category is 25F avoiding a ohko or 2hko. Also all calcs will use Stealth Rock, just a preference when I calc. The goal of this spread was just to make a decently bulky mon, since it's not that fast, so simply not being ohko'd by non Z neutral hits regularly was the real aim of the set.
252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 300-354 (93.4 - 110.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 356-420 (110.9 - 130.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Pajantom Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 261-307 (81.3 - 95.6%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Charizard-Mega-X Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 260-308 (80.9 - 95.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 439-517 (136.7 - 161%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 337-397 (104.9 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 475-561 (147.9 - 174.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Pinsir-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 296-350 (92.2 - 109%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
60+ Atk Tapu Bulu Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt in Grassy Terrain: 336-396 (104.6 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 328-387 (102.1 - 120.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 760-900 (236.7 - 280.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 320-380 (99.6 - 118.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Kitsunoh Shadow Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 133-157 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 314-372 (97.8 - 115.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Hoopa-Unbound Hyperspace Fury vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 340-402 (105.9 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Pajantom Spirit Shackle vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 132-156 (41.1 - 48.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Colossoil Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 408-482 (127.1 - 150.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 262-309 (81.6 - 96.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 421-496 (131.1 - 154.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The only good thing about this section is that rocks need to be up. Meaning if you can keep rocks up, and the mon at full it should find a way to eat 1 vs something like a strong neutral hit, which is really nice for our mon.
252+ Atk Tapu Bulu Horn Leech vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt in Grassy Terrain: 241-285 (75 - 88.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Grassy Terrain recovery
+2 64+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 126-149 (39.2 - 46.4%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Kartana Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 226-267 (70.4 - 83.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 64-76 (19.9 - 23.6%) -- 43% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 246-290 (76.6 - 90.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 219-258 (68.2 - 80.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 238-281 (74.1 - 87.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 234-276 (72.8 - 85.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Clefable Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 56-67 (17.4 - 20.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
This section isn't quite as long, but it shows that if we resist an attack, or it's weaker coverage we can eat a hit or two. Also that we've got enough bulk that something like Clef clicks Knock Off on us we're not losing a ton. (also this is all uninvested which is nice)
Special Attack: Going to just be calcing our 72 Spa when it comes to Technician boosted Hidden Power. I feel a lot of people think Tech boosted HP will break this mon, but hopefully this post can help ease that fear. Especially when you factor in Hp Fire and Hp Ground will be unviable thanks to our typing. Basically creating the goal of a usable SpA stat, that isn't to strong to simply break Hidden Power coverage on a predominantly physical set. The calcs will show 72 SpA beating 4x weak mons, while not simply overpowering 2x weak mons with our coverage - a great balance.
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 208-248 (58.1 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 240-284 (75.2 - 89%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Gastrodon: 164-196 (38.5 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Latios-Mega: 94-112 (31.2 - 37.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias-Mega: 70-84 (19.2 - 23%) -- 7.2% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Flying vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tomohawk: 120-142 (28.9 - 34.2%) -- 3.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Tornadus-Therian: 108-128 (36.1 - 42.8%) -- 86.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 200 HP / 88 SpD Arghonaut: 90-108 (22.4 - 26.9%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pajantom: 90-108 (29.1 - 34.9%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 200+ SpD Gliscor: 180-216 (51.1 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 200-236 (60.4 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 228 SpD Pelipper: 204-240 (63.1 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 94-112 (31 - 36.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 220 SpD Assault Vest Colossoil: 68-80 (16.7 - 19.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
Hopefully it is clear now that while still a strong usable option, access to Technician Hidden Power is far from broken. The Special attack on this set could probably be creeped up a bit, would love to hear opinions on that, but just want to make it clear that with a Special Attack stat of 72 even with Tech Hidden Power the mon is no where near broken beating all its checks.
Special Defense: Going to be done extremely similar to Physical Defense so read up there for more of an explanation. Once again with our fairly average speed the set maximizes our allowed special tankiness making only SE moves and strong neutral Z moves true ohko threats.
252 SpA Life Orb Krilowatt Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 645-764 (200.9 - 238%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Volkraken Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 688-816 (214.3 - 254.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Gastrodon Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 372-436 (115.8 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Water Shuriken (15 BP) (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 288-344 (89.7 - 107.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latios-Mega Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 280-331 (87.2 - 103.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 564-664 (175.7 - 206.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 200 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 316-373 (98.4 - 116.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt in Psychic Terrain: 375-442 (116.8 - 137.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Shattered Psyche (175 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 333-392 (103.7 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
We're pretty much only fearing the ohko from strong stabs or really any 4x water move, which for an offensive mon is really nice. Means we can pressure by coming out through pivoting/revenge killing, while also eating 1 hit to get off a big hit if needed.
252 SpA Jumbao Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 216-255 (67.2 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Toxapex Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 232-280 (72.2 - 87.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 55-66 (17.1 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 189-223 (58.8 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 249-294 (77.5 - 91.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt in Sun: 178-210 (55.4 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Latios-Mega Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 195-231 (60.7 - 71.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 100-118 (31.1 - 36.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt in Psychic Terrain: 252-297 (78.5 - 92.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 224-264 (69.7 - 82.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 61-72 (19 - 22.4%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock
Any strong attacker is going to 2hko us with something neutral, but at the very least their not ohkos. Also can turn some resisted hits like Fleur Cannon from AV Magearna into a switch in opportunity which is really nice. Overall we definitely aren't super bulky, but our ability to live 1 hit from a lot of stuff is really nice. (also this is all uninvested which is nice)
Speed: Pretty simple speed. One of the main mons I want to outpace is Heatran, which we do. Another key mon we outpace is Adamant Zygarde, which I feel is really nice for our mon. Also as far as +1 scarf speed tiers we will outpace through M-Aero and M-Zam beating the unboosted meta game which is extremely nice for a scarfer to do. Outpaces Gyarados and below when it comes to relevant speed tiers in the meta. Possibly changing it to 86 speed is a discussion to have since you would then beat offensive Tomohawk. I don't see it as a necessity as max speed isn't super common but it's a change I'm open to if others feel necessary since no other major speed tiers are hit aside max speed fini and tying max speed Rotom-W.
First set submission in CAP, and I'm very happy with it. Would love to hear thoughts. Also it is near the bottom of our BST range, so there is some flexibility when it comes to speed/offenses.
78 Speed
Faster than Heatran, beaten out by 252 Speed Adamant Landorus. I've noted some speeds have been either justified by outpacing Checks + Counters (Gyarados, Landorus-T in particular), or in outpacing targets which I don't feel provide a major threat (Plasmanta). Given the baseline assumptions about how 25f will be played, especially in light of how Speed Control moves are often empowered by Technician, I really don't want to be outspeeding some of our checks ^^;. Being outpaced by Gyarados in particular is useful in maintaining a very solid response to us, and something that can actually switch in against our STABs.
126 Atk
Maximised, with absolutely no apology given for doing so. I've not found any substantial problem in ensuring we have a substantial number of offensive checks and counters, and I believe it'd be a folly to not maximise on that front. No particularly notable calcs lurking about here mind - this number bases a lot more on inflicting general wear and tear to an opponent.
94 HP
Life Orb number, lets us use Flare Blitz against most things without worrying, but not excessively.
Max Bulk
Kind of simple really: I think we're going to be switching in a lot, and we don't really have access to a good healing option, so I've opted to maximise here so we can switch in more times and smash more faces.
25f Item Choices, Investments
I've been sitting here for a decent while wondering what item choices 25f will make. Life Orb, especially if combined with Recoil Moves, wears down 25f quickly, which is difficult when 25f will likely be reliant on switching in against it's resistances. Meanwhile, Choice Band helps break stuff, but loses access to some options of Technician - and with move locking, leaves 25f easier to force out, especially on it's low speed. I don't think we're quite fast enough to justify Scarf, although Heatran sometimes does so anyway.
Ultimately, I'll be doing calcs with both Orb and Band where I feel they're appropriate, so make yer own judgment calls. In some cases I'll also add on Itemless, for Z-Crystal sets.
In addition, I'll be doing calcs 99% of the time as Jolly 252 Atk / 252 Spe. In cases where the inevitable Hidden Power is raised, I'll assume the better +Spe -Def/SpD for the matchup, whilst on hyper-marginal calcs I'll add in the 4 EVs to Def/SpD.
Tapu Koko
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 89-105 (27 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 89-105 (27 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 368-434 (130.9 - 154.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 286-337 (101.7 - 119.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Trivia: HP Ice technically does more damage in this situation (... on just one of the 16 damage rolls, it does +1 damage)
Clefable
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 54-65 (16.4 - 19.7%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 220-259 (55.8 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 183-216 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 169-199 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 253-298 (64.2 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Clef is ridiculously easy to switch into. I'd wager that either Taunt, or coverage (Gear Grind from Band is a OHKO) would be needed to make it something we truly break through though.
Zapdos
0 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 46-55 (13.9 - 16.7%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 156-184 (40.7 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 258-306 (67.3 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Zapdos: 335-398 (87.4 - 103.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
If you can predict the Roost you can punish it pretty badly. If not, then you rely on the fact that it can't do nowt to you either.
Magnezone
252+ SpA Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 81-96 (24.6 - 29.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 568-672 (202.1 - 239.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 338-402 (120.2 - 143%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Magnezone: 212-252 (75.4 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It's Magnezone.
Magearna
8 SpA Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 99-117 (30 - 35.5%) -- 27.4% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 342-404 (94.2 - 111.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 369-437 (101.6 - 120.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
OHKOd with minimal need for recoil.
Mega Scizor
0 Atk Scizor-Mega U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 65-77 (19.7 - 23.4%) -- possible 5HKO
64+ Atk Scizor-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 139-164 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
64+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 64-76 (19.4 - 23.1%) -- possible 5HKO
+2 64+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 129-152 (39.2 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor-Mega: 359-426 (104.6 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Mega Scizor can't even afford to U-Turn against us, since it becomes bait for Flame Charge. Meaanwhile we can tank two of it's +2 Bullet Punches.
Jirachi
0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Camerupt: 59-69 (17.9 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Jirachi U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Camerupt: 34-40 (10.3 - 12.1%) -- possible 9HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 416-491 (103.2 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 499-588 (123.8 - 145.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
25f switches in, Jirachi ain't sticking around.
Plasmanta
252 SpA Life Orb Plasmanta Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 114-135 (34.6 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Plasmanta: 717-847 (273.6 - 323.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Easy forced switch is easy.
Skarmory
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 179-213 (53.7 - 63.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 283-338 (84.9 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Skar isn't exactly an offensive threat - so you have the usual case of aiming to 2HKO it whilst it Whirlwinds you about. A weird mon to try to switch into I guess?
Amoonguss
0 SpA Amoonguss Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 79-94 (24 - 28.5%) -- 97.8% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 398-468 (92.3 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Wheel vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Amoonguss: 471-556 (109.2 - 129%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Welcome to the first calc to include Flame Wheel, our strongest drawback free fire move! Either way, Amoonguss gets OHKOd or 2HKOd with a free speed boost.
Ferrothorn
0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 150-177 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 484-567 (137.5 - 161%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The biggest concern with Ferrothorn is not discovering just how much passive damage it can store. The good news is that Ferro generally doesn't go right into a surprisingly strong Power Whip, and once you're in you are forcing out.
Celesteela
0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 66-78 (20 - 23.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 104+ Def Celesteela: 400-476 (100.7 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That's a nice happy calc smashing a Celesteela, who in return does not smash us =)
Mollux
0 SpA Mollux Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 69-81 (20.9 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
0 SpA Mollux Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 61-72 (18.5 - 21.8%) -- possible 5HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Mollux: 967-1144 (245.4 - 290.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I'm pretty sure that Sand Tomb scores an OHKO here.
Mega Sableye
0 Atk Sableye-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 111-132 (33.7 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Sableye-Mega Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 75-88 (22.7 - 26.7%) -- 29.2% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Sableye-Mega: 172-203 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Sableye-Mega: 204-242 (67.3 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Sableye-Mega: 157-186 (51.8 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Camerupt Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Sableye-Mega: 132-156 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 6.3% chance to 2HKO
Losing LO sucks, but we can continue to provide a threat that forces M-Sab to spam Recover.
Mega Crucibelle
252 Atk Crucibelle-Mega Head Smash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 306-361 (93 - 109.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crucibelle-Mega: 1061-1248 (299.7 - 352.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
You can invest to deal with the former if needed. Either way, neither switches into t'other.
VolkrakenChoice Scarf
252 SpA Volkraken Surf vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 676-804 (205.4 - 244.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Volkraken: 502-593 (146.7 - 173.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Get your two Flame Charges in before the switch and you'll be in a good position here.
Tornadus-TZ Hurricane
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike (185 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 303-357 (92 - 108.5%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 180-213 (54.7 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-Therian: 300-355 (100.3 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Neither of us can switch in, though I'd rather be the 25f on a double switch.
Syclant
252 SpA Life Orb Syclant Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 263-309 (79.9 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Syclant: 1487-1752 (529.1 - 623.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
:eyes:
Greninja
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Water Shuriken (15 BP) (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 288-344 (87.5 - 104.5%) -- approx. 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Water Shuriken (15 BP) (2 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 260-312 (79 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 894-1061 (271.7 - 322.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 289-341 (101.4 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Gren murders us, we murder Gren, each time I say that I get points on my loyalty card :P
KerfluffleAll-Out Pummeling
252 SpA Life Orb Kerfluffle Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 263-309 (79.9 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kerfluffle: 285-335 (92.2 - 108.4%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kerfluffle: 177-211 (57.2 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pressure each other with a 2HKO. Kerf absolutely can't afford to switch in against Flame Charge.
Stratagem
252 SpA Life Orb Stratagem Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 273-322 (82.9 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Stratagem: 177-209 (55.1 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Stratagem: 110-131 (34.2 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
We do need coverage to threaten Levitate Stratagem for a reliable KO set, since Flare Blitz --> Flare Blitz isn't feasible due to recoil.
JumbaoScarf
252 SpA Jumbao Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 231-273 (70.2 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-2 252 SpA Jumbao Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 115-136 (34.9 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Technician Jumbao Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 214-252 (65 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Jumbao Hidden Power Ground vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 144-170 (43.7 - 51.6%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Jumbao Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 84-99 (25.5 - 30%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jumbao in Sun: 484-572 (148.9 - 176%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jumbao: 322-382 (99 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
Jumbao really can't switch in, whilst 25g can only switch in against certain moves, namely Moonblast.
Gliscor
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 252-296 (76.5 - 89.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 44 Def Gliscor: 199-235 (56.5 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
Outsped and turned into Roost practice. EQ + Flare Blitz Recoil + LO Recoil always KOs 25f.
TomohawkOffensive
252+ SpA Life Orb Tomohawk Hurricane vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 265-312 (80.5 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tomohawk: 273-321 (77.7 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tomohawk: 169-200 (48.1 - 56.9%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO
We get to enjoy 2HKOing each other, with Flare Blitz easily whittling Tomo down past Roost.
Landorus-Therian
0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 362-428 (110 - 130%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 236-280 (61.7 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 307-364 (80.3 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 307-364 (96.2 - 114.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
-1 252 Atk Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-Therian: 100-118 (26.1 - 30.8%) -- 8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Lando OHKOs us with EQ. Defensive p.much has to revenge kill, given HP Ice 2HKOs it, ditto Scarf. Which is honestly perfectly in line with how you'd expect 25f to play - switch in on a resist, grab a KO, switch out as you're forced.
Zygarde
140+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 300-354 (91.1 - 107.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Camerupt Bulldoze vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 184-217 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Camerupt Bonemerang (2 hits) vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 306-362 (75.7 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Earthquake vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 204-240 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- 80.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 122-144 (30.1 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 265-317 (65.5 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 177-211 (43.8 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Bulldoze vs. 188 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 160-188 (39.6 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 188 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 359-426 (88.8 - 105.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
Zygarde's matchup is actually pretty simple: Abuse the fact that the odds that 25f hasn't taken chip damage are zero, then OHKO with Thousand Arrows. Or, if you're confident you know what the set is, sneak in a Dragon Dance first. Included a mix of calcs for y'all to look at here, including a full SpA calc (196 and below on SpA don't ever OHKO).
Mega Latias
0 SpA Latias-Mega Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 97-115 (29.4 - 34.9%) -- 12.6% chance to 3HKO
+2 0 SpA Latias-Mega Stored Power (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 322-381 (97.8 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Latias-Mega: 123-144 (33.7 - 39.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias-Mega: 91-109 (25 - 29.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
We get the honour of being bait for Recover and Life Orb/Flare Blitz Recoil, whilst Latias sets up on us!
Mega Latios
252 SpA Latios-Mega Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 279-328 (84.8 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Latios-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 220-260 (66.8 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Latios-Mega: 122-146 (40.5 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios-Mega: 144-169 (47.8 - 56.1%) -- 83.2% chance to 2HKO
Roost Bait, or Death By Recoil. Your preference!
Gyarados
252 Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 616-732 (187.2 - 222.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 174-206 (52.5 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gyarados: 255-302 (77 - 91.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 152-179 (45.9 - 54%) -- 49.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Technician Camerupt Flame Charge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gyarados: 94-112 (28.3 - 33.8%) -- 0.3% chance to 3HKO
Either we're being really silly wrt Hidden Power, or we're being outsped and forced out. Gyarados is a good example of a 'mon that can counter us even if we have Speed Control options.
Pelipper
0 SpA Pelipper Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Camerupt in Rain: 624-736 (189.6 - 223.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 248 HP / 228 SpD Pelipper: 260-307 (80.4 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 32+ Def Pelipper in Rain: 55-65 (17 - 20.1%) -- possible 5HKO
Defensive Peli walls us, and offensive Peli does the same as long we don't use HP Electric.
TomohawkDefensive
0 SpA Tomohawk Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Camerupt: 114-135 (34.6 - 41%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 192-227 (46.3 - 54.8%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tomohawk: 153-182 (36.9 - 43.9%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tomohawk: 222-262 (53.6 - 63.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (22.2 - 26.2% recoil damage)
Recoil is high enough that Tomo forces us out with Roost.
Pyroak
0 SpA Pyroak Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 87-103 (26.4 - 31.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 201-237 (45.3 - 53.4%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pyroak: 168-198 (37.9 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
See Tomohawk, but replace Roost with Synthesis, and add in a crit immunity.
Arghonaut
4 Atk Arghonaut Circle Throw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 85-102 (25.8 - 31%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 Atk Arghonaut Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 192-226 (58.3 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 250-295 (60.3 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 150-177 (36.2 - 42.7%) -- 96.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arghonaut: 218-257 (52.6 - 62%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Argh can stall out LO pretty consistently, though Choice Band EQ will eventually break it. Can withstand Flare Blitz though.
PajantomOffensive
252 Atk Choice Band Pajantom Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 404-476 (122.7 - 144.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Pajantom Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 364-429 (110.6 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Pajantom Devastating Drake (190 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 384-453 (116.7 - 137.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pajantom: 318-375 (102.9 - 121.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pajantom: 190-224 (61.4 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Offensive Pajantom outspeeds and OHKOs. Doesn't like switching in against 25f's EQ though.
Mega Aerodactyl
252 Atk Aerodactyl-Mega Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 204-241 (62 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Aerodactyl-Mega Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 160-189 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Aerodactyl-Mega: 164-193 (54.4 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It outspeeds us even if we're at +1, and then it promptly 2HKOs us.
Mega Swampert
252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt in Rain: 1164-1372 (353.7 - 417%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 486-572 (147.7 - 173.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Swampert-Mega: 220-259 (64.5 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Life Orb Technician Camerupt Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Swampert-Mega: 234-281 (68.6 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Swampy always OHKOs us, we never OHKO it (again, unless we're looking at HP Grass off of 252+ SpA).
Chansey
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 331-390 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 77.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Camerupt Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 274-325 (39 - 46.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Flare Blitz vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 381-448 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Camerupt Earthquake vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 318-375 (45.2 - 53.4%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO
Blitz is a fool's errand for recoil. Banded EQ is technically capable of breaking, but with a need for about 15 max roll EQs to KO (not happening)
Changes to C+C
Argh is lost as a Check (unless it starts running the Aqua Jet set in the calc ¬¬), which isn't a surprise (Special Bulk vs Physical Wall). That said, if it is able to hit us, it can do a ton with Scald, so it can Check us if we're weakened.
In exchange, Gliscor becomes a slightly more reliable response once it's got Poison Heal up and running. It is somewhat reliant on having access to Poison Heal already on tap though.
First off, before I get into some commentary, I just want to point out to Reviloja753 that your PT would be above the limit. Obviously that post is a huge work in progres still, but just an wanted to give a heads up.
Anyways, I we have a lot of potential submissions here for our Fire type, and some huge variance between them. From fast and powerfull glass cannons to slower and sturdier spreads that look more like wall breakers. We have some potentially strong mixed sets and ones that have comparitively dumped SpA. Suffice it to say that we have the opportunity here for a fairly diverse slate.
Before we get there though, there are a few comments I would like to make. First off, for as much discussion and disagreement as I have seen on the offensive side of things, it surprised me to see that it was actually, by some measures, the Physical Tankiness that varies the most among these spreads. While a number of spreads are riding the limit here, and most are in the Above Average range, a few dip down into the Below Average Range, with one actually going all the way down into the Poor. While this was our lowest limit, and, as such, I'm sure for a lot of people it was not the stat they put the most reasoning into, I am interested to see, especially for those who are riding the limit or particularly low, what thought went into the selection of the stat.
Perhaps the most controversial part of this Pokemon, from what I have seen, is its special offensive power. While we do not have any spreads with massive SpA, the difference between 70 and 90 is quite significant, so for every submission, I want to make sure that reasoning is provided regarding the special power. In the stat spread discussion the majority of people clearly wanted a mixed attacker, so for those of you with higher SpA I'd like to see what exactly it is intended to do, while for those of you with lower SpA I'd like to see reasoning as far as how it is still usable, or why it should not be. I know there has been a ton of talk on discord about this, but I want to see the reasoning actually in the submissions, and not just taken for granted.
Another important aspect of our stats is speed, which will play an absolutely crucial role on this Pokemon. I don't have a lot of commentary on this one as many of you already have some detailed reasoning regarding why you chose the speeds that you chose. I just want to say that, for those that have not said a lot on it, look to some of the other posters in the thread, like Deck Knight or Gross Sweep, among others, who have some good detail as to why they picked what they did.
---
Finally, I just want to make a general statment about reasoning and calculations. As reachzero said above, it is important that you are showing how your Pokemon fits into the metagame. A submission should be taking a stance on how we should try and fit in, and then should demonstrate how the specific stats help make this the case.
Calcs exist as the evidence to back up your arguments. You absolutely should be showing calculations, and (without getting to ridiculous) more is usually better than less. But that being said, they are ultimately just evidence, not an argument in and of themselves. So, when it comes to making a slate I will be looking for submissions that take a strong position on what our Pokemon should be doing, AND show calcs to illustrate how we will achieve that goal, not simply one or the other.
Keep these above things in mind while finishing up your submissions. You will have 48 more hours or so before this thread is closed and the slate is made. So get to it. And be sure to mark your post as a final submission when you are done.
With the limitations that have been put on the stats stage of this project, my biggest concern, when making a slate, was that submissions really presented a picture of how our Pokemon is going to fit into the metagame, and interact with the Pokemon on our threats list. Beyond that, I am interested in making a slate of options that is diverse, to better allow the community a choice in the direction we want this Pokemon to go. So, with that in mind, here is the slate for CAP 25f:
Deck Knight (88/116/67/88/78/97) - One of the more offensively oriented spreads, these stats sport good power, including the highest special attack stat of any submission, and a speed tier that, while not lightning fast, is above most other submissions. It takes a strong stance on our interaction with scarf Pokemon, taking the position that we need to be able to use our speed, in conjunction with speed control, to be able to take on such Pokemon if we are to stand out.
Jho (84/115/81/70/93/85) - One of a group of fairly similar spreads that prioritized high bulk and lower special attack. This spread makes a good case for its speed tier revolving around its interaction with Zygarde depending on the nature selection, and is designed to pack enough punch to deal with what we want to threaten, while trying to avoid having excess power.
gibygiby (59/118/57/86/114/101) - This spread takes the position of pushing our offensive orientation to the limit, being fast, powerful, and one of the higher special attack stats of the bunch. It is very unique on this slate, both due to its higher speed and the incredible physical frailty it has to make up for it.
faithviolet (89/109/75/87/90/80) - A relatively conservative spread, these stats stand out by being very balanced across all aspects. It has the lowest offensive power of all the spreads, is not the bulkiest either, and it does not sit at a particularly high speed. However, it makes a good argument for itself with regard to how it can execute the concept by allowing the use of Technician without as much worry about becoming too strong, possibly opening up more options in the movepool stage.
Dogfish44 (94/126/79/71/87/78) - Another from the group of spreads that focused heavily on high bulk and low special attack, this spread differentiates itself by dropping lower in speed while simultaneously wielding the most power of any spread. It makes a strong case for being a major damaging threat that can wear down a team, but whose speed helps keep it in check.
I am uncomfortable with gibygiby's submission in several ways--aside from having serious issues with things like hitting Chansey with Flare Blitz, it strains the nature of starter plausibility, drawing more comparisons to Kartana than to any extant starter. I will use my -1 on gibygiby's submission, but otherwise the slate is approved, and ready to go to the polls!
