CAP 27 - Part 2 - Typing Discussion

[Mx]

Alright, as promised, here's my opinion about some of the most talked typings:

Fire/Flying: This is my favorite combination at the moment. Flying-type offers useful resistances to Ground- and Fighting-type, the most common attacking types in the meta, which complements Fire very nicely, giving us a lot more opportunities to pivot in. It's also offers incredible offensive coverage without being too overwhelming, with Rotom-Heat and Stratagem alongside the more uncommon Tyranitar, Cyclohm, Krilowatt, and Dracozolt resisting the combination. As snake pointed, Heavy-Duty Boots is really a blessing for this typing, as it can completely negate its double weakness to Stealth Rock and additionally dissuades sets like Choice Scarf/Specs/Band, which might go against the concept. Now, Knock Off is undoubtedly a big weakness of this combination, as it would force us to take Stealth Rock damage, but I don't think this is too big of an issue, as we can plan around it by not focusing on trying to check threats with Knock Off like Clefable, Mandibuzz, or Colossoil, as Fire/Flying offers more that enough even with that additional restriction.

Fire/Dragon: This is the best way to take advantage of a primary Fire-type offensively, as it is resisted only by the very uncommon Primarina. Defensively, it's decent but nothing particularly impressive over other Fire-based typings, as losing its Ice- and Fairy-type resistances for an Electric-type resistance and neutrality to Water-type is kinda meh outside of the Zeraora matchup. I feel like this combination veers towards offence just a bit much for our own good, but its still one of the best options available, as the fact that it doesn't need any rea

Fire/Electric: This is another great offensive typing, as Rotom-Heat currently demonstrates and has great options that would allow us to spread burn and paralysis only using STAB moves. However, while resistances to Flying-, Ice- and Electric-type are great, it's still rater suspicious on the defensive side, as a x4 Ground-type weakness will make us offensively easy to check. I think its positives outweighs its negatives and could prove to be a very useful typing for CAP 27, so I'd also like to see more discussion on it and other possible combinations for Electric, which I think is very underexplored in the current discussion.

Fire/Dark: Given that Ghost is one of the most spammed types in the metagame, having one of the few types that resist it is obviously something we should look at, and once again, Fire compliments it very nicely by removing its Fairy-type weakness and adding valued resistances. in terms of raw offense and defense, this typing might not seems that good, as it doesn't offer as many resistances as Fire/Flying and is not as lethal as Fire/Dragon, but its unique qualities still makes it one of the most attractive options. I think that access to STAB Knock Off is a bit overrated, as almost any other typing could make use of that move with the right tools, but it's still another point in its favor.

Fire/Ghost: Ghost is always a solid option, as not only is a great spammable offensive type, but it also provides a valuable Fighting-type immunity, and Fire pairs particularly well with it, as Ghost doesn't remove any of its resistances. Its coverage is great, as is only resisted by Hydreigon, Tyranitar, and Crawdaunt. That being said, I'm not as huge on this combination as others, because I feel like the metagame doesn't need another Ghost-type attacker, but its still a solid option.

Water/Ghost: While I see that this typing has a lot of positives, I feel like Water-type in general is too passive in the current metagame, with many immunities and resistances being common, so I'd always end up preferring Fire/Ghost over it, which has many of the same resistances with more offensive presence. That typing might not be as good as a counter to Syclant, but it could still serve as an excellent offensive check to it, and I don't think its wise to focus on fully countering mons given that we're supposed to be primarily offensive in nature.

Poison/Dark and Poison/Normal: I'm putting these together because they share the same problem: lack of useful resistances. The first one only resists Ghost, Dark, Poison, Grass, and Psychic, but out of these, I'd only consider the first two valuable, as the others are currently very uncommon. Poison/Normal is pretty similar, having a Ghost-immunity and a Fairy resistance as its only noteworthy traits. As I said before, I think having several good resistances is much more useful than having few weaknesses. We're supposed to be primarily an offensive threat, so if we want CAP 27 to be able to enter the field many times per game, we should be abusing our resistances to find opportunities to switch in, not banking on our bulk to tank neutral hits.

 

[Orig Stall Guy]

Fire / Flying: Alright, I know what this typing bleeds: Stealth Rock weakness. Look past that for a second and look at the benefits. As Mx pointed out, Ground- and Fighting-type coverage is incredibly common in this metagame, so taking reduced damage from those is key. Not resisting Ice could be an issue, but it resists Syclant's U-turn, meaning it won't get chipped down so quickly. Fire / Flying just sits on Equilibra and Jumbao as well. Offensively, it's resisted by Rotom-H, Rotom-W, Crucibelle, and Tyranitar, of which Rotom-H is the most common by far. Of course, the Stealth Rock weakness exists, but try to turn your thinking around. This is the best chance we've ever had to explore Fire / Flying: Heavy-Duty Boots exist as an item to allow this typing to flourish properly. Another benefit is that Tyranitar cannot Pursuit trap it now. Overall, Fire / Flying is a really solid typing whose advantages I don't want to overlook in this thread.

Poison / Dark: I really struggle to see how this type isn't overall just better than Poison / Normal. Offenisvely, Poison / Dark is simply better. With just STAB coverage, it doesn't miss out on any Steel- or Ghost-types. Also, its STAB coverage can cripple any switch-ins with Poison status or potential item removal, which is extremely handy because that's just two moveslots being used. Poison / Normal on the other hand either has STABs that compete with status inflictions and/or just aren't that great offensively. Poison / Dark's matchup against Will-O-Wisp Dragapult could be a little shaky if we go physical, but in terms of Dark-typings, I think this one is pretty solid.

100% agree with all of this. As I previously posted, I really like fire/flying and poison/dark.

Fire/Dark is something Ive considered and Inceinaroar provides a solid example of a fire/dark offensive support Pokemon in the VGC meta. Just think Dark is pretty in limited in terms of defensive utility unless its poison/dark. Outside of STAB Knock Off, what does Dark offer?

 

[Gerard]

I'm gonna throw my support for Fire since I think is the one that opens the biggest array of options. Offensively we can have access to Lava Plume, Fire Lash, Mystical Fire, Sacred Fire, and even more out there moves like Fire Spin (to trap defensive checks), Inferno (though this would force us into No Guard), Mind Blown (to prevent spin/defog) and Shell Trap. I think this level of support is what we should be aiming for.

On the other hand I heavily dislike Dark, Ghost and Fairy. Honestly I don't think CAP should be adding more Ghosts and Faeries to the meta (tbh CAP seems to have a small problem when it comes to repeating many fo the same types), but even outside of that, and the fact that we already have a lot of really good Ghost and Fairy types in CAP, they don't have the same level of offensive support options. They are just generic good typings. Fairy is there just have a safe move to spam in Moonblast, same with Ghost unless we want to use Spirit Shackle there's not gonna be a lot to work with other. A similar problem happens with Dark but in the other way, in that Knock off is such a strong move that no other Dark attack has a chance of being used, specially since Pursuit is gone. Why use Snarl when Knock off will probably hit harder and also cripple the pokemon for the rest of the game?

I rather we chose a type with actual options that you could tinker depending on your team, so for that I want to propose Electric for a secondary typing. While this might seem superficially like Rotom-H we must remember that Rotom can't use any of the fire moves I previously mentioned, there's a lot of room to explore there, specially because just like with Fire, Electric has a lot of great offensive moves to choose from: Discharge, Nuzzle, Volt Switch, Thunder Wave and the out there ones like Bolt Beak (to punish switches), Overdrive (to break through Subs), Zap Cannon (again with the caveat of No Guard), Parabolic Charge (which can even open more options like threatening to become a bulky sweeper or even a revenge killer with Triage).

Without too much pool jumping Fire/Electric offers a lot of paths going forward we could take and offers a lot of versatility when it comes to support your team (specially through status and which ones will benefit your team the most) and as Rotom-H has shown is a great type overall that checks a lot of strong pokemon, just don't give it levitate.

 

[snake]

A similar problem happens with Dark but in the other way, in that Knock off is such a strong move that no other Dark attack has a chance of being used, specially since Pursuit is gone. Why use Snarl when Knock off will probably hit harder and also cripple the pokemon for the rest of the game?

One question I have is this: why is having a strong Knock Off a bad thing? Compressing Knock Off into a moveset as an attacking move also opens up the option of having moveslots for more utility options. Consider the possibility of going physical with Dark:

- STAB Knock Off
- Secondary STAB
- Utility
- Utility

I think this fills concept pretty well, especially if the secondary typing is something like Fire, Flying, or Poison. I don't think the "problem" with Dark typing is Knock Off outclassing other Dark-type attacking + utility moves; I think there just aren't that many viable Dark-type attacking + utility moves to begin with. You ask: "Why use Snarl when Knock Off exists?" I ask: "Why use Snarl, a low BP move, in singles at all?" (Snarl's usefulness in Doubles cannot be translated to Singles either.) Toxtricity is the only Pokemon I've ever seen use it as a weird tech option against Dragapult; certainly not as a mainstay option on its moveset.

Dark is a good typing for this CAP in general for the Ghost resistance, which is a huge premium in Generation 8, and offensive teams tend to struggle with Ghost-types. Since you praised Fire typings in your post, I'll reiterate that Fire / Dark is one of the cooler Dark typings due to its innate immunity to burns, which really opens up our attacking bias options, as well as all the utility moves that Fire typing has to offer.

Fire/Electric: This is another great offensive typing, as Rotom-Heat currently demonstrates and has great options that would allow us to spread burn and paralysis only using STAB moves. However, while resistances to Flying-, Ice- and Electric-type are great, it's still rater suspicious on the defensive side, as a x4 Ground-type weakness will make us offensively easy to check. I think its positives outweighs its negatives and could prove to be a very useful typing for CAP 27, so I'd also like to see more discussion on it and other possible combinations for Electric, which I think is very underexplored in the current discussion.

I rather we chose a type with actual options that you could tinker depending on your team, so for that I want to propose Electric for a secondary typing. While this might seem superficially like Rotom-H we must remember that Rotom can't use any of the fire moves I previously mentioned, there's a lot of room to explore there, specially because just like with Fire, Electric has a lot of great offensive moves to choose from: Discharge, Nuzzle, Volt Switch, Thunder Wave and the out there ones like Bolt Beak (to punish switches), Overdrive (to break through Subs), Zap Cannon (again with the caveat of No Guard), Parabolic Charge (which can even open more options like threatening to become a bulky sweeper or even a revenge killer with Triage).

Without too much pool jumping Fire/Electric offers a lot of paths going forward we could take and offers a lot of versatility when it comes to support your team (specially through status and which ones will benefit your team the most) and as Rotom-H has shown is a great type overall that checks a lot of strong pokemon, just don't give it levitate.

Sure, there are a lot of moves that Fire / Electric can take advantage of that Rotom-H can't take advantage of. However, proposing Fire / Electric means we're trying to compete with Rotom-H, an A-rank pivot that already arguably fills this concept exceedingly well. I struggle to understand how we can really compete with Rotom-H by shuffling some stats, giving it a few more moves, and changing its ability. The ability change will be the most difficult part because that's how Rotom-H is able to act as an offensive check to Syclant, Kyurem, and Equilibra. I'm not saying that Fire / Electric cannot be done, but it seems like a serious uphill battle.

I do agree that Electric typings have been relatively unexplored, but I don't think Fire / Electric is worth it.

 

[Wulfanator]

*clap clap* Type Review

Aside from some minor hiccups following the greenlighting of type combinations in the conversation, discussion has been incredibly detailed and positive for the most part.

I’d say that I’ve noticed various Fire-typings leading the discussion, but it is really freaking obvious at this point. I’m worried that we are hyper-focusing on Fire and it is causing us to discount other avenues of concept fulfillment. I think the only other typing that has stepped up to challenge Fire pairings is Poison. Other than that, it has felt like a lot of the types discussed in the single-typing analysis have been neglected.

After rereading through the early posts, Electric, Dark, and Flying were mentioned frequently. All these types have been suggested but only as pairings with Fire. Why aren’t we talking about these types to the same extent we have talked about Fire? I’d consider Electric on an equal playing field as Fire and Poison based on utility alone. These types need more discussion.

I’m also finding the all the fairy-resist mentions a little overrated. Fairy has not been as prevalent after the Arena Trap ban. We are also in no short supply of good fairy-resists either, so If there are any key resists to be considered for our concept, it would be some of the other prevalent types included in Mx’s post.

Green = S Rank
Blue = A+/A/A- Rank
Black = B+/B/B- Rank
Underlined = Has STAB

• Ground: Equilibra, Seismitoad, Excadrill, Colossoil, Kyurem, Syclant, Terrakion, Arghonaut, Conkeldurr, Hippowdon, Mamoswine, Gastrodon, Fidgit, Stratagem, Pajantom, Dracovish. (9 A-Rank, 7 B-Rank, 16 total)
• Fighting: Corviknight, Terrakion, Tomohawk, Conkeldurr, Aegislash, Zeraora, Jumbao, Kerfluffle, Kommo-o, Revenankh, Keldeo, Aurumoth, Reuniclus, Gengar. (1 S-Rank, 6 A-Rank, 7 B-Rank, 14 total)
• Fairy: Clefable, Jumbao, Zeraora, Kerfluffle, Sylveon, Grimmsnarl, Hatterene, Primarina, Stratagem, Sigilyph. (1 S-Rank, 2 A-Rank, 7 B-Rank, 10 total)
• Dark: Hydreigon, Mandibuzz, Colossoil, Zeraora, Arghonaut, Conkeldurr, Ferrothorn, Bisharp, Tyranitar, Obstagoon. (6 A-Rank, 3 B-Rank, 9 total)
• Fire: Mollux, Clefable, Rotom-Heat, Dragapult, Hydreigon, Pyroak, Cinderace, Stratagem, Cyclohm. (2 S-Rank, 3 A-Rank, 4 B-Rank, 9 total)
• Water: Seismitoad, Toxapex, Dracovish, Naviathan, Gyarados, Rotom-Wash, Pelipper, Keldeo. (2 A-Rank, 6 B-Rank, 8 total)
• Steel: Corviknight, Equilibra, Aegislash, Excadrill, Hydreigon, Jirachi, Bisharp. (1 S-Rank, 4 A-Rank, 2 B-Rank, 7 total)
• Dragon: Dragapult, Hydreigon, Kommo-o, Dracovish, Pajantom, Cyclohm. (2 A-Rank, 4 B-Rank, 6 total)
• Ghost: Dragapult, Aegislash, Necturna, Gengar, Pajantom, Revenankh. (2 A-Rank, 4 B-Rank, 6 total)
• Bug: Corviknight, Syclant, Mandibuzz, Colossoil, Aurumoth, Jirachi. (1 S-Rank, 3 A-Rank, 2 B-Rank, 6 total)
• Electric: Rotom-Heat, Zeraora, Rotom-Mow, Caribolt, Cyclohm, Rotom-Wash. (2 A-Rank, 4 B-Rank, 6 total)
• Grass: Jumbao, Ferrothorn, Necturna, Rotom-Mow, Caribolt, Pyroak. (2 A-Rank, 4 B-Rank, 6 total)
• Flying: Corviknight, Tomohawk, Mandibuzz, Pelipper, Sigilyph. (1 S-Rank, 2 A-Rank, 2 B-Rank, 5 total)
• Psychic: Clefable, Reuniclus, Aurumoth, Hatterene, Sigilyph. (1 S-Rank, 4 B-Rank, 5 total)
• Rock: Terrakion, Aegislash, Excadrill, Stratagem, Tyranitar. (3 A-Rank, 2 B-Rank, 5 total)
• Ice: Kyurem, Syclant, Mamoswine, Naviathan. (2 A-Rank, 2 B-Rank, 4 total)
• Normal: Conkeldurr, Colossoil, Obstagoon, Naviathan. (2 A-Rank, 2 B-Rank, 4 total)
• Poison: Mollux, Gengar, Kerfluffle. (1 S-Rank, 2 B-Rank, 3 total)

Ground and Fighting are the most desirable resists in this meta. I think this gives Flying incredibly valuable defensive utility that is being overlooked by the railroading of Fire. Other desirable resists included dark, fire, ghost, and ice. Dark provides some of these resists while having great support options at its disposal. I unfortunately do not have the time to address these topics in the detail they deserve because of the hysteria regarding COVID-19. I have been given a lot to manage between my school switching to online classes and my job with the PGA being on the line since major public events are rapidly being cancelled. I am stating this for transparency reasons so I don’t leave you all thinking that I am neglecting my responsibilities as a TLT member.

I want to propose a thought experiment to help establish some more diversity in the discussion. Imagine that I disallowed further discussion on fire-types, what types would start being discussed more? Of the 7 type pairings I see getting the most discussion right now, 5 of them would be getting removed from conversation. This is just an attempt to keep the conversation from getting too lopsided and allow us to have a few more angles to approach the concept.

 

[YellowAdminSilver]

:)

This is such a good post I wanna tattoo it on my face. Also I kept coming back to it so I figured I should mention how useful it is.

Hi again, this is a bit of another tangent but the discussion on Fire/Flying has brought to my attention that there's a couple of cool type combos that I've been instinctively disregarding for having quad weaknesses, where perhaps other people find them worth discussing. As I said earlier, being 4x weak to Rock is something I think we should avoid since it gimps the other stages of the process, but perhaps other weaknesses are workable as shown by Mollux, Jumbao, Ferro... I guess this is more of a question, I'm interested to see other people's takes on the 4x thing.
On Fire/Flying I've already talked about and so have other people, but in sum I find that outside of the Rock thing it's def one of the better, more pro-concept typings since it can come in on four of the most important attacking types rn in Fairy, Ground, Steel and Fighting and force out several common threats. If any type combo can work despite the Rock thing it's definitely this one soooo while I don't fully support it part of me kinda does.

Other interesting typings that would have to overcome some unfortunate weaknesses:

Electric/Fire

This one has been talked about and I think it offers quite a bit. It has a sweet 7 resistances versus only three weaknesses, and threatens a wide range of top threats such as Corv, Clef, Aegis, Mandi, Syclant, Tomo, Argho, Ferro, Jumbao, and Pex from the S+A ranks alone, plus Equi and Drill even if it fears their Ground STAB. It's immune to two different status and has sweet pro-concept STAB options. While I see the argument of it competing with Rotom-H, which admittedly encroaches heavily on the concept, there's a bunch that we can do during the movepool and especially stats stages to differentiate the two. Most notably, as Gerard mentioned, Rotom is locked out of several interesting Fire moves, with Fire Lash and Lava Plume just being two examples. CAP could feasibly be physically oriented too, or have a dramatically different stat distribution, not to mention it can coexist with a different Rotom form while Heat cannot. Overall I think it's a good typing and the more pressing matter would be managing the Ground weakness, as we can differentiate it from Rotom in other ways.

Electric/Poison

Another one with seven resistances, this time with only two weaknesses including Psychic, which is relatively safe in this meta. One of Electric's main draws is that it can really shine against common hazard control and this typing showcases that, dunking on Corv, Mandi, Tomo and occasional Spikes setters Argho and Pex. The worrying bit is evidently the near-inability to touch Ground-types and notable Steels and Ghosts, also known as Chronic Plasmanta Disorder. This puts more pressure on coverage moves and restricts the amount of moveslots that can be dedicated to utility, so I'm not really sure if it's actually worth it over other Electric combinations such as Fire, Steel or Dark.

Electric-Steel

This one is tied for the most resistances of all type combos () but its three weaknesses are big big attacking types (). This plus the Electric typing means it retains good matchups against Corv (sort of), Mandi, Pex, at the cost of stuff like Tomo, Body Press Corv/Ferro, Argo sort of? However, the Fighting and Fire weaknesses really hurt in matchups you should theoretically do well in such as Aegis, Pult, Syclant, Clef, Jumbao and Kyurem, while doing much worse vs Mollux. This combo has a lot of little things that we should want but those big Achiles heels are very, very unfortunate so it may not be worth it after all.

Poison/Fire

This one is super good! The issues are the looming Ground weakness, being weak to Rocks and the extreme competition with Mollux tho, so it probably goes in the recycle bin for now. Oops.

Some words on other typings that intrigue me:

Poison/Ground

This has gained some traction and personally I find it to be one of the most appealing. The Ground weakness is unfortunate but I don't find a lot of things that you'd come in on as a pure Ground-type that are suddenly threatening with the Poison addition. What you do get is blocking VSwitch, immunities to common status via Electric moves and Poison status in general, soaking TSpikes and key resistances in Fighting, Poison and Rock (hi Terrakion). An offensive mon that can flex on Zeraora is *chef's kiss* for offensive teams too. Your STABs are decently threatening as well, with the Grass-types that switch in on your Ground STAB fearing Poison, while the opposite goes for the Steels immune to your other STAB. Levitators and Flying-types are usually neutral to Poison at worst, even if you retain clear checks in Corv and Levitate Equi. Further, Nidoqueen has shown in past gens/lower tiers that this combo can get away with Ground+one coverage move while making good use of the resistances that Poison gives as an all-around supporter that isn't passive. Big fan overall.

Water/Poison

This one is kinda similar, trading the bad Corv matchup for a bad Mollux one. While you miss the Electric immunity, you can more readily prevent all variants of Equi from switching in and can come in on Mollux and Water-types easier. The Steel resistance is also kinda neat, so while I feel this typing is inferior to the one above it also has merits.

Grass/Poison

Oh boy, this one's new. The only real merit I find here is losing the Ground weakness, but your STAB combo gets so much worse. It does mean you can switch into Water attacks tho, and Roserade+Venusaur have repeatedly shown this combo can work, with Rose even being cited as an example during concept assessment. Worth a look at least.

Electric/Dark

I don't really remember my reasoning behind this one tbh outside of looking for Electric-type combos. This is probably worse than pure Electric but it was in my draft for some reason.

@ the above post, sorry if this reads as if I ignored most of it, I had most of this typed before it went up soz.

 

[quziel]

Ok, I have though of more cool typings, so I am making another post.

Ice / Fairy

Defensive:

Ice/Fairy:
Weaknesses: Fire, Poison, Rock, Steel
Resistances: Bug, Dark, Ice
Immunities: Dragon

The main thing this typing brings defensively is that it is legitimately the perfect Ice resist. Consider the standard Ice / Dragon / Ground Kyurem and Ice / Bug / Ground Syclant; This typing resists basically all of that, while being neutral to non-STAB ground coverage. Considering the overall strength of both Ice-Spam and TP Clef + Kyu this is legit a super useful defensive niche to occupy, and ye, offense would love to shut down the dumbness of Clef + Kyu, as well as taking on the best offense-breaker in the meta. Outside of this specific Ice-hate, it also provides a super useful Dragon-resist (hello Dragapult), and functions as a very workable Dark-resist (iffy into Hydreigon and Colos).

Offensive:

!ds resists ice, resists fairy, ou | cap
Aegislash, Cinderace, Darmanitan, Jirachi, Kitsunoh, Mollux, Naviathan, Rotom-Heat, Torkoal, Toxapex, Volkraken

Yeah, this is a pretty solidly long list, but if you look at it closely you'll note that literally every single mon on that list is either completely shut down by Status moves such as Willo, Item Manipulation such as Knock or Trick, or well, is Pex/Mollux. This brings access to a lot of solidly pro-concept moves such as Freeze Dry (legit perfect coverage in one slot, helping with 4MSS), Spirit Break (signature, but still super pro-concept), Moonblast (30% chance to win), and Icy Wind (probably only workable with technician, but speed drops help certain teammates). Overall an incredibly solid offensive typing that would just require work focusing on the Pex and Mollux matchups.

-------------------------------------------

Dark / Flying

Dark/Flying:
Weaknesses: Electric, Fairy, Ice, Rock
Resistances: Dark, Ghost, Grass
Immunities: Ground, Psychic

Defensive:

Ye, this has resistances for days, and two very relevant immunities, as shown by the overall strength of Mandibuzz. While Mandi is competition, I don't really think it crowds out much space at all for us unless we wanna make a fat defogger/pivot. We have very relevant Ghost, Dark, and Ground resists letting us potentially handle Dragapult, Aegislash, Pajantom, Hydreigon, and Colossoil based purely on typing, and while our weaknesses are fairly common thanks to Clefable, I don't think that's a huge issue.

Offensive:

/ds cap | ou, resists dark, resists flying:
Bisharp, Tyranitar

Ye, this is nearly perfect offensive coverage, admittedly held back by somewhat awkward STAB moves. STAB Knock is always super relevant to have, and would really help this typing out offensively, and as shown by Torn-T, the combo of Knock Off + Flying STAB is incredibly potent, especially considering that legit like every single Flying Resist is fairly item dependent (see Aegis, Rotom-Heat, Krillowatt, Equilibra). Even if we don't get Knock Off, its still super relevant coverage, and again, very few resists. Think this has real potential to end up in a really cool end product due to super relevant offensive and defensive typing.

---------------------------------------

Poison / Dragon

Defensive:

Poison/Dragon:
Weaknesses: Dragon, Ground, Ice, Psychic
Resistances: Bug, Electric, Fighting, Fire, Grass, Poison, Water
Immunities: None

This typing is super dependent upon its stupid number of resistances, letting you take on Mollux, Rotom-Heat, Zeraora, Conkeldurr, potentially Terrakion, Kommo-O, and Necturna based on basically typing alone. Like, its legitimately stupid how many resistances you have, even if you do have a fair few relevant weaknesses such as Ground and Ice. This is a great opportunity for a mon that compresses a metric ton of resists into a single slot.

Offensive:

/ds cap | ou, resists dragon, resists poison:
Aegislash, Bisharp, Cawmodore, Corviknight, Equilibra, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, Kitsunoh, Naviathan

That said, this combo definitely struggles offensively, being resisted by literally every single steel. Or perhaps that's a good thing, because literally every single steel is either crippled by Status (mainly Willowisp), or is wholly reliant on leftovers for recovery (see Ferrothorn). This is def a case where you'd have to work in some kind of secondary coverage because well, this typing is carried super hard by Dragon STAB, with Poison STAB being there for its wonderful secondary effects (see Sludge Bomb, Gunk Shot, Poison Fang all having high secondary effect stabs) and to beat up Fairy types. Overall this could be a super interesting STAB combo, and would have a load of potential to use a lot of abilities to accentuate its design if you can find a way to get past or weaken Steel types.

------------------------------------
Fire / Dark || Water / Poison || Poison / Ground || Fire / Electric || Grass / Poison || Electric / Dark

Thoughts on other typings

Fire / Dark

Overall pretty cool typing, gives relevant resists mainly to ghost types, while also checking Ice spam, and has a really useful offensive dual stab. Lowkey forces HDB, cause well, we got a lot of ghosts that love switching out often, but don't think that's a hugely bad thing. Also a load of relevant utility+damage moves such as Fire Lash, Lava Plume, Snarl, and Knock Off. Overall like it a fair bit, and along with Fire/Dragon its one of my fave Fire-Based typings.

Water / Poison

Bad Offensive typing + Bad Offensive typing = no bueno. Neither Poison nor Water really excel offensively in the current meta, and I think that barring some very specific abilities, this typing would really struggle to justify itself on an offensive support.

Poison / Ground

Poison is still a bad offensive typing, barring hitting Clefable SE, and Ground is surprisingly not all that great atm, leaving the STAB combo hard walled by Equilibra and Corviknight. This typing could def work, but like again, we're sorta gonna be occupying a lot of the same territory as Fidgit here, and I really don't love a redo. Reminds me a lot of Poison/Dragon in terms of relying heavily on support moves or coverage to chip answers, which is a good thing, but again, Fidgit rehash feels iffy, and for that reason I really don't love it. Another typing that lowkey feels like an overreaction to the previous fairy-centric meta.

Fire / Electric

Good offensive typing for an offensive support mon, having amazing offensive coverage barring Seis, Kommo-o, and Gastrodon, issue is that well, Rotom-Heat exists, and while we can work to differentiate ourselves from it, I think that could be a difficult thing, and the implicit competition with Heattom would limit our design space pretty hard. Not a combo I really support.

Grass / Poison

Bad Offensive Typing + Bad Offensive Typing = no bueno. Many type combos can make themselves work while only having one good offensive stab, but neither Grass nor Poison is strong enough to really function for me. That said, relatively cool defensive resists, even if its basically geared to be an anti-fairy meta mon.

Electric / Dark

Electric / Dark is legit a super cool combo, and gives you access to a legit ton of cool utility moves. Furthermore, you occupy a really cool niche as Corviknight answer + Ghost answer, which a lot of teams want. Overall I like this typing a fair bit. Cool potential to explore a lot of the support options for both typings (eg Snarl, Discharge, Charge Beam, Knock Off, Electroweb) while still maintaining a really useful defensive niche again due to the Ghost + Corvi answer.

------------------------

General Thoughts:

• Overall I can't really support any type combo without at least one good offensive STAB, as seen in Grass/Poison and Water/Poison.
• Fairy types really aren't that dominant anymore, we don't need to be a fairy resist here, if anything Ice and Ghost attacks are far more relevant to resist than Fairy.
• Dark Typings are really cool as alluded to in Wulf's post, and bring us a lot of really cool offensive and defensive aspects to the cap.
• I think our design space is a bit limited cause a lot of the cooler typings for an offensive support are already taken up by other offensive supports, or supports that fit on offense (Rotom-Heat, Fidgit, Mollux, TP Clefable and Jumbao overshadowing legit half of Fairy typings)
• Overall my top 5 (unordered) are Fire/Dragon, Fire/Dark, Electric/Dark, Dark/Flying, and Water/Ghost, all of which offer cool defensive niches, at least one super spammable offensive stab, and the potential for useful utility attacks.

--------------------------

Edit: Fixing formatting, adding in some general thoughts.

 

[theotherguytm]

Hi again, this is a bit of another tangent but the discussion on Fire/Flying has brought to my attention that there's a couple of cool type combos that I've been instinctively disregarding for having quad weaknesses, where perhaps other people find them worth discussing. As I said earlier, being 4x weak to Rock is something I think we should avoid since it gimps the other stages of the process, but perhaps other weaknesses are workable as shown by Mollux, Jumbao, Ferro... I guess this is more of a question, I'm interested to see other people's takes on the 4x thing.
On Fire/Flying I've already talked about and so have other people, but in sum I find that outside of the Rock thing it's def one of the better, more pro-concept typings since it can come in on four of the most important attacking types rn in Fairy, Ground, Steel and Fighting and force out several common threats. If any type combo can work despite the Rock thing it's definitely this one soooo while I don't fully support it part of me kinda does.

So to quell your worries about Fire/Flying, I would like to remind you that Moltres and Ho-Oh were not only used as defensive mons, they were actually used as Defoggers. They would come in on hazard setters trying to get hazards up, and force them out while Defogging. Talonflame in Gen 6 has some surprising defensive utility to go with full-power Gale Wings, thanks to its outstanding typing letting it switch in on common threats. And this is all before Boots existed.

Though I would like to remind people something about Flying that has been forgotten slightly it seems. Yes, Flying has notoriously few resists. But it doesn't actually hit much Super Effectively. So if we want to force out opponents as opposed to just switching into them, we'll need some offensively inclined stats. Which means less bulk. Again, Talonflame shows us this is workable but... Without priority Roost, our bulk will not be that great.

Ice / Fairy

I am down for any pairing that involves Ice. This one especially, I would want to see Alotails's typing without Alotails's useless bulk.

On the Dark note again: I still don't understand why people are equating STAB on Knock Off with good utility. Have a look through Bisharp's movepool and see how often it breaks out its utility options like Thunder Wave. Knock Off Attacker has been done just a few times now. And realistically, we want to avoid a type with weakness to two potent offensive typings and U-turns. Just spamming STAB Knock Off is not anything new, or what this concept calls for, and Dark does not offer a lot beyond that.

Again, I think Poison falls into a similar trap. The allure of "we have Toxic" blinds people to the downsides of this typing. However, I think this one does have at least something going for it defensively. Where it falls flat on its face however, is offensively: Poison moves are as likely to scare something out as an Ember. There is more than a few Steels who would love free switchins, Grounds who resist us, and even other Poisons. I think this typing would need an extremely good offensive pairing, and even then it's only meh.

So my favourite typings thusfar:
Fire/Flying (Seriously tough typing and great STABs.)
Fighting/Normal (this has been overlooked thusfar, I know Normal isn't great, but Fighting in unison with it works)
basically anything involving Ice lol. (Fire/Ice??? In all seriousness, there has never been a better time to be an Ice type. Just look at the five [six if you count Garm/KB] decent Ices in existence and how well they are doing)
Typings I'm unconvinced by, but open to:
Fire/Electric (I know I bought this one up, but Rotom-H's existence is harsh)
Fire/Dragon (the fanboy typing, I don't really see the appeal, but I'm open)
Water/Ghost (I like, but I want more discussion on)

 

[Deck Knight]

I know Wulfanator had said in a thought experiment to consider typings other than Fire, however the one I am about to discuss has not been brought up specifically thus far, and its other benefits only marginally mentioned in other suggestions.

After some consideration I want to support Fire/Normal:

Hits Super-Effective: Bug, Grass, Ice, Steel
Resisted By: Rock
Weaknesses: Fighting, Ground, Rock, Water
Resistances: Bug, Fairy, Fire, Grass, Ice, Steel
Immunities: Ghost, Burn

Common Resisting Pokemon:
Tyranitar, Chandelure, Terrakion, Dragapult, Crucibelle, Pajantom, Stratagem

Pros:
It Resists What?: Fire is, on paper, the second strongest defensive typing in the game after Steel. It has 3 (unfortunately bad) weaknesses, but resists 6 types. Normal adds the Ghost immunity for a 7th switch-in opportunity, and in CAP's case an immunity to being trapped by Spirit Shackle. Fire also resists very relevant types of attacks, including Fairy, Bug (U-turn SPAM), Ice (Syclant/Kyurem), Steel (Doom Desire), and Fire itself. It's a very solid defensive profile for two types, and the Ghost immunity clinches it as a unique option over alternatives.

Ghost Immunity and Strong Neutral coverage: The key beneficial aspect Normal brings to fire is the defensive and neutral offensive options it opens up. Fire is an amazing offensive type because it wards off Steels. While CAP has a significant share of good Water and Dragon Pokemon (and Stratagem), most of them do not like Burn (Naviathan excepting). While Dragapult can and does run Special sets, its physical ones also hate burn. Pajantom is immune to burn, which is problematic, but it also can't hit CAP with Spirit Shackle (which it could do to, say, a Fire/Dark CAP 27)

Offensive Pressure + Support: I'll get straight to the point on this: Rapid Spin got an immense buff this generation with both a significant Base Power (factoring STAB) and a speed increase. Rapid Spin is no longer just a passive switch-in opportunity for an opponent to exploit, it is now a chance to revenge kill, kick off a sweep, or finish off a weakened opponent and end in a strong gamestate. While granting it STAB could be done using Abilities, having it naturally allows Ability to be used for other, more effective support purposes. Rapid Spin is hardly the only move to benefit. Body Slam has a significant paralysis chance, Crush Claw lowers Defense half the time (though I suppose Fire Lash is already superior in every way), Normal has multiple priority moves, and even with Return/Frustration dexited, Double-Edge is still the fallback high-power high-accuracy option. Basically, Normal doesn't have the problem a lot of other types do where the useful attacks cap out at a low base power or questionable accuracy.

The Third Move: Rock types are admittedly a problem, but are also very easy to hit with a coverage move. Given that Fire/Normal can already compress defensive and offensive support with a slew of useful STAB support moves, using a third slot to cover Rock types should not be difficult. Even in the absence of super-effective coverage, Fire/Normal combined with Knock Off addresses Chandelure/Dragapult/Pajantom and hits Rock-types neutrally. Your fourth slot can be dedicated either to recovery or to that other utility move or to coverage.

Cons:
The Boots Issue: Although any Fire type without a mitigating combination is pressured into running Heavy-Duty Boots, the best physical attack Normal and Fire have also have recoil, so that damage might be especially acute. That said, the ability to spread burns with attacks and potential access to high-powered special moves for both STABs can mitigate this.

Neutral, not Super-Effective: Normal's defensive contribution stems primarily from the Ghost immunity and the suite of offensive support moves with STAB. If you go for power you aren't getting support, if you go for support you don't get the big power boost from running high Base Power moves.

On Balance:
On Balance I think Fire/Normal checks all the boxes for a Pokemon that can specialize in offensive support. Anyone remember the Flame Charge debate on Smokomodo? That's the Rapid Spin debate now (notwithstanding no assumed abilities). Having multiple statuses on-call with relatively powerful attacks backing them, combined with a unique defensive profile will allow CAP 27 to both succeed in its role and differentiate itself from alternatives.

 

[NumberCruncher]

I'd actually like to put my support behind Normal/Fighting. This combination actually had a couple good things going for it that weren't bought up in the other post advocating for it.

Firstly, the only mons this type combination can't hit super-effictively is Ghost. As pointed out in theotherguytm's post, this would give us perfect coverage with Normal/Fighting/Knock Off, which is good because Knock Off is one of the best utility moves in the game for an offensive mon. What wasn't brought up is that it also gives us perfect coverage with Normal/Fighting/Hex, which is one of very few moves that rewards us offensively for being a support mon.

Secondly, Normal/Fighting also has a number of interesting STAB moves for what we're trying to accomplish.

From Normal: Body Slam is one of only two paralysis moves that work on Ground types. Rapid Spin gets significant better this gen thanks to the speed buff and the power buff. Tri-Attack can actually apply a number of different statuses, as well as being the other move that can paralyse a Ground type(albeit less reliably). Boomburst is the strongest special STAB move with no drawbacks. Double Edge hits insanely hard even on resists. Heck, even Facade let's us get into fights with other support mons effectively.

From Fighting: Fighting gets numerous physical attacks that hit for 100 BP or more. Drain Punch gives this combo a method to heal without letting up offensive pressure. Circle Throw can be considered to push an opponent through hazards if we decide CAP wants to set them. Focus Blast gives us strong STAB on the special side of we decide to go special. Vacuum Wave is the only special priority move it we decide we need that.

Thirdly, Normal/Fighting not only had relevant resists in the form of a Rock resist and a Ghost immunity, but also gives it some very pertinent weaknesses, like Fairy and Flying. This is actually important, because it gives CAP a good reason to want to support its teammates, rather than just try to clear by itself. Let's Go era Melmetal is actually a pretty good example of the problem with Offensive Supports that are to hard to force out. Melmetal, on paper, seems to look pretty on model from what we want to achieve. The combination of Double Iron Bash, Thunder Wave, good coverage to keep up pressure, and a few nice support moves. In practice, the support moves never really made it into his sets. Even Thunder Wave was a bit of a niche pick. Because Melmetal could deal a ton of damage while also sponging hits, it could pretty easily just focus on chunking away at the opponent's team every time it came in. This meant that whatever mom tried to fight it would usually be damaged enough after the fact that it would be pretty easy to clean up even without a status applied. Thus, I feel that while CAP should be able to come in pretty comfortably, it should also want to pivot out on threats.

 

[Amamama]

I find the huge number of possible typings kinda overwhelming, and its a bit annoying to have to look all over the place for comparing these types. Thus I have compiled a list of types, that offer great coverage on their own, while not being too overwhelming, by checking for resistances/immunities and weaknesses to their stabs for all S to B rank Pokemon (which is maybe the counterpart for lyds defensive typing compilation.)
Meeting a resist balances out a weakness. immunities are factored in as well.
As there are 56 Pokemon in these ranks, a score of 56 would be neutral overall coverage.
Omissions are Tpe combos that score more than 70 points which translates to hitting for 125% damage on avareg and those, that don’t hit At least everything neutral on average.
That said, I didn’t factor in actual viability, so this is just an average of how many of the listed Pokemon are affected by one type combination.

The list runs from higher score to low, so the first few are the most threatening offensively.
I’m going to list all supportive attacking options each type offers and try to rate them based on moves and comparison to lyds defensive list.

so let’s go.

Fighting, Psychic 70

supportive Attacks: Luster Purge, Mist Ball, brick break, force palm, low sweep, drain punch
This combo doesn’t have a great array of supportive attacking moves, which also are mixed on both offenses, with psychic on the special and fighting on the physical side. This would either force us to go mixed, which I don’t think is helpful or chose one of both Stabs as primary attacking and one as supportive option.
This typing might have going for it that it can threaten many different mons. Especially taking on Mollux, Pex and Thorn at the same time might be interesting.
Adding dark moves like Knock off as coverage would greatly improve its offensive presence. Although I think this would tip Cap 27 to go full offense if we don’t hamper it in stats and move pool.
While it could be useful on its offensive side, it doesn’t offer too much in terms of defense, aside from a good fighting resist and reduced damage from rocks, with notable weaknesses to ghost and fairy.

Fire, Ground 69

Attacks: Bulldoze, Earth Power, Mudshot, Mud Bomb, Incinerate, Mystical Fire, Blue Flare, Fire Lash, Inferno, Lava Plume,Sacred Fire, Searing Shot
While ground doesn’t really offer a great abundance of supportive attacking moves, Fire has a great variety, of as well special as physical moves, the listed above only representing those with the highest probability of added effects.
Both typinags offer incredible stabs on both sides that hit really hard.
Again there are several Pokémon, especially in the top ranks that hate its stabs.
while it suffers a 4 time weakness to water and doesn’t like ground, it is immune to Electric (Twave), forces out many fairies which rely on fire coverage and only takes neutral damage from rocks. It’s still susceptible to other entry hazards though.
Also one of the last CAPs was of this typing, with a similar role and it doesn’t appear in the top ranks.
So maybe this typing is not as interesting as it seems.

Fire, Fighting 69

Attacks: find above
another fire typing with neutral damage from rocks, which makes it easier to come in repeatedly without being reliant on hdb. Again it has access to a wide supportive attacking move pool, this time adding interesting options for paralysis in Force palm and screen removal in brick break. It’s also a good matchup against most good mons in the meta.
this said it is not great defensiveply, loosing its fairy resistance and not resisting any of the top attacking types in the meta.

Rock, fairy 68

Rock Tomb, Smack down, draining kiss, Moonblast, Spirit BReak
This typing joins two great offensive typings and kinda makes them worse? it doesn’t offer many good supporting options, although Moonblast is one of the strongest moves with an added effect.
its also not really good defenaively, being 4 times weak to steel, hating ground, and not resisting fighting anymore.
So while MDiancie, which was mentioned briefly in the concept assessment, was quite successful, I think this was despite its typing and not because of it.

Dark, Flying 68

Crunch, Darkest Lariat, Knock off, snarl, thief, punishment, bounce, hurricane, beak blast, chatter, oblivion wing
Dark flying was one of the top contenders last I checked.
It has Some really potent supporting options on its dark side and some quite unreliable through its flying typing.
of course spamming stab knock off without fearing fighting types is a huge boon and the spammabilty of flying type is also not bad.
Again no S to A rank mon resist both its stabs.
It is also really good defensively. It doesn’t care for spikes or webs, is immune to ground and psychic and shrugs of ghost moves. While Flying looses its fighting resistance and its still hurt by fairy, it can come in on many threats to fulfill its role.
The only thing hurting this combo is the prevalence of ice in this meta.

Water, Flying 68

Attacks: Liquidation, Muddy Water, Razor shell, Scald, Water Pulse, octazooka, steam eruption, Find flying above.
Another interesting flying type mix. It offers another example of a good supportive attacking move in scald and some other options which might be exploitable. Offensively it pairs well with flying, hitting many top threats super effectively or at least neutral.
Flying offers the chance of switching in on most hazards, ground, Steel and fighting type attacks, water alleviates its weakness to ice, although taking 4 times damage to freeze dry is unfortunate.
This cap would compete against pellipper, which already lost some appeal, due Tuesday suns strength, and I think CAP 27 could be easily differentiatEd from It.

Flying, Ghost 68

Shadow Ball, destiny bond,
at first glance this typing looks fun, but is wholly inferior to its dark counterpart, as it doesn’t hit more threats and loses its ghost resist, while not offering many options move wise.

Fire, Grass 67

giga drain, apple acid, drum beating, grab apple, leaf tornado, seed flare, trop kick
Grass is a typing, that in my Opinion got looked over, especially considering its support options which focus predominantly on stat debuffs. It also has a good offensive recovery option in Giga drain especially with all the snails and toads running around. Fire contributes burn chance to it and pairs quite well offensively Although leaving some notable switch ins, mainly the dragons and Rotom H.
defensively this typing is not as good. It hates all entry hazards, only resists fairy, grass and steel of the most important attacking types and Doesn’t handle well ghost, fighting ice and ground.

Dark, Steel 67

Mirror shot
This might the better of three offensive pairings of steel type, that is useful for this mon.
Steel doesn’t add anything movepoolwise, but it offers much needed coverage against fairy and dark decimates ghost types, while resisting the stabs of all major ghost types in the meta.
its also quite good defensively, being immune to or resisting many types, as lyds list shows. It also only takes dam of spikes. Drawbacks of this typing are the weak base power of its stabs, a quad fighting type weakness, and being weak to ground and fire coverage.
It also faces strong competition in Bisharp, which also offers quite an expansive support move pool, which it almost never uses. Maybe stats and Movepool might help set it apart.

Psychic, Ice 67

Freeze dry, Glaciate
This is a type combo we don’t see often in the higher metas. As well the newly added freezepants as the old lipstick wearer dont seem to be relevant at all.
this typing might offer some things offensively, but it is astonishingly bad defensively.
weakneses to ghost, fire, rock, dark steel and several others and being weak to all hazards set it back.

Steel, Fighting 66

Attacks: find above
This is the weaker of the steel combos. again being able to hit fairies adds A lot to the fighting type. it plays similarly offensively as dark steel, but has set backs defensively, which might make it a worse choice.

Electric, dark 66

Electro web, Volt switch, zap cannon, discharge
I think this typing wasn’t brought up yet. adding to the dark typ utility, high chance paralysis moves is nice, also stab volt switch could tie in nicely with wish passing or hazard control. It might be awkward that electric offers mostly special moves and Dark mostly physical.
it is not too bad defensively adding a para immun, although aside from its resistance to ghost and steel it suffers from weaknesses to fighting ground and fairy. It also doesn’t take hazards well.

Normal, Ground 65

Body Slam, Endeavor, Fake our, Nature Power, Pain Split, Super Fang, Tri Attack, chip away, crush claw, dizzy punch
Another Type without mention I think.
This is actually a pretty solid option I guess
Normal brings some interesting attacking options to the table. Also, Similarly to Normal fighting, which was brought up, Normal gains from matching with ground hitting practically every mon for neutral damage, and paired with knock off would be unregistered. It doesn’t hit that much super effectively but that might even be good for this concept.
Two immunities two resistancees and only 4 weaknesses Also is not bad. Again lessened damage from rocks is nice.
This mon might suffer from all the Ice in the meta, but still could be really solid on many teams.

Rock, Grass 65

Attacks: see above
Offensively it can go for many water flying and fire types that roam the lesser regions of the ranks. Defensively both typings balance each other out, but still this typing is held back by ice, steel and fighting weaknesses.
So I don’t think this is really an option

Dragon, Ghost 65

Breaking swipe, dragon breath, core enforcer
we already have some very strong competition for a spot on the team, so this would be hard to pull off I guess. Also it doesn’t offer many options for offensive support.

Psychic, Ground 64

Attacks: find above
Walled by Corvi, Hydra, and Mandibuzz but other than that pretty solid against many of the top mons, it’s supportive movepool isn’t extensive but might be workable. It has some good switch in opportunities in rock and fighting types and doesn’t take much damage from rocks, plus is immune to twave. Still its hurt by all the ghost and ice mons running amok on the meta.
might be workable (claydol has been a rather weak example of this typing and role.)

Electric, dragon 64

Find above
walled by excadrill, thorn, equi and Jumbao, but has pretty solid coverage on many mons in the meta otherwise.
electric offers some potential with its movepool supportively while both stabs are spammable offering high power output.
similar to dragon fire, while not being as offensive.
It also still keeps its fairy and ice weakness and doesn’t have anything to go against hazards, although volt switch might help for repeated switch ins

Electric, Fire 63

find above
has been brought up multiple times, for its huge combined amount of workable supportive options. It’s stabs also hit many different mons balancing weakness and resists out quite well, with the notable exception of dragons, which resists both its stabs.
on defense it offers most notably immunities to two major status conditions, is practically immune to steel. It’s quad ground weakness and damage from entry hazards is crippling though and outside of levitate which would make it to similar to Rotom H I don’t see many options that are relevant, which hurts the viability of this typing quite a bit.

Electric, flying 63

find above
I guess this is my alternative to the above electric fire.
While it’s hard Walled by several steel and electric types, these Pkm can’t really hurt it back and it’s got good overall coverage and again acces to electrics interesting movepool.
It also is only weak to ice and rock (good attacking types though), has a ground and paralysis immunity and avoids most hazards.
I guess we only should avoid making Zappos II, because that’d be boring and also we might get that bird back soon.

Electric, Psychic 63

find above
don’t think it’s worth considering.
while it is a good offensive typing. It doesn’t bring the durability for this project

Poison, Dark 63

Gunk shot, poison jab, sludge bomb, acid spray, clear smog, poison fang
the only poison typing which hit the sweet spot for me (ground poison is too good coverage wise, ice poison seems weird and everything else is just bad offensivel.
Dark appreciates being able to hurt fairies and it hits everything in the higher ranks except for collosoil.
It is quite similar to dark steel in that regard and only slightly less offensive. While dark steel is also better defensively having more actual resists, only havin one weakness is not bad and the access to poison moves is what sways me towards this option between the two.

Fighting, Ground 63

Find above
surprisingly middling combination for such strong attacking types.
hits many things though so also not bad. It’s supportive moves are quite limiting, although compressing recovery and speed control into offensive moves might be valuable, especially when both have extremely potent stabs to compensate for the lack in power. One major stab one supportive stab two support move could be workable.
being quad resistant to rocks is also nice, although other hazards still hurt
while it has an immunity, having 7 weakness and only 4 resistances doesn’t make it easy to come in on things.

Fire, Flying 62

This has had much traction And it sits Perfectly balanced between offense and defense, which makes it really appealing,
resisting fightin, fairy, steel fire grass and ground compresses many coveted resistances onto one mon.
at the same time it can hit all s and a ranked Pokémon except for rotom h at least neutrally.
Its movepool is also very promising.
its only real downside is its 4 times weakness to rocks respectivly knock off with hdb And maybe the unreliability of its flying stabs. Also there have been examples of Pokémon that have played our desired role really well with this typing.

Grass, flying 62

as well offensively as defensively this typing doesn’t really go well together. It has several key Pokémon that resist its stabs and it’s just bad defensively with key weaknesses and only resistances to some minor typings

Grass, Ice 62

while this typing is quite good offensively it is as weak defensively with so many things hurting it, esepically on mons it would like to come into, that it won’t find the time to support the team

Flying, Fairy 62

again a flying combo that, is workable, while it hates steel, it can find many targets with both its stabs. Being immune to ground and dragon is nice an a 4 times resist to fighting is also beautiful. Aside from being a fairy type I really like this although it’s supportive movepool is quite shallow. also will similar to togekiss (which is unreleased or not relevant?)

Fire, Ice 61

the GoT combo. I fee like this could be nice. It’s not as good defensively as other fire combos, missing out on steel and fire resists and adding weaknesses to fighting and doubling its rock weakness. This mon would be hard pressed finding options to come in. That said HdB alleviates it’s hazard weakness and being able to threaten so many mons with its stabs, leaving only room for fire Types (considering freeze dry) to come in, which aren’t as common right now, is really good. Combined with its useful movepool this might be an interesting route.

Poison, ice 61

this is a weird one and I don’t know what to do with this.
i don’t think it’s actually workable, but I just love how poison ice sounds

Grass, Fairy 60

we already have jumbao. So no.

Fighting, Dragon 60

it is good offensively only being reliably blocked by fairy types, but it doesn’t offer that many useful support moves and just has some really bad weaknesses that would hinder its success. Still Kommo-o finds usage with also a supportive set.

Flying, Ice 60

while on paper this sounds like a better offensive typing than fire flying it hates all the steel in this meta
and isn’t as reliable defensively as its fire counterpart.

Steel, Ground 59

we already have to strong mons, so even if this might be a good typing for this mon, just don’t let us do this

Normal, Fighting 59

this has had some support, around the thread especially in conjunction with knock Off. While it plays similar to normal ground offensivel, it doesn’t really offer the same defensive capabilities. So if we go the normal rout I think normal ground would be the better option Of the two.

Normal, Ice 59

hates steel on offense and fighting on defense. So no.

Normal, Ghost 59

this one is really interesting defensively having only one weakness. It is similar to poison dark in that regard.
while normal typing offers a great variety of different moves to support your mon/team this typing is not es strong defensively as its counterpart.

Psychic, Fairy 58

offensively it’s to stabs overlap on fighting and compliment each other on poison respectively dark types. This leaves only steel as a type that resists its stabs. it doesn’t have to many supportive options.
it resists fighting 4 times and is immune to dragon which is good, but hates the predominance of ghosts and steel in the meta. also guardevoir which is an example for this typing isnt used in the meta, so we’d have to check why that is and if we could tailor it to be used.

Water, Dark 57

this has been brought up as strong stab combination With good defensive capabilitie. Surprisingly it sits at the bottom of this list. Missing some of the top threats in hydreigon, Jumbao, Octo Pirate and keldeo. Otherwise it IS a pretty solid stab combination with acces to scald/knock off most notably.
It also resists steel And ghost which is good. Hazards fighting and fairy could hinder it though.

Fire, Normal 57

again a normal type combo which helps in its matchup versus steel, this time missing out on hitting rock though.
while those might make the other two a little bit better offensively there aren’t as many rock types in the meta as there are steel. Also fire adds its defensive properties to normal which likes resisting steel, fairy etc.
also this is the combination with the widest movepool options on its attacks, with debufling, burn, paralysis etc. at its disposal.

Dragon, Fairy 57

its overall redundancies offensively and defensively are not really good. All steels sit atop of this it doesn’t like fairy matchups is hit by ground, rock and ghost neutrally, which make it hard to come in in this meta And it has a shallow movepool for support.

Dragon, Ice 56

wouldnt go on any team because of kyurem, except we go for even more power.

Fire, Dark 56

Again one of the more discussed typings. Inciniroar has shown that it is viable for team support, with a wide array of supporting options, a wide range of Pokémon it can threaten and some good resistances. Still it isnt as good offensively as the other fire typings.
loosing fairy resistance to a ghost is an even trade in this meta.
it is also a good contender.

sorry for the length of this.

but I hope to show that the overall direction of the discussion on a good path, with its focus on fire, flying and dark type combos which seem to be the most balanced overall. Interestingly some of the fighting and ground and Normal combos which appear in the list feel quite nice too.

form me flying is the best first typing though, as its combinations in dark, water, fire, electric and even fairy are balanced enough to take different routes for this project.
Fire has the upside of maybe balancing meta away from steel
I especially think - except for fire flying - its combos with normal and ice are interesting, electric feels too close to rotom h no matter how hard we try to veer it away fighting and ground seem too offensive and fire dark looses to the other three dark combos in poison, flying and steel

After all this there are still 10 type combos left that I think could go all the way on very different paths.
I just wish we could make two caps with different emphasizing on this project to see how good different actualizations of this project would fare in the meta.

P.S. how the f... do I insert hide tags?

Edit: Inserted tags, and did som minor correction.

 

[Pipotchi]

Just on the topic of something Ive seen brought up in the discord and here, I dont think we need to be afraid of being too offensive at this stage- we have examples of CAPs in the past with next to perfect STAB coverage that have actually ended up all falling into (or able to tech into) the supportive offense role- Equilibra, Revenankh, Kitsunoh and Smokomodo.

How did they end up not becoming pure offensive mons? Equilibra is slow and without the means to boost its offenses, as well as has access to a delayed hitting move that doesnt pair well with sweeping. Revenankh has priority and boosting, but its setup is too slow to get going vs defensive/revenge killing measures, and doesnt have high BP moves to hit hard from the jump. Kitsunoh has the speed to get things done, as well as an ability and custom move that allows it high BP moves for a Ghost-type, but its prevented from sweeping due to being not having high offensive stats (but I would still absolutely consider it an offensive pokemon). Smokomodo has perfect coverage and high BP moves, and it does make good use of those. And because it didnt get any speed boosting, it uses its free slots to control hazards, heal, spam status, and revenge kill if wanted.

So heres 4 examples of preventative measures. Its just a case of not giving the mon everything it wants at once, like if it gets access to 120 and 130BP attacks, lets not also give it enormous offensive stats and speed on top. If we give it priority, lets not also give it harsh boosting moves that are going to let it go on a rampage. The benefits of having an amazing STAB combo are really clear and pro-concept here, and I dont think they will cause any negatives as long as people dont go overboard in later stages. I understand if you dont like offensive typing based on not being as good defensively, but with regards to being too good or overwhelming :No pokemon is broken by typing alone, and I dont think any typing prevents us from executing the concept.

edit: tomo + kerfluffle are also mons that we've done before that can tech into offensive support with damn near perfect STAB coverage. compare to necturna's near perfect STAB coverage that has gone full offensive due to being allowed to overload with perfect setup, and huge BP attacks, high enough speed and high atk, despite its built-in ghost type utility, utility moves in its original movepool and access to any support move in the game.

 

[Wulfanator]

Hey all.

This is a 48 hour warning for the thread. I would highly recommend discussing underrepresented types over the next two days. If there is a sudden surge in thread activity, I will consider extending discussion. Otherwise, I will be talking with Jho and the TLT to finalize a slate for Monday at this time.

 

[snake]

As this thread is coming to a close soon, I'd like to re-highlight the typings I like the best.

Fire / Dark
Fire / Flying
Fire / Dragon
Dark / Flying
Poison / Dragon
Poison / Dark

Each of these types have different strengths and weaknesses that we've gone over in this thread, but you might notice that there's a bit of a common theme among these types: they're all combinations of Fire, Poison, Dark, Flying, and Dragon. Here's my rationale:

Fire

• Offers excellent offensive presence
• Automatic Fairy and Ice resists are excellent when combining with secondary typings
• Having burn immunity prevents one avenue of chip damage and attack decrease if we choose physical
• Can compress moveslots due to good powered STAB moves having useful secondary effects
• Can pressure Corviknight super effectively
• Can utilize Heavy-Duty Boots unlike previous generations

Poison

• Toxic immunity cannot be understated
• Automatic Fairy and Fighting resistances are excellent
• Most of the good Poison type STAB moves offers a good chance to poison, improving its offensive presence

Dark

• The Ghost-type resistance is extremely excellent which combats Dragapult, Pajantom, and Aegislash
• Great neutral offensive coverage to compensate for the relative lack of resistances
• Better than Normal typing by actually hitting things super effectively and having no immunities at all, let

Dragon

• Many resists, which allows it to switch in often
• Excellent neutral coverage options

Flying

• Key Fighting- and Ground-type resistance / immunity
• Excellent neutral coverage options

All of these typings on their own have: very key resistances (Fairy, Fighting, Ghost, Ground, etc.) and decent to good neutral coverage. Now, I've combined them carefully to get the typings I really like. Some highlights are covering Dragon-types' weaknesses, maximizing neutral coverage, not being walled by Steel-types without severe compensation, trying to check dangerous Ghost-types like Dragapult and Necturna, etc.

Fire / Dark

• Pros
  • Loses out on the Fairy resistance, but Fairy-neutrality is worth having such a good offensive typing
  • Burn immunity + Ghost resistance already gives this typing good assets for checking Dragapult, which is hard for bulky offensive teams to check without resorting to Choice Scarf Hydreigon or Jumbao (which are weak to Dragapult's Draco Meteor or Fire Blast) or more passive walls like Clefable and Mollux (not a bad pick for bulky offense, but they suck up momentum). Also resists BOTH of Necturna's STABs, meaning it could act as a Necturna check too.
  • Has to watch out for Close Combat Aegislash but can switch into STAB options very well and has the STABs to force it out
  • Can switch into Pajantom's spammable Spirit Shackle but must watch out for Earthquake
  • Burn immunity means going physically offensive faces fewer challenges
  • Takes neutral damage from anything Clefable can throw at it
• Cons
  • Wants Heavy-Duty Boots a lot
    • Counterpoint: Heavy-Duty Boots is by no means a bad item, it can still function if it loses HDB, and it doesn't have to run HDB

Fire / Flying

• Pros
  • Excellent pile of resistances, allowing it to switch into Equilibra, Excadrill, and Jumbao pretty much perfectly
    • Can help with its team's Syclant matchup by not being chipped down by U-turn
  • Steel-types aren't safe to switch into Flying-type STAB because of Fire-type STABs
  • A Fire-type that preys on Arghonaut is great
  • Rock-types aren't too big of a challenge: Tyranitar is less common than ever before, Terrakion takes neutral damage from Flying-type STAB, and Stratagem will inevitably get worn down
  • Resists Conkeldurr's Mach Punch
  • Burn immunity means going physically offensive faces fewer challenges
• Cons
  • Biggest con is Heavy-Duty Boots being pretty much required, unlike a Pokemon with just a 2x weakness to Stealth Rock
  • The above point makes it scared of Knock Off, which makes it harder to switch into Ferrothorn

Fire / Dragon

• Pros
  • Actually hits everything with STAB except for Primarina
  • Likely able to have two slots for additional utility, opening up more complex utility move combinations usually reserved for more defensive Pokemon
  • It's a Dragon type that's NOT weak to Ice and Fairy, and it's a Fire-type that's NOT weak to Water.
    • Doesn't fall over to Syclant, doesn't fall over to Sylveon, can switch in repeatedly into Toxapex's Scald
  • Burn immunity means going physically offensive faces fewer challenges
  • Takes neutral damage from anything Clefable can throw at it
• Cons
  • Key resistances get canceled with Fire / Dragon, as mentioned above, which could cut into longevity a bit
    • Counterpoint: Again, Dragon-type that doesn't fall over to Ice Beam or Moonblast is pretty neat.
  • Wants Heavy-Duty Boots a lot
    • Counterpoint: Heavy-Duty Boots is by no means a bad item, it can still function if it loses HDB, and it doesn't have to run HDB

Dark / Flying

• Pros
  • Awkward set of STABs to switch into, good neutral coverage
    • Destroying Arghonaut is always appreciated
  • Checks Ground-types: Excadrill and Equilibra have to use their Steel-type STAB moves
  • Checks Ghost types: Neutral damage from Aegislash's Steel STAB / Close Combat, resists Shadow Ball / Sneak, resists BOTH of Necturna's STABs, resists Dragapult's Hex, resists Pajantom's staple Spirit Shackle + Earthquake combination (plus, Ice Punch and Stone Edge are rarer than Toxic, Dragon Claw/Outrage, and Iron Tail)
  • Many Pokemon that force out Dark-types covered by Flying type - Conkeldurr can't Mach Punch it as easily, Jumbao hit super effectively
• Cons
  • Weak to Fairy
    • Counterpoint: Flying-type STAB makes Jumbao, Conkeldurr, Kommo-O, and Kerfluffle nervous. Other Fairy-types like Clefable and Sylveon can be threatened by sufficiently powerful secondary STABs.
  • Wants Heavy-Duty Boots a lot
    • Counterpoint: Heavy-Duty Boots is by no means a bad item, it can still function if it loses HDB, and it doesn't have to run HDB
  • Weak to Syclant's Ice Shard

Poison / Dragon

• Pros
  • Steel-types wall STAB coverage but it's a Dragon that Fairy-types hate, plus the coverage otherwise is really solid
  • Built-in poison chance on common Poison-type STABs helps shore up offenses
  • Absolutely stupid amount of resistances
  • A Dragon-type that doesn't fall over to Fairy-type STAB
  • Toxic immunity and Fire-type resistance means switching into Toxapex and Mollux is easy
  • First typing on this list that isn't weak to Stealth Rock - HDB not required
• Cons
  • Really doesn't want to be walled by Steel-types, so one of its moveslots will likely have to be dedicated to that
  • Weak to Syclant's Ice Shard
  • Clefable commonly runs Psyshock for Mollux, so not a perfect switch in (currently)

Poison / Dark

• Pros
  • Only one weakness to Ground
  • A Poison-type not completely helpless against Steel-types due to Dark-type coverage
  • Built-in poison chance on common Poison-type STABs helps shore up offenses
  • Toxic immunity is good, Psychic immunity lets it switch into Hatterene and Aurumoth with careful play
  • Ghost resist - resistance to Dragapult / Aegislash / Pajantom and resists both of Necturna's STABs
  • Takes neutral damage from anything Clefable can throw at it
• Cons
  • It may only have one weakness, but the Ghost resistance is really the only useful resistance - massive con for this concept ngl

Overall, I think all of these typings can shape CAP27 into an awesome supportive Pokemon by either strategically checking high-profile Pokemon in the metagame or having good neutral coverage in few moveslots.

 

[Amamama]

I have been kind of frustrated with the discussion, because it seems so hard to pin down a seizable amount of Typings, that are pro concept. There are just so many options flying around, that it gets hard remembering all the pros and cons of one specific typing.

Concept assessment already hinted at that, showing examples of offensive support all over the place, from Monotype Ice or Fairy to stuff like poison/fire etc.

I don’t think there is one best typing, that fits this concept, nor is there one best category of typings (except for typings that have good defensive utility, which is quite a broad definition)
Nevertheless I tried to pin down at least a set of Typings, that could be viable - as you might recognize in my feeble attempt at ranking typings.
While I did not find a specific range of typings, I think I happened upon something, that might help narrow down our search.

As stated in concept assessment, we want something, that has the ability to come in and force switches to perform our utility.
In my opinion, this is not as easily achieved by hitting everything neutrally, but by having a specific set of answers, that want to come in, so the opponent chooses to switch.
This could be done by choosing specific typings we want to Force out or - my favorite - determining typings for cap 27, that threaten either a set of defensive Pokémon or a set of offensive Pokemon.

There are typings that really mostly target one of each.

This in turn might help narrowing down the way we use our utility, as There are differences in what is helpful against different types of answers.

If we force out more passive mons, utility should be leaning to hazard control, healing or setting up an offensive threat by debuffing, tricking or setting screens, weathers, rooms. If we force in more offensively inclined mons, we should focus on spreading status or removing items.

Ive gathered some examples to show better what I mean by that.

Fire/Psychic:
This stab combo hits some of the more passive mons in the meta super effectively, like Ferrothorn, Pex, argonaut and Mollux
It’s best switch ins are offensive mons, like colossoil, dragapult and most notably hydrogen. While Colossoil doesn’t hate Most utility, the dragons really despise paralysis.
So if your team needs these two crippled cap 27 can perform this utility really well with Fire/psychic.
Another example typing would be fire grass, which targets a slightly different set of mons and has different switch ins.

On the other side there are typings, that force out specificly less passive mons.
For example Fire/Ice goes hard for
Corvi, Aegi, Dragapult, Hydreigon, Equilibra and Syclant, while especially bulky water and fire types would like to come in. These are heavily crippled by tricking or can be exploited for hazard control, healing etc.

These are just examples for how typing can target specific play styles. They most certainly aren’t the best representation of each category for cap 27, but good options to showcase my thoughts.

I also don’t want to sway anyone to either of these options as they’d both work with this concept.I just think this could be helpful in considering, which Pokémons/ play styles each of us hates the most as an opponent and how to target it with offensive utility options.

 

[Agile Turtle]

I largely agree with most people that Fire is a really good typing here. Fire is definitely a very good defensive typing that's routinely been hindered by stealth rock weakness for years, and it's definitely worth looking into right now especially with the addition of Heavy-Duty Boots. As an avid user of bulky WoW Charizard X in gen 6, I love the idea of Fire/Dragon. I also, really like Fire/Flying, but I think those two combos have seen enough conversation already.

I'm honestly surprised to see no mention of Ground/Flying. It's a pretty great defensive typing (As we've seen before on Landorus and Gliscor) with immunities to Ground and Electric, and resistance to Fighting, Bug and Poison, and it only has 2 weaknesses in Water and Ice. Offensively, it offers strong STABS and hits the meta largely unresisted, only resisted by Corviknight and Levitate mons like Rotom, Stratagem, and Equilibra. Corviknight is completely crippled by burn. Equilibra doesn't really like burns either due to lack of reliable recovery and being worn down more easily. Stratagem is frail and very easy to wear down, so it wouldn't like burns either, and it would absolutely hate to be paralyzed. Rotom and other bulky pokemon that would switchin hate losing their items. This typing also doesn't face any problems with bulky poisons because they're weak to its ground STAB. The amazing coverage offered here allows this mon to dedicate 2 moveslots to support without sacrificing its offensive potential. I think it's a really great typing that's been overlooked in this discussion.

 

[Sereg]

Okay. It's time that I contribute to this discussion.

I am going to start by looking at each single typing and seeing what I think should be noted about each one. Then I will mention some dual typings I like and why.

Rock: Rock has many resistances, which is good for coming in, but personally, I think staying in is also important. We want to actually do something instead of just switching in and out after all. Rock also has several weaknesses, including important ones and that makes it hard to stay in and means that switching in can end up more dangerous than the large resistance list implies. Sandstorm can buff the longevity we need, but relying on weather for something that switches a lot is not great. Speaking of sandstorm, it's also our only immunity. It is great offensively, but many of its moves have low accuracy, which is not great. Honestly, this one is not selling me. Would need a very synergistic combo, though admittedly that is not impossible.

Water: Traditionally a decent type offensively and defensively, it is unfortunately well prepared for offensively, losing that benefit. It resists Steel, which means Doom Desire, which is significant right now. Especially as it can be predicted. It only has two weaknesses, excluding Freeze Dry. I think that this would work well as long as it is paired with a type that has acceptable offenses to take out water resists.

Electric: Only one weakness, but unfortunately a major one. Offensively very good, though a type is immune to it. This may actually be good though as we don't want this Mon to just spam a high powered move. We want utility moves to be used. Also, immune to paralyses. Once again, Doom Desire resistance. I honestly think this is under-discussed and would be amazing with certain combos.

Grass: Immune to leech seed and powders, which unfortunately not that significant, but it's something. Also, not amazing offensively. Also, many weaknesses. On the plus side, resists two very important types. Grass is my favourite type and even I am not feeling it for this Mon.

Poison: Toxics that don't miss is nice for the concept, but not very significant. Immunity to poison status is better though. In general, a good defensive typing and one that allows black sludge which is great for defenses and means that if we get tricked a choice item, we probably cripple our opponent simultaneously. (We could also trick black sludge or toxic orb ourselves, though that strategy is extremely unlikely to be worth it. Just thought I'd mention it to cover everything I can think of.) Offensively, the fact that a type is immune to our STAB can once again be a good thing. Also, we auto-clear Toxic Spikes just by switching in, which is very pro-concept, if in unfortunately rendered less significant by the fact that a move would be necessary to clear more common hazards. Unfortunately, we have an important weakness. Overall, I think this is an extremely valuable typing, especially with a synergistic dual typing.

Psychic: I did mention that having a typing be immune to us may be a good thing, but being weak to knock off with little other defensive benefits is not great. Overall, I don't think this is what we are looking for.

Fire: There is a good reason people are excited about this typing. Immunity to burn, significant resistances and the existence of boots makes it an exciting typing. It is also offensively good. Longevity and switching are boh important for this Mon, so boots may be required. That may be bad as we end up item-locked, removing certain strategies. But it might also be good to ensure that we don't end up as a choice-locked sweeper or something too. Immunity to a status is also generally good. However, immunity to burn might actually be a bad thing here. A Mon that is normally good offensively but can have its offenses crippled by burn may be encouraged to run both offensive and utility moves so it has a way to be effective even after being burned. Which actually sounds like it's encouraging what we're going for. Overall, the hype is strong with this one and I have come to appreciate it more, but there are still typings I like even more.

Ground: Stealth rock resistance and electric immunity are both really good. The fact that a type and a common ability both provide immunity to it and yet it still is considered a great type offensively and good defensively is amazing. It's also immune to sandstorm, as little as that comes up. It's also immune to the most common source of paralyses. Just thinking about it now makes me realize this is really good and under-discussed.

Flying: Weak to Stealth rock but immune to every other hazard. Also immune to a type. With its resistances, it's not bad defensively and is considered a decent offensive type too. This is pretty good and very synergistic with some other types that work well for this concept.

Bug: It has a couple of nice resistances, but has many weaknesses, including to Stealth rock, and isn't great offensively either. Overall, I doubt this is the right choice.

Normal: Immunity to a significant type, but no other resistances. Doesn't hit anything for supereffective damage, but still considered offensively good in combination with certain other types, even though two types resist it and a third is immune, which could be good. Not terrible, but I think we can do better.

Ghost: Has two type immunities and is overall good offensively and defensively. Another type is immune which could actually be good. Especially enjoys it's opponents being statuses in a manner similar to poison does, but poison only appreciates one status condition unlike ghost. Also, we have access to ghost curse which could actually be helpful. It is a utility move, even if it is generally outclassed. In addition, it spinblocks, which is very pro-concept, especially if we want to set hazards, which is very much a utility thing to do. It is also immune to trapping and a Mon that wants to switch as much as this one will will hate to be trapped. Unfortunately, the most common trapping move is also supereffective on it. All this makes it my favourite single type.

Fighting: Resistance to Stealth rock and generally offensively and defensively decent. Not bad, but I think we can do better.

Steel: Defensively amazing despite an unfortunate important eakness. Immune to one hazard and resistant to another. Immune to a status. Also immune to sandstorm. Generally, really great defensively, but less than stellar offensively. Probably not a great choice unless synergistically paired with a strong offensive type.

Ice: Offensive amazing. Immune to freeze and hail which are basically irrelevant and otherwise tissue paper defensively. I will not lie. I hate this typing more than any other for this concept and think that almost any type combo with it will be a worse version of the iceless monotype. The few exceptions will pair better with a different type.

Dragon: Offensively and defensively really good and the immunity to it may once again be a good thing. A really solid option, even if it is not my favourite.

Dark: Pretty good offensively and defensively, with a type immunity. It is also immune to Prankster, but even if that were relevant, it might actually be a bad thing as resistance to prankster taunt makes offensive sets slightly less encouraged. While this is a small thing, especially as the meta doesn't really make that relevant, it does make me like it less, and I think we have better options anyway.

Fairy: A very good type offensively and defensively with a type immunity and its weaknesses tend to be more defensive. People know fairies are great. The main thing keeping people away from this typing is not wanting to overload the meta with powerful fairies, which is understandable. Overall, a great typing in a vacuum, but possibly not the best time for it.


Okay. Some type combos I think will be good:

Electric/Ghost Two typings that are good offensively and defensively, each of which is walled by different things, immune to two types, trapping and a status, spinblocking and access to unique utility options.

Fire/Ghost Similar to above but more likely to run boots and cannot have the offense cutting status.

Poison/Ghost Similar to above but Toxic spike absorbing.

Ground/Ghost Makes the status absorption slightly less reliable, but immune a third type.

Flying/Ghost As above, but less status absorption and more immunity to spikes.

Fire/Flying Basically boots locked, but immune to a status and a type that otherwise ruins fire's day.

Electric/Flying Defensively amazing and pretty good offensively too.

Ground/Flying Ground removes one of flying's biggest weaknesses, making a great combo.

Poison/Flying Generally pairing flying with something weak to ground works well.

Water/Ghost Two types that are great defensively and the overpreperation for water can be dealt with by ghost STAB.

Dragon/Poison Two great types and poison not only protects dragon from fairies defensively, but offensively too, without gaining a rock weakness (yes, I think this is just better than Dragon/Fire).

 

[Amamama]

Flying/ghost

As already said it’s wholly inferior to flying/dark as it only adds resists to poison except for Mollux, who uses this and bug, which flying already resists and immunity to normal, which isn’t relevant and fighting, which again flying already resists. Meanwhile dark trades being neutral to fighting and bug for a resist to ghost and adds a more interesting immunity as well as being immune to prankster. Also offensively flying dark is similar perfect neutral coverage and hits some typings harder.

Electric/flying
I guess this is my alternative to electric fire.p
While it’s hard Walled by several steel and electric types, these Pkm can’t really hurt it back and it’s got good overall coverage and again acces to electrics interesting movepool.
It also is only weak to ice and rock (good attacking types though), has a ground and paralysis immunity and avoids most hazards.
I kind of wants that fire/ground coverage but as I already mentioned having those few switch ins might be pro concept.
I guess we only should avoid making Zappos II, because that’d be boring and also we might get that bird back soon.

Fighting/psychic
I’ve changed my mind on this one.
Fighting/psychic balance each other out really well offensively and defensively. While psychic doesn’t resist itself anymore it isn’t hit as hard by dark or bug as well. This typing is weak to fairy ghost and flying. I really like how it interacts with the those typings, because many Pokémon representing those types are very offensively inclined and hate speed control, knock off or burn , while the Pokémon it forces out with its stab are mostly defensive. This gives it opportunity to cripple offensive threats that might make it hard for slower teams. Resisting rocks aids it’s utility and while the move pools aren’t great on utility attacks having access to drain punch could be good move compression.

Flying/ground
I think that having seen lando and gliscor shows its potential for this cap, although we would need to differentiate it quite heavily because especially lando will come back hard, when it comes back

Fire/psychic
very similar to fighting psychic in what it does. Hates entry hazards more but isn’t afraid of Fairy types

Electric/fighting
this one seems very interesting as it provides a good movepool utility wise with acces to para and recovery and hits many different threats really hard while being stopped by a small number of mons.
Outside of resisting rock, it’s resistances aren’t as good though an zereora running cc might compete very hard with it for a team slot.

 

[YellowAdminSilver]

Hi, I guess I'll try to get some words in about typings I feel are being overlooked. But first I'll respond to some of what has been discussed, since I feel we're now just trumpeting our own type combos into the void lol.

As this thread is coming to a close soon, I'd like to re-highlight the typings I like the best.
Fire / Dark
Fire / Flying
Fire / Dragon
Dark / Flying
Poison / Dragon
Poison / Dark

Since I'm just shamelessly plagiarizing this post I'll give my two cents about it first. Among these type combos, the one that intrigues me the most, which I've talked about a bunch before, is Fire/Flying. If we manage to give it tools to circumvent its item dependence (or hazard weakness, depending on how you wanna see it), I believe this typing has some of the highest potential of all combinations to make for a great offensive support.
I think I don't rate Dark as highly as some others, but out of the part-Dark combos that have been submitted, I probably rate Dark/Poison the highest. It's a bit awkward as a Poison-type that resists neither Fairy nor Fighting (nor U-Turn) but it has some good tools nonetheless and can threaten a good amount of important mons offensively, which is a big part of the success of this concept. Dark/Fire isn't bad by any means but I would give a slight edge to Poison, as Fire has some added annoying weaknesses to Fighting and Rock.
Dragon/Poison is one I hadn't really paid attention to but the arguments for it have been quite strong. I like the large amount of resistances, and the fact it retains Poison's switch-in opportunities on Toxic, does well against Mollux and all relevant Rotom formes, and absorbs Toxic Spikes.

On individual types, I think the two that have been greatly overlooked are Ground and Electric.

Ground

- Immunity to Electric gives ample switch-in opportunities, including on predicted Thunder Wave, allowing it to function as a partial status absorber
- Resistance to Rock, including Stealth Rock
- Offensively threatens a large amount of important Pokémon, including Bulletproof Equi, Excadrill, Mollux, Aegislash
- Its Water and Grass weaknesses are currently not common attacking types

- Has relatively few resistances (just three)
- Ice is currently an important attacking type
- Its STAB has a common immunity in Flying, including notable top threat Corviknight

Someone just above me made some good arguments for Ground/Flying, so I feel obliged to quote here since a lot of it applies to most possible Ground typings:

I'm honestly surprised to see no mention of Ground/Flying. It's a pretty great defensive typing (As we've seen before on Landorus and Gliscor) with immunities to Ground and Electric, and resistance to Fighting, Bug and Poison, and it only has 2 weaknesses in Water and Ice. Offensively, it offers strong STABS and hits the meta largely unresisted, only resisted by Corviknight and Levitate mons like Rotom, Stratagem, and Equilibra. This typing also doesn't face any problems with bulky poisons because they're weak to its ground STAB. The amazing coverage offered here allows this mon to dedicate 2 moveslots to support without sacrificing its offensive potential. I think it's a really great typing that's been overlooked in this discussion.

Electric

- Immunity to Paralysis status provides it with situational switch-in opportunities
- Steel STAB is common enough offensively that resisting Steel is relevant
- Only one innate weakness gives it decent defensive potential
- In a post-dexit meta that lacks the usual Ground-type hazard setters, Electric ironically has great matchups against common hazard control such as Corviknight, Mandibuzz and Arghonaut

- Being weak to a top attacking type in Ground is bad, Electric STAB providing it a free switch is even worse
- Only two resistances, including itself, make it rely heavily on a secondary type for defensive value
- Steel resistances aren't hard to come by, as seen in every Fire-type and bulky Water

I've talked about some combinations of these before so I'll only advocate for one in particular, but I do feel that possible Electric combinations are being criminally overlooked. I think there's potential for something like Electric/Ground, Poison, Fire, Grass, or Flying, if somebody can make a good analysis of it.
On to my preferred combo:

Ground/Poison

- Hits the entire relevant tier for neutral damage at worst, save for three clearly defined mons (Corviknight, Levitate Equilibra, Levitate Stratagem)
- Hits several important threats for super effective damage, including Clefable, Bulletproof Equilibra, Mollux, Aegislash...
- Corviknight and Equilibra are both susceptible to offensive support options (Knock Off, burn, Trick) while Stratagem is frail and lacks recovery
- Blocks Volt Switch and Thunder Wave, absorbs Toxic Spikes, resists U-Turn and Stealth Rock
- Five resistances and one immunity
- Offensive check to Zeraora and Terrakion, which offense appreciates

x Near helpless versus aforementioned Corv and Equi, plus Air Balloom variants of Aegislash and Excadrill (is this still a thing?). Keep in mind the most relevant of these encourage the use of certain offensive support options as mentioned above
x Both STAB options have common immunities
x Therefore heavily prediction reliant and an ineffective user of Choice items. Some people view this as a plus but I'm not so sure
x Ground STAB lacks "dual-purpose"/utility attacking options

In sum, if I had to make a top whatever with the typings that have received at least some discussion, I think it'd look something like this:
- Ground/Poison
- Fire/Flying
- Fire/Electric
- Dark/Poison
- Dragon/Poison

This should change if someone comes up with a great Electric combo, so please please do!

 

[Sereg]

Speaking of great electric types, one I forgot to mention is electric/water. Water STAB scares off ground's switch-in's and electric takes away water's weakness to electric. It also quad resists Doom Desire meaning predictable switch in opportunities. One of the few ice resistances too. Retains a status immunity. Other than ground, it's only weakness is grass, which is not a common attacking type.

 

[MrPanda]

I was a little out of the picture lately for personal reasons, but now I intend to remain more active during the process. Anyway, I have been following the discussion assiduously and, as the thread closes, I think it is time to decide how we are going to proceed from now on.

An indisputably crucial part for the successful of this concept is the capability of many switchins that CAP27 needs to support his team, as well as the possibility of switching in and out at specific times and pokemon throughout the battle.

This is a point that has specifically caught my attention during that time. With the amazing Mx post we had contact with the most threatening and popular types in the current metagame, among which I would like to highlight Ground, Fighting, Dark and Fire as the most relevant types within the highest tier layers. And, therefore, some types which CAP27 would like resist.

Additionally, there has been considerable discussion around less popular but equally threatening types within the metagame. The main examples being Fairy, Ghost and Ice which, although they do not have as many users among the high level of the metagame, still have specific users that could pose a considerable threat to CAP27 teammates.

From that point of view, I believe it is time to decide what we want CAP27 to be able to handle and what we want it to be vulnerable to. So, I would like to open some typings, which showed popular and/or called my attention during the thread, for analysis.

Fire / Flying

Weak:
Resists: Ground, Fighting, Fire, Fairy
Neutral: Dark, Ghost, Ice

It has a relatively good matchup against these types, having three resistances, one immunity and no weaknesses. Even with hdb it still is very haunted by rocks. It have extremely powerful physical and special moves of both sides. Decent offensive coverage, but it is almost totally walled by Rock-types. Great offensive utility opitions too. Overall a interesting typing, really one of my favorites.

Fire / Dragon

Weak: Ground
Resists: Fire
Neutral: Fighting, Dark, Ghost, Ice, Fairy

Situation similar to above. Great moves, coverage and offensive utility. It has less problems with rocks, but only has a resistance to Fire-types and is weak to the most common type in the metagame, neutral damage from the others. It is not something to be discarded, but neither is it ideal.

Fire / Dark

Weak: Ground, Fighting
Resists: Fire, Dark, Ghost, Ice
Neutral: Fairy

Same as above, but has a weaker offensive coverage. It also doesn't have many options for powerful moves and utility on the Dark side. On the other hand, there is the infamous Knock Off STAB. Again, rocks suck. Unfortunately, it is weak to the two most popular types in the metagame, but it resists the other four and takes neutral damage from Fairy-types. Overall it has its drawbacks, but it is certainly an interesting typing.

Fire / Normal

Weak: Ground, Fighting
Resists: Fire, Ghost, Ice, Fairy
Neutral: Dark

Fire/Dark feelings. It loses Knock Off, gains Rapid Spin. It keeps the Fairy resistance, loses the Dark one.

Fire / Electric

Weak: Ground
Resists: Fire, Ice, Fairy
Neutral: Fighting, Dark, Ghost

Incredible offensive typing. Useful and powerful STABs. It has contact and immunity to two status conditions naturally. It has the weakness to standard Fire-types rocks. It has interesting resistances to Fire, Ice and Fairy-types. But, in the other hand, without an immunity ability, the quad Ground weakness should become a boring problem to deal with, preventing it from switching in things it otherwise could easily do (Syclant and Kyurem come to mind now). The possibility of dealing with Water-types is really very good, but I don't think it's worth it. Electric doesn't really add much defensively, which for me should be the focus of the CAP27 typing stage. In short, I think it's just a pure Fire-type made worse.

Fire / Ghost

Weak: Ground, Dark, Ghost
Resists: Fighting, Fire, Ice, Fairy
Neutral:

I don't like this one. While combining Fire and Ghost gives us an incredible offensive utility, Ghost also presents us with a Trojan horse: weakness to Knock Off. Being a Fire-type gives it a certain dependency on the use of hdb, in order to mitigate the damage of Stealth Rock and prevent the opponent from wearing it out too quickly. That alone makes Knock Off a problem. Add a Ghost-type and you will have a Knock-Offobic. Considering that some Fighting-types use Knock Off as coverage, CAP27 would have a hard time safely switching in they without fear of taking a predicted Knock Off in the face. And, this way, one of the advantages of Ghost-type is gone. Nevertheless it has nice resistances and one (tricking) immunity, although also is weak to the popular girl, as well to Dark and Ghost-type.

Poison / Dragon

Weak: Ground, Ice
Resists: Fighting, Fire
Neutral: Dark, Ghost, Fairy

I don't have much to talk about this. Poison is an amazing defensive type (you can't ignore toxic immunity) and Dragon is a very good offensive type. Fairy-types are not a problem here thanks to the Poison side. On the other hand, it has a hard time dealing with Steel-types that wall it almost completely. Weakness to Ground-type sucks, but Fighting resistance is nice.

Poison / Ground

Weak: Ground, Ice
Resists: Fighting, Fairy
Neutral: Dark, Ghost, Fire

Basically a Poison/Dragon that deals with Steel-types. It also keeps the resistance to Fairy and loses the Fire one. But of the Poison variants is my favorite.

Poison / Dark

Weak: Ground
Resists: Dark, Ghost
Neutral: Fighting, Fire, Ice, Fairy

The typical case of one-weakness typing. Offensively it has a interesting matchup. Fairy-types which would resist Dark moves are dealt by the Poison ones, Steel-types which would absorb Poison moves can be dealt by the Dark ones. Being weak to a single type is certainly a defensive advantage, but in itself does not guarantee a truly versatile defensive utility. Dark practically nullifies the main resistances of Poison-type (Fighting and Fairy), but also adds resistance to Dark and Ghost moves. And we can't forget the great Knock Off.

Poison / Normal

Weak: Ground
Resists: Ghost, Fairy
Neutral: Fighting, Dark, Fire, Ice

Here we have a situation similar to the Fire-type counterpart. It is basically a Poison/Dark. Loses Knock Off, gains Rapid Spin. Loses the resistance to Dark, keeps the Fairy one. Also, it is entirely walled by Steel-types.

Water / Ghost

Weak: Dark, Ghost
Resists: Fighting, Fire, Ice
Neutral: Ground, Fairy

Ghost mitigates the adversity that Water-types face in the current metagame. Adds weaknesses to Dark and the Ghost-type itself, but also an immunity to Fighting. It gives us the possibility of a spinblock to help the team wear out the opponent (which is pro-concept), but also leaves us vulnerable to Knock Off. In short, a well-balanced typing. I think it would be a good one for us to follow.

Water / Poison

Weak: Ground
Resists: Fighting, Fire, Ice, Fairy
Neutral: Dark, Ghost

Incredible defensive typing. Although it has weakness to Ground moves, it still retains extremely useful resistances to Fairy, Fighting, Fire and Ice (well, Freeze Dry exists). Offensively, however, he doesn't have much to offer. Although it has access to powerful moves and great offensive utility, the metagame is infested with Steel-types and also very well prepared for Water-type attackers. Still, it would be an interesting path to follow.

Flying / Dark

Weak: Ice, Fairy
Resists: Ground, Dark, Ghost
Neutral: Fighting, Fire

Flying nulls the weakness to Fighting and adds an immunity to Ground. Still, it retains some specific weaknesses to Fairy and Ice-types. Offensively, it doesn't stand out as much, it has some powerful moves and good utility options on the Flying side and Knock Off on the Dark side. Definitely not one of my favorites, but still a good option to go.

Flying / Ground

Weak: Ice
Resists: Ground, Fighting
Neutral: Fire, Dark, Ghost, Fairy

Flying and Ground are two very good types both offensively and defensively. He has immunity to Ground and resists Fighting, but he also has a marked weakness to Ice (which is not very attractive in a meta with types like Kyurem and Syclant, but you can't always beat them all, right?).

Normal / Ghost

Weak: Dark
Resists: Fighting, Ghost
Neutral: Ground, Fire, Ice, Fairy

Here's another one-weakness type case. But in this case, it relies on immunities to sell itself. Furthermore, there is not much more to add, as it has only a few not very useful resistances. Offensively, it has a good type coverage. Normal covers Ghost flaws and vice versa. It is a interesting way to proceed, but I think we can do better.

Normal / Fighting

Weak: Fighting, Fairy
Resists: Dark, Ghost
Neutral: Ground, Fire, Ice

It is immune to Ghost and resists to Dark. It is weak to Fighting and Fairy. I really don't see how it can be useful for our concept. Outside the Normal + Fighting + Knock Off coverage, it doesn't have many relevant resistances and it's weak to some very common types. I would still like to see some more arguments about it. Yes, and which it does not involve Normal + Fighting + Knock Off please.

This type approach is somewhat generic and superficial. However, it saves a lot of work to focus on some main types that we intend to check or resist within the tier instead of considering all types within the game, as some have not shown much importance in the metagame. It is also a great way to make things more direct and objective now that the thread is approaching ending.

PS: I may have missed some other interesting typing, but I preferred to focus on the ones that really caught my attention and not dwell too long, since I didn't have much time to write this and also do these things on my cell phone sucks. Anyway, if I skipped a typing that you think deserves attention, state your argument that I will certainly read and maybe we can reach a consensus. We are coming close to a conclusion for typing and I think now is the time to focus on what we really intend to follow, instead of opening more paths.

 

[theotherguytm]

It also doesn't have many options for powerful moves and utility on the Dark side. On the other hand, there is the infamous Knock Off STAB.

This is my issue with Dark. People seem to be pushing for it for the Ghost resist and STAB Knock Off, but when you look beyond that:
1. Basically every Ghost in the game has a way to hit Dark Super Effectively. Dragapult gets U-Turn, Aegislash gets Close Combat, Gengar gets Focus Blast, etc. Dark may only have 3 weaknesses, but they are the three worst weaknesses we could ask for: Weak to the mighty Fairy, Weak to Fighting, the most common coverage type in the game, and Weak to Bug ie: Takes tons from random U-turns. Dark loses any defensive utility we might aspire to.
2. Dark does not have a deep movepool beyond Knock Off. Knock Off seems to be blinding people to the fact that Dark types generally do not come with loads of utility attached. And if they do, they just prefer to click Knock Off almost every time. Again, see Bisharp who has a surprisingly deep support pool but never uses it.
On paper (Bisharp) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- Knock Off
- Taunt/Iron Head
In practice (Bisharp) @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
As Panda also points out:

has a weaker offensive coverage.

Dark doesn't offer much coverage-wise. So... What does it offer? Clickknock.exe is not the point of this project. So I think some better ideas are needed as to why we want Dark. Personally, I would much rather have Knock without STAB, than be stuck with a typing where we mess our pants trying to switch in on anything that might carry U-turn or Fighting coverage.

 

[Mx]

This is my issue with Dark. People seem to be pushing for it for the Ghost resist and STAB Knock Off, but when you look beyond that:
1. Basically every Ghost in the game has a way to hit Dark Super Effectively. Dragapult gets U-Turn, Aegislash gets Close Combat, Gengar gets Focus Blast, etc. Dark may only have 3 weaknesses, but they are the three worst weaknesses we could ask for: Weak to the mighty Fairy, Weak to Fighting, the most common coverage type in the game, and Weak to Bug ie: Takes tons from random U-turns. Dark loses any defensive utility we might aspire to.
2. Dark does not have a deep movepool beyond Knock Off. Knock Off seems to be blinding people to the fact that Dark types generally do not come with loads of utility attached. And if they do, they just prefer to click Knock Off almost every time. Again, see Bisharp who has a surprisingly deep support pool but never uses it.

While Dark-type is not really my favorite pick, there are many more reasons for why Bisharp doesn't use its support movepool than simply because its typing is inherently bad at support:

1-Its low speed means it really wants to use two different Dark-type moves, Sucker Punch and Knock Off.
2-With high attack and priority, Sword Dance is a very powerful option.
3-Defiant is a very powerful offensive ability which doesn't synergize well with support moves.
4-While Dark/Steel offers many useful resistances, its mediocre defenses and lack of recovery mean it lacks defensive utility in practice.

This kind of Pokemon should serve as an example of what we shouldn't do, but these problems can be easily addressed in later stages and are not inherent to its typing. Knock Off is a very powerful and spammable move, but if the opponent has something that counters you, ideally you use Knock Off only on their first switch to cripple it and on the second time, you're better off using support moves to either aid your team or further cripple your switch-in. Additionally, while a Dark-type can't fully counter Ghost-types with additional coverage, it can still check them with the right prediction and deters them from spamming their STAB moves, which makes them much more easier to check with other teammates. All in all, I think you are really underestimating the utility that a Dark-type with the right tools can provide to a team .

 

[quziel]

I'd like to make one final post and then summarize some of my favorite typings and why I like them.

First, a final submission;
Electric / Steel

So, lets first cover what this brings us over well, pure electric. Resistances, resistances for literal days:

Electric/Steel:
Weaknesses: Fighting, Fire, Ground
Resistances: Bug, Dragon, Electric, Fairy, Flying, Grass, Ice, Normal, Psychic, Rock, Steel
Immunities: Poison

Like, this is a legitimately ludicrous spread of resists, but more importantly, what threats does it allow us to pivot into, what does it allow us to theoretically counter (based on typing alone). Clefable, Corviknight, Aegislash, Dragapult, and Hydreigon are all top rank threats that we can theoretically bring this mon in on one of their STAB attacks. Realistically Aegislash and Pult are going to be clicking their Ghost moves most of the time, and Clef, Corvi, and Hydrei can all threaten us using coverage, but the ability to come into these STABs and theoretically check them is quite useful. Syclant and Kyurem are additional very valuable resists, but again terrify us with their Ground coverage, which again, I will argue can be pro-concept; we can come in on a very large number of threats, but not 100% safely, which further helps cement us as an Offensive Pokemon that, despite having a huge number of resists, is still easily KO'd, and thus sorta forced out of a Defensive role.

Offensively the Steel typing is sorta meh, and doesn't really accentuate the Electric typing that much outside of punishing Clefable and Jumbao. However, Electric typing is still legitimately great offensively, letting us punish Corviknight, Mandibuzz, Tomohawk, Toxapex, and Arghonaut very effectively; punishing defensive walls with our main STAB is always relevant for an Offensive mon. Now for the support side electric is known for its wide variety of secondary effect causing attacks; look at Zapdos with its Discharge.

-----------------------------

Now to briefly discuss my favorite typings and explicitly advocate for them.

Fire / Dragon

So, back to the Zard-X typing. The legitimately stupid neutral coverage this typing offers is definitely its best aspect, well, that, and the variety of really cool utility attacks. Because of the sheer silliness of this neutral coverage I think this is one of the typings that does the best job at sidestepping 4MSS; there are basically 0 attacks that a Fire/Dragon needs to run in order to supplement its coverage, especially with Heatran taking a vacation in Alola. Because of the Slot-Efficiency that this typing offers with its stabs, I think some slot-inefficient options suddenly creep into viability (eg Wish Jumbao only got to run Wish last gen because of how efficient Z-Moonblast + HP Ground was). Defensively it offers a very useful Fire and Electric resistance, letting you use it to beat up Mollux, Zeraora, and Rotom-Heat, and situationally pivot into the tier's Steel types, aka Corv and Aegis. Steel, Grass, and Bug resists are less relevant, though cushioning U-turn Damage, and letting you switch into the one time Aegis clicked Iron Head is nice. Overall the ability to sidestep concerns about 4MSS, a good set of resists, and good utility options make me really like this typing.

Dark / Flying

Another case of legitimately great neutral coverage, this time a tiny bit worse, but only being resisted by Ttar and Bisharp is still pretty damn good. Utility attacks are a bit iffier here, with the standouts being Knock Off and Snarl (holy low BP though). Still, it brings a really solid resist to a few very relevant attacks, eg Ghost, Ground, Dark, letting you take on Dragapult, Aegislash, and Colossoil sorta (again, in a check rather than counter manner, which is what is relevant for an offensive mon). Weaknesses to Fairy and Ice do hurt, as both are very relevant typings in the current meta (see TP Clef + Kyu), but every mon has its weaknesses. Overall thanks to very relevant resistances, very solid offensive coverage, and the option to run a few very cool utility moves makes this a nice typing.

Water / Ghost

Now, this typing differs from the previous two in that it has decidedly non-perfect coverage; Hydreigon, aka the meta god, trivially comes in on you, and Mollux + Pex don't have a huge amount to fear from your STAB combo, but I'd argue this again is concept-favorable; look at DPP Celebi which used a utility move (Thunderwave) to cripple the Dragon types that came into its Leaf Storm. In that same manner this typing is easily set up to benefit from accentuating its STAB combo with a utility move; Burn, Paralysis, and if we can make it work Poison, all would help a ton in wearing down its answers. In terms of defensive stuff, this typing is legit great, giving a relevant Fire resist (hello Mollux), and, more importantly, a very relevant Ice resist, as every single offensive team needs an answer to Syclant, which this happily provides. Resisting Kyurem's Ice beam is also nice, even if Freeze dry beats you up. Finally, a fighting resist brings you a solid answer to Conkeldurr. Overall, a STAB combo that is perfectly completed by utility options, super solid defensive typing, and cool utility moves from the water side make this one of my fave options.

Electric / Flying

So, Zapdos typing. This offers a lot of cool resists, though the relevant ones it offers are Ground, Steel, Flying, and Fighting really. Its legitimately the perfect Corviknight switchin, and any mon that punishes an S rank defensive mon is one step closer to finding its place on an offensive team. Outside of that you are a situational switchin to Aegis, a sorta stalemate vs Libra, and a really solid Conk answer. Really cool defensive typing even if it doesn't have a huge amount of targets atm. Offensively you have two great typings that both have great coverage, but don't really mesh that well together outside of letting you pressure Corvi (from what it adds to flying) or letting you pressure Jumbao (from what it adds to electric). This sorta makes me worry about 4MSS, but well, Zapdos made it work by just having a Para chance on its main STAB, and on contact, so I think we have a lot of room here. Overall cool stabs, great defensive typing, and again, electric's bundle of attacks with secondary effects.

Electric / Dark

So, this is sorta mixing a lot of cool things together in terms of giving you a really solid Ghost answer, again a super solid Corvi switchin (barring body press), and a mon you can hard switch into the tier's fat waters. Combining those three aspects means this typing could pretty easily find a place on a team, which is damn nice, especially considering that it gains Electric's great utility attacks, and a few of Dark's utility attacks. Overall its coverage is pretty damn good, though Dark does struggle to get SE hits vs the Ground types that make Electric sad, and Jumbao is a noted wall. Between unique defensive typing, access to a ton of utility + damage options, and good, but not stupid good coverage this is an option I like.

Elec/steel is obvs up here, but felt it would be redundant to talk about it twice in one post.
---------------------------------

Edit: Commenting on stuff, and don't wanna double post:

Responding to posts

Agreeing with Mx that Bisharp is a bad example here. Yes it has a super good typing, yes it has a super deep utility movepool. But again, you won't use utility options if you have Defiant + Great attack + Sucker Punch + Swords Dance. Utility options are strong, but like, they're not strong enough to outweigh those plusses.

Dark doesn't offer much coverage-wise. So... What does it offer? Clickknock.exe is not the point of this project. So I think some better ideas are needed as to why we want Dark. Personally, I would much rather have Knock without STAB, than be stuck with a typing where we mess our pants trying to switch in on anything that might carry U-turn or Fighting coverage.

Dark absolutely offers a ton coverage-wise. Hitting Aegis + Dragapult SE while hitting literally every single S and A rank mon but Clefable, Hydreigon, Terrakion, Tomohawk, Conkeldurr, Colossoil, and Jumbao (which really is barely A rank) for neutral damage is great.

Snip

I think that focusing on raw typings over specific threats is a bit shallow and doesn't really give a good picture of what a typing can achieve in the context of the meta. Eg as said in the post Normal / Ghost resists Fighting, but considering that the fighting types in hte meta are Conkeldurr, Terrakion, and Arghonaut, you don't really deal with them that well. Conkeldurr is just going to stay in, tank the hit and KO with Knock, Argh is similarly unthreatened by Normal / Ghost coverage and happily clicks Knock, and Terrakion you admittedly do beat if you come in on CC given that its mostly banded, but not really considering edge. Also you missed a few typings, eg fire/dragon doesn't have electric listed, nor grass or bug.

Speaking of great electric types, one I forgot to mention is electric/water. Water STAB scares off ground's switch-in's and electric takes away water's weakness to electric. It also quad resists Doom Desire meaning predictable switch in opportunities. One of the few ice resistances too. Retains a status immunity. Other than ground, it's only weakness is grass, which is not a common attacking type.

I do love Electric/Water as a typing, and it does a lot of stuff that's pro concept, but its def competing against Krill and Rotom-W, both of which occupy the general role of Offensive Support on their team (well, Krill is more like offensive pivot, but that's a very similar role). There def is room for another, but you gotta keep in mind that these are sorta mutually exclusive roles on a team, you aren't gonna run both, so we'd have to really differentiate from those two. Because of the lacking design space due to needing to be radically different from both Krill and Rotom-W I'm a bit iffy here.

Ground/Poison

- Hits the entire relevant tier for neutral damage at worst, save for three clearly defined mons (Corviknight, Levitate Equilibra, Levitate Stratagem)
- Hits several important threats for super effective damage, including Clefable, Bulletproof Equilibra, Mollux, Aegislash...
- Corviknight and Equilibra are both susceptible to offensive support options (Knock Off, burn, Trick) while Stratagem is frail and lacks recovery
- Blocks Volt Switch and Thunder Wave, absorbs Toxic Spikes, resists U-Turn and Stealth Rock
- Five resistances and one immunity
- Offensive check to Zeraora and Terrakion, which offense appreciates

x Near helpless versus aforementioned Corv and Equi, plus Air Balloom variants of Aegislash and Excadrill (is this still a thing?). Keep in mind the most relevant of these encourage the use of certain offensive support options as mentioned above
x Both STAB options have common immunities
x Therefore heavily prediction reliant and an ineffective user of Choice items. Some people view this as a plus but I'm not so sure
x Ground STAB lacks "dual-purpose"/utility attacking options

I'm a bit iffy on Ground/Poison because well, it has surprisingly few relevant resists, that is, it realistically comes in on Clefable's Moonblast, Mollux's Sludge Bomb, Rotom-H's Volt Switch (likely fails to threaten it out), Terrakion, and Zeraora as a whole, Conkeldurr's Drain Punch (Conk would likely be able to stay in and Facade or Knock), and Jumbao's Moonblast. Like, this is def something we could fix by just giving it pretty great bulk on one side, but its a surprisingly short list. If Fairy types were still dominating the meta this would be great, but considering that Kerf is sorta meh, and Bao is only really clinging onto viability due to Scarf, it struggles. I would include some of the more passive high ranked mons, eg Corvi and Mandibuzz, but I can't see this hugely threatening them. I guess it deals with offensive mons pretty well, but the fact that its completely and hopelessly walled by a lot of the high rank defensive mons leaves me iffy (this could def all change in the movepool stage, but w/e).

 

[Agile Turtle]

I'd like to throw my support under Electric/Steel. It's definitely a lot less offensively inclined than most other types mentioned in this thread have been, but the sheer amount of resistances this type offers (11 resistances, 1 immunity) really aid us in letting CAP27 switch in. And offensively, jut based on STABs alone, coverage isn't too bad, mainly resisted by: any Electric type, Equilibra, Excadrill, Smokomodo, Seismitoad, Gastrodon, Ferrothorn. A lot of these mons (Zeraora, Equilibra, Excadrill, Ferrothorn, etc) hate burns, a lot of them hate item manipulation, and a lot of the bulky switchins wouldn't like to be toxiced. I won't go much farther than this because I think quziel made a great post about it above me, but I think it's good to emphasize that Electric/Steel is immune to both paralysis and poison.

I also wanna support Electric/Flying. It's a really good defensive typing with key resists to Fighting, Birdspam, and a Ground immunity. Zapdos has show time and time again that this typing really works defensively, even with it's middling bulk, Zapdos has successfully run support sets throughout many generations because of its good typing. Also worth noting in regards to quziel's mention of 4MSS, Zapdos doesn't have a good flying STAB, so it didn't run one. It mainly ran Heat Wave. Heat Wave being good for coverage, but also dealing with things like Bisharp that would try to switch in to its defog. Offensively, Electric/Flying is still pretty good coverage, arguably better than Electric/Fire coverage, mainly only being resisted by Electric types, and those Ground/Steel mons again.