CAP 28 - Part 4 - Primary Ability Discussion

[20Yelram02]

Should CAP28's ability take an active role or passive role in preventing pivoting?
By the given definition, passive abilities seem to target VoltTurn a lot more than Tport. Active abilities that rely on opponents' moves don't have as much of a bearing on play as the passive ones, which apply universally. A way to summarise this might be; passive=reactionary (denying/harassing pivots), active=threatening a pivot or switch in. I'd go for passive if we weren't targeting Tport specifically. There aren't any ways to harass the pivot or deny the Tport in terms of Ability (that I can think of). The active abilities seem much more promising. Stakeout increasing damage against a switch in, Tinted Lens denying safe switches, Punk Rock increasing damage (again), NGas denying Natural Cure and Regenerator, etc. I may have interpreted the roles incorrectly, feedback is always appreciated.

To what extent should CAP28's ability benefit CAP28 more than it punishes CAP28's opponent?
This just seems like a "decide now, NGas or not". Of the abilities mentioned above, three of benefitted CAP28, one simply punished the opponent. It is a bit of a difficult call, CAP28 definitely could use an ability that removes offensive weaknesses or just smacks the opponent. However, NGas is a big opportunity. It evens the playing field for both mons, providing big advantages over less offensive mons that rely on their ability for crucial aspects of their gameplay (Slowtwins, Blissey, Pex) and those are some of the mons we are targeting with CAP28. Really, I don't know, I think it could go either way and both sides deserve much consideration.

-I don't see why Tinted Lens is a good concept ability, the only pokemon in our switch-ins that resist any of our STABs is Rotom-H resisting bug, which means it's mostly a wasted ability against what we should get in against. I think any other damage boosting ability would be better.

Neither Bug nor Dragon have a good offensive spread. Dragon is weak to Steel and ineffective against Fairy. Bug is weak to plenty, but the important bit is that it also hits Steel and Fairy for less damage. Tinted Lens would be a way to patch up some offensive weaknesses of the type.

 

[Magic Mayhem Maiden]

Neither Bug nor Dragon have a good offensive spread. Dragon is weak to Steel and ineffective against Fairy. Bug is weak to plenty, but the important bit is that it also hits Steel and Fairy for less damage. Tinted Lens would be a way to patch up some offensive weaknesses of the type.

I can kinda see Tinted Lens being used for denying safe switch-ins, but I feel it is a little anti-concept. None of the switch-ins (ones we should pressure/be safe against) are Steel nor Fairy, and there are some c&c that would be less effective at checking CAP28, such as Azumarill, Toxapex, Dragapult. Assuming that CAP28 would be faster than the switch-ins with pivot moves, we would be hitting the pivot instead of the pokemon to replace them. I don't think CAP28 would be successful if it did not add additional pressure to the intended switch-ins with the ability.

Honestly, this concept is making my head hurt thinking about it.

 

[reachzero]

1. Should CAP28's ability take an active role or passive role in preventing pivoting?

The most important part of threatening pivots is presenting an immediate threat: since we are weak to Stealth Rock and unlikely to use Rocky Helmet, there are already Pokemon (Ferrothorn, Amoonguss) that are vastly better at punishing U-turn and Volt Switch than we possibly can be, and the value of doing so considering how few of our target Pokemon actually use these moves is questionable. We are much better of focusing on what we do one we get in against a slow pivot--the idea is to either deny significant benefits of being a pivot right away (Neutralizing Gas) or more likely to constrain the opponent's options by presenting a powerful enough threat to demand a specific response (i.e. something from our Threats and Counters list). This means I prefer an offensively oriented ability, whether that is straight attack boosting or something like Rattled.

2. To what extent should CAP28's ability benefit CAP28 more than it punishes CAP28's opponent?

This is a false dichotomy. If CAP28 benefits from the presence of pivots, it is punishing them. I think the question is meant to ask if we should be choosing a more specific Ability that is stronger and more useful against pivotspam teams than against other teams, and if that is the case, I think the answer is probably yes. I would prefer to have something that does not eliminate every faster Pokemon as an answer, like Tinted Lens or Stakeout does, or which has a broad-ranging effect that impacts absolutely every matchup in every game, like Magic Guard. I do think offensive boosting abilities are on the table, and even some of our best options, but I would prefer ones that are stronger against slower, bulkier teams (like Contrary).

 

[Voltage]

Alright everyone, great discussion so far. I'd like to thank you all for parsing through my questions despite how very "abstract" they can be sometimes. I'm very glad to see the varied discussion and I'd like to continue along with some more prompted questions.

This next set of questions will focus a bit more on the previous stages, and allow us to build of a couple things taht have been presented both by community members and other topic leaders.

1. To what extent should CAP28's ability account for setbacks with respect to typing, if any setbacks exist at all?
   
   I've noticed a common trend of disdain for our typing Bug/Dragon, as it is, in the words of some, "anti-concept". I'd like to explore a little bit more the relationship between our typing and our ability, if you all don't mind. This question is pretty straightforward, I think. I know there's been discussion on whether or not CAP28's ability should be more more focused on helping it be successful rather than targeting opponents, and this is just another way of allowing us to explore ways in which was can allow CAP28 to accomplish the task it was given of being a "speedbump".
   
   
2. Are there any abilities that allow us to give ourselves more potential switch ins as referenced in Mx's closing post?
   
   Mx raised some interesting questions in their final post in the threats discussion, and now that we've explored a lot of general ability ideas, I want to narrow the focus just a little bit. Our current switch ins list is quite limited, with Safe switches being only two Pokemon, and the Situation switch ins being six total Pokemon. Are there abilities that, while fitting with the concept, allow us to move some of our "Pressures" into "switch ins", or our "Not Safe Switch ins" into "guaranteed switch ins"?
   
   
3. Are there any abilities that allow us to effectively accomplish Mx's proposed goal in the second point of their closing post?
   
   For reference, that point is "Being capable of switching safely into Slowbro and Slowking, immediately forcing out Blissey, and pressuring Steel-types should be our main priorities in order to achieve our concept" As such, are there any abilities that immediately help us with solving this goal? It should be noted that I don't expect the Venn Diagram of the abilities for Question 2 to be the same as the abilities for Questions 3.

Keep up the great discussions, and please don't hesitate to message me if you'd like some clarifications on any of these questions! Again, as a reminder, I'll be opening up official ability submissions about 36 hours from this post, so keep some of your submissions simmering in your heads!

 

[Amamama]

To what extent should CAP28's ability account for setbacks with respect to typing, if any setbacks exist at all?

Much of what makes or typing awkward comes down to two things.

Firstly we are bad at dealing with passive damage. This we have trouble coming in on our would be switch ins, because they are able to severely cripple us with Status.
Simultaneously we are very susceptible to entry hazards, which gives our switch ins another option to pressure us by threatening to remove our Heavy duty Boots, which we are very likely to use, given our typing.

Secondly we have a very awkward STAB combo, that will make it very hard to exploit situations, where we force out one of our switch ins on STAB alone, making us essentially a momentum drain for our own team.
Another problem we face offensively is, that we are unlikely to be able to threaten a OHKO on any of our most important targets. This is especially daunting, since they might just try to stomach the hit and bring in a counter with Teleport, resulting in us being forced out, while they are able to heal off damage or Status.
If we aren’t able to threaten a KO the next time they switch in, we are essentially dead weight to our team imo.

Both issues can to some extent be dealt with in stats and movepool.

I think the offensive aspect is overall more important, since we are banking on being an offensive threat.
I also think that it is much easier dealt with in other stages, than the defensive aspect, since there isn’t much to be done about passive damage in stats or movepool.

Are there any abilities that allow us to give ourselves more potential switch ins as referenced in Mx's closing post?

Abilities that help absorb or deny passive damage, are the most important here.

These can be very targeted like Water Absorb, Water Veil or Storm drain, which specifically deal with Scald burns in different ways (solidifying our MUs with The slows and Pex) or immunity and poison heal for poison (Against Amoonguss, Blissey) and Sticky hold for dealing knock off and by extension hazards respectively.
Others help with a broader spectrum of passive damageike Magic Bounce (reflecting Hazards and Status of different Mons), Shield dust (mainly helping us with Scalburns but also Fire Lash and other occasional Side effects), misty surge which blocks Status or Guts (which mainly targets Blissey and Ammoonguss).
Magic Guard finally is the broadest option, denying all passive damage, giving us more switch ins on Hazards and Status, but Still leaving us crippled by Burns.

While all of these abilities will help us come in more often and this solidifying our MU against mostly more defensive Pokémon, none of these (with the exception of Stormdrain) give us tools to take advantage of us threatening the Pivots.
More Agressive Abilities that can do that are for Example Defiant, Competitive and Contrary which target different Stat drop options (for example Tomohawks intimidate, fire lash or Defog)
Abilities like Rattled, Justified, Weak Armor, Unburden, Berserk, Storm drain, Lightning Rod, Motor drive and Speed boost take advantage of weaker moves that are often employed by Pivots
This doesn’t let us come in more easily but makes us more immediately threatening in turn helping us Set Up to become a bigger threat and make most of our Switch in.
Some other Abilities can achieve posing a threat without even trigger.
These include the likes of Adaptability, Sheer Force, Punk Rock, Download etc.

Are there any abilities that allow us to effectively accomplish Mx's proposed goal in the second point of their closing post?

I’ll come back to this question later

Edit: Mentioned Misty surge as an ability to help with status.

 

[dex]

Alright everyone, great discussion so far. I'd like to thank you all for parsing through my questions despite how very "abstract" they can be sometimes. I'm very glad to see the varied discussion and I'd like to continue along with some more prompted questions.

This next set of questions will focus a bit more on the previous stages, and allow us to build of a couple things that have been presented both by community members and other topic leaders.

1. To what extent should CAP28's ability account for setbacks with respect to typing, if any setbacks exist at all?
   
   I've noticed a common trend of disdain for our typing Bug/Dragon, as it is, in the words of some, "anti-concept". I'd like to explore a little bit more the relationship between our typing and our ability, if you all don't mind. This question is pretty straightforward, I think. I know there's been discussion on whether or not CAP28's ability should be more more focused on helping it be successful rather than targeting opponents, and this is just another way of allowing us to explore ways in which was can allow CAP28 to accomplish the task it was given of being a "speedbump".
   
   
2. Are there any abilities that allow us to give ourselves more potential switch ins as referenced in Mx's closing post?
   
   Mx raised some interesting questions in their final post in the threats discussion, and now that we've explored a lot of general ability ideas, I want to narrow the focus just a little bit. Our current switch ins list is quite limited, with Safe switches being only two Pokemon, and the Situation switch ins being six total Pokemon. Are there abilities that, while fitting with the concept, allow us to move some of our "Pressures" into "switch ins", or our "Not Safe Switch ins" into "guaranteed switch ins"?
   
   
3. Are there any abilities that allow us to effectively accomplish Mx's proposed goal in the second point of their closing post?
   
   For reference, that point is "Being capable of switching safely into Slowbro and Slowking, immediately forcing out Blissey, and pressuring Steel-types should be our main priorities in order to achieve our concept" As such, are there any abilities that immediately help us with solving this goal? It should be noted that I don't expect the Venn Diagram of the abilities for Question 2 to be the same as the abilities for Questions 3.

Keep up the great discussions, and please don't hesitate to message me if you'd like some clarifications on any of these questions! Again, as a reminder, I'll be opening up official ability submissions about 36 hours from this post, so keep some of your submissions simmering in your heads!

1. To what extent should CAP28's ability account for setbacks with respect to typing, if any setbacks exist at all?
I don't feel like CAP28's ability should need to do anything to account for the typing's weaknesses. There's nothing wrong with considering the weaknesses of Bug/Dragon when thinking of it, but it is by no means necessary. I really think that the ability should be focused on helping us check/counter the defensive pivots. If people really think that the best way to do that is to make up for the typing somehow, then I'm in full support of it, but I don't think it's wholly necessary.

2. Are there any abilities that allow us to give ourselves more potential switch ins as referenced in Mx's closing post?
There's a lot of ways to answer this question, so I'll just go over a few now and maybe add onto this post later:
Sap Sipper: This allows us to move , , and into the Safe-Switch in category, as there would be no need to fear Spore/Sleep Powder/Grassy Glide getting spammed.
Wandering Spirit: This is about as good of an answer that we can get to , moving it to Semi-Safe. Removing Guts like this would be a fun way of dealing with a couple of other Guts users in the tier like and .
Filter: This primarily helps against the Dragon spam currently in the tier, giving CAP28 the ability to, with the right bulk, beat most Dragon-types 1v1 at the cost of taking quite a bit of damage in return. This would help move , , , , , , and

all up to Semi-Safe Switch-ins.
Clear Body/White Smoke: This is pretty much purely for the matchup, moving it closer to a Pressure interaction.
Contrary: This is the ultimate punish tool vs. , , and . I do fear that this could become way too good very fast, as contrary Draco Meteor sounds terrifying.
Triage: This would heavily pressure the psychic types of the tier, giving CAP28 an incredibly strong, spammable priority attack. This would make the matchups against , , , and border on safe.
Motor Drive/Lightning Rod/Volt Absorb: These abilities help out against the electric pivots of the tier, namely , , , and .
Magic Bounce: This just generally eases the matchup with common bulky mons, particularly , , , and .

3. Are there any abilities that allow us to effectively accomplish Mx's proposed goal in the second point of their closing post?
There's also a lot of answers to this question as well.
Water Absorb/Dry Skin/Storm Drain: These are pretty much the most anti-Slowtwin abilities there are. It allows a safe switch in to , which CAP28 pressures out with Bug STAB.
Flare Boost: This would be an out-of-the-box idea to be able to punish Scald burns. Heavily pressuring the Slowtwins with special Bug STAB boosted by Flare Boost would be an incredibly fun way of dealing with Scald spam. This also works with Guts, but isn't as cool.
Shield Dust: This one's pretty straight forward, as it just eliminates the burn chance from Scald. Water veil does the same thing, with the trade off being that we don't escape other moves' alternate effects with the bonus of being able to come in on the odd wisp from and other users of the move.

Adaptability/Tough Claws/Download/Guts/Hustle/Defiant/Justified/Simple/Moxie/Beast Boost: These are the abilities that can help us with the matchup, pretty much ensuring strong physical attacks. Adaptability and Simple could both get pretty strong, but I don't think they'd be absolutely broken. The rest would be fun to work with, especially Download, which could lead to some fun mixed sets that excel against . I left Sheer Force off this list because I noticed that Bug and Dragon don't tend to have very powerful physical moves with secondary effects.
Skill Link: I'm talking about this one on it's own because it has the potential to just absolutely roll , but it also could end up being the most fun out of the bunch of damage boosting abilities. Skill Link with STAB Pin Missile AND STAB Scale Shot could turn out to be really, really cool with the right coverage, though it could force us into running 3/4 attacks which isn’t ideal.
Magic Guard/Magic Bounce: This just pretty much invalidates any Toxic sets, and Magic Bounce invalidates pretty much all sets.

Pressuring Steel types is something I think can best be done through our moveset discussion, but until then, here are our options in my eyes:
Tinted Lens: This has been mentioned a lot in the discord, and is really the only surefire way to deal with the massive deficit in our Steel matchups.
Corrosion: This would be a fun way to work with the typing, and landing crippling Toxics on and would be an interesting way to help CAP28's matchups against the meta Steel Types, while also improving it's fairly important matchup.

 

[quziel]

The way I see it we face 3 main problems currently;

1) No Spammable STAB to punish an uncertain switchin/opportunity

This is relevant because of the following situation;

28 is in vs Slowking, Slowking hard switches out, the switchin resists bug and/or dragon.

In this hypothetical 28 has not damaged Slowking, nor has it meaningfully damaged the switchin. This is fixable by giving 28 exceptional coverage such that it can predict the switchin and damage it heavily, which is something I think is quite plausible, giving it an ability that grants it a "third stab" such as Punk Rock, Strong Jaws, the -ate abilities, or a similar one, or by giving it Tinted Lens. The lack of a way to punish an indeterminate switchin, and thus the inability to force progress if we get in vs Slowking worries me, which is what makes this route attractive to me.

Relevant Abilities: Punk Rock, Strong Jaw, Galvanize, Tinted Lens, Stakeout (pseudo-tinted lens)

2) Weakness to passive damage

As has been explained before, this typing is notably weak to both Stealth Rock and Spikes, forcing it to either run a set few abilities, or have Heavy Duty Boots. Given that we want to check several pivots that may run Knock Off such as Zeraora, Toxapex, and Mandibuzz, being resilient in the face of Knock Off is quite useful. In addition, many of these mons also run Toxic, effectively putting us on a timer. Magic Guard has been getting talk in the discord due to its ability to negate Stealth Rock (and potentially Knock Off) as a threat. It also takes care of Toxic. It must be noted that a Magic Guard mon will still likely end up Knock Off weak thanks to that archetype's love of Life Orb. Sticky Hold is a far lower power-level version of this that targets Knock Off only.

Relevant Abilities: Magic Guard, Sticky Hold, potentially Magic Bounce

3) (Physical Only) Scald Burns

Our primary targets for this concept are the Slowbrothers, who are fairly well known at this point for clicking the Scald button whenever they are unsure what's coming in. This is potentially concept-breaking if we go physical as well, its unlikely we'll be able to realistically threaten pivot teams when burned. Some ways to fix this include Shield Dust, which blocks Scald, Fire Lash, and others, Water Veil which targets burns as a whole, and Water immunity abilities such as Storm Drain and Water Absorb

Relevant Abilities: Shield Dust, Water Veil, Storm Drain, Water Absorb, potentially Guts

---------------------

Now that we've covered problems, lets focus on areas where we can lend ourselves a new-concept relevant edge:

1) Benefits from staying in

As we are aiming to defeat pivots, having a mon that grows stronger the longer we stay in, and the longer they pivot around is concept relevant. Stamina is definitely tangential to the concept, but if you wanted an ability that would just force the opponent to immediately answer you (so they don't have to figure out a way to rkill a +6 def mon), it 100% counts. This however would definitely be weird at best. Berserk is another ability in this vein, giving us further increasing power the more the opponent pivots around without directly trying to kill us. Eg If we can use a Slowking's Future Sight to get under 50%, we become way more difficult to deal with. Finally, Download is a more pivot-oriented ability that directly targets Blissey, giving us an attack boost against it, and letting us threaten it even with a modest attack stat, although figuring out how to use it vs Slowking could be iffy. Contrary is a final one helping out our moveslot issues (3 move coverage is painful here) and forcing the opponent to directly answer us.

Relevant Abilities: Stamina, Berserk, Download, Speed Boost (I don't like this), Contrary (very scary)

2) Punish (other) Pivoting moves

Currently we've mainly been discussing Teleport users, which are merely one subcategory of pivot-move users. Rattled is exceptional for directly punishing U-turn by giving us a speed boost, punishing Knock Off (tangential but related), and punishing Intimidate (Tomohawk). These benefits all help us punish the use of several pivot-move users and certain Pivoting strategies as a whole. Volt Absorb, Lightning Rod, and Motor Drive do the same for Volt Switch, all of them being exceptional against Zeraora, as we would force it to hard switch out. Finally, contact-punishing abilities such as Static (not suggested as we wanna punish Zera), Effect Spore, Flame Body and Rough Skin all help us out vs Zeraora and U-Turn users.

Relevant Abilities: Rattled, Volt Absorb, Lightning Rod, Motor Drive, Effect Spore, Flame Body, Rough Skin, Competitive, Defiant

3) Expand Switchin List

There's just a load of immunity and resistance abilities that are relevant here. Thick Fat makes us into an actual Astrolotl and Rotom-Heat answer, as does Heatproof (and Water Bubble) by giving us as solid Fire resistance, which I find to be very relevant, with Heatproof also basically nullifying any burn damage we get from Scald. Natural Cure, Immunity, Pastel Veil, Shed Skin, and Magic Bounce all make this mon a pretty exceptional switchin to Toxapex (barring Knock Off) or Toxic in general. This is pretty nice for expanding our Switch-in list. Magic Bounce is however pretty anti-concept by making us into a pseudo-pivot ourselves (aka we wanna predict SR). Triage is worth at least a quick mention by making us into a pretty damn solid revenge killer, and letting us pretty immediately force out anything frail we ever get in vs. I'm certain I'm missing something, but tried to cover as much as I could. Trace is weird, but lets us beat up Zera, come in on Pex, come in on Slowtwins, and all that kinda stuff, so its always relevant.

 

[Jewvia]

- To what extent should CAP28's ability account for setbacks with respect to typing, if any setbacks exist at all?

Offensively. I feel that we are a bit lacking in checking Pokemon that switch in. Carrying a bug type move would be a lousy slot to have outside of specific matchups like the Slows unless we had an ability that had incentive for us to take a Bug move rather than just Dragon + Coverage. Abilities like Punk Rock (for a beefy Bug Buzz + Bonus Overdrive coverage), Tinted Lens (to neutralize our 7 Bug weaknesses when one of them gets switched in against us), Triage (Priority Leech Life), and Compound Eyes (for a consistent Megahorn) help us to this end. Of these, Punk Rock also helps us by giving us a pseudo "third STAB" via Overdrive that will help us against , , , and . 4 big threats on our checks and counters list, including the Toxapex that I feel is a priority we want to deal with.

If we do want a defensive ability to make up for our weaknesses, as weird as it sounds for our typing, I think Thick Fat would be the best option. It would make us neutral to Ice and resistant to Fire, which helps us with a lot of our pressure list such as (still take Dragon STAB), , , and . It would also make :Rotom-H: less situational and more safe, as well as make less of a check.

I do not think an ability such as Volt or Water Absorb would be doing us many favours here, since we are already resistant to water and electric. The reasons we would want to take these abilities is to make us immune to Scald/Volt Switch, its not a setback with respect to typing.

- Are there any abilities that allow us to give ourselves more potential switch ins as referenced in Mx's closing post?

One idea is Thick Fat. This ability would make and safe switch ins. would move into a safe switch in territory as we resist both of its stabs and both of its common coverage options of Ice Beam and Earth Power. would be in the same tier as /:Hippodown:, as Toxic is still a threat. The Overheat problem Mx discussed about :Rotom-H: would also go away with this ability. At the end of it for all 3, the bigger problem we have is a Status move hurting us.

Filter and Multiscale would help us with switching in as well. Filter reduces the power of super effective moves. This would make Pokemon like or situational switch ins, as we resist one of their STABs while the other is still-SE-but-less-SE. It would also make a Safe Switch In as its non-STAB Ice Beam is reduced in effectiveness.

Multiscale meanwhile makes that first switch in move less effective. This helps with the same switch ins that Filter for tanking 2 hits. (Two Ice Beams from would be equally effective against Filter or Multiscale) but also adds more power in protecting ourselves from other non-SE switch ins (such as Knock Off from //, :rotom-H: Overheat, Steel attacks from /)

The other idea is to take an ability that helps us with status moves. We've seen these options used on many CAPs so far, such as Guts (), Magic Guard (), Comotose () and Poison Heal (). These options would all specifically make our Situation Switch Ins into Safe Switch Ins (other than :rotom-H: and the two knock offs), as well as promote and to Safe Switch Ins.

If we want to deal with Knock Off instead, Justified and Rattled can be used to buff our Speed or Attack respectively on switch in. This wouldn't reduce how much damage we take from Knock Off however, leaving speedy Knock Off users or those with priority followups as *potential* threats. Sufficient physical defense would help though. Theoretically with the right stat spread, this could make and into safe switch ins, as well as add to the list of situational switch ins.

Triage is an offensive rather than defensive ability, but it gives us a priority STAB Leech Life. The healing helps us with non-SE STABs while also giving us our own 80BP STAB Priority move. I would say this upgrades , , , and from Pressure to switch ins. I think that it also helps a lot with the / matchup as well, but we do still lose the item from Knock Off.

- Are there any abilities that allow us to effectively accomplish Mx's proposed goal in the second point of their closing post?

To make our Slows matchup safer, anything that helps us resist the burn from Scald. Whether that is one of the aforementioned abilities that help us with status moves or if we go for something that eliminates the effect's chance entirely like Shield Dust. Shield Dust still leaves us with a weakness to Toxic however.


If we want to immediately force out Blissey... Literally anything that helps our physical attack will do the job. Whether that is Guts, Download, Sheer Force, Tough Claws, etc. There are many options here. The bigger thing to help here would probably be in stats or movepool however.

Trying to cover steel would again, rely more on stats and movepool. The option of Neutralizing Gas helps us cover Equilibra with ground coverage (or we can forego that and use Fighting coverage), while Tinted Lens helps our resisted Bug/Dragon STAB hit neutral.

 

[Orig Stall Guy]

1. To what extent should CAP28's ability account for setbacks with respect to typing, if any setbacks exist at all?
   
   I've noticed a common trend of disdain for our typing Bug/Dragon, as it is, in the words of some, "anti-concept". I'd like to explore a little bit more the relationship between our typing and our ability, if you all don't mind. This question is pretty straightforward, I think. I know there's been discussion on whether or not CAP28's ability should be more more focused on helping it be successful rather than targeting opponents, and this is just another way of allowing us to explore ways in which was can allow CAP28 to accomplish the task it was given of being a "speedbump".
   
   
2. Are there any abilities that allow us to give ourselves more potential switch ins as referenced in Mx's closing post?
   
   Mx raised some interesting questions in their final post in the threats discussion, and now that we've explored a lot of general ability ideas, I want to narrow the focus just a little bit. Our current switch ins list is quite limited, with Safe switches being only two Pokemon, and the Situation switch ins being six total Pokemon. Are there abilities that, while fitting with the concept, allow us to move some of our "Pressures" into "switch ins", or our "Not Safe Switch ins" into "guaranteed switch ins"?
   
   
3. Are there any abilities that allow us to effectively accomplish Mx's proposed goal in the second point of their closing post?
   
   For reference, that point is "Being capable of switching safely into Slowbro and Slowking, immediately forcing out Blissey, and pressuring Steel-types should be our main priorities in order to achieve our concept" As such, are there any abilities that immediately help us with solving this goal? It should be noted that I don't expect the Venn Diagram of the abilities for Question 2 to be the same as the abilities for Questions 3.

Man that is a lot to unpack. But these kind of questions keep our discussions interesting and engaging.

1) That depends greatly on the ability. Magic Guard and Tintend Lens each try to address the limitations of the bug/dragon typing in their own way. Tinted lens trys to compensate for less than ideal stab pressure by hitting resists for natural while magic guard deals with weakness to SR. Ive also heard proposals of things like Steelworker to grand Psudo Stabs. I get it people aren't to keen on Bug/Dragon (which makes me wonder how it won), but we can't dwell on the past. Our ability should try to get the biggest bang the typing can afford us.

2) This is the hardest to awnser for me. Im thinking Filter or Trace. Filter means we take less dmg from drag spam, giving us a chance to live and kill with our own drag spam. This is another ability that seeks to compensate for the funky bug/drag typing, but relevant for like 10 of the pressure mons. The other Idea I have is Trace. Trace is circumstantial but very useful. I might make a separate post about Trace. But its lets you beat Regens at their own game, Heal from Zera Electric moves, cure a toxic from the fatties, get magic guard from krill or Reuniclus. Or even...trace :Azumaril: Huge/Pure Power if we go physical. Which would be awesome.

3) Ok Im not making a ven diagram but I have some abilities that come to mind of accomplishing Mx's proposed goal. Against the slows, the main concern people have mentioning is Scald burns. To address this, Sheild Dust, Water Absorb, Dry Skin, Storm Drain, (or Water Bubble but its banned) is the way to go. Against the fatties, there is no one ability that beats it. Instead, beating them is all about Physical Attack pressure which comes from stats and movepool than abilities. Maybe abilities to beat getting statuses? As for Steels, yeah tinted lens means we at least get to hit them for natural with STABs.

 

[earl]

Just a quick note, I don’t think people should be as worried with scald burns as they are right now- statistically, one shouldn’t get burned when switching and there’s plenty of Slowtwin counters that are ruined by burns but still counter in the grand scheme of things. Circumventing hax via shield dust, an overall mediocre ability, will leave the stats and movepool stage picking up an absurd amount of slack and I think a more powerful ability is paramount to this CAP’s success.

 

[Mx]

Just a quick note, I don’t think people should be as worried with scald burns as they are right now- statistically, one shouldn’t get burned when switching and there’s plenty of Slowtwin counters that are ruined by burns but still counter in the grand scheme of things. Circumventing hax via shield dust, an overall mediocre ability, will leave the stats and movepool stage picking up an absurd amount of slack and I think a more powerful ability is paramount to this CAP’s success.

While its true that is possible to check the Slowtwins just fine without being Scald-proof, they are supposed to be our main targets and are also one of the few mons we can be reasonably expected to switch into. Having to risk a 30% chance every time you switch in (something that will probably happen at least a few times per game) is not acceptable if we want to be primarily a physical attacker. Other abilities can deal with a higher SpA, but a somewhat decent Atk will always be necessary due to our need to directly threaten Blissey too. This need to have great mixed offenses is always going to lead to a very strained Stats stages, but Shield Dust is one of the few abilities that can somewhat mitigate that. Additionally, most of the best Bug-type moves like Leech Life, First Impressions, and Mega Horn are physical moves, so being able to use them freely would be a great way to take advantage of our typing.

 

[20Yelram02]

To what extent should CAP28's ability account for setbacks with respect to typing, if any setbacks exist at all?
It should be acknowledged that that CAP28's typing isn't the greatest, but we chose it for its good qualities so we roll with it. The setbacks are both offensive and defensive. Offensively, we struggle to hit Steel and Fairy types, based on typing alone. Defensively, we have no protection against hazards (particularly SR).

• We could account for this offensivelywith:
  • Abilities that grant pseudoSTAB (Aerilate, Galvanize, Normalize, Pixilate, Refrigerate, Steelworker)
  • Abilities that raise stats (Download, Hustle)
  • Abilities that raise the power of certain moves (Iron Fist, Mega Launcher, Punk Rock, Strong Jaw, Technician, Tough Claws)
  • Other (Tinted Lens, Sheer Force, Stakeout).
• Defensively:
  • With abilities that block status (Comatose, Immunity, Insomnia, Magma Armor, Pastel Veil, Shed Skin, Shield Dust, Sweet Veil, Vital Spirit, Water Veil)
  • Abilities that make use of status (Guts, Flare Boost, Marvel Scale, Poison Heal, Quick Feet, Synchronize, Tangled Feet, Toxic Boost)
  • Abilities that make use of low health (Beserk, Gluttony, Swarm)
  • Abilities that block SR (Magic Guard)
  • Abilities that block other forms of hazards (Clear Body, Contrary, Defiant, Levitate, White Smoke)
  • Abilities that block weather damage (Overcoat, Sand Rush, Sand Veil, Snow Cloak)

You'll notice I didn't go into abilities that grant type resistance or immunity, I didn't feel it was necessary. Volt Absorb, Lightning Rod, Water Absorb, etc. They grant useful immunities in stopping Volt Switch and Scald burns. We already resist Volt Switch and can choose from many abilities to increase damage to the switch in. Similarly, we resist Scald and can choose from any number of abilities that prevent burns from negatively impacting us. I acknowledge they are there, I don't think we need to resort to them.

I bolded abilities I thought were especially prominent. Here's why:

• Punk Rock boosts many moves, most notably, Bug Buzz and Boomburst, providing potential nukes. It also gives a little protection against sound moves coming from an opponent
• Tough Claws also boosts many moves, including Leech Life, First Impression, Dragon Tail and Megahorn, similarly providing some stronger attacks
• Tinted Lens somewhat makes up for poor coverage by replacing not very effective hits with neutral damage, it'd help avoid being hardwalled by every Steel and Fairy type in the meta
• Stakeout provides a massive power boost against opponents that have switched in, it is more powerful but less applicable, than the previous three options
• Shield Dust prevents freeze and flinch altogether, but is valued here primarily due to stopping Scald burns
• Guts, Flare Boost and Toxic Boost all boost attack power under various status conditions, they would enable CAP28 to severely punish the opponent for clicking Scald or Toxic respectively
• Magic Guard has been discussed at length, it denies all status damage, all hazard damage, all weather damage and all other forms of passive damage. It would, without a doubt, make CAP28 worth using and would cover up for its poor matchup with SR

Are there any abilities that allow us to give ourselves more potential switch-ins as referenced in Mx's closing post?
Abilities that grant switch-ins are generally defensive in nature.

• There are:
  • Abilities that give immunity to certain moves (Bulletproof, Soundproof)
  • Abilities that punish the opponent for making contact (Cute Charm, Effect Spore, Flame Body, Gooey, Iron Barbs, Perish Body, Poison Point, Poison Touch, Rough Skin, Static, Tangling Hair, Wandering Spirit)
  • Abilities that punish the opponent for attacking (Cotton Down, Cursed Body, Justified, Rattled, Steam Engine)
  • Abilities that give immunity to certain types (Dry Skin, Flash Fire, Levitate, Lightning Rod, Motor Drive, Sap Sipper, Storm Drain, Volt Absorb, Water Absorb)
  • Abilities that summon terrain to various benefit (Electric Surge, Grassy Surge, Misty Surge, Psychic Surge)
  • Abilities that reduce damage taken (Filter, Fur Coat, Multiscale, Punk Rock, Solid Rock, Thick Fat)
  • Abilities that can mess around with stats (Download, Intimidate, Stamina, Unaware, Water Compaction)
  • And various others (Magic Bounce, Neutralizing Gas, Pressure, Screen Cleaner, Sturdy, Trace)

I, again, bolded those I thought were more prominent:

• Bulletproof would suit very well, there are ten mons on the C&C and Pressure list that consistently run Aura Sphere or Energy Ball
• Effect Spore is just my way of representing all the contact status abilities, they each hold their own merits, be it chip damage, speed control, stat lowering, but they all have the same drawback of only activating on contact
• Wandering Spirit is one that could be surprisingly useful. It doesn't rely on making a contact attack, but making contact, so it can be used to simply steal abilities in a similar manner to how NGas might be used
• Cursed Body can disable a move regardless of whether or not it makes contact, not much to say, never a bad choice (unless you swap Levitate for it)
• Rattled gives a speed boost off U-turn, Intimidate, Knock Off and various other moves. It is a good way to profit from pivot things (particularly Tomo and Zera)
• Levitate is a great ability, providing immunity to hazards (except SR) as well as Ground type moves (though this isn't as important with MB Exca running around)
• Filter reduces all super effective damage, giving us better matchups against every Dragon type in the tier and lessening damage in general
• Thick Fat gives us resistance to Fire and neutrality to Ice, two very good things to have considering Heatom, Volcarona, Syclant and the Slowtwins exist
• Neutralizing Gas is premier in crippling Regenerator and Natural Cure mons (looking at you Slowtwins and Blissey) and, in the worst case, even the playing field by removing both abilities. It negates Azu's Huge Power, Togekiss's Serene Grace, Tomo's Intimidate, Pex's Regen, Syclant's Mountaineer, and so on and so forth. It brings a lot of mons that rely heavily on their abilities down to CAP28's level
• Pressure is, in general, a good ability to have. I doubt CAP28 will be PP stalling, but Pressure is, well, pressure
• Trace allows us to switch in on Zera and heal from its Volt Switch, to switch in on a Regen mon and force it out before regaining some of our own HP, to switch on on Rotom and gain a powerful immunity. Any of those abilities could be chosen now, but the versatility and sheer surprise factor Trace has makes for a more versatile mon

Are there any abilities that allow us to effectively accomplish Mx's proposed goal in the second point of their closing post?
Yes, plenty:

• Tinted Lens doesn't necessarily give favourable matchups, but it removes negative matchups, pretty much denying hard checks in general
• Magic Guard allows more easy switch-ins and, while this doesn't remove any C&C, it does allow us to switch in more safely as a whole
• Punk Rock and Tough Claws provide potential nukes, removing softer checks
• Bulletproof only grants immunity to already not very effective moves as well as Shadow Ball and Sludge Bomb (as far as we're concerned), but some of those are coming off monstrous Special Attack stats so it shouldn't be discounted
• Filter removes (kind of) the Dragon type from the Pressure list by lessening opposing Dragon STAB while ours remains fully potent
• Thick Fat's Fire and Ice resistance can be very valuable in removing several mons from Pressure and also gives us a better matchup against the Slowtwins that run Ice Beam
• Neutralizing Gas completely stuffs over plenty of offensive and defensive mons, its value should not be understated for the reasons listed above (and for all the other reasons that I forgot).

 

[earl]

While its true that is possible to check the Slowtwins just fine without being Scald-proof, they are supposed to be our main targets and are also one of the few mons we can be reasonably expected to switch into. Having to risk a 30% chance every time you switch in (something that will probably happen at least a few times per game) is not acceptable if we want to be primarily a physical attacker. Other abilities can deal with a higher SpA, but a somewhat decent Atk will always be necessary due to our need to directly threaten Blissey too. This need to have great mixed offenses is always going to lead to a very strained Stats stages, but Shield Dust is one of the few abilities that can somewhat mitigate that. Additionally, most of the best Bug-type moves like Leech Life, First Impressions, and Mega Horn are physical moves, so being able to use them freely would be a great way to take advantage of our typing.

I’m aware that physical is the way to go, but Slowbro does not beat every physical attacker just because he can land a scald burn (perhaps when it does happen he does, in fact beat every one, but probability dictates that, say, Rillaboom does switch in and beat Slowbro) but there’s plenty of ways to get around scald burns that doesn’t involve gimping our ability. Like a boosting move, for example, or just enough raw power to 2HKO through a burn with a boosting item (given boots are the assumed item but you never know). I’d rather go with a water immunity like dry skin if avoiding scald is top priority or go with a more general-use ability that can still function with a burn (something like taunt+ngas for example, or just a boosting ability like tough claws).

 

[The Crusade]

Another active ability I though of, specifically for Slowtwins and Blissey, would be Stakeout- Given this CAP can threaten heavy damage on these pivots while also being unrealistc to switch into when boosted, Stakeout could be a viable way to trap these pivots. A very strong ability overall, though.

Would someone please explain how Stakeout is supposed to punish our target pivots? Unless we're using a move with extremely negative priority and limiting our speed to something abysmal, Stakeout fails to proc on any turn when the opponent is using Teleport. The threat of Stakeout feels like it would only increase the usage of this move, even if the Slowfellas don't want to be caught sitting against Bug STAB.​

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Anyways...​

Are there any abilities that allow us to give ourselves more potential switch ins as referenced in Mx's closing post?

I think Comatose warrants discussion as a blanket denial of all the status effects that we're worried about. It means immunity to Toxic, Spore, and burns from any source. Suddenly, is no longer a pressure, and most of our situational switch-ins turn safe ( and especially).​

 

[earl]

Would someone please explain how Stakeout is supposed to punish our target pivots? Unless we're using a move with extremely negative priority and limiting our speed to something abysmal, Stakeout fails to proc on any turn when the opponent is using Teleport. The threat of Stakeout feels like it would only increase the usage of this move, even if the Slowfellas don't want to be caught sitting against Bug STAB.​

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Because I would hope that we can at least 2HKO Slowtwins/Blissey, Stakeout puts the opponent in a checkmate scenario- switch immediately and hope your steel can stomach the hit or click teleport and leave the field severely damaged even after regen (assuming we deal at least 70 or so with super-effective STAB. Which once again, I would hope we could lol). The main issue with other boosting abilities is that these teleport pivots still have the freedom to hard switch, Stakeout disincentivizes that heavily. Even with regen a Slowbro that ate a hit from CAP28 wouldn’t check much after the exchange.

 

[quziel]

Would someone please explain how Stakeout is supposed to punish our target pivots? Unless we're using a move with extremely negative priority and limiting our speed to something abysmal, Stakeout fails to proc on any turn when the opponent is using Teleport. The threat of Stakeout feels like it would only increase the usage of this move, even if the Slowfellas don't want to be caught sitting against Bug STAB.​

​

Because the threat of "28 comes in and forces a stakeout hit vs Slowking" means they don't wanna bring in Slowking, thus punishing it in general. I think this is like, one of the most dangerous routes we can take, but its definitely a route we can take, even though the risk of "CB breaker you bring in through Teleport" is very real with a Stakeout mon.

 

[Yay61]

To what extent should CAP28's ability account for setbacks with respect to typing, if any setbacks exist at all?
The best options I can think of at the moment all do help patch up some of the flaws in the typing. Switching in on the slowtwins at this point seems imperative as unlike many other pivots it can do little to threaten us with only scald burns to cover and it is one of the most common pivots, let alone a teleport pivot which we aimed to target. For this reason I think any of the water immunity abilities or Shield Dust are good fits as its harder to punish pivoting if we cannot reliably switch in to any of them ourselves.

Additionally, scald burns are not something we can simply shrug off, as relying on utility options rather than offensive power likely means that we will be passive and easily taken advantage of by dangerous offensive pokemon. Attempting to brute force through the scald burn means that if the burn can be avoided this pokemon could unleash far more catastrophic levels of power, ultimately leading to it not switching into our targets anyway to preserve its breaking power. While special sets can circumvent this issue and would work fine with a secondary ability, it is unreasonable to aim to beat blissey without at least mixed offenses and most of our more interesting stab options are physical moves anyway.


There are other more offensive abilities that I still support for helping our poor coverage. However, it should be noted that while raw offensive power can be fixed by compensating in the stats stage, our defensive utility is difficult to properly remedy after this stage. Hence I only support abilities that provide a bonus to particular aspects or strategies, rather than a flat power increase. These include Punk Rock to incentivise bug stab and coverage moves, and Neutralising Gas which enables a unique, more aggressive way to punish regenerator pivots. Abilities I’m not such a fan of are ones such as tough claws, which supports our physical breaking power while offering no way to circumvent inevitable scald burns. Stakeout is certainly highly punishing, and dissuades pivots from ever coming in but I feel this effect is far too volatile and easily abused, either breaking the meta or leaving us without the power to even force out any pivots.

 

[Zephyri]

To what extent should CAP28's ability account for setbacks with respect to typing, if any setbacks exist at all?

As people have said before, the main weakness of this typing is passive damage... specifically hazards. However, I want to look at something else over here, that being its abundance of neutral matchups. While this isn't necessarily a bad thing, I feel like the fact that we are in SO MANY "stalemate" matchups that we need to have a few powerful moves that aren't STAB to make sure that we have a reason to be used. That's why "third STAB" abilities like Punk Rock, Strong Jaw, and Steelworker seem like good fits atm.

2. Are there any abilities that allow us to give ourselves more potential switch ins as referenced in Mx's closing post?

I think is a mon that we can very easily turn into a switchin. We resist it's main two moves, yet we might be crippled by Knock Off. In fact, a better MU against Knock Off would help against Rillaboom as well. Now, there are two ways to solve this knock off weakness. The first is to make sure that the item wouldn't come off, the best ability for this being Sticky Hold. The second, and probably superior, way to circumvent this would be to punish the act of knocking off, with contact abilities like Gooey or Rough Skin, or abilities like Rattled or Unburden. Another problem I see here is a weakness to status, which when removed would convert mons like Rotom-W, Rotom-H, and Blissey into safe switchins (i think). The best abilities we have for this situation are Magic Guard and Immunity, but just for general matchup improvement with these mons, I feel like a really interesting pick is Triage, which doesn't alleviate the status itself, but helps us handle it better with recovery moves (only rlly applies to Toxic from Blissey, while also giving us priority on STAB Leech Life (which we're basically guaranteed to have if we go physical), and possibly other non-STAB moves, giving us a better MU against faster mons like Zeraora. Prankster is also really interesting for me, as priority Taunt is really useful here for shutting down blissey, tomo, and bettering our MU against the Rotoms. Prankster also gives us access to priority Heal Bell, which helps our status problem. Alongside that, Prankster just gives us a way better MU against the mons that are being pivoted in, as they are typically fast, frail, and sometimes crippled by status. Finally, Prankster gives us a reliable way to boost against the pivotins, especially Zera, Smoko, and Exca.

 

[theotherguytm]

To what extent should CAP28's ability account for setbacks with respect to typing, if any setbacks exist at all?

First up, our typing was slated as "targeted" and "limited but fair" in Stage 2. Basically, we're aiming to hit as much as possible Super Effectively while having some drawbacks so we don't hit basically the entire game. Honestly I feel like we should roll with that, and have a "targeted" Ability that shores us up against one or two key targets.
There's so many good abilities here we could choose that have been bought up already. I personally quite like quizel's breakdown that splits it into three parts, but looking closer at each one there's some issues with a few suggested Abilites.

Offensively, our redundant STABs are the primary issue, and Punk Rock appears to solve that nicely, buffing an obvious STAB and granting some very powerful coverage. However, this Ability does lean us heavily into a Special mold, much like its primary user Toxtricity. And guess what that means can switch into us. Blissey. Toxtricity has to go as far as running Shift Gear+Drain Punch to break Blissey, as has been seen in several occasions in OU's OLT. This ability therefore almost forces us to go mixed and offer something to break Blissey with. There are other options than going mixed, but they are probably more time-consuming than we would like for a special attacker. The other Abilities like Strong Jaw and Tinted Lens either lean us physically or don't favour either, which would give us much more freedom to have ways around the two of Slowbro and Blissey that we are aiming to be able to break or punish.

The primary defensive issue of Bug/Dragon is many mons we are hoping to exploit have a simple way of heavily crippling us via Knock Off. So, despite it being analysed and rejected last time round, Sticky Hold does spring to mind. But I (a major believer in it last time round) actually think it's much less useful with our target switch-ins for a couple of reasons.
1. It doesn't actually affect our matchup with the primary concept targets-Teleporters.
The only three OU/CAP/UU(BL) Pokemon that get the combination of Knock Off and Teleport are Mew (never uses it), Clefable (banned) and Alakazam. And being a switch in to Teleport/Knock/2 Attacks Zam is not exactly what the metagame is crying for (if that set even exists). So Sticky Hold is pretty much a non-starter for helping combat Teleporters. It does solidify our ability to switch into non-Play Rough Zeraora, and helps against several U-turn/Knock users like Rillaboom and Colossoil. However, this Ability is less about combating those pivots and more about being able to switch into them. It will help us last longer, but it's going to be down to our movepool to really damage pivoting strategies.
2. The Trick immunity is almost redundant.
I saw this as one of the biggest selling points of a Sticky Hold CAP 27, but for the current metagame it's almost irrelevant. With Trick getting nerfed out of Astro's movepool as well as the duo of Magearna and Clefable banned, the move is currently very rare outside the occasional Scarf Rotom-form. So unless we're really getting hung up on not being crippled by Scarf Rotom-W, Sticky Hold is only really useful against Knock Off users.
(Sorry if this is a bit too soon to zero in this much on any one ability.)
The other Ability that springs to mind for dealing with hazards is Magic Guard. Which also solves the issue of being hit by Toxic, lets us ignore burn damage, and generally turn into Krillowatt 2.0. Because there simply is no way around the Life Orb Attacker set. Magic Guard basically ensures we can't "fail" to produce a competitive Pokemon, but we would have to take a lot of steps to actually fulfil the concept. However, is this really a bad thing? I would hardly call not having to worry about Toxic and Stealth Rock anti-concept. It would be a challenge, but I actually see Magic Guard as workable.
As for another more balanced way to handle Knock Off, Justified and Rattled have been suggested. I don't think either of these solve our issues. Effectively, we get a 1-time bonus we can use to hit our switch-in extra hard/fast. Then we're still crippled for the rest of the game. Since we're dealing with pivots, that implies switching in and out an awful lot. And switching resets the boosts we get from these. So basically out of the 25 or so times we intend to switch in, 1 time we will get +1 Attack/Speed, then be crippled for the rest of the game. We can't really become a Knock Off sink without extraordinary levels of bulk and recovery.

Then we get to the Scald burn problem. Here's where physically based Abilities start to struggle a bit. Several Abilities have been suggested to solve this issue like Shield Dust, Guts, Water Veil and Natural Cure. But I'm not convinced this issue is worth our Ability slot. We could conceivably circumnavigate this problem in several other ways in either the movepool or in stats. Out of the ones suggested, Natural Cure makes a lot of sense, and eases switching into Amoonguss, Tangrowth, Ferrothorn and more. However this doesn't do anything to solve our two greatest issues above.

Are there any abilities that allow us to give ourselves more potential switch ins as referenced in Mx's closing post?

There are a lot. Most of them have been mentioned already. Turning Zeraora into a switch-in honestly sounds dubious given its access to Play Rough. Anything that deals with status would make Rotom-forms and Toxapex much easier to switch into. One positive trait of our typing is it does offer a nice selection of resistances, including to Fighting, Water and Ground. We can utilise this to potentially switch into Equilibra, Hippowdon, Arghonaut, Excadrill and others who are reliant on common STABs, though we do have to beware common coverage/secondary STABs like Ice, Fairy, Rock and Flying moves.

Are there any abilities that allow us to effectively accomplish Mx's proposed goal in the second point of their closing post?

Our targets here give us a few issues. Avoiding burns from the Slowtwins makes us want to lean specially, but a desire to hurt Blissey means we want to be physically capable. I therefore think an Ability that does not commit us one way or the other (like Punk Rock and Strong Jaw do) is the way forward. By "Steels", Mx basically meant Equilibra, Ferrothorn and Excadrill (we are not going to be touching Cawmodore) from B+ up on the VR, with Bisharp, Jirachi and Corviknight as afterthoughts (avoid thinking about Aegislash like the plague). For this, coverage seems like our best bet, but there are a couple of Abilties that spring to mind for these mons. Neutralizing Gas rears its head again with ideas such as forcing Equilibra to take Spikes damage on a double, avoiding Iron Barbs chip, stopping Sand Rush Dual STAB SD Spin Excadrill cold, avoiding Serene Grace hax and more. Tinted Lens does help us hit Equilibra and Excadrill, but almost all the other Steels are neutral to Bug due to their secondary typing.

 

[Speny]

Are there any abilities that allow us to effectively accomplish Mx's proposed goal in the second point of their closing post?
Stall could provide an interesting niche it could allow us to use a move like whirlwind after they teleport. It would be a large commitment and might make the mon too gimmicky for what we are going for. I do see potential for it being used with skill swap to force would be checks into a disadvantageous position. Flare Boost is an interesting option if we lean more to being special, I could see mons like Blissey being addressed by a move like Psyshock, Photon Geyser or body press allowing it to hit defense. Poison Heal could also work well as it would reward you on the turn slowtwins are teleporting and prevent other status. Neutralizing Gas does seem like one most straightforward ways to accomplish the proposed goal.

 

[Birkal]

MODERATOR POST

Doing a search function on this page has procured the results 'Water Bubble' five times. I wanted to nip this in the bud and clarify that Water Bubble is indeed on the banned ability list. It has been since 2016, as per this Policy Review thread. It is listed as a banned ability in this very thread. You can read in that PR thread why exactly it's banned. If you disagree, you should make a comment on how and why CAP bans abilities. But changing streams mid-CAP is not something we do. There are plenty of other abilities that are viable for this concept, so please do not discuss banned abilities; it derails the thread. Thank you!

 

[Voltage]

Allllllllllllllllllllrighty folks, it seems like there's been some extensive discussion about abilities. I'm very pleased by all the comments that have been placed here and I feel comfortable enough to OPEN ABILITY SUBMISSIONS!

You know the drill, in this portion of the process, please give abilities you believe are important and concept relevant enough to be placed on the slate. As the Topic Leader, I'll promise you a rough draft of the slate I've got so far on Saturday night, as well as posting a summary of all the abilities posted so far with my thoughts (similar to how quziel did). Depending on how much debate there is with the slate, I would ideally close the submission phase by Monday evening. These deadlines are flexible depending on activity, but don't leave things until the last minute.

Make sure your ability submissions follow the rules as outlines in the OP as well as in Birkal's previous post. CAP Banned Abilities are banned for a reason, and submitting them with hopes that they end up on the slate will not yield the results you hope for. If you would like my input or thoughts on specific abilities as well, by all means ask me, as I'd be happy to answer any other questions that you may have.

With all that said, let the submission phase, begin!

 

[Rabia]

Submitting Tinted Lens

I think the main issue this CAP currently faces is that it's very hard to successfully throw out attacks due to the redundant STAB coverage offered by Bug / Dragon as a typing. While this could be fixed in later stages, I think Tinted Lens makes matters much less difficult from the get go. It allows CAP 28 to easily spam its STAB moves and makes it difficult to, well, pivot around. If the goal is to punish pivoting, I think a great way to do so would be to make it so people trying to check CAP 28 by switching into Pokemon that resist its predicted attacks. It also makes our pressure list significantly easier to pressure because, as stated, these Pokemon can't simply rely on resistances to successfully switch in and check CAP 28.

 

[Gleeboop]

Ok, here we go. Magic Guard is the best way to make up for our worse than average type. It allows us to avoid taking damage from the dreaded Scald burns and Blissey poisons. Its also not biased towards either side and allows us to give up hdb for another item like a life orb, allowing us to get the extra punch into our attacks without making a second legendary bug. Overall an amazing ability that can help the mon switch in and start doing stuff without making its stats absurdly high.

 

[Orig Stall Guy]

OPEN ABILITY SUBMISSIONS!

Its time boys. Ive got a couple of ideas that Ive been thinking of.

1) Trace: Ive heard a lot about Neutralizing Gas so not going to pitch this. But Trace take the ability idea in a diff direction. Trace Is a very matchup specific ability I like a lot for this concept. One of my main teams is build around a fire water grass regen pivot core. And Trace Choice Scarf Jumbao is a nightmare for it because tracing regenerator essentially gives Jumbo the ability to beat the regenerators at their own game (except it lacks a pivot move...oh well). There are matchups outside of regenerators where this Trace is great.
Switch in on a volt switch or plasma fists. Prevent a pivot and gain HP.
Fatties: If you get toxic, trace natural cure and cure poison by switching out.
Sand Rush Beat it at its own game
Levitate Equal: Make EP an even safer swithin by taking no dmg.
:Azumaril: If we go physical attacker...trace Huge Power.

There are a lot of matchups where Trace uses the pivots own ability against them. The main argument against it is because of it being matchup dependent, maybe not the best primary? But if this doesn't win primary, I will pitch it again as a secondary. Because I really like it a lot.

2) Skill Link/Technicain: Instead of trying to compensate for our lacking offensive typing through pseudo stab abilities, lets try to maximize the power of our STABS instead. Technician makes moves like Pin Missile, Scale Shot, Dragon Darts, and Dual chop hit very hard while opening the idea of other Technican moves (storm throw for coverage?) Due to some of these moves being multi hit, if reliable power is desired, then skill link goes instead. +For Max levels of salt, 5 hits moves + Kings Rock. Drop HDB to risk abusing some quality hax.

3) Anti-Burn abilities: Main concern of switching in on Slows is the burn hax of scald. This will switch in a lot throughout a game, so an anti burn ability would be great. Water Veil is lame, I want Water Veil and then some. So Comatose, Shield Dust, Guts, etc. are on the table. Taking inspiration from The Crusade, I like Comatose the most. Dragon Tail+Sleep talk is something to explore and we can switch in on fatties without fear of status. Though artists are likely to riot.

4) Filter: Not super confident on it, but here goes. This tries to compensate for the lacking def typing that is bug/dragon. Filter is amazing for the dragon type mirrors because it gives us a chance to take a dragon move and respond with a dragon move our own.

5) Magic Guard: Its Magic Guard and the CAP is weak to SR. Nuff said.