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CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 5 (Build)
- Thread starter Gothic Togekiss
- Start date
- Status
Offensive: Special
Defensive: Special
Speed: Fast
Defensive: Special
Speed: Fast
Offensive = Special
Defensive = Mixed
Speed = Medium
Since it's looking like this thing is going to be a Sunny Day user in the utmost since with abilities and all...I figure, nerf it's potential power with an average at best speed but, make it able to tank a bit with a solid defense. Also, Fire Blast and Solar Beam will hurt coming from the same thing and both getting some kind of bonus and of course a STAB.
I can't wait to see the art.
Defensive = Mixed
Speed = Medium
Since it's looking like this thing is going to be a Sunny Day user in the utmost since with abilities and all...I figure, nerf it's potential power with an average at best speed but, make it able to tank a bit with a solid defense. Also, Fire Blast and Solar Beam will hurt coming from the same thing and both getting some kind of bonus and of course a STAB.
I can't wait to see the art.
Offense:Mixed. Unpredictability is definitely nice. Flare blitz/Wood hammer with a side order of EQ or Overheat/Leaf storm topped with HP sauce, take your choice.
Defense: Special. When I hear about a chlorophyll user with mixed attacking stats, I immediately think Tangrowth, who has crap all for SpD.
Speed: Medium. If we're going to give this thing chlorophyll, it really doesn't matter on many sets, so long as it's over like 80. I personally hope we don't; every grass pokemon under the sun has chlorophyll. Solar power essentially means the same thing, but with scarf over specs.
Well, considering how things are going in the votings, I may as well take a punt a set.
Hp/Atk/Def/Spe/SpA/SpD
75/50/85/90/135/90
BST- 525
I agree that high Hp means more effecient stats, but does it really need the extra stats in other places? If we REALLY need extra stats, we can just deduct stuff from it's attack (note how many votes we have for special).
Lower HP means more effective (not efficient) sub-seed (it's another option to add, after the choice, cleric and sunny day sets). Sub-seed works nicely on this guy because many grass pokemon who come in to absorb your leech seed get their asses blasted by STAB overheat.
And for all those people who couldn't care less Sub-seed and insist on high hp.
125/55/70/75/120/70
BST- 515
Bah, humbug.
Defense: Special. When I hear about a chlorophyll user with mixed attacking stats, I immediately think Tangrowth, who has crap all for SpD.
Speed: Medium. If we're going to give this thing chlorophyll, it really doesn't matter on many sets, so long as it's over like 80. I personally hope we don't; every grass pokemon under the sun has chlorophyll. Solar power essentially means the same thing, but with scarf over specs.
Well, considering how things are going in the votings, I may as well take a punt a set.
Hp/Atk/Def/Spe/SpA/SpD
75/50/85/90/135/90
BST- 525
I agree that high Hp means more effecient stats, but does it really need the extra stats in other places? If we REALLY need extra stats, we can just deduct stuff from it's attack (note how many votes we have for special).
Lower HP means more effective (not efficient) sub-seed (it's another option to add, after the choice, cleric and sunny day sets). Sub-seed works nicely on this guy because many grass pokemon who come in to absorb your leech seed get their asses blasted by STAB overheat.
And for all those people who couldn't care less Sub-seed and insist on high hp.
125/55/70/75/120/70
BST- 515
Bah, humbug.
110/85/80/124/80/114 = 593
Ignore the fact it's 7 points from 600, I only did it to show how much in terms of base stat totals is needed to make a bulky something with enough speed to outspeed everything under the sun without any speed EVs. I'm fully aware it's freakishly high and probably overpowering, not every stat is a winner =/. IIRC Aldaron said that 110/80/80 is quite bulky for it's look.
Ignore the fact it's 7 points from 600, I only did it to show how much in terms of base stat totals is needed to make a bulky something with enough speed to outspeed everything under the sun without any speed EVs. I'm fully aware it's freakishly high and probably overpowering, not every stat is a winner =/. IIRC Aldaron said that 110/80/80 is quite bulky for it's look.
Do we really want a pokemon who relies on sunny day for it's ability to sweep? I personally don't, especially considering it means the following;
A. No choice specs.
B. You only have 3 move slots.
C. You get shut down for a turn or two if T-tar, hippowdon or Abomasnow come out (I'm guessing most people will be going solar beam over leaf storm if they use a sunny day set), and shut down completely if you go up against Revenankh (if we're counting him).
D. Your using up an 'ability slot' which could probably be used for, say, flash fire, or some new ability.
Note that A and B can be gotten around by using someone else to sunny day for you, but that screws you up even more if another weather inducer comes in.
Btw, Fire/grass doesn't have enough useful resistances to be an effective mixed wall (cressalia gets fighting, registeel is steel, etc), IMO. Besides, if we did, we'd probably make an inferior celebi, or something, since the only thing fire does for a wall is give it will-o-wisp.
A. No choice specs.
B. You only have 3 move slots.
C. You get shut down for a turn or two if T-tar, hippowdon or Abomasnow come out (I'm guessing most people will be going solar beam over leaf storm if they use a sunny day set), and shut down completely if you go up against Revenankh (if we're counting him).
D. Your using up an 'ability slot' which could probably be used for, say, flash fire, or some new ability.
Note that A and B can be gotten around by using someone else to sunny day for you, but that screws you up even more if another weather inducer comes in.
Btw, Fire/grass doesn't have enough useful resistances to be an effective mixed wall (cressalia gets fighting, registeel is steel, etc), IMO. Besides, if we did, we'd probably make an inferior celebi, or something, since the only thing fire does for a wall is give it will-o-wisp.
Lol, I didn't say 110 / 80 Def / 80 SpD was particularly bulky, just that it was bulkier than the lower HP equivalent, 90 HP / 90 Def / 90 SpD.
I'd prefer to not talk about spreads though, only because it gets people too uppity.
I'm still favoring Physical over special and mixed for the defense, with lower to medium Speed.
That is all for now.
I'd prefer to not talk about spreads though, only because it gets people too uppity.
I'm still favoring Physical over special and mixed for the defense, with lower to medium Speed.
That is all for now.
Offensive: Special: Fire Blast and Grass Knot are simply better than the physical counterparts, and a balanced pokémon cannot afford to use "just good" attacks.
Defensive: Mixed: Low (50ish) HP and high (like 110) Defenses.
Speed: Fast: 105 would be my choice.
I want a subseder that is efficient at stalling with it, not just as a means to annoy. I know there are other opinions on the matter, but this is what I want, and therefore, I'm voting for it.
Defensive: Mixed: Low (50ish) HP and high (like 110) Defenses.
Speed: Fast: 105 would be my choice.
I want a subseder that is efficient at stalling with it, not just as a means to annoy. I know there are other opinions on the matter, but this is what I want, and therefore, I'm voting for it.
Fire/Grass
Trait: Flash Fire
HP:70ish
Atk: 60ish
Def: 70ish
Spd: 60ish
SAtk: 90ish
SDef: 80ish
I picture a Solrock turned unto a flower with a Sunflora-esque body and the
Solrock-flower at the head... or something like Bellossom with Fire instead of flowers ?______________?
Trait: Flash Fire
HP:70ish
Atk: 60ish
Def: 70ish
Spd: 60ish
SAtk: 90ish
SDef: 80ish
I picture a Solrock turned unto a flower with a Sunflora-esque body and the
Solrock-flower at the head... or something like Bellossom with Fire instead of flowers ?______________?
CM Clefable says hi to that, since if the pokemon had 50 attack (Lower would probably counted as twinking), you'd end up with 100 special attack, if you were to keep to a BST of 525. Your movepool would probably be Grass knot, Overheat/Fire blast, Substitute and Leech seed. She comes in on essentially anything (Arcanine, who also has 100 base SpA deals a maximum of like 68% with Overheat to Max Hp/Min SpD cleffable, if she comes in on anything else, she can keep softboiling until you A. Run out of pp or B. Run your SpA into the ground if your using overheat), you can't do anything to her, and she just CMs up or encores your switch in (or, of course, stalls out your pp). Utility Armaldo probably also says hi. And if it goes through subs, so do taunt users (it does on shoddy).
EDIT: Everyone wants low hp, high defenses because they want to see a really awesome sub-seeder. And why'd we want 101 subs? 101 subs is only really awesome to take down seismic toss blissey (no-one else normally uses seismic toss), and sub-seed with lower hp does that better, since you regen more than you lose each turn.
EDIT: Everyone wants low hp, high defenses because they want to see a really awesome sub-seeder. And why'd we want 101 subs? 101 subs is only really awesome to take down seismic toss blissey (no-one else normally uses seismic toss), and sub-seed with lower hp does that better, since you regen more than you lose each turn.
Right my 1st try for a Base stat spread
My spread:
HP: 60
HP does affect subseeding, and i dont realy think we need to try to give it exelent defences to go along with its great STABS and good Sp. attack.
Attack: 85
I have given it a somewhat useable attack stat so it could use a supprise CB Flare Blitz/Wood Hammer set or even a mixed set if you pump its attack evs.
Defence: 100
Good enough to take resisted hits well, and the odd nutral STAB attack but it will not be extremely bulky unless you give it a good dose of HP evs.
Sp. Attack: 120
With STAB Overheat, Fire Blast, Solar Beam, Leaf Storm and Grass Knot at its disposal (probably most of them anyway) it does not need heatranesque Sp. attack, infact with 135 base sp. attack and decent defences I could see this thing being overpowered.
Sp. Defence: 105
A bit more Sp. defence than Defence, but it will not be takeing powerfull STAB or SE hits lightly without large EV invetment.
Speed: 65
The hardest nummber to chose... I picked 65 as with a Clorophyll boost it will reach a maximim of 458 without a nature boost, with a nature boost it reaches 502 faster than most Deoxys-S, but without any EVs it will reach 166 (332 with a clorophyll boost) meaning it will not be able to run a set that is bulky, very fast under the sun, and has powerful Sp. attacks at the same time. However without a Clorophyll boost it can only get to 229 or 251 speed, so sunless sets will be have to rely on bulk rarther than defences to play well.
If fast wins I will change the speed.
Total: 535
It has the same BST as Magnezone, Crobat and Tangrowth, it has 1 more point then Typhlosion, Charizard and Inferenape, 5 less then Kingdra.
Overview:
60/85/100/120/105/65 (Speed last)
Total: 535
With this stat spread, Clorophyll/Solar Power as ability choices a decent movepool we could make the Kingdra of Sunny day teams, enough Sp. Attack to dent all but the best Sp. walls and those who resist it, enough attack so that mixed and CB sets are not total gimicks, good defences so can take the odd powerful hit but low enough HP so will not be tanking without some EV investment.
Oh and I put in low HP/High defences so you could have EV spreads like this 252 HP/ 170ish sp. attack/80ish speed. Bulky on both sides with good Sp. attack, and speed if its in sunshine. With high HP you have to split EVs. Also i did not want this thing to be overly bulky.
What do you all think of my Base Stat Spread?
I think this could be our best pokemon yet.
My spread:
HP: 60
HP does affect subseeding, and i dont realy think we need to try to give it exelent defences to go along with its great STABS and good Sp. attack.
Attack: 85
I have given it a somewhat useable attack stat so it could use a supprise CB Flare Blitz/Wood Hammer set or even a mixed set if you pump its attack evs.
Defence: 100
Good enough to take resisted hits well, and the odd nutral STAB attack but it will not be extremely bulky unless you give it a good dose of HP evs.
Sp. Attack: 120
With STAB Overheat, Fire Blast, Solar Beam, Leaf Storm and Grass Knot at its disposal (probably most of them anyway) it does not need heatranesque Sp. attack, infact with 135 base sp. attack and decent defences I could see this thing being overpowered.
Sp. Defence: 105
A bit more Sp. defence than Defence, but it will not be takeing powerfull STAB or SE hits lightly without large EV invetment.
Speed: 65
The hardest nummber to chose... I picked 65 as with a Clorophyll boost it will reach a maximim of 458 without a nature boost, with a nature boost it reaches 502 faster than most Deoxys-S, but without any EVs it will reach 166 (332 with a clorophyll boost) meaning it will not be able to run a set that is bulky, very fast under the sun, and has powerful Sp. attacks at the same time. However without a Clorophyll boost it can only get to 229 or 251 speed, so sunless sets will be have to rely on bulk rarther than defences to play well.
If fast wins I will change the speed.
Total: 535
It has the same BST as Magnezone, Crobat and Tangrowth, it has 1 more point then Typhlosion, Charizard and Inferenape, 5 less then Kingdra.
Overview:
60/85/100/120/105/65 (Speed last)
Total: 535
With this stat spread, Clorophyll/Solar Power as ability choices a decent movepool we could make the Kingdra of Sunny day teams, enough Sp. Attack to dent all but the best Sp. walls and those who resist it, enough attack so that mixed and CB sets are not total gimicks, good defences so can take the odd powerful hit but low enough HP so will not be tanking without some EV investment.
Oh and I put in low HP/High defences so you could have EV spreads like this 252 HP/ 170ish sp. attack/80ish speed. Bulky on both sides with good Sp. attack, and speed if its in sunshine. With high HP you have to split EVs. Also i did not want this thing to be overly bulky.
What do you all think of my Base Stat Spread?
I think this could be our best pokemon yet.
If we're doing 525 base stats...
Flash Fire
HP: 104 | 349-412
Atk: 77 | 190-253
Def: 77 | 190-253
Spd: 62 | 160-233
SAtk: 109 | 254-317
SDef: 96 | 228-291
If it's a Sunflora looking Pokemon (slightly more offense than defense)
[something else]
HP: 74 | 289-352
Atk: 93 | 222-285
Def: 105 | 246-309
Spd: 76 | 188-251
SAtk: 86 | 208-271
SDef: 91 | 218-281
those stats are neutral natured from 0-252 evs
Flash Fire
HP: 104 | 349-412
Atk: 77 | 190-253
Def: 77 | 190-253
Spd: 62 | 160-233
SAtk: 109 | 254-317
SDef: 96 | 228-291
If it's a Sunflora looking Pokemon (slightly more offense than defense)
[something else]
HP: 74 | 289-352
Atk: 93 | 222-285
Def: 105 | 246-309
Spd: 76 | 188-251
SAtk: 86 | 208-271
SDef: 91 | 218-281
those stats are neutral natured from 0-252 evs
Offensive: Special
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Medium
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Medium
My idea for base stats
HP: 87. Relatively high, but not so high that it sucks at sub-seeding
ATK: 78. About 70% as high as SAT, works...
DEF: 99. Workable defences
SAT: 112. Slightly more than Swampert's but hey, can't be too precise
SDF: 99. Must be the same as DEF
SPD: 60. It's Swampert's SPD, and it does superbly at tanking
Total: 535: Exactly the same as Swampy, YAY! =D
HP: 87. Relatively high, but not so high that it sucks at sub-seeding
ATK: 78. About 70% as high as SAT, works...
DEF: 99. Workable defences
SAT: 112. Slightly more than Swampert's but hey, can't be too precise
SDF: 99. Must be the same as DEF
SPD: 60. It's Swampert's SPD, and it does superbly at tanking
Total: 535: Exactly the same as Swampy, YAY! =D
Offense: Special
Defense: Mixed
Speed: Medium
Defense: Mixed
Speed: Medium
What is the big deal about Subseeding "needing" low HP? It may be somewhat good for gaining some more relative HP back with Subseeding, but it's downright bad for everything else, and it hardly matters as much for Subseeding as most other factors do anyway.
Not even mentioning that Celebi is a great Subseeder. Or that we are doing a main Fire type.
Not even mentioning that Celebi is a great Subseeder. Or that we are doing a main Fire type.
Overheat, Leafstorm, HP Ice/Ground/Rock, Leech Seed
What can counter this? (especially if Earth Power is an option)
Blissey is not a counter. Leech Seed will force it out or keep this pokemon alive.
What can counter this? (especially if Earth Power is an option)
Blissey is not a counter. Leech Seed will force it out or keep this pokemon alive.
Care to link the post, because I just checked all your previous posts and not a single one made mention of any calculated totals for defensive values. I believe this makes you the one spreading false information. I did find this though, where you admit low hp is good for subseeding.
1) I specifically mentioned "being a generic wall" as the only thing it helps. But so as to not be argumentative, I'd like to know the exact equation you used to calculate earlier so I can run some numbers myself on the effects of various values.
2) As I said before, you did not state numbers before, and after looking through all your posts none were found. Perhaps you meant to post them and didn't, or thought you did yet it didn't load properly. I don't know, but they aren't there.
Sucking HP at a higher percentage DOES make it more efficient/effective. If the opponent can break your subs either way due to defensive values, then being able to absorb 19%+ per turn is infinitely more valuable than only absorbing 6%. 19%+ essentially gives you back all your HP from the sub, unless there's weather or poison in effect.
As I said above, if they're taking out your subs anyway, then recovering 19% over 6% will determine whether you get all your subs off, or just 5-6. If you recover 12% a turn after leftovers, but use 25% per sub, you're net lossing 13% a turn. This means you'll not be able to sub after 6 turns I believe. How can you subseed if you can't sub?
Oh, and one more thing after reading your debate with Deck Knight. This thing, if it becomes special, could end up ridiculously powerful just because of the movepool it has access to. The potentially lower effectiveness of the defense spread could be a way to balance it a little.
Agreed, especially since the next thread is either BST or the stat spreads themselves.
Perhaps this was the point of contention we were having earlier?
If we were back in typing I'd agree, but unfortunately it's either the next poll or the poll immediately after, so it has to be done sometime.
Honestly I don't care that much if this has low or high hp. I was rather tired and irritable last night so I was looking for a debate. I'd like to see the formula you used for the defense worth so I can construct my own spread and such.
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