CAP 32 - Part 6 - Defining Moves Part 2

[snake]

CAP 32 So Far

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In this stage, we will develop sets of moves that will meaningfully affect future stages of the process for this CAP. These moves will need to be addressed in the stat limits and stat submission stages in order to contextualize submitted spreads. For example, a stat submission that elects to choose stronger Defining Moves will be put under heavier scrutiny than those without them. The chosen Defining Moves should be considered essential to the CAP's concept and/or chosen role. Defining Moves does not necessarily exclude moves from consideration in the Movesets Discussion, so not all of the CAP's viable moves need to be decided in this stage. The Movepool SL will organize these moves into the following lists:

1. Required: Stat spreads (or other future stages) must account for this move, these moves, or a choice of moves.
2. Optional: Stat spreads (or other future stages) can elect to use this move, these moves, or a choice of moves.

Moves that can be chosen as Defining Moves should be in the following categories:

• Boosting Moves
• Recovery Moves
• Extraordinary STAB Moves (only moves with strong ability interactions, moves with strong secondary effects, and high-Base Power moves that might be relevant for stat calculations)
• Extraordinary Coverage Moves (only moves with strong ability interactions and moves that directly affect our concept)
• Strong Priority Moves
• Strong Utility Moves (self-switching moves, hazard setting/removing moves, status-inflicting moves, etc.)

The TLT has the final say over which moves fall into which category, if they belong to one at all. Controversial moves or placements in lists can be sent to poll if the Movepool SL deems it necessary.

Please do not polljump by talking about specific stat spreads or suggest specific secondary abilities.

 

[shnowshner]

Okay we back

With the conclusion of our polls, Pixilate is CAP 32's primary Ability, and now it is time to review our list of defining moves. As a refresher, here is the preliminary list from part 1 verbatim:

• Standard STABs (Moonblast, Draining Kiss & Play Rough: Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Overheat, Lava Plume, Flare Blitz, Eruption, and Inferno) and implied STABs (depends on Ability, e.g. Extreme Speed for Pixilate or any non-signature slicing move for Sharpness)
• One of U-Turn/Volt Switch/Parting Shot/Chilling Reception
• Knock Off
• Status-inducing non-attacking moves (Wisp, Thunder Wave, Sleep moves)
• 50% Recovery or Strength Sap
• At most one of Bitter Blade/Torch Song/Lumina Crash
• Non-signature moves from one of the following coverage types: Electric, Ground, Psychic, or Rock.

This second part is tentatively going to be a bit shorter than the first, since we already did some work. I don't have much else to say for the moment that isn't better phrased as a question, so let's jump right into them!

1. What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?
2. For our defining moves list: what should stay and what can we let go of? Which moves are not necessary or too strong to consider as we transition into the stats stage?
3. Are there any moves we may want to add that weren't included originally?

 

[snake]

What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?

The two standouts are Extreme Speed and Boomburst. Extreme Speed is a massive asset to physical sets and makes CAP32 have a clear niche over other Fire-types, as it would be able to check Roaring Moon, Iron Valiant, and Dragapult even with an average attack stat. Without Extreme Speed, I don't really find physical sets compelling to pursue honestly. Boomburst, on the other hand, give special oriented sets a massive power boost that cannot be realized with Moonblast. Even if Boomburst isn't the most optimal route, it cannot be understated how good of an option it is to "overcome" our average stats.

Two other (less important) Normal-type moves we could examine are Double-Edge and Hyper Voice. Double-Edge is basically overall best physical move we can give to CAP32. The extra power makes it feasible to run both it and Extreme Speed on the same set and still gain massive value from both moves. Hyper Voice is a specific option if stat spreads deem that the relative power between CAP32's Fairy-type moves vs its Fire-type moves needs to be similar. For example, Fire Blast is 94% as strong as Pixilate Hyper Voice and 65% as strong as Pixilate Boomburst. Whether or not we can push the special attack stat to make Hyper Voice worth it is still a question, but not a question to be answered in this stage.

For our defining moves list: what should stay and what can we let go of? Which moves are not necessary or too strong to consider as we transition into the stats stage?

Regarding removing moves: The current list still looks pretty good. Questioning if Inferno has a place on this list since No Guard wasn't selected as the primary ability - it's otherwise just a 100 BP special move.

Regarding keeping moves: Knock Off should absolutely stay. I think it's a key element to making physical sets work very well here. Bitter Blade and Torch Song are also really good moves in combination with Pixilate-boosted moves, so they should still remain as options as well.

I might answer Question 3 at a later time. What I will say, though, is that physical boosting like Swords Dance alongside Extreme Speed does NOT align well with the offensive pivot role we chose earlier in the project. That is, physical boosting + Extreme Speed would turn us primarily (if not fully) into a sweeper. Thus, I would be hesitant to advocate physical boosting to be added as defining moves. Torch Song + Boomburst, on the other hand, is more reasonable because Boomburst doesn't have priority. Wallbreakers align slightly better to offensive pivots than do dedicated sweepers.

 

[TyloDK]

1. What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on rapid spin. I think it can fit well into the role of offensive pivot, and, as far as I can tell, it's a very rare unblockable hazard removal. Being able to spin against Gholdengo is cool, and being super effective spin against Great Tusk is funny (even though it's not gonna be doing much damage).

It also gives us an extra application of the ability, besides using big powerful fairy moves.

 

[LouisCyphre]

There's one Normal-type attack in particular that would let CAP32 overcome middling offensive stats to leave a lasting impression: Explosion!

Chunking a higher-stated Pokemon that thought it could set up on CAP32 for large damage, and letting a teammate safely replace them after, fits "offensive support" to a T. Whatever CAP32's sets end up looking like, this move would have a home on them as an insurance policy for your team's momentum.

 

[ausma]

What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?

Speaking holistically, Boomburst and Extreme Speed are the most obvious and most impactful. Pixispeed is a powerful strategy, even without a great Attack stat. Having the ability to seamlessly threaten a free KO against Pokemon like Roaring Moon and Iron Valiant is no joke, and is by itself easily enough to secure us a niche on offensive structures due to the sheer threat-factor these Pokemon pose against them. Boomburst is the epitome of playing to BP to offset middling offense, and with Pixilate transforms the option into something comically spammable that must be respected. With middling offenses and our inherent weaknesses (wanting HDB as an offensive pivot and struggling into Fire-types) both of these are phenomenal but far from broken. Alternatively Double-Edge is a more obviously balanced burst option due to the recoil but is definitely not as spammable as either of these two for that same reason.

As previously mentioned, Rapid Spin I think has the potential to be a really interesting option, too; not one I expect to see run as a staple, but being able to have unblockable Rapid Spins is really huge in a Gholdengo metagame and a very sweet niche just for the sheer utility of it. Aside from threatening Iron Valiant and Meowscarada and clearing hazards in one move though I don't have much hope for offensive applications, especially if we have Extreme Speed.

There are two Normal-type moves I want to add to the table for discussion: Hyper Drill and Body Slam. Hyper Drill with Pixilate acts as a fairly respectable alternative to the snapped Return, with the added (albeit highly niche) bonus of sniping Protect/Baneful Bunker, making it a reliable solid damage-dealing option with no drawback. Body Slam, alternatively, has the ability to spread paralysis, which is extremely relevant considering our primary switch-ins in Iron Moth, Skeledirge, and Venomicon are debilitated hard by paralysis odds. This kind of pressure on Venomicon as a physical attacker is particularly of note. If we deem Extreme Speed a balanced option, though, I don't expect it to be run often, but I think it's worth mentioning regardless.

For our defining moves list: what should stay and what can we let go of? Which moves are not necessary or too strong to consider as we transition into the stats stage?

It aged pretty good, but seeing as Torch Song is here I still really have to reiterate how much I dislike it given our role and concept. We have likely too low immediate power to make it a worthwhile independent option throughout the game, and losing boosts simply by doing our job as an offensive pivot is really awful considering we really would want to keep those boosts more than other Pokemon. The reason Skeledirge makes such incredible use of the move is in part to the fact that it has the durability and strength to continuously use it throughout the game; we don't have that privilege.

Are there any moves we may want to add that weren't included originally?

I want to advocate to add Armor Cannon to the list, as it's a move I was a bit baffled to see missing. On paper, sure, it's silver platter Fire Blast, but we appreciate that luxury quite a bit. It is a very honest yet highly reliable option with great BP to offset our middling offenses, 100% accuracy (which matters a lot tbh) and a drawback that is rarely significant given that we are primarily aiming to force opponents out and accrue progress or create momentum. The defense drops into the matchups that matter are either ones we end automatically by threatening an OHKO with Armor Cannon/our other Fairy-type STAB, or we are most likely underspeeding such that the defense drops don't come into play proper.

I am a believer in Taunt as well for reasons I've discussed in depth originally (blocking recovery and keeping progress intact), but I also want to suggest Stealth Rock and Spikes. It's true that we aren't a dedicated offensive hazard setter, but being able to lay hazards is still pro-concept nonetheless as we can consistently and steadily accrue residual damage and make ourselves more threatening in the long run. This is especially true since Pixilate opens the door for some potent end-game tools. We've seen hazards fit well on offensive pivots, namely Meowscarada; generally they work well because we force switches with our offensive presence anyway, and can still pivot throughout the game after we set them and make our end-game all the more promising while supporting other offensive teammates.

 

[the mystery duck]

What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?

Extremespeed, Boomburst, and Population Bomb seem to be the three that show promise. The priority from the former can help CAP 32 stand out from other OU mons, and the latter two are strong enough on their own to propel this mon's damage to the standard of its competition even with low or average attacking stats.

For our defining moves list: what should stay and what can we let go of? Which moves are not necessary or too strong to consider as we transition into the stats stage?

Depends on if there is a defining moves part 3 for secondary ability or not. The answer to that would determine if moves like Draining Kiss, Eruption, and Inferno can be let go here or the list being fine as is.

Are there any moves we may want to add that weren't included originally?

With Pixilate, Explosion and Self-Destruct can do enough damage with an average attack that I think they should be included here.

 

[Mova]

I'm going to agree that Explosion, Extreme Speed, Boomburst, and Population Bomb seem pretty promising for what we want in Pixilate. They're pretty strong attacks for the typing, not making us worry about physical Fairy STAB so much otherwise. PopBomb forces us to run Wide Lens over Boots, though.

 

[bigtibba]

What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?

Obviously Boomburst is going to be a part of the discussion. It's the single strongest BP no-drawback move in the game, yet it rarely sees any use. Most Pokemon that receive it either don't receive STAB or have a pitiful special attack stat such as Swellow. Boomburst seems great on paper for CAP 32. Perhaps the best way to remedy low stats is high base power moves after all. However, I am strongly against its inclusion. I get that the definition of offensive pivot is a bit loose, but Noivern of all Pokemon was deemed too strong of a wallbreaker in AAA with a measly special attack stat of 97. This is even further compounded with the addition of Terastallization, which boosts Aerilate (or Pixilate, in this case) Boomburst to even more ridiculous power. The only potential solution, in my mind, is to severely limit CAP 32's special attacking stat, at which point why even bother with any fire STAB or coverage moves at all. Additionally, STAB Pixilate Boomburst is almost twice as strong as STAB Flamethrower, and the only relevant 4x Fairy resists also resist Fire, so Fire STAB might not even be worth it anyway. Alternatively, we could go the mixed attacker route, with lower special attack and higher physical attack, but I just don't think it's worth it. Our stats are already low enough already without having to haphazardly invest into two different attacking stats.

I am, however, high on Extreme Speed. Part of the role of an offensive pivot is forcing switches, which strong priority such as Pixilate E-Speed would certainly help with, especially against threats such as Dragapult, Iron Valiant, or Roaring Moon. In the absence of setup moves, I don't think this move would turn CAP 32 into a sweeper either. The threat of Pixilate E-Speed also effectively helps its other roles as a pivot, as it could easily set up Spikes or Knock Off the opponent's switch-in.

Double Edge might not be used much, but it'd be nice to have some strong Fairy STAB that isn't E-Speed.

Also like to quick throw out Rapid Spin. While Equilibra is probably going to remain the premier spinner in the tier, this move has a solid niche for the sole reason that it's impossible to spinblock. May not make it onto every set, but it's certainly a nice option to have in my opinion.

For our defining moves list: what should stay and what can we let go of? Which moves are not necessary or too strong to consider as we transition into the stats stage?

I definitely think we should keep the standard STAB options. I don't see any reason to restrict any moves that a Fire/Fairy type normally gets, especially with our mediocre stats. Parting Shot is probably the most useful switching move of all our options, so I think that should be kept. The only Pokemon that can block the move is threatened by our Fire STAB. Not a fan of U-Turn, as Venomicon can pretty much switch in for free on us anyway, and I don't know if Volt Switch's damage is enough to overcome the ground immunity and Parting Shot's benefits. Chilling Reception seems too niche for any real use.

I definitely think we should keep Knock Off, as the only type that resists both Fire and Fairy usually runs Boots. A 50% recovery move is definitely useful for an offensive pivot, especially if used to recover recoil from moves such as Flare Blitz or Double Edge. Additionally, I'm also in favor of Taunt. Strength Sap is a move I'm tentatively in favor of. Since CAP 32 is going to have weaker defenses, it makes sense that it'd want to have a recovery move that recovers more HP, obviously. However, if it does get Strength Sap, I don't think it should learn Wisp, and vice versa.

Of the three signature moves up for discussion, I think it should only keep Bitter Blade. Even though we haven't decided on physical or special yet, I still feel like physical is our best option. Torch Song seems counterintuitive to the role of a pivot, and Lumina Crash feels a bit too strong. Additionally, as an offensive pivot, Bitter Blade is useful to heal up damage accumulated throughout the game. Flare Blitz might end up being the superior Fire STAB, but this one is certainly nice to have.

In terms of coverage moves, I think Stone Edge is useful, both to aid with the poor Venomicon matchup and provide coverage against Fire types, who resist both our STABs. There are far too many other options to discuss here, but that one in particular stuck out to me.

Are there any moves we may want to add that weren't included originally?

I'd like to advocate for Spikes. While usually hazard setting is relegated to bulky Pokemon, Greninja and Meowscarada are prime examples of how useful offensive pressure is while setting Spikes. This is further supported with Pixilate E-Speed, an option that may force switches, allowing for Spikes to be set up for free.

 

[Karoshi]

1. What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?
3. Are there any moves we may want to add that weren't included originally?

CAP as a whole does not have any shortage of Hazard Control (9 CAP with Rapid Spin and 4 CAP with Defog). That said there must be something said about Pixalate + Rapid Spin. Unlike normal users who can be spin blocked by Ghost, CAP25G who can be spin blocked by Ground, and Defog users who can be punished with Defiant; this move + ability combination gives CAP32 a niche of being a more reliable spinner. Regardless of if we choose to be Physical or Special orientated we should take this into consideration.

The other two moves I would like to advocate for are Taunt and EXPLOSION. Taunt for helping us as a pivot to deal with defensive Pokemon and disrupting opponent's plays and Explosion for letting us nuke any opposing Pokemon ala Mega-Glalie and giving utility as a Suicidal Pivot and maintaining momentum.

 

[mark6870]

1. What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?
   The elephant in the room is Extreme Speed. The benefits to this is we threaten a wider array of threats even ifthey are faster than us. This also allows for us to dump less of our valuable BST into Speed when the Stats stage comes around. Other obvious suggestions include Double Edge and Boomburst for their high power, and Explosion for **TECHNICALLY** being the most powerful pivoting move.
   
   Pixilate Population Bomb is pretty funny, considering one of the most common Helmet users in the tier, Corviknight, are afraid of our Fire stab. It's still a bad option, though, because for Pop-bomb to be effective you're restricted to using Wide Lens, and since we're a pivot weak to rocks we'd probably want to go for Boots in our item slot.
   
   
2. For our defining moves list: what should stay and what can we let go of? Which moves are not necessary or too strong to consider as we transition into the stats stage?
   I think the slate is fine for now, but my opinions may change if/when others bring up good points.
   
   
3. Are there any moves we may want to add that weren't included originally?
   Fake Out is great for chip damage and has other uses such as breaking sashes on lead mons/breaking Dragonite's Multiscale.
   Spikes, as we can take advantage of the switches we force to set up hazards. In particular, Spikes works to our benefit because we wear the opposing team down for our own clean late-game.
   Unblockable Rapid Spin could potentially be useful, but may not see use since we don't want to come in on any of the setters.
   Strength Sap, as it's almost objectively better than 50% recovery.
   Teleport is still a very powerful tool, but i can understand the apprehension on a mon like CAP32. Slow pivoting may not work for it.

Below are some mock movesets i've thought about depending on which moves get slated/ I did this mostly because it's fun to think about but it also helps with understanding how each move proves useful to CAP32 specifically:
Spikes/Boomburst/Torch song/Volt Switch (or uturn, parting shot, etc)
My biggest issue with Torch Song is that it's pretty weak for our main STAB. With Boomburst, however, it doesn't NEED to be as strong since Boomburst provides all the punch. A potential set like this could turn CAP32 into both a pivot and a cleaner, setting up Spikes to wear an opponent down and during the late game getting a boost or two from Torch Song to clean things up after Spikes. Volt Switch is becuase we're a pivot before all else and if something switches into a Torch Song they'll have to take a +1 Volt Switch after the Torch Song chip.

Extreme Speed/Flare Blitz/Morning Sun/Teleport
MnM Arc at home, this set keeps our offensive prowess while also making use of the defensive merits of our typing. A set like this would lean even harder into the anti-Jumbao propaganda even more so than CAP32 already is. Coming in on a Jumbao and sponging all of its hits, getting a free slow pivot, and even getting extra healing from Morning Sun. Outside of that, it would also defensively check Iron Valiant and Roaring Moon and offensively threaten a whole slew of 'mon

Fake Out/Double Edge/Bitter Blade/Spikes
Kangaskhan, is that you? But seriously, Pixie Fake Out deals decent priority damage while making the foe flinch, making it proficient at chipping frail and fast targets. Pixie Double Edge does heavy damage, but becuase recoil may become an issue, I chose Bitter Blade as our Fire STAB, allowing us to heal off chip and recoil damage while also dishing out damage in one moveslot. Spikes as our last option because if we're making a gucci version of Kangaskhan might as well give it spikes Spikes in conjunction with Fake Out create heavy chip damage for our opponents, putting them in range for Double Edge.

Spikes/Taunt/Explosion/Flare Blitz
Very simple spikes lead. who said we ONLY had to pivot?

 

[Amamama]

1. What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?
2. For our defining moves list: what should stay and what can we let go of? Which moves are not necessary or too strong to consider as we transition into the stats stage?
3. Are there any moves we may want to add that weren't included originally?

1) Honestly the only ones that really interest me are Extreme Speed. Boomburst is really nice to look at to mitigate low SpA but fairy type priority is 98% of why I think this ability is good for 32.
For that reason I think fake out and quick attack are lower power options which will be interesting for the stats stage.
While using lower power for our attacks is somewhat contradictory to the concept, the added PP are a nice trade off, that should be considered.
Explosion is stupidly funny as the most permanent pivoting option available, both capable of forcing huge damage even onto resists and creating free turns for teammates all for the small price of your own life.
Body Slam gets an honorable mention as a fairy type move which can make progress against fire and poison types.

2) Atm the only move that can go is Lumina since it doesn’t really feel like theres a lot of synergy here and lumina plus Pixilate boomburst is actually really stupid plus we still don’t know stats or secondary ability, which could make other options still interesting.

3) As I Said Quick Attack and Fake out should be added as they can serve as moves that leave more power budget for stats abilities and movesets than Extreme Speed does and still would be great options to have.
Explosion is the funniest funny button to have and a great pivoting move.
For fire type moves Heat Crash should be added as a „free“ 120BP Physical fire move.
While Flare Blitz is functional and for stats it’s mostly the same, determining and setting a competitive weight early means artists don’t get screwed as much, when we make this a 999kg Extreme Speed user.
Lastly Taunt is an interesting option to allow 32 to make progress even against very bulky mons running recovery.

 

[CharSiuEmboar]

1. What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?
Rapid Spin (unblockable Hazard Clearance), Body Slam (Paralysis), Extreme Speed (Priority), Hyper Drill (ignores Protect - signature tho), Population Bomb (Multihit - also signature), Raging Bull (breaks screens - also signature), Retaliate (140BP +Pixilate forces opponents to potentially lose momentum or be revenge KO'd), Super Fang (doesn't get boosted, but unblockable %age damage) are all moves with merit under Pixilate. There's also Yawn, for Spore-lite that can't be blocked by Grass.

Will answer the rest later, sorry something's just come up.

 

[faithviolet]

What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?

The two Normal-type moves that overshadow the rest are Boomburst and Extreme-Speed. I think our stats should be calculated with espeed in mind, and possibly Boomburst.

For Boomburst, having such a high base power move will allow CAP 32's SpA to be truly average, while only feeling the pain for its fire STAB moves. This way, we can partially fulfill the spirit of the concept while still threatening massive damage into the general metagame. Since the fire-type attacks are most important when super effective, against, for example, Jumbao, Equilibra, and Gholdengo, this isn't much of a sacrifice. On the other hand, Boomburst does push us heavily into the damage burst role on a team, which may be too simple an answer to the concept's questions.

On the side of Extreme Speed, having a 104 priority move before STAB lets CAP 32 threaten many revenge kills, which works very well with its offensive pivot nature. The metagame has several fast Pokemon that are weak to Fairy (Roaring Moon, Garchomp, and Iron Valiant) which may threaten us if we lack priority.

Are there any moves we may want to add that weren't included originally?

Explosion. Very offensive, gives a free switch-in, which is good for the pivot role.

 

[thundergoos]

What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?

It goes without saying that Boomburst and Espeed are the most impactful here, with the most practical uses in picking off threats (like revenge killing or outright forcing out things like Pult, Moon, Valiant, potentially Dnite if multiscale is broken, etc.) with 104 BP Pixiespeed, or in sheer bombastic power in Boomburst’s high damage ceiling. These two moves are the essence of defining here and demand serious discussion.

I do want to echo Snake for a moment and appreciate the potential of Double-Edge and Hyper Voice. Double-Edge is pretty much a physical nuke counterpart to Boomburst, just a bit less powerful and with the drawback of recoil. Hyper Voice is basically Boomburst at home, but it’s still a strong option when compared to other stab moves. Fake Out and Rapid Spin have also been mentioned for their utility, and their usefulness in a pivot kit are undeniable. I do wonder how often Fake Out would get used though, especially considering the plethora of other options already in our kit that are frankly astronomically better. Rapid Spin is great utility that automatically provides a small niche. Quick Attack was also mentioned, but to be honest I don’t see a world where this would ever get used if we had Pixiespeed in the same kit.

Body Slam is a particularly interesting case for disruption purposes, and I honestly quite like it a bit more than the nuke power of Double-Edge (though both can coexist in the same toolkit). A 104 BP stab fairy move that has a 30% chance to inflict para is kinda nutty, and would be quite fun to play with. On the opposite bias of this, Tri Attack is a very interesting option that I’ve not seen mentioned yet in this thread. This move is a potentially better mirror of Body Slam in that it’s got the same BP but with a wider variety of status that could be inflicted. Personally, I think Body Slam might be a tad better specifically because it’s more focused in what it does, but it also depends on what attacking bias we’re more favored in. To that effect, I think it’s definitely possible for us to create a decently serviceable mixed attacker here, especially with the threat of Pixiespeed, but I do worry about how feasible that is with our limited statline.

For our defining moves list: what should stay and what can we let go of? Which moves are not necessary or too strong to consider as we transition into the stats stage?

I don’t know that there’s much that we necessarily need to drop other than maybe Inferno, since we’re not going with No-Guard and it doesn’t really do anything other than add flavor as a move 32 can get. Chilly Reception, however, is something I think we can stand to get rid of. I really don’t like it on 32 personally, and I think it’s worthy of noting that if we proceed with a more physical attacking bias, setting snow for our pivoting move could prove to have some anti-synergy with our offensive kit in certain matchups. Take for example, a hypothetical scenario where we Chilly Reception out and the opponent sends in an ice type like Bax. We come back in to threaten it out, but now we likely don’t reliably OHKO it with Pixiespeed or Double-Edge since it’s got the defense boost from snow. It’s a very specific scenario, sure, but it illustrates a potential problem with running snow as a primary pivoting move. It’s not focused enough in my opinion and it might hinder us more than it could help. There are better options available anyway.

Are there any moves we may want to add that weren't included originally?

Other than the moves suggested above in the normal type moves section, I don’t know that there’s much else we really need. Taunt would of course be useful, but I wonder whether it might be a bit much with everything else already in our kit. Speaking of which, I believe that everything else already in our kit (aside from Inferno and Chilly Reception) should be kept. I am firmly in the camp of highlighting Strength Sap over other recovery options; it’s far and away the best possible recovery move we could get and I think it should remain a defining element of our kit. I also think Amor Cannon deserves some discussion. I don’t know where I sit on it at the moment — especially with respect to the question of what offensive bias we may end up with — but I would love to hear other people’s thoughts on it.

I personally am not a fan of Population Bomb here. I won’t deny that its potential power ceiling is frankly ludicrous, but its inconsistency puts me off to it. Maushold generally has to run either Wide Lens or Loaded Dice to make the move work considering its lower accuracy and chance-based hit count. In the most favorable conditions, Pixilate-boosted Pop Bomb is definitely an absolute nuke. But said conditions practically demand a specific item to be used in order to maximize the move’s potential. We already are practically cursed with the need to run Boots 24/7, so we don’t really have the luxury of an item slot dedicated to a single move.

 

[BreloomBuddy]

What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?

Quick Attack stands out to me. With priority and higher power over many other priority moves, alongside consistency and a powerful unique offensive typing for a priority move, it helps fit the role of an offensive pivot, as Pixilate Quick Attack can generate a lot of pressure and momentum. I specifically recommend Quick Attack over Extreme Speed, as this move can already be extremely broken on thing without an -ate ability, and lower power can still give us everything we need while keeping balance. I would also like to point out the move Body Slam, hitting with about 102 base power and having a very nice 30% paralysis chance can definitely help the offensive pivot role, as even a resistant target could be reluctant to switch in for fear of debilitating status. Rapid Spin, as mentioned before, could be an interesting asset, providing better speed control outside of priority, and utility. Notably, it would make this Pokemon a great Gholdengo check, able to hit it super-effectively and clear hazards against it. However, I don’t think this move fits too well with the concept of an offensive pivot, as taking the time to clear hazards can cause a loss in momentum. On the other hand, the power behind Pixilate Rapid Spin could prevent such a loss of momentum. On the special side, I do thing Boomburst would likely be too strong, unless it were given a lower special attack stat. Hyper Voice seems like a good option, due to high power and the ability to bypass substitute while not hitting quite too hard. Another move I find to be interesting is Double Hit, hitting twice with a total of 84 base power. While this is not a lot, is has some interesting interactions with Substitute and Focus Sash. Headbutt could be another useful option, allowing for a 30% flinch chance.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?

Extreme Speed is the big one here. Strong Fairy priority is a great way of forcing out faster threats such as Roaring Moon, Iron Valiant, and Dragapult without needing to worry about our bulk (Which we likely won't have a whole lot of).

Double-Edge and Hyper Drill are also decent moves that act as STAB options. They don't personally do all that much impressive, but they get the job done and they do it well. I think there is a debate on which would be the better option here, but for now I would just like to include them both.

Boomburst is a really funny move, and it singlehandly keeps a Special route on the table in my opinion. The sheer power of Boomburst not only gives us a fairly solid niche out of the getgo, but it also helps alleivate the stage stat quite a bit by allowing weaker spreads to be viable.

Explosion is a very interesting option here. Many people on Discord have brought up the similarities similarities Explosion CAP32 would have to DPP Boomtran, and I personally share their sentiments. There is a lot of value to be gained by giving a Pokemon a guarnteed safe switch-in oppurtunity, and the fact that does as much damage as a nuclear bomb is very nice as well.

Population Bomb is a horrible idea. I'm not going to sugercoat anything, the move is broken. There is little risk to using the move outside of maybe forcing us to use Wide Lens instead of Boots (And even that is arguable, especially since you could always just not do that and "risk" missing instead) and that is simply not a big enough drawback to give a 200 BP move a thumbs up.

For our defining moves list: what should stay and what can we let go of? Which moves are not necessary or too strong to consider as we transition into the stats stage?

Moonblast and Play Rough probably aren't nessecary anymore since both of them, especially Play Rough, are simply just outclassed by Pixilate-boosted Normal Moves. I also think Inferno and Eruption could go since they don't really synergize all that well with us anymore since we know what our ability is going to be now.

In terms of stuff I think would be too strong, Ground coverage stands out. Pixilate is a very strong ability, especially when we already have access to Fire STAB to deal with Steel-types. Having access to Ground coverage I fear would break us open fairly easily, since it's incredibly generic in how it deals with any of our otherwise would-be switch-ins. I'm not against the idea of giving ourselves coverage, but giving a Pokemon with an already powerful ability and offensive typing access to coverage that let's it not only hit almost everything for at least neutral, but hit pretty much all the Pokemon that resist its STAB super-effectively is a recipe for disaster.

Are there any moves we may want to add that weren't included originally?

Heat Crash is probably the most relevant move here that we could add to the list. If we make ourselves about as fat as binpin's mom (I could't pass up the oppurtunity), we can essentially use this move as a Flare Blitz that doesn't have recoil, which is signficiantly helpful for our role. It's also nice since it doesn't really hurt any of our existing matchups either, since all of the Pokemon right now that weigh 200kg or more are either stuff that is weak to the move anyways (Jumbao, Iron Treads), stuff that we can hit with our Fairy STAB (Roaring Moon, Great Tusk, Colossoil), or stuff we already don't have a good matchup against (Skeledirge, Garganacl). Competitively, I really don't think there are any major concerns about going with this move, and I'm also not super concerned about the effect it has on artists since they would know ahead of time that we would be extremely heavy anyways.

Other moves I think we could get a lot of value from are Stealth Rock and Spikes. We've seen from plenty of examples of in the past of how Pivots can get a good amount of value from access to hazards, and given that we at least threaten most of the tier's hazard removal, I think it would be foolish to not at least consider these moves. Taunt is also something that could be nice, since a lot of our switch-ins are fairly passive.

Also Armor Cannon here isn't really nessecery. I wasn't a big fan of it in the first defining moves stage to begin with, but now that we know our ability, I'm even less sold on it. The benefit of having the move over Fire Blast is extremely minor, especially when it's likely that it won't even be our main attack thanks to Pixilate Boomburst being on the table. Also, I personally think the downsides of the move, while aren't huge, are still fairly relevent here just due to how it affects certain matchups, and losing out on some of the defensive value given from our typing is never fun either.

 

[Brown4Sides]

What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?

Extreme Speed is the absolute best option IMO. Focusing on Extreme Speed instantly makes us viable and gives us a clear, distinct niche, in providing much needed speed control for Iron Valiant and Dragapult. I would also support Rapid Spin, more hazard removers are always nice and being able to spin against Ghost types is amazing, even if we already have Caribolt which can do that.

No other Normal moves really interest me. Body Slam at best is a 30% chance to cripple various checks when we have options that can deal with them 100% of the time. It also does nothing to improve our Garganacl matchup. Fake Out I don't see being used much when we have much better moves we could choose from. Populatiuon Bomb is far too strong for us, regardless of whether our item is boots or Wide Lens. Boomburst is probably the best option out of anything that isn't Extreme Speed or Rapid Spin, as it is very pro-concept and would make up for our likely not great special stats. I just think that the speed control of Extreme Speed is too valuable to pass up.

For our defining moves list: what should stay and what can we let go of? Which moves are not necessary or too strong to consider as we transition into the stats stage?

All the standard Fairy moves like Play Rough and Moonblast can go, since our Pixelate Normal moves pretty much outclass them. Inferno is also useless without No Guard and should go as well. Everything else can stay.

Are there any moves we may want to add that weren't included originally?

Hazards, such as Stealth Rock, would be something we appreciate as an offensive pivot. The relevant hazard removers are weak to our STABs as well. Not much more to say on this front as other users that are in favor of hazards already explained it pretty well.

 

[Brambane]

For Normal (Fairy): You pick one Double-Edge, Boomburst, or Hyper Voice to focus on when designing your stat spread. Double-Edge is our strongest reasonable physical option. Boomburst vs Hyper Voice really comes down to how much power you want to pump into Fire STAB.

ExtremeSpeed should make the list regardless imo, even with middling Attack the move is incredibly niche for hitting Roaring Moon for 4x SE damage. Quick Attack is a substitute to allow for a little more flexibility in the stats stage imo.

I am fond of Explosion, but it isn't something to really focus on. I think its a great inclusion to see if its a consistently good option, since offensive Explosion users are pretty rare since Gen 5. It is also, of course, mostly used as a pivoting move these days.

All the other moves we mentioned can stay imo. I am personally less fond of Armor Cannon than the other options, but not enough so to dismiss it.

Heat Crash and Fire Lash should be added. Heat Crash is simply better than Flare Blitz since we decide CAP32's weight and can just boost it to 120 BP. I would lean more into it if we focus on Double-Edge so CAP32 doesn't end up killing itself too quickly. Fire Lash is just good move, probably should have made the list earlier. Makes CAP32 a better breaker without needing set-up, so it doesn't necessarily sweep. Seems ideal for our role.

 

[Sawyer.]

Without poll-jumping, I think there are four basic requirements for CAP32's moveset:

1. Extreme Speed
2. Fire STAB
3. High damage output attack (allowing CAP32 to pressure bulkier team structures)
4. Pivoting move

Boomburst or Double-Edge are viable options for damage output, but either one would leave us with a heavily constrained moveset. If we wanted to run Knock Off, Taunt, Strength Sap or any of the other interesting options that have been suggested, it would be at the expense of our pivoting move, which is far from ideal.

To alleviate this 4MSS issue, I think that Explosion is a superb option for CAP32. It massively increases its threat profile against bulkier teams, arguably moreso than even Boomburst, and also acts as a one-time pivoting move. This really frees up CAP32's 4th moveslot, making it more unpredictable in battle and also allowing for a lot more creativity for us as a community.

 

[quziel]

Stuff that I Think Will Heavily Influence Stat Spreads
Insane High Power Moves that Completely Warp Stats

Boomburst

Extreme Speed

Sleep

These two are our premiere options. These are the moves that will force you to lower your attacking stat by 15-25 point to make it balanced, these are also the moves that get us onto a team. Look at literally every Espeeder ever, look at AAA Scream Tail. I'm also including Sleep moves here cause they did get a bit of a mention, though I'm really not attached to having them as defining moves if noone else cares.

Moves that are Important and Have Some Effect on Stats.

Spikes	Torch Song	Explosion	Strength Sap
Bitter Blade	Nasty Plot	Fire Lash

This category is a list of moves that I think are important, but honestly don't really change BSR by more than 5 points. They're all strong options, and imo should be on the list of defining moves, but I don't see them heavily warping stat spreads the way Boomburst and Espeed do. Spikes seems very central to some playstyles, and has been shown to work very well with existing offensive pivots (SM Gren). Torch Song and Nasty Plot give the special variants significantly more breaking power, and I believe are allowable due to like, special not having priority, thus keeping us in a partially pivoting role, but I would accept one of these being argued against. I'm specifically not including Swords Dance, as I believe that it, combined with Espeed, fully shifts us out of a pivoting role, in a way that special versions cannot really achieve.

There's a few high power moves here, in Bitter Blade and Explosion, but for the former I don't believe it is gonna force us to nerf stats super hard to use, and for the latter I don't think we realistically have to change stats at all, as like, if Explosion can't OHKO stuff why the hell are you using Explosion.

Moves that Should be on the Defining Moves List Because we Need them to Calc Damage or Benchmark Sets but Realistically don't Affect Our Strength.

Fire Blast	Recover
Hyper Voice	Stealth Rock
Double Edge	Parting Shot
Flare Blitz	Volt Switch
U-turn	Knock Off
Heat Crash	Fake Out

This is a list of moves that I think we can assume will have at least some options on every set, but realistically we will not have to lower stats one iota to include. Recover is a cool tool, but realistically it doesn't require us to sacrifice a single bit of BSR, same with Fire Blast. They're just relatively safe options that we probably like, but again, I don't think a single move on this list forces us to lower power at all. I'm almost definitely forgetting something, but w/e. Despite being about equivalent with Flare Blitz in terms of overall strength, Heat Crash should almost def be mentioned here due to its strong impact on our weight. All three pivoting moves are here, as they're important to our role, but honestly you're not lowering stats for their sake.

Moves that I Feel Don't Effect Stats, Aren't Important Enough to Include in Calcs, or Conflict with My vision for the Mon
Formatting hates me so the table is below this time. Blame Xenforo

These are moves I've seen mention that I feel either don't really fit well with our role, are unimportant, or don't play well with My vision for the mon. I don't think Hyper Drill or Armor cannon are so much better than Double Edge and Fire Blast that they reach the level of defining moves. That doesn't mean they can't be in our eventual movepool, but defining moves isn't a shopping list, its a list of moves that have some effect on the stats stage, and imo these don't. Hyper Drill has been shown to be worse than Double Edge on Caribolt, a mon that likely needs power as much as we do, so I don't really believe in it much here. Armor Cannon is just very slightly better than Fire Blast, and not so much better that it reaches defining moves status if Fire Blast is already there. I wouldn't mind if we just said "one of Fire Blast or Armor Cannon", but I don't think its transformative here.

Play Rough and Moonblast are strictly worse than Pixilate stabs, and given that stats is before ability 2, imo we can just say they'll be in final movepool, and they have no need to be on the defining moves list, as I don't think anyone will realistically be doing calcs with these two. Body Slam is just too weak for us, Rapid Spin on a rocks weak pivot makes little sense, and Self-Destruct is just worse Explosion. Population Bomb finally is just a painfully inconsistent move given that we're never running Wide Lens on this mon, and I'd prefer to do calcs with the far more consistent Double Edge.

Hyper Drill	Rapid Spin	Moonblast
Play Rough	Self-Destruct	Body Slam
Armor Cannon	Population Bomb

 

[viol and bass]

I really don't think Population Bomb should be allowed here. That move is unbelievably inconsistent and introduces a huge element of randomness that is not healthy for the meta. It's incredibly powerful at its strongest, and pitiful at its weakest, and you never really know what you will get. It's also basically substantially weaker Explosion against helmet users. Just please let's not.

Explosion on the other hand is a cool option that we should totally allow here. I'm not sure to what extent it affects calcs since you expect it to do big dommage in exchange for being literally dead after but I don't think we should ignore it I guess?

 

[Explosion Badger]

What Normal-type moves do we want to focus on that have promise versus the metagame at large?

Extreme Speed and Boomburst are the two biggest contenders to look at here. Each bring an incredible amount of power to us, especially with a pixilate boost, and between Espeed's high power priority and Boomburst's raw power, there's not much else that I can say about these moves that hasn't already been said about them. with that in mind, I want to go over some other options that are available and have been brought up.

Hyper Voice is the next best option for damage after Boomburst, and while it's significantly less powerful, Pixilate at least gives it a power level similar to Fire Blast. This also means that, rather than our Fire type coverage being forced to share the same SpA as Boomburst, a move that will most certainly affect our stats, we can instead give this mon Hyper Voice if we want our fire STAB to be as equally strong as our fairy STAB.

Quick Attack is in a similar position to Hyper Voice, being the weaker version of Extreme Speed, but it also seems far less useful here. Considering 32's movepool already has some slots that it wants to be filled, having to run both a weak priority move and a stronger STAB option eats up two slots that ExtremeSpeed fits quite well into one. Double-Edge faces a similar issue, but its higher power over Extremespeed at least grants it an advantage over Espeed in the form of raw damage.

Explosion is a cool high powered move. Population Bomb is not. Having the ability to unleash a 300 power Explosion with STAB is undeniably incredible, and considering how discussion about hazard setting before proved positive, having access to a lead setter that could get hazards up and boom is something worth considering. Population Bomb, on the other hand, has a chance to be an overbearingly strong 240 base power move after Pixilate, or an embarassingly weak 24 power move. It's a move that's completely dependent on RNG, and having to balance 32 for the chance of it getting those 10 hits, only to risk getting a much lower roll, is not worth it in the face of more reliable STAB options.

Fake Out is an interesting move to consider, as being able to combo free priority damage into another attack can both guarantee certain thresholds are met and make opponents switch out of fear of being comboed. Rapid Spin, though, feels like it adds very little to us in general. the speed boost and hazard clearing are neat tools, but its most likely that 32 won't want to come into hazards setters as it is, especially not ones like Great Tusk, who can remove its item or blast it away with ground STAB.

For our defining moves list: what should stay and what can we let go of? Which moves are not necessary or too strong to consider as we transition into the stats stage?

Standard STABs: With Pixilate on the table, Moonblast and Play Rough have lost most of their reason for discussion, as we have access to much stronger (and in Play Roughs case, more reliable) STAB options. Inferno is also off the table for the most part, as it is functionally useless without No Guard. Any implied STAB's for abilities other than Pixilate are, of course, also off the table.

Pivoting Moves: Chilly Reception is probably the one pivoting option that I'd say is off the table. Considering that our fire STAB benefits from harsh sunlight, it doesn't seem like a fantastic idea to remove any possible boosts we have to our offensive potential, especially with how much budget our fairy STAB might take from our offensive power.

Signature Moves: Truthfully, I still don't like Torch Song or Lumina Crash for this mon. taking time for setup seems very unhelpful to our role as a pivot, and I'd much rather use STABs or Coverage that do more upfront damage or have more lasting effects.

Coverage Moves: Without Esurge to boost their power, Electric coverage has lost its spark for the most part. The ability to hit our switchins is done better for the most part by Psychic.

Are there any moves we may want to add that weren't included originally?

Heat Crash and Fire Lash are both useful physical moves to consider, although Fire Lash does fall behind for me due to the same reasoning as Torch Song. Stealth Rocks and Spikes are also useful moves to consider, as they bring some more support capability that our offensive presence could allow us to take advantage of.

 

[StarFalcon555]

I'm going to go against the grain here and advocate against Explosion. It's a very cool move for our role and works really nicely with our ability, yes, but the added bonus damage from Pixilate does make me worried that Explosion will make it a little too easy for us to break through our checks and counters. I remember Astrolotl having Explosion removed from its moveset when it got its big nerf, and the primary reason given was that the synergy between Fire Lash's defense drops and Explosion's insanely high BP made Astrolotl able to take out opponents that should have checked it with just a couple of defense drops. My worry is that the 1.2x power increase on Pixilate Explosion will cause a similar problem. I still like the idea behind it, but I think if we're going to go that route, Self-Destruct would be the better option due to its lower BP.

252+ Atk Pixilate Talonflame Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garganacl: 235-277 (58.1 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Pixilate Talonflame Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 204-241 (64.7 - 76.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Talonflame Explosion vs. 252 HP / 40+ Def Skeledirge: 171-201 (41.5 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Talonflame Explosion vs. 252 HP / 140 Def Equilibra: 175-207 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Pixilate Talonflame Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Venomicon: 177-208 (47.3 - 55.6%) -- 77.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Talonflame Explosion vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Corviknight: 136-161 (34 - 40.3%) -- 74% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Just some food for thought here :3

I also want to discuss another move that I'm surprised hasn't been brought up here, and that's Fake Out. It's a lot less powerful than Extreme Speed, yes, and only works on your first turn out, but I still HIGHLY prefer it over Quick Attack for that guaranteed flinch chance. We can come in, Fake Out, and either force a switch or get a free pivot. If we force a switch, Extreme Speed/Boomburst/Fire STAB is still on the table, not to mention our coverage moves. If we pivot out, well, that's progress, baby!

And PLEASE no Population Bomb it's just too powerful, plus the fact that it'd encourage us into using Wide Lens or Loaded Dice, which is TERRIBLE for a rocks-weak pivot LMAOOOOOOO

 

[viol and bass]

I'm going to go against the grain here and advocate against Explosion. It's a very cool move for our role and works really nicely with our ability, yes, but the added bonus damage from Pixilate does make me worried that Explosion will make it a little too easy for us to break through our checks and counters.

Breaking through your own checks and counters is problematic when it means you can freely clean up and sweep the opponent's team. However, if Cap32 is breaking or denting its own checks with Explosion in particular, it's not suddenly an uncheckable threat who can clean the rest of your opponent's team because... it's dead. Maybe the thing you dented was a problem for the rest of your team, and you are certainly drawing out and denting the Venomicon or whatever, but regardless, it's a skillful and calculated play with some risk. We're not suddenly sweeping with Extreme Speed, because we are no longer on the field (unless 32 + Pawmot is the new wave I guess). If we become truly an unwallable breaker, that might be problematic for its own reasons, but I don't think Explosion really does that.

It's also functionally a pivot move.