CAP 34 - Part 3 - Typing Discussion

[mark6870]

Type rate time

Electric/Fighting is really interesting, and probably my new favorite combo for this build. In comparison to Psychic/Fighting, it hits Cresciedon, Corviknight, and Gholdengo harder. All of the mon that it has a harder time against (Pult, Gliscor) can be easily dealt with by Ice coverage. It also has a valuable Dark and Electric resist meaning a resistance to Thunderclap and Sucker Punch. It also has an immunity to Paralysis which is definitely a boon for a sweeper.

Psychic/Water: not a fan honestly. It doesn't do anything that Water/Electric can't, and Water/Electric does everything Psychic/Water does better. They both hit Venom, Great Tusk, Libra, and Argh, but Water/Electric also hits Cresciedon while having that Paralysis immunity I was glazing Electric/Fighting for.

Psychic/Steel: I also don't see the hype for this typing. It's defensively fine, great even, but offensively, it's kinda meh. It's not that it can't hit stuff, it has broad neutral coverage, but for broad neutral coverage I'd rather go with Poison/Dragon, which has more threatening STAB with sludge bumb and Clanging Scales, as well as not being weak to Dark types.

Water/Poison: It's good. It's not my favorite but objectively it's a great typing. Solid STAB in Sparkling Aria (hydro if we have clangorous) and Sludge Bomb, useful resistances, and is one of our better Psychic Noise abusers.

Water/Electric: Electric is a solid offensive typing for this process, as Ive mentioned before, and when you pair it with one of the most consistent typings to ever exist in a video game, that combination is good. Surprise to no one. Paralysis immunity, water/electric/ice coverage is literally perfect (until volt absorb Lanturn becomes OU), and solid defensive profile. I prefer Electric/Fighting because I personally find that more interesting due to the prospect of going mixed, though.

Fire/Normal: This is the only typing I feel that really doesn't need Clangorous Soul. Not every typing needs it, but Fire/Normal is easily the most successful without it IMO. The coverage here is insane, STAB Boomburst plus Fire STAB means only fat rock types can wall you and thar archetype doesn't exist in OU. Although I've come around on Clangorous Soul I can't help but really like this typing for its uniqueness. Just don't look at the defensive profile. don't look

Poison/Dragon: probably the second best for neutral coverage. Sludge Bomb and Clanging Scales plus Fire coverage hits so much for neutral. I don't have anything new to say about it. Good offense n defense.

 

[Moomany]

Sup folks, been a while.

I just wanted to throw my support behind Psychic. I just think it'll work best with the supporting moves and overall setup for the build. I don't really need a reason to support it, I just like Psychic in this mon's build.

I'm no expert, but if you ask me I'd say that from a design standpoint, Psychic/Dragon or Psychic/Electric sounds neat here. I'm not an overly analytic person, but with the supporting moves it seems to be something that could work here. Show love or hate for these type combos, doesn't really affect me.

I also just don't like Fire for this mon. It's literally just... no, red flags, no thank you.

 

[quziel]

We're a pokemon that has ultimately one chance to do what we can, and also one where getting forced out is going to significantly reduce our overall potential. A pokemon like Kingambit is fine with just setting up SD, getting a KO, and then swapping out because it can come in later. The same is true of Hemogoblin, where it can come in, threaten an Espeed revenge kill, and then just switch out if they go Venomicon. This is not possible here, whether we're pure Throat Spray, or also using Clangorous Soul, being forced out means we're essentially crippled, and beyond that, using some of our best moves locks us in.

With that said, I'm of the opinion that we should not have a STAB combo that hard blanks into some of the tier's most common special walls. If we're an Electric / Psychic type then I think we're going to think very carefully about how we're getting past both Libra and Ting-Lu. With all that said, here are some typings that I think fall under this category:

Dragon / Poison
Electric / Psychic
Poison / Psychic
Psychic / Dragon

I think that this typing could work very well, but my major worry is that CAP 34 would get overshadowed by Krillowatt. I understand that Krillowatt is an offensive pivot and CAP 34 is meant to be a sweeper, but Krillowatt is a very powerful mon that can easily fill a similar role on a team with less limitations for when it can be used in battle.

I don't really agree here. Krilowatt is a mon that fits on precisely one style of team, being spikestack balanced squads, and we're not making that kinda mon. If I'm reading the trends we';re working with here, we're probably gonna make a mon that fits on well, hard offense, filling a similar kinda slot to mons like Valiant, Iron Moth, and Hawlucha, and like, we're really not competing that hard with Kril.

 

[Gekokeso]

Not entirely sure if I am too late but I did want to throw a bit more support towards Water Poison.

I have seen the multiple arguments made for typings like Water Electric or Water Steel but for me Water poison leverages its advantages against the meta the most effectively. Its true that CAP 34 will most likely be switching extremely few times in a match due to being an instant sweeper, but out of all the water types I have seen proposed so far I believe this one gives out the most opportunities to do throughout a match.

In terms of initiating a sweep Water Poison is really good at pressuring a lot of the pokémon trying to switch in just by using its stabs. With exceptions like Clodsire or Mollux, the great mayority of the meta is discouraged to switch in due to the combination of the threat of a sweep using a move like Sparkling Aria to activate the throat spray and the poison that could be spread by its poison stab, which also happens to be able to hit a lot of water type resists for at least neutral damage. Even in the case of a particularly tough matchup, Water Poison is able to make little amounts of progress without even having to commit to a full sweep at the beginning or middle of a match, which can either be exploited by its teammates or itself whenever it actually commits to beginning its sweep. The lack of a reliance on its coverage to be able to hit most of the meta for super effective damage means its able to Leverage more offensive options like Encore or Substitute.

Its defensive typing also could be argued to be the best out of other options. Even when not taking into account its terrific matchup against public enemy number one Hemogoblin, Water Poison shares a lot of characteristics with a typing mentioned a lot in this thread in Water Steel. Both typings offer a poison immunity and key neutralities / resistances to typings such as steel, water, poison, fairy among others. While Water Steel has a couple more advantages like a rocks resistance and a poison move inmunity instead of resistance, it is held back a bit by its fire type neutrality which can prove detrimental when dealing with structures like sun, as well as a weakness to fighting which just happens to make it very vulnerable to a significant part of the meta which runs it as coverage (Gholdengo, Venomicon). Water Poison takes this weaknesses and flips them on its head with resistances to them, allowing itself to switch-in way more consistently into a larger amount of threats to activate throat spray and make progress.

Other Typings I support:
- Fire / Normal
- Water / Psychic
- Electric / Fighting

 

[viol and bass]

I know it might be too late to really be considered, but I wanted to suggest one other typing, Grass/Electric. It has some of the benefits of Water/Electric (electric STAB for mons like book, secondary stab that hits grounds, immunity to para, water resist), but it's more resilient to common priority, resisting grassy glide and thunder clap. It also offers the really interesting Clangorous Soul + Giga Drain combo, allowing you to heal up and potentially boost again. It has a better matchup defensively into mons like Ogerpon-Wellspring and offensively into mons like Krilowatt.

It also pairs really nicely with Alluring Voice as an alternative activation method to hit the dragons that wall your STABs. Cool typing.

 

[ausma]

Hello everyone! I am finally back and I am here with the thing you've all been waiting for: the type slate!

I have to say that the quality of discussion here has been excellent all around. One of my favorite parts of CAP processes is this stage in particular, where everyone puts together what we've learned to push forward unique and fun combinations of types to create for a very hands-on, creative discussion. This process was no different, with people all bringing to the table really awesome ideas that really forced me to think critically about what we've chatted about to cover as many bases as possible while maintaining quality. The fact this was challenging is proof that you guys brought some awesome ideas to the table, so thank you!

The slate is as follows:

Water/Electric
Water/Poison
Dragon/Poison
Fighting/Electric
Psychic/Fighting
Fire/Electric

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Water/Electric has proven itself to be the most popular choice in the thread, with many people expressing high praise for it, and for good reason! Its offensive profile is excellent and comes packed with two competent sound moves to give it very good autonomy in activating our Throat Spray. Defensively it is no slouch either, with only two weaknesses, an important immunity to Paralysis to give us leverage into Cresceidon, and highly relevant resistances in Fire-, Ice-, and Flying-type moves to give it solid entry points. It's an extremely honest option that comes with great intrinsic qualities that blend offense and defense in a highly relevant way for how we aim to utilize Throat Spray.

Relevant Moves: Sparkling Aria, Overdrive

Water/Poison is a variant of Water/Electric that leans closer toward finding more aggressive entry opportunities by maxing out our resistance profile. This typing gives us flexibility into big threats like Venomicon, Iron Moth, Primarina, and Hemogoblin with its insane resistance profile while not sacrificing a secondary STAB to cover the sound move's weak point. Although only having one sound STAB, it's a very competent one with no immunities and comes with an excellent secondary typing to complement it, and makes solid use of Psychic Noise as coverage. While still having a very respectible offensive presence, the primary draw really is those resistances, which gives us an undeniable amount of room to leverage ourselves with and maximize the needed opportunities to set up.

Relevant Moves: Sparkling Aria, Psychic Noise

Dragon/Poison is a STAB combination that demands your respect, and is easily the best option for Clanging Scales enthusiasts. While it may thud into Steel-types, this typing's ability to threaten the Fairy-types immune to Clanging Scales is an excellent boon for it as a Throat Spray activator. However what propels it to the slate is the defensive utility it adds to the equation. Dragon/Poison comes with great resistances that can be of aid into Pokemon like Iron Moth, Ogerpon-Wellspring, and dangerous priority options like Rillaboom's Grassy Glide, the latter of which standing out given Clanging Scales's drawback.

Relevant Moves: Clanging Scales

Fighting/Electric leans more into offense, but still maintains solid resistances into important priority like Kingambit's Sucker Punch and Raging Bolt's Thunderclap, all wrapped up in the nice bow that is a Paralysis immunity. This type combination offensively is no slouch in spite of these useful defensive qualities, however; in fact, it's arguably one of the stronger ones, only really needing one other option at most to hit a vast majority of the tier super effectively to force switches and clean efficiently once it gets in.

Relevant Moves: Overdrive, Psychic Noise, Clangorous Soul

Psychic/Fighting leans pretty much entirely into offense, packing only a Rock- and Fighting-type resistance and neutralizing Sucker Punch/U-turn. However, because it commits to offense, it commits hard. Out of all of the Psychic-type options, this type combination is best suited to taking advantage of Psychic Noise as a STAB with a secondary Fighting-type to smite most Steel- and Dark-type switch-ins. Psychic-types may resist its dual STAB combination, but these are uncommon, if not exploitable. Although it may not come with much defensive utility, it does demand your respect and can take the most advantage out of clicking Psychic Noise.

Relevant Moves: Psychic Noise, Clangorous Soul

Fire/Electric has a really promising spread, with resistances into nearly all relevant priority options and a highly potent dual STAB combination that can threaten super-effective (or at least neutral) damage on a majority of the tier. It is certainly a volatile option though and while it may have a tantalizing blend of offense and defense, does pack awkward weaknesses and resistances that don't superbly synergize into the metagame's best options. This can make setup fickle, but its unique resistance profile is still very useful. Its resilience into priority is unmatched in this slate, and it still packs very nice resistances into Pokemon like Hemogoblin, Clefable, and Caribolt to leverage setup. Of the many Fire-types discussed in the thread, this is easily the best choice for our build.

Relevant Moves: Overdrive

___

While I'm here, I want to answer a concern I'm sure will be common: the general lack of Psychic-types on this slate. Having STAB on Psychic Noise is a very obviously nice caveat, but the issue I have with most Psychic-types is that they are trying to pair with secondary types that don't complement it offensively too well just to offset its defensive shortcomings. Psychic as a typing here commits to offense by nature; this is why Psychic/Fighting was the only Psychic-typing that I slated, because it commits the hardest to offense–the Psychic-type's best strength in this context–and imo would make the most effective use of Psychic Noise as an offensive tool while not augmenting weaknesses in an awkward way like pretty much every other alternative. Water/Psychic was a fairly popular option that I waffled adding to the slate a few times, but ultimately I decided against it for that reason. It was trying too hard to mix in resistances, while not having too much inherent synergy with the Psychic-type. In practice, you wind up with a weakness to nearly every relevant priority move and having resistances that didn't quite offset the issue of its weaknesses when trying to prepare for a sweep, with a STAB combination that isn't even all that great.

To be clear, this is not a death sentence for Psychic Noise. In fact, I still adore it for this concept; it is an incredibly fascinating and fun option that I believe deserves more serious consideration. However I do think it works more consistently as coverage, which several of the slated options could feasibly make use of!

Thank you all again for having me! Tagging dex for approval.

 

[dex]

Slate good. Good slate. Vote now.