CAP 3D Modeling Project

[QxC4eva]

Hello every one. Name is BushWhack and I am new to this site. My primary skill is Cycle Animations. I'm willing to help out however I can.

Thank you,
BushWhack.

Welcome to hell. :D Uh yeah there's definitely stuff you can help us with! Here's a few I can remember:

• Mollux needs an animator who can do morph shape animation for the lava lamp (link)
• Crucibelle is open for an idle animation collab (link)
• There's been agreement give Krilowatt a zappy animation (link)
• Mega Crucibelle model is being worked on, I think it'll be ready for animation in about a week (link)

Btw the OP is outdated, so look at this spreadsheet for who's working on what:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eTFNovDH8mva8ikD8tpBqm1YbZsz7O2zTWPxjzfuiTo

Technically you can reserve anything marked <vacant>, but I think it's fair to let the modellers finish the wireframe and have them decide first. So stick around there's might be other jobs in the future!

 

[BushWhack]

Welcome to hell. :D Uh yeah there's definitely stuff you can help us with! Here's a few I can remember:

• Mollux needs an animator who can do morph shape animation for the lava lamp (link)
• Crucibelle is open for an idle animation collab (link)
• There's been agreement give Krilowatt a zappy animation (link)
• Mega Crucibelle model is being worked on, I think it'll be ready for animation in about a week (link)

Btw the OP is outdated, so look at this spreadsheet for who's working on what:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eTFNovDH8mva8ikD8tpBqm1YbZsz7O2zTWPxjzfuiTo

Technically you can reserve anything marked <vacant>, but I think it's fair to let the modellers finish the wireframe and have them decide first. So stick around there's might be other jobs in the future!

Okay cool, I'll start off with Mollux I guess. Where is the link/download to get the updated Mollux's files?

 

[QxC4eva]

Alright here's the revamped Mollux model. I'll wait another day for QC if not I'll get straight to the UVs and rigging, so BushWhack can start animating!

• Triangles: 9104 (before) --> 2348 (now)
• Vertices: 4561 (before) --> 1194 (now)

Here's the obj file.

The only thing I'm not so sure about is the tentacles. I had a few tries making them straight but it's really hard shaping it so it curls into a decent looking spiral when rigged, so I decided to keep them curled up as it is. I also made all of them curl backwards like the main drawing. I know the sprite and model sheet have the front tentacles curl forwards and I tried that, but IMO the body shape flows better when they curl backwards.

Quanyails I did only two major changes but ended up almost completely rebuilding your model, so apologies for that. My first task was to attach the legs back to the body, but the body was a bit hi-poly so I rebuilt that. And to fix the double-sided shell, I just made a new sphere and stretched it up. Guess what? That's the whole model already! :|


---
On a side note I started playing around with Cyclohm for the cloud effect. Might post a WIP in a week or so.... :D

 

[Quanyails]

QxC4eva: I think you did a great job with the tentacles, and I trust your decisions on your rendition of Mollux. :) I am curious, though, how you're planning to handle the lava lamp with a single-sided shell? Also, how far are you with Tomohawk? I was thinking it'd be great for PS! if that model was rendered.

I'm taking a course on 3D animation this semester, and I may be able to crank out a CAP model as an assignment. I've been using your UV mapping guide, and I've been really impressed by the Smooth UV tool over the regular Unfold tool or other methods. Keeping UVs symmetrical, for one! One question I have regarding UVs is how to emphasize certain faces and proportions?

 

[QxC4eva]

I'm working on Tomohawk's rig but it's very low priority with CAP 21 still going and Mollux being needed for animation. Here's what it looks like right now.

Blame me for ambitions when I first claimed it this 3D modeling project wasn't serious back then. x_x I'm still grouping the vertices into clusters for the skeleton to be placed on. I haven't even calculated how many bones there'll be in total yet......guessing might be around 450 to 500, maybe even more. After I'm done with the binds I'll have to set up dynamics to drive certain parts of the skeleton (mostly for the feathers) and I've been reading up on that. Honestly this is something I can only make progress if I spend 24/7 on it, right now I'm going at most a few hours a day. Once things get easier for me I'll be able to finish up the animation and renders.

In other words, I'm very sorry for Tomohawk's lack of progress! - to everyone especially CAP players on Showdown :(

For Mollux I think a double thickness shell makes it harder to control the shaders, it's probably easier doing it single. I was thinking of using a few render layers for the lava lamp:

1. the back face of the glass wall - flat purple color
2. the lava blobs - flat yellow color: placed directly over layer 1
3. the lighting of the blobs: multiplied onto layer 2
4. facing ratio pass (AKA the cosine ray normal camera): I'll use this layer to displace the blobs so they look bigger in the middle of the lamp and thin out towards the edges, like there's a refraction
5. the front face of the glass wall - purple color: transparency blended over layers 1-3
6. the lighting of the front wall: multiplied onto layer 5
7. specular pass: added on top of the final image, to give it a gloss effect so it looks like glass.

So yeah, nothing too demanding for the textures. I should just need a diffuse map and another map for the specular intensity. Maya / mental ray can automate the other stuff like facing ratio and normals so we don't need texture maps for them. Considering that and the simplicity of Mollux's color patterns, I ended up not paying much attention to the UV size. :P Here's the UV map:

And here's the obj file with the UVs added.

BushWhack I'm going to start rigging the head and legs. For the stuff in the shell it's all up to you, but let me know if there's anything I can help!

I'm taking a course on 3D animation this semester, and I may be able to crank out a CAP model as an assignment. I've been using your UV mapping guide, and I've been really impressed by the Smooth UV tool over the regular Unfold tool or other methods. Keeping UVs symmetrical, for one! One question I have regarding UVs is how to emphasize certain faces and proportions?

OOO animation class that sounds fun! Be sure to teach us some tricks, okay? c:
For UVs I mostly try keeping everything the same size with a checker pattern. If you need to emphasize certain parts like the face, I suggest marking more seams around it. The smooth tool will make faces near the seams bigger since that's how the "physics" of UV mapping works. Having more seams means you're near the edge of a UV island so there's plenty of free space for it to expand (if that makes sense)

 

[DJTHED]

I haven't even calculated how many bones there'll be in total yet......guessing might be around 450 to 500, maybe even more.

Wh-... Holy crap. Don't you think this rig is, like, REALLY overdoing it? Remember, we're essentially making video game models, not a CG ready model for $50mil CG movie. I know you want it to look nice... But... I dunno... I feel you should also make a simpler rig alongside this. Instead of 7 joints on the front of the thing on its head, make it like one. Every tuft on its torso should probably only have 1-2 joints depending on length. And instead of like 12+ joints on the main part tail I feel there should only be five or so. Etc. Etc. If you want to create an incredibly complicated rig for high quality renders, go for it. But I highly recommend you tone it down for the PS render... A lot.

 

[Jack Ferry]

In other words, I'm very sorry for Tomohawk's lack of progress! - to everyone especially CAP players on Showdown :(

Cant speak for everyone else but I really don't mind the timing too much. I would rather you take your time to make Tomo the best you can.
Stay strong 3D model gang I am loving it all.

 

[QxC4eva]

Thanks for moral support. :)

Mollux is rigged and ready for animation. I start to regret not making the neck totally straight though.
The source files are here (I included the Maya .ma since BushWhack animates in Maya, might as well save us some trouble) I'll get the textures done soon.

Hey BushWhack please come back!! O_O
*sends PM to spam his email*

Wh-... Holy crap. Don't you think this rig is, like, REALLY overdoing it? Remember, we're essentially making video game models, not a CG ready model for $50mil CG movie.

Well then be glad I charge nothing for such an expensive model :D

The number of joints won't matter that much. If I animate selectively, it'll behave just like a simple rig.

But dynamics flows better with more joints that's why I have it like that.

 

[Quanyails]

I totally appreciate how particular you're involved in this project, QxC4eva, I really do. Posting tutorials for the various parts of the modeling pipeline, setting up a Pokemon-style shader in Maya, and making a script to render the outlines in Crucibelle's hair go beyond all expectations!

Hence, while it's great to see the progress you've made on Tomohawk, I find myself agreeing with DJTHED here. It's great that you want to make an incredibly detailed rig, but I don't think this is the right place for it yet. A lot of the details you put on the rig will probably be irrelevant on the render. Even if it is futureproofing, I would rather have a simpler rig first so we can have a rough draft of the render before making a complex version. We don't have to get the model/render perfect the first time, so we can make a more polished render with an updated rig at a later date. I'd rather not have another model that was well on the way to completion be held up by rigging details (Pyroak), hence why I'm asking for you to reconsider. v_v

 

[DJTHED]

Might I add that I also still think any simulation (not sure what dynamics flows is, but I can only assume that it's indeed part of a simulation of some kind) of any kind shouldn't be done, with maybe the exception of Mollux's lamp. I feel it all should be animated manually for any Pokemon model that could be in a 3DS Pokemon game (not that these would be), which certainly can't be too hard. I mean, I guess manually animating it is a bit more time consuming, but I still get detail animation done pretty quickly as long as there's only just a couple bones on each of the detail parts.

I also disagree with animating certain bones selectively to imitate a simpler rig. No, that's not really going to work very well. It'll make the tail look more low poly than it actually is due to the bones not distributing the vertex weights as evenly and having more sharp creases because of it for example. The example you gave with the two bones looks the same as the one with 4x as many because the weight distribution isn't spread out far enough to make it look more curved (which is why the end Plasmanta's tail on its back sprite look's a bit 'edgy' now that I think about it), which also cannot be done with a complex rig like the one with many bones. That's why the geometry on both looks nearly the same.

 

[BushWhack]

Thanks for moral support. :)

Mollux is rigged and ready for animation. I start to regret not making the neck totally straight though.
The source files are here (I included the Maya .ma since BushWhack animates in Maya, might as well save us some trouble) I'll get the textures done soon.

Hey BushWhack please come back!! O_O
*sends PM to spam his email*


Well then be glad I charge nothing for such an expensive model :D

The number of joints won't matter that much. If I animate selectively, it'll behave just like a simple rig.

But dynamics flows better with more joints that's why I have it like that.

Does anybody have a pre-existing idea of how they would like to see Mollux animated?
Or should I just do my own thing and show ya'll what I came up with?

 

[DJTHED]

Does anybody have a pre-existing idea of how they would like to see Mollux animated?
Or should I just do my own thing and show ya'll what I came up with?

Just try your best and see what you can come up with. Just keep the idle animation simple and loop-able, but do whatever you think fits it best.

 

[QxC4eva]

Might I add that I also still think any simulation (not sure what dynamics flows is, but I can only assume that it's indeed part of a simulation of some kind) of any kind shouldn't be done, with maybe the exception of Mollux's lamp. I feel it all should be animated manually for any Pokemon model that could be in a 3DS Pokemon game (not that these would be), which certainly can't be too hard. I mean, I guess manually animating it is a bit more time consuming, but I still get detail animation done pretty quickly as long as there's only just a couple bones on each of the detail parts.

I also disagree with animating certain bones selectively to imitate a simpler rig. No, that's not really going to work very well. It'll make the tail look more low poly than it actually is due to the bones not distributing the vertex weights as evenly and having more sharp creases because of it for example. The example you gave with the two bones looks the same as the one with 4x as many because the weight distribution isn't spread out far enough to make it look more curved (which is why the end Plasmanta's tail on its back sprite look's a bit 'edgy' now that I think about it), which also cannot be done with a complex rig like the one with many bones. That's why the geometry on both looks nearly the same.

There's no right or wrong way to do it, just lots of different ways with different pros and cons. That's why I want to try them out, not just sticking to the same thing CAP after CAP. The "favorite" workflow we all seem to be using doesn't work well for animating snakes, ribbons, feathers and effects pokemon like Cyclohm or Mollux. I also won't have a clue how to render Crucibelle's hair if I hadn't played with depth layers in Tomohawk's render. I agree that less is more, but I'm also here to learn! And I hope the same goes to you. c:

Tails can be rigged with a spline IK then have the CV's animated by hand (or driven with dynamics / simulation). The number of control points on the curve will decide the tail's flexibility, not the number of joints itself. And so depending on the animation detail you want, the skeleton can be reused with a just different spline IK, instead of having to make a new skeleton and redo the binds again. That's one advantage of this workflow.

I totally appreciate how particular you're involved in this project, QxC4eva, I really do. Posting tutorials for the various parts of the modeling pipeline, setting up a Pokemon-style shader in Maya, and making a script to render the outlines in Crucibelle's hair go beyond all expectations!

Hence, while it's great to see the progress you've made on Tomohawk, I find myself agreeing with DJTHED here. It's great that you want to make an incredibly detailed rig, but I don't think this is the right place for it yet. A lot of the details you put on the rig will probably be irrelevant on the render. Even if it is futureproofing, I would rather have a simpler rig first so we can have a rough draft of the render before making a complex version. We don't have to get the model/render perfect the first time, so we can make a more polished render with an updated rig at a later date. I'd rather not have another model that was well on the way to completion be held up by rigging details (Pyroak), hence why I'm asking for you to reconsider. v_v

It's 2 vs 2 now so we need a tiebreaker.

Should I rush through Tomohawk or keep going as usual?

 

[FriesforNapkins]

It's 2 vs 2 now so we need a tiebreaker. Should I rush through Tomohawk or keep going as usual?

Don't rush it please. If your want is to make something above and beyond expectations, you should absolutely do that. Like Jack Ferry said, I don't speak for everyone either, but I just want to say that if you're working that hard on something that's obviously going to be worth the wait, I don't mind waiting one bit. I think that's true for most of the people giving input, although that's just a guess.

I'm not entirely sure myself if that many bones is a good idea, not even because of rigging differences, but just because that seems like a lot of components to work with, like a really messy sketch, but... If it works for you, and you're putting in the hours, that's definitely your decision.

On the question of "rush or don't" though, I'm going to 'vote' that you should take as much time as you need to be satisfied with what you're doing, I think the detail of the model should be up to you. And, thanks for all the work you're doing QxC4eva , and DJTHED and the rest of the modelling team, it's very much appreciated!

 

[Quanyails]

FriesforNapkins, It seems you're leaving out what rushing exactly entails. I'm not saying that QxC should rush the model at the permanent expense of quality; I'm saying to get a render out soon as a rough draft, so that Tomohawk has some Gen. VI render before a more refined one. Would you rather not see Tomohawk be rendered in 3D at all before the render is finalized some distance in the future?

I also met with BushWhack on Pokemon Showdown! briefly. I'd say to try things out for Mollux's animation. It would be great to see Mollux's personality shine in an animation, if you can. :)

 

[BushWhack]

FriesforNapkins, It seems you're leaving out what rushing exactly entails. I'm not saying that QxC should rush the model at the permanent expense of quality; I'm saying to get a render out soon as a rough draft, so that Tomohawk has some Gen. VI render before a more refined one. Would you rather not see Tomohawk be rendered in 3D at all before the render is finalized some distance in the future?

I also met with BushWhack on Pokemon Showdown! briefly. I'd say to try things out for Mollux's animation. It would be great to see Mollux's personality shine in an animation, if you can. :)

What video format does this forum support? .avi? Quicktime?

 

[Quanyails]

What video format does this forum support? .avi? Quicktime?

For the renders on Pokemon Showdown, they'll have to be GIFs.

 

[BushWhack]

For the renders on Pokemon Showdown, they'll have to be GIFs.

Been trying for the past few hours to make a GIF and lol Idk how. Been watching tutorials and all. I just can't "export to web".

 

[Quanyails]

Been trying for the past few hours to make a GIF and lol Idk how. Been watching tutorials and all. I just can't "export to web".

You're working in Maya, right? There should be an option to Batch Render your animation (Rendering menu, Render > Batch Render), where you can configure your batch render settings, including the type of your output file. I think I tried PNGs instead of GIFs to start due to GIFs having 'fuzzy' anti-aliased pixels. From there, you'll need an external program (I use ye old ImageReady) to convert the output files into a single animated GIF.

I'll go into more detail if I find you on Pokemon Showdown!

 

[QxC4eva]

In the rendering tab, go to Render > Render Settings

• Choose PNG as the image format
• For frame/animation ext, choose anything that doesn't have "single frame" written on it
• Use a frame padding of 3 or more
• Set the start and end frame of your animation
• Check the render camera and resolution

Close the window, go to Render > Batch Render and it'll give you the png sequence in the /images folder. Then use an image editor to make an animated gif :)

I just want to say that if you're working that hard on something that's obviously going to be worth the wait, I don't mind waiting one bit.

Thanks FriesforNapkins for your comment. It made me realize I can potentially disappoint people if the final thing doesn't live up to the "hype" caused by all the delay. Might be best to get something out there now and take the load off my shoulders. Expect a render after MegaCruc is done

 

[BushWhack]

In the rendering tab, go to Render > Render Settings

• Choose PNG as the image format
• For frame/animation ext, choose anything that doesn't have "single frame" written on it
• Use a frame padding of 3 or more
• Set the start and end frame of your animation
• Check the render camera and resolution

Close the window, go to Render > Batch Render and it'll give you the png sequence in the /images folder. Then use an image editor to make an animated gif :)



Yeah I did all of that, then imported it into Bridge and then from Bridge imported into Photoshop. I just don't have the option "export to web" which is the usual option to save GIF's in photoshop.
I'll figure it out though. Might take some time.

 

[FriesforNapkins]

ahh had to be gone for a day and said stuff that wasn't exactly what I meant ahh

Quanyails , sorry about that, I get what was meant a bit better. I still support the idea of more bones if it's the individual's choice and makes less than a month's worth of difference though (sort of arbitrary amount of time). But yeah, if the general consensus is not that, then I understand too, sorry for any holdup.

Thanks FriesforNapkins for your comment. It made me realize I can potentially disappoint people if the final thing doesn't live up to the "hype" caused by all the delay. Might be best to get something out there now and take the load off my shoulders. Expect a render after MegaCruc is done

QxC4eva , I hope I didn't come off the wrong way, but if that's your decision based on what I said, then sure thing. Having less of a workload I think is a good idea, but in regards to the "hype" factor, I have to say I disagree. I just meant moreso, it wouldn't matter to me if literally the same Tomohawk model came out a few weeks from now, as opposed to immediately, so long as you or the other animators were happy with it. I'm not trying to negate the fact that there's a bit of a rush to get the existing CAP's done, but in most cases, I feel like 'not rushing it' is the better idea. Except specifically not here though, haha.

Also I'll try to learn Blender some so every other bit of feedback I give isn't way inaccurate, I'd wager that's probably something worth investing time into. And also sorry for saying 'sorry' so much. Okay... uh, bye!

 

[BushWhack]

Not sure why it's playing slow but this is my favorite one that I did. Snails don't do much lol.
I did a simple one like the one Macargo has but Macargo also has the lava drips to carry it and make it work.
Then I was thinking about melting because he's a fire/poison type. Tentacles are flexible so I thought to make them bend and "melt".
Mollux is like 90lbs so I figured that the lavalamp on it's back weighs about 3/4th's of that, so his back legs should be down more.
Uhh, the shake I added was for personality mostly. Let me know.

 

[DJTHED]

Fixed the framerate for you. Make sure you have each frame have a delay of 30ms (approx. adds up to 30fps) so that it plays at the right speed. If you leave it blank or set it to 0ms, it'll just play at a much slower default speed.

Anyway, nice animation! Though it doesn't really fit as a standard idle animation. With a few exceptions for certain types of Pokemon, most idle animations technically usually only have one keypose that they hold throughout the animation, and they just bob up and down or something else that's just subtle movement in a quick 1-2 second loop (or even less time than that).

I can't really describe what I'm looking for any further than that... Despite the fact that I'm the one that usually animates around here, I'm not that great describing what I want to see out of an animation. It's something I usually just do. QxC4eva and Golui have both helped me in the past by giving me feedback to improve my work. I think they should put in their two cents on this as they should probably be able to help you more than I.

EDIT:
Oh yeah. One thing. Don't make the start and end of the loop animation too obvious. Make sure it's seamless.

And don't keep all the bones at the default "T-pose" position at the start of the loop either (or at any point for that matter). The pose the model was made from doesn't work as part of the animation. Maybe not so much of a problem with Mollux in particular, but it's still something that shouldn't be done, and you can tell it's there. It's just a generic, boring pose.

 

[BushWhack]

Fixed the framerate for you. Make sure you have each frame have a delay of 30ms (approx. adds up to 30fps) so that it plays at the right speed. If you leave it blank or set it to 0ms, it'll just play at a much slower default speed.

Anyway, nice animation! Though it doesn't really fit as a standard idle animation. With a few exceptions for certain types of Pokemon, most idle animations technically usually only have one keypose that they hold throughout the animation, and they just bob up and down or something else that's just subtle movement in a quick 1-2 second loop (or even less time than that).

I can't really describe what I'm looking for any further than that... Despite the fact that I'm the one that usually animates around here, I'm not that great describing what I want to see out of an animation. It's something I usually just do. QxC4eva and Golui have both helped me in the past by giving me feedback to improve my work. I think they should put in their two cents on this as they should probably be able to help you more than I.

EDIT:
Oh yeah. One thing. Don't make the start and end of the loop animation too obvious. Make sure it's seamless.

And don't keep all the bones at the default "T-pose" position at the start of the loop either (or at any point for that matter). The pose the model was made from doesn't work as part of the animation. Maybe not so much of a problem with Mollux in particular, but it's still something that shouldn't be done, and you can tell it's there. It's just a generic, boring pose.

So just make it a basic idle? I mean I made like 3 basic idle's for it but I wasn't sure. I'll upload them soon.