CAP 3D Modeling Project

[Zephias]

BushWhack as much as I love the shaking animation idea I have to agree with DJTHED on this. This animation looks like more what you'd expect from one of the rare idle animations you see from time to time and Showdown doesn't use those.

If you want to refine this one then feel free, but I believe either an up-down bobbing cycle or a side by side slow wobbling would work best.

On actual animation flow I feel like for a snail the neck is a tad too stiff on most movements. It jumped out at me because every other part has some sort of movement yet the neck (that would probably wave slightly at least during such a shaking) remains stiff.

Hope my comments help out and great job as usual.

 

[QxC4eva]

QxC4eva , I hope I didn't come off the wrong way, but if that's your decision based on what I said, then sure thing. Having less of a workload I think is a good idea, but in regards to the "hype" factor, I have to say I disagree. I just meant moreso, it wouldn't matter to me if literally the same Tomohawk model came out a few weeks from now, as opposed to immediately, so long as you or the other animators were happy with it. I'm not trying to negate the fact that there's a bit of a rush to get the existing CAP's done, but in most cases, I feel like 'not rushing it' is the better idea. Except specifically not here though, haha.

Also I'll try to learn Blender some so every other bit of feedback I give isn't way inaccurate, I'd wager that's probably something worth investing time into. And also sorry for saying 'sorry' so much. Okay... uh, bye!

Whether you meant it or not, it still made me realize something :)

Also, sorry for the confusion but the number of joints isn't what's slowing me down :P What's actually slowing me down is working out a skeleton structure for the dynamics, as Tomo's design has a few things that don't make any sense in 3D (as explaned in this post here). So my plan is to leave dynamics for later and do the manual work like I usually do, and get something out there soon.


BushWhack I trust you already found the export option in Photoshop? I'm on CS2 and the shortcut is Ctrl+Alt+Shift+S, it's probably same for the other versions. The reason your gif being slow is you left the delay at 0, so it plays at the default speed which is like 10 fps or something. Go to Window > Animation (or Timeline depending on your version), select all the frames and give it 0.04 sec for delay. That should speed things up!

Anyway I like your animation. :D I agree snails don't do a lot but I think it's still a bit much for an idle (it looks more like a "roar" sequence like this and this), so maybe have less movement for the tentacles? Might also be better having the neck stretch forwards instead of up like this art here. I hope you keep the shake though I like it :D:D

aaaand I finished Mollux's textures yay! But it looks nothing like Mollux without the lava stuff.....

https://drive.google.com/folderview...4ZnV6U1hrYl9pTmRYY1FhTlJxR0xnUmhQSmZXd28#grid

 

[BushWhack]

I honestly don't know what to do with the legs/tentacles. So far I like the last one the best but idk.

 

[QxC4eva]

I think the tentacles are fine! Hmm I like the first one best if you reduce the head movement a bit (don't make it go all the way up to neutral), and make the front tentacles less in sync with it.

Also, which version of Maya are you using? I'll send you my shaders so you can render them in Pokemon style. :)

 

[DHR-107]

QxC4eva Is there an updated version of this spreadsheet around?

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cap-3d-modeling-project.3536091/page-11#post-6519989

I can add it to the OP if you guys want. It may however be best to remake the OP/Thread over. Please PM me if you need the OP updating, as PSG has been inactive for some time :(

 

[BushWhack]

Us

I think the tentacles are fine! Hmm I like the first one best if you reduce the head movement a bit (don't make it go all the way up to neutral), and make the front tentacles less in sync with it.

Also, which version of Maya are you using? I'll send you my shaders so you can render them in Pokemon style. :)

Using Maya 2016.

 

[QxC4eva]

QxC4eva Is there an updated version of this spreadsheet around?

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/cap-3d-modeling-project.3536091/page-11#post-6519989

I can add it to the OP if you guys want. It may however be best to remake the OP/Thread over. Please PM me if you need the OP updating, as PSG has been inactive for some time :(

In case anyone is wondering, yeah, it's the same spreadsheet and we're still keeping it up to date. :)

BushWhack
Here's the Maya ascii file with my shaders and render settings. Without compositing, the result won't be that good (but it's good enough for a draft). Make sure to have Diffuse.png in your /sourceimages folder, and then all you need to do is assign "shdMollux" to the shell and body. Feel free to delete the outline if it's causing more trouble than it's worth. :P

 

[BushWhack]

In case anyone is wondering, yeah, it's the same spreadsheet and we're still keeping it up to date. :)

BushWhack
Here's the Maya ascii file with my shaders and render settings. Without compositing, the result won't be that good (but it's good enough for a draft). Make sure to have Diffuse.png in your /sourceimages folder, and then all you need to do is assign "shdMollux" to the shell and body. Feel free to delete the outline if it's causing more trouble than it's worth. :P

Working on it now. I'll upload a few iterations later on today.

 

[BushWhack]

Took an Octillery approach. Also learned to stop using real life logic when I animate pokemon.

 

[QxC4eva]

BushWhack I think Mollux is more snail than octopus though. :P Your animation makes it look very fast. Try making the tentacles squish up and down on the ground like how the snails move. It'll also help to look at some similar looking pokemon, for example, I like Lapras' neck animation. I think you should do something like that for the head/neck!

 

[QxC4eva]

I put in some effort writing this shader so I hope it's okay ._.
because of it I have to delay Cyclohm a bit...

Changelog:

• added transparency, refraction and highlights for the glass
• added glow and particle FX for the purple liquid (inspired by this official art)
• added some test blobs to make sure they render properly
• improved the outlines on the tentacle swirls

More textures have been added here, and a new folder with my render passes is here.

Also if you look closely, the outlines may seem more "natural" than my renders for other CAPs. It's because I'm now using my own toon liner instead of using Maya's built-in one. The way I'm doing it is much closer to how Pokemon does their lines (it's almost exact if you ignore the colors). I'll explain this in detail soon! :D

 

[Jack Ferry]

I put in some effort writing this shader so I hope it's okay ._.
because of it I have to delay Cyclohm a bit...

Changelog:

• added transparency, refraction and highlights for the glass
• added glow and particle FX for the purple liquid (inspired by this official art)
• added some test blobs to make sure they render properly
• improved the outlines on the tentacle swirls

More textures have been added here, and a new folder with my render passes is here.

Also if you look closely, the outlines may seem more "natural" than my renders for other CAPs. It's because I'm now using my own toon liner instead of using Maya's built-in one. The way I'm doing it is much closer to how Pokemon does their lines (it's almost exact if you ignore the colors). I'll explain this in detail soon! :D

pretty lava lamp *-*
but seriously that's some cool stuff cant wait to see those bubbles in action.

 

[KrazyCake]

Ok I have taken way to long to post this so sorry about that.


But without further to do here is fidgit's WIP I may have to shrink down these images doe.
but I kinda think I am done with dis so I don't think it should be a WIP :P

So here she is hope you guys like it :D also here is a top view

Ain't she beautiful.
As you can all see unlike Golui the elbow ballz are not organically connected because I am mainly working off of the main artwork and to me those look like drawing errors please correct me if I am wrong

It has 11244 Verts and 22396 Tris

[Edit]
Here is the .obj

 

[DJTHED]

Actually I just remembered this, but Pokemon outlines simply don't appear behind semi-transparent materials of any kind. I learned about this when I was working on Pikachu-Belle and looking at her dress.

It looks pretty much like this ingame. You can see more of Pikachu's feet and lower body through the dress, but without any sort of outlines. There are a few other examples I remember seeing this occurring I can't remember at the moment, but it is indeed a thing. I'd argue to remove the refraction too... But eeeeeeh I think it can stay, as unlikely as it is to work ingame on a 3DS. The overall effect is looking really nice though!

EDIT:
Oh I just remembered another example. Mega Diancie's ribbons:

Ok I have taken way to long to post this so sorry about that.


But without further to do here is fidgit's WIP I may have to shrink down these images doe.
but I kinda think I am done with dis so I don't think it should be a WIP :P

So here she is hope you guys like it :D also here is a top view

Ain't she beautiful.
As you can all see unlike Golui the elbow ballz are not organically connected because I am mainly working off of the main artwork and to me those look like drawing errors please correct me if I am wrong

It has 11244 Verts and 22396 Tris

obj coming soon....

Oooh nice! I can't really criticize the model alone just through the pics. I would need you to provide an obj file so that we can properly QC this model, but from what I can see it's looking pretty decent!

 

[QxC4eva]

KrazyCake, I have to second DJTHED that you did a great job! :D Perhaps there's a bit too many subdivs on the cylinders and spheres, can you reduce it slightly? Half is a good number to go for I reckon- try using 16 circumference divisions (instead of 32) for the spheres, and delete every 1 in 2 edge loops for the cylinders. The same can be done to the elbow cones too. Once that's done I say it's ready for UVs and rigging!

edit- Can you also add some divisions for the limbs inside the elbows? Without some he won't be able to bend them. XD

Actually I just remembered this, but Pokemon outlines simply don't appear behind semi-transparent materials of any kind. I learned about this when I was working on Pikachu-Belle and looking at her dress.

It looks pretty much like this ingame. You can see more of Pikachu's feet and lower body through the dress, but without any sort of outlines. There are a few other examples I remember seeing this occurring I can't remember at the moment, but it is indeed a thing. I'd argue to remove the refraction too... But eeeeeeh I think it can stay, as unlikely as it is to work ingame on a 3DS. The overall effect is looking really nice though!

EDIT:
Oh I just remembered another example. Mega Diancie's ribbons:

Oh, well spotted. Won't have noticed it if you hadn't told me! My guess is there's very few Pokemon with transparency like Mollux, so the TD didn't bother / or overlooked getting the lines to work there. It's gonna look worse if I remove it so I really want to keep it as is. :(

There's a few exceptions to your rule though:

Reuniclus has a fair bit of transparency so it goes to show that they'll make an effort whenever it's needed! Looking closely, I suspect they made a custom shader for the jelly so that the stuff inside will keep their outlines. Mega Eye on the other hand, has both refractions and outlines on the jewel. The back view even has reflections too! (but no outlines)

 

[KrazyCake]

So I later on today I will have the improvements for Fidgit(hopefully) but I just had an idea for Molluxes animation I think that you should animate those lips on Mollux people like to make jokes about them and it would be a fun thing to see :'D

Also another thing why aren't Molluxes front tentacles curled forward like in the model sheet




(Tagging QxC4eva BushWhack)

 

[Zephias]

KrazyCake I do believe QxC4eva mentioned that the tentacles had been modeled more like seen on the art (current tentacles) and not like the model sheet or sprite.
I also quite sincerely agree with QxC4eva about the body shape flowing better this way.

Quoting the post for reference below.

Alright here's the revamped Mollux model. I'll wait another day for QC if not I'll get straight to the UVs and rigging, so BushWhack can start animating!

• Triangles: 9104 (before) --> 2348 (now)
• Vertices: 4561 (before) --> 1194 (now)

Here's the obj file.

The only thing I'm not so sure about is the tentacles. I had a few tries making them straight but it's really hard shaping it so it curls into a decent looking spiral when rigged, so I decided to keep them curled up as it is. I also made all of them curl backwards like the main drawing. I know the sprite and model sheet have the front tentacles curl forwards and I tried that, but IMO the body shape flows better when they curl backwards.

Quanyails I did only two major changes but ended up almost completely rebuilding your model, so apologies for that. My first task was to attach the legs back to the body, but the body was a bit hi-poly so I rebuilt that. And to fix the double-sided shell, I just made a new sphere and stretched it up. Guess what? That's the whole model already! :|


---
On a side note I started playing around with Cyclohm for the cloud effect. Might post a WIP in a week or so.... :D

 

[KrazyCake]

KrazyCake I do believe QxC4eva mentioned that the tentacles had been modeled more like seen on the art (current tentacles) and not like the model sheet or sprite.
I also quite sincerely agree with QxC4eva about the body shape flowing better this way.

Quoting the post for reference below.

Ok true. All I was thinking is that BushWhack could make more compelling animations but I think that you may be right also remember that the model sheets were made by Mos-Quitoxe the creator of Mollux so he/she? could have wanted to edit Mollux a bit

(Tagging Zephias)

 

[Zephias]

There was a chance to change the wireframe back when it was presented, honestly. If Mos truly feels that the design isn't right as it currently is he can come and tell us but I don't see the curling direction as that big a thing (especially seeing how Mos has Mollux's model as profile pic here on Smogon atm, double backwards curl and all).

In the end though Mollux being a cone snail means the front could curl both ways without problem without any biological impediments.

It's not that I don't think you don't have a point, but QxC4eva mentioned the changes right away and Quan, who is currently the acting project leader (Seeing as Paintseagull and Yvel are MIA and that'd be the other two I'd look to to veto such a change) and in charge of vetoing that kind of stuff said she trusted QxC's rendition of Mollux. I'm not sure if making the changes after the model was rigged, had UVs done and is already being animated is that good an idea.

 

[Mos-Quitoxe]

just popping in to say that I am extremely pleased with how mollux's model is turning out, legs and all.

To be honest though, I think it would be best to forego any uncurling. It worked for the sprite because of how they were laid out initially.

 

[DougJustDoug]

After seeing the Castform-Snowy model, I realized it has "curled legs" not unlike Mollux, even though the Mollux model has the front legs curled under (which I like A LOT, just see the sprite I did for Mollux, which curled like Mos' art). I realize Castform is floating, and they aren't really "legs", which means the animation effect is different, but it does give a perspective on how Mollux animation might want to handle the legs.

I like the idea of uncurling Mollux back legs, but not much at all. Maybe just enough to give the legs a little extension, but that's it.

 

[KrazyCake]

Hi guys sorry for not updating Fidgit yesterday I really hope that I can finish later today but if I don't then SORRY

Anyway on to the Mollux thang thang to be honest I don't really care how the legs look front curl or back curl the way it is now looks great :D and the legs like this make it look fast I only mentioned them not being like the model sheets because it looked BushWhack was trying to give more character to Mollux in his animation this being his first on these forms but thats just my silly thinking(Remember I am only a cake:B) also the the crown jewel of Mollux is the lava lamp shell anyway so yeah..... :P

 

[QxC4eva]

Um hi I've been told the flicker isn't good so I reduced it a bit idk... or should I just scrap it entirely?

KrazyCake it's true the original artist has a big say on the CAP's 3D design. They can help us out by drawing model sheets, giving us feedback, or answering questions, etc. But ultimately we do the 3D, not them! It's up on us to fill in the missing "gaps" and make sure the CAPmon translates well to 3D. The design might need to be compromised just so the final product will look good. So we have artistic freedom too. =) Thanks for bringing it up though, I think you're silly but not stupid so don't worry about it, worry about Fidgit please. :D

To satisfy people's curiosity, here's the draft I had with the forward tentacles. I think they look better backwards so I chose that instead.

 

[DJTHED]

Um hi I've been told the flicker isn't good so I reduced it a bit idk... or should I just scrap it entirely?

Maybe try the reduced flicker, but also tone down the orange glow a bit too?

 

[Admiraal Aardappel]

Um hi I've been told the flicker isn't good so I reduced it a bit idk... or should I just scrap it entirely?

This is just my opinion but my immediate impression (aside from the initial "wow that's amazing") is that the current one looks slightly chaotic, but the second one perhaps even more so due to the irregularity from the frequency of the flickering (the intensity of the glow might also contribute). The fourth one also stands out to me as being very clear but maybe also kind of boring, depending on the animation. I think it might be good to try different combinations of flicker frequency as well as different levels of glow.