CAP 4 CAP 4 - Ability Discussion

[Bianca]

I like Frisk, Technician, Klutz, and Own Tempo, Tangled Feet for Longlegs. I'm not sure whether it would be better to not be confused at all, or get a stat boost from confusion and risk passing it onto something that could beat itself up. The speed boost probably wins out.

White Smoke, Shield Dust, Cute Charm, Poison Point, and Effect Spore for Smog Imp. Effect Spore and Shield Dust for the nasty particles and bits of sand in the cloud.

 

[Salt Wyrm]

For the smog imp, instead of White Smoke, why not a new ability, Black Smoke? Not really sure what it would do, but just a suggestion.

 

[LoZDestroyer]

For the smog imp, instead of White Smoke, why not a new ability, Black Smoke? Not really sure what it would do, but just a suggestion.

If we did that to fit the color scheme, we'd probably just make it a new name for an old ability. Like Insomnia and Vital Spirit. Same thing, different name to fit the flavor of the pokemon. Sort of like the suggested Burrow ability.

 

[the_artic_one]

Actually, Vital spirit has an out of battle effect that insomnia doesn't /minornitpick.

 

[ParadOxymoron]

I think the coolest combination for the Daddy Long Legs would be Frisk and Klutz. I'm a sucker for "opposite" abilities. In the Pyroak ability thread, someone suggested Battle Armor / Anger Point; one to make it immune to critical hits, and the other to maximize its attack when it gets hit by a critical hit – essentially opposites of each other, but both valid with the flavor. Frisk and Klutz are less straightforward, but still. One finds out what good item your opponent has, the other helps you give them your bad item. Frisk has already been argued for as an awesome ability that would make this Pokémon a really interesting lead, and I think that Klutz would just open the doorway for some awesome Trick-abuse movesets, making this Pokémon that much more unique.

For the Smogimp, if it were up to me, I'd go with Insomnia and no second ability, but I realize that this community would almost never vote for no second ability. Aftermath would certainly work, and is definitely an extremely sexy ability.

 

[X_Presumptuous]

A lot of people are supporting Insomnia/Vital Spirit to absorb Sleep. Someone before mentioned Early Bird instead, as it can still Rest and wake up early yet still somewhat "absorbs" Sleep. This also gives us an excuse to not give it a 50% recovery move, as even that is starting to not look so great either.

It can also help it veer away from fanboyishness by not giving it an overly good ability --- I personally think its ability should be somewhat mediocre after all we've given it/plan to give it in other areas.

 

[Havak]

Solid Rock, Inner Focus, Shell Armor, Sturdy - For Retro's Rhino

Poison Heal, Sniper, Own Tempo - For Scorpian versions

 

[UberMunch]

I really like Paradoxymoron's idea of frisk and klutz. I can't get over how cool the strategy of tricking w/out consequence is. It can really screw with people.

 

[pit-fall]

A lot of people are supporting Insomnia/Vital Spirit to absorb Sleep. Someone before mentioned Early Bird instead, as it can still Rest and wake up early yet still somewhat "absorbs" Sleep. This also gives us an excuse to not give it a 50% recovery move, as even that is starting to not look so great either.

It can also help it veer away from fanboyishness by not giving it an overly good ability --- I personally think its ability should be somewhat mediocre after all we've given it/plan to give it in other areas.

Yes. This thing is already gonna have good stats as well as unpredictability on its side. Early Bird not only opens the gate for full-recovery, it also works to psuedo-sleep absorb, while not being too broken.

And it could be a lame excuse to give it Tailwind (bcuz itz a early biird!!1). [/badjoke]

 

[Empoleon Guru]

for daddylong arms, how bout limb? not very useful but very suiting, or iron fist. Unburden might be a useful ability and since it looks rather nice to hold an item, spiders need all legs to walk and if it uses a hand to hold an item it might slow it down... not good explaination but great ability... Maybe tangled feet?...
for smogimp, i think keen eye would be good. next to the the tail, i think the eyes a the most outstanding thing on this poke... white smoke is great too.

 

[LonelyNess]

I'm going to throw my hat in the ring and advocate the creation of Persistant.

I don't understand the community's resistance to creating a new ability. Creating an entire Pokemon from scratch is a-ok but creating a new ability, whoa now that there's crazy talk. If a new ability helps to achieve the goal of the CAP project more so than any existing ability, I feel that we should be making a new ability. (Within reason of course... we don't want an offensive pokemon to get an ability that quadruples its attack, regardless of how true to the initial goal of "offensive pokemon" it makes it)

Persistant stays true to the original goal of this CAP project, a competant utility Pokemon. With it, it could fufill a usefull niche in many teams either by providing the life blood of Gravity/TR/Tailwind teams, or just being a general supporter by guaranteeing +2 turn screens (I use 2 turns because 3 completely overshadows Light Clay as a viable item, and 1 is almost useless)

It also works flavor wise with almost all of the art submissions. All of the submissions look like real scrappy Pokemon, stubborn and willing to fight until their last breath.

I see no reason why we should give this pokemon a basically worthless ability (come on people, Frisk? You all know that's crap with the exception of figuring out random scarfers) when we have the opportunity to give it a unique ability that lets it stand out in the crowd.

 

[Thunderpup]

Lonely, the problem could lie in the fact that by making the pokemon TOO good, we're discrediting other pokemon as well. While persistant would be an excellent move, we have to stay true to the nature of pokemon, where pokemon abilities actually fit within reasonable understanding.

Why does this pokemon get persistant where others do not? Are other pokemon less persistant? It doesn't make sense in the flavor of the pokemon to make it more persistant than any other pokemon, just so it will become even stronger. Maybe if the ability was performed a bit differently, like Spiritual on a certain pokemon, or Magic Power on one...

I already think this pokemon is really powerful, so it wouldn't hurt to give it usable but non-overpowering ability. Frisk and Klutz are popular choices, and they offer a unique role to the pokemon, while still maintaining the idea that the pokemon DOES deserve the ability.

The more I think about it, klutz is an amazing ability for the daddy-long-legs. It can be constantly fumbling the item between it's many hands, but still have hands free to attack.

 

[Flash_gearz]

Lets give it STALL <_<

 

[phalanx]

isn't klutz broken still on shoddy?

 

[LonelyNess]

Lonely, the problem could lie in the fact that by making the pokemon TOO good, we're discrediting other pokemon as well. While persistant would be an excellent move, we have to stay true to the nature of pokemon, where pokemon abilities actually fit within reasonable understanding.

Why does this pokemon get persistant where others do not? Are other pokemon less persistant? It doesn't make sense in the flavor of the pokemon to make it more persistant than any other pokemon, just so it will become even stronger. Maybe if the ability was performed a bit differently, like Spiritual on a certain pokemon, or Magic Power on one...

I already think this pokemon is really powerful, so it wouldn't hurt to give it usable but non-overpowering ability. Frisk and Klutz are popular choices, and they offer a unique role to the pokemon, while still maintaining the idea that the pokemon DOES deserve the ability.

The more I think about it, klutz is an amazing ability for the daddy-long-legs. It can be constantly fumbling the item between it's many hands, but still have hands free to attack.

The tentative power of Persistant is not broken in the slightest. These moves (Gravity/Trick Room/Tailwind hell even the screens) see little to no use in competetive play. Why not use this chance to not only stay true to the original intent of the project, as well as give these moves some added viability?

I'm against encroaching upon other Pokemon's niches as well. We already have a Klutz pokemon, Lopunny. If we give this Pokemon better stats, better movepool, and the same ability to give hindering items as Lopunny, where's the incentive to EVER use her?

And if your only true argument is the freaking NAME of the ability, then change it to something more suitable. Persistant is only a tentative name in the first place, it's the ability that we're debating, not the name of said ability.

 

[Genesis of Oblivion]

for cerb's emo wheel white smoke and persistant

for daddy long legs frisk, technician,persistant

 

[Mr.Doom]

Lets give it STALL <_<

Boom.

IMO, we should give it an offensive ability and a defensive ability, so it has more variety.

Offensive ability: Adaptability- Dear god. CB versions will raid the base. Yet, the crappy second STAB (Poison) makes up for the WTF that will be a STAB'd + Adaptability Earthquake running off a 76/78 base Attack with or without CB. Everything not named Bronzong or Skarmory will be sunk.

Defensive ability 1: Solid Rock (for Retro's Rhino)- Pretty much obvious. A rhino has one of the hardest skins, IIRC. This guy can be one of the biggest SOB in the game, mixed tank and nice HP, and two weaknesses.

Defensive ability 2: Insomnia / Early Bird (for Daddy Longlegs)- Well, spiders don't go to bed often. It makes sense it doesn't have many turns of sleep. I'm personally inclined over Early Bird so it can use Rest well (Insomnia IIRC blocks sleep, therefore, blocks Rest)

 

[tennisace]

Persistant in and of itself isn't a bad idea. It's making affect TOO many moves is the problem. Here are moves that it would be eligible to be voted on for it:

Rain Dance
Sunny Day
Hail
Sandstorm
Light Screen*
Reflect*
Safeguard
Mist
Gravity*
Trick Room*
Tailwind*
Encore*
Disable
Heal Block

Out of those, the starred ones are the ones this will almost positively get.
If you want to make Persistant the new ability, we need to vote on how many of these we want to extend for 3 turns. This brings up another problem: Tailwind only lasts for 3 turns, do we want it to last for 8 or 6? We need to decide definatly if this is chosen.

 

[sKePtiCaL]

What about Poison Point for the Daddy Longlegs one? It has enough points on it to make it viable.

 

[tennisace]

Poison Point works, but its kinda meh. We should be able to come up with something more creative.

 

[Mr.Doom]

I don't agree on Encore being affected by Persistant. It already lasts 4-8 turns and that's already annoying, now picture it being used in a Persistant + Wobbuffet / Wynaut combo. Yeaaaah.

 

[tennisace]

Thats the kind of thing we would have to vote on then. If we make a new ability, the community better understand exactly what the ability can and cannot do.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Great Scott!!! I swear to God that Persistent won't be affecting Encore in any way, regardless of being a turn driven move. The main moves I want it to affect are Tailwind, Gravity, Trick room, the Screens, and maybe Weather moves. Safeguard and Encore can go to a corner and sit in the fetal position for all I care.

 

[tennisace]

Great Scott!!! I swear to God that Persistent won't be affecting Encore in any way, regardless of being a turn driven move. The main moves I want it to affect are Tailwind, Gravity, Trick room, the Screens, and maybe Weather moves. Safeguard and Encore can go to a corner and sit in the fetal position for all I care.

Well yeah. It was just a list of POSSIBILITIES. I.E. moves that the community could vote for. I'm personally against weather moves and Encore. Safeguard and Mist are fine too.

 

[Urza]

i think persistent should only affect "field" moves, moves that change stats or affect all pokemon in play. this keeps the screens, gravity and trick room, weather and team support moves like tail wind and mist, but removes disable, encore, and targeted moves that affect the opposition.