Actually bob it's relevant because if we make it Male Only from the Dream World, then the DW ability cannot get egg moves.
Most fifth gen event mons have the DW ability don't they? So could be relevant for Psycho Boost.
See, the implication of my post was more "hahaha, no, that's not happening."
We have a perfectly good ability triality, which I will not permit to be screwed over by ability illegalities. Move illegalities are fine, but to restrict the options of one ability to favour the others when they all already have their inherent strengths runs counter to my intentions with this CAP.
Likely you were joking regardless, but I feel this message ought to be clear for anyone who may get the wrong idea.
Anyway I feel I ought to address some other mildly peculiar posts
- Seriously,
don't try to start discussion on moves that aren't labelled as being up for discussion. That's annoying and unhelpful. You'll get your chance later, once the important stuff is done.
-
Don't just post random lists of "risky moves". That's not even vaguely helpful. Even more puzzling is when these moves include that are automatically disallowed (V-create... what?) or not even competitive (Bide, really?). Remember that "risky Pokemon" =/= "give it lots of random risky moves". We learnt that lesson with Kitsunoh, as per giving lots of moves to a Pokemon that could be used a certain way does not mean they will be used that way, or even at all.
So that's that. Please don't continue this trend.
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Before I begin to address this I'd like to reiterate some things that we all need to remember:
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Aurumoth should function well as a physical sweeper
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Aurumoth should function well as a special sweeper
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Aurumoth should function well as a mixed attacker
And by "function well", we repeat what we said in concept assessment: No counters, but plenty of checks. I think what a lot of people seem to be forgetting at the moment is that a) we're not that fast and b) we're not really that strong either. Hydreigon cannot sweep, but it can at least switch in multiple times, and has an easily spammable STAB attack. Aurumoth will likely be far more limited with regard to lifespan, and if the Kyurem-B testing in OU is any indication, even the mightiest of defensive stats aren't much good if your typing leaves you susceptible to common attacking types.
This is a difficult topic to address as I can see that different sides have their own priorities, which are hard to reconcile. As with the stat spreads, I can see the relative merit of both. So, I'll start with what I think everyone can agree on (or rather, that I myself am personally convinced of).
Fire-type coverage
In terms of sweepers, Aurumoth gets three more or less perfect 3-move combinations - Bug/Psychic/Fighting, Bug/Psychic/Water, and Bug/Psychic/Electric. As such, there is really no need to place any focus on Fire-type attacks as essential reliable coverage attacks. On the other hand, a Fire-type move would be extremely useful on 4-move attacker sets, for the purpose of removing Scizor, Genesect, Forretress, Jirachi, and whatever else takes your fancy. As such, I am going to come down on the side of
Allowing Overheat and
Disallowing Flamethrower / Fire Blast. I like the idea of forcing the use of a risky move, particularly one that has so much potential for reward at the same time. I don't think there is any real argument against this, or rather, I have not seen a convincing one in this thread yet.
Physical Fighting-type attacks
As previously mentioned, CAP4 needs to be threatening on the physical side. It also needs to be able to sweep, which merits a consistent coverage attack. Cross Chop does not deliver in this regard, particularly on non-No Guard sets. As such, the need arises for a more powerful coverage attack, particularly if physical or mixed sets are to be expected to compete with purely special sets. Ergo, I think
Close Combat will be Allowed, and by extension,
Superpower, Hammer Arm, Cross Chop, and Brick Break will also be Allowed, as they are far less competitively viable than Close Combat overall, so there is no need to disallow them.
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Now, controversial stuff.
The special coverage: Focus Blast, Hydro Pump, Thunder
As I said before, the three of these represent a large part of Aurumoth's movepool diversity in its ability to have different but perfectly viable coverage attacks on its hypothetical 3-attack sets, each of which confers specific advantages. For example, Focus Blast deals with the blobs after a boost or two, meaning that Aurumoth can run Psychic with less worry. Hydro Pump, on the other hand, deals with Gliscor and Hippowdon, and as such, Aurumoth can quite happily run Psyshock. What advantage does Thunder grant? Well, none in terms of coverage, but it does have the advantage of, in rainy conditions, being 100% accurate irrespective of No Guard, meaning that it can be run with other abilities with just as much, if not more, effectiveness, without the fear of missing. This triumvirate is important as it represents a large portion of Aurumoth's teambuilding-based risk, or being able to do the same thing in different ways.
Now, I can see that there are some who dislike one or the other of these. Some of these arguments I sympathise with, others I don't. Different people have different builds in mind and all of them are perfectly legitimate, which makes it difficult to arbitrate between them. As such I think it is appropriate to say that all of
Focus Blast, Aura Sphere, Hydro Pump, Surf, Thunder, and Thunderbolt will be Allowed. None of these is individually overpowering and none has overwhelming synergy with the others, as they all hit the same targets, but give minor differences in their usage. This is a large contrast to, say, the choice between Fire or Ground as a typical Steel coverage attack, wherein the use of one move hits half for high damage and the other half not as effectively, but here, all moves hit for reasonable damage and are sufficiently highly powered to make a significant impact after a boost, whatever that boost may end up being. I highly doubt that any of them is at all overpowered on their own, and all of them provide coverage that is helpful in a particular combination.
Remember that if you yourself disagree with a particular move's inclusion on this Pokemon's movepool, you have the right to exclude those moves (unless, of course, I specify them as being required, which I am not going to do for any coverage moves). There is no objective competitive or conceptual reason for disallowing any of the above, and there are multiple ways to achieve the objective - as such, I cannot disallow a particular arrangement in that sense. Also, remember that we have movepool limits - likely as not it will be impossible to fit all of these onto a movepool in any case.
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The Outliers
Last but not least, we have Earthquake and Earth Power. These are pretty much strictly inferior to Fighting-type moves in this case on the basis of weaker synergy with Bug and Psychic, so there's not really that much reason to not allow them. Thus,
Earthquake and Earth Power are Allowed. As for Aqua Tail, I'm not entirely sure of it as of yet. On the one hand it is pretty much always better than Close Combat inside rain, but at the same time is much weaker outside of rain. I intend to add it to the Pending list along with the newer moves, and hopefully we can get a tad more discussion on it.
Oh and um, U-turn. No, that isn't going to work. As far as minimising safe options goes, U-turn is only ever going to be used if it provides a safe option, which is very rarely going to be the case here, especially when you could be using Scizor or Genesect. It isn't necessary, and I can see Aurumoth having to switch in and out pretty often regardless. As far as the principle of the matter goes, I have removed U-turn, Volt Switch, recoil and healing moves on principle alone, not competitive merit. Their only possible effect on a movepool is detrimental to the concept and as such they are not worth even entertaining the thought of.
And now, on to the next topic
Next up, two things.
a) Aqua Tail and any other physical sweeper coverage you could care to mention
b) Coverage for Dragon-types.
I'll give a head start on b) since you probably already have your own opinions on a). Here we have three forms of coverage - Rock, Ice, and Dragon itself. Rock-type attacks are only really useful for Dragonite, possibly Kyurem, and to an extent Salamence (who is destroyed by Psychic-type attacks anyway, really). Hydreigon and Lati@s die to any STAB Bug attack, and Haxorus can't take a Psychic-type attack happily. On the other hand, they may prove useful against miscellaneous threats such as Volcarona and Gyarados. I'm leaning towards disallowing these as they don't have any particularly great benefit other than giving physical sets something else to mess around with, but there's nothing very broken about them. On the other hand, Ice-type attacks such as Blizzard and Ice Beam pair extremely poorly with Bug and Psychic, so are no use at all on sweeping sets, but on the other hand are useful for their ability to crack Dragonite, who is otherwise a very nasty threat indeed, and who so far has not been addressed outside of "chuck a Psychic at it and hope for the best". I don't really see these as broken either, but as with Rock-type attacks, their applications are limited; only here, we have a way to annihilate a very common, very powerful threat, but not much aside from that, whereas with Stone Edge, a number of noteworthy checks are covered, but not in any absolute way. As for Dragon-type moves,
I hate them and will disallow them all I'm not entirely sure exactly what the appeal behind them is, as far as solely being useful for hitting Dragon-types is concerned. More to the point, I don't think it's a good idea to be encouraging neutrality - all of Aurumoth's moves should ideally be of typings where it is entirely possible and easy to do very little damage to something as a result of a misprediction, but a great deal of damage if one predicts correctly - hence an emphasis on Fire-, Ice-, and Fighting-type coverage.
I think that's everything I wanted to say, anyway. Carry on.
