CAP 5 CAP 5 - Base Stat Submissions

[Fishin]

I'll probably submit a more in-depth analysis later, but for now I'm thinking the ideal spread would be something like:

HP: 75
Atk: 70
Def: 52
SpA: 145
SpD: 80
Spe: 127

Attack is just enough to make Blissey start sweating in fear of an explosion should we give it that. We want to have as much special power on this as possible; given that it only has one STAB with 70 base power on its strongest move, it'll need to have pretty high attack to be a real threat. Speed is just enough to beat Weavile, but below Aerodactyl.

As far as defenses go, decent HP and Sp Def means it can potentially switch into some weaker Fire attacks (especially if SS is up), but it has pretty low durability otherwise.

 

[sbc]

Why the obsession with 127 speed because of Shaymin x_x

 

[Fishin]

Since one of the big complaints with Syclant was that it sits at a new Speed benchmark (121). In this case, though, there actually already is a Pokemon sitting at the 127 point (Sky Shaymin), so there's more of a precedent for it.

 

[Mekkah]

Typical Rock-type: bleh HP (last topic had it averaged at around 70), high Atk/Def, low Spd, SpA and SpDef. Since this thing is definitely going to have a bias towards offensive...taking this to the extreme we get:

Assuming 322 HP (4 EVs), 126 Def (0 EVs) and 236 SpDef (0 EVs)...

Some tibits (calcs without Leftovers on this thing)
- With 73 physical tankiness, it takes physical hits about as well as Gengar, who sits at 74. Except with a worse typing. Metagross Bullet Punch does 272 minimum damage without boosting anything, and has a shot at OHKOing it off the bat. Life Orb guarantees an OHKO.
- Jolly Lucario's Extremespeed with no boosts at all does 50%. After a Swords Dance, there's a chance it KOs, again with other parameters at minimum. Attach Life Orb, and he OHKOs. Turn it into Bullet Punch, and he OHKOs. Make it Adamant, and it OHKOs 75% of the time.
- Completely unboosted Adamant Tyranitar Crunch or Pursuit-on-switch does ~300 damage on average, and even has a small chance to OHKO.

As you can see, it will only take one hit from anything physical, maximum, and if it takes a light hit anywhere it becomes increasingly more suspectible to being revenge killed. Special attacks are different. It takes some beatings, enough to come in once, twice, maybe three times per match on common things, but that's about it. A demonstration:

- 300 SpA Heatran (16 SpA EVs) does around 60 damage on average with Lava Plume, which is a 4HKO the majority of the time, sometimes 5HKO. Heat up that Heatran a bit and he 4HKOs easily. Earth Power, however, always 2HKOs, and max SpA Heatran can even OHKO with it sometimes. It needs around 350 SpAtk to do the trick in Sandstorm conditions.
- Timid Gengar Shadow Ball is a 3HKO. 4HKO in Sandstorm. Focus Blast will nearly always KO in Sandstorm, and always will outside of it.
- 270 SpA STAB Surf does 236 damage min, around 254 average, 278 max. Putting Sandstorm in the mix makes it still a rather comfortable 2HKO (~170 damage on average).

 

[Raj]

The problem with a shitloa of Sp Att is that it's moves with over 60 BP are gonna be awesome too. We have to remembe other moves as well.

 

[bumfacepik]

Alright the attack might be a bit high but all the art I have seen so far shows that it will have decent no absolutely no attack.

hp:100
atk:80
def:40
spA:115
spD:60
spe:121

bst:556
pretty fragile but thats what sweepers are all about. Can get one hit ko on most pokemon that are weak to power gem. The attack is a safty harness for n00bs who pick random moves so they won't have a total fail. Also unlike most rocks it isn't even bulky enought to take a normal hit. It will have massive chunks of health taken out by a not very effective move. However it may be able to take hits well in sandstorm.

 

[Nasty Pass]

Guys, guys, just because we're breaking the mold with this guy does not mean he should have ridiculously high base speed! Seriously, I'm seeing spreads with 140-180 base Speed and +130 Special Attack. Granted, I doubt these are the sort of spreads that are going to make it to the actual polls, but still. breaking the mold != polar opposite

 

[tennisace]

Guys, guys, just because we're breaking the mold with this guy does not mean he should have ridiculously high base speed! Seriously, I'm seeing spreads with 140-180 base Speed and +130 Special Attack. Granted, I doubt these are the sort of spreads that are going to make it to the actual polls, but still. breaking the mold != polar opposite

I don't see anything wrong with 140-180 speed. I don't see anything wrong with 110-130 SpA. I do see something wrong with both in the same spread.

 

[chronostrike]

The problem with a shitloa of Sp Att is that it's moves with over 60 BP are gonna be awesome too. We have to remembe other moves as well.

Guys, guys, just because we're breaking the mold with this guy does not mean he should have ridiculously high base speed! Seriously, I'm seeing spreads with 140-180 base Speed and +130 Special Attack. Granted, I doubt these are the sort of spreads that are going to make it to the actual polls, but still. breaking the mold != polar opposite

I appologize. My post was not clear on this point.

My spread is designed not to have special moves higher than 75 BP. I am aware of how impossibly powerful it is with standard attacks (it's only 15 Base SpA from Deoxys-A). This spread would force us to use much weaker BP moves to stay OU. I intended this.

 

[omgthatkid]

I'll have to revise and update my spread:
85/50/65/115/90/140
HP: 85 is a rather decent number, allowing it to come in on a number of attacks, survive a few Seismic Tosses/Night Shades, and overall provides decent but not too amazing survivability.
Atk: We don't need a physically offensive Rock Type, period. 50 is a "fairly retardified" number, meaning it's low enough to be useless, but not too low just for the purpose of unfairly allocating BST elsewhere.
Def: Relatively low, but not too much. Decent enough to survive (unlike Alakazam, to whom this CAP is being compared), but not enough to take continual assaults from various physical Pokemon (Sarfchomp?).
SpA: I wanted a relatively high number, but not too high to completely throw Technician out the window. I'm really going to vie for that ability. I want it for it's ability to power up Ancient Power.
SpD: Rather bulky, actually. Usually, in sandstorm, most Rock types get a "survivability" boost rather than one that makes their special defense stats an asset. It's average now, but it'll be amazing in sandstorm.
Spe: Ah, the meat of it all, and the major selling point of my spread. 140 allows it to tie with Electrode, merely for the company. It also guarantees outspeeding Jolteon, Crobat, Aerodactyl, and Weavile with a +Speed nature. With a +Special Attack nature, it can still outspeed Dugtrio, Sceptile, Alakazam, Azelf, Starmie, and a number of other rather fast-paced sweepers.

I didn't want any overkill with the Special Attack, and thought Speed should be the primary focus of this CAP.
I also made this set with the possibilty of Technician to boost STAB moves, or possibly a shallower that desired movepool to hinder coverage. I don't want to see this CAP turn into some sort of 135/135+amazingmovepool Pokemon. It's just not happening.

 

[X-Act]

Okay, I changed my mind. Here's my first prototype stat spread:

HP: 110
Atk: 50
Def: 40
SpA: 110
SpD: 100
Spe: 120

Physical Sweepiness: 82 (Moderately Bad)
Physical Tankiness: 75 (Bad)
Special Sweepiness: 176 (Amazing)
Special Tankiness: 153 (Very Good)

Offense/Defense Balance: 7.7 (Slight Bias to Offense)
Physical/Special Balance: -81.4 (Extreme Bias to Special)

Overall Rating: 365 (Very Good)

I bolded the ODB for a reason. Here is a Pokemon that is only slightly biased to offense, and yet had a Special Sweepiness comparable to Gengar's. This is possible by providing this Pokemon also a very good Special Tankiness.

This stat spread is basically a Special Rhyperior with a great Speed stat. Instead of getting huge HP/Def and huge Atk, you get huge HP/SpD and huge SpA... and also huge Speed.

It is definitely not a glass cannon, as it can wall Special attacks pretty effectively even without Sandstorm. With Sandstorm, it basically ends up with Blissey-like Special Defense.

So how can you beat a Pokemon with Gengar-like Special Sweepiness and Blissey-like Special Tankiness? By attacking it physically, that's how. Its 40 base Defense is admittedly coupled by 110 base HP, but this Pokemon has nasty Fighting and Ground weaknesses, which are invariably physical moves, as well as a Water weakness (physical Water moves are also used), a Steel weakness (Meteor Mash and, worse, Bullet Punch) and a Grass weakness (though admittedly physical Grass moves are not seen much).

Oh, and if anyone cares, its BST is 530.

 

[omgthatkid]

>_>
Mixed most likely won't win, X-Act.
Well, it may.
Weirder things have happened.
But I definitely agree with your thinking.
I don't want this Pokemon to suffer from Attack Deoxys frailty or the bane in its amazing sweeping stats.
So I tried to make my spread relatively bulky during a sandstorm, and above-average sweeping defenses without sandstorm.

 

[Helios]

Guys, guys, just because we're breaking the mold with this guy does not mean he should have ridiculously high base speed! Seriously, I'm seeing spreads with 140-180 base Speed and +130 Special Attack. Granted, I doubt these are the sort of spreads that are going to make it to the actual polls, but still. breaking the mold != polar opposite

I already said that :(

 

[Nasty Pass]

And I said it again, since it seemed like it needed to be. :|

 

[darkie]

This is my spread:
HP: 90
Atk: 55
Def: 55
SpA: 120
SpD: 85
Spe: 125

Physical Sweepiness: 89 (Below Average)
Physical Tankiness: 82 (Moderately Bad)
Special Sweepiness: 196 (Amazing)
Special Tankiness: 116 (Above Average)

Offense/Defense Balance: 29.0 (Bias to Offense)
Physical/Special Balance: -62.1 (Extreme Bias to Special)

Overall Rating: 379 (Very Good)

When I first thought of a Rock-type that doesn't act like a Rock type, immediately, I thought of a fast special sweeper.

I thought of this as kind of a mix of Weavile and Rhyperior, only swapped to be Special.

I'll edit more explanation in later. I'm very hungry atm.

 

[tennisace]

This is my spread:
HP: 90
Atk: 55
Def: 55
SpA: 120
SpD: 85
Spe: 125

Physical Sweepiness: 89 (Below Average)
Physical Tankiness: 82 (Moderately Bad)
Special Sweepiness: 196 (Amazing)
Special Tankiness: 116 (Above Average)

Offense/Defense Balance: 29.0 (Bias to Offense)
Physical/Special Balance: -62.1 (Extreme Bias to Special)

Overall Rating: 379 (Very Good)

When I first thought of a Rock-type that doesn't act like a Rock type, immediately, I thought of a fast special sweeper.

I thought of this as kind of a mix of Weavile and Rhyperior, only swapped to be Special.

I'll edit more explanation in later. I'm very hungry atm.

I quite like this spread, though it could be faster and weaker. Also, food is my excuse!

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

X-Act, I like your idea in stat spreads. I mad a similar spread a page back with 15 less HP, 5 addition SpD, and 20 more in Defense. It theoretically has the same bulkiness as your, though it probably can take physical hits a tad better *shrug*. If I had to vote on a spread, I'll go with yours.

 

[zxn666]

Alright, here's my base stat spread for this "Rockmon"
85HP
50ATK
80DEF
120SPA
90SPD
110SPE

Physical sweep: lol
Special sweep: 190 (Excellent)
Physical defense: 110 (above average)
Special defense: 121 (above average)
Offense/Defense: 24.7 bias offense
Physical/special: -52.4 extreme special
Overall: 423 (excellent)

This spread shows a significant special bias, and a high speed. It also has some bulkiness to it, which actually goes against the Rock creed. All rock types have massive defenses, but pitiful HP stats. This guy, with this spread, has more balanced defenses and a solid HP stat, which is not rock style. This allows it to take attacks from both sides of the spectrum, giving it at most times at least one switch in against something normal effective (maybe even a non-STAB super effective hit).
120 SPA gives it 370ish max SPA, and 110 SPE gives it 350 max speed. Both are high, but none are truly game breaking. Assuming this rock gets explosion, it will not be able to easily OHKO Blissey with it either, since 50 ATK is just lolz.

It has a base stat total of 535, which is highly reasonable.

 

[DougJustDoug]

X-Act, Darkie, and Deck Knight have spreads that have caught my eye. None of them have gone overboard in any particular area. Of the three, I think I like DK's the best. Some of these spreads have some really freakish numbers in them. Although they may be justified, I'm always concerned about giving CAP pokemon outlandish stats. Syclant was a bit of an eye-opener in that regard.

 

[Coronis]

Ok heres my spread
HP:100
Atk:55
Def:55
SpA:115
SpD:95
Spe:130
BST:550

Physical Sweepiness: 89(below average)
Physical Tankiness: 90(below average)
Special Sweepiness: 192(amazing)
Special Tankiness: 139(good)

Offense/Defense Balance: 17.8(moderate bias to offense)
Physical/Special Balance: -66.2(extreme bias to special)

Overall Rating: 445(excellent)

Very fast hard hitting special sweeper who can stand a special hit.

 

[Thydoom]

If anyone cares, I edited my base Stat Submission. it's in the middle Of page 3.

Edit:Also, Why is everyone Trying to make him Faster then Dugtrio? If We Make him Really good at Setting up And Sweeping, How Will we Take him Down? Making him Faster then Everything,With awesome Special Atk Would make him really, Really, Broken, Akin to Garchomp.Make Him Slower then SOMETHING,And he Won't exactly destroy half the teams he Faces. Either that or make him Really Fast, But With Low enough Special Atk So that he's easily walled

 

[Flash_gearz]

HP:85
Atk:55
Def:95
SAtk:115
SDef:95
Speed:105


Really mine seems so different because or a single thing. Low Speed. There is really nothing that with a higher base speed that poses a huge threat. Out speeding Deoxys is obscenly stupid. This thing isn't going to be able to take on Dugtrio no matter what. Starmie kills it, while it really does nothing to it. Only Infernape is the only reason to have higher speed, but then that would involve making it 109+. And that really wouldn't do much.


I'll change it more when I come back. Hopefully with a more meaty SAtk. because a 115 base attack, it's not going to hit quite hard enough for my taste

 

[ANinyMouse]

HP: 95
Atk: 60
Def: 41
SpA: 165
SpD: 75
Spe: 124
BST 560

PSweep: 96=0
This thing isn't hurting anybody but Blissy with an Atk like that. The only reason its rating is so high is because of the speed

PTank: 70=-3
Softer than Syclant. Attack stat of 360 guarantees 2HKO with bullet punch or mach punch. 240 for STAB. LO Gross or Breloom is an OHKO.

STank: 111=1
It can take a hit. That will allow it to come in, but it's not going to like coming in a third or forth time. Sandstorm increases its durability.

SSweep: 284=11
This is where you are thinking I've got to be out of my mind. This stat spread is designed to accomodate Power Gem and similar moves. We couuld make a new attack, but I really want to use moves with 75 BP and lower in competative play. This high SpA allows Ominous Wind (useless w/out technician or serene grace), Power Gem (useless without adaptability), and Aroura Beam (just plain useless) to be viable on the same pokemon. I don't want to suggest that we must use these moves in particular, but they are an example of what this spread can do. Note that 80 BP attacks and up will make this pokemon too powerful and should not be used (Hyper Beam is still not worth it).

In this regard, you and I are in complete agreement.

What I feel X-Act and MOST OTHER spreads in this thread so far have done is create something fast with a moderately high SpA stat, which, as you've shown in your calculations, is heading down a murky path! If we make a Pokemon that poses NO SERIOUS OFFENSIVE THREAT, what is the allure to using it at all?

This has been toted as a "special sweeper" from the very beginning. Unless we intend on giving this thing "Adaptability," its STAB will be so laughably weak that we might as well give it Earth Power, Ice Beam, and Flamethrower and call it a day; it will have no chance to do any serious damage with Power Gem. What's the point of being a Rock-type if its STAB isn't powerful enough to do 75%+ to Togekiss with Specs, for instance?

I'm in total agreement with the low-BP attacks proposition, as well.

 

[darkie]

Uhh.. Weavile does just fine with low BP attacks even with its 120 Attack.

 

[tennisace]

HP: 95
Atk: 60
Def: 41
SpA: 165
SpD: 75
Spe: 124
BST 560

PSweep: 96=0
This thing isn't hurting anybody but Blissy with an Atk like that. The only reason its rating is so high is because of the speed

PTank: 70=-3
Softer than Syclant. Attack stat of 360 guarantees 2HKO with bullet punch or mach punch. 240 for STAB. LO Gross or Breloom is an OHKO.

STank: 111=1
It can take a hit. That will allow it to come in, but it's not going to like coming in a third or forth time. Sandstorm increases its durability.

SSweep: 284=11
This is where you are thinking I've got to be out of my mind. This stat spread is designed to accomodate Power Gem and similar moves. We couuld make a new attack, but I really want to use moves with 75 BP and lower in competative play. This high SpA allows Ominous Wind (useless w/out technician or serene grace), Power Gem (useless without adaptability), and Aroura Beam (just plain useless) to be viable on the same pokemon. I don't want to suggest that we must use these moves in particular, but they are an example of what this spread can do. Note that 80 BP attacks and up will make this pokemon too powerful and should not be used (Hyper Beam is still not worth it).

Some examples of what this can do (I'm going to make some movepool assumptions just so I can have concrete examples):
-vs. Bronzong: not even 3HKO. Power Gem is laughable. Ominous wind can't break 33%. Ember does more damage, but I wouldn't waste a moveslot just to have a chance to 3HKO Bronzong. Other pokemon are better for that.
-vs. Togekiss: Power gem has a chance to OHKO with LO. No item even has a chance to OHKO with SR support. Choice Anciet Power only has a chance to OHKO a healthy Kiss, but I think it's a really bad idea to put Ancient Power on a choice set.
-vs. Revenankh: laughs at rock attacks. Spec Ominous Wind 2HKOs but is a terrible combination of move and item. LO Ominous Wind has a chance to 2HKO, and not a very good one at that.
-vs. Pyroak: Power Gem 2HKO without item. Specs might OHKO
-vs. Fidgit: Aurora Beam could barely OHKO with Specs. Anything else just isn't a threat.
-vs. Blissey: 5HKO. Nothing to see here.
-vs. Cresselia: possible 2HKO in the best of circustances. Again Specs Wind assured 2HKO.

Speed: Eats Syclant alive. 124 allows for several pokemon to outrun it, especially Weavile, who can't OHKO with ice shard but can with ice punch.

To summarize: Pyroak and Togekiss are mauled. Not having ominous wind eliminates the danger to most of these pokemon. Priority moves are a death sentence.

EDIT: forgot to comment on speed.

EDIT2: clarified my intentions.

So you wanna give something Rampardos's attack and Weavile's speed, and justify it by saying its only going to have low power moves? No.

In this regard, you and I are in complete agreement.

What I feel X-Act and MOST OTHER spreads in this thread so far have done is create something fast with a moderately high SpA stat, which, as you've shown in your calculations, is heading down a murky path! If we make a Pokemon that poses NO SERIOUS OFFENSIVE THREAT, what is the allure to using it at all?

This has been toted as a "special sweeper" from the very beginning. Unless we intend on giving this thing "Adaptability," its STAB will be so laughably weak that we might as well give it Earth Power, Ice Beam, and Flamethrower and call it a day; it will have no chance to do any serious damage with Power Gem. What's the point of being a Rock-type if its STAB isn't powerful enough to do 75%+ to Togekiss with Specs, for instance?

I'm in total agreement with the low-BP attacks proposition, as well.

Once again, please dont bring up attacks or abilities in here. Any ability or move dependent spread will not be picked.